Earnings Call Transcript - SHOO Q2 2025

Operator, Operator

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Second Quarter 2025 Steve Madden Limited Earnings Conference Call. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Danielle McCoy, VP of Corporate Development and Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Danielle Marie McCoy, VP of Corporate Development and Investor Relations

Thanks, Stephen, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining our Second Quarter 2025 Earnings Call and webcast. Before we begin, I'd like to remind you that our remarks that follow, including answers to your questions, contain statements that we believe to be forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks that could cause actual results to materially differ from those expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements. These risks include, among others, matters that we have described in our press release issued earlier today and filings that we make with the SEC. We disclaim any obligation to update these forward-looking statements, which may not be updated until our next quarterly earnings conference call, if at all. The financial results discussed on today's call are on an adjusted basis, unless otherwise noted. A reconciliation to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measure and other associated disclosures are contained in our earnings release. Joining me on the call today is Ed Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Zine Mazouzi, Chief Financial Officer and Executive Vice President of Operations. With that, I'll turn the call over to you, Ed. Ed?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, Danielle. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us to review Steve Madden's second quarter 2025 results. As anticipated, the second quarter was extremely challenging, driven largely by the impact of new tariffs on goods imported into the United States. As we highlighted on the last earnings call, our team moved swiftly to adapt to the changing landscape, sharply diversifying our sourcing out of China, negotiating meaningful discounts with suppliers and implementing surgical price increases. That said, wholesale customers canceled orders and reduced open-to-buys, shipment delays led to lost sales and pushed deliveries to later periods and organic gross margins declined due to the significant increase in our landed costs, resulting in substantial pressure on both revenue and earnings. Since the last call, our team has remained focused on mitigating near-term impacts while positioning the company for long-term growth. We've continued to move forward with our sourcing diversification efforts, although due to the agreement reached with the Chinese government to temporarily reduce the new tariff on Chinese imports from 145% to 30%. We have moved certain production for the fall back to China, where we felt it would be difficult to ensure on-time delivery, appropriate product quality and/or reasonable pricing in an alternative country. For fall 2025, we currently expect to source approximately 30% of our U.S. imports from China, down from 71% for the full year 2024. We are also selectively raising prices to wholesale customers and consumers. So far, we've been pleased overall with consumer acceptance of the price increases, particularly on new fashion, but it's still early, and we will continue to monitor the elasticity of demand carefully and react accordingly. While these short-term mitigating actions are important, our team's primary focus remains on positioning the company for long-term growth by executing our strategy to deepen consumer connections through the combination of compelling product and effective marketing. Our design teams are delivering strong assortments, and we're seeing positive consumer response to new fashion offerings, particularly in the dress shoe and boot categories across both DTC and wholesale channels, including very strong performance in the Nordstrom anniversary event. And we are amplifying these assortments with marketing campaigns and initiatives designed to drive sustained brand heat and cultural relevance. In the flagship brand, we are capitalizing on Steve's appearance on the fashion podcast, the Cutting Room Floor, which sparked viral interest on TikTok by continuing to rebalance our marketing spend across the funnel, increasing our investment in top and mid-funnel tactics and diversifying our spend by channel, expanding our investment in YouTube, Pinterest and Snapchat. And these efforts are driving results with measurable increases in awareness and consideration for the brand with our key Gen Z and millennial consumers. Another key priority is integrating our new acquisition, Kurt Geiger, which closed May 6. The Kurt Geiger London brand continues to have strong momentum, and we are more confident than ever in its potential to be a significant driver of growth for the company in the years ahead. The integration is proceeding smoothly, and our teams are making strong progress on work streams related to revenue synergies, including expanding Kurt Geiger in international markets through the Steve Madden network and growing Steve Madden in the U.K. through the Kurt Geiger platform as well as cost savings opportunities in areas like freight and logistics. So in sum, our financial performance in the second quarter was not up to our usual standards as we grappled with the impact of tariffs, and we know the path forward will continue to be bumpy in the near term. But as we look out further, we believe our core strengths, powerful brands, a robust balance sheet and a proven business model supplemented by a powerful new growth engine in Kurt Geiger, positions us well to navigate the current disruption and deliver sustainable growth over time. And now I'll turn it over to Zine to review our second quarter 2025 financial results in more detail.

Zine Mazouzi, Chief Financial Officer and Executive Vice President of Operations

Thanks, Ed, and good morning, everyone. In the second quarter, our consolidated revenue was $559 million, a 6.8% increase compared to the second quarter of 2024. Excluding the newly acquired Kurt Geiger, consolidated revenue decreased 10%. Our wholesale revenue was $360.6 million, down 6.4% compared to Q2 2024. Excluding Kurt Geiger, our wholesale revenue decreased 12.8%. Wholesale footwear revenue was $220.1 million, a 7.1% decrease from the comparable period in 2024 or down 11.7%, excluding Kurt Geiger. Wholesale accessories and apparel revenue was $140.4 million, down 5.3% compared to the second quarter in the prior year or down 14.6%, excluding Kurt Geiger. The majority of the organic decline in wholesale revenue can be attributed to order cancellations, lost orders due to delivery delays or pricing, shipments moved out to the following quarter and other impacts related to the disruption from tariffs. In our direct-to-consumer segment, revenue increased 43.3% to $195.5 million. Excluding Kurt Geiger, our direct-to-consumer revenue decreased 3% with declines in both the brick-and-mortar and e-commerce channels. We saw negative impact to DTC revenue in the quarter from canceled and delayed deliveries due to tariff-related disruption as well as systems migration we completed in the quarter. Looking ahead to the third quarter, we expect the continued impact from tariff-related disruption, but the systems implementations are behind us and should not have a further impact. We ended the quarter with 392 company-operated brick-and-mortar retail stores, including 98 outlets as well as 7 e-commerce websites and 130 company-operated concessions in international markets. This includes 73 company-operated brick-and-mortar retail stores, including 27 outlets as well as 2 e-commerce websites and 72 concessions related to Kurt Geiger. Our licensing royalty income was $2.9 million in the quarter compared to $1.8 million in the second quarter of 2024. Consolidated gross margin was 41.9% in the quarter compared to 41.5% in the comparable period of 2024. The impact of tariffs, net of supplier discounts resulted in 230 basis points of pressure to gross margin. This was offset by a significantly greater mix of higher-margin DTC business compared to the prior year due mostly to the acquisition of Kurt Geiger and a mix shift to DTC in the existing business. Wholesale gross margin was 31% compared to 33.1% in the second quarter of 2024, due primarily to pressure from tariffs. Direct-to-consumer gross margin was 61.3% compared to 64.3% in the comparable period in 2024, due primarily to the addition of Kurt Geiger, which had lower DTC margin in the quarter than the existing business, driven by the concessions business as well as pressure from tariffs. Operating expenses were $211.6 million or 37.9% of revenue in the quarter compared to $162.8 million or 31.1% of revenue in the second quarter of 2024. Operating income for the quarter was $22.6 million or 4% of revenue compared to $54.5 million or 10.4% of revenue in the comparable period in the prior year. The effective tax rate for the quarter was 25.6% compared to 23.4% in the second quarter of 2024. Finally, net income attributable to Steve Madden Limited for the quarter was $13.9 million or $0.20 per diluted share compared to $41.2 million or $0.57 per diluted share in the second quarter of 2024. Moving to the balance sheet. Our financial foundation remains strong. As of June 30, 2025, we had $293.5 million of outstanding debt and $111.9 million in cash, cash equivalents and short-term investments for a net debt of $181.6 million. Inventory was $437 million compared to $241.6 million in the second quarter of 2024. Excluding Kurt Geiger, inventory increased 1% compared to the same period last year. Our CapEx in the second quarter was $7.7 million. And during the second quarter, the company did not repurchase any shares of its common stock in the open market. The company's Board of Directors approved a quarterly cash dividend of $0.21 per share. The dividend will be payable on September 23, 2025, to stockholders of record as of the close of business on September 12, 2025. Due to the continued uncertainty related to the impact of new tariffs on goods imported into the United States, we will not be providing 2025 financial guidance at this time. Now I would like to turn the call over to the operator for questions.

Operator, Operator

Our first question comes from Paul Lejuez of Citi.

Paul Lawrence Lejuez, Analyst

Curious if you can talk about which channels of wholesale where you see the significant order cancellations that impacted 2Q? And how has that ordering behavior changed as we've gotten a little bit more clarity on the tariff front? I think you mentioned some shipment timing. So if you can maybe just talk about that a little bit more. And then also on the gross margin pressure in the core business in the second quarter that you saw as a result of higher tariffs. Can you frame maybe what you expect in 3Q and 4Q relative to the 2Q pressure?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

In terms of the channels that experienced pressure due to tariff-related disruptions, it was primarily in the value price segments, specifically the mass and off-price channels. Notably, about 95% of the wholesale revenue shortfall in the organic business compared to last year was due to these two channels, which illustrates the impact clearly. Looking ahead, I expect continued pressure in these channels. Although conditions have improved with both channels resuming orders, there will still be an effect in Q3. Regarding gross margin pressure from tariffs, it amounted to about 230 basis points, net of supplier discounts for Q2. While we are not providing forward guidance, it’s likely that we will continue to see a significant impact in Q3. However, by Q4, we hope the situation will begin to improve.

Paul Lawrence Lejuez, Analyst

Does 3Q mark the weakest point in terms of the tax impact on gross margin in 3Q?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Again, I'm not going to try to get specific and there's so many moving parts here. But certainly, I don't think it will get better.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Aubrey Tianello of BNP Paribas.

Aubrey Leland Tianello, Analyst

I wanted to go back to your comments on price. And if you could maybe comment a little bit on just the consumer response to price increases, what you're seeing in terms of elasticity maybe by product category. And I think last quarter, you mentioned price increases on average about 10%. Is that still the way we should think about it given the change in tariffs?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. We are still aiming for average price increases of 10%. This is not a uniform figure, as we evaluate it at a style level. On average, we expect prices to rise by about 10%. So far, we are quite pleased with how consumers have accepted these price increases. It has largely gone as anticipated, with minimal resistance on new fashion items, especially in trending categories like dress shoes and summer boots, which have performed really well for us. However, we find there is less flexibility to increase prices in the sandal category and fashion sneakers. I would like to note that it's still early since we started implementing these price changes in May, which coincides with the end of the season and the beginning of markdowns. Therefore, we will have a clearer picture once we fully enter the fall season with new deliveries at the higher prices, and we will also see how our competitors price their products as well.

Aubrey Leland Tianello, Analyst

Got it. And then maybe on Kurt Geiger, you called it out as being on a journey to being a $1 billion brand. Now that you've owned it for a few months, can you talk about some of the things you've learned and how you're thinking about that path to potentially getting to $1 billion in revenue from Kurt Geiger?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

We feel more optimistic than ever after spending considerable time delving into the business and collaborating with the team. They are a strong group, and we believe the brand has significant potential for growth. The U.S. business has been a remarkable success story in recent years, but we are just starting to tap into its full capabilities. Additionally, brand awareness is still relatively low. Therefore, one of our priorities in the next few years in the United States will be to enhance that brand awareness. Retail stores will play an essential role in this effort. Currently, we have opened six retail locations in the U.S. that are performing well. These stores are impressive and effectively illustrate what the brand represents while communicating the Kurt Geiger lifestyle to consumers. This will be a key aspect of our strategy. We will also invest in marketing, focusing initially on full-price stores, though we recognize the potential for outlet stores to become significant and profitable in the long run. Furthermore, we have a solid wholesale business in the U.S. with a few key partners, and there is room for growth there as well. On top of that, our digital business is crucial and is experiencing strong momentum that we will continue to support. This outlines our U.S. story, but there is also considerable potential globally. They already have a robust presence in the U.K., but their growth in other parts of the world is still in the early stages. Europe presents a substantial opportunity, as they are strategically located in many key markets where demand is high. We believe there's an excellent opportunity to expand distribution thoughtfully and build that business. Additionally, Mexico is already seeing success, and there is immense potential throughout the rest of Central and South America. Asia remains largely untapped. Overall, this brand has incredible growth potential around the world.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Marni Shapiro of The Retail Tracker.

Marni Shapiro, Analyst

I was wondering if you could discuss a few quick topics. Regarding the apparel business, I understand it's a smaller segment, but you seem to be improving your presence in various stores, and the product flow has been steady and very good. Could you elaborate on that? Additionally, I wanted to revisit the boot business. You had a strong performance in boots during spring, and I'm curious if that momentum continued through summer. As we approach back-to-school, what trends are you observing in boots compared to sneakers, and what is your sense of where the business is headed for the upcoming season?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I appreciate your comments about Steve Madden apparel because we are proud of the progress we're making there. It was one of the few businesses that experienced growth for us this quarter. Despite the challenging environment, we saw nice revenue growth in Steve Madden apparel. We've been gradually expanding distribution while maintaining premium pricing and increasing our assortments in existing locations. Most importantly, the product is selling well, and our team is doing a fantastic job. We are excited about the direction we're heading. Regarding boots, that has been a highlight for us in both spring and summer. The performance of boots has become less seasonal, as girls are now wearing them with dresses, shorts, and skirts. We have really excelled in this area. It has been more successful in our direct-to-consumer channels compared to wholesale, as some wholesale partners have not yet adapted to current consumer shopping trends. However, we feel positive about the future of boots. We've noticed increased energy in that category, while the fashion sneaker segment has softened a bit.

Marni Shapiro, Analyst

That makes sense. Could you provide a follow-up? I believe you mentioned that the off-price and mass segments were experiencing a slowdown. You also briefly touched on some cancellations. Were those cancellations coming from the mass segment? Is it due to their customers, or is it related to their caution or the price increases they can manage? I'm interested in what they are hearing and observing compared to what the department stores are experiencing.

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I would say there were cancellations across channels, although, again, the biggest issues were in mass and off-price. And particularly in Q2, I just want to point out with the mass channel because we do a lot of the business that we do in those channels on an FOB basis where our customers are bringing the goods in and they are the important record and therefore, they are responsible for the tariff. Certainly, when we were looking at 145% tariffs out of China, they were canceling a lot of merchandise. So that was a lot of what you're seeing there.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Sam Poser of Williams Trading.

Samuel Marc Poser, Analyst

I just want to follow up on that last question. You talked about the 95% of the downdraft was from those channels. Were there channels that were up in the quarter? And if so, what within wholesale or brands that were up like Steve Madden, the core Steve Madden business or Dolce and so on?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I think Betsey Johnson was up in the quarter. We're really outperforming there. The team is doing a great job with the product there. Other than that, I think the key brands and channels were down in the quarter.

Samuel Marc Poser, Analyst

And moving on to sourcing, you were shifting some product to Brazil, but now Brazil seems to be causing significant issues. How are you approaching the change in sourcing? I initially thought Brazil and Mexico would play a larger role, but now it appears that a 50% tariff could hinder some of that in Brazil. I was just curious about your direction on this.

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. In response to your question, we have been concentrating on shipping a significant amount of product to Brazil. However, we need to observe how the situation unfolds. This applies not only to Brazil but also to many other countries we engage with. We have made efforts to establish a more diversified sourcing strategy. Nevertheless, there remains considerable uncertainty regarding the final tariff rates for each country. We will monitor the developments and adjust our approach as needed. That is all we can do.

Samuel Marc Poser, Analyst

When considering the wholesale perspective, excluding Kurt Geiger, it appears that the second half of the year, particularly Q3, may resemble Q2 and perhaps show some slight improvement. How are you evaluating the current responses you're observing on the wholesale side? I understand you prefer not to provide guidance, but what are your thoughts on the situation?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Well, yes, we're not giving guidance, but I think you should assume that there will be continued impact from the tariff-related disruption. I think that's all as much as we're going to say about that.

Samuel Marc Poser, Analyst

Have you noticed any impact on consumers yet, or do you think this reflects more on the concerns of your wholesale partners regarding consumer behavior?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. Overall, I think the consumer is basically hanging in there. I would say it's not the most robust consumer spending environment for fashion I've ever seen, but it's okay.

Samuel Marc Poser, Analyst

Can you discuss the differences between your store and e-commerce performance in the DTC business for Kurt Geiger? Did the physical stores outperform e-commerce, or did e-commerce show better year-over-year results?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

E-commerce was quite a bit better than stores.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Corey Tarlowe of Jefferies.

Corey Tarlowe, Analyst

Just had a question for you on inventory. Is there any way to dimensionalize what was AUR versus units and the Kurt Geiger acquisition, just so we can have a bit of a more color and dimensionalization of what that up significantly number, what that number kind of dissects into?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. If you exclude Kurt Geiger, inventory increased by only 1% compared to the same period last year. There are a couple of factors influencing this. One is the tariffs we incur, which raise the inventory value. Additionally, longer transit times are also affecting the inventory. There are two aspects to consider here: first, the diversified transit times for sourcing; for example, shipments from Cambodia take longer than those from China. Second, due to overall disruptions, transit times have generally increased. For instance, the time from China to China is about 3 days longer than last year, and the same applies to shipments from Cambodia. These are the primary reasons. When excluding these factors and Kurt Geiger, our inventory level year-over-year aligns closely with the revenue decline.

Corey Tarlowe, Analyst

Okay. That's really helpful. I was wondering, could we also just run through a similar exercise with the OpEx as well because that was also up quite substantially, and it would be good to get a bit more color as to kind of what drove that.

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. Excluding Kurt Geiger, OpEx was up a little less than 3%.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Janine Stichter of BTIG.

Ethan Siavosh Saghi, Analyst

You have Ethan Saghi on for Janine. For my first question, I was just wondering on Kurt Geiger. Could you provide some more color on how the brand has performed since the acquisition closed as well as the current margin profile for the brand and where China sourcing sits today compared to the 80% number you gave last call?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

The brand continues to perform well. We are witnessing strong growth, particularly double-digit growth in digital, especially in the U.S., where performance and momentum are very strong. The new stores that have been opened are exceeding our expectations and are on track to achieve robust 4-wall profitability. Additionally, the brand is seeing positive comp growth in the U.K. and its existing footprint, which makes us feel optimistic about the momentum there. Regarding the margin profile, we’re not providing guidance, but to remind you, last year, the business had EBIT margins of about 9.3% prior to our acquisition. We expect that this number will decline slightly this year due to tariff pressures. However, we believe that over time, it will return to double digits along with profitability.

Ethan Siavosh Saghi, Analyst

Got it. And then on the China sourcing, just where it sits today compared to the 80% number you gave last call.

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. I am sorry. Yes. So I think that they're in the low 60s currently out of China.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Anna Andreeva of Piper Sandler.

Anna A. Andreeva, Analyst

To Zine. Just a follow-up on DTC on systems implementation. Did you say what that impact was to the second quarter? And curious what are you guys seeing in the DTC business quarter-to-date? And then to Ed, you've talked about getting back to double-digit margins in the past. Can you just talk about how we should think about that path of a margin recapture and just any time frame that you guys could provide?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Sure. In our direct-to-consumer business, we completed an ERP implementation and a new point-of-sale system in the second quarter. The team did a great job, but there was some disruption. This affected inventory movement, and for a time, our allocation was limited. We couldn't fulfill e-commerce orders from stores during this period, which impacted our operations. We estimate this accounted for about 110 basis points of comparable sales decline in the quarter. Additionally, we faced inventory disruptions due to tariffs, which likely added another 160 basis points to the impact because we had to cancel or delay orders. Fortunately, the system issues are fully resolved, and we don’t expect them to affect us moving forward. We've noticed a slight improvement in July compared to the second quarter in terms of comparable sales. Regarding getting our EBIT margins back to double digits, we cannot provide a specific timeline due to the uncertainty surrounding the tariff situation. Once we have clarity on that, we will share our plans and timelines.

Anna A. Andreeva, Analyst

Okay. That's very helpful. And just as a follow-up, do you think KG should be a higher-margin business over time than the core business?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I certainly think there's an opportunity for it to be, yes.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Tom Nikic of Needham.

Matthew Julius Quigley, Analyst

This is Matt Quigley on for Tom. Can you just talk a little bit more about how the international business performed in the quarter, excluding Kurt Geiger you've seen any differences in performance by region?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

We continue to see strong performance in our international business. Excluding Kurt Geiger, revenue was up around 8% for the quarter, or about 10% in constant currency. We are on track to achieve high single-digit growth for the year in dollars, with double-digit growth in constant currency. Additionally, we are experiencing growth across all three primary regions: EMEA, APAC, and Americas excluding the U.S., all expected to see high single-digit growth in U.S. dollars.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Dana Telsey of Telsey Advisory Group.

Dana Lauren Telsey, Analyst

As you think about current trends Z, how was the Nordstrom anniversary sale? Is there any indicators from that as I've always thought about it as a read forward to potential holiday and what you're seeing? And then when you think about the trends at Kurt Geiger and what you're seeing sell-through there, how is it different or the same of what you're seeing with your brands? And then a follow-up.

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

The Nordstrom anniversary event was very successful for us, and we're thrilled with the results. It was the best sell-through performance we've experienced in years, which gives us a lot of optimism for the upcoming fall season and the products our design team is developing. Regarding Kurt Geiger, the sell-through remains strong overall, and the brand is experiencing excellent momentum. We're also seeing solid sell-through for Steve Madden, Dolce Vita, and several other brands.

Dana Lauren Telsey, Analyst

Got it. Regarding Kurt Geiger, for the small portion in the U.S., are you raising prices similarly to the increases for Steve Madden? Also, how do you foresee the distribution of Kurt Geiger expanding in the U.S. in terms of timing? Will it be this year or next year?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. Regarding price increases, it's quite similar to what we're implementing in our other brands, possibly a bit more for Kurt Geiger. We believe we have a bit more flexibility there, so we might experiment with higher prices. As for distribution in the U.S., the main change will be the opening of more of our own retail stores in the coming years.

Operator, Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Jay Sole of UBS.

Unidentified Analyst, Analyst

This is Natalie on for Jay Sole. I wanted to ask about the amount of inventory you have on hand, especially for inventory coming from non-China. I mean do you have enough to last you through Q3 before the higher rates we're seeing from Cambodia, Vietnam and other countries go into effect? Or when would you expect the higher rate to kind of start flowing through the P&L?

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. Most of what we're going to deliver in Q3 would not be impacted. But as you know, we turn our inventory very quickly. And particularly in our wholesale business, we turn our inventory in and around 10 times a year. And so we do feel these impacts from tariffs when they're implemented earlier than others because we're bringing goods in and shipping them right out. So let's just keep that in mind.

Operator, Operator

I am showing no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn it back to Ed for closing remarks.

Edward R. Rosenfeld, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Okay. Well, thanks so much for joining us today. We hope you all have a great day, and we look forward to speaking with you on the next call.

Operator, Operator

All right. Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.