Earnings Call Transcript - AEG Q2 2025

Operator, Operator

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Aegon's First Half 2025 Results Conference Call. Please note that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker, Yves Cormier, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Yves Cormier, Head of Investor Relations

Thanks, operator, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us for this conference call on Aegon's first half year 2025 results. I'm Yves Cormier, Head of Investor Relations, and joining me today to take you through our progress are Aegon CEO, Lard Friese; and CFO, Duncan Russell. Before we start, we would like to ask you to review our disclaimer on forward-looking statements, which you can find at the end of the presentation. And with that, I would like to give the floor to Lard.

E. Lard Friese, CEO

Thank you, Yves, and good morning, everyone. I want to start today's presentation by informing you about the next steps in Aegon's transformation and running through our commercial developments before Duncan will address our results in more detail. So let me begin on Slide #2 with the key messages. Our strategy is to grow and transform our businesses, and we made good progress in doing so during the first half of 2025. We are on track to deliver on our strategy and on all our targets. Our operating result was EUR 845 million, up 19% compared with last year. This increase was mainly driven by profitable business growth and less unfavorable claims experience in the U.S., but also in the U.K. and in our International segment. Operating capital generation before holding and funding expenses amounted to EUR 576 million, decreasing by 2% over the same period. New business strain increased, especially in our U.S. strategic assets as we grew the business. Commercial momentum remains strong across our key markets leading to higher new life sales and more net deposits. The capital position of our operating units remains strong and above their respective operating levels. Furthermore, in the U.S., we have extended the hedging of the variable annuity portfolio to cover part of the base fee exposure, which reduces our exposure to downward equity markets further. Cash capital holding totals over EUR 2 billion following the receipt of planned remittances from all our units and the completion of a EUR 150 million share buyback in the first half of the year. On the back of the solid performance, we have increased the interim dividend by EUR 0.03 compared with last year to EUR 0.19 per common share. Furthermore, today, we announced a EUR 200 million increase to the current share buyback program, which began in July. In total, we will buy back EUR 400 million of shares during the second half of 2025. This once again demonstrates our ongoing commitment to return excess capital to shareholders unless we can invest it in value-creating opportunities, and it is consistent with our plan to reduce our cash capital at holding to around EUR 1 billion by the end of 2026. Today, we are also announcing a review of the potential relocation of our head office to the U.S. I will now move to Slide #3 to provide you with some background on this review. This is an important step in the transformation of our company. In recent years, Aegon's business in the United States, which accounts for approximately 70% of Aegon's operations, has become Aegon's primary market and central to the company's strategy and long-term growth. The relocation of Aegon's legal domicile and head office to the United States is a logical step, and it is expected to simplify Aegon's corporate structure as it would align its legal domicile, tax residency, accounting standard, and regulatory framework with the geography where it conducts the majority of its business. Moreover, bringing the head office closer to our largest market allows much closer cooperation between the holding and its main business unit, which is an important enabler to grow successfully in the long term. As part of the review, we will evaluate the additional advantages that would come with being a U.S.-based company. This includes the impact on all of Aegon's stakeholders and making our listing on the New York Stock Exchange our primary listing alongside our Euronext listing. Another key component of this review is the implementation of U.S. GAAP reporting, which is a complex process and would likely take 2 to 3 years to complete. Preparations for the implementation have begun. We aim to share the outcome of this review at our Capital Markets Day on December 10 of this year. I will now move on to Slide #4 to discuss our recent commercial performance, starting with the Americas. We continued to deliver on Transamerica's transformation, growing our strategic assets during the reporting period. World Financial Group recorded a 14% increase in its number of licensed agents to over 90,000, thanks to successful recruiting efforts and improved retention. The productivity of the agents selling life insurance products increased mainly from higher average premiums per policy. This offset a slight reduction in the number of multi-ticket agents, while it led to an increase in Transamerica's market share in WFG U.S. life sales. This higher agent productivity at WFG was one of the key drivers of the 13% increase in new life sales in our Individual Life business. We also recorded strong growth of new life sales in the brokerage channel, driven by the successful launch of a fully digital experience of a whole life final expense product last autumn. Furthermore, we continue to see steady growth in the RILA product, where net deposits nearly doubled compared with last year. In the savings and investments segment, we recorded solid net deposits in our retirement plan business over the reporting period. This was driven by midsized plans, partly supported by the onboarding of a large pooled plan. Written sales continue to be strong, which we see as a positive indicator for future growth of our book. Finally, we realized further growth in the general accounts stable value product and in IRAs as we work to increase profitability and diversify revenue streams in the retirement plan business. Let's move on to Slide #5 for an update on the other units. At Aegon U.K., we continue to make progress on the strategy we presented at the Teach-In in June of last year. Deposits in the Workplace platform can be lumpy. And in this period, we benefited from the onboarding of a larger scheme. The Adviser platform business continued to be adversely impacted by ongoing consolidation and vertical integration in non-target Adviser segments. In the International segment, our joint ventures in Brazil, China as well as Spain and Portugal all generated higher new life sales. This was partially offset by lower sales at TLB as a result of changes in the competitive landscape in Singapore. Aegon's Asset Management reported solid third-party net deposits during the reporting period. Net deposits in the Global Platforms business were mostly attributed to alternative fixed income products. Strategic partnerships net deposits were driven by our Chinese joint venture, which benefited from a collaboration with the consumer finance platform. I will now hand over to Duncan to discuss our financial performance in more detail.

Duncan Russell, CFO

Thank you, Lard. Let me start with an overview on Slide 7. In the first half of 2025, the operating results increased by 19% year-on-year, mostly reflecting an improvement at Transamerica. Operating capital generation before holding, funding, and operating expenses decreased by 2% over the same period, mainly driven by higher new business strain. Free cash flow in the first half of 2025 amounted to EUR 442 million, and this is a significant increase compared to the EUR 373 million generated last year. Cash capital at holding remains very healthy, standing at EUR 2 billion for the end of June, allowing us to announce an increase of our ongoing share buyback program. On a per share basis, valuation equity, which consists of the sum of shareholders' equity and the CSM balance after tax decreased by 5% in the period, mostly from the impact of unfavorable exchange rate movements on the group CSM, which were partly offset by a strong net result. Exchange rate movements were also the driver for the reduction of gross financial leverage. Lastly, the group solvency ratio decreased by 5 percentage points compared with year-end 2024 to 183%, mainly from the new share buyback program and the reservation of the 2025 interim dividend. Using Slide 8, I will address the development of our IFRS net results in the first half of 2025. The operating results amounted to EUR 845 million, coming in at the top end of the EUR 750 million to EUR 850 million run rate range we had indicated with the full-year 2024 results. In the U.S., the operating results improved materially year-on-year to EUR 685 million within our guided range of EUR 650 million to EUR 750 million. The result benefited from growth in our strategic assets, notably the Protection Solutions business, with some offset in distribution where the operating margin fell in the first half of 2025 as previously flagged as we invested further in the business. We had an improved result in financial assets because of less unfavorable experience variances from onerous contracts. Claims experience was largely offset by reserve releases. Unfavorable reserve changes due to premium variances that we saw in the U.S. in the second half of 2024 continued into the first half of 2025 as we previously flagged, but to a materially lesser degree. The operating results of the U.K. increased, benefiting from business growth and favorable markets. In the International segment, the operating results increased mainly from a higher CSM release in TLB and Spain and Portugal. Aegon Asset Management's operating results as well as out of the holding were broadly stable compared with the same period of last year. Moving on. Non-operating items were favorable in the period, driven by hedging results recorded in fair value items. Other charges amounted to EUR 207 million, mostly because of the assumption updates in the U.S. and at TLB to address the experience we've recently seen. Finally, we booked a EUR 50 million contribution from our stake in ASR. Looking forward to the second half of the year, we are increasing our guided operating results range for the U.S. by $50 million to EUR 700 million to EUR 800 million, but we're keeping the group guidance of EUR 750 million to EUR 850 million, reflecting the current exchange rates. I'm now moving on to Slide 9. Based on the strong net result and a positive contribution from the assumption updates to OCI, shareholders' equity increased slightly over the period. The CSM balance decreased over the period, mostly because of unfavorable currency movements. In U.S. dollars, the CSM of our strategic assets in the U.S. increased thanks to profitable new business, while the CSM of our financial assets decreased due to the runoff of the book, the impact of claims experience, as well as the impact of strengthening policyholder behavior assumptions. Outside the U.S., the changes to the total CSM balance were limited, with the U.K. CSM decreasing modestly on a local currency basis and the International segment CSM increasing modestly from assumption updates. Overall, valuation equity per share decreased by 5 percentage points over the first half of 2025 to EUR 8.47 per share, mostly due to the exchange rate development. Slide 10. Operating capital generation or OCG decreased by 2% compared to the first half of 2024. OCG from the U.S. decreased by 4%, or 3% in U.S. dollars. OCG from the strategic assets decreased due to our investments in business growth, which drove higher new business strain. OCG from financial assets increased mostly from higher fees as variable annuity account balances increased on the back of favorable markets. Furthermore, claims experience in the period was less favorable than in the same period last year and included $86 million of unfavorable mortality, largely related to the Universal Life book. Looking through the unfavorable claims experience in the period, we continue to observe a quarterly OCG run rate for the Americas of around $200 million to $240 million. The OCG benefited from favorable markets as well as favorable non-recurring variances. The International segment reported lower OCG, with improved underwriting experience in TLB being offset by lower OCG from China. Aegon Asset Management's OCG was stable compared to the same period of last year. Looking ahead, we continue to expect OCG before holding, funding, and operating expenses of around EUR 1.2 billion in 2025. I'm now turning to Slide 11. The capital positions of our business units remain robust and above their respective operating levels. The U.S. RBC ratio decreased by 23 percentage points compared with year-end 2024 to 420%. Market movements had a 15 percentage points negative impact on this ratio. Of this, 5 percentage points was due to hedging, rebalancing, and cross effects as a consequence of elevated market volatility in April, which we flagged with the first quarter trading update. The remaining unfavorable impact was largely driven by valuation moves in our alternative asset portfolio and lower interest rates. Onetime items had a 9 percentage points unfavorable impact due to restructuring costs, the annual actuarial assumption update, and several smaller items. For the remainder, operating capital generation in the period was offset by remittances to the group. Finally, in mid-August, we decided to expand the dynamic hedge program of our variable annuities to cover the equity market exposure of the fees of 25% of the base contracts. This represents an additional lever available to us to manage our risk profile going forward, reduces our economic equity market exposure on the VA block, and thus capital requirement, and first solidifies the expected runoff profile, albeit with a small negative impact on run rate OCG. In the U.K., the solvency ratio of Scottish Equitable decreased by 1 percentage point to 185% as operating capital generation in the period was offset by remittances and investments in the business. Slide 12. Cash capital at holding remains extremely healthy, standing at just over EUR 2 billion. Free cash flow amounted to EUR 442 million in the period and included remittances from all our units, as well as capital returns from our stake in ASR. We returned EUR 110 million of capital to shareholders through share buybacks. In addition, we purchased EUR 14 million worth of shares, which will be used for share-based compensation plans. Today, we have announced a EUR 200 million increase for the currently ongoing share buyback program, bringing it to a total of holding around EUR 1 billion by the end of 2026.

E. Lard Friese, CEO

Let me conclude our presentation with the final slide on Page 13. Taking into account our performance in the first half of 2025 and the outlook for our businesses, we are on track to achieve all of our financial targets for 2025. We look forward to meeting you at the Capital Markets Day on December 10 in London. At the event, we will share the conclusion of the review regarding a potential relocation of Aegon's head office to the United States. And with that, I would now like to open the call for questions. Please limit yourself to 2 questions per person.

Operator, Operator

And your first question today comes from David Barma at Bank of America.

David Barma, Analyst

To start with, can you talk about what drove the decision to cover 25% of the variable annuity-based fee, please? Did you see that as the optimal balance between the cost of protection? Or is it a first step and you'd like to do more over time? And I'll ask my second question straight away because it's linked to that. That combined with the measures taken on the Universal Life block will weigh on OCG going forward, but you've reiterated the guidance. We've been in a similar situation in the past two years with mortality first and then the drag in China both being offset by other measures. So as I'm trying to understand how reliant OCG is on the current level of equities and to what extent stronger-than-expected business growth is making you comfortable with the OCG level that you're guiding for? If you can give a bit of color on that, please?

E. Lard Friese, CEO

Thanks, David. Yes, we recently executed on the VA-based fee hedging, which is an additional tool we've added to manage and stabilize the capital generation and earnings profile of our legacy variable annuity book, currently in runoff. We undertook this for several reasons, including stabilizing capital and taking advantage of favorable equity market levels. It's part of our normal management practices regarding financial assets. The 25% adjustment is a precaution on our part; we wanted to implement it and monitor its effectiveness before making any changes in the future. We have to balance and manage the impact on our capital position, which we continue to track. Overall, it has reduced our economic equity exposure on that VA book, which is positive. Regarding OCG, it's a relatively straightforward quarter for us, and we've reiterated our guidance. When I look at our reported OCG for the half-year, along with our quarterly run rate, we are still aligning with our guidance of around EUR 1.2 billion for the year. As for our equity sensitivity, we are not particularly sensitive to equity fluctuations; our balance sheet reflects this, with sensitivities not being notably large. Our OCG is sensitive by plus or minus 10% to about USD 40 million, so we are not particularly sensitive to equity impacts, to be honest.

Operator, Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Michael Huttner from Berenberg.

Michael Huttner, Analyst

I wanted to mention that it seems like a farewell. The choice to begin U.S. GAAP indicates a definitive decision. My first question is regarding U.S. GAAP; could you provide an estimate of where it will stand in relation to our current operating profit or OCG? I have a couple more questions as well. Regarding the pooled plan, how large is it? I believe it’s around EUR 2 billion, but I need clarification. Additionally, could you provide the figures for the new business strain? Specifically, concerning the economic exposure, how significantly does the VA benefit decrease the required capital?

E. Lard Friese, CEO

Okay. Michael, that's a number of questions. Let me confirm, it's EUR 1.9 billion, the pooled plan that you're referring to as part of the retirement growth of net deposits in this half year. For the remainder, I hand over to you, Duncan.

Duncan Russell, CFO

Yes. So Michael, on U.S. GAAP, no, it's too early to tell. I don't want to give any sort of guidance on that, that would be misleading at this stage, to be honest. Then on the capital requirement from the VA, it's a small capital benefit. We are reducing the equity exposure, which will reduce the required capital by a small amount in the third quarter.

Michael Huttner, Analyst

And the new business strain?

E. Lard Friese, CEO

I'm not entirely sure what your question was on new business strain. But if I look in the quarter, our new business strain was more or less as we anticipated, it was roughly EUR 6 million higher than our guided run rate in aggregate.

Operator, Operator

And the next question comes from the line of Farooq Hanif from JPMorgan.

Farooq Hanif, Analyst

I would like to explore your thoughts on the redomiciliation since you have mentioned that it has been considered in the past, especially when you relocated your regulatory domicile to Bermuda. I understand why it makes sense for most of your business, which is primarily in the U.S. However, I would like to know what has changed, considering you have likely reviewed this previously. Some factors that come to mind include regulators and whether it would facilitate your plans in the U.S., such as being able to apply U.S. GAAP and being situated there. Could you provide more insights on this topic, even if you're still evaluating it? Additionally, I'd like to ask how reliable the EUR 845 million operating profit is. You briefly touched on it, but how clean do you believe it is?

E. Lard Friese, CEO

Yes, Farooq, I will address your first question and explain the rationale behind it. However, let's begin by clarifying Duncan's questions regarding the financials.

Duncan Russell, CFO

Yes, Farooq, it's looking good. We are satisfied with the first half IFRS operating profit, which was EUR 845 million. While there were some negative variances, if we account for those, around EUR 92 million for the group, we arrive at an adjusted figure of approximately EUR 937 million, which is strong. However, we do have a recurring VA interest accretion that we need to deduct, estimated at EUR 30 million to EUR 35 million. This brings the underlying figure to about EUR 900 million for the first half. Since then, the foreign exchange rates have weakened, so we're now looking at a figure around EUR 850 million, which falls within our guided range. Overall, it’s been a solid quarter and a strong half year, Farooq.

E. Lard Friese, CEO

So, Farooq, regarding your question about the potential move to the U.S., there are several points to consider. The Aegon transformation is significant, and we have taken numerous steps in recent years to reach our current position. We are now prepared for the next phase of this transformation. When we announced the combination of our Dutch business with ASR and closed that deal in early July 2023, it was a crucial moment. At that time, we had just implemented IFRS 17 and were disclosing it for the first time. Importantly, there was no U.S. GAAP available at that point. Additionally, we were finalizing our transaction with ASR, which required careful operational integration. We also had to relocate our legal seat to Bermuda since DNB could no longer be our group regulator, and afterwards, the BMA became our regulator. It’s worth noting that we had a Capital Markets Day in London a couple of weeks before closing the ASR transaction, during which Transamerica launched its strategy and plan. Now, two years later, we can see the progress that has been made since the execution began. The U.S. business now represents 70% of our overall group, indicating that we are ready for this new phase of our transformation. It makes sense that as the U.S. accounts for such a large portion of our business, moving our holding company to this significant market is a logical step. We are fully committed to this direction. At this stage, we are prepared to proceed and have done considerable work to evaluate all implications, notably for our employees and works councils. We will complete our review before the Capital Markets Day and share the findings with you.

Farooq Hanif, Analyst

I'm sorry to interrupt, but has there been any regulatory pressure to do this?

E. Lard Friese, CEO

No.

Operator, Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Iain Pearce from Exane BNP Paribas.

Iain Pearce, Analyst

The discussion focuses on the redomiciliation process. Could you elaborate on what you anticipate to be the primary challenges associated with this move? You've mentioned U.S. GAAP, but what other main challenges do you foresee? Additionally, have you discussed this move with your major shareholder? It seems like the articles of association could present some issues for them regarding redomiciliation. Furthermore, I'd like to know about the asset allocation opportunities that might arise from redomiciling to a U.S. regulated entity. Do you consider this a significant advantage, and is there a strategy to increase the risk level of the asset portfolio in the U.S. while boosting allocations in private assets as part of the redomiciliation process?

E. Lard Friese, CEO

Thank you very much, Iain. I'll take the first couple of questions. On your last question, I'll hand it over to Duncan. Looking at the key challenges, we expect this move to head office processes in the U.S. We need to build down head office processes here, and we need to ensure that we do that well. U.S. GAAP is a key gating item. We started with it, but the project has started and implementing a new accounting standard is going to take some time. That is a key thing to make sure we do right. In the meantime, we need to ensure that this transition process is appropriately change-managed, and those, I would say, are the key things to mention here. When it comes to the asset allocation opportunity potentially, Duncan?

Duncan Russell, CFO

Yes. I think no impact on the redomiciliation on our allocation choices or opportunities. We manage our entities on a local capital basis. So we're already operating under the U.S. statutory regime for Transamerica, and we have asset allocation appropriate to our liabilities in that market, and I see no impact from the redomiciliation.

Operator, Operator

And your next question comes from the line of Nasib Ahmed, UBS.

Nasib Ahmed, Analyst

So first one on just M&A. You've still got the financial assets. There's been a big variable annuity deal where I think the counterparty managed to get over the line on the counterparty risk, and that was one of the blockers for you guys, I think. So any thoughts on kind of third-party actions on the EUR 3.3 billion locked in? And then on the flip side anything that you would potentially buy? How does the U.S. redomiciliation help with M&A on the acquisition side? Second one is on OCG versus IFRS in the U.S. So Duncan, you raised the guide on the IFRS by EUR 50 million, but I think the OCG guide stays the same. What's the difference? Why haven't you raised the OCG guide in the U.S.?

E. Lard Friese, CEO

Yes. So I'll take the M&A side, and then you can do the financial asset, Duncan. On acquisitions, our strategy is linked to our growth. We want to grow like any company. If we see an opportunity that makes sense and it strengthens our business and it makes sense both for financial criteria and non-financial criteria, then we will certainly look at it. We will be disciplined. We're not going to do any M&A unless we believe that we can integrate it to create value for our stockholders. Now the U.S. is a large market; it is our largest market. Being physically located there with your head office clearly positions you more beneficially for that. However, our M&A approach has not changed from what we mentioned before. Duncan?

Duncan Russell, CFO

Two separate questions. On the financial assets, we continue to look at our unilateral, bilateral, and third-party options on those books of businesses. We've been doing that for years. Should a transaction present itself, which we find attractive for our shareholders, if it makes sense, we'll proceed. If not, we won't, and we'll focus on unilateral or bilateral options. So no real change there. We just continue to look at all our options as we have for the last couple of years. On the guidance, well, two things. Partly, the guidance reflects what we see in our actuals on a clean basis in the half year. So we saw that the U.S. operating profit performed well in the first half under IFRS, and that reflects in the raised guidance, which means we expect that run rate to continue, and on OCG, we performed more in line with our previous guidance. Hence, that’s driven the unchanged outlook there. Bear in mind that there are quite material differences in the way growth is treated under the two regimes. In the U.S. regulatory regime, as you grow into a new business strain, it presses in the near term. Under IFRS, you create CSM, which comes through in earnings relatively quickly. So that is also an explanation.

Operator, Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Farquhar Murray from Autonomous.

Farquhar Murray, Analyst

A couple of questions from my side, just mainly on the domiciling discussion. Obviously, it's been debated for a few years and does not seem a bit of a foregone conclusion, but I just wondered if you have a sense, therefore, on the actual project costs of the U.S. GAAP implementation. Also, obviously, getting closer to the U.S. business makes a lot of sense, but I just wondered where that leaves your approach on the rest of the global footprint.

E. Lard Friese, CEO

Yes. So first of all, the costs are going to be part of the review, and we'll update you on the outcome at the Capital Markets Day. When it comes to the total footprint, as you know, we've set ourselves a perimeter in 2020 when I joined the company. We're now in that perimeter, and we have a strategy to improve and create advantageous business in that perimeter. That is unchanged.

Operator, Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Benoit Petrarque from Kepler Cheuvreux.

Benoit Petrarque, Analyst

So yes, the first one is actually on your ASR stake. What are your initial thoughts about your stake also going forward, looking at the potential relocation in the U.S.? It sounds like it becomes less core than before. And then maybe on the redomiciliation, do you plan to initiate deleveraging actions and yielding holding levels? So any plans to maybe refocus more on deleveraging next year?

Duncan Russell, CFO

Yes, nothing changes on either of those fronts. Today, we announced a review. We'll conclude on that review with the Capital Markets Day. If we decide to proceed, it will take 2 to 3 years. The leverage, there is no need to change our leverage given our footprint is what it is today. Regarding ASR, we've been consistent that we're a long-term patient holder. There are two potential reasons we would dispose of that, either we have an alternative lease for that or we feel that the price reflects the intrinsic value. No change on either based on the announcement today.

Operator, Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Jason Kalamboussis from ING. Jason, it looks like we've lost your connection. Can you hear us?

E. Lard Friese, CEO

My suggestion, operator, is you move to the next question, and then if Jason comes back, we'll take his question, obviously.

Operator, Operator

I will now go to the next question. And your next question is a follow-up from Michael Huttner from Berenberg.

Michael Huttner, Analyst

On U.S. mortality Slide 17, can you talk a little bit about the unfavorable claims experience. I remember a figure, I think it was EUR 66 million in Q1. So normally, you would have EUR 33 million because of normal seasonality, and there was EUR 33 million on top. I just want to get a feel for which way it's going versus your assumptions? And the second question is, I mean, sorry, Lard, I didn't hear the answer on pooled. I did the numbers. So on the savings and investment Q2 2025, you had a EUR 2 billion net inflow. It was 0 in Q2 2024, and you mentioned the pooled plan. I'm really sorry, I didn't hear the number on that.

Duncan Russell, CFO

EUR 1.9 billion, the pooled plan you guessed was EUR 2 billion. You're pretty close. For your other question, I will hand it over.

E. Lard Friese, CEO

Michael, we had the overall mortality in the U.S. in the second quarter, which was slightly positive. I would say more or less in line with our best estimate expectation slightly positive. Since the mortality update we did last year, we had positive 3Q, 4Q, negative 1Q, positive 2Q this year, and we remain comfortable with our overall mortality assumptions.

Operator, Operator

We have no further questions at this time. I would now like to hand the call back over to Yves Cormier for closing remarks.

E. Lard Friese, CEO

Thank you very much, Jerry. Before I hand over to Yves, we will make sure we reach out to Jason Kalamboussis for his question.

Yves Cormier, Head of Investor Relations

All right. Well, thank you, operator. This concludes today's Q&A session. Should you have any remaining questions, please get in touch with us at the Investor Relations team. On behalf of Lard and Duncan, I would like to thank you for your attention. Thanks again, and have a good day.

Operator, Operator

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.