Earnings Call Transcript - EMBJ Q3 2025

Guilherme Paiva, Head of Investor Relations

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. This conference is being recorded and is for the exclusive use of attendees. It cannot be reproduced or shared without permission from Embraer. The call will be in English, but I would like to say a brief message in Portuguese. My name is Gui Paiva, and I am the Head of Investor Relations, M&A, and Venture Capital for Embraer. I welcome you to our third quarter earnings conference call. The figures presented here include non-GAAP financial information to assist investors in reconciling Eve's financial information with GAAP standards and Embraer's IFRS. We remind you that Eve's results will be discussed in a separate company call. All figures are provided in U.S. dollars, which is our functional currency. This call may contain forward-looking statements based on Embraer's expectations and market trends. These statements involve uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ. The company does not commit to updating any forward-looking statements, except where required by law. For more detailed financial information, we encourage you to review the filings made by the company with Brazilian financial authorities. The participants on this call include Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO of Embraer; Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer; Pau Cesar Souza, Corporate Communications Manager; and myself. The call will be divided into three parts. First, management will present the Q3 results. Then, we will have a Q&A session only for investors. Finally, we will conduct a dedicated Q&A session for the press. I am pleased to now hand over the call to our President and CEO, Francisco Gomes Neto. Please proceed, Francisco.

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

Thank you, Gui, and good morning, everyone. It's a pleasure to be here with you to share Embraer's third quarter 2025 results. Embraer is currently experiencing a highly positive phase, a strong indication that our strategy driven by efficiency and innovation is delivering solid results and effectively supporting our sustainable growth. In Commercial Aviation, highlights include new orders for Avelo for 50 E195-E2s plus 50 options and LATAM for 24 E195-E2s plus 50 options. These achievements have increased the division's backlog to $15.2 billion with an impressive 2.7:1 book-to-bill ratio. In Executive Aviation, we achieved an all-time high for third quarter revenues, reaching approximately $580 million. We also celebrated a historic milestone, the delivery of our 2,000th business jet, marking a record for year-to-date deliveries. Our backlog in Executive Aviation now stands at $7.3 billion, supported by a robust 2.4:1 book-to-bill ratio, reflecting continued strong demand for our aircraft. In Defense & Security, we continue to reinforce our global presence. Portugal confirmed the purchase of its sixth KC-390, including additional 10 new options to support future European acquisitions. We also signed new agreements for the A-29 Super Tucano with Panama and Sierra Nevada in the U.S., reinforcing the aircraft's relevance and versatility. The division closed the quarter with a $3.9 billion backlog and 1.3:1 book-to-bill ratio. Our Services & Support business maintained its accelerated growth path with expanding capabilities. We signed a new maintenance agreement with CommuteAir and launched Starlink connectivity solutions for Praetor and Legacy operators. As a result, the business unit finished the quarter with a $4.9 billion backlog and a 1.8:1 book-to-bill ratio. At Embraer, continuous improvement is more than a process; it is a mindset. We successfully completed more than 800 Kaizen projects over the past 12 months. And now by combining our lean culture with AI tools, we are moving forward more rapidly in achieving productivity gains. Our production level initiatives and the implementation of our perfect station concept led to a 16% increase in aircraft deliveries this year. From 2026 onwards, we expect even greater production stability in all product lines. The implementation of our zero-defect methodology reduced our cost of poor quality by 12%. Another initiative that has been delivering significant results is the production lead time reduction. We have achieved important improvements such as reducing the production time of Praetor's by 40%, KC-390 by 33%, and E-Jets by 27% compared to 2021 levels; more production with lower work in progress. We made significant progress with new and expanded facilities at key locations in the United States and Brazil, including new hangars, painting booths, and final assembly areas. These investments are designed to enable higher production volumes and faster deliveries, fully aligned with our growth strategy. At the same time, we are transforming our supply chain through supply chain management 2.0, a comprehensive initiative that integrates digital technologies, proactive risk management, and the deployment of artificial intelligence for smarter planning and forecasting. These efforts have already started to pay off. Aircraft deliveries increased by 16% and average shortage decreased by 25% compared to last year. I will now move on to operational results by segment. All figures are based on year-on-year comparisons. In Commercial Aviation, revenues increased a significant 31% due to a better product mix and higher volumes and prices. Adjusted EBIT margin improved from minus 4.8% to plus 1.3%, supported by operating leverage and lower other operating expenses. In Executive Aviation, revenues increased 4%, helped by higher prices. Adjusted EBIT margin decreased 4.2 percentage points because of product mix, U.S. import tariffs, and higher costs. Moving to Defense & Security, revenues grew 27% due to higher KC-390 volumes and a one-off positive contract-related adjustment. Adjusted EBIT margin improved from 7.2% to 12.9% as a result of operating leverage and client mix. In Services and Support, revenues rose 16%, driven by higher volumes and the ramp-up of the OGMA GTF engine shop. Adjusted EBIT margin decreased 5 percentage points because of services and materials delays. Before I conclude, I'd like to share a brief update on Eve's steady progress. The first full-scale engineering prototype test flight is planned for late 2025, early 2026. With that, I will now hand it over to Antonio to walk us through the key financial highlights of the quarter.

Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer

Thank you, Francisco. Good morning, and good afternoon to everyone. Turning to the quarter, all my comments will be based on year-over-year comparisons unless noted. Before we dive into our financial results for the third quarter of 2025, I'd like to reiterate our 2025 guidance. We expect to deliver between 77 and 85 aircraft in Commercial Aviation and 145 and 155 in Executive Aviation from an operational perspective. We anticipate achieving revenues between $7 billion and $7.5 billion, an adjusted EBIT margin of 7.5% to 8.3%, and more than $200 million in adjusted free cash flow from a financial perspective. This forecast may seem conservative at first glance, but it reflects the supply chain risks we still face in Q4. That said, I would like to reinforce our estimates, reflecting our confidence in our operational progress and the resilience of our business model. We remain comfortable with our outlook and are confident that we are on track to meet our full-year guidance. Now, let's take a look at our financial results for the quarter. In the third quarter of 2025, Embraer delivered 62 aircraft: 20 commercial jets, 41 executive jets, and 1 KC-390 military plane. This marks a 5% increase compared to the same period last year, with Commercial Aviation deliveries up 25% year-over-year and Executive Aviation stable. More importantly, for the first nine months, we have delivered 46 commercial jets, representing 57% of the midpoint of our guidance and 2 percentage points above our 5-year average for this period. In Executive Aviation, we delivered 102 executive jets, or 68% of the midpoint of our guidance, which is 11 percentage points higher than the 57% average from the past 5 years, demonstrating our strong execution. Our company-wide backlog reached $31.3 billion during the quarter, a remarkable 38% increase, exceeding our previous historical record. Executive Aviation and Service & Support led with backlogs up 65% and 40%, respectively, followed by Commercial Aviation up 37%, and Defense & Security up 8%. I would like to highlight the significant volume of purchase options currently held by our customers, totaling roughly $20 billion. These are not firm orders yet, but they present substantial upside potential for our backlog in the coming years, possibly increasing towards $50 billion. Our top line approached $2 billion, reflecting an 18% increase. From a business perspective, the contributions appear well balanced, with Commercial and Executive Aviation each accounting for approximately 30%, followed by Service and Support with 25% and Defense & Security with 14%. In the third quarter of 2025, we generated $236 million in adjusted EBITDA with an 11.8% margin. Adjusted EBIT for the quarter was $172 million with an 8.6% margin, compared to $147 million or an 8.7% margin in the third quarter of 2024, excluding the one-time impact of the Boeing agreement, which boosted the adjusted margin by about 900 basis points. For the first nine months of the year, the adjusted EBIT margin stands at 8.6%, a substantial improvement over the 2.9% average of the last 5 years. However, we still anticipate a significant impact from U.S. import tariffs, which should weigh on our Q4 margin, along with additional costs associated with our return to office initiative. Moving on, Embraer generated $300 million in adjusted free cash flow in the third quarter of 2025, primarily supported by operating activities, $224 million in EBITDA, and lower accounts receivable. Looking at our investments, excluding Eve, we allocated a total of $99 million during the quarter, slightly lower than last year. This includes $39 million in CapEx, $37 million in additions to intangibles, $10 million in the pool program to support new contracts, and $13 million in research. Year-to-date, research investments have reached $33 million, or 12% of the $284 million in total investment, which focuses on sustainable growth and innovation. I would like to explain the financial bridge from our reported EBIT to both reported and adjusted net income. We began the quarter with nearly $160 million in EBIT. After accounting for $53 million in net financial expenses, $22 million in tax credits, and $12 million in minority interest, our reported net income reached $117 million. After adjusting for extraordinary items, including $30 million in deferred taxes and $32 million from Eve's results, we arrived at $54 million in adjusted net income. Our adjusted margin for the quarter was 2.7%, a significant decline from 13.1% last year. This $167 million decrease was largely driven by the one-time positive impact of $150 million from the Boeing agreement recorded last year, in addition to less favorable net financial results. Regarding earnings per share, we have observed solid sequential improvement over the past few years. Our EPS reached $1.7 per ADS over the past 12 months, significantly higher than the negative $0.20 reported in 2021. Now, I'd like to discuss our liquidity position. Embraer's stand-alone net debt decreased by $646 million to only $439 million in the third quarter of 2025, as the company continued to implement its debt liability strategy and reduce its financial gearing. We ended the quarter with a net debt-to-EBITDA ratio of only 0.5x, excluding Eve, marking a significant improvement from 1.3x a year ago. It is important to note that the increase in leverage compared to year-end 2024 is temporary due to seasonal business factors. We expect to finish the year in a net cash position. Our liability management strategy focuses on extending debt duration and reducing our cost of debt. The average loan maturity is currently 5.9 years, with 96% of our debt in long-term contracts. To wrap up, I want to remind you that we announced a new liability management initiative in the third quarter of 2025, which will conclude in November. The company issued a $1 billion long-term 12-year bond at a 5.4% coupon and will repurchase a total of $809 million from bonds maturing in 2028 and 2030. We will share an updated debt maturity profile and average cost of debt with our full-year financials. Before I end, I want to thank our shareholders for their trust and highlight recent developments in our shareholder remuneration initiatives. We have officially updated our ticker symbol to EMBJ, representing Embraer Jets, to better align with the company's current strategy and future vision. Embraer declared nearly BRL 210 million in interest on equity over the past two quarters, translating to BRL 0.28 per share for a 0.35% dividend yield. This amount may be complemented by a top-up dividend if necessary to meet the minimum 25% net income distribution required by Brazilian corporate law. The full amount will be paid in a single installment after our 2026 Annual Shareholders Meeting. Now, I will hand it back to Francisco for his final remarks. Thank you very much.

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

Thank you, Antonio. I'd like to take a moment to reflect on our recent key achievements and share a few final thoughts. In Commercial Aviation, strong E1 sales and the continued consolidation of the E2 platform marked our best sales year yet. Executive Aviation continues to see robust demand across its entire portfolio, reflecting the strength of our products and customer relationships. In Defense & Security, the KC-390 is gaining traction in key global campaigns, including India and NATO, with Sweden's recent order reinforcing its growing international relevance. Meanwhile, Services & Support continues to expand, highlighted by the groundbreaking of a new MRO facility in the U.S., further strengthening our global footprint. Looking forward, we expect substantial midterm growth while strategically investing in new technologies to prepare the company for a more ambitious and long-term expansion, always grounded in our culture of safety first and quality always. With that, I would like to move on to the Q&A session.

Operator, Operator

We would like to remind you that this conference is being recorded. The broadcast is meant solely for the participants of this event and cannot be reproduced or retransmitted without the explicit permission of Embraer. Please note that this conference call is being conducted in English with a translation available in Portuguese. Now, I will make a brief announcement for Portuguese speakers. The first question comes from Kristine Liwag with Morgan Stanley.

Kristine Liwag, Analyst

So first, I mean, Antonio, the balance sheet and financial strength of the company is pretty remarkable, especially with what we saw in 2020 with COVID and all the changes. With the net cash position slated for the company by year-end, I was wondering how you guys think about future returns to shareholders, especially if you're not going to build another big R&D cycle. Would you consider share buybacks or increasing dividends? How do we think about returns to shareholders?

Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer

Thanks, Kristine, for the great question. I was expecting this. To be honest, we started to repay or resume dividends at the end of last year, and we are very happy to have been able to do that. We are currently evaluating our capital structure, which is a valid question. We do not have a firm opinion on how to move forward right now, and I do not see any additional dividends at this point. We are already paying 25% of our net income for the year, which is significant for a capital-intensive business. While we do not have a response at this moment, we are considering further actions in this area. For instance, buybacks are currently being discussed, but we do not have a definitive answer yet. However, we are paying close attention to this matter as well.

Kristine Liwag, Analyst

Great. And if I could do a follow-up. A few weeks ago, American Airlines announced that they're retrofitting their E-Jets fleet. And to do the overhead bin, I think you guys are doing the work on that. But I was wondering, since they want to do a full interior refresh, is there an expansion of work scope that you can now address, especially as you've increased your services offering? Are you doing the complete retrofit for American? Or are you only doing portions of it? And how do we think about if other airlines in the U.S. decide to also retrofit their fleet with your more expanded services capability, how do you think about that market? And could you capture more of that?

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

Thank you for the question, Kristine. This effort is part of our initiative to enhance the E175-E1 aircraft. The initial changes focus on the interior, which includes improvements to the bins, new Recaro seats, modern lighting, and better connectivity. While we do have a program with American Airlines, this upgrade kit is also available for other customers, and we can implement it at our new MRO in Dallas if they are interested.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Marcelo Motta with JPMorgan.

Marcelo Motta, Analyst

My question is regarding the EBIT margin on the Executive segment. I mean you commented about the impact of product mix and higher costs. So just wondering when we look at the component of higher cost, if you think this is more structural, or is it more like a one-off this quarter? And then if you could explain also what helped the Defense EBIT margin, that would be great as well.

Guilherme Paiva, Head of Investor Relations

Marcelo, this is Gui. Thanks for the question. In Executive Aviation, we have seen, like in other businesses, cost inflation. That's something that has been a trend in the industry for the past few years. And we expect that to continue. We have been resilient in protecting our margins in the business, but we will obviously see some fluctuations on a quarter-to-quarter basis. Regarding Defense, there was an impact from higher KC volumes and just the client mix where we had a higher participation of foreign clients.

Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer

And Marcelo, just to complement you in regards to Executive Aviation, please take into account that one year ago, we didn't have tariffs. And they have impacted the Executive Aviation margins; also the tariffs are eating up some 2%, 2.5% of our margin on a comparable basis. I would say that explains the deviation as well.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Lucas Marquiori with BTG Pactual.

Lucas Marquiori, Analyst

My question is just on the one-offs on the margin as well, especially on Commercial Aviation. Just trying to understand what are these tax credits that you mentioned occurred this quarter, particularly to what they relate? And how should we think about, I mean, their recurrence going forward? And also on the Defense as well, what exactly is this one-off contract-related adjustment? Is this a change in the contract of a foreign client that helped on the margin? I mean just trying to kind of clear that out.

Guilherme Paiva, Head of Investor Relations

Lucas, Gui here. Thanks for the question again. So in Commercial Aviation, the tax credits are related to some import parts that we did a study and were able to claim these credits, okay? And on Defense, we reassigned a plane in the production to a different client that was already, let's call it, halfway in its production. So given that it is a percentage of completion, we recalculated the revenues and the profitability of the contract given that it was already halfway through.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from André Mazini with Citi.

André Mazini, Analyst

My question is about the Pratt GTF engines. The A220 from competitor is facing significant problems, with reports indicating that 17% of its fleet is grounded due to the Pratt GTF. We know that the engines differ; the A220 uses the PW1500 while the E2 uses the PW1900. My first question is whether the PW1900 has any issues at all. Secondly, shifting topics, this November, all eyes are on Brazil for the COP and Amazon discussions. I would like to inquire about the SIVAM program, the Amazon surveillance system that your company was involved with around 25 years ago. The aircraft used in that program were Embraer's 145s. Is there any renewal plan for those aircraft, and what is the current status of the Amazon surveillance systems and Embraer's overall involvement?

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

Thanks for your question. To begin with the E2 GTF, the E2 utilizes the third generation of the PW1900G engine, which has undergone several upgrades and improvements. Additionally, the E2 is significantly lighter than other aircraft, resulting in lower demand on the engines. This is why the E2 has been less affected than the competition. Furthermore, the engines continue to improve with new enhancements, leading us to anticipate better performance and durability for the E2's engines in the future, which is beneficial for airlines. Regarding the Amazon program, we currently do not have any projects associated with it. We are collaborating with the Brazilian forces on various initiatives, but not this one to my knowledge.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Andre Ferreira with Bradesco BBI.

Andre Ferreira, Analyst

I have two questions. First, concerning the tax credits in Commercial Aviation, we reported BRL 56 million in the quarter, according to the ITR. I want to confirm if this is entirely from the Commercial Aviation segment, which would indicate that the tax credits contributed approximately 1.5% to EBIT, positively impacting the EBIT margin. The second point is about tariffs. The combined impact from Executive Aviation and Service was, if I'm correct, $17 million, which appears lower than initially expected. However, inventories might help in this case. Do you anticipate a greater impact in the fourth quarter, not only due to seasonality but also on a more comparable basis? That's all from me.

Guilherme Paiva, Head of Investor Relations

Thank you for the question. This is Gui here. Regarding the tax credits, they will be a low single-digit value, so it's less than BRL 56 million. As for the second question about the tariffs, they were $17 million for the quarter and a total of $27 million year-to-date. Initially, we mentioned after the Q1 results that we anticipated around $62 million to $65 million for the full year. This suggests that we still have approximately $35 million to $38 million remaining, but the company has been working hard to lessen its exposure, and we hope to finish the year below the initial amount we indicated. Additionally, the inventory cycle has been a factor thus far.

Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer

Just to add to that, the issue you are asking about is part of our normal operations. We have temporary importation processes, and when changes occur in the supply chain, we receive the necessary credits. There's nothing extraordinary about it; it's simply part of our routine. It seems that some of you might consider it to be unusual.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Gabriel Rezende with Itaú BBA.

Gabriel Rezende, Analyst

I would like to touch on the company's guidance, particularly concerning profitability. I'm curious about the relevance of supply chain risks for the fourth quarter and the impact of U.S. tariffs, which may explain why the company chose not to revise its guidance upwards. Given that you have already achieved a high EBIT margin year-to-date, which exceeds your expectations for the full year, I'm trying to understand which factor is more significant: the possible delivery delays due to supply chain issues or the impact of U.S. tariffs for the fourth quarter?

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

Gabriel, I will answer half of the question, and then Antonio will complement the answer. Well, regarding the supply chain, I mean, the risk for the supply chain in 2025, I mean, is over. I mean we have all the parts we need to assemble the aircraft. Now it's up to us to assemble the aircraft, but we have a concentration of aircraft to be delivered in the next 2 months. That's why we decided to keep the guidance as it is. Again, no risk with the supply chain at this point in time. Now we are working hard to ensure we have a better 2026 in terms of production stability, production level than it was in 2025. About the EBIT, Antonio, do you want to comment?

Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer

Just to complement what Francisco is saying, assuming that we will be able to get the aircraft out of the door, I would say we look more towards the high end than the lower end, I would say. As I mentioned in my first comments, we calculated the risk. You could take 0.3% EBIT margin comparing with the 8.6% we have in the last 9 months. If everything goes well, I would say there's nothing that goes against that we may be able to even surpass the high end of the margin. But we need to deliver. There's a lot of aircraft to be delivered by the end of December just because of it. And please do not forget our guidance was not contemplated the tariffs. It seems to be conservative, but we were able to offset the guidance. We are still there. And more or less, I would say, looking for the high end and the lower end is a remarkable achievement for our company here.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Lucas Laghi with XP Investments.

Lucas Laghi, Analyst

I would like to focus on the Services division. We have been seeing an increase in agnostic revenues and a rise in GTF engines contracts on OGMA. You were very clear during the Investor Day about the potential for this revenue stream. However, could you elaborate on the profitability profile of this division moving forward? Should we expect the margins to be lower or higher considering this shift towards agnostic revenues? I'm looking to understand a bit more about profitability given this new revenue profile. Specifically regarding the third quarter, we observed a decline in EBIT margin for Services. While we know it's challenging to pinpoint all factors on a quarter-to-quarter basis, was this decline related to the new revenue streams you are seeing from increased revenues in other areas, or was it due to some temporary factors as you mentioned in the release? I would appreciate clarification on profitability in this context.

Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer

Thank you for your question, Lucas. This is Antonio speaking. I will address the third quarter, and then Francisco will provide insights on the long-term margin outlook. In the Services segment, we've encountered some challenges this year, particularly in the third quarter. This has resulted in delays for customers, impacting payments, credits, and penalties. Additionally, we expect to see some compensation from suppliers in the fourth quarter. Essentially, it's a transition period from negative influences to more positive outcomes. I believe we will maintain our usual EBIT margin for Services around 14% to 15% this year, likely closer to 15%. It's really just a matter of timing between the third and fourth quarters.

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

For the future, Services and Support is one of our most important growth drivers in the organization. That's why we have been investing a lot; last year, we doubled our structure to support our business jet in the U.S. This means more service at Embraer MROs, more revenues, and more profit. We are now doing the same with commercial jets through a project in Dallas, Texas. Therefore, we expect significant growth in terms of revenues and profitability in the next five years from our Services and Support division.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from Alberto Valerio with UBS.

Alberto Valerio, Analyst

I focus on the bottom line, just to see some recurring and nonrecurring items going forward. Financial expenses come a little bit above what we were expecting. Wondering whether the offer of EV is inside that; I saw on the cash flows that was $12.6 million. And another one is about the non-controlling interest, which also came a little bit higher than we were expecting. Just to know the recurring of this $12.2 million on non-controlled interest.

Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer

Alberto, this is Antonio speaking here. For the net financial result, it's very simple. When the share price goes up, you have mark-to-market obligation to our long-term incentive, and then we have a hit in the net financial results because of the interest we are paying and the interest we are earning; I would say it's a big hit because of it. And non-controlling interest, let me have a look here. It's just that Eve was in the mark-to-market in Q3 was positive. That's why it generated a positive impact for the other shareholders just because of it. But again, it's a temporary advantage because probably Eve is going to be more valuable in Q4 than Q3 that this credit is going to be reverted. I hope to be able to answer you.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from the chat, and it's from Cenk Orcan. Can you provide some color on expected U.S. tariff impact on coming quarters?

Guilherme Paiva, Head of Investor Relations

Thank you for the question, Cenk. Initially, we projected U.S. import tariffs to be between $60 million and $65 million for the year. So far, we have recognized about $27 million of that total. Based on our initial guidance, we anticipate having approximately $35 million remaining in the fourth quarter. However, it's important to note that we are actively working on initiatives to lower that potential amount, and we expect it to be reduced. We will see what the final total is when we release our full year numbers.

Operator, Operator

This concludes the question-and-answer session for equity research analysts and investors. Now we'll start the Q&A session to the press. First, we'll be answering questions in English, and then we'll be answering questions in Portuguese. We'll also answer questions and the questions sent via the platform chat.

Guilherme Paiva, Head of Investor Relations

The first question comes from Nelson. How is the campaign for KC-390 in India? Did the recent visit of the Brazilian Vice President lead to any advancements in the negotiations? What is the scope of collaboration with the Mahindra Group? India emphasizes local production. Will this involve parts made in Brazil or products fully manufactured in India?

Unknown Executive, Unknown

Thank you very much for your question. The India project is progressing very well on both our side and the Indian side. The inauguration of Embraer's office in New Delhi two weeks ago marked an important milestone for the company. Notably, we had the Vice President of Brazil, Geraldo Alckmin, the Minister of Defense, and the commander of the Brazilian Air Force in attendance. This puts us in a very strong position, and we believe that the KC-390 is an excellent solution for India's Air Force. Our partnership with Mahindra encompasses marketing and sales support, and we are also involved in the industrial aspects of the agreement. This project for medium aircraft transportation requires 50% local parts sourcing; many components will still be manufactured in Brazil, while others from our suppliers will be produced in India or sent there for final assembly of the aircraft. The localization aspect is still a work in progress, but it will involve collaboration between Brazil and India. Overall, this new business will be mutually beneficial for both countries, and the potential for KC-390 is significant, with demand expected to be similar to our total production to date.

Operator, Operator

Our next question is from Chandu Alves with Oval Newspaper. Dear Francisco Gomes Neto, how is the negotiation with the U.S. government for the removal of the 10% tariff on planes? Does that harm Embraer?

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

Thank you for the question. The negotiation is between both governments, and Embraer is not directly involved in it. However, I believe things are progressing well. Recently, President Lula met with President Trump in Kuala Lumpur, which was a significant step in the negotiation process. We are optimistic about the progress being made. Once a bilateral agreement is reached between the two countries, there is a good chance that the aircraft and its parts will return to a 0% tariff. Similar outcomes have occurred with other bilateral agreements involving the U.K., Europe, Japan, and Indonesia, where aircraft requiring parts reverted to a 0% tariff. Regarding the second part of the question, the tariffs are detrimental in two ways. First, the parts that Embraer sends to the U.S. for the assembly of executive aircraft are affected by these tariff payments, increasing our expenses as the product becomes more costly. Second, with commercial aircraft, the tariffs make them more expensive, which could deter airline companies from placing further orders.

Unknown Attendee, Unknown

Can you hear me?

Unknown Executive, Unknown

Yes, I can hear you clearly. Please proceed.

Unknown Attendee, Unknown

At the beginning of your remarks, you mentioned that Embraer is planning a more ambitious expansion. How do you see this expansion taking shape? Could you provide us with some details, please?

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

Okay. I understand you were talking about a future expansion. Currently, our product portfolio is modern and competitive. Our order backlog is close to $31 billion, and there are still $50 billion under construction. We are focused on selling these products, and with this backlog, we anticipate significant growth over the next five years. We are also thinking about the longer term, looking ahead to 10 years. Therefore, we are investing in new technologies because Embraer needs to be ready for a future growth cycle that includes new products or aircraft. This could involve aircraft for Executive Aviation, Commercial aviation, or Defense. This represents our short- and long-term strategy for expansion. The new products could pertain to Commercial Aviation, potentially larger than the E195-E2 or even smaller ones. We are also exploring new technologies, including electric propulsion, which may involve hybrid options for mid-sized aircraft. While we haven't defined our production line yet, we recognize the importance of these investments in new technologies to ensure we are prepared when the time comes to make those decisions.

Unknown Attendee, Unknown

And about the KC-390 or the C-360 Millennium with India. From my understanding, Embraer believes that this business is secure, right?

Unknown Executive, Unknown

No, this is a very tough competition. We are competing with a U.S. aircraft that is well consolidated in the market, as well as with a French aircraft. However, we believe that our aircraft are well positioned for this type of application. Still, there is a significant gap between this and signing the agreement.

Unknown Attendee, Unknown

I just have one last question. You might suggest that I should join Eve's conference call. However, regarding the actual flight test with the flying aircraft, will the test take place in Brazil?

Unknown Executive, Unknown

Yes, they are taking place in Brazil. We anticipate that Eve's first flight should happen late this year or early next year. We are putting significant effort into developing the product, which we think will be crucial for Embraer's future. For additional details, you should join Eve's conference call that will follow ours. The tests are being carried out at our facility in Gavião Peixoto.

Operator, Operator

Now our next question will be in English. Let me just give a brief announcement to Portuguese speakers. The next question will be conducted in English. It comes from Jon Hemmerdinger.

Jon Hemmerdinger, Analyst

Can you hear me? I just want to touch on, Francisco, you mentioned new commercial products. And you've talked about some of this before, but I also heard you mention potential larger aircraft than the 195. Would you be willing to give any sort of updated timeline on when you might expect to make a decision on what comes next on the commercial side? And if so, what is that timeline?

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

Actually, Jon, this is the most frequent question I had in the past year. But again, I mean, the answer remains the same. We keep investing in new technologies. I mean we want to be ready to go for a new product that might be executive aircraft or commercial aircraft, bigger or smaller, but we don't have a timeline definition at this point.

Jon Hemmerdinger, Analyst

Yes, I have a follow-up question regarding the U.S. government shutdown. Has it impacted any of the FAA work you're involved in, such as the certification work with Eve or the airworthiness ticketing for the E2s or E1s? Additionally, has it affected any discussions about tariffs? Are these matters delayed due to the shutdown?

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

No, no, no, Jon. I mean, again, I mean, in terms of certification work, we continue working very closely with ANAC in Brazil and also with the contacts with the FAA. And the tariffs, I mean, I don't see any issue because of the shutdown affecting the tariff negotiations between Brazil and the U.S.

Unknown Attendee, Unknown

My name is indiscernible and I'm calling from Lagos, Nigeria. I have a question regarding Africa. It is an underprivileged region. Considering what you have mentioned, Embraer seems to be in a very positive operational phase this year. With that in mind, does Embraer plan to enhance its commitment to building capacity in Africa?

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

Thanks for the question. Africa is a very important market for Embraer, a very important region. We have many aircraft in operation on the continent. And more recently, we delivered aircraft for Air Link, South Africa, the E2, but we have many customers operating aircraft in Africa. So again, we will continue to invest in that region, I mean, to introduce more and more Embraer aircraft and Embraer services in the continent.

Unknown Attendee, Unknown

So is there any plan to increase the commitment to build capacity in Africa?

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

In terms of services, yes, as much as we deliver more aircraft, then we need more service and support depending on the region. But today, we already have a good structure, service structure to support our aircraft in operation in the continent.

Operator, Operator

The next question comes from the chat from Edgardo from Aviation Line. Is there any update regarding the suspension of the development of the new Embraer turboprop? How long can this program realistically remain paused before its initial design assumptions and market analysis become obsolete? He also has a second question, but if you'd like to answer this one first, please go ahead.

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

Sure. Thanks for the question. The turboprop initiative has been canceled. We don’t have any ongoing projects in that area at the moment. This could change in the future, but for now, the project is canceled, not just on hold. The E175-E2 is currently on hold due to the scope clause in the U.S., and we are adhering to that. If any changes occur, we will consider resuming work on the E175-E2. But again, the turboprop project has been canceled.

Operator, Operator

His second question is, I would like to know if there have been any updates regarding the Aerolíneas Argentinas order for the E195-E2 aircraft, which was put on hold after the change of government.

Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO

No, no change, no updates. We hope that one day, they will come back and consider that program that is a natural replacement of the old E190 E1s by the E2 family. At this point, we don't have any update on that sales campaign.

Operator, Operator

Thank you very much, everyone, for participating. This concludes the Q&A session of the Embraer conference. We have now finished the conference call. Thank you.