Earnings Call Transcript - BB Q3 2024

Operator, Operator

Good afternoon, and welcome to the BlackBerry Third Quarter Fiscal Year 2024 Results Conference Call. My name is Chuck, and I'll be your conference moderator for today's call. During the presentation, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. We will be facilitating a question-and-answer session towards the end of the conference. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded for replay purposes. I would now like to turn today's call over to Mr. Tim Foote, Vice President of BlackBerry Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

Tim Foote, Vice President, Investor Relations

Thank you, Chuck. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to BlackBerry's third quarter 2024 earnings conference call. I'm delighted to say that joining me on today's call is BlackBerry's new Chief Executive Officer, John Giamatteo; and Chief Financial Officer, Steve Rai. After I read our cautionary note regarding forward-looking statements, John will provide a business update, and Steve will review the financial results. We will then open the call for a brief Q&A session. This call is available to the general public via call-in numbers and webcast in the Investor Information section at blackberry.com. A replay will also be available on the blackberry.com website. Some of the statements we'll be making today constitute forward-looking statements and are made pursuant to the Safe Harbor provisions of applicable US and Canadian securities laws. We'll indicate forward-looking statements by using words such as expect, will, should, model, intend, believe, and similar expressions. Forward-looking statements are based on estimates and assumptions made by the Company in light of its experience and its perception of historical trends, current conditions, and expected future developments, as well as other factors that the Company believes are relevant. Many factors could cause the Company's actual results or performance to differ materially from those expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements. These factors include the risk factors that are discussed in the Company's annual filings and MD&A. You should not place undue reliance on the Company's forward-looking statements. Any forward-looking statements are made only as of today, and the Company has no intention and undertakes no obligation to update or revise any of them, except as required by law. As is customary, during the call, John and Steve will reference non-GAAP numbers in their summary of our quarterly results. For a reconciliation between our GAAP and non-GAAP numbers, please see the earnings press release published earlier today, which is available on the EDGAR, SEDAR+, and blackberry.com websites. And with that, I'll turn the call over to John.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Thanks, Tim, and hello, everyone. My name is John Giamatteo and I'm delighted to be joining you all today as BlackBerry's new CEO. I'm sure some of you will already know me from my time as President of the Cybersecurity Business unit, where, while we still have work to do, the team has made significant progress with product, go-to-market, and overall operational efficiency during the past couple of years. As President, I've been at the heart of BlackBerry's operations, and I'm already familiar with how things work, the challenges we face, and the steps we need to take going forward. I've stepped into this role at a pivotal time for BlackBerry as we have a lot of work ahead of us. Among my first priorities is to fully separate the IoT and Cybersecurity business units, right-sizing our operations, and driving efficiencies in the process. But I'll come back to this more later in the call. Let me first discuss our performance this quarter, starting with the IoT business. The IoT team delivered the strongest quarter for revenue for several years despite a number of industry-level headwinds. Revenue for the quarter increased 12% sequentially and 8% year-on-year to $55 million. Gross margin remained at a strong 84%. The main driver for revenue growth this quarter was the automotive and, in particular, Advanced Driver Assistance Systems, or ADAS. Revenue from royalties increased sequentially, and while still below the long-term average, represented 44% of QNX revenue. Development seats were 32%, and services 24% of revenue in the quarter. In addition to delivering solid revenue, we maintained our design win momentum, adding meaningfully to our QNX royalty backlog. This was a strong quarter for new ADAS-related design wins. We secured a design win for our RTOS for safety and secure C++ libraries for use in a front-facing camera solution that will be deployed by a leading European automaker. QNX will also be the foundation for an ADAS platform to be developed by a global tier-one supplier and used by two leading Asian OEMs. Among other ADAS wins was a design with one of the largest automakers in the world, who will use QNX OS for Safety as its operating system. But this wasn't only a good quarter for automotive. We secured a number of new GEM design wins as well. The use cases secured this quarter were broad. They included displacing a rival product with QNX Hypervisor for an industrial automation controller that will be used in applications such as petroleum refineries, factory automation, and wastewater treatment. In medical, we secured a significant design for infusion pumps for bedside medication delivery, and our Hypervisor and Black Channel products will be used in autonomous off-road defense vehicles as well. We continue to be excited about the large and growing opportunities outside of auto, where the need for safety-critical high-performance software at the edge is growing fast. And speaking of high performance, we remain firmly on track for general access release for our QNX SDP 8.0 next-generation platform. This will be a really significant product launch, and everybody at BlackBerry couldn't be more excited about it. The step change in performance and scalability will enable developers to fully harness the significant levels of additional compute that next-generation processors offer. So, look out for more information on this and other exciting developments as we gear up for CES in January. Turning now to a brief update on IVY. We continue to make progress in what is a long sales cycle business. Proof of Concept trials are progressing well and feedback from customers remains strong. We remain focused on converting POCs into design wins and hope to announce another win at CES in January. The IVY ecosystem continues to grow strongly, and at CES, we'll be demonstrating more than 20 use cases, with 12 partners, and expect there to be three third-party booths demonstrating IVY-based products. Moving now to outlook for the IoT business in Q4. As mentioned, the strong revenue growth and continued design win momentum in Q3 was achieved despite some macro headwinds. The first was the UAW labor disputes, which naturally have had a negative impact on production volumes for some of our largest customers, and we expect this impact to be felt in our fiscal Q4. The second is ongoing slippage of software programs at major automakers. Leading OEMs continue to deal with the challenges of delivering very complex automotive software solutions, and while there is no change in strategic direction towards software-defined vehicles, some of the timelines have pushed back. Because of these near-term headwinds, we're taking a more conservative view on our Q4 outlook. That said, we continue to expect QNX to have its strongest quarter ever, with revenue in the range of $62 million to $66 million. Now, let me turn to the Cybersecurity business unit. This was a strong quarter for Cyber. Revenue in Q3 was $114 million, growing 44% sequentially, and 8% year-over-year. Gross margin improved by 14 percentage points to 68%. While ARR of $273 million showed a sequential decrease, it was the smallest decrease in the last two years, pointing to a stabilization in Q4 before an anticipated return to growth next fiscal year. The dollar-based net retention rate improved 1 percentage point to 82%. Cyber total contract value, or TCV billings, was $109 million, representing solid sequential growth of 47%, and year-over-year growth of 6%. The Cyber business has a very strong foothold in the government space, where leading governments around the world trust BlackBerry's software to secure their environments, communications, and data. While this type of business often has longer sales cycles, the partnerships that are built are often very long term. We are delighted to build such a partnership with the Government of Malaysia this quarter by securing a significant multi-year contract to provide a full range of products. The deal included our Cylance, UEM, AtHoc, and Secusmart offerings. As part of the deal, BlackBerry will establish a Cybersecurity Center of Excellence in Kuala Lumpur during calendar year 2024. We were also very pleased to land a significant seven-year AtHoc contract with the US Department of Homeland Security. AtHoc which is the leading critical events management solution in the US federal government with 75% market share, will be used to power the DHS's new Personal Emergency Notification System. Revenue recognition on some of the products in the portfolio result in significant in-quarter revenue. In particular, our Secusmart secure communication software offerings and some elements of our UEM endpoint management. The remainder, in contrast, are generally recognized on a ratable basis. Given the strong Secusmart content this quarter, this was a significant tailwind, helping in part to drive both revenue and gross margin improvements. While deals of this magnitude don't necessarily land every quarter, we're very pleased with the overall traction we are seeing with Secusmart outside of its core German market. Let me now switch to some of the key product developments that we have going on in Cyber. Over the past couple of years, the Cyber product team has been busy bringing leading solutions to market, closing a number of product gaps, and positioning us to compete. During the quarter, we announced the latest of these with a launch of the generative AI-powered cybersecurity SOC assistant. This solution helps customers to quickly understand threat alerts and prioritize their response with inline generative AI assistance without needing to be an expert in Prompt Engineering. We also announced a number of enhancements to our Secusmart product suite for secure communications. This included encrypted video and group audio calls, along with additional compliance tools and administrative features as well. Moving now to outlook for our Cyber business in Q4, we expect revenue to be in the range of $83 million to $88 million for the quarter. This is lower than our previous outlook, primarily because of the reassessment of the likelihood, size, and timing of some of the large government deals in the pipeline. We also expect ARR to stabilize and to be flat sequentially. Touching briefly on licensing, revenue for the quarter was $6 million, and we continue to expect Q4 to be approximately $5 million, as before. So, let me now hand the call over to Steve, who will provide you more color on our financials. Steve, over to you.

Steve Rai, CFO

Thank you, John. As always, my comments on our financial performance will be in non-GAAP terms unless otherwise noted. Total Company revenue for the third quarter was $175 million. IoT revenue was $55 million. Cybersecurity revenue was $114 million. And licensing revenue was $6 million. The percentage of software product revenue that was recurring decreased to approximately 70%, primarily driven by the impact of Secusmart revenue related to the Malaysia deal that John referenced. Total Company gross margin improved to 73%, also largely driven by Malaysia. Operating expenses were $115 million, broadly flat quarter-on-quarter, but as in Q2, benefiting from some one-time items such as reaching benefit caps for the calendar year. Non-GAAP operating expenses exclude a $13 million fair value gain on the convertible debentures, an $11 million impairment of long-lived assets, $9 million in amortization of acquired intangibles, $9 million in restructuring expenses, and $7 million in stock compensation expense. The non-GAAP operating profit was $13 million, and non-GAAP net profit for the third quarter was $3 million. BlackBerry delivered $0.01 of non-GAAP basic earnings per share for the quarter, beating expectations. Adjusted EBITDA, excluding the Non-GAAP adjustments outlined, was $18 million. Total cash, cash equivalents, and investments decreased to $271 million as at November 30th, due in part to cash used by operating activities of $31 million, but primarily to a $215 million net reduction in outstanding debt. During the quarter, the $365 million of convertible debentures issued in September 2020 were fully repaid as previously communicated. A smaller $150 million of short-term convertible debentures were then issued, which mature in February 2024, with an option to extend to May 2024 should both parties agree. Despite significant increases in the level of interest rates since 2020, the coupon rate on these extension debentures remains at 1.75% and the conversion price remains at $6. This provides BlackBerry with meaningful additional liquidity at attractive rates while we evaluate longer-term financing needs. That concludes my comments, and I'll turn it back to John.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Thank you, Steve. Last week, we announced a change in strategic direction of the Company. The Board, with input from its advisors, has reassessed the earlier decision to pursue a subsidiary IPO of the IoT business. We believe there is increased optionality for optimizing shareholder value by stepping back from that path and instead focusing on fully separating the IoT and Cyber businesses. As part of this, we will have the opportunity to optimize and streamline processes, building even stronger standalone divisions. A key focus is to return BlackBerry to profitability and positive cash flow, and this requires us to make some tough decisions on our cost structure. In Q3, we took a number of actions to reduce expenses in the Cyber business and the back office, that will reduce our cost run rate by about $50 million per year. These decisions, along with strong collection receivables, played a part in almost halving our operating cash usage from $56 million last quarter to $31 million in Q3. Given the combination of strong billings this past quarter and the benefit of a full quarter of cost reductions, we expect to further improve operating cash flow in Q4. However, we believe that we can go further. BlackBerry hasn't been in an investment mode, particularly in Cyber, and now that a number of key product enhancements have been brought to market, we're in a position to return investment levels closer to industry averages. Furthermore, BlackBerry's business has significantly pivoted and made a number of acquisitions over the years, and we see ways to streamline how our back office works. For instance, despite recent cost reduction efforts, we still have 36 offices worldwide. We have some duplicative teams. To illustrate the potential opportunities, let me outline current OpEx expectations for Q4. As mentioned, we expect total Company revenue to be in the range of $150 million to $159 million. On a non-GAAP basis, sales and marketing is expected to be approximately 27%; while R&D, 30%; and G&A, excluding amortization, at 20%. Both R&D and G&A are high compared to our long-term targets, but we see opportunities to significantly right-size across the board while continuing to nurture the exciting growth opportunities in our two divisions. We are targeting the completion of the separation process in two fully standalone divisions with a much lighter-weight corporate overlay in calendar year 2023. So, before we open the lines for Q&A, let me quickly summarize the key messages. This was a good quarter for BlackBerry. The IoT business unit delivered its strongest quarterly revenue for the past two years, maintained strong momentum in adding royalty backlog from design wins in Auto and GEM. The Cyber business secured large government deals that helped drive strong sequential revenue growth, and ARR continues to stabilize. We took actions relating to our cost structure, that in part, contributed to a significantly lower operating cash flow usage, and we are targeting significant further reductions in the future. And we have begun to work to separate our IoT and Cyber business units into fully standalone divisions that we believe will position BlackBerry for more strategic alternatives to drive increased shareholder value. Let's now move to Q&A. Operator, can you please open the lines?

Operator, Operator

Yes, sir. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. And the first question will come from Mike Walkley with Canaccord Genuity. Please go ahead.

Michael Walkley, Analyst

Great. Thanks for taking my questions. And John, congratulations on your promotion to CEO.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Thank you.

Michael Walkley, Analyst

I just want to dig in, I guess to start with on the Cybersecurity outlook, given the probability of some of the larger government deals. Are these deals just taking longer to close, which is common for some of the large deals in this tougher macro environment, or have some been lost? And I guess given the lumpiness within Cybersecurity, how should we think maybe about a run rate for the business off of what your guidance is this year into 2025? I know you're not providing long-term guidance, but do you think this business grows off of what you put up for 2024? Thank you.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Yes, those are great questions. Regarding the deals and their inconsistency, many are influenced by timing rather than completely disappearing. Current events, like the ongoing resolution activities within the US government, tend to hinder progress a bit. Similar situations are occurring in the German government, where we have a significant presence with our Secusmart business. Therefore, many of these deals are impacted by timing issues. There’s one specific deal where the customer opted for an IoT solution instead of an Android one, which slightly reduces the market opportunities for us as they shift to a different operating system. So, some of this is about timing and a customer’s technological shift that requires less of what we provide. In terms of long-term government business, it inherently tends to be quite variable. However, in this quarter, we experienced favorable outcomes with Malaysia and DHS, among others. I am committed to providing a clear and realistic overview of this business, and while I would like to share some opportunities in our forecast and raise guidance, I believe in being balanced and cautious. As I step into this new role, I aim to offer as much transparency as possible.

Michael Walkley, Analyst

Okay. Great. I have a follow-up question regarding the bigger picture. It seems you've already made some tough decisions on cutting costs in the Cybersecurity area, but are you leaving the IoT sector as it is, or are there also ways to optimize that business? I understand you've been CEO for a brief period, but how do you plan to allocate resources between the two sectors as you prepare to report them separately?

John Giamatteo, CEO

I believe it's worth revisiting this topic next quarter as we explore it further. It's safe to say that the IoT business is in a much better and more stable position and has been on a growth trajectory. We certainly want to maintain the momentum we have in IoT. However, since I'm only a week into this new role, I appreciate your patience, and we will provide more insights on this in the next quarter.

Michael Walkley, Analyst

Yes, fair enough. Best wishes for success in your new role and happy holidays to everybody on the call.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Same to you. Thank you.

Paul Treiber, Analyst

Thanks for taking the question, and good afternoon. Just a high-level question, just regarding the separation of QNX and Cyber, you mentioned, a better position for the Company for strategic alternatives. What specifically do you mean by that? I mean, are you looking at divesting some segments or an entire segment here?

John Giamatteo, CEO

I believe this gives us more flexibility. In the past, our focus areas have been somewhat blended, including Cyber, IoT, and a corporate convergence strategy, which at times has limited our options. By making a clear decision to operate two independent business units that are both aimed at profitability, we feel this opens up more possibilities for us. This could include a spin-off, a sale, or other strategies that our board will evaluate to maximize shareholder value. In the meantime, aligning them independently allows each to concentrate on their significant market opportunities. We believe this approach provides better options for our future.

Paul Treiber, Analyst

Okay. Thanks for that color. The second question, just on liquidity and cash flow, when you comment on Q4 cash flow improving, it's helpful, but how do we think about liquidity here, particularly with the converts, there's an option to extend them, but as you separate the two businesses, how do you think about managing cash and how much cash would be consumed in the short term, just with any restructuring payouts?

Steve Rai, CFO

So, a couple of things, Paul. As John mentioned, in the next quarter, which is our year-end, we'll be able to provide more specific details on those plans. There will also be updates regarding the financing structure. We are actively pursuing and exploring longer-term financing options, and we are working on implementing those. We have enough liquidity and access to capital to proceed with the plan. In the short term, our aim is to have both businesses generating positive cash flow, so we do not expect a significant drag on the business after a relatively brief period. We are focused on those plans.

Paul Treiber, Analyst

I have one last question for John. As the Head of the Cyber business for a few years, you've witnessed the investments in both product and market strategy. What are your thoughts on the strategic direction of the business regarding product development and customer engagement, and what does the growth trajectory look like moving forward?

John Giamatteo, CEO

Yes. The Cyber business unit has various dynamics due to the different products we offer. An example worth mentioning is the Malaysia deal, which highlighted how they embraced our overall vision for the portfolio. While there may be other products available, it was the comprehensive solution we provided that truly impressed them and led them to choose us as their partner. I believe that our portfolio approach is beneficial for certain clients, particularly large government entities seeking a wide range of solutions. Our AtHoc business is performing exceptionally well and gaining market share. Our Secusmart business is strong within the German government and we've had some notable successes outside of Germany this year, which we view as positive progress. In terms of UES, we are concentrating on the Cylance platform to enhance the product. We've identified some gaps and quality issues in the portfolio. Each segment has its own challenges, and UEM is a well-established product with slower growth. Overall, we see potential for growth in this business. We are closely examining our plans for next year and will provide updates next quarter. The diverse dynamics within the Cyber business can make it difficult to predict growth accurately. We'll share further details in the next update, but I hope this gives you some insights.

Paul Treiber, Analyst

Thanks.

Luke Junk, Analyst

Good afternoon. Thanks for taking the questions. I want to start with IoT. Just hoping you could comment at a high level on the bookings environment in automotive. Just wondering if you're seeing any impact of moderating EV demand on the software side, realizing that these macro issues we've been dealing with have been pre-existing for a few quarters now, but is EV interplaying with that at all, John?

John Giamatteo, CEO

Yes, we've definitely noticed some delays with major next-generation EV projects from some of the large manufacturers. However, the underlying fundamentals of our IoT business are quite strong right now. Considering our backlog for royalties and the number of design wins we secured, especially in automotive with GEM and others, we see this as a significant opportunity. IVY is well-positioned in that market, and I believe we're in a good position to handle any challenges that arise. In the last couple of quarters, we've faced some headwinds from the UAW strikes and many manufacturers scaling back on more advanced vehicles. Nonetheless, we feel confident about our positioning. As these challenges ease and new designs come to market, we believe we're well situated. Our strong backlog positions us favorably for the future.

Luke Junk, Analyst

Thanks for that. I appreciate your insights on the cost structure and cash flows. John, I would like to understand your approach regarding BlackBerry's overall operations at the segment level. Should we view your role as a player-coach?

John Giamatteo, CEO

A player-coach mentality is an interesting way to describe it. We have a great team in IoT with strong leadership, which has built a solid business. We absolutely want to provide them with the resources, support, and financial backing that a larger company can offer. I see it as two companies operating independently, each driving their own businesses, supported by a holding company structure that provides everything they need to move forward. While it may not be precisely a player-coach dynamic, it resembles a parent-child relationship; we want our teams to strive for success, and we will do everything possible to equip them to achieve their goals.

Luke Junk, Analyst

Okay. I'll leave it there. Thank you.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Thanks, Luke.

Trip Chowdhry, Analyst

Thank you very much, and it was a strong quarter. I have a couple of questions. First, regarding Cybersecurity. Traditional machine learning introduced a range of challenges in Cybersecurity, which Cylance and BlackBerry have effectively addressed. Now we are seeing generative AI, including transformer models, entering the market. I would like to know what kind of market expansion you anticipate these new technologies will create for BlackBerry and how the company plans to monetize or take advantage of the new threats arising from these generative technologies. I also have a follow-up.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Thanks, Trip. Yes, absolutely. We think AI has a big role to play in this industry. It's actually one of the things that we think is one of our differentiators, is our machine learning, our AI technology that underpins our entire portfolio. Cylance was, I would say, the inventor, the creator of AI/ML cybersecurity. We're on our seventh generation of machine learning where our efficacy rates are the best that they've ever been. So, this is something that we watch closely. We invest close. We incorporate some of the technology not only into our cyber threat intelligence but just how we even in our EDR capabilities. When a notification comes up, how can we help our SOC analysts, our customers, identify these issues much more quickly using AI technology? So, we think it has a very big role to play. We're going to continue to invest in it and leverage it as a way for us to grow our revenue.

Trip Chowdhry, Analyst

The second question is about software in the new generation of cars, including electric vehicles. Even today, Porsche has not implemented your software system. Software remains the weakest link for these newer companies like Lucid and Fisker, as well as traditional automakers. I'm curious about what is holding these established automakers back from fully adopting BlackBerry and QNX. Why are they choosing to follow a path that seems destined for failure by trying to develop software themselves when they lack the necessary skills? The decision to buy rather than make should be obvious. Why are these companies not adopting QNX to get ahead in the software-defined vehicle market? I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Thank you, and good job this quarter.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Thanks, Trip. I was just wondering if you would like to join our sales team because I think it would be a great fit. We believe that software-defined vehicles and incorporating that technology is beneficial for everyone involved: the original equipment manufacturers, their customers, and us. We've been fortunate, as our team has done a fantastic job. We are deeply established, with over 235 million vehicles currently using QNX. The design wins we have secured with our major customers position us very well. We believe we are capturing our fair share of the market, with more potential to explore. There have been some challenges this year due to economic factors and strikes, which may have caused a temporary slowdown. However, when the market opens up and the next generation of electric vehicles—featuring more software than ever—arrives, we believe we are well-positioned to gain even more market share, especially with our latest release, SDP 8.0, which enhances processor capabilities and next-generation potential. We are fully committed to this and look forward to announcing more design wins in the future.

Trip Chowdhry, Analyst

Thank you so much. All the best

John Giamatteo, CEO

Thanks, Trip.

Todd Copeland, Analyst

Yes. Good evening. I just had a couple of cash questions. What's the expectation for cash or restructuring cost relating to Cyber?

Steve Rai, CFO

So we're working through that, but it's not going to be astronomical. It'll be well within our means to handle with the available resources.

Todd Copeland, Analyst

Okay. Is that expected to be booked in the fourth quarter?

Steve Rai, CFO

You'll have to stay tuned, but we'll provide an update. We're working through that.

Todd Copeland, Analyst

Okay. And at this point, what is the expected timing to get Cyber cash flow positive, with the track you're getting yourself on?

John Giamatteo, CEO

Todd, I think that's something we're going to have to come back to you on. We have made great strides over the course of the last couple of years. We've got more plans that we're working through now, and I think it's probably best for us to give you a more comprehensive update next quarter after we've done some of that work.

Todd Copeland, Analyst

I see. Okay. And then, I just wanted to make sure I had this right. It sounded like you said you expected to have the separation complete next fiscal year, so it sounds like it's going to take a little while to work through the redundancies, the 36 offices, and whatever other optimization plans you want to put in place. Can you just talk us through a rough timeline on that? Thanks a lot.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Yes. I believe that as we progress through this process, there will be some immediate opportunities for quick wins that can help us save money and align our teams. However, there will also be some initiatives that will require more time to implement. By mid-calendar year, we aim to have most of the functions and capabilities within the two business units operational and independent, which we would consider a success. There may be some lingering issues, particularly IT-related challenges, that could take longer to resolve and properly establish in the divisions. Nevertheless, our goal is to move as quickly as possible.

Todd Copeland, Analyst

That's all for me. Thanks a lot.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Thanks, Todd.

Daniel Chan, Analyst

Thank you, John. Your contract specifies an incentive for achieving cash flow positivity by the first quarter of fiscal 2025, which is a tight timeline given the amount of work ahead. I appreciate you mentioning the organic cost reductions you are considering. I am curious if you are exploring any additional options at this stage. Specifically, your predecessor indicated that asset sales were not a consideration for reaching profitability. I'm interested to know if there are alternatives beyond the organic cost cuts you are contemplating.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Yes. As I approach this situation, I want to explore all of our options with a fresh perspective. The organic strategies you mentioned should take up most of our time, as that's where the significant revenue lies. We need to streamline our operations and get our divisions running efficiently. At the same time, with my unique perspective after being with the Company for a couple of years, I want to evaluate our other assets and determine if they should remain part of the Company or if there are opportunities to monetize them in different ways. I am open to considering all these possibilities. However, I believe that 80% of our path to achieving cash flow positivity will likely come from our organic initiatives, while we will also explore the remaining 10% to 20% through other opportunities.

Daniel Chan, Analyst

That's helpful. Thanks. Can you get to your targets just by cost cuts alone?

John Giamatteo, CEO

How about we revisit this next quarter? I would really like that. However, I genuinely want to see more growth from the business. There are two approaches to achieving cash flow positivity: one involves growth, and the other entails reducing our cost structure. Given the fluctuations in revenue, our focus has shifted more towards managing costs. However, while we work on driving revenue and concentrating on costs, we might also explore some of the assets you mentioned. All of these factors contribute to improving our situation within the next year.

Daniel Chan, Analyst

Okay. That's great. Maybe on the ARR a little bit. That metric continues to decline, and as you pointed out, it's slowing, its decline. But I think the expectation was for that to have stabilized or even grow by now. What has been the source of its continued declines? And you called out, it's stabilizing by next quarter. What's giving you the confidence that it's going to stabilize next quarter? Thank you.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Yes. From the perspective of stabilizing ARR, we have experienced some churn primarily from our smaller UES customers, along with a bit from UEM. Renewal rates is an area of focus for us, and we believe that by enhancing the product and increasing its stability, our customers will continue to use it. Additionally, some customers who expressed their intent to leave will naturally drop off, allowing us to reach a low point. I feel confident that as the product stabilizes and we see some of the customers who were unhappy move on, we are approaching a bottoming out point. With recent successes like securing Malaysia and other new logos, we can anticipate an upward trend. While we may be a quarter behind our initial expectations, I remain optimistic that we are leveling off and can look forward to growth as we move into next year.

Daniel Chan, Analyst

Thanks, John.

John Giamatteo, CEO

All right. Thanks, Daniel.

Operator, Operator

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. John Giamatteo, CEO of BlackBerry, for any closing remarks. Please go ahead, sir.

John Giamatteo, CEO

Perfect. Thank you, operator. So, let me just finish today just by reminding everybody that our IoT division will be showcasing a number of exciting developments in both QNX and IVY at CES in Las Vegas from January 9th to the 12th, as well as, we'll be hosting the MotorTrend Software-Defined Vehicle Innovator Awards as well. So, there'll be an investor-focused Q&A on Wednesday, January 10th, featuring members of the IoT leadership team. So, please look out for further details earlier in the new year on how you can join via live stream. So, thank you all for joining us here today, and I look forward to speaking to you again soon. Bye, everyone.

Operator, Operator

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.