Earnings Call Transcript
Liberty Global Ltd. (LBTYA)
Earnings Call Transcript - LBTYA Q1 2025
Operator, Operator
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Liberty Global's First Quarter 2025 Investor Call. This call and the associated webcast are the property of Liberty Global, and any redistribution, retransmission, or rebroadcast of this call or webcast in any form without the express written consent of Liberty Global is strictly prohibited. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Today's formal presentation material can be found under the Investor Relations section of Liberty Global's website at libertyglobal.com. After today's formal presentation, instructions will be given for a question-and-answer session. Page 2 of the slides details the company's safe harbor statement regarding forward-looking statements. Today's presentation may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including the company's expectations with respect to its outlook and future growth prospects, other information, and statements that are not historical fact. These forward-looking statements involve certain risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by these statements. These risks include those detailed in Liberty Global's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including its most recently filed Forms 10-Q and 10-K as amended. Liberty Global disclaims any obligation to update any of these forward-looking statements to reflect any change in its expectations or in the conditions on which any such statement is based. I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Mike Fries.
Mike Fries, CEO
Great, and welcome, everyone. Thanks for joining our first quarter investor call. We've got a lot of ground to cover, so we'll jump right into prepared remarks. Of course, after that, we look forward to your questions where I'll get members of our management team engaged as needed. Just to remind you that we'll be working off of slides today, which those of you on the webcast should be able to see now, at least we hope so. If not, they're always available on our website. So I'll kick off on Slide 3 with a few broad observations. As you remember, 15 months ago on this call, we outlined a strategic plan that was focused on creating value, and just as importantly, finding ways to deliver that value to our shareholders. The tax-free spin-off of Sunrise this past November, which continues to trade well in the Swiss market, was the first big dividend from that plan, but not our only achievement. Just a few months ago on our year-end call, we reviewed progress across the balance of those strategic initiatives and presented the tactical steps we're taking now to create value on our three core platforms: Liberty Telecom, Liberty Growth, and Liberty Services. Now, the first takeaway from this call is that the team and I remain fully committed to those goals, and we're making solid progress across the board. That includes driving commercial momentum and network upgrades in our increasingly competitive telecom markets; optimizing our corporate structure and services platforms; and with $2.1 billion of cash on hand and a further $500 million to $750 million of asset sales planned this year, continuing to be smart about capital allocation. Let's go through it one by one. Beginning with Liberty Telecom on slide 4, where the value creation opportunity is substantial and the strategy is clear. Wherever and whenever possible, we intend to pursue transactions or opportunities that crystallize and deliver value to shareholders in the medium term. Remember, Sunrise as part of Liberty Global was valued at around 5.5 times EBITDA. As a stand-alone Swiss company, it's now trading at over 8 times EBITDA or the equivalent of $11 per Liberty share, so basically equal to our current market cap. And Sunrise was only 10% of our aggregate EBITDA. And we're not saying we can do that in every case, but there are multiple opportunities for value creation at the level of our operating companies, which still comprise four markets, 80 million connections, $22 billion of aggregate revenue and $8 billion of aggregate EBITDA. So we have a lot to work with, and we're focused on three near-term taxable goals for Liberty Telecom. The first is to finance and monetize network infrastructure, where we can do that. And as we discussed, the rationale for this varies by market, but we know fixed infrastructure in Europe is a highly sought after and valuable asset class. So where possible, we're seeking to raise capital at higher multiples, accelerate or strengthen network upgrades and rollouts, and create strategic platforms for market rationalization. That's exactly what we believe we're achieving in Belgium. The creation of our NetCo, which we call Wyre, has allowed us to develop an exclusive wholesale relationship with Orange. It's allowed us to secure attractive CapEx financing for our fiber upgrade, and it's allowed us to enter into strategic discussions with the incumbent Proximus around network sharing, which are progressing quite well, actually. And then ultimately, it's going to allow us to facilitate bringing equity partners into the platform on highly accretive terms. In Ireland, our fiber upgrade will reach 80% of our footprint by the end of this year and has already improved our competitiveness. It has allowed us to enter into wholesale arrangements with both Sky and Vodafone, generating new revenue streams and it's reshaped the market in our favor. In the UK, we are confirming today that we have paused our NetCo plans at the VMO2 level in order to align with Telefonica's announced strategic review. At the same time, nexfibre has updated its plans and will now target 2.5 million fiber homes by year-end on a cumulative basis. Let me say first that we pride ourselves on being good partners, and we appreciate and understand Telefonica's position. Undoubtedly, we have more to say about all of this as the year unfolds. In the meantime, there are multiple ways to continue to strengthen VMO2's competitive position in the UK. Our services already reach 7 million fiber homes, and for reference, VMO2 achieved record sales and net adds last month on the next nexfibre footprint. So stay tuned here. In the Netherlands, Stephen van Rooyen has made significant progress on a new strategic plan. You'll hear about that in just a moment. One element of that plan is to double down on DOCSIS 4 and the evolution of our broadband network, which resolves the outstanding question on some of your minds as to whether we need to build fiber in the Netherlands, and the answer is no. The second tactical goal on this slide is to organize our strategic and operating plans in a way that delivers long-term free cash flow growth and allows us to begin deleveraging over time. The Sunrise spin reaffirmed the fact that stable free cash flow and more modest leverage are catalysts for value creation. Now Charlie will have more to say about this in a moment, but we are constantly focused on the balance sheet of our operating companies, having refinanced all 2027 maturities in the last 12 months. And we just in this past quarter extended a further €500 million of Telenet's debt at rates in line with historical spreads. Now we're sensitive to the fact that our leverage in some cases is above our targets. That is why we've announced, for example, the sale of our Dutch towers and then we intend to use those proceeds to pay down debt. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, it is imperative that we continue to drive commercial momentum across our businesses. Every market is different, of course, but competitive intensity is increasing wherever we operate. This is the nature of our sector today. In addition to stabilizing our network strategies, we're finding across the footprint that three core things are working well. Wherever we operate, we are supporting customer acquisition with flanker brands that target different segments of the market. Giffgaff is a strong complement to the O2 brand in the UK, and we've just launched a broadband proposition for this growing customer segment. Illinois in the Netherlands was just awarded the best mobile provider, and based in Belgium allows us to compete at the lower end of the market as well as expand into South, where we see great opportunity for mobile and broadband growth. In every market, we are hyper focused on base management and retention. This includes things like strengthening the value of our loyalty programs to drive stickiness and support cross-sell and upsell. In markets like the UK, we're growing ARPU with AI tools that dynamically and proactively address customer contracts and churn. And we're hardening our base with initiatives like a 25% speed increase in Holland and Check and Smile service programs in Belgium. And then lastly, we're sharpening our competitive positioning with new packaging and pricing. VMO2 just refreshed its mobile portfolio with better airtime rates and multi-SIM offerings. And as we'll discuss, VodafoneZiggo just lowered its front book to match KPN. Now many of these steps are laying the groundwork for greater reach, stronger sales, better retention, more ARPU, and higher quality of service, primarily over the medium term. And while we do see green shoots in many markets today, competition for broadband and mobile customers remains intense. Generally, our Q1 subscriber and operating results on Slide 5 reflect that. We saw stable broadband losses with a downtick in the UK, and we experienced weakness in postpaid mobile across all of our markets with the exception of Holland. And these headwinds were offset by strong fixed ARPU growth, nearly everywhere reflecting price increases and the impact of the commercial initiatives I just referenced. Turning to each market briefly. In the UK, broadband net adds declined due to higher churn and higher overall market flux. That was driven in part by one touch switch, the new policy, and aggressive AltNets offers. Lutz and the team are adapting the approach they're using to retention while continuing to focus on value with another quarter of solid fixed ARPU growth. And with over 2 million greenfield homes, there are significant growth opportunities remaining in the nexfibre footprint. Overall, the U.K. postpaid market remained relatively soft, with VMO2 impacted by B2B contract port-outs, which are typically lower value. However, consumer net adds improved year-on-year, and encouragingly, we saw stable O2 churn dynamics, and we continue to see giffgaff growth despite a competitive overall market with lots of MVNO activity. It's worth noting that mobile service revenue, as reported by Virgin Media O2 was up in the quarter year-over-year, supported in part by a 2.6% uptick in mobile postpaid ARPU. Now turning to VodafoneZiggo, we continue to see an intensely competitive environment, driven by promotional offers from pretty much all of the providers. We'll discuss in more detail on the next slide what we intend to do. But in response to this, VodafoneZiggo launched new front book offers with simplified tiers and between a €3 to €5 price reduction, and that helps them better align the KPN pricing. We have already seen some benefits at churn as customers migrate. Postpaid mobile net adds in Holland were 29,000, that was driven by growth in B2B. And while the mobile market is generally more rational than fixed, we still see lots of price competition in the no-frills segment. In Belgium, we had a steady quarter compared to prior periods, where we continued to see traction with our base flanker brand in the South. On the Telenet brand, we saw a successful WiFi campaign during the quarter. We announced a price adjustment of around 3%, which took effect from April. The Belgian mobile market remains highly competitive, and that's characterized by prolonged promotional activity and repriced offers from the main flanker brands. In response to this, we've successfully repositioned BASE as a counter to the launch of Digi, and that's driven improved performance in our flanker brand. Finally, the Irish broadband market is heating up around fiber, but we've seen churn improve as Virgin Media Ireland optimizes the customer retention process. During the quarter, we've also seen our wholesale growth through Sky and Vodafone starting to offset retail losses. Now, let me spend a few moments on VodafoneZiggo. As you know, Stephen has been leading the charge for about six months. One of the main reasons that we in Vodafone hired Stephen was that we felt he could give us a clear-eyed assessment of the market, help us figure out VodafoneZiggo's true strengths and weaknesses and development plans to win again. That's exactly what he's done. On Slide 6, you'll see a very brief summary of the four key drivers he and the management team will use to regain commercial momentum in what is essentially a healthy three-player market, beginning with how they work. Specifically, that means simplifying processes, accelerating decision-making, and optimizing cost and efficiencies. This was long overdue and will also generate significant OpEx savings. Second, I think he has correctly concluded that the Dutch market is driven by speed and price, not necessarily technology. We have the highest ARPUs in the market. So this is the right time to reposition pricing, which we've already started doing in the front book, as I just mentioned. Third, as I mentioned a moment ago, Dutch consumers value speed, price, and quality of service. On the fixed network, we're going to go all in on DOCSIS 4, which will take us to 8-gig speed by the end of 2026 at a fraction of the cost to build fiber in this market. In the meantime, our current network configuration can get us to 2 gigs, which will accelerate. Finally, the team will reinvest in VodafoneZiggo's core strengths, that includes strong brands, popular loyalty programs, and a large FMC base, as well as a unique sports platform. Charlie will walk through some of the financial implications of this plan. But Marguerite and I are 100% supportive of Stephen and the team. It's time to reset in order to get back to growth. Now turning to Slide 7, over the last year or so, we provided greater disclosure on our Liberty Growth portfolio. I think that's helped investors and analysts understand the nature and quality of our investments in tech, media and content and infrastructure. This is especially important, given the size of our portfolio at $3.3 billion, and its relative contribution to our share price today, roughly $10 per share on an $11 stock. The strategy with Liberty growth is simple. We want to be in a position to rotate capital out of non-core and sub-scale assets and into higher-return businesses or strategic Liberty Telecom opportunities. Tactically, we have committed to sell between $500 million to $750 million of assets this year. We have line of sight on certain deals, and I'd remind you that our publicly listed stakes alone totaled $550 million. Now it's premature to disclose any potential investments into Liberty Telecom with those proceeds, but we have been quite busy at the Liberty Growth level. As a reminder, our portfolio is highly concentrated with seven investments accounting for nearly 75% of the $3.3 billion fair market value today. You can see those $2.5 billion of investments listed on the bottom left of Slide 8, along with the sequential change in fair market value this quarter. The changes quarter-over-quarter relate to increased investment, favorable FX movements, and increases in valuations, totaling about $200 million for the entire portfolio just in the last three months. Given our controlling interest in Formula E, we do now consolidate this investment, and we're excited about showing more regular updates. It's been a fantastic start to Season 11, with record viewership, particularly in the US where our Mexico City race, for example, reached an audience 80% higher than F1's Las Vegas Grand Prix. Now, we're headed to Monaco this weekend, and I'm telling you it's sold out for the doubleheader on Saturday and Sunday. And interestingly, to tap into this growing popularity, we launched a unique initiative, the first of its kind in motorsports, where we brought 11 well-known personalities from sports, technology, and entertainment, and gave them the unprecedented chance to prepare like a Formula E race and actually drive the Gen 3 EVO car during a two-day track event at the Miami circuit. You'll see that content, which has already generated 300 million views across social media and in a feature-linked documentary later this year. Last week, we launched a brand-new Formula E documentary on Amazon Prime, which goes behind the scenes with four drivers over the 2024 season. I encourage you to check it out, just to get a feel for the racing and the personalities in the championship. Finally, we're a short 18 months away from the new Gen 4 car, which is now testing and delivering incredible power, speed, and performance. So exciting things happening there. One more slide for me on Liberty Services and our evolving corporate structure. As a reminder, the Ritec and Liberty Bloom generate $600 million of annual revenue and positive operating free cash flow. Far from being a burden, each of these platforms continues to pursue growth and efficiency initiatives that will create real equity value for shareholders. Every boom, as you remember, provides a host of financial and back-office services, just went public with its first marketing campaign, and has already added, according to Charlie, 10 new non-Liberty clients to the roster. The balance of our corporate costs amounts to about $200 million annually after management fees, and this is the number that analysts are valuing at approximately 14 times, resulting in a $10 reduction in our sum of the parts. Not only does the reduction in value not recognize the inherent equity value of Liberty Bloom and Ritec, it penalizes us in relation to other sectors like media and private equity, even compared to some of our telco peers. We'll continue to make the case with analysts. In the meantime, we are working on reducing these corporate costs through a combination of efficiencies and additional revenue generated from Liberty Telecom, Liberty Growth, and Liberty Services. So stay tuned for more details about this in the second half of the year. Finally, just a reminder that our corporate cash, which totaled $2.1 billion at the end of the quarter, is 60% in euros and is dedicated to supporting the strategic plans I just outlined. This includes, of course, opportunistic share buybacks, which we have targeted at up to 10% of our shares in 2025. As always, I look forward to discussing this in greater detail during the Q&A. But with that, Charlie, over to you.
Charlie Bracken, CFO
Thanks, Mike. The next slide sets out a summary of the quarterly revenue and EBITDA performance in our key markets. VMO2 reported a return to revenue growth of 0.4%, excluding next fiber-related construction revenues and handset revenues in Q1. This was driven by a strong performance in consumer fixed revenues and improving momentum in the mobile service revenue segment. VodafoneZiggo reported a revenue decline of 2.6%, mainly driven by a decline in fixed revenues and lower handset sales, which was partially offset by continued growth in Ziggo Sport and B2B fixed revenues. Telenet reported a revenue increase of 2.7%, supported by higher programming revenues in the quarter and the continued benefit of the June 2024 price adjustment. In terms of Q1 adjusted EBITDA performance, VMO2 adjusted EBITDA grew 0.8%, excluding the impact of nexfibre, supported by core service revenue growth and cost efficiencies. VodafoneZiggo's adjusted EBITDA declined 8% in the quarter, impacted by the decline in the fixed business, increased programming costs, and higher labor costs related to the collective labor agreement. Telenet's adjusted EBITDA grew 0.8%, supported by lower network costs and other cost control measures, which were partially offset by higher programming costs and wage inflation. The next slide provides an update on the key metrics of our capital allocation model. Starting on the top left of the slide, in Q1, we saw cash flow generation in line with our expectations. As has been the case in previous years, Q1 is typically a modest cash outflow quarter given the timing of interest payments on our debt stack and with limited cash distributions from the JVs, which tend to come in Q4. Turning to our cash walk. Our consolidated cash balance sits at $2.1 billion at the end of Q1. From our closing Q4 balance, we saw modest outflows in the quarter related to investments in the Liberty Growth portfolio and the execution of our share buyback program. Moving to Liberty Growth, the fair market value of our Liberty Growth portfolio increased by around $150 million during the quarter. This was primarily driven by the increase in dollar terms of our largely euro-denominated investments, as well as new investments in AtlasEdge and nexfibre. Finally, looking at our CapEx trends, we continue to invest in our fixed and mobile networks, and the elevated CapEx in Belgium and Ireland reflects the continued commitment to roll out fiber networks in those markets. Now as a reminder, I tell that the step-up in CapEx will support an additional 375,000 homes passed by year-end 2025 at Wyre, and will also support 5G and digital CapEx at the ServCo. We expect CapEx intensity to decline at ServCo in 2026 as we complete the major investments in the mobile network in 2025. While CapEx will also be fully debt-financed through its own CapEx facility, which means there's no equity requirement from either Liberty Global or Telenet. Overall, we remain confident in our ability to remain in line with our capital intensity targets across the OpCo as we set out in the guidance we announced at Q4 results. Turning to our treasury update, we maintain a strong balance sheet position with our debt split equally between bank debt and bonds. Our variable bank debt is fixed using swaps, which are independent of the debt, allowing us to refinance the credit spread in our near-term maturities, but also benefit from the full term of the swaps. We maintain a cost of debt of around 4% to 5%, with an average life on our debt of approximately five years. In general, we look to manage our debt maturities so that there are no material refinancing commitments in the next three years. Following the successful refinancing of VMO2, we have turned out all 2027 maturities, which means we're able to remain opportunistic and flexible in our financing approach, and we intend to remain proactive in terms of pushing out the existing maturities and extending the average life of our debt. Our activity at Telenet demonstrates our ability to remain agile with a new eight-year €500 million term loan facility deployed at an attractive spread of around 300 basis points and which was completed during the quarter. As a reminder, we also secured commitments for our €500 million CapEx facility at Wyre, beginning as a stand-alone capital structure to support the fiber rollout. Mike has already discussed the new strategic plan of VodafoneZiggo. But in the following slide, I'm going to walk through both the near-term financial implications of the plan on the 2025 guidance and also give some color on the midterm financial implications and actions that we are taking to help return the business to our four to five times long-term leverage target. Beginning with the impact on 2025 guidance, we're lowering revenue guidance from broadly stable to low single-digit decline for 2025. As Mike laid out in his remarks, this is principally driven by more aggressive retention activity across the market and the flow-through of lower front book pricing and the right pricing of Ziggo base. Adjusted EBITDA is now expected to be down mid to high single digits in 2025, impacted by this migration process. Capital intensity will remain at 20% to 22% of sales, in line with the guidance given in February. Adjusted free cash flow and shareholder distributions will be lower at a range of €200 million to €250 million versus the €300 million we previously guided to, reflecting the impact of this lower adjusted EBITDA guidance. Now, turning to the midterm, we expect that the flow-through from the front book pricing will continue to impact revenue and adjusted EBITDA trends through to 2026, but with a moderating impact versus that in 2025. We believe that the series of commercial and network actions that we are taking will stabilize and then reduce the declines that we've been seeing in fixed subscriber customers. As Mike discussed, we are accelerating our DOCSIS 4 strategy in the Netherlands not only to 8 gig speeds from 2026 but also strong interim steps, including 4 gig. We aim to do this largely within the historic CapEx envelope of VodafoneZiggo of around €900 million a year. Now whilst there will be an impact of the new strategic plan in 2025 and 2026, we're aiming to position the business to deliver a return to growth in the midterm, probably around 2027, whilst maintaining a broadly stable free cash flow profile through this transition period. Lastly, on leverage, given the short-term pressure on adjusted EBITDA, we anticipate leverage will peak in 2026 and reduce thereafter. Given this increase in short-term leverage, we're accelerating non-core asset sales, starting with VodafoneZiggo's tower assets, and we will use the proceeds of these sales to pay down debt. Turning to our guidance for all our assets, I would like to talk through the updates of VodafoneZiggo. We are reconfirming all the remaining guidance metrics of VMO2, Telenet, Liberty Services, and Corporate. That concludes our prepared remarks for Q1, and I would like to hand over to the operator for Q&A.
Operator, Operator
The question-and-answer session will be conducted electronically. Our first question will come from Carl Murdock-Smith with Citigroup. Your line is open.
Carl Murdock-Smith, Analyst
That's brilliant. Thank you very much. I wanted to ask about the UK net adds, specifically the commentary around the broadband additions and tough market conditions. I was wondering if you could provide a bit more color on that topic. I mean, you talked about one touch switching. You talked about market competition, AltNets, and also, I guess, price rise impact as well. Could you provide some more color on how much you assign to each one? And I suppose you're talking about one-touch switching is interesting given that it was also in place last quarter, but we didn't seem to see the same impact last quarter. So what are you seeing through the quarter as well? Thank you.
Mike Fries, CEO
Yes. Thanks, Carl. Look, we're not going to get into much more detail in breaking it down between One Touch Switch and other factors. But Lutz, why don't you try to address what you're comfortable sharing, and we'll go from there.
Lutz Schüler, COO
Can you hear me? Yes. Sorry. So, Carl, thank you for your question. So what's actually happening is that, of course, quarter-over-quarter, GPLS is used more by customers. That's number one. Number two is that the market is more competitive, and you might have seen it, right? Some competitors put up to £300 benefit on the table to get customers. This means customers within minimum contracts can churn. So, that is number two. This is also driven by AltNets you can expect because they are in a pretty challenging situation. The only thing they have is the networks and price, that's it. So we are impacted by that. Now, the good news is, right, we built this machine that we can target down to 60 households a retention offer with product and price. This machine is learning the same thing for prevention, right? We are running 100,000 campaigns with machine learning and AI at the same time. It takes time to optimize the machine from retention to prevention because the market clearly shifts because of GPLS to prevention. But two things are making me more comfortable. One is that we were able to generate fixed service revenue growth of 1.9% before price rise. Price rise impact is kicking in, in Q2. The second is we now see some slight improvements from April onwards. We don't expect that to stay because our machine will deal differently with it. Yes, I hope that gives some background.
Carl Murdock-Smith, Analyst
That’s fantastic. Thanks very much.
Operator, Operator
Thank you. Our next question will go to the line of Robert Grindle with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Robert Grindle, Analyst
Hi guys, thanks so much. That was an exciting hour or so. The question is on The Netherlands, actually. I think it's impressive that you can do the DOCSIS upgrades within the existing CapEx envelope. Just to be clear, is there an assumption about CPE costs and take-up of the higher speeds within that CapEx envelope? You said you're going to sell towers in the Netherlands to reduce debt a bit. You've said that before a few years ago, if I'm not mistaken. Is there something that's changed now between yourselves and that you've got a bigger plan for the business that's unlocked this new ambition? Thank you.
Mike Fries, CEO
On the towers, it takes time to get a towerco set up. Lots of documentation and various things have to be put in place. We have a partner, so I think we're now aligned as partners that this is a good time to go ahead and take that step, which, as you know, reviewed many of them, is complicated and takes time. We're very aligned on that, and you can figure out the value and proceeds it will create. Our purpose and intention is to use those proceeds to absolutely pay down debt, which seems like the right thing to do, especially in light of this revised guidance. On DOCSIS, look, we're committed to the strategy and the technology. The good news is we're not alone. I think there are 120 million homes currently being prepared and/or rolling out DOCSIS in the U.S., and we're very closely aligned with Charter and Comcast on every element of the network rollout, the technology, and the CPE. Our numbers, while they will continue to be refined and improved, are pretty good. Stephen can talk about the impact that we'll have from a marketing point of view to have these types of speeds. It's clear to us that this is the right technology for this market.
Robert Grindle, Analyst
Great to hear. Thanks, gents.
Operator, Operator
Thank you. Our next question will go to the line of Polo Tang with UBS. Your line is open.
Polo Tang, Analyst
Thanks for taking the question. It's to focus a bit more in terms of VodafoneZiggo. I'd just be interested in terms of any commentary from Stephen van Rooyen in terms of what he's doing differently since he's taken over? Any first impressions but also be specifically interested in terms of the customer response to the €5 price cut in terms of broadband, has this resulted in any improvement in terms of net adds for Q2? Given the weakening EBITDA trends and with leverage at VodafoneZiggo at six times, does it make sense to continue upstreaming a dividend to shareholders? Is cutting the dividend not the faster way to delever VodafoneZiggo? Thanks.
Mike Fries, CEO
Well, multi-level question there. I think we feel like on the last one first, and I'll hand over to Stephen on the dividend to shareholders. That's our current guidance. We'll evaluate that as the year goes on. We think the tower proceeds, as well as other non-core asset sales, which we have been working on, will be sufficient to delever the business where it used to be at this stage, especially given the strategy we're undertaking and the midterm growth prospects that we see. So we'll evaluate that, Polo, as the year goes on, but that's our current position.
Stephen van Rooyen, CEO
Yeah. Thanks for the question, Polo. I think your cheat sheet is on page 6. So if you want to know what I've been doing in your office, it's outlined on the page: four big blocks, fixing the organization, fixing where the organization operates, looking at the cost savings that I think are overdue, which we plan to deliver this year through '27. Necessarily, we've moved to realign our pricing. Our pricing was out of kilter with the marketplace. One of the biggest purchase reasons is price, while the biggest reason for leaving is price. So you needed to sort that out. You don't just cross that line; you need to do it. We've done that now. We did that actually earlier in Q1. As we said in the financials, you feel that effect now and you'll feel it through the rest of the year, but it's the right thing to do because at the heart of what two and three are all about is arresting the decline, stopping the descaling. This strategy is designed to do that. Embracing three different brands that operate in three different market segments, the value end, then you've got premium mobile and premium broadband, and making sure they're positioned well, investing behind them to ensure they take share in those markets. As Mike said, taking the risk off the table, the overhang on what the right thing to do with the network is. I'm highly convinced we have conviction that pursuing the DOCSIS upgrade path gives us the right speeds in this marketplace. We've got differentiators. Our loyalty plan is very exciting, and I believe we've only seen the tip of what we can do with that, helping offset some of the risks we have with long-tenure back book customers by investing more there. FMC offers a lot of opportunity and a lot of upside. The plan now is to commit to this, roll up the sleeves, align the team, and the new operating model behind doing that and delivering.
Polo Tang, Analyst
Thanks.
Operator, Operator
Thank you. Our next question will go to the line of Steve Malcolm with Redburn. Steve, your line is open.
Steve Malcolm, Analyst
Yeah. Thanks, guys. I'll take a couple if I can related on Vodafone Ziggo again. Stephen, you're going to have to step up again. Just on the CapEx. Can you give us an idea of where the savings are to fund the DOCSIS 4 rollout? You're saying a stable $900 million. So what's coming out to fund that? How long until you get the whole network upgrade, a rough idea of the timeframe? If I missed that, I'd love to hear that. And just so on the OpEx savings. Clearly, part of the EBITDA downdrafts is Champions League. Stephen, you come from a rich content environment in Sky. I can't give a single telco that's really made money out of Champions League rights. Is there something that you need to own or something that you would give up fairly easily to try to improve EBITDA in a couple of years' time? Thanks a lot.
Stephen van Rooyen, CEO
Three questions in there. Thanks for the questions. Let me deal with the last one first. I think it's too early to call what our plan with UEFA is. You'll notice I made an intervention upon joining about monetizing it more and better. I think we made a statement that that started flowing through. I expect that there are more opportunities for me there. For the moment and Ziggo Sport, it's a discrete, distinctive, and valuable part of the brand and the proposition. So I'm pretty happy with that. On CapEx, we're getting through the bulk of the mobile network upgrade plan. Money should free up from that part of the network envelope to move across to this. We're also through and going through a part of our IT and IT infrastructure, which should start paying us dividends, allowing us to reinvest money in the network upgrade and stay within the envelope that we've guided. In terms of rolling out the network, I'm not going to give you specifics about that other than as we've said in this presentation, we see our way through to getting 2 gig, 4 gig, and 8 gig in parts of the country through the next 18 months; considering where we were and what the overhang was on us building fiber, it's a pretty rapid deployment and an important deployment in specifically areas of the country where we think it's going to make a difference.
Mike Fries, CEO
There was always a little bit of DOCSIS in the original CapEx envelope to begin with. It was always our base case. We weren't talking about it as much because we didn't have the same conviction as we have right now. But there was always some DOCSIS CapEx in there, so that's helping too.
Steve Malcolm, Analyst
Okay. Thanks a lot.
Operator, Operator
Thank you. The next question will go to the line of Joshua Mills with BNP Paribas. Your line is open.
Joshua Mills, Analyst
Hi, guys. Thanks for the questions. I understand you probably can't give too much detail on this one. But maybe if you'd be able to give us some color on the conversations you're having with Telefonica about VMO2. How do they see the asset? How do you see the assets? Is it still a priority longer term that you can reduce leverage at this entity through asset sales or perhaps lowering the dividend payment? Just any broad brush commentary there would be very helpful as obviously a bit of a pause. Secondly, on the network strategy in the Netherlands, I think you made it very clear that you're not going to build fiber, but I think there were comments at a conference from you, Mike, recently that you may be open to partnering with or doing deals with the AltNets longer-term. Is that still something you'd be considering under the right conditions? Or do you think the DOCSIS 4 strategy you're putting in place today will be enough to provide the speeds you need across the whole footprint long-term? Thanks.
Mike Fries, CEO
Yes, Josh, on the network question, the answer is we do feel that DOCSIS 4 will give us what we need long-term to be competitive. However, we will always remain opportunistic about other network strategies or opportunities to either accelerate our access to high speed or higher speed broadband or create value. We really say never, but I think the core plan today is, as we've described it, and we're pretty bullish about that plan. On Telefonica, I believe we have a very good partnership. We've had a long and successful partnership with Telefonica, and I respect the fact that the new leadership needs time to figure out where their priorities are and where they want to put their capital and effort and where they see the biggest benefits and upside for their shareholders. If I were to reverse the tables and if we were coming in with a fresh perspective or developing fresh perspective, now we would also see some kind of understanding. There are lots of options remaining in this market. Lutz and I mentioned there's 7 million fiber homes already in our ecosystem that we control. We're the second largest network in this country, with 18 million homes, and the engine is churning in a positive way. There’s a lot to be really excited about in the UK, and we're going to keep figuring out how we create value for shareholders, and they'll be doing the same thing. I would say it's a very good dialogue. I think very highly of Mark. He's come into this as a new sector, and he's quickly grasped the core aspects of our industry. We're going to give them the time they need to figure it out, and that's really all I would add to that.
Lutz Schüler, COO
Okay. Thanks.
Operator, Operator
Thank you. Our next question will go to the line of Ulrich Rathe with Bernstein Societe Generale Group. Your line is open.
Ulrich Rathe, Analyst
Thanks very much. On the Netherlands, I wanted to ask, one of the arguments that is floating around on the difference between staying with HFC and going to full fiber is that the operating costs on the cable option, even with the higher speeds that DOCSIS 4 offers, will be structurally higher in the long-term and that this is a competitive issue. How do you think about that element of it, the higher operating costs and potential margin impact relative to competitors? If I may just put in one clarification on the UK net adds please. Is there a time scale to this pause? Is that something that you would expect to be talking about again in six months or over the next two years? Or is there any sense of when this pause might end? Thank you.
Mike Fries, CEO
I believe the leadership of Telefonica has suggested that they will have views on their strategic plan in the second half of this year. That's probably a pretty good timeframe for this to have an impact on our own strategies and opportunities in the UK. On the OpEx question, as I think we've mentioned many times before, there are a handful of things that drive the decision between fiber and DOCSIS. The number one issue is the cost—cost per premise. What we know is the cost per premise in the Netherlands will be a very small fraction of the build for fiber. It dwarfs any potential long-term OpEx efficiencies from consolidating networks and consuming less power and the things that fiber can provide. Cost to build, in our opinion, in the Dutch market is prohibitive, whereas we can get where we need to be with a very small fraction of that expense with DOCSIS. We don't even get ourselves into the OpEx efficiency question because it's relatively small in the scheme of the overall capital decision and capital allocation decisions we're looking at. I don’t know if Enrique wants to add anything.
Enrique Rodriguez, CTO
I think that's pretty accurate. The other thing I’d add is that we maintain our networks, our HFC networks in the Netherlands, and in all our operating companies at a pretty high level of current technology. The HFC technology today is really highly connected to software, cloud, or modern technology. We feel pretty confident about the operating expenses on DOCSIS, not only DOCSIS 4 but in the continuation and expansion of DOCSIS 3.1, as Stephen mentioned before.
Mike Fries, CEO
The other point I'll make in support of DOCSIS on this case is that connection costs and CPE are equally important in any fiber decision. The ability to stay with a single network here and execute against a single technology with less disruption to customers is another benefit.
Ulrich Rathe, Analyst
Very clear. Thank you.
Operator, Operator
Thank you. Our next question will go to the line of Matthew Harrigan with the Benchmark Company. Your line is open.
Matthew Harrigan, Analyst
Thank you. Two questions, one on Formula E and then on 5G, both consumer business services. When that other Liberty bought Formula One, it was pretty apparent in some of the practices under Ecclestone weren't optimal on social media, promotion, sponsorship, et cetera, imbalances with Ferrari between the structure of the teams. What do you think the missteps in the past have been? What do you think you can do to elicit more interest and enhance the team values as well because that was clearly one of the things that Liberty did right on Formula One? How do you assess the competitive position? I know it's very different, but kind of formula relative to Formula 1 in terms of the very long-term potential? On the consumer side, Mike, you've been very vocal that 5G has kind of been table stakes, very difficult to monetize, disappointing in the U.S. as well, whereas network slicing, you've got a lot of opportunities on the business services side. Is there anything happening with better integration of AI and the handsets, say, complexity or even like 8K or whatever makes people want to stream more on 5G mobile that would finally enable you and others to benefit from the rising tide on better monetization for the European consumer?
Mike Fries, CEO
Thanks, Matt. On the 5G point, there are two versions, and pretty much everybody, with the exception of a handful of operators, are operating under the less robust version of that. The second and more robust version of 5G SA is in our sights. We're all anxious and working towards getting our networks to GSA stand-alone 5G, which has many operating benefits and could lead to the kind of things you're describing on the consumer side. But I'll tell you, almost every operator will agree that the primary revenue-generating benefits of 5G will be in the enterprise area. The ability to slice networks, the ability to have mobile private networks, the ability to provide solutions on the edge—these are all things that 5G facilitates in the B2B space, and that is very real. So, yes, we're optimistic that over time, as we all get to 5G stand-alone, which is the true 5G, that will open up opportunities in the consumer space. But I think the real benefits will be in the enterprise side of the business, which is where the long-term opportunity lies. On the Formula E question, look, Formula 1 is a juggernaut. It is an incredible business. The team on the other side of the house has done a fantastic job. To tell you that we're going to be Formula 1 someday would, of course, be ludicrous. We're relatively small; it took 75 years to get to where it is. What I know is this: there are only a handful of global championships around the world. We are fortunate to own one. Secondly, we own one that, no pun intended, is a rocket ship. Every car we bring out goes faster and faster. It won't be long before we're as fast as the Formula 1 car around Monaco, and we're doing it without slicks and aero packages and things like that. So just focus on the racing because that's really where I get excited—watching the cars go faster, and watching dozens of overtakes on the Monaco track is compelling racing. It's also exciting for me. We have sustainability components that are fantastic. We have lots of sponsors who are excited to be part of this, and we're excited to have them. We have great manufacturers and strong team ownership, but it's early days. We're in these early days at relatively low cost, so I think there's nowhere to go but up. We're not trying to be Formula 1 per se. Many things we do better than they do and vice versa. We're trying to attract a younger, more diverse audience and change the nature of racing. I think we're well on our way. It's really exciting where we're heading, and I believe rising tides here float all boats.
Matthew Harrigan, Analyst
Thanks Mike. Congratulations on Sunrise; that has really worked out well.
Mike Fries, CEO
Thanks, Matt.
Operator, Operator
Thank you. Our last question will go to the line of David Wright with Bank of America. Your line is open.
David Wright, Analyst
Yes, hi guys. I think we've covered Holland now. So just, I guess, a question on the NetCo; Test Chairman has obviously indicated an H2 strategic review to be communicated, and there could be some moves alongside that. That means you have to wait a little. I'm just wondering how comfortable you guys are waiting because one of the objectives of NetCo was always to provide a vehicle to potentially consolidate the U.K. Competition is hitting you hard now, hitting everyone hard. So I think the general view is the sooner that consolidation comes, the better. It speeds up your time to market, and you've just brought back the nexfibre targets a little bit. How comfortable are you sitting on the sidelines when arguably you're running behind target and need to move a little quicker? Just on Formula E, I did notice the departure of McLaren, who prioritized Formula 1. That is quite a big loss for the branding of the sport; was there any opportunity to sort of—was there any opportunity to keep them involved or even bring them back? That seemed quite a loss for the brand.
Mike Fries, CEO
You're touching on the nature of the sport, which is—there's flux and it's fluid. McLaren has been a great race team owner for quite some time, but they're not a manufacturer. They're not producing engines. So, we think while that's a loss, no question, and we love Zach and Zach loves us, we'll be able to fill that slot with compelling owners, and I can't speak about here, but we're well underway to making that happen. It's certainly a loss, but he had to manage his own business. He's got sponsors and financial questions he has to answer. I don't think it was he doesn't like Formula E. He had to choose where to allocate capital, and I think some of that capital might have gotten a little smaller than we thought and he made some moves. On the bigger issue of NetCo, I would say the following: yes, the market is evolving. It would be potentially better to have—to be front and center with our original plans. However, nothing prevents us from entering into strategic dialogue with operators around things like consolidation. I'll remind you that the acquisition we did earlier in the year was done by nexfibre and VMO2. We didn't have a NetCo in that instance. We still have a very large broadband base. We have an 18 million home network or 16 wholly owned. There are unlikely to be significant developments in the rationalization of altnet fiber in this market that we aren't part of in some way. I do believe that Telefonica would answer that question similarly, which is we will stay opportunistic, and we will take action if things are presented to us that require immediate action. We'll evaluate those. We remain optimistic in a vibrant market, and we’re a major player in it. While we're calling for the specific NetCo stake sale, by no means are we shutting down our strategic brains here.
David Wright, Analyst
Okay. Thanks for taking the questions, Mike.
Operator, Operator
Thank you. Our last question will go to the line of James Ratzer with New Street Research. Your line is open.
James Ratzer, Analyst
Yes. Thanks very much indeed. Good afternoon, Mike. I just had one question, please. If I look at VodafoneZiggo, you've obviously been facing some broadband customer losses there for a few quarters now, and you've now decided to react with a new strategy to reprice on the front book. If I look at the UK, you've just had 44,000 broadband losses this quarter. I mean, if that were to continue as well, it seems like some of the one-touch switching effect is going to continue at least into Q2. At some point, do you need to consider a similar type of strategic shift on pricing in the UK as well? Thank you.
Mike Fries, CEO
I think it's premature to address that. Lutz would say our partners would agree that we'll be agile as the year unfolds. We are still adding customers in our nexfibre marketplace. We think that accelerates, so that's a consistent quarterly net add in the two-plus million homes where we are now penetrating greenfield markets, if you will. We think that's a significant driver of growth for us. We'll have to monitor the losses and in relation to the sort of plans and techniques that Lutz referenced, we understand One Touch switch, and we are preparing to address that in a much more effective and proactive way. Let's see how things unfold. I think the move in the Dutch market was probably long overdue in the sense that we have the highest ARPU there, and we didn't have the conviction around how to retain customers or grow the customer base for quite some time. We had been an easy target, and what Stephen's brought is a much more pointed and fierce strategy about winning again. That's always a good posture to have. Marguerite and I believe we are comfortable with the posture that they're putting forward, and let's see how those results unfold. So we're optimistic.
James Ratzer, Analyst
Got it. Thank you very much.
Mike Fries, CEO
I think that's time. As always, we appreciate you engaging with us and taking the time to call with us. There's lots of data, lots of information, so we're always here to support you and answer any questions you have. It's important to us that you get what you need to understand the story and the stock valuation. Just assume we say, we as a team are completely aligned and focused on our strategy here. You can hold us accountable to all the things on those slides because we're working on them 24/7, and we look forward to keeping you posted on that.
Operator, Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes Liberty Global's first quarter 2025 investor call. As a reminder, a replay of the call will be available in the Investor Relations section of Liberty Global's website. There, you can also find a copy of today's presentation materials.