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Earnings Call Transcript

Reynolds Consumer Products Inc. (REYN)

Earnings Call Transcript 2022-06-30 For: 2022-06-30
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Added on April 16, 2026

Earnings Call Transcript - REYN Q2 2022

Operator, Operator

Greetings and welcome to Reynolds Consumer Products, Inc. Second Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. A question-and-answer session will follow the formal presentation. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Mark Swartzberg, Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

Mark Swartzberg, Investor Relations

Good morning and thank you for joining us for Reynolds Consumer Products Second Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call. On the call today are Lance Mitchell, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Michael Graham, Chief Financial Officer. For our agenda today, Lance will focus on market conditions and our fundamentals, and Michael will review our quarter and outlook. Together, our remarks will be approximately 20 minutes. Then we will open it up for your questions. During the course of this call, management may make forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Federal Securities laws. These statements are based on management's current expectations and involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and outcomes to differ materially from those described in these forward-looking statements. Please refer to Reynolds Consumer Products Annual Report on Form 10-K and other reports filed from time-to-time with the Securities and Exchange Commission and its press release issued this morning for a detailed discussion of the risk that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied in any forward-looking statements made today. Please note management's remarks today will focus on non-GAAP or adjusted financial measures. A reconciliation of GAAP measures to non-GAAP financial measures is available in the earnings release posted under the Investor Relations heading on our website at, reynoldsconsumerproducts.com. The company has also prepared a few presentation slides and additional supplemental financial information, which are posted on Reynolds website under the Investor Relations heading. This call is being webcast and an archive of it will also be available on the website. While we would like to answer all your questions during the question-and-answer session, in the interest of time, we ask that you ask one question and a follow-up, and rejoin the queue if you have additional questions. And now, I'd like to turn the call over to Lance Mitchell.

Lance Mitchell, CEO

Thank you, Mark. We delivered another quarter in line with our earnings expectations and what continues to be a very dynamic environment. First half and second quarter highlights include continued share strength across our business, share gains in branded waste bags, branded disposable tableware, and multiple cooking and baking categories. A return to shipments aligned with consumption. Further narrowing of the price to cost gap across most of our business, including a further improvement in waste bag profitability. Delivery and expansion of Reyvolution savings. A substantial slowdown in foil consumption has been challenging. However, category declines have been moderating since late June. Our branded volume share is growing again and a number of corrective actions are underway to address this issue. In addition, lower cost inventory has a positive impact on foil margins as we head into the holiday season. I will go into our foil plans and other revenue drivers in a moment. But before I do, I want to highlight a few things about the environment and our unique advantages and position within it. Our category advisors are diligently working with our retail partners to support our categories and drive traffic. And as you would expect, consumer behavior during these dynamic times is top of mind. That means we are having numerous discussions about the optimum balance of brands and private label, promotions, pack sizes and features and displays. I also want to point out that our price leadership and the cumulative value of our pricing actions, together with declines in aluminum and polyethylene rates are producing a closer alignment between price and cost, which we have been pursuing since late 2020. This translates into anticipated margin expansion and earnings growth in the fourth quarter and a significant increase in flexibility to invest in trade, advertising and other category drivers as we plan for the holidays in next year. Michael will elaborate on that shortly. Now, let's talk about our main drivers of growth, pricing, consumer demand, innovation and manufacturing and supply chain capabilities. In the area of pricing, we began increasing foil promotions in June, motivated by the historically strong impact of promotions and we are encouraged by the consumer and retail response. We are implementing additional promotional activity over the balance of the year, including a substantial step-up in October in order to drive holiday related demand. We've announced another round of pricing for our tableware products to offset the additional cost increases for polystyrene resin and an additional increase for Hefty brand waste bags. In terms of elasticity, the foil category is demonstrating the largest increase in elasticity prompting many of our actions. Our other categories are also seeing increased elasticity by comparison to what we were seeing earlier in the year and we are watching them all closely. Changes in consumer consumption in our categories has been more dynamic than we have seen historically. We will continue to respond with corrective measures. Turning to consumer demand, as you know our products are in 95% of U.S. households and we have benefited from the changes in habits triggered by the pandemic. We've been meeting these changes in habits and as I said earlier, we are uniquely positioned to respond to new opportunities as economic conditions change. We rely on consumer market research, which allows us to better understand who is driving our categories and their needs. We stepped up at these capabilities during the pandemic and made a number of discoveries. For example, an increased portion of men and younger consumers are more active in the kitchen at home than they were prior to the pandemic. That's a major opportunity in any economic environment. But here are a few examples of how we're responding to it in this environment. In foil, as I said, we're stepping up promotions, allowing us to hit lower retail price points and increase purchase frequency. We're also increasing features and displays to drive usage and targeting advertising to reach younger consumers. In Waste & Storage, we're seeing strong back-to-school demand in branded and private label products and driving the Hefty brand through innovation, larger pack sizes, distribution gains and additional advertising. In disposable tableware, we're driving party cups with a particular emphasis on the club channel. The third driver of our growth is innovation. Our standout innovations continued to be Hefty Fabuloso and Hefty ECOSAVE. Each of which continues to demonstrate high velocity, while also gaining distribution. Other notable contributors in the quarter and year-to-date include new Hefty Fabuloso 4-gallon and 8-gallon waste bags for use in additional rooms of the house and private label waste bags with odor control. Hefty Fabuloso and Hefty ECOSAVE are delivering as major platforms for innovation and we plan to expand them. And in terms of new innovation, we just introduced Hefty Compostable Printed Paper Plates, Reynolds Kitchen Compostable Wax Paper and other Reynolds innovations are in the pipeline and we plan to introduce a wide range of branded and private label products offering sustainable solutions that are wins for consumers, retailers and RCP alike. Our fourth driver is manufacturing and supply chain capabilities. Staffing and supply chain conditions continue to be challenging, but they are stabilizing and much improved versus late 2020 and 2021 levels. Before I pass the call to Michael, I'd like to leave you with the following. We're well-positioned for changing economic conditions and we're responding with promotions, pack sizes, advertising and other pieces of the marketing mix to meet our consumers' increased emphasis on affordability. The gap between our pricing and material manufacturing and logistics cost increases is nearly closed, and we are on course for margin expansion and earnings growth in the fourth quarter and 2023. This means not only a return to earnings growth, but also increased flexibility to invest in our categories and drive future innovation and consumption. We are executing with excellence in our mission to simplify daily life so consumers can enjoy what matters most. I'm extremely proud of the RCP team as we navigate through these dynamic times. We are well-positioned to realize the benefits of the actions we've taken over the last two years. With that, over to you, Michael.

Michael Graham, CFO

Thanks, Lance. And good morning, everyone. I'll briefly review our second quarter results, then I'll turn to our guide and why we are well-positioned for margin expansion in the fourth quarter and 2023. Net revenues in second quarter were $917 million, an increase of 5% over second quarter net revenues of $873 million in 2021, primarily driven by price increases and partially offset by a decline in volume. Adjusted EBITDA for the second quarter was $118 million, down 20% versus last year's second quarter of $148 million, driven by lower volume, primarily due to declines in foil consumption as well as higher materials, manufacturing, logistics and advertising costs. Significant price increases across our entire portfolio offset all material cost increases and a large portion of increases in manufacturing and logistics costs. We expect to close the remaining gap between price and materials manufacturing and logistic cost increases in third quarter and to see an additional margin benefit in the fourth quarter driven by anticipated progressive easing in aluminum cost and implementation of additional pricing. Adjusted earnings per share for the quarter was $0.26. Turning to our segment performance, details are in our press release and 10-Q. So let me give you the highlights. The 5% increase in net revenues was driven by low to mid-teen increases in pricing in each of our business segments, which was partially offset by a 9% volume decline driven by Reynolds Cooking & Baking and to a lesser extent declines in two other segments. Our overall price increase of 14% is consistent with the year-to-date increase of 13% and reflects our effectiveness in recovering on material cost increases and a large portion of increases in our manufacturing and logistics cost in the second quarter. As you know, in May we expected a mid-to-high single-digit volume decline in the second quarter, and as Lance reviewed, slowing foil consumption was a substantial headwind in the quarter. The 19% decline in Reynolds Cooking & Baking volume also reflected a decline in low-margin reroll volume and an additional headwind from timing of retailer replenishment early in the quarter. Whereas volume declined 3% in Hefty Waste & Storage driven by lower waste and food bag usage as consumers are spending less time in their homes and as Lance mentioned, branded waste bag volume and dollar shares are up in the first half. Volume was flat in Hefty Tableware as gains for Hefty disposable plates and private label party cups were offset by declines in other disposable tableware and Presto products volume declined 7%, driven by lower waste in food bag usage. Turning to our outlook for the third quarter of fiscal 2022, we expect net revenues to grow 8% to 12% or $905 million in prior year, driven by price increases and a low to mid single-digit volume decline. Adjusted EBITDA of $110 million to $120 million and adjusted EPS to be in the range of $0.21 to $0.25 per share. For the fourth quarter of fiscal 2022, we expect net revenues to grow 9% to 17% or $1,021 million in the prior year, driven by price increases and flat to slightly down volume. Adjusted EBITDA of $220 million to $240 million and adjusted EPS to be in the range of $0.59 to $0.66 per share. For the fiscal year 2022, we now expect net revenues to be up 8% to 11% on $3,556 million in 2021, driven by price increases and a mid-single-digit volume decline, including the impact from timing of retailer inventory replenishment, primarily in the first quarter of this year. Adjusted EBITDA of $560 million to $590 million, adjusted EPS to be in the range of $1.32 to $1.43 per share and net debt to be $1.9 billion to $2 billion at December 31, 2022 and as a reminder, our capital allocation priorities are unchanged. As Lance said, elasticities have picked up, particularly in our foil business. And so those assumptions are reflected in our guide, we continue to closely monitor elasticities and how they may change in other categories given the inflationary environment.

Lance Mitchell, CEO

In terms of other key assumptions, we assume rates for key commodities are stable-to-easing by comparison to end of July levels and estimate incremental cost pressures of approximately $525 million for the year, which is a $75 million increase by comparison to our expectations, we reported in the first quarter results. We estimate depreciation and amortization of $120 million for the year, interest expense of $70 million and an effective tax rate of 25% and a capital spending of $135 million to $145 million, down from our previous estimate of $150 million to $170 million, driven by extensions and timing of select capacity and other investments. In terms of phasing, our incremental pricing and costs comparisons have us positioned for substantial margin expansion that we expect in the fourth quarter. As I just reviewed, first-half results reflect a narrowing of the gap between pricing and cost increases. We expect that trend to continue in the third quarter and for our implemented pricing to fully offset increases in materials, manufacturing and logistics costs. We also expect SG&A to be up in the third quarter versus prior year, due to increases in variable compensation and advertising costs. As we enter the fourth quarter, we expect to see progressive easing of aluminum costs, driven by existing inventory positions and fourth-quarter gross margin is expected to also benefit from the implementation of recently announced pricing. Now before I hand the call back over to Mark and your questions, I want to leave you with a few thoughts on recovery of pre-pandemic profitability. We anticipate achieving pre-pandemic levels of profitability in 2023. We estimate this to be in the mid-$900 million, when adjusting to current volume levels, compared to pre-pandemic gross profit of $880 million. We expect closing of the gap between pricing and cost increases, as I discussed when reviewing the guide, to be a major catalyst. In addition, as Lance mentioned, the cumulative value of our price increases is significant. Together with our category leadership position and the anticipated easing of commodity costs, we expect this will allow us to increase category investment, while also gaining additional margin. And we are expanding Reyvolution cost savings based on a comprehensive business review, identifying and targeting additional procurement, manufacturing and logistics savings, giving us added scope for investment in margin growth. In closing, we continue to manage through a very challenging environment. I'm encouraged about the actions we've taken as well as the implications for the future results. And with that, I'll hand the call back over to you, Mark.

Mark Swartzberg, Investor Relations

Thanks, Michael. As I turn it over to the operator for your questions. I'd like to remind you that we ask that you ask one question and a follow-up and then rejoin the queue if you have additional questions. Operator?

Operator, Operator

At this time, we will be conducting a question-and-answer session. Our first question comes from Kaumil Gajrawala with Credit Suisse. Please proceed with your question.

Theo Brito, Analyst

Hi, this is Theo Brito for Kaumil. So you're now guiding to volumes to be down mid-single digits this year. Can you maybe just remind us what was your expectation before and more importantly, what gives you confidence in the new volume outlook, please? Thank you.

Lance Mitchell, CEO

So the answer to the first question was down low-single digits. And what gives us confidence in our new volume guide is, this is a very dynamic environment. And as I mentioned in the prepared remarks, elasticities have picked up in much of our business, particularly in foil. But as I also said, in our remarks, our category advisors are actively addressing changing consumer needs with our retail partners and we're seeing an encouraging response to corrective actions in the foil category. Specifically, we have maintained all points of distribution that have historical share position. Our category declines have begun moderating and we're regaining volume share as we've picked up these promotions. The EQ volume for 12 weeks ending June 26 for Q2 essentially, the category was down 12.2% and Reynolds Wrap was down 15.6%. The EQ volume for the four weeks ending July 31, the category is down 5.6% and Reynolds Wrap down 4.4%. We plan to continue increasing foil promotions, features and displays through year-end, including a substantial pickup in October to take advantage of lower foil costs and holiday related demand. And after many months of lagging Reynolds Wrap price increases, we've seen private labels begin taking prices up. And some of the other drivers in our other three business units, we expect our performance in the club channel, which is strong to continue, and that's particularly important for tableware. Hefty Fabuloso continues to gain momentum with new distribution and the introduction of multiple new pack sizes. We are stepping up advertising across our portfolio of Hefty Waste & Storage products and evaluating increases in promotions and we're also introducing new low-price-point packs for above sizes and additional value-pack sizes. The changes in consumer consumption in our categories has been more dynamic than we've seen historically, and we're continuing to watch it very closely and we will continue to respond with corrective measures.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from Lauren Lieberman with Barclays. Please proceed with your question.

Lauren Lieberman, Analyst

Great. Thanks. Good morning, everybody. I still just wanted to go back to the reason for the lowered EBITDA and earnings outlook for the year, because the conversation on, yes, the volume declines in foil are worse. But we've talked about this before and that you would turn the promotion on and then you called out the higher cost basket. I'm just curious the sources of that big change, because it just feels like 3Q is a little bit of a shock and I frankly thought there was maybe a little bit more visibility, inherent in the business model. So I'm curious mostly about 3Q? Thanks.

Michael Graham, CFO

Yes. So the main driver of our guide down is lower volume expectations as we are in a more inflationary environment and therefore elasticities have gone up. We estimate approximately 3 points less volume than we previously expected. Those 3 points represent about $40 million of loss contribution margin that's all the $40 million decline in adjusted EBITDA. And when you look at the lower end of our guide of $615 million and the midpoint of our current guide of $575 million. So in terms of the third quarter EBITDA, in terms of volume, as Lance said we're in a dynamic environment. Elasticities have picked up in all of our categories, particularly in foil, but as we look at the commodity curve, the value of the pricing we've implemented and we are expecting a significant increase in earnings in Q4 relative to Q3 as a result. Specific to Q3, in aggregate, the year-over-year benefit of pricing in Reyvolution is fully neutralized, cost increases year-over-year. With the other segment compensating for Reynolds business, where we are still working through some of the higher cost aluminum. So that has to be worked through in subsequent quarters. So this leaves volume in SG&A. We expect volume declines in the range of low to mid single digits, which is a headwind, but there are some offsetting margin benefits from improved innovation. As an example, Hefty waste bags, Fabuloso. We've also have the Reynolds Kitchens have performed very well and we're expecting the same moving forward. So year-on-year the decline really boils down to higher SG&A with most of our total year-over-year increases falling in the back half. The key drivers are increased advertising and market research and higher compensation costs, some of which is timing related.

Lauren Lieberman, Analyst

Okay. To take a step back, the volumes in foil or cooking and baking were worse than expected in the second quarter, which caused a delay in the timeline for moving through some of that higher cost inventory through the profit and loss statement.

Michael Graham, CFO

You got it.

Lauren Lieberman, Analyst

Okay, okay. And then the SG&A piece that you were saying, Michael, I'm sorry. I was still my brain was spinning on the inventory piece. So there's also some higher SG&A that you've built in, because you're investing more than you've maybe previously planned?

Michael Graham, CFO

Yes.

Lauren Lieberman, Analyst

Yes. Okay, great. For the fourth quarter, you will see margin expansion due to the timing returning to the original plan for transitioning to the lower-cost inventory and the additional pricing adjustments.

Michael Graham, CFO

So let's just go back to the SG&A point.

Lauren Lieberman, Analyst

Sure.

Michael Graham, CFO

The year-over-year decline was down to higher SG&A with most of that total year-over-year increase falling in the back half, right? The key drivers are increased advertising and market research and higher compensation costs.

Lauren Lieberman, Analyst

Okay. All right. Great. Okay. I'll leave it there, pass it on. Thank you. I'm fine. We can follow-up offline too, thanks, guys.

Michael Graham, CFO

Okay. Thanks, Lauren.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from Robert Ottenstein with Evercore. Please proceed with your question.

Robert Ottenstein, Analyst

Great. Thank you very much. Can you talk a little bit about the competitive environment for trash bags, what you see your competition doing, how the promotional feel looks like and what you need to do to kind of get that business on a better path?

Lance Mitchell, CEO

Yes. Robert, thank you for the question. We have seen a much more constructive environment in the competitive dynamics in the waste bag category. As you heard in my prepared remarks, we are announcing another price increase on Hefty waste bags. And so when that is completed, we will be recovering almost all of our costs, including labor and logistics, as well as resin, assuming the resin curve holds in that category. So we've seen a very much more positive environment as it relates to the pricing dynamics across the category. And that is going to come down to how the consumer consumption plays out as we go forward.

Robert Ottenstein, Analyst

How do you feel about your share trends?

Lance Mitchell, CEO

The share trends in the first half were positive, in the last four weeks it's been pretty flat.

Robert Ottenstein, Analyst

Okay. And going over on the aluminum foil side, how do you see that category playing out in terms of consumer choices between private label and branded? And do you see a path for consumers going back more heavily to branded?

Lance Mitchell, CEO

Yes, as I mentioned in the prepared remarks, we have seen pricing of private label increasing. And so to put specific numbers on it, the last 12 weeks, private label increased 2.5 share points. But in the last four weeks, it's been flat. So as we've put these promotions in place, which has gotten our price points lower and as we've seen private label prices increasing. We've seen that the price gaps narrow. And we've seen that shift back to a more stable position between brand and private label in the category.

Robert Ottenstein, Analyst

Okay. Can I ask one more question? Given the current dynamic environment, which you mentioned is more unpredictable than before and has a lot of elasticity, are your discussions with the retailers different now? Are they viewing the category in a way that is distinct from how they have in the past?

Lance Mitchell, CEO

I think what we're looking at with the retailers is making sure that we get the price points correct, right? And what happened in foil, when you see a category that declined 15 points in a quarter, that's historically something we've never seen a double-digit decline in the category. So our discussions with them has been about how do we get the price points right in this inflationary environment. Reynolds Wrap, 75-foot pre-pandemic traded below $4 on a unit basis, the 75 square foot flagship product. As we've taken pricing to compensate for very high costs aluminum, it went up to almost $2 a pound. The price points went above $5. So we're now promoting well below that. Looking to get below $5 and into the mid-$4s as we get into Q4. And that will be driven by the investments we will make with lower aluminum costs as we go through that inventory, but we'll do that on a sequential basis to ensure that we also have the opportunity to ensure our margins stay strong.

Robert Ottenstein, Analyst

Got it. Thank you very much.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from Andrea Teixeira with JPMorgan. Please proceed with your question.

Andrea Teixeira, Analyst

Thank you. Good morning. Lance, I wanted to go back to your comments on private label. Has your mix moved back to that portion of the business and your price in private label has improved to your point about pricing moving up? Do you see that as an improvement on a sequential basis for your margin? And then a follow-up on the Cooking & Baking given the mid-teen, I believe you said mid-teen consumption decline in the quarter, do you have a sense that obviously inventory levels in retail build up and then if you see that, what is baked in your guidance into the fourth quarter, you did say in October you're going to be pushing more pricing and promo? Anything you can inform us also in terms of pantry de-stocking, if you see folks, especially at Costco where you have a big presentation there or a big pack if things have improved sequentially? Thank you so much.

Lance Mitchell, CEO

I believe there are three questions here. I want to clarify the first one regarding the private label shift. Are you referring specifically to foil, or are you considering all of our categories? Are you inquiring about whether we are increasing the margins on our private label? I didn't fully grasp what you were asking about.

Andrea Teixeira, Analyst

Yes, let me clarify. If you could focus on foil and trash bags, those are the most important ones. I noticed the comments regarding Presto's underperformance. It seems that store brands have gained some market share, as you mentioned. Additionally, I want to add to the price gap discussion you mentioned earlier.

Lance Mitchell, CEO

In the second quarter, we observed a shift towards private label products in foil due to our pricing increasing at a faster rate than private label offerings. Over the last 12 weeks, private label share rose by 2.5 points compared to our products, but it has plateaued in the last quarter. By implementing promotions and lowering our price points below $5 across all sizes, we've managed to stabilize our position without further shifting to private label. However, in waste bags, the trend is different; the branded share has actually improved by 1 point over the last 12 weeks, and 0.4 points in the last four weeks. There hasn't been a shift towards private label in waste bags based on our recent outlook and history. Does that address your question regarding the private label shifts?

Andrea Teixeira, Analyst

Yes, Lance. The one thing on the private label share that you mention on aluminum foil, did you capture that because you obviously put this around 40% of your sales in private label, did that shift more favorable to you or it's mostly your competitors?

Lance Mitchell, CEO

I see. Okay. So in foil, that is one of the categories that we don't have a very strong position on private label. We've got some capacity constraints and we have chosen to really focus on the brand in that particular category. So, no we did not pick that up.

Andrea Teixeira, Analyst

Okay. Regarding the Cooking & Baking inventory levels at both retail and pantry, you had mentioned that this was an issue in the first quarter. I'm curious about how this situation has progressed into the second quarter and as we move into the third quarter.

Lance Mitchell, CEO

Yes. Well, we continue to monitor our retailers' inventories through direct access or a number of inventory tracking tools. And we did see the retail de-load the foil and other products as we had anticipated in Q2. But for the last two months, we've been shipping in line with consumer demand. We do know that retailers are of course continuing to evaluate their own inventory levels and we're watching that closely.

Andrea Teixeira, Analyst

Right, but then when you say you're shipping according to demand, the demand is still down?

Lance Mitchell, CEO

Yes, but it's moderate, as I mentioned it's 4%, so it's significantly different than it was in Q2. And we have factored in the retailers' inventories through direct access or a number of inventory tracking tools. We did see the retail de-load the foil and other products as we had anticipated in Q2. But for the last two months, we've been shipping in line with consumer demand. We do know that retailers are continuing to evaluate their own inventory levels and we're watching that closely.

Andrea Teixeira, Analyst

That's fair. All right. Okay.

Operator, Operator

Our next question is from Mark Astrachan with Stifel. Please proceed with your question.

Mark Astrachan, Analyst

Yes. Thanks and good morning, everyone. So I want to maybe come at some of the previous questions in a slightly different way. So back to your commentary about achieving pre-pandemic profit levels next year. I guess maybe think to about it, how should we model, the retention of pricing, if inputs come down either in line with expectations or more and relative to what you all have said from a historical standpoint, which I think was maybe just under 40% retention of pricing, if you go back to 2018, 2019? How does that play out going forward and sort of related to that, if I'm doing the math right, for your guidance pricing still has to pretty meaningfully accelerate on a two-year basis over the balance of the year. So how does that factor in and could potentially elasticity which is worsening, get worse even than expectation? Thank you.

Lance Mitchell, CEO

Well, I'll answer the first part of the question and then I'll let Michael explain a little bit more about 2023 and our outlook for 2023. But we have historically been able to maintain and improve our margins and keep pricing as commodity costs go down and we believe that we will be able to do that in 2023 and in Q4. In total, when you look at the price increases that we've taken over a two-year period, it's almost $1 billion. So there's a lot of opportunity to be able to margin up within that $1 billion and at the same time, invest in our categories to maximize promotions and advertising. Mike, do you want to talk about 2023?

Michael Graham, CFO

Yes, and specifically around the gross profit. So we anticipate achieving pre-pandemic levels of profitability in 2023. We estimate this to be around in the mid-$900 million when adjusting to our current volume levels, compared to pre-pandemic gross profit of about $880 million. We expect closing the gap between pricing and cost increases and as I discussed in reviewing the guide to be a major catalyst. In addition, as Lance mentioned, the cumulative level of our price increases is pretty significant together with our category leadership positions and easing of commodity costs, we expect this will allow us to increase category investment while also gaining additional margin.

Mark Astrachan, Analyst

Okay. I've got it. Just one other follow-up on that last point, one last piece in that last point, Michael. So you said volume still being off, where I guess the '23 comments are contingent on volumes still being up versus pre-pandemic levels. I guess you are all surprised at the volume degradation that we've seen in '22 and kind of the world continues to normalize. How do you think about the likelihood that you retain those incremental volumes?

Lance Mitchell, CEO

Yes. So we've done some extensive studies with an IRI consumption forecast projection model to look at the effect of this volume, how much of it is impacted by pricing and how much of its impacted by reopening. And in most of the categories, it's 60% elasticity and 40% reopening. In foil, it's 76% elasticity and only 24% reopening. So we believe there's been a fundamental shift in the pandemic and the use of our categories and we get the pricing right on elasticity that volume will continue to be above pre-pandemic levels.

Mark Astrachan, Analyst

Got it. Okay. Thank you.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from Bill Chappell with Truist Securities. Please proceed with your question.

Bill Chappell, Analyst

Thanks. Good morning.

Lance Mitchell, CEO

Good morning.

Bill Chappell, Analyst

Hey I'm sorry to keep hammering on the same issue on foil. But I mean, on that last kind of comment of 76% of the business is elasticity or the issue is elasticity. I mean, it's hard to kind of buy into that number. I mean, I just trying to think fundamentally about the foil category. There's not really a substitute for the category. I mean, if prices are high and you're still cooking or using foil, you still need to use a cook foil and it doesn't seem like all of your business has gone to private label. So I'm just trying to understand how that works out and how you haven't had demand destruction. And I guess the question is, do you think you've made a mistake of pricing too far, too fast versus just kind of riding out a short-term rise in aluminum costs?

Lance Mitchell, CEO

The price of aluminum more than doubled in 2022, exceeding $2 a pound. If we hadn't adjusted our prices accordingly, we could have faced significant earnings losses, estimated at around $75 million. Therefore, we had no choice but to increase our pricing. While it’s unfortunate that we had to respond to these commodity price hikes, we are confident based on trends from the past few weeks and previous events in 2018, when aluminum prices spiked. After crossing certain price thresholds, we eventually saw demand recover when prices stabilized. Our research indicates that consumers are not abandoning the category; rather, they are adjusting their buying habits by reducing their purchase frequency and opting for smaller pack sizes, while more affluent customers might be purchasing larger sizes. The situation varies among consumers, but they are still engaged with the category. We've conducted extensive studies on this, and there are no real substitutes available. Restoring the price points will likely help normalize purchase frequency.

Bill Chappell, Analyst

Okay. And I guess on that same, I don't fully understand why private label has taken so long to be a weak point for you?

Lance Mitchell, CEO

That is a question we have asked ourselves over the last year, and it remains a mystery to us. I don't have any answer to that question. I can only speculate that we believe that some retailers were comping off of each other on their store brands and they ate some margin, waiting for the others to move. And that was part of the equation, the other part of the equation may have been the amount of lower-cost aluminum that they had in inventory during the run-up. So they felt that the producers felt like they could wait before they took the pricing. We have got no confirmation, though that anybody's hedging. So that is not a scenario that we've believed could have impacted the timing for the private label producers.

Bill Chappell, Analyst

Okay, great. I'll turn it over. Thanks.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from Jason English with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed with your question.

Jason English, Analyst

Hey, folks. Thanks for letting me in. I got three kind of rapid-fire questions, I guess. So thank you for the mid-$900s number on gross profit. I think we're all going to step back and say mid-$900s gross profit, put $350 million or so on SG&A, a $110 million as D&A and walk away saying that you're expecting somewhere in the low $700s from an EBITDA perspective, is that meaningfully off base?

Lance Mitchell, CEO

The SG&A number is a bit low as we will have more advertising than that. So I'd say closer to $400 million.

Jason English, Analyst

Okay, that's helpful. And then in terms of the fourth quarter, you put a sales range out there that's really wide, but you put a volume number at least the comment suggests that you've got a pretty tight expectation on volume. I think you said sort of flat to down slightly, yet total sales plus 9% to 17%, suggesting you see at least probably a 500 basis point range on price, which is sort of unusual. Usually price you got better visibility in volumes, where the uncertainty lies. What's going on there? What drives the exceptionally wide range?

Michael Graham, CFO

Yes. The overall revenue range takes into consideration of potential on volume fluctuation. The indicated volume guide is the midpoint of the expected volume performance. So in order to hit the 17% revenue growth, volume will need to be up. And on the flip side, if we do a 9%, volume would need to be down.

Jason English, Analyst

Okay. That's helpful. And in terms of volume, if I do a three-year CAGR on Q2, which is effectively like, if I do it versus 2019, your volume is down 6% versus 2019. So the whole notion that you're like you're going to be able to have profit off a higher volume base in this quarter, certainly calls that into question. Is there something unique sort of timing wise that would, why this quarter is not reflective of sort of a round trip back to not only pre-COVID but actually below pre-COVID levels?

Lance Mitchell, CEO

No, I don't see that. I haven't calculated the 6%, so we'll need to revisit that. It's down 50 basis points, correct?

Jason English, Analyst

Yes with 2Q 2020, you're up 3% on volume, but 2Q 2021, you're up 1%, now you're down quite a bit, like you compound those and it's not positive. It's a negative number. But sounds like we can follow-up offline?

Lance Mitchell, CEO

We'll need to, we'll do some math.

Jason English, Analyst

Yes. Good stuff. I'll pass it on. Thank you.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from Peter Grom with UBS. Please proceed with your question.

Peter Grom, Analyst

Good morning, everyone. I hope you're all doing well. I wanted to follow up on Jason's question regarding the guidance for 2023. Lance, you mentioned the flexibility and pricing actions planned for next year, as well as the decrease in promotions and advertising spend. How do you view the projections from here? It seems that if we consider $400 million in SG&A, there is significant potential for earnings growth with approximately $950 million in gross profit. Is that the correct way to interpret it? Are you expecting possibly over 20% EPS growth for the next year?

Michael Graham, CFO

Yes, I think you're in the ballpark here.

Peter Grom, Analyst

Okay, that's helpful. And then I guess I just want to follow-up on Lauren's question regarding the gap between price and cost pressures and thinking through the 3Q earnings guidance. I mean, can you maybe just break out more specifically what you're expecting in terms of gross margin versus higher SG&A that would drive EPS and adjusted EBITDA to be down strong double digits. I know you mentioned the higher incentive comp and ad spend, but just any commentary specifically around those two items, would be really helpful.

Michael Graham, CFO

Yes. So I think the reference is that overall our SG&A is going to be up.

Peter Grom, Analyst

Okay. All right.

Michael Graham, CFO

With the primary driver of that is being overall compensation.

Peter Grom, Analyst

Okay. Thank you so much.

Operator, Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. And I would now like to turn the call back over to Lance Mitchell for closing remarks.

Lance Mitchell, CEO

Thank you, everybody, for your questions. We appreciate your time this morning. Our business is well positioned for any economic environment and we anticipate earnings growth in the fourth quarter. I want to thank our employees and our retail partners for their dedication and their contributions during these challenging and dynamic times. Thank you.

Operator, Operator

This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.