Earnings Call
Encore Capital Group Inc (ECPG)
Earnings Call Transcript - ECPG Q3 2020
Operator, Operator
Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Encore Capital Group's Q3 2020 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question-and-answer session and instructions will follow at that time. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Bruce Thomas from Encore Capital. Please go ahead.
Bruce Thomas, Host
Thank you, operator. Good afternoon and welcome to Encore Capital Group's third quarter 2020 earnings call. Joining me on the call today are Ashish Masih, our President and Chief Executive Officer; Jonathan Clark, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer; Ryan Bell, President of Midland Credit Management; and Craig Buick, CEO of Cabot Credit Management. Ashish and Jon will make prepared remarks today, and then we'll be happy to take your questions. Unless otherwise noted, comparisons made on this conference call will be between the third quarter of 2020 and the third quarter of 2019. In addition, today's discussion will include forward-looking statements subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results could differ materially from these forward-looking statements. Please refer to our SEC filings for a detailed discussion of potential risks and uncertainties. During this call, we will use rounding and abbreviations for the sake of brevity. We will also be discussing non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures are included in our earnings presentation, which was filed on Form 8-K earlier today. As a reminder, this conference call will also be made available for replay on the investors section of our website, where we will also post our prepared remarks following the conclusion of this call. With that, let me turn the call over to Ashish Masih, our President and Chief Executive Officer.
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
Thanks, Bruce, and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining our earnings call. With the COVID-19 pandemic's persistence, we hope that each of you and your families remain safe and healthy while adapting to the realities of your current circumstances. At Encore, through a combination of working from home and the creation of safe workplaces, we continue to prioritize the welfare of our employees. And we remain fully operational in all the markets we serve. Working through the changing dynamics of the pandemic around the world, our team continues to perform at or above the high level of productivity we exhibited before the pandemic. The consumer dynamics we discussed a quarter ago continued into the third quarter. Our consumers are reaching out to us for assistance with their financial recovery. We deal with consumers in financial hardship every day and have been able to extend relief when appropriate, while we have increasing numbers of consumers resolve their debts. As expected, this past Friday, the CFPB released new rules for our industry in the U.S. These rules provide much-needed clarity and create uniformity in the fair treatment of consumers and debt collection. They also provide opportunities for us to communicate with consumers through more modern means, consistent with the way consumers prefer to interact with us. The new rules are largely consistent with those proposed 18 months ago, and as a result, we are well prepared to fully implement them with no significant incremental operational changes. To these new rules, we remain very much aligned with the CFPB's goal of making consumer financial markets work for consumers, responsible providers, and the economy as a whole. The third quarter was a period of great achievement for Encore. The steady improvement of our balance sheet has been a strategic priority of ours for some time. As part of this effort, we had a goal of combining the strength of the U.S. and European balance sheets into one unified global funding structure. We accomplished this goal in September through a series of actions that now maximizes our financial flexibility. More specifically, the benefits include enhanced access to capital markets, improved ability to deploy capital in the market for the best returns, and a line of sight to reducing our funding costs. Jon will recap the highlights of our new funding structure in a few moments. It was also an outstanding quarter operationally for Encore, in which we delivered strong results. Global collections for the third quarter reached a record $540 million and came in better than expected for both MCM and Cabot. Revenues of $404 million were up 30% compared to the third quarter a year ago. Our ERC was a record $8.5 billion and was up 15% compared to Q3 last year. As a result of our strong collections performance, we delivered through GAAP net income of $1.72 per share, which was more than 40% higher than Q3 last year. Non-GAAP adjusted income was $74 million, or $2.31 per share. Additionally, a clear indication of our performance can be found in the higher level of returns in our business. Our return-on-equity reached 21.3% on a trailing 12-month basis in Q3, as we continue to operate efficiently and deploy capital at solid returns. The result demonstrates our ability to deliver strong returns under current market conditions, as well as over time. We believe, it is difficult to find such attractive returns at other companies in our industry. Our consistent growth in cash generation demonstrates a steady improvement in the business over the past several years. In fact, in the third quarter, we again set a new record for adjusted EBITDA plus collections applied to principal, which is the industry benchmark for cash generation. We continue to operate efficiently and purchase portfolios at attractive multiples. Even after subtracting cash taxes, cash interest, and CapEx, we continue to generate substantial cash each quarter. Turning now to our U.S. business. MCM collections in Q3 were a record $391 million, up 18% compared to the third quarter of last year. Our MCM performance continues to benefit from our efforts to direct a larger proportion of our collections towards the call center and digital channels. We continue to see strong demand from our consumer base to engage with us through our digital platform. As a result, Q3 collections in the call center and digital channel were up 32% compared to the same quarter last year. MCM deployments in the third quarter were $141 million, which continues to improve when compared to the year-ago period, reflecting a strong focus on expense management, our operating efficiency, and the resulting operating leverage we have created in our business. Due to COVID-related impacts and constraints, MCM's expenses in the third quarter were somewhat lower than we would have incurred otherwise. These constraints are expected to diminish going forward. And, as I mentioned a moment ago, we believe the new rules released by the CFPB last week provide clarity and create uniformity in how consumers should be treated across the industry. Additionally, it requires no significant incremental operational changes to achieve compliance with the new rules, as they are largely consistent with the CFPB's proposed rules that were issued 18 months ago, giving us time to prepare. Turning to Cabot. In the UK and continental Europe, our collections in the third quarter showed continued signs of recovery and were down only 6% compared to Q3 a year ago. In Europe, government measures resulting from the COVID pandemic continue to impact the litigation-related collection practices. At the same time, collections in our call center and digital channel in Q3 were broadly in line with last year. We continue to see no material change in demand for and breakage rates. Capital management throughout the pandemic has enabled continued solid profitability. The subdued purchasing environments in the UK and continental Europe continued into Q3, and we expect this lower level of supply to persist until the end of 2020. However, we are seeing a stronger pipeline of servicing opportunities forming in the UK. We anticipate an increase in purchasing opportunities as charge-offs are expected to rise meaningfully after government assistance programs subside. Looking forward, our new global funding structure removes the prior constraints related to Cabot's standalone leverage. This provides us enhanced stability to deploy capital at attractive returns. I'd now like to hand the call over to John for a more detailed look at our third quarter financial results.
Jonathan Clark, CFO
Thank you, Ashish. As a reminder, we will sometimes refer to our U.S. business by its brand name, Midland Credit Management, or more simply MCM. We may also refer to our European business as Cabot. Global deployments were $170 million in the third quarter compared to $260 million in the third quarter of 2019. MCM deployed $141 million in the U.S. during Q3, down from $173 million in the same period a year ago, due to better pricing, coupled with somewhat lower supply. European deployments totaled $29 million during the third quarter compared to $85 million in the same quarter year ago. The decrease in Q3 was primarily due to limited supply of portfolios coming to market as a result of the COVID pandemic. Global collections reached a record $540 million in the third quarter, up 8% compared to the same quarter a year ago. MCM collections grew 18% in Q3 to a record $391 million. Within that total, MCM's call center and digital collections grew 32% compared to Q3 of last year. Cabot's collections from our debt purchasing business in Europe in the third quarter were $141 million, down 6% compared to Q3 last year. Overall, global collections for the first three quarters of 2020 were at 100% of our ERC as of December 31, 2019. Global revenues in the third quarter were up 13% to $404 million, compared to $356 million in Q3 a year ago. In the U.S., revenues were $256 million in the third quarter, while in Europe, Q3 revenues were $142 million. Higher than expected collections generated an incremental $30 million of revenue in the third quarter. This is reflected in our income statement under changes and expected current and future recoveries. We believe the majority of our overperformance in the third quarter reflected over-collections against the forecast reductions made at the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. Our global ERC was $8.5 billion at the end of September, up 15% when compared to the end of Q3 last year. In the third quarter, we reported GAAP earnings of $1.72 per share, compared to $1.23 per share in Q3 of last year. After making non-cash and non-operating adjustments that accounted for the tax effects of these adjustments, our non-GAAP economic EPS was $2.31 per share in the third quarter. This compares to $1.64 per share of economic EPS in Q3 of last year. There are two items that I would like to highlight. First, our GAAP EPS for Q3 this year is net of the impact of a $15 million payment we made to the CFPB to settle a complaint they filed in September, which translates to $0.47 per share. Second, both our GAAP and economic EPS in Q3 are net of a $0.59 per share impact from expenses associated with establishing our new global funding structure, which totaled $19 million after tax. As Ashish mentioned in his opening remarks, we successfully implemented our new global funding structure in September, which effectively combined the balance sheets of MCM and Cabot businesses and allows us to fully leverage their combined scale. Among the many benefits of this new structure, we have maximized our future flexibility, allowing us to better leverage our global borrowing base and enhance our access to capital markets. We have extended our debt maturities, removed the prior leverage constraints that were specific to Cabot, and this provides us with enhanced stability to allocate capital to the markets for the best returns. As a result of our new funding structure and the strengthening of our balance sheet over the past two plus years, we have positioned ourselves strongly to capitalize on the attractive opportunities that lie ahead. Since the beginning of 2018, we've reduced our debt-to-equity ratio from 5.9 times to 2.9 times. We've also reduced our ratio of net debt-to-adjusted EBIT plus collections applied to principal, a measure commonly used in our industry. We have reduced this ratio from 3.2 times to 2.4 times, resulting in a level that is among the lowest in our peer group. Our deleveraging has been driven by strong operating performance and focused capital deployment, which have in turn driven higher levels of efficiency and cash flow. Available capacity under our new global RCF was $465 million at the end of the third quarter. Additionally, we concluded Q3 with $150 million of non-client cash on the balance sheet. We also paid off $89 million of convertible notes that matured in July, which reduced the size of our convertible complex by 13%. If you follow us closely, you will recall that we are in the midst of a conservative effort to reduce the level of convertible debt in our capital stack. With that, I'd like to turn it back over to Ashish.
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
Thank you, Jon. As I mentioned in the past, we believe our three strategic priorities continue to be instrumental in building shareholder value and driving strong results. The three priorities include focusing on the U.S. and UK, the two largest and most valuable markets; innovating to maintain and enhance our competitive edge; and continuing to strengthen our balance sheet while delivering strong results. With a steady emphasis on these priorities, we continue to deliver solid operating performance each quarter and remain well positioned for the attractive opportunities expected in our markets. In summary, Q3 was an outstanding quarter for Encore, in which we achieved record collections, ERC, and cash generation. Our results in the third quarter are a continuation of significant growth in GAAP earnings over the past five years. A strong return on equity reflects Encore's solid performance over time. We are pleased to see the finalization of the rules for our industry in the U.S. The new rules issued by the CFPB will provide clarity and create uniformity in how consumers are treated across the industry. Finally, in addition to our new global funding structure, the quality of our balance sheet and our liquidity have us well positioned to capitalize on the significant increase in charge-offs expected in 2021 and beyond. Now we'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have. Operator, please open up the lines for questions.
Operator, Operator
And your first question is from Mark Hughes from Truist. Your line is open.
Mark Hughes, Analyst
Jonathan, does the economic EPS include the $15 million in CFPB settlement?
Jonathan Clark, CFO
No, that only impacted GAAP. The one that impacted both was the charges related to the new global funding structure.
Mark Hughes, Analyst
So the economic EPS excludes both the funding structure and the CFPB charge, is that correct?
Jonathan Clark, CFO
Yes. No, no, sorry. What I was trying to say is that the global funding structure, the $0.59 that I referred to before, that was netted out of both. So both GAAP and economic are lower by that amount for the global finance structure. Economic EPS is not lowered by the settlement with the CFPB.
Mark Hughes, Analyst
Okay. So if one were to do an operating EPS excluding the CFPB settlement, one would have to back the $0.47. Is that correct?
Jonathan Clark, CFO
Well, yes, from our perspective, we incur these kinds of financing costs in refinancing bonds and from time to time with our bank facilities. And this one just happens to be bigger, of course, but we have absorbed similar costs in the past, just so you're aware.
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
And Mark, this is Ashish. If I could jump in on some of the comments you made regarding operating earnings. There were three things out of the norm in Q3. Jon mentioned two of them. The $0.59 reduced it because of the global funding structure. The other two elements worth noting are, as you know, we are performing really well on collections. We continue to do well. However, the forecast we are performing and comparing against was made in Q1 during the very early stages of the COVID pandemic, and we continue to benefit from that. This quarter, you could essentially assume about $30 million in revenues shifted from Q1 to Q3, so that's $0.35 benefit we had in Q3. The other factor is that expenses continue to run lower, but in particular MCM collections expenses relating to legal and other activities have been running lower as well, and that's about $10 million a quarter approximately. Going forward, Q4 onwards, I expect to see that normalize. So those are the three out-of-norm elements in our earnings, economic earnings in Q3.
Mark Hughes, Analyst
What is the trajectory on the legal spending? It'll normalize, but how long is it going to take to get back to that extra $10 million pace?
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
I think you'll start getting there pretty quickly. Some of it is legal, some of it is other collections expenses. So we should start seeing in Q4 and then it will build up early in the year and going forward on a quarterly basis.
Mark Hughes, Analyst
On the U.S. supply, the card companies have certainly made large provisions for expected losses that credit card charge-offs continue to be low. How do you see that playing out over the next 12 months?
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
So we are watching very closely, and we are also talking to our bank and issuer partners in the U.S. You have, I'm sure, followed all the bank earnings reports. It has been an unusual time for the lending industry—credit card banks continue to see delinquencies lower than normal and charge-offs remain lower than normal, despite an economic hardship in the macro environment accompanied by higher unemployment rates. However, it is an odd situation. Banks continue to sell, rather than wanting to sell at normal rates. We see volumes at the lower end of the contractual amounts and their flows. I think this will continue through the end of this year and most likely into the new year. But this has been an interesting and strange economic environment in so many ways. Things have changed, but that's what we're hearing from the banks right now, and we're preparing for that.
Operator, Operator
And your next question is from David Scharf of JMP Securities. Your line is open.
David Scharf, Analyst
I'm wondering a couple of things regarding the CFPB. We hear you loud and clear about the minimal operational changes. I'm just curious, do you have a gut feeling? Or are you hearing any chatter from your bank partners that the formalization of the new rules might negatively impact some of their outsourcing partners? Ultimately, you compete with third-party contingency firms as well. Do you think these new rules are going to improve your competitive standing at all, or should we just view this as a formalization of things you've been doing?
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
So David, a couple of things in your questions. First, no significant incremental operational changes means there are positive elements on digital technology, text messaging, emails, and so forth. There are areas we will have to adapt, for example. But overall, it should be a net benefit. We have seen the draft rules for 18 months, giving us ample time to think about it and adapt our plan for it. The rules won’t be in effect for another year, so we'll have time to implement changes. Regarding chatter from the banks, since the recent release, we have not heard anything directly from them. However, I believe your articulated viewpoint is correct: some of the agencies and smaller-scale players may have to invest significantly more in compliance with the rules. If you want to do digital, it incurs a lot of fixed costs and requires years of investment. I would think this benefits companies like Encore who are consumer-focused and have been investing in these technologies from the outset. Consumers prefer to engage digitally, and I would expect that companies with both technology and skill, like Encore, should benefit from this long-term.
David Scharf, Analyst
On the digital front, can you clarify what you mean when you refer to digital in the context of call center collections? Are you referring to inbound payments through a digital payment portal, or does digital also encompass outbound outreach such as texting?
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
Yes, it refers to all of them, because it is a multi-channel, omni-channel approach. Sometimes a call may lead a consumer to pay online or via the app, or an email might prompt them to talk to us. It's difficult to separate them as we have combined digital and call center into one channel, which is what we refer to. Regarding earlier questions on the CFPB, call caps of seven calls per account in a week will also be a factor, as firms that are very outbound focused will have to adapt and may see reductions in collections. This should aid the trend we've been driving for a while, especially as our inbound volumes, both from call center and digital, continue to grow significantly.
David Scharf, Analyst
Just one final question, I guess for Jonathan. I don't know if it's just a coincidence, but obviously the CECL-related allowance. The outperformance in Q2 plus Q3 is almost dollar for dollar with the COVID negative mark you took in Q1. Should we view Q3 as sort of cleaning up the initial underperformance from Q1, or can we see it as more of a fresh start moving forward?
Jonathan Clark, CFO
Yes, it's a great question, David. You hate to sound too cute and try to get too cute with our numbers because, as you know, these are complicated calculations with various discount rates. Obviously, cash over time is not discounted at all. However, you're correct in saying that on a go-forward basis, we've caught up on a significant percentage of what we had delayed in the past. Remember, there is a difference in recoveries in the U.S. versus the UK. They are moving at different speeds, given what's happening there. But yes, generically, you're correct.
Operator, Operator
Next question is from Mike Grondahl of Northland Securities. Your line is open.
Mike Grondahl, Analyst
Digital collections at this point, it looks like 63% are coming from a call center and digital in the U.S., growing 32% year-over-year. Can you provide more granularity about what's working, and what you think is driving those results? The costs associated with them seem to be doing well for you. Could you provide additional context?
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
Absolutely, Mike. That's a good observation. We have had a steady increase in the call center and digital collections since around 2015 due to our enhancement efforts in our call model and account managers. A focus on consumer-oriented call practices and analytics to help segment accounts into legal versus call center has led to a steady increase up until the end of 2019. What we found is that the pandemic environment caused consumers to behave differently; banks are finding that consumers are returning to their debts or improving their savings rates. Consumers are more actively reaching out and utilizing our digital services. How sustainable this will be is uncertain; however, consumers seem to be getting more comfortable with digital engagements, which may slow the rate of growth but should keep us at a steady increase. When we start using outbound methods—mail, text messaging, and voicemails that consumers prefer—it will further improve engagement. This has had a positive impact on our costs to collect and the overall impact on the bottom line.
Mike Grondahl, Analyst
Secondly, if the U.S. receives a second stimulus at some point, how do you think about that in terms of your business? Is there a trade-off between better collections but a potentially softer supply? How should we think about the implications of a second stimulus?
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
Let me take a stab at this. We do not specifically target stimulus money. Our core business involves dealing with consumers in financial hardship ongoing. For banks, while stimulus might play a role, we always aim to assist consumers through delays in payments, hardship plans, and more. We're not relying on stimulus money; the increasing savings rate seen across the country may correlate with how consumers handle their debts. Banks are finding that their consumers are managing their debts at a higher rate, resulting in lower delinquencies and charge-offs. The exact mechanisms—whether stimulus or reduced expenses—will depend on how the economy reopens. The trends suggest that major inflows should lead to rising charge-offs; banks have reported that forbearance programs are dwindling, nearing single digits, which has affected delinquency rates.
Ryan Bell, President of Midland Credit Management
I think you covered it well, Ashish. The overall health of the consumer directly impacts their ability to pay. As we track savings rates, we see they correlate well with consumer repayment patterns.
Operator, Operator
Next question is from Dominick Gabriele of Oppenheimer. Your line is open.
Dominick Gabriele, Analyst
If we review the $540 million of collections, and contrast it to the yield on those collections, the revenue recognition rate is somewhat flat compared to last year, despite seeing improvements in the first and second quarters. Were there numerous balances collected that perhaps didn’t have the time to profit adequately, or came on at lower profitability? Can you explain the dynamics you are seeing?
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
The revenue recognition under the CECL has two impacts—the first line and second line effects can cause variance. The slight drop in revenue recognition as a percent of collections from 63.3% to 63.5% illustrates this. I can't think of anything unique that is happening beyond the CECL approach causing noise.
Jonathan Clark, CFO
As can be seen from our multiples, we're booking better multiples. The CECL did change our ERC, making it comparable and inducing some growth. Q-on-Q comparisons indicate that we maintain or possibly improve our revenue recognition rate. The noise created by CECL complicates things somewhat.
Dominick Gabriele, Analyst
If you back out the $7 million modeling question in operating expenses, I assume the rest is captured in interest expense. Is that why interest expenses peaked around $16 million?
Jonathan Clark, CFO
Yes, that's correct. The expenses are tied to the implementation of the global funding structure.
Dominick Gabriele, Analyst
So based on that, should we assume that core interest costs should trend back to the low $50 million range?
Jonathan Clark, CFO
Generally, yes. I just want to caution you a bit; if we refinance some high coupon debt with lower coupon debt, you could see elevated interest expense, but generally, we expect to return to that low $50 million range.
Dominick Gabriele, Analyst
On legal collections, I appreciate the insights there. I just want to clarify that there was around $16 million, and I believe the common was around $10 million lower than what we would have otherwise seen. There was some push and pull from the second quarter into the third quarter. Are you suggesting that legal collections will comprise a larger portion of collections going forward?
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
You're largely correct. We might see expenses show up not only in legal collections but also in other operating expenses like mailing costs. The $10 million expense benefit we saw in Q3 is likely to diminish and not persist going forward.
Operator, Operator
Next question is from Robert Dodd of Raymond James. Your line is open.
Robert Dodd, Analyst
I have a question about Cabot or really the UK. As you mentioned in your prepared remarks, COVID has impacted litigation in Europe. Given the UK’s recent lockdown, how does that affect your operations and expenses? Additionally, with Brexit approaching, can you provide insights into your plans regarding potential adjustments?
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
I’ll keep it brief and let Craig respond. Primarily, you are right that the UK is affected but also other countries in Europe where we are active, especially Spain, where court processes aren’t functioning at full capacity. This impacts operations elsewhere as well. Craig, would you like to add any further context?
Craig Buick, CEO of Cabot Credit Management
Thank you, Ashish, and hello Robert. The recent UK lockdown will not impact our operational capabilities currently. We invested in technology and processes, allowing us to respond quickly last time. We have been able to maintain our operations efficiently. The courts and public services remain operational, unlike the first lockdown. Thus, we can continue to meet client and customer needs. We did pull back on litigation during the first lockdown, but we have reinitiated those activities in a controlled manner. Regarding Brexit, we have distinct operating entities within each European jurisdiction, so anything around a no-trade deal should not materially impact us. We've focused on GDPR and data sharing implications, monitoring the facts closely. As of now, our operations are stable.
Operator, Operator
We have a question from Mark Hughes from SunTrust. Your line is open.
Mark Hughes, Analyst
Jon, you touched on this, but can you elaborate on the line of sight to reduce funding costs? Any specifics that you see in the roadmap?
Jonathan Clark, CFO
Absolutely. If you look at our debt stack, you’ll see some relatively higher-cost debt. As we progress, I foresee opportunities to refinance these pieces of debt, for example, a bond worth a billion dollars, where saving a couple hundred basis points would amount to significant annual cost reductions. As we move forward, I expect better execution as we continue to develop our financing structure.
Mark Hughes, Analyst
Is there a call protection that makes refinancing viable? When does it become more palatable?
Jonathan Clark, CFO
They are both callable today but at steep premiums. However, we would consider paying that premium if compelling economics are there. Ultimately, it all hinges on the numbers.
Operator, Operator
And your last question is from Dominick Gabriele of Oppenheimer. Your line is open.
Dominick Gabriele, Analyst
Do you think the quarter-over-quarter change in U.S. purchases improved? I recall you stating that sellers were previously reluctant. Are they becoming more open to selling now? Also, have you observed any slowdown in inbound activity as you moved through Q2 and Q3, potentially due to the absence of government stimulus?
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
I want to clarify: all U.S. banks that had been selling before the pandemic have continued to do so. They might have paused some sales but are heavily engaged in forward flows. What’s changing is that delinquency volumes and charge-offs are decreasing. In the UK and Europe, there’s been more of a pause, but we continue to see some activity there. The supply likely will remain subdued up until late 2021 as banks manage their portfolio demands. Regarding inbound calls, I’ll let Ryan provide insights.
Ryan Bell, President of Midland Credit Management
There are no observable impacts from the inbound activity. Across Q2 and Q3, we did not see any major changes in our key metrics indicating any shifts in consumer behavior.
Operator, Operator
And there are no further questions at this time. I will turn the call back over to Mr. Masih for his closing remarks.
Ashish Masih, President and CEO
Thank you. That concludes the call for today. Thanks for taking the time to join us, and we look forward to providing our fourth quarter 2020 results in February. Thank you.
Operator, Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.