Earnings Call Transcript - UEIC Q4 2024

Operator, Operator

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Universal Electronics Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2024 Financial Results Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the comments over to your first speaker today, Kirsten Chapman from Alliance advisor of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Kirsten Chapman, Director of Investor Relations

Thank you, Gigi, and thank you all for joining us for the Universal Electronics fourth quarter and year end 2024 financial results conference call. By now, you should have received a copy of the press release. If you've not, please contact Alliance Advisors Investor Relations at (415) 433-3777 or visit the Investor Relations section of the website. This call is being broadcast live over the Internet. A webcast replay of this call, including any additional updated material non-public information that might be discussed during this call, will be available on the company's website at www.uei.com for one year. During this call, management may make forward-looking statements regarding future events and the future financial performance of the company and cautions you that these statements are just projections and actual results or events may differ materially from those projections. These statements include the company's ability to continue capturing new product and new customer wins in the connected home space, particularly in climate control, HVAC and home automation, security and hospitality markets through the development and delivery of unique and innovative solutions, including the company's QuickSet technologies, TIDE platforms, energy harvesting sensors and solutions and excellent customer service as anticipated by management. Management's ability to manage its business and profitability through continued cost-saving initiatives, optimization of the company's manufacturing facilities and improvements in the company's cash flows. The company's abilities to capture potential upside opportunities in the home entertainment markets and particularly in the traditional subscription broadcasting due to its continued long lead market share and the stabilization of ordering patterns and the importance of the company's QuickSet differentiation and innovative remote control. The direct and indirect impact the company may experience with respect to its business and financial results stemming from the continued economic uncertainty affecting consumers' confidence and spending, rising energy and freight costs, natural disasters, governmental actions, including increasing tariffs on products brought into the U.S., reducing incentives to business worldwide, the risk of doing business or operating in certain parts of the world, and political unrest, including war, terrorist activities or other hostilities. The company undertakes no obligation to revise or update these statements to reflect events or circumstances that may arise after today's date and refers you to the press release mentioned at the onset of this call and the documents the company has filed with the SEC, including its 2023 annual report on Form 10-K and the periodic reports filed or furnished since then. In management's financial remarks, adjusted non-GAAP metrics will be referenced. Management provides adjusted non-GAAP metrics because it uses them for budget planning purposes and for making operational and financial decisions, and believes that providing these non-GAAP financial measures to investors, as a supplement to GAAP financial measures helps investors evaluate UEI's core operating and financial performance and business trends consistent with how management evaluates such performance and trends. In addition, management believes these measures facilitate comparisons with the core operating and financial results and business trends of competitors in other companies. A full description and reconciliation of these adjusted non-GAAP measures versus GAAP are included in the company's press release issued today. Also, the company will no longer exclude excess manufacturing overhead costs, resulting from the continued transition of its global manufacturing footprint, specifically in Mexico and Vietnam, and depreciation related to the markup from cost to fair market value of fixed assets acquired in business combinations from its adjusted non-GAAP figures. This impact adjusted non-GAAP gross profit, gross margin, operating income or loss, income or loss before provision or benefit of income taxes and net income or loss in the quarterly results for 2023 and 2024. There is no impact to GAAP results. A reconciliation of these measures is posted on the website in the Q4 2024 quarterly results section. On the call today are Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Paul Arling, who will deliver an overview, and Chief Financial Officer, Bryan Hackworth, who will summarize the financials. Paul will then return to provide closing remarks and open the call for questions. It's now my pleasure to introduce Paul Arling. Please go ahead, sir.

Paul Arling, CEO

Thank you, Kirsten, and thank you all for joining us today. I'm excited to report in Q4 2024, our team's efforts delivered sales growth of 13% and improved EPS by $0.24 per share compared to the fourth quarter a year ago. We exceeded both our own projections and consensus. Over the past few years, we have been executing initiatives to support new customer acquisition and long lead design wins to fuel ongoing sales growth, particularly in the connected home, which is a large and growing market. During Q4, our connected home business increased momentum with several new products shipping, and that is beginning to scale as new orders have increased towards the tail end of the quarter. We are excited that our perseverance and commitment to this channel are starting to show results. Over the past few years, we have managed costs and optimized our manufacturing footprint, improving our profitability. The combination of these accomplishments has strengthened our financial foundation and underpins our projections for top and bottom-line growth for full year 2025 and beyond. Turning to a review of our markets. In the connected home market, which includes HVAC and home automation, security and hospitality, we continue to gain traction with new customers and build on existing relationships we already have across many of the top OEM brands in North America, Europe and Asia. These include Daikin, Carrier, Vivint, Somfy, Fujitsu, Mitsubishi and Metis. In Q4, revenues benefited from a full quarter of shipments of new products launched during Q3 as well as new products introduced during the quarter. Now we are starting to win additional projects with satisfied repeat customers, leading to a strong pipeline of new products that will fuel long-term revenue growth. Our share of the climate control market is growing and Q4 results are evidence that we are well-positioned to deliver on our long-term growth strategy. In home entertainment, including video service providers, consumer electronics and our AV accessories retail business, TV demand increased in the second half of 2024 with shipments growing slightly across all regions. This was especially true in North America and Western Europe, though the growth in TV shipments was driven primarily at the lower end of the market. In Q4, video subscriber declines at some of our key accounts narrowed compared to prior years, reflecting new pricing and packaging of video service products introduced earlier in the year. As a result, some of our major customers increased overall order quantities during the quarter positively impacting our Q4 performance. Many of our reasons for optimism, both near and long-term, were highlighted at the International Consumer Electronics Show in January. The event was a major success for us. We received strong interest in our new products and technologies from many of our new accounts in Connected Home as well as existing customers who want us to bring new features and functionality to their platforms. I'll review a few of the highlights. We introduced groundbreaking QuickSet HomeSense technology, while protecting user privacy. QuickSet HomeSense adds a layer of on-device intelligence that learns from the home environment and location of connected devices and adapts to optimize device usage based on user preferences. We unveiled new capabilities in our UEI TIDE family that enhance climate control and energy management by resolving key friction points and providing on-device actionable insights. Elevating the role of smart thermostats within the home, benefits include managing multiple heating and AC systems, central, space and other integrated in a single controller, as well as providing optimized climate control and energy savings. We offered a sneak peek of the next gen UEI TIDE Pro platform with a larger higher resolution display and support for on-device AI processing and other communication protocols. The new architecture introduces an advanced software framework, enabling the development of operating systems and graphical user interfaces under a limited power budget. In our customer discussions, this climate control platform is considered the ideal solution for many of our OEM customers, who are looking to bring their proprietary protocol technologies to smart thermostats, to give consumers optimal HVAC system control, while delivering a better predictive and preventive maintenance service that many other smart thermostats sold at retail cannot do. This new climate control platform runs UEI's latest QuickSet Widget Pro module. This high-performance processor enables complex tasks such as edge AI processing, video stream decoding and enhanced security features to protect user data and ensure the integrity of the smart home ecosystem. We introduced QuickSet 7 SDK and the new QuickSet Cloud capabilities to further expand monetization opportunities for our OEMs through better personalization and increased user engagement. QuickSet Cloud now supports a broader range of device and content sources spanning video and audio consumption in the home. Moving toward the promise of private and intelligent homes, QuickSet 7 now learns and adapts to changes in the home to precisely target the right audience at the optimal moment, delighting the user and maximizing monetization potential for entertainment and smart home brands. In addition to CES, earlier this year, we announced our collaboration with Somfy in the Connected Home space. We've been working with Somfy for several years now to create innovative products and solutions that deliver a better motorized shade control experience, such as their latest outdoor remote lineup and energy harvesting sensors. Consumers will benefit from enhanced comfort and convenience, including saved favorites, reduced energy consumption by adjusting interior temperature based on outside conditions, and low energy power consumption complying with Somfy's Act for green requirements. With that, I'll turn the call over to Bryan. Please go ahead.

Bryan Hackworth, CFO

Thank you, Paul. I'll review the results for the fourth quarter of 2024 compared to the fourth quarter of 2023. As previously noted, our adjusted non-GAAP financial statements no longer exclude excess manufacturing overhead costs, resulting from our factory footprint transition and depreciation related to the markup from cost to fair value of fixed assets acquired in business combinations. These changes are reflected in the year-to-date 2024 financials, as well as the corresponding prior year periods. These adjustments have no effect on our GAAP financials. For the fourth quarter ending December 31, 2024, costs associated with the aforementioned items amounted to $700,000, equivalent to 70 basis points of gross margin or $0.04 per share. For the fourth quarter of 2023, costs for these items were $1.6 million, equivalent to 160 basis points of gross margin or $0.11 per share. Please keep these figures in mind when reviewing our quarterly results. For the fourth quarter of 2024, net sales were $110.5 million, a 13% increase over last year's fourth quarter sales of $97.6 million. Sales exceeded the high end of our guidance range of $109 million due primarily to an increase of orders in the Connected Home channel, specifically for Climate Control products. Although not all these orders were shipped as of year-end, we were required under GAAP to recognize this revenue approximating $4 million in the fourth quarter. We expect this positive Connected Home trend to continue. While the home entertainment channel still faces headwinds, we continue to see ordering patterns stabilizing. Gross profit in the fourth quarter of 2024 was $31.4 million, or 28.4% of sales compared to 28.5% in the fourth quarter of 2023. For the fourth quarter of 2024, operating expenses were $27.2 million compared to $27.6 million in the fourth quarter of 2023. SG&A expenses were reduced to $20.3 million from $21.1 million in the prior year quarter. R&D expenses increased to $6.9 million for the fourth quarter of 2024 compared to $6.5 million in the prior year quarter. Operating income was $4.2 million compared to $2 million in the fourth quarter of 2023. Net income for the fourth quarter of 2024 was $2.6 million or $0.2 per diluted share compared to a net loss of $500,000 or $0.04 per share in the fourth quarter of 2023. Next, I'll review our cash flow and balance sheet. At December 31, 2024, cash and cash equivalents were $26.8 million compared to $42.8 million at December 31, 2023. For the twelve months ending December 31, 2024, net cash provided by operating activities was $14.8 million, of which $8.4 million was used for internal investments. We reduced our outstanding line of credit by over $18 million in 2024, resulting in a net debt position at year-end of approximately $10 million. Now turning to our guidance. Several projects won over the past couple of years in the Connected Home channel have begun to ship, and we expect this trend to continue throughout 2025. As mentioned earlier, certain customers increased their orders for our climate control products, and although not all these orders were shipped as of year-end, we were required in our GAAP to recognize this revenue approximating $4 million in the fourth quarter. This essentially shifted revenue from Q1 2025 to Q4 2024. Taking this into consideration, for this first quarter of 2025, we expect sales to range from $87 million to $97 million compared to $91.9 million in the first quarter of 2024. We expect a net loss ranging from $0.21 to $0.11 per share compared to a loss of $0.26 per share in the first quarter of 2024.

Paul Arling, CEO

Thanks, Bryan. We closed 2024 as a much stronger and better positioned company than we were in 2023. And our financial performance in 2024 reflects that. Our commitment to the Connected Home market is beginning to pay off as our products and technologies are attracting new customers and the long lead design wins are beginning to come to fruition. This was also evident at CES this year as we unveiled innovative solutions to address customer needs and ultimately deliver end user benefits. Our advanced features and functionality appeal to a wide customer base as they ensure privacy, feature advanced technologies, support for on-device AI processing, and offer customer monetization opportunities through personalization and increased user engagement. While we've made great progress, there's still a way to go. Based on our recent successes, our orders and our strong pipeline, we are reiterating our projections for both top and bottom-line growth for full year 2025 and beyond. As always, stay tuned. Operator, we can now open up the call for questions.

Operator, Operator

Thank you. Our first question comes from Steven Frankel from Rosenblatt Securities.

Steven Frankel, Analyst

Good afternoon, Paul and Bryan. Thank you. Could we get a little more detail on this notion of climate control products that aren't going to be shipped until Q1, but their revenue recognition was in Q4? And maybe just help me understand what triggered that, and does that normalize after Q1?

Bryan Hackworth, CFO

Yes, it's Bryan. The accounting rules changed a handful of years back where basically you used to have to ship the product to record the revenue, but about five years ago things changed. I won't go through all the details of the rules, but essentially it has to be a customized product. You have to produce it and have a firm commitment, just to name a few. The bottom line is we received orders, increased in orders in the fourth quarter. We produced those products which are related to the connected home channel primarily in climate control. And because we produced them as of year-end, under the accounting rules, we were required to recognize the revenue. Under the old rules that revenue would have been recognized in Q1 upon shipment. But with the new rules, it gets recognized in Q4, which provided an additional $4 million of revenue in the fourth quarter.

Steven Frankel, Analyst

Okay. And then in your guidance, it seems to imply both an increase in expenses and a decrease in gross margin. Is that gross margin decrease just because you're missing that $4 million in revenue, so you dropped your run rate and are having some gross margin pressure, or was there something else going on?

Bryan Hackworth, CFO

I think the important thing with the gross margin for the full year, I don't have a change in outlook. I still expect it to be in last quarter. I think I said I expect the full year to be 30 points plus or minus one percentage point. So that hasn't changed. Q1 is typically light. When you have lower volume in the first quarter, you have lower production. So you're not absorbing the overhead as efficiently as you normally do. So that puts a little pressure on the gross margin rate. So, there is a little bit of pressure on the margin rate in Q1, but for the full year, I don't see a difference. I still expect it to be 30 points plus or minus one.

Steven Frankel, Analyst

And in general, OpEx should have what kind of shrink or growth on a year-over-year basis?

Bryan Hackworth, CFO

I don't expect it to be true. I expect OpEx to be similar. I think whatever wage inflation is that nature we're going to offset.

Steven Frankel, Analyst

And then what were your customer concentration numbers in Q4?

Bryan Hackworth, CFO

We had 210% customers, Daikin at 13.4% and Comcast at 10.7%.

Steven Frankel, Analyst

Nice to see that one back. And then maybe some detail on legal judgment that was mentioned in the footnotes.

Bryan Hackworth, CFO

Yes. As we previously reported, the U.S. Court of Appeals of the Federal Circuit affirmed our win against Roku. Roku then filed a request for a U.S. Supreme Court review of that decision. In mid-January, the U.S. Supreme Court denied Roku's request making the decision final. As a result, we expect to seek to get the two district court cases started or unstayed in 2025. We will update everyone as significant progress is made on this important matter.

Steven Frankel, Analyst

And there was a footnote having to do with a legal settlement and one of your factories in China. Is that also related to Roku, or is that something different?

Bryan Hackworth, CFO

No, that was a labor agency issue, and that related to prior years.

Operator, Operator

Thank you. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Greg Burns from Sidoti.

Greg Burns, Analyst

Good afternoon. How do tariffs factor into your outlook for 2025?

Paul Arling, CEO

That's a complex topic. The tariffs aren't fully resolved yet, and there is still much to unfold. Regarding China, we addressed this issue years ago. We only have a small amount of U.S.-bound products made in China, so our exposure there is minimal. Therefore, any developments with China aren’t particularly relevant to us unless situations change. In terms of potential tariffs in the Americas, there might be some impact, but we are already taking steps to minimize that. Our production in Mexico has significantly decreased, making the situation much smaller than before. We previously used that location to navigate tariffs from China, which we dealt with about six years ago, but production there has reduced considerably. As for tariffs, we recognize that the situation is fluid, and we may need to make adjustments and improve conditions if necessary. Should any changes occur, we will collaborate with customers to ensure appropriate pricing. We have demonstrated agility in this area in the past, and we will continue to monitor the situation closely. However, as it stands, anything related to China is not of significant concern to us. The situation with Mexico is relatively minor, and we will address that with our customers. Beyond that, predicting the next move regarding tariffs is challenging.

Greg Burns, Analyst

Okay. And then when we normalize for that $4 million that shifted between quarters, based on the order trends that you've been seeing recently, how should we think about the remainder of the year? Do you see growth accelerating or improving on a sequential basis, as we move throughout the year? How do you see the year playing out based on the pipeline and order activity that you're currently seeing?

Paul Arling, CEO

It's tough to provide a clear answer. We've received feedback from customers, but it's speculative, especially as we look towards Q2, Q3, and even Q4. This uncertainty is why we refrain from offering long-term guidance; the economic landscape and various factors can lead to significant changes in outlook. Our current guidance is focused on the next quarter. We've initiated several new projects, especially in the second half of the year, which have had a positive impact, and we expect more this year. We are optimistic about these developments, but we must monitor how the year unfolds, not just for our company but also concerning the overall economy and factors that could influence demand for home entertainment devices, televisions, and HVAC systems. That's why we're cautious about long-term forecasts. When concentrating solely on our projects, there is a lot to be hopeful about, as we are gaining market share. As I mentioned earlier, we are successfully securing second, third, and even fourth and fifth projects, while also bidding for more. This situation reminds me of past experiences in home entertainment, where we established our reputation through quality products and effective execution, which in turn led to additional business. We are observing a similar trend now. If we could experience a reduction in economic challenges or even a slight boost, it would enhance our position further. However, we are hesitant to make any definitive long-term predictions at this juncture.

Greg Burns, Analyst

Okay. Regarding the relative strength observed in the subscription broadcast market this quarter, do you think it's sustainable? Do you believe this segment of the business has reached a stable level where order patterns can become consistent, or how do you assess what you experienced this quarter in terms of its sustainability?

Paul Arling, CEO

It did. Forecasting for two to four quarters ahead is always challenging. However, the rate of decline has slowed down, especially considering how much it has decreased over the last four to five years. Our recent performance suggests that this decline is diminishing for many of our customers, and we've even seen some increases from them. It seems we might have reached a point where the negative impact of that segment on our overall business has diminished, allowing the growth from our connected home segment to be more apparent. If we see stability or only a slight decline in home entertainment, the growth in Connected Home can clearly stand out.

Operator, Operator

One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Jeff Van Sinderen from B. Riley Securities.

Jeff Van Sinderen, Analyst

Hi, everyone. Let me say congratulations on the return to growth. I wonder if we could just circle back to production geographic considerations. And if I recall, you have a facility in Vietnam that is producing predominantly HVAC or Connected Home products. And I'm just wondering if you needed to, could you produce more there, if you needed to ship production from Mexico or anything else that's in China, I guess China is not an issue, but from Mexico perhaps?

Paul Arling, CEO

Yes. We do make both home entertainment and connected home products in Vietnam already. So, there could be further shifts made for either classification of product or any of our products to a facility in Vietnam if necessary.

Jeff Van Sinderen, Analyst

Okay. Good to know. And then you mentioned enhanced monetization opportunities in some of the products that you showcased at CES. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that and the potential contribution to your business that could have?

Paul Arling, CEO

Sure. Yes. I don't want to give too much away, because some of this is brand new, and we at CES, we typically present these technologies to the OEMs for inclusion in their future product, but a couple of different things. The advanced monetization could be had; we're doing a lot on the device and in the device itself, not necessarily in the cloud even, but in the device, which provides obviously security to potentially bring more consumers. As you know in the home entertainment business, there is a battle of the OS. So, a lot of companies are building their own OS within the device and consumers are sometimes connecting other products to the device, which creates a battle of OS, right? What we're able to do is help them bring more users to their OS through some of the things we're doing, software-driven things we're doing across the platform. I guess that's the only thing I can say about it right now, which would bring more, obviously more eyeballs or more viewing hours to their interface, increasing monetization for those players. And again, we want to do it in a way that the consumer is attracted to, because doing it in a way that the consumer isn't attracted to doesn't really work, right? Over the long-term, people are going to do what they want to do. So, we are developing ways to make it more attractive for people to come to your OS and view the various things they wish to watch. Now as far as HomeSense is concerned, there are a variety of ways that our different customers, home entertainment, HVAC, other smart home applications, because essentially what it does is, and I won't get too deep into the technology here, but it can determine who is home and essentially where they might be. And of course, it's private because it can be done on device. This is why we're doing advanced development with some of our partners of platforms, of hardware platforms, chips that can allow them to do this sort of AI within the home to determine who's present. Now you might say, why do I need to know that? Well, there are a whole bunch of applications for this in the entertainment world, but even importantly on simple things like climate control. Why are you cooling parts of your house where nobody's there, or nobody is ever there? Some people on this call probably have large homes, where 30% of their home isn't occupied very often. Wouldn't their system be better optimized? Wouldn't it balance comfort with cost better if they could locate where people are and optimize the system for that? So, there are a lot of applications for this in future products in our platforms, working alongside these OEMs. I think we have a pretty good technology there. Customers were very interested in this along with other QuickSet, QuickSet 7 SDK and other applications to be built into our future products that we build for them or into their products directly. I hope that answered your question.

Jeff Van Sinderen, Analyst

Yes, that's helpful. I appreciate that. And just wanted to maybe think a little bit about growth drivers that you have baked into your guidance for this year. I know you're seeing growth in HVAC Control, Connected Home. But I guess, are those the products that you are seeing be the largest drivers of growth this year? Is it largely HVAC-derived products? Or are there other products in that that you see driving it? Is it kind of a rebound perhaps in subscription broadcasting? Are there new programs in that, that might be up or maybe you could just help us with that a bit?

Paul Arling, CEO

Yes, that's a good question. It's a combination of factors. The biggest opportunity lies in HVAC customers, which could rival our sales potential in home entertainment, particularly with companies like Daikin and Carrier, the two largest HVAC providers globally. We are collaborating with various others as well. This market is extensive, growing, and evolving, which creates opportunities for us to sell new platforms that align with their innovative products aimed at efficiency and cost management, particularly in terms of energy consumption. They are looking for solutions, and our controllers can assist in achieving that while enhancing device functionality. Just as other markets have seen significant transformations, such as mobile phones and remotes, we see a similar potential with thermostats, which are just beginning to become connected devices. Imagine a thermostat that can optimize your energy bill by adjusting temperatures based on electricity prices. While some competitors offer options, we believe our comprehensive approach stands out, coupled with proven device interoperability that attracts these customers as they aim to integrate into smart homes. Our success in winning these projects positions us well for future opportunities, and we continue to innovate in this field. We're optimistic about our prospects, as satisfied customers provide a strong foundation for future projects, which will contribute to growth beyond 2025 into 2026, 2027, and 2028.

Jeff Van Sinderen, Analyst

Okay. I know you don't provide specific figures, but I'm considering the HVAC Hash business. Do you believe that the growth in that sector will accelerate in the second half of this year and into 2026, or what are your thoughts on the growth trajectory of the business?

Paul Arling, CEO

Yes. I mean, I guess as we sit today and it's always difficult to predict two, three, four, or five years out. But I do think that based on the growth dynamics that are there today, the Connected Home business probably will be the majority of our business sometime from now, not this year, but it will be some time from now. Just because of the growth prospects there, the size of the market, the number of customers that we don't have yet, that we are beginning to win, the growth of the market itself and the home entertainment market has been difficult for the last few years and probably doesn't grow at the same pace anywhere in the next five years as the connected home market. I do see this as a key to the future. It does not mean home entertainment isn't going anywhere. People are still entertaining themselves at home. There's plenty of opportunities there. We do have wins there that will help fuel that business. It may offset any further shrinkage we might have from certain of those markets, right? We're still by far the leader there, and it is very much an important part of our business. But Connected Home is probably where the growth comes from over the next three to five years.

Operator, Operator

Thank you. One moment for our next question. We have a follow-up question from Steven Frankel from Rosenblatt Securities.

Steven Frankel, Analyst

Paul, if you are in discussion with these HVAC vendors about additional products, where do you think they are in making these smart thermostats a standard part of a new sale rather than something optional that the consumer has to decide to pay out for when they install a new system?

Paul Arling, CEO

Yes. I can't speak to the economics on their end. Obviously, we never talk about specific customers' plans. If you're asking, will they one day give them for free, I can't comment on that. That probably is being considered just as an integral part of their system, but that wouldn't be up to us to do. We will sell them the product, they will market it in a way they deem appropriate. But I will say this, that in many discussions in that market, their desire is to become more integral to the smart home, which would mean that they want to attach their brand and/or their product to their products. They realize they have to make their product better and very attractive to the consumer because it's just like any market, the consumer will want it if it's as good or better than what they have now or what is available to them through other vendors. They are very cognizant of that and are working towards that. This is where, again, the opportunity for us is there, making these products do things that are useful to the consumer that make them smarter. And by smarter, I don't just mean connected to an IP device. I mean, they do things that make your life easier that are other people aren't doing in their product. We mentioned a few of those features here, and sometimes not huge features, but they're additional features, right, that make the product a little better. And they're all interested in this. I think I can faithfully say everyone that's in this market is on that trail towards a product that not only will control their HVAC system better but may do other things as well. It may be able to even predict when your device is failing so that the consumer or the installer can be contacted to contact the consumer to say, 'Hey, maybe I should come out and look at your system.' You don't want to have your HVAC system fail in the middle of summer, especially in places like Phoenix.

Steven Frankel, Analyst

Great. And then, could you review for us of the Top 10 HVAC vendors in the world, how many have you won and how many others are you having material discussions with?

Paul Arling, CEO

I think when you say material discussions, I don't know the definition of that. We're probably talking to all of them. In fact, I'm quite sure we are. I think we've won the majority of them or at least a project, because the way these relationships and it's probably true in any market, it was in home entertainment, it is in HVAC and it probably is in any market. When you want to break into an account that's large, you usually don't go in and pitch, I want all your business today, because most of these companies, particularly if they're of size, are not going to give a new vendor all of their business. So, you typically have to go through a project, where they see how you work, they see how you integrate with their people, their engineers. It's a test, and it's a project that you go through. We've been through this in other markets. Then once you prove yourself, you're allowed new projects. You can get to the point where they'll award you multiple projects at once because they're so happy with what you've done on the first or second project. They often do reviews of them after they're done. After the product has been introduced, they'll do a review of the vendor, how did we work together, how can we work better together, and then they may award you additional projects. That's the stage we're at with a few of these major players. We've been awarded great projects, and we will execute on those. Then like we did in home entertainment, we will decide we want to do as much with them as possible, and have them make that choice.

Operator, Operator

Thank you. At this time, I would now like to turn the conference back over to Paul Arling for closing remarks.

Paul Arling, CEO

Okay. Thank you for your continued support of Universal Electronics and joining us on the call today. We will present at the Sidoti Small Cap Virtual Conference on March 19th, 20th. We look forward to seeing some or all of you there. Have a great day. Thank you.

Operator, Operator

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.