Earnings Call Transcript - ANGI Q2 2024

Operator, Operator

Good day and welcome to the IAC, and Angi’s Second Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. After today’s presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to hand the call to Christopher Halpin, Chief Financial Officer and COO of AIC. Please go ahead.

Christopher Halpin, CFO and COO

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Christopher Halpin here, and welcome to the IAC and Angi Inc., second quarter earnings call. Joining me today is Joey Levin, CEO of IAC, and Chairman of Angi Inc. and Jeff Kipp, CEO of Angi Inc. Similar to last quarter, supplemental to our quarterly earnings releases, IAC has also published its quarterly shareholder letter, which is currently available on the Investor Relations section of IAC's website. We will not be reading the shareholder letter on this call. I will shortly turn the call over to Joey to make a few brief introductory remarks, and we'll then open it up to Q&A. Before we get to that, I'd like to remind you that during this presentation, we may discuss our outlook and future performance. These forward-looking statements typically may be preceded by words such as, we expect, we believe, we anticipate or similar statements. These forward-looking views are subject to risks and uncertainties and our actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today. Some of these risks have been set forth in IAC's and Angi Inc.'s second quarter earnings releases and our respective filings with the SEC. We'll also discuss certain non-GAAP measures, which, as a reminder, include adjusted EBITDA, which we'll refer to as EBITDA for simplicity during the call. I'll also refer you to our earnings releases, the IAC shareholder letter, our public filings with the SEC and again to the Investor Relations section of our respective websites for all comparable GAAP measures and full reconciliations for all material non-GAAP measures. With that, I will now turn it over to Joey.

Joey Levin, CEO

Thank you all for joining us this morning. Special thank you, again, as always, to the incredibly brilliant and resilient IAC team. Any of you who are on this call today, we are incredibly grateful for the work that everyone has been doing here. This is a team of fighters, grinders, builders and that's what we saw come through not just really this quarter but for the last 18 months is the team that figures out how to make things work and deliver for our customers. At DDM, we are – we’ve been incredibly focused on delivering for viewers to give them a compelling customer experience and converting for advertisers, and we have not been distracted from those focuses and now that's really working and helping to gain share. And we really have the same story at Angi—the focus on jobs done well there to make pros and homeowners happy has been the focus. Over time, that's going to show through in a business that can grow when sharing its category. Same is true for businesses that we are minority owners of; Bill Hornbuckle at MGM and Andre Haddad at Turo are totally customer obsessed, and we're incredibly grateful to be associated with those businesses right now. I see ahead, I think a great quarter this past quarter and we're feeling some good momentum looking forward. And so we'd love to talk about that with all you, and let's get your questions. Operator, first question please.

Operator, Operator

The first question comes from Ross Sandler of Barclays. Please go ahead.

Ross Sandler, Analyst

Hey guys. Just maybe starting with Dotdash Meredith, so the letter said you could grow 15% or better in 3Q. That looks great relative to what we've heard broadly from the digital advertising landscape thus far in earnings season. So what are you seeing right now in terms of macro trends that are allowing you to accelerate while others are kind of fading here? And then, the DDM licensing line picked up a little bit quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year. So how much of a contributor to that was the recent AI licensing deals? And how should we think about that going forward? Thanks a lot.

Joey Levin, CEO

Thanks, Ross. I'll take the first one and Chris could take the second one. Obviously, digital revenue is traffic and monetization, and let's do those one at a time. On the traffic side, it has been going very well for DDM. A lot of it starts with investing in content and investing in the best content. But it's also figuring out distribution. I think DDM has done a really great job in holding court within the Google and search ecosystem notwithstanding a lot of changes happening. We're also diversifying from there. Email has been great, and social media—we’ve now lapped the sort of Facebook turning our publishers event and we now see growth in social media opportunities for growth moving forward. Big platforms, Apple News, and Google has a similar concept called Google Discover, video—all these things are areas where we have started to see real upside and continuing to grow traffic. And that led to the acceleration in the second quarter and what we think is continued acceleration as we sit here in August. On the monetization side, that's both direct premium sales and programmatic. We’ve been growing inventory, but a solid base of inventory has always been there. The performance intent and the measurement of that performance intent has always been there. What's happening right now is, we're getting demand from advertisers to come in and start to more efficiently price, which is why you saw our programmatic ad rates up substantially and we think more than the market. If you look at domestic, up even more, that is a product of advertisers realizing the value of that inventory and pricing it up to the point where it continues to drive performance for them. The lifting of that programmatic pricing along with the premium, feeds into each other because less inventory available means the best stuff starts to get higher prices over time. The licensing business also did well. I’ll let Chris answer that part of the question. We are starting to see the OpenAI money in there and other licensing partners that are paying us. That grew healthily, and we still see upside in each of those things as we look forward from here.

Christopher Halpin, CFO and COO

Thanks, Joey. Ross, with respect to the large language model licensing deal we've announced, if you look at the digital licensing line, revenue grew 19% in the quarter or $4.9 million of dollar growth. If you look at the prior quarter, the existing licensing business grew about 9%. So it's fair to assume that about half of the dollar growth to get you to 19% came from our OpenAI license. That represents revenue earned since the partnership started in early May within the quarter. So, if you think about half the dollar growth and gross it up, you have insight on the fixed portion of our fee. Thanks. Thanks, Ross. Operator, next question.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Cory Carpenter of JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Cory Carpenter, Analyst

Good morning, I had two on Angi. Just you and Joey have been focused on improving the customer experience and profits at the expense of monetization for a while now. So my question is, what inning would you say we're in? What do you think you still need to do? I feel like you're in a position for revenue trends to turn. And then Chris, for you on Angi financials, could you talk about what drove the profit upside in the quarter and the outlook? Maybe expand a bit on your revenue expectations in the back half. Thank you.

Jeff Kipp, CEO

So I'll start. If I’m going to answer your baseball analogy, I think I'm going to take the bottom of the fourth where the home team is on offense. As you know, what Joey has been focused on and what the company continues to be focused on is getting more jobs done well. For reference, we define that as jobs where a homeowner who missed a job on the platform hires a pro, pays for that lead on the platform effectively, and the job gets done with a 4 or 5 rating. We are completely focused there and driving the product and customer experience to give us the long-term repeat and retention required for long-term revenue and profit growth. If you want to get into the tactical elements, there are some pieces to this. On the homeowner side, as I think everybody knows, our SEO has been on a downward path for a while losing a significant amount of ground it once had. We see that as currently stabilizing and turning. That’s a big job and a huge opportunity for us given the amount of ground we’ve seeded there to be reclaimed. We have been systematically improving our SCM and really been significantly driving the SCM contribution growth. We think we still have work to do. We're still in the middle innings there in terms of being able to reclaim ground and grow those jobs. Lastly, on the pro side, I think you've seen remarkable increases in retention year-over-year the last couple of quarters. That's also being driven by our focus on jobs done well. We think we still have some territory to gain there, which will contribute to long-term growth. We've significantly optimized our sales force, and our work is stabilizing and turning back to growth in the near term. In conclusion, we are going to put all the bricks in place. The honest truth is we will be growing revenue again. It will come when we have the experience and the product in a place that we think is great. It's not going to come immediately. But we are continuing to work on that and right now we are growing value long-term for the business and our customers and shareholders.

Christopher Halpin, CFO and COO

And thanks, Corey. With respect to Angi profitability and financial outlook, in the second quarter, the growth in profit both on a year-over-year and sequential basis reflects the greater efficiency we’ve been driving at Angi for some time. Joey started it, and Jeff is continuing it. As Jeff said, we’ve improved marketing efficiency by stripping out lower-value revenue streams and what we view was wasted paid marketing. We’ve also improved matching and monetization through technology, again, improving efficiency and that feeds into Jeff’s strategies you heard. Moreover, we've worked for some time to target higher quality professionals. That enables us to reduce our service professional acquisition spend while also improving retention and reducing bad debt, and we definitely see both manifest themselves. The investments in experience and efficiency for the business have led to our revenue declines, which you referenced, but also helped to significantly improve both revenue quality and margins. Q2 in particular, there was also some benefit from expenses that shifted from Q2 to Q3 this year; it's a little bit flattering margins there, but big picture we feel good about the margins. We feel good about the profitability and expect that to continue. Looking forward, we've said we expect revenue declines in Q3 to back down about 15%, that's higher than the second quarter but in line with the first quarter and the end of last year. It’s really due to two factors. The second quarter last year was an easy comp when we experienced the most pronounced impacts from shutting down certain demand channels producing lower quality leads. Secondly, a number of the actions taken to improve consumer experience started in the second half of last year and early this year. So we're continuing to feel the impact. As for profitability in the third quarter, we are guiding to over $30 million of adjusted EBITDA. That’s lower than our profit in the second quarter due partly to the shift of expenses I mentioned and also targeted investments we’re making in customer experience to set us up for future growth.

Joey Levin, CEO

And I would add to what Jeff and Chris said, all of which I agree with, it was very well said. Going back to your original question, Corey, Jeff said bottom of the fourth; we still have work to do here. We still have work to drive the customer experience, both on the homeowners side and the pro side, to what we think is possible in the category and what we think is a long-term winner, and we are going to do all that work over time.

Christopher Halpin, CFO and COO

Thanks, Corey. Operator, next question.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Eric Sheridan of Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Eric Sheridan, Analyst

Thanks so much for taking the question. Wanted to come back to two of the themes you talked about in the shareholder letter. First, Joey, there was a discussion in there about putting your cash to work in a smart manner going forward, as well as the theme of shrinking the discount that exists in the equity of IAC today. Wondering if you could expand upon that statement and how it sort of dovetails back to game on capital allocation more broadly. And the second part of that would be you also highlighted the stakes you have in MGM and Turo; they continued to rise in Turo’s percent ownership. Any color you can give us on the pathway to either owning more of those equities over time or the path to creating or crystallizing value around those stakes? Thanks so much.

Christopher Halpin, CFO and COO

Yeah, thanks, Eric. Those questions are certainly all closely intertwined. There are three things that shrink the discount that have always been true, but to varying degrees over time: execution in the companies, smart capital allocation, and crystallizing value. All those things are certainly a focus, and there will be a mix of all of them as we try to shrink the discount. We've lived with a discount in our past and have shrunk it before. The discount is widest when the gap relative to our last crystallization event is longest. Now to us, that doesn't reduce the option value of any crystallization events; they still exist and have value, but I understand that value may not be appreciated until some options are exercised. We've talked a lot about execution in our companies and obviously that will continue. Capital allocation and crystallizing value will be harder to discuss because we haven't done either one for a while. Our view is we are definitely looking for new opportunities in M&A. It's been the lifeblood of IAC for its entire history; it's been a great source of growth and shareholder returns and opportunity. We are looking there and, as always, we have to be disciplined and find things that we believe are screaming and disputable opportunities. We haven't found those yet, but when we do, you'll certainly know about it. On the crystallizing value side, there are many ways to do that. For instance, if Turo goes public, we'll see what that value is. There are assets that we could consider selling and optimizing the portfolio, which remain on the table and will be considered to shrink the discount over time. Execution has, for basically two years, been the lion's share of our focus. Now that we have execution in a place that we feel much better about, I think the other two are getting more attention. As it relates to MGM and Turo, we are very happy with the path that we're on in both of those businesses, which is we get to hold on to our capital while accruing more ownership in the businesses. That was evident in the last quarter, and we hope that continues, as both those businesses continue to execute as well as they have been.

Joey Levin, CEO

Just building on that, in the letter, for those who follow, we executed our warrant in Turo on a net basis and increased our ownership to 32% without expending any incremental cash. Thank you, Eric. Operator, next question.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from John Blackledge of TD Cowen. Please go ahead.

John Blackledge, Analyst

Great. Thanks. Two questions: On the macro, Joey, just with renewed fears of macro softness. Just curious if you're seeing any signals of macro softness across any of IAC’s different business segments? And then, secondly on Dotdash Meredith, could you discuss the key drivers of expected accelerating DDM digital revenue growth in 3Q? And then, on the margins, incremental margins were better in 2Q. Can you talk about that outperformance and discuss the strong 3Q DDM digital EBITDA guide, both of which I think kind of led to raising our total DDM EBITDA range for fiscal ’24. Thank you.

Joey Levin, CEO

Yeah, John. I'll let Chris do the second. I’ll do the first. In our caveat the macro by saying two things. Number one, we're so small; we do have a view, but I don't know how much it indicates the entire world. Number two, I do think our view skews towards higher maybe mid-income just the nature of our businesses and brands are skewed more in that direction. The answer to your question is, we're not seeing that weakness. We had a really solid Prime Day last month at Dotdash Meredith on the commerce side. We've talked a lot about our view of how advertising—our advertisers at DDM and spend there in terms of both pipeline and booked looks very good right now. So we're looking healthy by business. I think, in care, we've talked about this a little bit; we may be seeing a little bit in the sense of families favoring daycare over individual care, nanny care, etc. But that trend I wouldn't say became more pronounced in the last month. That's been true for the last year or maybe even a bit more. The same is actually true on the Turo side: demand for travel, as far as we can see, has held strong. The one trend we have seen which has been true for a while is the mix shift towards cheaper cars. Although we haven't seen that sort of mix shift happening at MGM yet. In aggregate, it does feel healthy to us, but like I say, we're relatively small and I’m not sure that we're indicative of the whole world and our slice of the world.

Jeff Kipp, CEO

And then, John, on DDM, I'll take Q2 margins first. Incremental margins did exceed our expectations in Q2—a combination of a bit more traffic growth than maybe we conservatively forecast for, and then also monetization was better. Joey talked about strength in programmatic and also momentum in premium, and that really drops to the bottom line. Looking forward, as Joey mentioned, really traffic and monetization are strong. We're seeing solid traffic growth across the portfolio of titles and an acceleration so far this quarter. Entertainment is strong as we're lapping strikes, but also doing a good job of targeted content and driving traffic from new distribution sources, as Joey said. Food has been very strong, and the team has done a great job re-energizing all recipes and other key properties there. We see more opportunity. Monetization continues to be solid across premium and programmatic. The recovery/momentum in the broader advertising market feels solid, not booming, but solid; key categories for us like health, pharma, retail, and beauty remain strong. We've also seen stability/recovery in categories that we've said previously have been weak: food and beverage, home, and technology. Those patterns and continued improvement in programmatic monetization lead us to guide to 15% or more revenue growth on digital in Q3 and 25% plus EBITDA growth. Obviously, our financial plan is back-end weighted—roughly two-thirds of our profit comes in the second half of the year. But we see momentum, and we expect performance marketing to return to growth in the second half as licensing continues to be strong. So we're head down executing. Thank you.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Jason Helfstein of Oppenheimer. Please go ahead.

Jason Helfstein, Analyst

Thanks for taking the questions. Really more two follow-ups on Eric’s questions. First, given the improvements at DDM Angi this quarter, your positive outlook and comments in the last letter on the discount versus some of the parts, I would assume the only reason IAC did not repurchase stock was the company was restricted due to M&A talks. The press has obviously reported that you were interested in Paramount—that’s true or not. So maybe comment on this. And if you can talk about specific areas you find most attractive for M&A right now.

Joey Levin, CEO

Thanks, Jason. I’ll do them in reverse order. Turo's management is still very focused on getting public. I think there is not a milestone that needs to be hit in order to accomplish that. It's more the market meaning the banks always like to offer someone a discount to buy into an IPO. I think that the discount has been wide given the market volatility. Turo, being in a healthy position as a business, with a healthy balance sheet doesn't need to accomplish that with too wide a discount. So they're waiting for a favorable environment for that. Whether it ultimately happens, I don't know; there is not a specific business milestone that needs to be hit. I think Turo has the scale to be a public company. I've said all along and continue to say—we're relatively indifferent to whether it's a public company or a private company. We're much more focused on how it operates as a business. I am not sure that the IPO has a meaningful impact in either direction. The main thing is just the market environment and getting it into a healthy start. On your other question regarding Paramount, we did look at that; our chairman, as you know, has a great history with that asset. It's an iconic asset. In a way, it is similar to our feeling about DDM; content is enormously valuable. The people who invest in and own the best content, the best IP are in a good position, and in a better position as distribution diversifies. We think DDM is a beneficiary of that notwithstanding the prevailing narrative in markets. The reality is that the deal didn't work for us financially and I think the elephants put together a deal that's very hard to beat. On M&A and share repurchases, I'll start by saying there's lots of things that can happen in quarters that restrict or complicate our ability to accomplish share repurchases. We generally reject the notion that share repurchase is an essential baseline requiring explanation every 90 days. We have explained it every 90 days for many years, but it is important. We have not been averse to share repurchases historically. The only thing we're averse to is the notion of share repurchases signaling something—that's a game we consider foolish and are against. We believe we are outrageously cheap and would love to buy things that we know attractively. We think we have the ability to afford both share repurchases and M&A. This is the subject of significant internal debate. Our chairman wants to put pressure on us to pursue M&A opportunities that have always been an important source of growth for us.

Christopher Halpin, CFO and COO

Thank you, Jason. Operator, next question.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Youssef Squali of Truist. Please go ahead.

Youssef Squali, Analyst

Great. Thank you. I have two questions. Just as a follow-up to the prior question on M&A, it seems like in the letter, you're telegraphing the possibility of maybe entering a new category. Historically, you’ve focused on marketplaces. I'm not sure if that's a correct assumption or not, but if it is how will you get investors comfortable with the risk of venturing into a new category at a time when the stock discount is so high? And then second, on the data licensing deal, could you maybe share with us just broadly speaking how the pipeline for similar deals looks historically? When we've seen peers do deals like that—once OpenAI comes in, then you have a whole slew of others in the pipeline. Maybe, if you can provide some qualification or quantification of just how big the opportunity in front of you is. Some companies in similar situations have signed multi-hundred million multi-year deals. Any reason why you guys would not be in that position? Thank you.

Joey Levin, CEO

I'll do them in reverse order again. No reason why we would not be in that position to answer the last question. But we are in active conversations with several players for further licensing deals, and I expect more deals to arise. If you multiply the OpenAI deal times every other LLM or similar concept, you could reach very large numbers. I do say with high confidence that there will be more, and I expect that there will be many more. I also think that with some of the deals announced recently, you see relatively tiny players doing revenue share kinds of deals, which are perhaps interesting, but wouldn't generate real earnings until those businesses start to generate revenue. There could be cash deals and revenue share deals, but I believe the trend is tipping in favor of realizing that content is important and valuable, meaning payment will happen one way or another. As for entering new categories, this has been true for all of IAC’s history. Each time we've ventured into something new, it’s been a new definition. Most recently, with MGM, that was a minority way and majority way. When we first got into MGM, people were confused, but we saw an opportunity and seized it with a billion-dollar bet. That one worked out well, as have other examples. We understand the risk in new opportunities and will never bet the company; we'll take manageable risks and have a high confidence level for delivery.

Christopher Halpin, CFO and COO

All I had on the licensing deals is that there are active discussions. Each LLM and operator has their own approach, but we are disciplined in our discussions and approach that led to the OpenAI deal. As mentioned in the letter, given some of the challenges we've seen from LLMs publicly, we believe our preeminent brands and trusted content will only increase in value for sources in generative AI answers and LLMs. The trend points towards content being valuable and consumers require trustworthy sources, that provides us with a strong position.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Nick Jones of Citizens JMP. Please go ahead.

Nick Jones, Analyst

Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. I guess, two on DDM. In the letter, you spoke about driving up programmatic ad rates being up around 36% in the quarter versus prior expectations of 15% to 20%. How much more growth do you see for programmatic ad rates from here on DDM? And then, could you also just talk about some of the alternative identifiers in the market, like UID, and whether you're deploying this tool across your portfolio? Thank you.

Christopher Halpin, CFO and COO

Sure. Programmatic has been very strong, and the team has built an excellent tech stack, along with integrations with various players in the industry, moving from strength to strength. The average programmatic rate was up 36% in the second quarter compared to a broader market from a few different data points, which we'd say was up about 15% to 20%. That premium represents both superior technology performance and highlights the performance of DDM’s inventory due to the intent-based, high conversion dynamics and predictable nature of Dotdash Meredith’s users. The ads work well for both premium advertisers and programmatic. We're not going to give forward guidance on programmatic, but we have confidence we can outperform the market. Decipher is part of that. Currently, decipher that you referenced in the Adweek article is a differentiated product for our direct premium sales force. It is involved in over half our premium deals and aligns with what brands and agencies are seeking: better performance, better ROI, and privacy-friendly non-cookie-based solutions. We're excited about our partnership with OpenAI, which offers capabilities, greater scale and integrates video and images in targeting, along with performance forecasting. All of this aligns with our vision of intent-driven, privacy-friendly, highly performant advertising. We have over 27 case studies at DDM that demonstrate decipher’s effectiveness, and we plan to provide more case studies to investors, feeling optimistic about continued outperformance in monetization. Thank you.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Brent Thill of Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Analyst, Analyst

Great. Hey guys. It's James on for Brent. Can you just talk a little bit more about Google’s latest plans and not deprecating third-party cookies? And how that impacts your medium to long-term outlook for Dotdash Meredith and your ad business more broadly? And then, could you also just talk about some of the alternative identifiers in the market, like UID and whether you're deploying this tool across your portfolio? Thank you.

Christopher Halpin, CFO and COO

Sure. The punch line on Google's decision not to deprecate cookies is that we think the end state is more or less the same—maybe the timeline differs, but the end state is similar. Google will offer users choice, and depending on how that’s presented, users may choose not to continue cookies, which means the universe of audience that is cookied will shrink. The cookied audience has been shrinking and has shrank dramatically when Apple disabled cookies and made them unavailable for all of iOS, which is a very valuable audience. The cookied audience continues to shrink, which is one reason we're excited about DDM. We offer advertisers access to the non-cookied audience with intent and performance. What's been happening is the shrinking cookied audience has had a lot of demand chasing shrinking supply, driving prices up for the cookied audience. Meanwhile, DDM offers advertisers access to the entire audience, including those valuable iOS users, and we believe we can tap into that market effectively because of our brand's intent. Our brands have significant intent, proven through our case studies showing superior performance. Thus, we view what's happening with cookies, as long-term beneficial for Dotdash Meredith.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Yugal Arouninan of Citigroup. Please go ahead.

Yugal Arouninan, Analyst

Hey, thanks. Good morning, guys. Back to Angi and Jeff if you could give us a little bit more color on what the focus is on the consumer experience improvement right now? They're understanding we're in the fourth innings, and you’ve done some and there is more to do. But what are the key areas of focus at this point? And then on the SEO side, I think a little bit more color on what's needed to get SEO from this stabilization point to where it's actually driving improvements? Thanks.

Christopher Halpin, CFO and COO

I’ll take it and start with the second first. On SEO, there's a range of execution tasks we need to accomplish. We have just rebuilt the infrastructure to put our content on and to enhance our site linking. That's in place with some encouraging early indicators, but it's too early to call it. Secondly, we must have a disciplined program of producing the right content and refreshing it consistently, which we’ve talked about with DDM over the years. We believe we have the team in place, the technology in place, and the path to execute here, but it just must be done. As for improving consumer experience—what we call the homeowner experience—we’ve already done a considerable amount of work. The core focus over the last year and a half is improving matching. We’ve improved the number of homeowners matched significantly, which has driven jobs done well. Now we're working on driving better matches. We discussed improving our Q&A to be conditional; for example, we only ask the necessary questions based on earlier answers. This way, we can be more certain about what the job is and how to price the lead while ensuring a better match of the right pro. Having the right pro makes a higher chance for the job being done well. So, that is really our core focus there. We're doing various things, but I would just stop here.

Joey Levin, CEO

Yep.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Tom Champion of Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Tom Champion, Analyst

Hi, good morning, guys. Joey, can you talk a little bit about engagement trends on DDM properties, peers if harness new formats and machine learning models to drive personalization and higher time spent. Is this an opportunity for DDM? And then, Jeff, I’d just be curious to get your thoughts if the Fed cuts rates next month. Is that a tailwind for the Angi business? Thank you.

Joey Levin, CEO

Sure, Tom. Yes, that is an opportunity. I'm glad you raised it. When we think about DDM’s growth, there is a focus on traffic volume, engagement, and frequency. Different properties have different levels of frequency and engagement. We think we have real opportunities to grow that more deeply. Recipes have deep engagement, so there is perhaps an opportunity to drive frequency or scale there; something like People Magazine could have significant scale and volume, and the opportunity there would be to drive deeper engagement. AI is a fantastic tool for that. We have started exploring that, mostly figuring out how to suggest the next article, which AI can do much better than people. We're deploying those tools to drive engagement, and I think we can achieve real wins there.

Jeff Kipp, CEO

On the rate cut, Angi has a lot of complexity in the macro environment right now, with many forces at play. By itself, a rate cut would likely spur homeowner demand, as it could increase the rate of home buying and thus the repairs you’d make to sell your house and repairs you’d do when moving in. It would theoretically lower the cost of home equity lines and encourage improvements. It's a little difficult to predict all the forces at work right now; we have some evidence indicating that individuals have shifted their own personal capital towards improvements because they can't move. The rate cut would have to be material to impact those out there who have 2.5% rates, making them willing to consider moving based on the value trade-off. There are natural hedges there, as per my previous comments.

Joey Levin, CEO

Just to put some numbers around that: every time a home turns over, on average, $15,000 of home improvements occur. Fewer turnovers, as we've seen for a while, means that those $15,000 events aren't happening to the same degree. We want to see more home turnover, but there are some natural hedges as Jeff mentioned, and the reality is we've said for a while that I think 60% of our business is non-discretionary. So, as we always say at the locksmith, you're not waiting for rates to turn in a locksmith situation. I think that covers it. Thank you all for joining us. Thanks for the great questions, and for your support. A special thank you to the IT folks making all this happen. Talk to you all next quarter.

Jeff Kipp, CEO

Thank you.

Operator, Operator

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation, and you may now disconnect.