Earnings Call Transcript - CUZ Q3 2023

Operator, Operator

Good morning, and welcome to the Cousins Properties Third Quarter 2023 Conference Call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. After today’s presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Please also note that this event is being recorded today. I would now like to turn the conference over to Pamela Roper, General Counsel. Please go ahead.

Pamela Roper, General Counsel

Thank you. Good morning, and welcome to Cousins Properties' Third Quarter Earnings Conference Call. With me today are Colin Connolly, our President and Chief Executive Officer; Richard Hickson, our Executive Vice President of Operations; and Gregg Adzema, our Chief Financial Officer. The press release and supplemental package were distributed yesterday afternoon as well as furnished on Form 8-K. In the supplemental package, the company has reconciled all non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures in accordance with Reg G requirements. If you did not receive a copy, these documents are available through the quarterly disclosures and supplemental SEC information links on the Investor Relations page of our website, Cousins.com. Please be aware that certain matters discussed today may constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of Federal Securities laws, and actual results may differ materially from these statements due to a variety of risks and uncertainties and other factors, including the risk factors set forth in our annual report on Form 10-K and our other SEC filings. The company does not undertake any duty to update any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise. The full declaration regarding forward-looking statements is available in the supplemental package posted yesterday and a detailed discussion of some potential risks is contained in our filings with the SEC. With that, I'll turn the call over to Colin Connolly.

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Thank you, Pam and good morning everyone. We had a strong third quarter at Cousins. On the earnings front, the team delivered $0.65 per share in FFO and same-property net operating income increased 4.6% on a cash basis. We leased 548,000 square feet during the quarter with a 9.8% cash rent roll-up. New and expansion leases totaled 189,000 square feet. In addition, we executed key renewals in Atlanta and Tampa. These are terrific results in any market. I will start with a few observations on the macro environment. To tame inflation, the Federal Reserve has rapidly raised interest rates more than 500 basis points over the past 18 months. The impact of higher rates has been slow to materialize, but they are now upon us. The economy is slowing and financial conditions have tightened. Real estate debt and equity are less available and significantly more expensive. As a result, a meaningful bid/ask spread has emerged and the investment sales market has temporarily frozen leading to few relevant data points for asset pricing. None of this should be a surprise. This is all typical behavior in a rate tightening cycle. The macro narrative for the office sector is likely to get worse before it gets better. Media will focus on rising vacancy rates and accelerating loan defaults. This reporting will not be wrong, however, it will be a significant overgeneralization. As I said last quarter, where and what you invest in matters. Over the last 12 years, Cousins has intentionally focused on investments in premier lifestyle office and mixed-use properties located in vibrant and well-amenitized Sunbelt neighborhoods. This is an entirely different strategy than commodity office in older downtowns in nondescript suburban locations. Despite the challenging macro environment, we are seeing some positive trends in our portfolio. I'll highlight a few. First, the return to work is gaining momentum. CEO sentiment around remote work has shifted. Company announcements mandating three, four, and in some cases, five days a week of in-person work are accelerating and finally require compliance. In-person activity has increased within our portfolio, and we are seeing patterns begin to normalize in many properties. As it turns out, lifestyle office properties are full of professionals whose lifestyle is set around working in the office, at least most of the time. Collaboration, mentoring and serendipity are key to advancing their careers. Come visit one of our properties and you'll see a very different story than the next headline with Castle data, which as an aside, is proving to not be representative of Trophy properties. Second, the flight to quality is becoming more pronounced. Newer vintage product is commanding most of the demand. Over the last 12 months, according to JLL, office properties built since 2010 have accounted for 114 million square feet of positive net absorption. Properties built before 2010 account for 346 million square feet of negative net absorption. This statistic clearly captures the story. Third, the flight to capital is increasingly more important. Historically, landlords evaluated the credit of prospective customers. Today, it goes both ways. Prospective customers and their brokers are now evaluating the credit of their landlords. Sponsorship is more important than ever. Not surprising, owners like Cousins with sound capital structures are growing market share. Fourth, there is little to no capital availability for older vintage lower-quality office properties or for speculative new development. So what are the implications for the office sector? There's a bifurcation in the market. It is not a one-size-fits-all answer. Many traditional offices are emptying and will stagnate until they are repurposed or torn down. At the same time, lifestyle office is filling up and will thrive over the long term. As I have mentioned previously, the office is not debt; obsolete offices are debt. Said another way, the office market is not oversupplied. Commodity office is under-demolished. The market and the media continue to underappreciate this. There is opportunity for investors who do. What does this mean for Cousins? Early green shoots are taking shape for our Sun Belt Trophy portfolio. Our customers are returning in greater force, accelerated obsolescence is reducing competition, the development pipeline is shrinking and demand remains firmly focused on the best lifestyle properties in the best submarkets. While it will take time, the market has begun the rebalancing process. Longer term, the office sector is likely to reshape. Financial constraints are already creating pressure on many real estate platforms. Thus, market players are likely to change. In addition, we believe that investors and the media will increasingly differentiate lifestyle office from commodity office. The fundamentals are just too different to be aggregated together. And if capital remains constrained, private market pricing will need to converge with public market valuations to find liquidity. Similar public-private pricing resets have occurred in past cycles, such a scenario would create a unique opportunity for a well-capitalized public REIT like Cousins. In closing, we are realistic about the potential negative impacts of higher interest rates on the economy and our earnings. However, we built Cousins to thrive during all phases of the economic cycle. And today, we are in an advantageous position relative to many of our other office peers. We are in the right Sunbelt markets. We own a trophy lifestyle portfolio with modest near-term lease expirations. We have a fortress balance sheet with minimal near-term debt maturities, and we have a well-covered dividend. I believe that we have unique optionality at Cousins and we'll see compelling opportunities across our Sunbelt footprint. However, the downward repricing of assets in the private market is still playing out. Thus, we remain patient, disciplined and continue to prioritize driving cash flow and maintaining a strong balance sheet. We are watching closely, though, and we will be ready. Before turning the call over to Richard, I want to thank our entire team at Cousins, who provides excellent service to our customers. Their dedication, resilience and hard work continue to propel us forward. Thank you.

Richard Hickson, Executive Vice President of Operations

Thanks, Colin. Good morning everyone. I'm pleased to report our operational results this quarter are solid across the board. We also continue to be encouraged by the growing number of companies asking employees to return to the office for the majority of the work week. We believe this trend will continue, as companies increasingly focus on collaboration, employee productivity and overall efficiency. Before reviewing results, I want to talk about WeWork and SVB Financial Group. As you have probably heard, WeWork has stated that it is pursuing lease restructures with all of its landlords, including Cousins. We have four locations with WeWork, totaling 169,000 square feet and representing 1.1% of our annualized rent at share. As of today, WeWork is one month past due on its rental payments to us at two Atlanta locations, 725 Ponce and 120 West Trinity. As a reminder, we are a 20% owner of 120 West Trinity. While it is no guarantee of the eventual outcome, WeWork is current on rent payments at the other two locations. Based on the late status of rental payments at the two locations, we anticipate those two leases will be rejected in the event of a WeWork bankruptcy. The 725 Ponce lease is 46,000 square feet and the 120 West Trinity lease is 33,000 square feet, of which our share is 6,600 square feet. Fortunately, we have meaningful letters of credit in place for both leases. We are confident that the high quality of those two underlying office properties would present us with a range of future alternatives for these tenants. 725 Ponce is one of the most dynamic new office buildings in Atlanta, located directly on the Beltline in East Midtown and is currently 100% leased. Given that, we expect to have an opportunity to either backfill with traditional office users, lease the spaces to a different flexible office operator or even continue working with WeWork in an alternative structure. Regarding SVB Financial Group, our former 205,000 square foot customer at Hayden Ferry I in Phoenix. Consistent with our prior guidance, SVB paid rent through September 30 and vacated the property. Hayden Ferry I has since been taken out of operation as part of a broader redevelopment of the entire Hayden Ferry project. As I have stated before, we believe this redevelopment will redefine the standard of quality in the Tempe submarket and we are excited about the opportunity to backfill Hayden Ferry I, especially given SVB's average expiring rent was below market. It's early, but a number of interesting prospects of various sizes have already toured the space. We anticipate the construction component of this overall redevelopment project will wrap up by the end of 2024. Now for our operating results. Our total office portfolio weighted average occupancy and end-of-period lease percentage both increased 0.3% this quarter to 88% and 91.1%, respectively. These represent our highest occupancy and lease percentage levels since the end of 2021. Despite national office leasing volume declining amid continued economic uncertainty, our team was able to deliver our highest quarterly leasing volume of 2023. In the third quarter, we completed 32 office leasings, totaling 548,000 square feet with a weighted average lease term of 8.6 years. 20 of those were new and expansion leases and leases over 10,000 square feet represented over 80% of our total activity. Our higher volume this quarter included two important sizable long-term renewals. One for 121,000 square feet at 3348 Peachtree in Atlanta and another for 112,000 square feet at Corporate Center in Tampa. The latter was a somewhat early renewal with that customer previously due to expire in early 2025. With this quarter's leasing activity, we now only have 15.1% of our annual contractual rent expiring through the end of 2025, including only 5.6% in 2024. Further, no more than 10% of our annual contractual rent expires in any given calendar year through 2030. We're pleased with our lease expiration profile and the stability it should provide our operating portfolio in the near term. Average net rent this quarter came in at $33.94, which was sequentially lower, but substantially in line with the full year 2022. However, average leasing concessions, defined as the sum of free rent and tenant improvements were also lower at $7.57, about 9% below our last four quarter run rate. As a result, average net effective rent remained strong at $23.77, only about 2% below our last four quarter run rate. Lastly, second-generation net rent growth improved this quarter, coming in at a strong 9.8% on a cash basis. We also saw cash net rent grow in every market this quarter. Again, these results are solid across the board. Now for a quick update on our leasing pipeline. Our late-stage leasing pipeline consisting of leases currently in negotiation sits in line with last quarter at approximately 615,000 square feet. As a reminder, our late-stage pipeline remains almost double what it was at the beginning of 2023. We also continue to be pleased with our medium and early-stage pipelines, with overall tour activity up again relative to the prior quarter. As we look across the Sun Belt, we see firsthand that our portfolio at the highest quality office buildings that provide occupants with a better lifestyle while work continues to outperform. This is very evident in Atlanta. As JLL has noted, in Atlanta, assets built since 2010 have absorbed 5.1 million square feet of space over the last three years while assets built prior to 2010 saw over 12.2 million square feet of negative absorption. In our Atlanta portfolio this quarter, we signed 257,000 square feet of leases with over 80% of the activity in Midtown and Buckhead. Further, 49% of our leases signed in Atlanta this quarter were new and expansion leases. Our recently redeveloped Promenade campus in Midtown continues to see strong activity with over 219,000 square feet of leases signed there year-to-date. I'm also excited to report that this quarter, we signed a 25,000 square foot expansion with Snowflake at Terminus 200 in Buckhead and that we are also in lease negotiations for 57,000 square feet of new occupancy at 3350 Peachtree in Buckhead. The latter is a nice validation for another one of our recently redeveloped properties. In Nashville, we remain encouraged by the office and retail interest in our new half mixed-use development. While no new leases were signed this quarter, we have almost 50,000 square feet of leases in negotiation, of which 49,000 square feet is office. In addition, we continue to have a robust prospect list with over 140,000 square feet of active proposals currently outstanding. The momentum at this project continues with exciting retail announcements on the horizon and the apartments set to open early next summer. Finally, I want to reiterate that our Austin portfolio is very well-positioned to weather the near-term supply challenges coming into view in that market. At the end of the third quarter, our Austin portfolio was 94.6% leased with relatively little availability to lease and no material near-term expirations and enjoying 5.9 years of weighted average lease term. Our Austin team signed 45,000 square feet of leases this quarter, rolling up cash net rents by 24.9%. Before handing it off to Greg, I want to thank our best-in-class operations team for the great work they do every day. Each of you play a truly critical role in our continued success.

Gregg Adzema, Chief Financial Officer

Thanks, Richard. Good morning, everyone. I'll begin my remarks by providing a brief overview of our results, as well as some details on our same-property performance. Then I'll move on to our development pipeline, followed by a quick discussion of our balance sheet, before closing my remarks with an update to our earnings outlook for the balance of 2023. As Colin stated upfront, our third quarter earnings were solid, and the operating economics behind them remain very strong. Second-generation cash, cash leasing spreads were positive for the 38th straight quarter. That's over nine years of uninterrupted rent growth. Leasing velocity accelerated and same-property year-over-year cash NOI increased. It was also a very clean quarter. The only item of note was a non-core land sale in Atlanta for $4.3 million that generated a gain of approximately $0.5 million. Before discussing same-property numbers, I wanted to take a moment to step back from this quarter's results and look at our performance since the onset of COVID. While FFO has been flat, it was $0.64 per share in the second quarter of 2020, excluding Norfolk Southern fees, compared to $0.65 per share this quarter. Quarterly AOI has actually steadily increased over this period by $18 million or 15%. So why hasn't FFO gone up as well? The answer is higher interest expense. I'd point this out to highlight the underlying cash flow growth from our properties over the past three years. We've driven cash flow through increased rents and the completion and lease-up of new developments and redevelopments. As Colin pointed out earlier, trophy lifestyle office buildings in the Sun Belt continue to perform well, which is often lost in the negative headlines around the office industry in general. Moving to our same-property performance. Cash NOI increased 4.6% during the third quarter compared to last year. Cash revenues increased 60 basis points, while expenses decreased 6%, driven by lower property taxes. In addition to our recurring appeals of tax assessments, our portfolio also benefited this quarter from the well-publicized tax cuts in Texas that are expected to be approved by voters next month and reflected in 2023 tax bills. The majority of our savings was recognized in Austin, which is largely a triple net market and, therefore, lower property taxes reduced both our revenues and our expenses during the quarter. Turning to our development efforts. The current development pipeline is comprised of a 50% interest in Neuhoff in Nashville and 100% of Domain 9 in Austin. Our share of the remaining development costs is $90 million, $55 million of which will be funded by our Neuhoff construction loan, leaving only $35 million to be funded by our operating cash flow. Before moving to our balance sheet, I wanted to take a moment to point out a change we made to the development pipeline report on page 25 in our earnings supplement. Specifically, we've adjusted the definition of stabilization dates to reflect the actual estimated stabilization for each development project. Previously, the stabilization dates reflected the earlier of one year after completion or estimated stabilization. This is a GAAP concept that dictates capitalization policy. In practice, it proved to be confusing for many investors since the one-year deadline typically came before actual stabilization. Hopefully, this new disclosure is helpful. To be clear, we've not changed the estimated stabilization dates on our developments in progress. We have simply improved the disclosure around these dates. Looking at our balance sheet, net debt to EBITDA is an industry-leading five times. Our liquidity position remains strong with only $144.5 million outstanding on our $1 billion unsecured credit facility. And our debt maturity schedule is well-laddered with no remaining maturities in 2023. Looking at 2024 and beyond, our debt maturity schedule has three pieces of debt with extension options. First, we have a $350 million term loan with an initial maturity in August of 2024 that has four to six month extensions. Second, we have a $400 million term loan with an initial maturity in March 2025 that has four six-month extensions as well. And third, our Neuhoff construction loan has an initial maturity in September 2025 and has a single one-year extension option. When taking these three extensions into account, our next significant debt maturity is not until July of 2025. Our debt maturity schedule is laid out, including all extension options on page 28 of our financial segment. I'll close by updating our 2023 earnings guidance. We currently anticipate full year 2023 FFO between $2.60 and $2.64 per share with a midpoint of $2.62 per share. This is up from our previous midpoint of $2.61 and represents the third quarter in a row that we've increased the midpoint of our FFO guidance. No property acquisitions, property dispositions or development starts are included in this guidance. The increase is primarily driven by two items. First, as I outlined earlier in the call, we have reduced our property tax assumptions for the year. Second, we've included the gain on land recorded during the third quarter in our annual numbers. Guidance does not include any impact from our four WeWork places. As Richard outlined earlier, we have assumed two leases will be rejected in a potential bankruptcy and two leases will survive. We have letters of credit for the two rejected leases that cover all balance sheet exposure and lost revenue for the remainder of the year. As with any potential bankruptcy, things are fluid and they can change quickly. If our assumptions concerning WeWork materially change, we will provide a timely update. Guidance also does not include any payment of our unsecured claim in the SVB bankruptcy case, which we currently estimate to be approximately $10 million. The exact amount and timing of recovery on this claim is not yet known, but unsecured SVB bonds are currently trading between $0.55 and $0.60 on the dollar. So we do anticipate there will eventually be significant value in this claim. Bottom line, our third quarter results were solid. Our strong leverage and liquidity position remains intact, and we are raising FFO guidance. With that, let me turn the call back over to the operator for your questions.

Blaine Heck, Analyst

Great. Thanks. Good morning. Richard, your detail on each of the markets is very helpful. But I guess just taking a step back, can you talk a little bit more generally about which markets in your portfolio you'd say are showing kind of the most ability from an occupancy and rent standpoint and which might be weaker or weakening and maybe some of the reasons for the relative strength or weakness?

Richard Hickson, Executive Vice President of Operations

Sure. Yes. Good morning. So I think my answer is very similar to what we talked about last quarter. I think all of our markets have some positive dynamics in play, but there are competing dynamics as well with rising interest rates and then people returning to work. So a lot of undercurrents. But I continue to point out that Atlanta has been very healthy and strong for us for all of 2023. We executed a lot of leasing volume for its size in Tampa and continue to feel like Tampa is displaying as much as any market the bifurcation between quality and kind of everything else. So the flight to quality dynamic there is very much in play. But I'd say the same thing for Phoenix as well. We've had really encouraging tour activity there and conversion to leasing activity. So have positive things to say about every market. Austin, obviously, we've called out in the past and continue to flag the fact that there are supply challenges. And our volume has not been as strong there this year. But at the same time, we don't have a lot of vacancy available to lease. We're in a very good position with a lot of stability. So we can weather the kind of cyclical dynamics there very well.

Blaine Heck, Analyst

Great. That's really helpful. And then, Colin, I understand there are very few transactions to point to in the investment sales market. But can you talk about how your internal return hurdles on new investments have changed with the increase in capital cost and whether or not there are any interesting opportunities that might be emerging on the acquisition side of things?

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Well, I would definitely say our return expectations have gone up. I think it's still too early to precisely define our specific kind of cap rate or unlevered IRR, because the market continues to be so fluid. And I think until there's some stability putting aside the actual nominal kind of interest rate until there's some stability in terms of the direction of rates, I think that will continue to be fluid. But we are starting to see an uptick in opportunities that we are tracking. I think in many cases, it's still a bit early to insert ourselves in those opportunities because there are, I'd say, capital structure dynamics that are still playing out between, in many cases, owners and lenders or mes-lenders. But we are tracking a number of situations that are going to require outside capital. And I think it could be interesting opportunities, but we need to be patient and wait for the right time.

Blaine Heck, Analyst

Great. That's helpful. Thanks, guys.

Operator, Operator

Our next question will come from Jay Poskitt with Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.

Jay Poskitt, Analyst

Hi. Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. I was wondering if you could break down the leasing pipeline just between new and renewals and kind of how that breakdown has changed over the past couple of quarters?

Gregg Adzema, Chief Financial Officer

Sure, well, this quarter we executed 35% of our activity as new and expansion. If you look to the late stage leasing pipeline, that's new and expansion will kind of pop up back to the levels we've seen prior to this quarter, so kind of a little over 50%.

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

And Jay, it's Colin. Those numbers will fluctuate quarter-to-quarter. And really what drives that is going to be kind of the expiration schedule. Based on that expiration schedule, that's really going to drive what our renewal activity looks like. And so, it will fluctuate quarter-to-quarter.

Jay Poskitt, Analyst

Great. Thank you. I know that your expirations in 2024 are relatively muted. Do you have any large known move outs as we look ahead to next year?

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Yeah. Next year we have a low percentage of expirations and we also have very few large expirations. And so looking forward to next year, we really just have one customer within the portfolio that's over 100,000 square feet, and that would be accruent at Domain 4. We talked about that in past quarters. Our expectation there is that they're likely to significantly downsize or leave, and again, it's a little over 100,000 square feet in August of 2024. But just to point out, and I think many of you all have toured Domain 4, that's one of the original vintage single-story buildings in the domain that sits directly on Rock Rose, the main retail and entertainment avenue within the domain and it's arguably the best land site that we have in the domain. And so it ultimately might be more valuable to us as land than trying to aggressively renew that space, at least for the long term. Perhaps a short-term lease would be in the cards, but it's a terrific land site for us. Outside of that, the only other significant expiration that we have next year is NASCAR media, which is about 77,000 square feet that expires in the end of February next year. Again, we've talked about this many times in past quarters. NASCAR did a long-term renewal for some space at our 550 South project. This 77,000 is going to be relocated into a new facility that they're building at the racetrack. And so this was originally scheduled to expire this year. They extended it into next year to line that up with the delivery of their new media center. And so those are really it for next year.

Jay Poskitt, Analyst

Great. Thanks. That’s all for me.

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Yes.

Operator, Operator

Our next question will come from Upal Rana with KeyBanc. Please go ahead.

Upal Rana, Analyst

Hi. Thank you for taking the question. So, you highlighted the realty tax savings in your prepared remarks. Can you maybe break that down by markets where you're seeing that? And maybe any potential other cost reduction plans that you're working on that can help support cash flow either this year and next year?

Gregg Adzema, Chief Financial Officer

Sure. Upal, it's Greg. The vast majority of our property tax savings this quarter were in Texas and the vast majority of what we own in Texas is in Austin. So, the savings were primarily in Austin. It hasn't been approved, but it will be overwhelmingly approved by voters here in a couple of weeks. Once that happens, it kind of resets the bar. And so as we do with any accrual we caught up three quarters to the first nine months of the year, this quarter. So, you saw kind of nine months of an accrual adjustment pushed into a three-month reporting period. In the fourth quarter, it will just be a one-month reporting period. So, we'll still enjoy some savings, but it won't be quite as large as it was this quarter. And then we reset the bar in Texas going forward. So, it's a favorable kind of outcome that has legs moving forward for us. We haven't seen anything large like that in any of our other markets, statewide or market-wide adjustment to kind of the property millage rate or property tax policy in general. But you take a step back and we all realize what's happening to office values here. So, we should be successful just in general, on appeals of property tax assessments going forward. So, there are certainly some headwinds on the expense side for office owners, just general inflation as well as people returning to the office. But on the property tax side, I don't think we're going to have those same headwinds.

Upal Rana, Analyst

Okay, great. Thank you. So, for my next question, I mean, you kind of highlighted all your strong balance sheet and your strong liquidity. Are you still going to focus on liquidity? Or do you think that maybe you can start putting some of that to work maybe in buybacks or some other places?

Gregg Adzema, Chief Financial Officer

Yes, it's Greg again. As Colin talked about just a few minutes ago, we value our liquidity at the moment. We've always maintained liquidity. And these are the periods of the cycle where it has tremendous value. And so we're going to be patient and disciplined before we deploy it. There will be opportunities to deploy it, but we're going to be very thoughtful and treat it as a competitive advantage because it is one. And so we'll look at each opportunity as they arrive. Things are starting to kind of come over the threshold. The pace is increasing slightly, and we're optimistic going forward that we'll have a chance to do something with that liquidity.

Operator, Operator

Our next question will come from Camille Bonnel with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Camille Bonnel, Analyst

So, a few follow-up questions on the balance sheet. First, more generally in today's market, where do you see the most attractive places to raise capital?

Gregg Adzema, Chief Financial Officer

It depends on the type of capital we're discussing. Currently, equity capital is priced at levels that we and other office REITs find unhelpful, so raising equity right now is not advisable. On the debt side, if you have the right assets, mortgages are available, although the loan-to-value ratios are lower and the spreads are higher than in the past. However, there is cost-effective debt for suitable office properties. Unsecured debt, whether through product placements or investment-grade bonds, tends to be more expensive, and while liquidity has been limited, there has been some activity in these areas. As for alternative sources of liquidity like joint ventures, it has become more challenging compared to the past, with limited liquidity present. Typical joint venture partners have stepped back from the office market, as they evaluate pricing and wait for liquidity to return. They are not likely to take the lead in this situation and will be observing developments closely.

Camille Bonnel, Analyst

That's helpful. And can you put some numbers around where you think spreads are today, if you try to raise secured or unsecured debt?

Gregg Adzema, Chief Financial Officer

Yes, it varies. It’s dynamic. However, you can observe that REIT office and unsecured bonds do trade daily, although not in large volumes. The current spreads indicate that higher investment-grade office unsecured bonds are trading in the range of the high 200s to low 300s over the 10-year spread. For secured debt, the trading might be about 50 to 75 basis points tighter than that.

Camille Bonnel, Analyst

I appreciate the color. And finally, what gives you comfort to underwrite redevelopment projects like Hayden Ferry or potentially Domain 4 when there are such high cost barriers and unknowns around where rents will ultimately pencil out?

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Camille, it's Colin. I think we've got a lot of confidence in Hayden Ferry and a lot of history in Hayden Ferry. And we've also seen some very recent successes with our redevelopment projects, certainly here in Atlanta to Promenade executed similar redevelopments and solid demand and the rate that customers were willing to pay for premier lifestyle type office properties. And then looking out specifically to Tempe, we just executed a repositioning of our Tempe Gateway project, which is effectively across the street from Hayden Ferry. And again, we're able to see the types of rents that we were able to achieve and are achieving at Tempe Gateway, and that gives us direct visibility into how we're underwriting the repositioning of Hayden Ferry.

Camille Bonnel, Analyst

Thank you for taking my questions.

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Thanks, Camille.

Operator, Operator

Our next question will come from Vikram Malhotra with Mizuho. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Analyst, Unidentified Analyst

Hi. This is George on for Vikram. What are you seeing on the sublease space? And can you comment on any recent impact from work-from-home dynamics? And how this has changed over the last six months?

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Sure. The sublease activity in our markets in the Sun Belt has remained largely flat in the third quarter compared to the second quarter. We haven't observed an increase in sublease availability, and in some regions, we've actually seen a decrease. This decline is due to some of that sublease space being leased and, in some cases, customers removing that space from the market as they reassess their plans. Regarding the work-from-home trends you mentioned, a year ago, those were a significant concern for us, alongside the cyclical economic risks. However, as we look at the situation today, we are much less worried about the secular risks associated with remote work and its effects on premium lifestyle office spaces in the Sun Belt. We're observing this in the news as well. For instance, a Fortune 500 company in Atlanta, which had not returned to work, recently announced a return of three days a week. Another Fortune 500 company in Atlanta that had been operating three days now plans to move to four days. It seems that many CEOs agree that for their employees, particularly those in high-quality office buildings, a trend towards a four-day work week is likely. I hear this frequently, so we are considerably less concerned about this issue now.

Unidentified Analyst, Unidentified Analyst

Thanks. And just a last quick one for me. Can you talk about assets that you would like to sell? And where do you see corporates today and I guess, over the next six to 12 months?

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

There isn't much data available on current cap rates. The market is still evolving, and investors are seeking clarity on interest rate trends before making significant decisions. Once we achieve stability, I expect investors will start to engage more actively. It's important to note that many investors will look to the track record of Cousins Properties during the pandemic. As Greg mentioned earlier, we've increased our net operating income by 15% since the pandemic began, all while maintaining a strong balance sheet. This demonstrates the resilience and potential growth of lifestyle office properties in the Sun Belt, suggesting that investor interest will return and be concentrated on prime assets in top markets. Until then, we’re not rushing to sell properties. Our balance sheet is strong, and we don't need immediate liquidity. Therefore, we remain patient regarding both acquisitions and dispositions for now.

Unidentified Analyst, Unidentified Analyst

All right. Thank you so much for taking my questions.

Operator, Operator

Our next question will come from Anthony Powell with Barclays. Please go ahead.

Anthony Powell, Analyst

Hi, good morning. A question on tenant improvements. We always hear stories about TI growing in a lot of coastal markets and the cost of leasing space increasing. It doesn't seem to be a case in your market. So maybe you can talk about TI requirements in your markets and how those have evolved in the past few quarters.

Richard Hickson, Executive Vice President of Operations

Sure. We continue to experience some pressure from inflation in construction costs. However, when we consider tenant improvements and their impact on our results, these are allowances we're providing and do not fully represent the total project costs. They are more of a concession and a negotiation involved in each deal. We believe we have effectively managed this, as evidenced by our results. You can see that our net effective rents have improved over time. In areas where we faced higher tenant improvement costs to secure leases, we have successfully sought out higher rates to balance that.

Anthony Powell, Analyst

Got it. Thanks. So maybe regarding WeWork, have you had discussions with them about possibly restructuring some of these leases and exiting earlier to facilitate re-leasing the space? Or is this related to that to begin with?

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Could you repeat the question, Anthony?

Anthony Powell, Analyst

Yes, WeWork. Have you started to have discussions with them about potentially reworking the leases? Or is it too early for that process to start?

Richard Hickson, Executive Vice President of Operations

This is Richard again. We are under a nondisclosure agreement about the proceedings and what's going on with WeWork. But at a higher level, yes, we are in dialogue there, an important partner of ours, have been for many years. And as we mentioned earlier, it's a very fluid situation. It is potentially a bankruptcy situation and a lot can happen. But we are speaking and exploring a lot of different alternatives.

Anthony Powell, Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

Operator, Operator

And our next question will come from Peter Abramowitz with Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Peter Abramowitz, Analyst

Thank you. I appreciate the comments and the color on 3350. Just wondering if you could talk about two of the other buildings in your portfolio with significant vacancies. Could you talk about activity at North Park as well as 111 Congress? You have some large vacancies there? Just how is the interest in those spaces and any potential contribution for 2024?

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Yes. Good morning. It's Colin. I would say, looking at those two properties, North Park has been a bit more of a challenge for us. It is a more suburban property in the central perimeter here in Atlanta. And that market has been slower to recover its leasing velocity than some of the more urban markets. North Park over the long term has some great things going for it. Its sits right on public transportation. 111 Congress is in Austin, again, our urban markets have seen more activity. 111 is a great property with a major food hall on campus, and that's a property that we believe when we find the right customer, we'll hopefully be able to drive some occupancy there sooner than later. And I think likely ahead of North Park.

Peter Abramowitz, Analyst

Got it. That's helpful. And then just a higher-level question. A lot of your peers this quarter have talked about just slower decision making from tenants and generally longer deal cycles. Just wanted to see if you had any color on whether you had a similar experience if you're seeing that in the portfolio, or if that hasn't really been the case for you?

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

So we've got some competing forces at play. And I think higher interest rates are at the center of all of those competing forces. And I'd say, I'd characterize this on the negative side that in some instances, higher interest rates are forcing companies to become more efficient. And, therefore, they are scrutinizing headcount, G&A and real estate spend very, very carefully. At the same time, we always say here at Cousins as the Fed raises interest rates, they're also driving employees back to work. And I think we're seeing some instances and there's some active deals that Richard has alluded to that are directly tied to as companies focus on the bottom line and profits, they want their people back in greater force and in some instances, are realizing they don't have enough space. And so we are seeing a push and a pull there. And our belief is, regardless, with the quality of our portfolio and our ability to fund leasing costs, that we're going to work really hard to gain as much of that market share as we can.

Peter Abramowitz, Analyst

Got it. That's all for me. Thank you.

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Thank you.

Operator, Operator

And our next question will come from Dylan Burzinski with Green Street. Please go ahead.

Dylan Burzinski, Analyst

Good morning guys, and thanks for taking the question. Apologies if I missed it as I joined late, but just curious, given the strong leasing activity year-to-date and minimal lease expirations next year, would you guys say it's fair to say that occupancy at the portfolio level has maybe bottomed here?

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

We hope so. And again, as you mentioned, we have modest expirations next year, no significant other than accruent large known move-outs. So again, we'll have to monitor the evolving situation with WeWork. But WeWork aside, our hope is certainly, I'd say our goal as a company is certainly to end 2024 occupancy higher than it is at the end of 2023. And there could be some modest fluctuations positive and negative quarter-to-quarter. But that certainly is a goal.

Dylan Burzinski, Analyst

And then I guess just one on inbound activity from out-of-market tenants. Have you guys seen that slowdown here more recently relative to the level that we saw coming into the pandemic?

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Well, I would say it's reverting back to where it was prior to the pandemic. And again, this has been a trend that's been underway for 10 to 20 years. And it's been up into the right. I think for all the obvious reasons that we know, it was certainly supercharged during the pandemic, and I think we'll see that likely to revert back to the mean. I think in the immediate near-term, I'd say the biggest challenge to some of the relocations is just the higher cost of residential mortgages. And so I think kind of the full-scale relocations of the company might slow until that normalizes. But what we are seeing a lot of companies do is rather than relocate employees, they are moving or shifting their growth to the Sun Belt and hiring within markets, which mitigates that. So I'd say, I think you're likely to see continued activity on expanding hubs and perhaps more kind of near-term, a more near-term slowdown in full-scale relocations.

Dylan Burzinski, Analyst

Great. Thanks, guys.

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Thanks, Dylan.

Operator, Operator

And our next question will come from John Kim with BMO. Please go ahead.

John Kim, Analyst

Thank you. On WeWork, is there anything you could share on the characteristics, whether it's occupancy or profitability between the two locations that they remain current on rent versus noncurrent?

Richard Hickson, Executive Vice President of Operations

Yes. Unfortunately, we are under an NDA, so we can't share specifics about the performance of each location at this time.

John Kim, Analyst

Okay. And I'm just wondering, like what gives you confidence that the two remaining current leases will still continue to pay rent on that?

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Again, I think that will be fluid. However, looking at what WeWork is doing is certainly guiding us at the moment. We own the properties, so we can observe who is coming and going, and we notice a lot of physical activity in the spaces. Our current perspective is based on their decision to pay rent on two locations and not pay rent on the other two.

John Kim, Analyst

Got it. Okay. On NCR, I know last quarter, you provided an update on the lease and the company subleasing some of that space. I was wondering if you could provide a further update to that? And if there's any chance to give that some of that space back to you?

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

So the NCR did complete their corporate spin-off. So today, it is to there are two separately traded public companies. Our lease, our master lease is still with kind of our original lessor one of those two public companies. And as you mentioned, they have put some of the space on the sublease market as they've split into two companies and are attempting to become more efficient. But there is no ultimate change in our lease, and they have no rights to give any space back. They certainly have the right to sublease space. And I think it's a potential that we'll engage with them in some of those conversations, if an interesting opportunity comes along for our shareholders to go direct with a new long-term tenant customer in some of that space. And I think they already have some actually meaningful prospects for that space. And so we'll continue to stay in touch with them. And if there's a win-win solution for them and our shareholders, we'll certainly engage.

John Kim, Analyst

Final question for Greg. On the improved disclosure on the stabilization periods on developments, can you just remind us on your capitalized interest policy, if you're required to expense the interest one-year after completion? Or are there some ways that you could extend that capitalized interest period?

Gregg Adzema, Chief Financial Officer

No, it's a drop that we typically capitalize interest on unoccupied space and no greater than one year after completion.

John Kim, Analyst

Got it. Okay. Thank you.

Gregg Adzema, Chief Financial Officer

Thank you, John.

Operator, Operator

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the conference back over to Colin Connolly for any closing remarks.

Colin Connolly, President and CEO

Thank you for your time this morning and your interest in Cousins Properties. We will look forward to hopefully seeing many of you out in NAREIT in a few weeks. Have a great weekend.

Operator, Operator

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect your lines.