Conference Transcript - SBDS 2025-08-27

Speaker 2

Thanks very much. Good morning, everybody.

John Larson, CEO

You know, I go back to my universities and lecture every once in a while, and I make the kids come to the front of the class. I won't bite, but I won't do that here. Appreciate you guys taking the time to learn a little bit more about Solo Brands and where we are in our turnaround and some of the outlook for the future. Let's see if I get the technology right. A little background on me. I joined Solo Brands board in December. had a friend who was on the board had been on public company boards the previous eight years the majority of that in a chairman role and had retired from a day-to-day ceo role in 2022 but thought what a cool bunch of brands and what opportunity and i thought the stock price was really low and i'm excited to join the board and i joined in december and as many of you know if you followed us before we had a little bit of a tough fourth quarter my first official board meeting was in February and we had realized as a board and as a management team we were working on a turnaround plan at that point in time and then the previous CEO elected to leave at that point in the board meeting and I came in as interim and because I like the brands in the challenge and the people so much at the company agreed to stay on Laura's here is a CFO Laura has been with Solo Brands for 18 months. So she came with the change 18 months ago. She's lived through very briefly one CEO, then a second CEO, and now I'm her third. So I don't know if they say she's a CEO grinder or what. I don't know what's going on here. But no, Laura's a great partner, a great teammate. And honestly, I wouldn't have stayed to work through the challenges we had to if the team wasn't that great. And Mark is here as well who runs investor relations for us. Solo brands a little bit, you guys have seen a million vision statements and so have I because I'm old. I run enthusiast brands for the last 15 years of my career as CEOs, but we're leading portfolio lifestyle brands, really built for communities to be involved with, trust us, love us, and rave about us. And that's the cool thing about the category. I've had opportunities to run bigger companies and when I found out their main product was a toilet seat I'm like, this really isn't too exciting to me, but I've always worked, whether it was the auto industry, running Buick and GMC truck, whether it was in the aftermarket in the Jeep space, running Bestop with a lot of the top brands in the Jeep aftermarket industry, this is what enthuses me, and this is what this company is about. Just to give you a quick high-level overview, for those who don't know, we're at about $400 million in revenue and about $27 million at EBITDA, if you look at our last 12 months. the key brands are really solo stove and chubbies that makes up roughly 90 percent of our revenue now we have a water sports division that's the remaining 10 percent that has some very unique products as well but the majority of our business really falls within those two key brands both solo brands and chubbies and i apologize i have a bit of a cold so if i start losing my voice i will drink a lot of water um you know these just aren't normal brands when you look at nps scores like this you know previous companies i've run we had an mps score of 52 and i thought we were we were the absolute top of the top and i never saw a score higher than that um that i worked on actively when i saw solo stove at 73 that's a crazy mps score that's top one percentile highest in the industry our customers just love our product in the community i mean they are huge advocates for a product that gives you the basis for doing something great chubbies equally well 54 54 is almost unheard of as well it's just funny that it's 19 points below solo stove but I guess the point here is it's the reason I'm standing here today I looked at the company joined the board for this reason looked at the challenge ahead but said quite frankly we have great brands and we have consumers that love us it's just up to us to run the business the right way to be successful going forward. By the way, you can ask me questions throughout this whole thing at any time if you'd like. Coming into 25 was a real challenge. You know, fourth quarter results were far below our expectation. We have a company that's really skewed towards fourth quarter results. Close to 40% of our results come in the fourth quarter. And you had a company that was building to be a billion dollar company at somewhere between four and 500 million in revenue, putting infrastructure in place, putting people, distribution centers, heavy investments in brands. And the issue was that kind of hit a freight train with a tough fourth quarter with sales demand dropping at the same time. So when those two things hit, we had a fourth quarter that really under-delivered from expectations, and we got put in an immediate situation of we need to look at our debt refinancing. Then tariffs popped into the game and became much more apparent as we started 25. We had a going concern disclaimer put on by our auditors, not surprising after our fourth quarter results, the leverage that we did have and with tariffs being uncertain. York Stock Exchange traded suspended trading of our account at that point in time. Key partner challenges, there was a bit, you know, you're talking to some key retailers and you want to be the cornerstone because you have a great brand and they're saying, wait a minute, you got a going concern, they just canceled trading on your stock. Are you going to be around to make sure we plan our future around you as a brand? And a bit of an uncertain consumer environment, but I'm not going to use that as an excuse. We say operating in tough consumer climate. I just look at Shark Ninja and I go, I don't want to hear about a tough consumer environment. Do great products, do the right thing for your consumer, and you're going to win. You need to overwhelm it out there. So other than this, everything was great, Mrs. Lincoln. and it was a little bit of a challenge for sure that we were working through. So it was obvious that we needed to reset and refocus and we needed to think about us as a little bit of a smaller company right now and set ourselves up for future success, how you can deliver revenue to the bottom line for your shareholders, in the end make this a worthwhile company for the shareholders and with our current trend rate, that wasn't going to happen. So what did we do? We had started this end of fourth quarter in January, had the change in CEO. I came in, I was aware of the initiatives in place, and so we tried not to lose stride, and we tried to focus more aggressively on each of these four categories. I call them surge teams. That's just something I like to use. And we said, what are the four things we are going to focus on first? So immediately it was on organizational design. Our goal was simply to deliver a structurally smaller profit-driven business model, period. I'm a recovered finance guy. Finance degree, I was finance guy at General Motors before I moved into general management, And so I'm a numbers person, I'm an analytics person, and in the end, we needed to set up a structure that could actually deliver bottom line profitability. And the trends were really not so favorable at a point in time. Because I used to be a finance guy, or General Motors, they'd yell at me in a meeting when I was running divisions, like, you're just a finance guy. And I just said, no, I'm a marketing guy who can count. And so the second surge team we set up was marketing effectiveness. We spent almost $100 million on marketing with a little over $400 million in revenue. The single biggest line item of spend in the company. And maybe that was right, and maybe it was wrong. But I was going to make sure we looked at every dollar of that and said, let's look at that clearly and decide, is that the best place to put capital in the company? And what is the return on each dollar that we're spending? The third team we set up was pricing and promotion strategies. Every PE firm comes in and looks at pricing. the first thing you do with a company but it was more than that it was how do you align with your retailers how do you work with promotional strategies that that are set up that are coordinated that makes sense for a premium brand and is there some potential pricing opportunities that do exist for us out there to deliver more for our shareholders and last is product

Speaker 2

innovation the reality is you can never cut your way to success you aren't going

John Larson, CEO

to be a successful company just getting leaner leaner leaner and getting smaller and so I'm all about product I'm I wish I was an engineer my product team wishes I was an engineer so things I request maybe aren't engineering feasible but I'm always on top of looking for innovative new products that we need to deliver as a company and so that's the excitement in us and that's where I think the real growth opportunity is we'll get into that let me take you through the first three boxes quickly talk a little bit about results here to dates if you have questions and then I'm gonna end talking about product innovation to let you know kind of where we're moving. So with that org design, meaningful strides from the beginning. We've taken a significant amount of cost out. We've got a project management office that we meet every week on a list of about 38 initiatives and the amount of cost we've taken out has been amazing as a company. Headcount, we've taken close to 20% of the people out. I think we've kept all the key leaders despite the terrible situation we were walking into.

Speaker 2

The key management team is in place and really excited about the future

John Larson, CEO

and motivated about what we're doing going forward. In addition, we looked at everything, you know, whether it was every account we had, whether it was insurance, we've negotiated a tremendous new deal with FedEx on the bottom line. Consolidated a number of operations in our warehouses. And for those of you who don't know the background on Solo Stove, it was originally called DTC on the stock exchange, and that's because they were going to build a big direct-to-consumer model and build this big infrastructure and just keep acquiring brands. Not the case right now. Let's take that huge infrastructure out. Let's focus on these three great divisions of lifestyle brands we have and maximize profitability for them and manage them how they need to be managed. We're not an administrative machine just shipping products out. I think Amazon has that market covered a little bit myself. They do a nice job. And then we created enterprise-wide centers of expertise. And so the reality is brand research, being great on performance marketing, those things go across all of our divisions. But we were three pretty disparate divisions. So we brought these centers of expertise that helped bring headcount together. But more importantly, all the contracts you have with outside consultants and all that, let's bring it in a space. And so it offered a lot of efficiency. as well. So we feel good about where we're moving in organizational design and we've identified a handful of additional initiatives versus the restructuring that provide us some big upside. Pricing and promotion strategy. You know, imagine you're a public company and what are you doing? You're chasing your quarterly guidance and they're in the fourth quarter and things aren't going well and we start promoting on our website. Like we promote every single day and we start discounting bigger and bigger and bigger trying to chase the top line. And what you end up doing, other than training your consumer base and not acting like a premium band, is you undercut all your retail partners. For the solo stove division in particular, that's what we were doing. And so you get to the end of the year and what happens? You've got retail partners that are full of inventory because you've undercut them, and they're not happy about holding your inventory. I think their quote was, your product's great, your customers love you, we just don't like doing business with you. That's where you put yourself in a relationship. And that happens when 40% of your results for the year are based in the fourth quarter. You're expecting big things on Black Friday. You kind of meet up. So what we did immediately, and I said, look, I've run for 14 years companies of very premium brands with a big DTC component, but you need to treat your partners in a very special way. You make the most money on your own sales DTC, so I love DTC. Cash flow is better. Margins are better, you control your destiny, you talk to your consumer directly, it's great. But to be a great brand, you need key retail partners, and to do that, you need to have your promotional calendars coordinated, you need to have a map strategy out there that makes sense so your margins stay whole, and you're a premium brand. You're a Bose, you're an Apple, you're not out there promoting 365 days a year. So we changed the entire calendar. We went out and talked to all our retailers. We told them, hey, we're changing our ways. And they believe it now because it happened from the week after I was there for the next six months. The problem was we loaded retailers with inventory in 24. They were stacked with inventory and then we undercut them with pricing. So we walked into the year holding probably nine to 12 months almost worth of inventory at our key retail partners on the solo stove side. So a very difficult situation and so we've been really living through a hangover but We're doing the right things to become a premium brand in how you work with your retail partners. Marketing effectiveness, you know, with the spend over 20% at 100 million, you know, I can't tell you. Let's see, I negotiated out of what, three, four contracts Laura and I worked on. We had signed some big deals. This was a young company that went public because they had so much momentum. They were selling so many smokeless fire pits. They went from zero to 300 million in three or four years. They were taking big swings. Cash was falling out everywhere. I'm going to acquire this company. I'm going to sign up with a hundred million dollar media deal if they take some inventory from me. There was just a lot of things done that weren't, let's just say with the business intent and detailed focus that it needed, and we really had to unwind all of that. And so, spent a lot of time in that first quarter doing that. Eliminate high cost, low return marketing partnerships, I think I covered that one. I love direct-to-consumer, I love performance marketing, and you gotta figure out, is every dollar spent really returning to you? And so now we wake up every morning, we got a metric that we see, and we know exactly the contribution margin dollars delivered from that day before exactly to the bottom line of the company, and we measure it by profitability with every single product, by every single ad, by every single medium we place it in, and it is so fun. Because the sales team was like, I am never gonna hit these DTC numbers, John. I don't get to out-promote, I don't get to undercut everybody.

Speaker 2

I gotta be aligned with our map strategy.

John Larson, CEO

And I said, you just need to hit the profit numbers.

Speaker 2

So right now we're hitting more profit at 70% of the top line

John Larson, CEO

than we were making last year at the other numbers there simply because you've controlled margins, you've managed it the right way, you have marketing spend that is now far more effective. And our marketing spend is now in the teens, which is great for a consumer brand. That's not low by any means, but it's in the mid-teens versus over 20% despite our revenue decline. So what happened as we walked through all of that? We got our debt refinanced. So in the midst of going through these changes and challenges, we did get our debt refinanced, we got runway through 2028, we felt good about that. We worked through with the auditors, they saw the plan that's in place, the bank saw the plan in place, showed confidence in us and we removed our going concern disclaimer came off of our financials.

Speaker 2

So we felt much better about that.

John Larson, CEO

The NYSC, we had a meeting with them, having a little debate about whether we should have been delisted or not, at least their trading being suspended. We had a meeting set up in New York for, I think it was the 17th of, was it July? I think it was July. And they called us up the week in advance and they said you've satisfied every single requirement that was the reason you were delisted to begin with, so we don't need to have the meeting, we're going to relist you on the exchange. And we thought, you know what, this is a new beginning, let's call us SBDS because it was available and it sounds like solo brands versus being DTC which was a different time when the company was put together just to be a DTC operational machine. That was a busy two or three months and I tell you, you were this close to getting your refinancing done and on a Friday some guy would announce amazing tariff changes and you'd have to redo the model all day Saturday and all day Sunday to say you've got to be kidding me, okay, so how do I have a financeable model here that makes sense within this window, and you think you had it good, and then the next Thursday, it would happen again. Laura and her team, just a tremendous job, and I think when they walked through the plan that we had with the banks, they said, we believe in the management team and the strategy you have, so you know, we're going to work with you, so we felt really good about at least giving ourselves an opportunity here to win. But let me talk truly about performance, and let's be straight and honest here. Second quarter results, $132 million in sales last year, $92 million this year. A true hangover at Solostow of our biggest division. What was 60% of our revenue? Retailers full of inventory. I'm no longer undercutting them on the DTC model side. I'm working through the start of the year. I'm not getting replant orders. We were working through a hangover for sure. Yes, sir. Not really. Not much at all. They kept it. They kept it. Right. But here's my version of it. I'll give you an example of one retailer. Okay. This retailer ordered $22 million of product from us in 2024. This year so far, they've ordered $560,000 dollars from us okay but I have their sell-through data and the sell-through data in the same time frame was within a million dollars of eleven or ten million dollars so so what we're getting in actual results right now isn't representative of how the product is selling through but they're just working through that heavy inventory overhang right now what I am really proud about those if you look at top line down forty million and our EBITDA down four

Speaker 2

million if you look at our gross margins over 60 you look at contribution

John Larson, CEO

margins are flow through, probably close to 45% organizationally. You lose 40 million in revenue, you lose 18 million in EBITDA. If we walked into this meeting today, I'm just glad you're having the meeting with me today, but if we were showing 15 and negative three, it'd be a different story. Really proud about the lower left-hand corner, what we've done in SG&A. So taking SG&A down 23 million has allowed us to still deliver to the bottom line despite the very aggressive sales hangover we've been working through so far. And to get even more honest, it's a tale of two brands. Most of what I've been talking to you about has been Solo Stove, our biggest brand and the challenges we have faced. But the reality is Chubbies is having a spectacular first half of the year. The beauty for us is Chubbies is a first half of the year product and Solo Stove is the back half. So for our distribution centers, warehouses, staffing and all that, it's a real nice fit for us. But thank goodness for Chubbies and the results they've had and had a really strong first six months of the year and feel really bullish about the opportunities with Chubbies and expansion going forward. I'll talk about that briefly. Solos still have a different story, but for all the things I've already talked to you about at this point in time. Okay, so I'd like to take you through some of the products here. So this is that fourth box, talking about product innovation and launch and what we have to do. And I'm a product guy through and through, period. It's all I care about. You have great products you're going to win. I joked about Shark Ninja before, you know. I get an AI update that's sent to me every week about top competitors, how they're performing, what they're doing. And unfortunately for my team, that means we don't really have excuses about all the other macro things people like to talk about. You need to do it with great product. There was already a plan in place. And a lot of research was done with Bain previously at the company to me coming in and identified where does Solo Stove have an opportunity to grow. and it really identified outdoor cooking and outdoor cooling and it said you're an outdoor lifestyle brand people love your product you're not going to grow continuing to build stainless steel fire pits that last forever and have a lifetime warranty because you've already sold close to 3 million of them so where is the opportunity and so we launched our first new product in the cooling space called the windchill 47 I'll have a video to show you briefly about it because we're kind of excited it gives you a little better description but it's basically a rolling air conditioner so it has the capability of an air conditioner you would put in a room so if you've got a patio or a screen in porch or something you can put in there actually cools it on a hot summer day if you're out there or sitting in your your chair having a beer and that's sitting next to you it is blowing cool mist over the top of you and keeping you as cool as you could be but I think the funniest videos are all the kids at the club sports events when they're playing soccer or baseball in the middle of summer, and the parent who walks in with this and has the mister going, every kid is sticking their face in it and fighting, and everyone wants to be around there. So really unique technology, well executed. The product team that we put in place prior to me being at Solo Stove is an excellent team and feel great about that product and the reviews. Next, we launched the Steelfire Griddle. That just came out recently and we sold out of every one we had produced to begin with. We're anxiously waiting and taking many orders a day for more of the Steelfire Griddle. And what I'll tell you about this is what a crowded category. And to jump in with the Traegers and the Green Eggs and everybody else in this space and the Blackstones and say, how are we going to compete? But what the team stayed with is we're a premium brand. And so it is the only brand in this, and I will say not the highest end chef in the thousands and thousands of dollars that actually has a stainless steel cooking surface. Easy to clean, heats immediately, has a burner system that we call it the racetrack burner system that has no cold spots. It's oval shaped like solo stoves so it's unique in the space and it has just had rave reviews. We are so excited about that product. In addition we have two more products coming, one in three weeks and another one in Q4. Very excited about it. So in addition to ancillary spaces, you know, my general belief is we need to reinvigorate or reignite, excuse the pun, the smokeless fire pit space. And so innovation in that space is going to be critical to us being great going forward and expanding smokeless fire pits into kind of the outdoor space. So very excited about that. And why don't I go then to our videos. I have to use the mouse so if I'm technically competent, we'll see if we'll show you. So the first one is the cooler which we just launched. And this will give you a little better feeling for what we're doing in the outdoors. So if you're tennis fans, I know the US Open is going on now, but the real precursor to the US Open is the Cincinnati Open. And so they ordered these coolers and put them on both sides for their players. So in all the changeover seating, there are the solo stove coolers blowing, keeping them cool, sitting out there as they changeover between events and it's you know it's a unique it's a high-end product really well executed and if my engineer were here he would tell you about the ball bearings and the wheels to make it roll the best so it can be so simply talk about how the handle pulls out and he runs his finger along saying do you see how we did this it's great and so you know the level of focus is what we need as a premium brand and we're excited about that product next is the griddle and this is so fun we were making smash burgers we had a big event with all of our employees in town. We made everyone cook on it, use it, get it. It's spectacular, so hopefully I can get it to play here for you. So how many people have cooked on a griddle before? You got to season it. You got to keep it right. You hope it doesn't rust over time when it just sits there. All that work and the cleanup on it, oh, my gosh, getting some of the stuff on it. I mean, it's great and all that. This is unbelievable. You don't even have to put oil on it. You can just put the stuff right on there. At the end, the cleanup, it rolls to a little trap door, and it's done and cleaned up, and it looks like a million bucks. It's propane. It's propane, and we're looking for a natural gas conversion kit for it so people could build it in if they like. Yeah, so this one, funny story about that, but I won't tell you that one. We call it the SteelFire 30 because it's about 30 inches wide in surface area. We haven't announced anything publicly, but there are other sizes that would seem to make a lot of sense as well. Right. Sure. Yep. Yeah, it's a great size. You know, others are. Yep. Great. Great. Well, I'll get your name and we'll send you one. It's okay. And in 26, we have just as aggressive, if not more aggressive product rollout strategy, and it's going to be in the outdoor cooling and in the cooking space, as you see, and probably in the fire pit space as well. You told me there's a way to go to the next slide without playing this again. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. That's the right one. Thanks. I appreciate it. I like movies better anyway. Okay. So that was Solo Stove and the products we're really excited about. Then you talk about Chubbies. They launched a couple of products this year and it was unbelievable that two inch inseam short was a hit. We sold out immediately. You know, Chubby's, this is very irreverent if you haven't been part of it as a brand. The quality of the clothes are amazing, shirts, shorts. Really started with swimsuits and is really hitting on all cylinders. And when they went to this kind of on-the-edge two-inch inseam, it's kind of a joke internally about how successful it's been, but it has been hugely successful and sold out for us. We're now launching a whole line of NFL gear to start with the year. So all the teams, we've licensed agreements to have products around that space. And when you think about Chubby's, all in the men's space, great retail partners, great success, huge growth this year, both retail and in our DTC model. So when you have 30%, 40% growth in some of your retail deal and you still increase on DTC, it tells you how strong the brand is really healthy in the marketplace right now. And so maybe that brand should expand into some other verticals here in the apparel space. So we're really excited about what Chubby's has coming forward. I haven't talked about water sports a lot. It's 10% of our business. Some great products. I have a handful of these products. I have three of them that are on the screen and have been using them this summer. And so we have a lot of unique technology on the Oro side and Isle side. we have kind of an origami folding kayak that we're most known for in the Oro brand, which is amazing. You can put it in the trunk of your car. It weighs 22 pounds. You carry it like a briefcase. You fold it out, put a few straps, and you've got a kayak on the water, one of our cool products. And ILR, other division, has some very unique things. This flywater skiff on the right continues to be sold out over and over again. It's a unique boat. You can fish out of it. You can stand on a platform, and the structure is crazy. But there's an all-new product coming in Q4 that we're so excited to launch, which I can't tell you the specifics about it, but in about two months you'll see it, and we think it's a whole new category that could really blow up for Isle in terms of our unique inflatable space. All right, so quickly, kind of what we talked about today, hey, we came into the year tough, okay? Our performance wasn't what it should be. We got great brands. We got the basis for a great company moving forward, but the reality is we had a lot of work we had to get through to get the refinancing done, et cetera, to get rid of the going concern. We now have the financing we need. Now we need to grow our way into financing to pay it down and really start delivering for the shareholders. We've made big moves to take structural costs down, which I feel great about. We've got a huge product line development coming. And in the end, our CapEx expenditures for new products is very small as a percent of our total revenue. So there was no reason not to lean in if you're a premium brand to do that. So when you're spending X amount on marketing and you hadn't had a new product in your core brand space in three years, it was time to lean in and really go with an aggressive product program as we move out. There's a lot of critical work for us to do. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it here. Fourth quarter's gonna be big for us. Again, it's a large percentage of our volume. We need to show that all the initiatives we put in place are gonna deliver. But in the end, I'm really energized. It's the reason I'm sitting here because we got great brands. We got great products coming. It was a challenge coming in, but I'm excited with the products, the brand, and the team we have in place to get it done. So why should you invest in us? because now you're getting in at the bottom. I mean, that's the bottom line. We are a clear leader in our core markets. Fire pits, our pizza ovens are amazing. I make pizzas in them all the time and I have so much fun. I become Giuseppe, my alter ego when I'm making pizzas, but they're great products. We have a passionate community of people who do love our products. You know, we're in the premium segment. We're not going in the bottom fighting with all the lower end competitors there on Amazon that would come after you, we're gonna stay premium, we understand where we sit. Clear adjacencies, where Solo Stove was, we've seen that through the research and the initial response to the griddle's been so strong, we feel like we have a real hit there with some success. The management team's in place. Our balance sheet is really clean now. You know, we have payables, all the things you do when you're struggling as a company right now. But right now, balance sheet is very clean, we're in a good space, We delivered operating cash flow of $11 million despite sales going down in the second quarter because we're making all the right decisions, managing working capital directly, managing to the bottom line. And we did accomplish a significant resizing of the company to put us in place to start delivering to the shareholders. So with that, I'll wrap it up and open it up to any questions anyone has.

Speaker 2

Got to plant a question.

John Larson, CEO

You blew your wad during the presentation.

Speaker 2

No, I've given those two hits. I like to fit. You're getting in on the bottom. Yeah.

John Larson, CEO

Yep. Home Depot, Bass Pro Shops, Dick's Sporting Goods, Shields. Those are kind of our key retailers. There's some other on the apparel side. We've got some Dunhams. We have Kohl's. We've been in a number of places. But really, premium brands, we're focusing on those key critical accounts that get you great positioning and product. And DSG has been truly great for Chubbies. They were bragging their wall sold $2 million the other week and continue to give us more space. Well, let me tell you, that changed a lot over the tariff window and moving around. All different parts of Asia, whether it's Vietnam, Cambodia, some in China, some in Mexico right now, And I will say, given we were going through the refinancing and the uncertainty around tariffs, it forced us to get so on top of the tariff issue on exactly, we have costing by every major product, by every partner, by where have you sourced the steel from, given the steel tariffs that do exist, and went through a very thorough analysis, but not just that, within a month, we had moved some of our manufacturing already to other places. So there's been a pretty broad shift in where we're manufactured. Right now, not in the U.S. And we haven't made any public announcements, but we're continuing to evaluate each area and nearshoring is certainly one of the options. Yeah, yeah, it really has. You know, part of it was we had had a previous supplier for our core products and they happen to be in a different Asian country in Vietnam. And so we went back to them. It was better to be dual sourced and the quality's been great good question I know we're getting close to the end they're telling me I'm

Speaker 2

over yes yeah yeah no I think there's a lot of

John Larson, CEO

innovation that can be had there and so hang on a few weeks and maybe you'll we'll get your take on it too yeah no I think there's great opportunities and there's great ancillary accessories they can go with it and I think there's things you can do differently and my product team thinks I'm crazy but there's a lot of new things that we're gonna be doing there yeah okay anyone else. Okay, great. Thank you for your time. I really appreciate your time.