Conference Transcript - AFRM 2026-09-08

Zane Keller, Head of Investor Relations

All right, we're going to kick this off. We are very excited here to have Max Levchin yet again from Affirm. Max, thanks for joining us. Really looking forward to the conversation again. Thank you for having me. All right, so at the Investor Forum in May, you framed a business around $100 billion in annual GMV. You laid out a 25% growth algorithm with 10 points each coming from your point-of-sale product, your direct-to-consumer franchise, as well as one to five points from some of the more fledgling products, international expansion, the bank distribution. When you look across those buckets, where do you see the biggest go-get, and what do you think needs to happen to get there?

Max Levchin, CEO

It's actually kind of designed to be not dependent on any one thing. So we certainly have lots of road to go in the U.S. alone. In a last year holder letter, we pointed out that we're still fairly thin in terms of penetration into top 500 e-commerce retailers. Offline is still very nascent. So just growth of that type alone could take us to our goals, but we're certainly plenty ambitious. So none of these, at least the ones you quoted, feel to me like, oh, man, I better put the A-team on that. We don't have a B-team, fortunately. We're a well-run machine, so B-teamers don't survive. But some of the more interesting stuff that is in the other product bucket is what I consider to be the go-gents because they're exciting opportunities to expand the product offerings and just to widen the network. Makes sense.

Zane Keller, Head of Investor Relations

All right, so you don't have a B team. I would argue you kind of have an A team. You've been talking more recently about your own personal SWAT team and some of the exciting things you're getting to do with it. You made some leadership changes more recently that I think the goal was to kind of give you more bandwidth to focus on, you know, this kind of zero-to-one project initiative that you have. So can you talk a little bit about what has enabled that and how your day-to-day role in the organization could change?

Max Levchin, CEO

So those who are, if all of you are paying attention to the comings and goings of my executive team, I apologize, but just on the odd chance, not everybody's parsing through my team announcements. There's been no team changes. There's only been responsibility changes. So I'm fortunate in a sense that the totality of my directs and their directs, with very few exceptions, have been at Affirm for five-plus years. My direct reports, I think, average last I looked were like seven or eight years. So I've had a very successful partnership with a handful of people I consider my betters in certainly the ability to execute and many other things. And the two players that have, two executives that have been kind of my strongest supporters and folks I lean onto for everything, both sort of the emergencies and the long terms, are Michael, our now president and just recently chief operating officer. And Libor, who is almost a co-founder, has been at our firm almost as long as I have, who started our CTO and is also a president of ours. And so very recently, I basically realized that the company is already effectively managed by these two guys and consolidated all responsibilities under the two of them, primarily from the recognition that they are, in fact, better operators than I could ever hope to be. I'm also not trying to improve as an operator. What I am trying to do is figure out how to grow a firm not just to $100 billion of GMV, but to $200 trillion, you know, wherever the opportunities take us. And so this consolidation of reporting, and zero people were asked to leave a firm, and I'm very pleased to hear that even as I sort of moved the deck chairs a little bit, no one felt slighted and decided to leave the company. So the executive team is exactly as it was in the beginning of this change. But what I've done is I've freed up a significant amount of my own time to work with a team we know internally as ZT1, zero to one. And that team reports directly to me as a handful of engineers, a handful of product managers, an analyst, and sort of a full-time operator. So it functions essentially as a lab, sort of a startup within a startup, if you will, where we work entirely on what we call the next set of S-curves. So the card, now a large, maybe the most interesting thing we've come up with in the last few years, came out of ZT1. The next set of to the moon and beyond, or to infinity and beyond, curves that we hope to launch will come out of this team. Just to give you a tangible sense for what that looks like, my involvement with ZT1 until these org changes was on the order of 45 to 60 minutes per week, which was kind of the breath of fresh air that I wanted and was looking forward to every week because that was the moment where I get to nerd out and maybe even write some code sometimes or certainly read and write some specs which is now flipped into multiple times a week for a handful of hours. Tomorrow, as it happens, is my ZT1 in person which will start as early as I get off the bike and will end with probably very late at night. So I'll spend the entire day working with a handful of people just discussing, prototyping, looking at data very deeply, et cetera. And so if it sounds like I'm excited about it, I really am because I think that's the best insurance policy I can take out on making sure the card is not the last 100% year-over-year compounding project we have. I hope to launch. The goal is to launch one of those every year. That's not the hard goal, but that's what will ensure we get to the trillion dollars of GMV, hopefully, a handful of years from now.

Zane Keller, Head of Investor Relations

So, I guess, with the amount of extra time you're spending now with that team, is that once a year time frame significantly faster than what you've been able to do historically? Like, other than the card, are there other examples of things that have seen the light of day out of that project?

Max Levchin, CEO

Yes, there are. I will avoid calling them out simply because I don't want to set the expectations that each one is going to be as successful as the card. But I was bragging to someone else. I'll give you a non-answer answer, but I'm excited about this one today, so this is what you get. So in the last letter, I pointed out that the rough spend, total spend of a consumer that has the Affirm card in their wallet is about twice the spend of an average of from consumers. So it's roughly goes from $2,000 to $4,000, a few dollars difference. Within ZT1, we have built a product, and this product has been around for a little while, so this is something you can actually kind of piece together by just looking at the various things we've released. Within that product, the consumer's spend is now $8,000, which is slightly north of the target we set for the cardholder at peak. So this particular statistics print or dashboard glance as recently as the last 48 hours or so, I am obsessing over exactly what else can I know about this consumer. So who are these people? What have we done that they are so committed to a firm that they're basically spending on the order of 80% of their disposable income using our instrument? It's not a huge group just yet, but I'm going to spend a lot of time tomorrow figuring out how to make it as big as possible.

Zane Keller, Head of Investor Relations

One of the things it sounds like that has enabled you to spend so much more time with this group has been the ability to get so much more work done using AI tools, the ability for you to start writing more code on the main products than you have maybe in the past decade. You've talked a lot about the benefits to the organization and the shareholder letters the last couple of quarters and talking about the accelerated code pushes, just more development in general being done by AI. I know the business runs pretty lean already, but when you think about changes to the organization directly as a function of some of these AI toolings, what are the most important call-outs?

Max Levchin, CEO

Our philosophy has not changed, so we're still very focused on do more with the same number of people versus any sort of a where can we cut fat or reduce headcount. That's not why we got into the AI game and not where we're headed. It's exciting to watch. We almost, almost, Zane did not get his way. He's here somewhere. I promise you I will eventually print the curve that he wanted to show, which shows a very steady reduction in cost per feature shipped. You know, I won't say about a year worth of data maybe will show, but it's sort of an unbelievable chart to show, like, here's how many dollars we spend making a feature of a firm, career a firm, anything, and it just marches down and down and down. In the world where you can continue lowering the cost and increase speed, you don't want to reduce the number of people who can drive this kind of value. And so we don't expect to need or want to change the contour of the team, but we're able to drive productivity effectively at the same headcount, which is kind of amazing.

Zane Keller, Head of Investor Relations

I'll stick with the theme of AI for another one. you've announced a number of integrations and partnerships around agentic commerce, and there have been a lot of ebbs and flows around the intensity of focus around agentic over the last year, initially pushing really hard, and then some of the frontier labs maybe reprioritizing earlier this year. There's a range of viewpoints from large merchants about how all this is going to work, who's going to own the customer relationship, who's going to be evaluating identity and consumer intent in agentic transactions. What do you hear from your partners on Agentic? And then how do you think a firm is positioned in some of the different versions of reality that could take place?

Max Levchin, CEO

I think I'm on the record, including this conference, that commerce is not a monolithic thing. There are definitely things that fit very well into agent, do this for me, don't come back until you're done, all the way to complex and almost like a mating dance between me and the next bike I'm going to buy. Like, I know which one I want, but it's really expensive and it's going to take a little while before I convince myself that that's what I need to go spend a lot of money on. And shopping is a form of entertainment. It's a form of learning. There's a lot of components to it, and that will not change in a way that excludes the human. We derive a lot of pleasure from finding the things that we ultimately decide we have to own. A lot of the utilitarian stuff is already happening, and it'll happen even more. You know, robot, find me more. Milk is a thing that I can't outsource too soon. Robot, buy me the best bike of 2026. Not at all. I'm going to read every list. I'm going to get as much as I possibly can out of that. And so I think that has always been my assumption. I think for a little while we lived in this strange world where some people decided to convince themselves that everyone else was wrong, and in fact there's no value in shopping, there's only value in buying or using, and it just isn't true. Like any student of basic psychology will readily tell you, like, that's not how the world works. The reason advertising is important is because it gives you inspiration. It's not there to hammer you over the head with, like, you must buy this thing. It's there to make you feel or to tell you what it will feel like to own the thing that is in front of you. And different products are advertised differently. Toilet paper is not advertised the same way fancy bikes are advertised. But that's sort of nature of the beast. And advertising is the cornerstone of shopping and commerce, including agenting. And you can readily see that the industry is pivoting towards that quickly. the headlines have recently changed from OpenAI engineers will write the robots that will buy whatever it is you want, to OpenAI's advertising business is skyrocketing. And it is, in fact, because they realize that the other, or one of the other viable alternatives in the world of LLM frontier development is none other than Google, and by the way, it's the advertising business that pays for the GPUs, or in their case, TPUs and so on. So I think, generally speaking, we're headed in the direction that, not to use my own horn too much, but we've been predicting for quite some time that a firm will get there. I think advertising is going to be very important. There's a bunch of really good work on standards that are being done to make sure that different LLMs, different chatbots come to kind of the same approach, take the same approach to just information exchange, authentication, anti-fraud, discovery, and so all of that is heading in the right direction, but I guess it'll take a while And there's nothing wrong with that. I think we're – I'm generally very optimistic about agendic shopping, but I do think it's going to be a journey versus an overnight switch.

Zane Keller, Head of Investor Relations

Makes sense. All right, pivoting to the card. Card has continued to compound, growing over 100%, moved from single digits to, you know, almost 20% of GMB. You've also been clear that I don't think you've ever really marketed it outside of the existing base. And, you know, with a loyalty program on the way, an app redesign rolling out, could we see more forceful marketing of the card in the roadmap? And maybe if not, what are the constraints that have kept you from leaning in harder to date on a more targeted advertising drive?

Max Levchin, CEO

Never say never, but we're pretty far from saturation of the card within our existing base. And so it's very hard to justify a spend of any size other than – so we constantly test market by the way. Every time I say we never market anything, in spirit, it's 100% true. Dollars and cents, it's like 99.5% true. We run – we're not so proud of – we know our way and no other way is interesting. We constantly test. We try to find out the answer to the question. All right, so if we wanted to go market a thing, what would be the cost of acquisition? We are extremely fortunate to be promoted by our merchant partners at their point of sale, effectively resulting in something that resembles zero CAC. That's a great business if you can have it, but it doesn't obviously need to know what that CAC would be if you chose to advertise. And so we know what those numbers are. They're not nearly compelling enough for us to go spend any meaningful money. We'll continue testing, and at the point where these things become, these things being a possible CAC, become somewhat interesting, we'll do more testing. But for now, we've underwritten 70-plus million Americans. We've transacted with 50 million-ish. The active numbers last trailing 12 were 26, 27 million, if I remember correctly. So that's a lot of consumers to give a card to that have a very real relationship with it. By the way, when we count actives, unlike some of our esteemed competition, we're only counting people who have initiated a transaction in that period versus have been coming to our app to pay us back. So the actual addressable base at any given point is very, very large, and the active card base, as big as it is, it's not even 10 million. It's a long way before we start saying, oh, my God, where will the next card consumer come from? So never say never, I think the more aggressive posture in marketing the card will look like us saying you've transacted with us once before, you really ought to learn about the card more than the current, which is very polite, sort of like we know you're busy, your time is valuable, you're paying your if you would like, there's a door, you can check it out the card is behind that door, like we could obviously be a lot more in your face and aggressive and we tend to be very careful I was complaining to our team yesterday about not getting enough emails from Affirm on Labor Day. And they said, like, you know, just remember we need to practice where you preach. Reach, not frequency. So we're not trying to saturate the airwaves with must get a card. But long before we start trying to talk about the card outside of the Affirm walls, we need to saturate the wall that we have. And that's a very, very large base.

Zane Keller, Head of Investor Relations

One of the best areas of investment in the card and in customer acquisition is just the surface areas that your products sit on. the way that customers come in the front door and the point-of-sale side of the business. I wanted to maybe talk specifically about the 0% strategy. It's been in a lot of focus over the last two years. And I wanted to maybe take a step back, because we often get asked about the mechanics for how you scale this product efficiently over the network without going to each individual merchant and negotiating custom NDRs and things of that nature. So can you talk about just the channels that help you scale 0% distribution and make it easier for merchants of all sizes to participate in, whether it's the wallet partnerships, PSP partnerships, and so on. And, you know, I think it also might be helpful to talk about how 0% offers work on the card when people use the Affirm card.

Max Levchin, CEO

There's a lot of there. That's probably several layers in one question. I'll try to hit them all, but if I skip something, feel free to point that out. a bunch of different things that have to come together for zero percent programs to work across a firm so kind of in no particular order but there's five as i'm counting them in my head different technologies that we have to build so one of the things that libor likes to say we embrace channel conflict so as a an active participant in digital wallets and our own card which we love for people to use, and direct integration with hundreds of thousands of merchants, and integrations with ISVs and platforms, inevitably, these days, you go to a merchant, and there's three different ways or five different ways to pay with a firm by going through different doors. It's very important for us that no door is better or worse than any other one. Otherwise, we are actively discouraging a partner from supporting us or promoting us. And so we have an entire initiative called UFP, Universal Financing Programs, where generally speaking, with very few exceptions, if you are at a merchant X and you're trying to pay with a firm, you are going to encounter basically the same deal. There's some exceptions. Sometimes some promotion doesn't get updated in time, et cetera, but that's very much an exception, not the rule. The rule is if you decided to pull out your favorite digital wallet and then put it back in and pull out your card, if there's a zero available, you're going to find it in both places. And if you're going directly, you're going to find it. So that infrastructure has existed for a few years. We built it primarily as we scaled with digital wallets and ISVs, and that was quite an undertaking. It's more than just a technology. Obviously, technologically, there's some complexity around how do you settle, things like settlement time, time value of money comes into play, et cetera. The more important piece is the ability to change terms. As these terms come up in one source, they need to be reflected in all the other channels. So there's also a legal component where the contracts with merchants, the things that they sign, allows us to change these pricings, et cetera, within the confines that they configure, obviously, et cetera. So U of P is kind of one piece of it. The other piece of offering these zeros is the ability to offer them not as a blanket product. So it's very easy to say, hey, let's just give everyone no interest at all. It'll be great. You can imagine that is a very, very expensive affair, especially if we're talking about longer terms. So our calling card from the very beginning has always been these long-term loans where you're not just getting a 0% loan for six weeks or three months. we will go as far as four years sometimes where a consumer really pays no interest. And if it's your first time, I rage against the idea of deferred interest because I hate the notion of we promise you a 0%, but don't read the fine print because it might flip and become retroactively compounding some horrible sounding number. And so anytime a firm promises you a 0% loan, it is in fact a real 0% loan. It can be delinquent. You can take a break. I hope you don't. But if you take a break from paying us for a year, you'll still eventually pay 0% of interest because that's the promise we make. That's the brand we've built. We are the transparency first lender, et cetera. And so to make sure it is not prohibitively expensive for the merchant who's paying for these zeros, we built what initially was known as adaptive checkout, eventually became Adapt AI, and then culminated in this thing called Boost AI, which all the acronyms or all the fancy terms boil down to one very specific thing. Any time through any of these doors where a firm is offered, as a consumer goes through, based on the best possible, highest converting probability anyway, lowest cost to the merchant, that is the offer that the consumer will see. It also has to be synchronized with the advertising the merchant can do, both technically and legally. There's many restrictions around. Reg Z has a bunch of things to say about truth in advertising as it pertains to loans being offered. So you can imagine there's a very complex piece of infrastructure that figures out something like, if you're going to Merchant X and you're looking at a price and it says as low as 0%, that typically means that we've already been able to underwrite you and decide that you're almost certainly going to qualify for a true 0%, and that's what you'll see as you check out. So that's Adapt AI and Boost AI together. there. Finally, not every merchant actually has the margin to subsidize zeros as much as they love them. By the way, 0% loans are fantastically conversion-inducing. So a typical impact for a merchant if they offer 0% for these longer-term, higher-ticket items, something like an 80% increase in basket size and on the order of 25% increase in conversion. So these are outlier, best marketing tool you can possibly imagine. These are also slightly less profitable for or a firm, or any lender trying to do this, because there's no consumer interest at all. And so underwriting that goes into this has almost no room for error. If you screw up underwriting and you make too many 0% loans or too many low interest loans, you're going to end up with a book that's upside down. And so underwriting is a key underpinning, which is why all these AI pieces had to come in to make sure that we don't offer offers we cannot support. To make sure we have enough margin to actually subsidize enough loans to make this as compelling as I just quoted for these merchants, we ask, of course, we talk to every vertically integrated merchant and say, look, you're probably sitting on a 40%, 50%, 60% gross margin. You would be foolish not to give us 7%, 8%, 9% of it so that we can turn this into a bonanza of 0% deals. Some merchants do this all the time, all day long, because they love it. If you look no further than some of the famous sports brands or sports equipment brands of yesteryear, They typically run 0% programs the entire year. They don't wait for Christmas sales. Some of the brands that we work with decide that they only want to do this during sales, retail calendar, et cetera. Another way of funding these is what we call BSP, brand-sponsored promotions. This works really well for general merchandisers that have many, many brands on their shelves, virtual or otherwise, where it's the brand that's actually paying for the sponsorship. So this is now a three-way transaction. A firm is underwriting, promoting, pricing, presenting the deal. The retailer ships, fulfills, et cetera, but it's the brand that's kicking in their margin to subsidize a 0% deal. In a normal time or normal world, this is a three-way deal that has to be signed every time. Like, this does not scale. And we didn't invent this idea. This has existed in banking and cards world for quite some time. But it's typically limited to like a few of these at a time because there's such a pain to actually make sure there's a meeting of the mind. So it's schedule dependent, budget dependent. It also reveals information about who has what margin to offer, which is never a good idea. Retailers and brands notoriously hide margin from each other. So we built a platform that allows us to facilitate these deals without revealing too much information while offering all the participants still a lot of transparency into what's happening. If I confuse the hell out of you with all of this, don't worry too much about it. It works beautifully. I almost quoted the percentage of the BSP zero volume in our last letter, but decided to hold back. But it's a good number, and it's growing really well. But I'll have one last PS on this one. So everything I just rattled off, if it makes sense, I'm glad you're following it. If it doesn't make sense, don't worry about it just yet. BST is the largest project ZT1 is working on. So this is the next big thing that came out of ZT1. It's now live enough where it's running hundreds of millions of dollars of volume, so it's far from experimental. I have a lot of confidence it'll scale into a very, very large product for us, and it came out entirely of ZT1. So by the time it is at the billion scale, I'll also figure out a way to market it, both to investors and to analysts. The good news is that it markets itself really well to merchants and brands, and consumers only need to understand that when they come into a firm, they see a 0% deal. There's no asterisk. They're not going to get screwed. It's a true 0% deal. And so it's one of the finer examples where the product is easy to explain. The underpinnings are actually very, very complex.

Zane Keller, Head of Investor Relations

There was a lot there, but I think a lot of it centered on just the creative ways that you guys think about distribution. Maybe pivoting to some of the other distribution channels you have, I think the wallet partnerships have been a consistent call-out in the letter, both as a driver of G&D growth as well as a big contributor to active merchant count and particularly non-integrated merchants, so merchants that you don't work with on a direct basis. How do you see wallets contributing going forward? And then how do you think about it both from a volume generator but also from a customer acquisition channel as well?

Max Levchin, CEO

I think we've been very fortunate to be partnered with some of the best digital wallets. And the initial expectation for us was certainly it's another door. If people can't go through it and find a firm where they expect it, that's a problem. We have to address it. And so we mostly came at it with a point of view of we just have to make sure a firm is supported inside blank, fill in your favorite digital wallets. The good and sort of maybe slightly unexpected news is that it has turned out to be something of a growth channel, customer acquisition channel for us, which we've been very happy to lean into and are continuing to do so. If you expand your definition or expand your mind slightly when you think of digital wallets to include some of the more agentic first sort of chatbot interactions, even things that have happened inside some of the browsers most recently, you can pretty quickly see how this could be a huge source of new consumers. There's amazing features inside Chrome and really all the browsers that have come out recently as every one of these companies have prepared for what shopping looks like in a world of AI. We integrate with, I think, all of those at this point, and it's been a great source of both transactions and recently user acquisition. So I think it's the sort of thing that product speaks for itself. We can actually test it out and just see how well it works. I mean, I know some of our people, some of our firmers believe that the best way to use Affirm is actually through one or some of the digital wallets. So it's definitely very much a first-class citizen as far as integrations go.

Zane Keller, Head of Investor Relations

Another distribution channel that's been a pretty big theme this year has been around ISVs, like Intuit and QuickBooks in particular, as well as Service Titan. what have you learned from the early innings with these big platform relationships and I guess A, how did the product need flex for services versus the traditional retail channels you operate in and then how do you think about other verticals that are potentially good fits for ISV distribution?

Max Levchin, CEO

It turned out to be kind of a pretty amazing thing. We obviously knew what we were signing up for trying to partner with folks at Intuit and Service Titan, etc. We always understood there was a ton of opportunity and came to that with great gusto and ideas. The thing that we were kind of blown away by is the richness of use cases. And it's always very easy to say, cool, but not today, when you speak to, I don't know, a cosmetic surgery clinic. Somebody, you know, someone who runs one of these places will tell you oh my god half of my volume is financed and I hate my provider they're complicated they overcharge I don't have any transparency consumers don't like them would you guys please build something it's like sure but we have no idea how big it is partnering with ISVs gives you this instance of a very compelling picture like that's a hundred billion dollar industry you figure out 1% of that that's a lot but you know that that that actually still, you know, adds up to the targets of today. And so ISVs are as much about just gaining volume, you know, partnering with good people, but it's also about learning that things that appear niche-y as you talk to merchants, and I spend a lot of time talking to merchants, and certainly our revenue team does, you sometimes would benefit greatly by just zooming out and saying, wait a second, like, what is that inside some giant ISV report that we get? And it's like, wow, that's a much bigger industry than I expected. And so that gives us inspiration to customize a product because we understand just how big the opportunity is. And so it did not enter my mind that Elective Medical was going to be an enormous opportunity for us until we saw just how big it is inside a couple of ISVs, actually, that served that industry. And intuitively, like, well, it's big, but, like, how big could it really be? And they're like, actually, it's enormous, and we should be so lucky to go and build the right products for it. And so it's a source of engineering and product innovation for us. We're very committed to partnering more. Now that we've done a bunch of these deals, we actually understand what success looks like. We know where we can go fast, where we have to go step by step. Maybe one last thought on that one. I've said it before, maybe even from this stage. There's as big an opportunity in what we do in small business as it is in consumer. One of the things that ISVs teach you very quickly is that it really is that big. There's plenty of B2B products that this genre of borrowing needs, and we'll certainly have something to say about that at some point. Another good DT1 project, maybe.

Zane Keller, Head of Investor Relations

Okay, I think our last question probably, but you mentioned before we got on stage You were fresh off the tapes from London, I believe, 24 hours ago. International expansion has been a big topic, part of the growth algorithm that you've articulated over the next couple of years. You know, you've launched in several different markets, but I think the U.K. is probably farthest along. So maybe talk a little bit about early learning so far, the market receptivity, and then just how quickly that playbook can be compressed and, you know, replicated in newer markets.

Max Levchin, CEO

So far, so good. I was just in the U.K. the last few days and met with a handful of merchants, some of the larger ones that we have either won, haven't launched, or are trying to win. The good news is that we were right when we said that the market wants our brand of product. Obviously, U.K. is a well-addressed buy-in-out-pay-later market. Australia, where we just launched with Shopify, is extremely well-addressed. That's where one of the original players comes from Australia. And so the risk was always maybe they have it all figured out. We don't add a lot of value. That is not the case. In the U.K., the conversation is focused entirely around how longer terms really matter, how they love the transparency, how they love the no-LAP posture. They love the clarity we bring to the idea of we will not market brand A to brand B customers just because both are paying us. Plenty of merchants are concerned with leakage of data, the way we sort of built our company, I think, provides a lot of assurance that we will not quietly monetize our own customers against each other. And so I think that's been very successful so far. Obviously, the U.S. is still growing so quickly. It'll be a little while before international volume starts becoming a big noticeable part of the overall, but it's growing really well. We have a handful of brands we're excited to hopefully bring over the line. any minute now. And we're definitely fully committed to it. One of the major things that we did organizationally, we have now created a role of an SVP whose sole job is driving international strategy across the globe from the top, which it sounds like we didn't know what we were doing. It's as though we didn't have a strategy, but now having someone who wields a significant amount of power, influence, happens to be someone who's been at a firm also for, you know, a dozen years. So having someone who's very senior, this woman, Pat, is going to do great for the team's confidence in our conviction but also just access to top-level resources. So very excited about that. I'll be back in Europe in less than two weeks. So I'm personally involved in a lot of the international work too.

Zane Keller, Head of Investor Relations

Hopefully back in a year and more to say.

Max Levchin, CEO

Oh, yeah. I should hope so.

Zane Keller, Head of Investor Relations

Well, that does take us time, Max. There's always a lot to cover, but really appreciate the time and all the thoughts on the business, and thanks for being with us today.