Conference Transcript - CORZ 2026-05-28

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our 54th annual TDCow and CMT conference. If you don't know me, my name is Michael Ellis, Communications Infrastructure Analyst here. Today we're joined by Core Scientific, and from Core Scientific we have their CEO, Adam Sullivan. The last two sessions I said I would take questions. I don't even think this go-around. I'm going to even try. We'll get into it, and we'll talk. So, Adam, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Thanks so much for having me.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

Let's kick things off by starting with strategic priorities. I remember you came out in November. You said what your priorities were. As we get into the second half of the year, what are the updated priorities set for the business?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Right now, it's really the expansion across the five new sites that we have under development. We did our capital raise just about a month ago now. Putting the $3 billion on the balance sheet was incredibly important in terms of being able to pre-fund a significant amount of equity that is required as part of the project. So building out that breadth of portfolio, putting the capital in the ground, getting GC secured, long lead equipment secured, those were all incredibly important and put us in a position to win contracts here. I mean, we're working to diversify our customer base, and I think that's going to be, you know, that's a lot easier with a position we're putting ourselves in with the capital deployment we've been able to do over the course of the past six months.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

As you think about the demand set, from an industry basis, we've seen a big acceleration in demand. How have the conversations, and this isn't a question about sites or anything like that. This is more of a question about the customer's own requirements. How have the requirements evolved since November of last year to today? Are you seeing a shift in terms of densities?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Are you seeing a shift in terms of what is underlying it at the hyperscaler or AI lab level? any observations there yeah I mean there's been significant changes in the past six months which has been pretty incredible to watch I think you saw the hyperscalers executing a lot of demand through neo clouds and q3 and q4 of last year you know realizing they have a larger structural demand they've come into the market obviously very strong you know what we're seeing is you know the first data holes that we're building out across each of the five sites essentially for gb 300s i think that you know part two of that is future buildings you know shifting to 800 volt you know that's going to become a requirement for a lot of deliveries in 28. i think those are all things that you know we are trying to be at the forefront on and being as accommodative as possible in terms of how we're thinking about design for future development so you know that's a big change in supply chain it's a big change in purchasing but um you know we're putting ourselves in the best position to be able to to sign long-term contracts that have multiple years of deployment. And to do that, you have to be accommodating to a significant amount of design changes that are going to be coming down the pipe here very soon.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

As we think about, so you have a portfolio of sites, some of which you have leased, others you're looking to lease. But then there's a flywheel where you need to continue to add capacity, buy land, and so on. When you're thinking about going and expanding the portfolio, what is it that you're seeing in the conversations with the customers, be it roadmaps or what have you, that gives you the confidence to go out and say, hey, we need to acquire X amount of land. We need to keep going. We see visibility and demand through 2028, 2029, so we need to restock the shelves.

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Yeah, I mean, I think for us right now, we have the power secured. I think for us, over the past four months, we've been very aggressive on land purchasing. The big change that I think is just starting to get recognized in the market today today was the shift from a hard cap in the very low double digits as it relates to behind the meter for hyperscalers to now that shift moving to greater than 50% that they will allow and behind the meter, quite a significant amount of land, significant amount of engineering planning as it relates to getting distribution pipelines to the sites and securing pipeline capacity of natural gas. But I think those were changes that we foresaw. We've been very aggressive in terms of our planning as it relates to that. and you know we have enough power right now for our development pipeline for the next three years which we feel very good about and you know right now it's just comes down to you know having five sites first RFS in 27 that puts us in the best position to be able to you know go out win contracts and for us the great part is and I think this is something that you know isn't well understood is the fact that our RFS states don't slip if you know the conversations drag an extra 30 days with the customer and it frankly just puts us in a stronger position where that site gains more value every single day we continue to put dollars into the site you know as you think about as you think about the

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

business that you're you're building your first deal is with obviously core weave you have incremental capacity that you're looking to lease you know we've seen bit of shifts in the market in terms of finance ability and different contracts with the demand for capital yeah I'm curious how do you think about engaging with customers who are not investment grade yes and as part of that the requirement to have some form of backstop, and is there, I appreciate there are different flavors, but is that a hardline requirement? And if so, what flavor?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

It is a hardline requirement. There has to be some type of backstop. I mean, I think, you know, as we look out over the course of the next 10 years, when you think about the evolution of the NeoCloud business, which is essentially where the non-IG customers are, you know, it's thinking about the long-term stability of certain businesses and picking winners. I think you know core we've obviously far and away you know market leader the talent they've been able to bring to that business and I think the sustainability of that business is incredibly strong I think some are more unproven but you also have to recognize that you know some of the chip makers want other winners other than you know core weave and nebius in the market and there's gonna be a number of new and we'll call them you know hyperscalers that emerge out of this class and I think there's gonna be a lot of consolidation. And I think, you know, we've spent a lot of time negotiating credit wraps with a number of different investment-grade counterparties for deals we're negotiating with NeoClouds. I think some of them are very attractive. I think others, you know, are frankly a lot more challenging than I think. You know, they have a lot tougher sledding than they expect, right, on the NeoCloud side. They don't have the talent necessary to execute the scale that they're looking to execute on. But, you know, at the higher end of the NeoCloud space, I think a lot of those have acquired such incredible talent from across the hyperscalers and traditional cloud businesses that, you know, they have the capability to be successful.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

You know, one of the things that I struggle with is that, you know, I think of the hyperscalers, obviously they have established recurring revenue businesses, but then as I think of some of the chip companies, it's like, yes, the financials have, and the revenue has gone crazy because we're in this cycle. It's a non-recurring revenue business structurally. As you think about backstops, do you also feel comfortable with the chip companies backstopping, recognizing that there isn't that same recurring revenue piece in their business? Does that make sense?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Yeah. No, it does. I think the thing that we've thought through a lot is, and it's kind of vendor lock-in at this point, right? So it's like the discussions, whether it's NVIDIA, whether it's AMD, whether it's Google, I mean, they're so focused right now on how do they secure not the sales cycle, but the next sales cycle. And giving the credit backstop is essentially a forcing mechanism to not only sell that first 40 billion in chips, but to lock in the next $40 billion sale, you know, six years from now. And so I think, you know, there's a significant amount of credit that's going to be extended on that basis of how do you vendor lock in a lot of these bigger companies, and especially locking in certain neoclouds into certain vendors. Obviously, we have winners on the NVIDIA side. We have, obviously, CoreWeave being far and away. I think the market leader on that side. There's companies like Tensor Wave that are being chosen by AMD to really be a market leader. And I think you're going to continue to see Google pick new folks for them to try to lock in folks into the TPU infrastructure. So this is all part of a broader plan. How do they secure, essentially, recurring revenue out of selling GPUs every few years.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

Oh, that sounds... I want to pivot and talk about Pecos and Muskogee, but just more at a high level. You've talked to different customers at this point regarding the site. Just from your conversations with customers, kind of general feedback, thoughts, has there been anything that's a particular obstacle to getting a deal done? And then conversely, what are the elements of the sites that the customers find most attractive?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Yeah, I mean, I think it's always labor, number one. Pecos, you know, it's a challenging location from a labor perspective. I think the good part about Pecos and what we've de-risked over the course of the past, you know, since November, is the fact that we have GCs, we have subs engaged. You know, that's always the first question. It's like, how are you going to get concrete to the site? Well, we had to build a concrete plant on the site, right? Because you can't ship concrete that far from the nearest concrete plant. And so for us to be able to deploy that much concrete in that location required us to mix on site. So we've de-risked a number of different factors from that perspective. But then you look at a site like our Muskogee site, incredible, incredible opportunity. We're obviously already building there with a 70-megawatt data center for CoralWeave. But you have Google building a 600-megawatt data center in the property next door to us. And so just from a labor perspective, it's incredibly competitive. And I think those are two isolated cases. But on the other side of that is you're seeing that nationwide as well. It's an extremely competitive labor market. But I think on the other side of that, Pecos' ability to expand is just something that is incredibly enticing to customers right now. That shift I talked about earlier in terms of willing to push further into behind the meters and percentage of the overall site makes Pecos incredibly attractive. I mean, we couldn't be closer to more natural gas pipelines in West Texas. So, you know, from that perspective, Pecos is an incredible opportunity for us. Muskogee, we're incredibly excited about continuing to expand. You know, obviously working closely with the governor out in Oklahoma as it relates to behind the meter as well. And just the amount of power that we're going to be able to achieve at that site is just incredibly large and a great opportunity for us.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

One of the things when I think about both those sites, and correct me if I have this wrong, there's an initial utility. You have utility power up to a certain amount, right? And then from there, you're supplementing it with on-site generation, recognizing that there is actually a utility piece on-site and understanding that the ideal pathway for the hyperscalers to get power these data centers is through utility. Does utility represent a meaningful differentiation in the customer conversations, or is it solely about speed to market? The source of the electron is less relevant.

Adam Sullivan, CEO

It's really less relevant. I mean, this is all about speed to power at this point. And, you know, we can solve via behind the meter the first nine. We can solve via batteries and generators the next two nines. And so, you know, I think they're getting comfort around it. I think the big part is, you know, the first buildings that are going up, at least the first building, in some cases multiple buildings, are utility, which gives them a lot more comfort. And the fact that we have additional power coming at those sites later also gives them more comfort just as it relates to their ability to continue to expand and scale. And the timelines I'm behind the meter right now, you can deploy hundreds of megawatts inside of 18 months. The biggest long pole in the 10 is really just as it relates to distribution-level pipelines getting to the sites. Like your trunk lines and laterals and yeah, got it. But, I mean, frankly, those are two sites that are going to be incredibly large. And, you know, I have an expectation that those are going to scale, you know, fit to a very similar size to what we're kind of quoting right now, which is a gig of critical IT load.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

You know, one of the things that when I think about the industry is there are two times when you celebrate. First is when you sign a deal. The second is when you deliver the deal on time and on budget. You know, now you're through a process. and I think you're halfway through delivering or just about halfway through delivering for CoreWeave. What have been the key learnings through that process? And what do you take from that to building out at scale Pecos and Muscogee?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Yeah, I mean, we had 245 megawatts fully commissioned live GPU spinning. At our last earnings call, we had 200 going through the commissioning process. So we'll be around 450 at the end of the summer this year. you know, absolutely incredible learnings. And I think a lot of them stem from two areas. First is design, in creating a much more flexible infrastructure base. Obviously we're designing for a lot of core design customers, which are some of the largest companies in the world. And, you know, just learning what their needs are, how they're thinking about, you know, future development as it relates to the shift into the next GPU cycle. You know, being able to aggregate all of that information, design information that we've gone through and processes we've gone through has helped us create our new standard basis of design, which is a lot more flexible. And for us, it's created a much easier time for us to order parts on the supply chain side. I think part two of this is securing great partners on the labor side that have national footprints that can support you across multiple sites. One of the biggest learnings is when you're going into small communities, which is where a lot of our facilities are, partnering with certain groups that you're bringing in from out of state that aren't necessarily part of a broader national brand you know they there's no allegiance there right and they're willing to you know reallocate labor to other projects because they're gonna get paid you know 30% more on another project and so you start to bleed some labor as it relates to that and you know through the process of building these first five sites and now with the next five sites that we have coming down the pipe you know picking really strong partners on the labor side and making sure that the labor doesn't walk off or parts of the labor pool don't walk off throughout the construction process, that's a huge learning here for us because small tweaks on schedule can create much broader impact over the 18-month build process. Frankly, we've chosen being able to choose and work with a lot of really strong national partners that have really helped us as we continue to grow these new sites.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

You know, would you say, as you think about expanding the portfolio, would you say that the leasing to these sites is a priority before continuing to expand additional capacity? Like, how do you think about the balance between the two of those? What was the first part? It was like, how do you think about the balance between adding net new sites that you can lease to the portfolio versus leasing it first, then going and refilling the tank? Like, is there a priority with which you are going to grow? Does that make sense?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

But I'll answer it. I'll answer your question anyway. I think for us right now, it's like we have the 1.5 grid connected power on the critical IT load side. I think from the perspective of what we're negotiating right now, there's going to be significant amounts of behind the meter, both Pegas and Muscogee. That's going to be a, there's a limit in terms of how many megawatts we could potentially build in a year and you know there's gonna be a significant focus on Pegasus Muscogee obviously is the is the upfront you know Hunt is an incredible site we're going through the process right now behind the meter but that's another site that's expected to scale significantly then we have two smaller sites that I would call are kind of power locked yeah our Dalton site 120 critical IT load megawatts and Auburn 32 you know those are still really attractive sites but you know those are going to be kind of one and done situations so you know focusing on the sites that are going to continue to scale while still managing the projects obviously GC has been engaged for a while at Auburn that site's moving very well and Dalton 5 is a site that you know we have Dalton 1 and Dalton 4 which are you know Dalton 1 is fully operational turned over to CoreWeave Dalton 4 is also a CoreWeave site so Dalton 5 is a 120 megawatt building that you know frankly is you know perfect for GP300s and is scaling very quickly you know we're already you know through civil work there so I think the focus for us is just really continuing to scale at the existing sites and finding the right clients that we can continue to scale at those sites for us as we think about pipeline moving forward we're looking at really power that delivers the end of 29 20 beginning of 2030 so for us it's a lot cheaper opportunity not having to pay up for you know power in 28 because

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

frankly if we bought 28 power we couldn't we couldn't build it yeah so I I was going to say, implicit in the answer to your question, or you answered it, which is that you can only build so much. I've been thinking for you guys, a rough frame of like 400 to maybe 600 megawatts a year that you could deliver. You tell me you have three gigs in total that you could build out. You have runway for the next few years. Okay, cool. As we think about build costs, because you were the first one to sign in this space, and deal, you have a sense of in 2025, 2024, what the build costs were looking like. One, how have they evolved? I appreciate it's going to depend based on design, but just as you think of more broadly how they evolved. And then second, where have you seen the most inflation as part of the overall build costs?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Yeah, I mean, first and foremost, we'll talk about inflation, right? That's on labor. 20% nearly across the board, 30% on electricians. It's year over year, it's been a significant increase. And you're talking about labor being used to be 30% of our overall build cost, now flexing closer to 40 or higher. So labor is obviously an incredibly important part about this entire exercise that relates to build cost. I think the interesting part that we're going to see over the course of the next two years is we saw an inflation of build cost. You go back a few years, you're looking at, let's call it 8 million a megawatt. That's slowly inflated. We're now touching 11 and a half, 12 million a megawatt. as we go through the design changes that NVIDIA is expecting to go through as it relates to Vera Rubin and even really the change to 800 volt, I think we're actually going to start to see that pare back a little bit.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

Interesting.

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Because they're pulling certain parts of the design out of, or they're pulling certain structures out of that design that actually will lower the overall build cost. And frankly, some of that's just related to how do we remove the longest lead parts of the supply chain to essentially allow us to build data centers faster. And so that's where a significant amount of design and engineering work has gone into. And I could easily see that paring back down to closer to 10 over the coming years.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

Interesting. What would you strip out? I mean, if you're stripping out long lead, we already stripped out gensets, largely on the compute train. That was a long lead. You probably can't strip out MV switchgear. I know that's like a two-year lead time item. Just curious, like, what do you see?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

I mean, the next big thing is, like, stripping out UPSs. That's what I'm feeling. We're going to say that.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

All right, cool. So inflation on the labor side. Now, as you think about the ability, yes, there's price. But then price is rising, I would argue, in part because of the volume of demand for these items, which then the derivative question becomes lead times. Like, where are you seeing the longest lead times? and I think you made a comment earlier when you were talking about gents that start doing on-site generation that you can get them in actually a reasonable time frame. Did I misinterpret that?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

It's about a 14-month delivery timeline right now.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

Okay, all right.

Adam Sullivan, CEO

The biggest item, though, is medium voltage. I mean, switchgear right now, you're just looking at 100 weekly times. And so it's something that we've been very proactive about bringing that you know, pretty buying a significant amount of capacity on the medium voltage side. Obviously, that's something that can be easily, you know, changed between sites. You know, if we need to pull megawatts that we were sending to Dalton into Pecos or Muskogee, we can do that. But that's something that we've really had to get ahead of the supply chain on, just given it's really challenging to bring that in tighter.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

Well, that makes sense. I wanted to shift and talk a bit philosophical with you about how you think about approaching pricing and yields and so on, right? You know, you can take the traditional real estate argument. Okay, this is a spread of cost of capital business, and I need it. What's my financing cost? It's a function of my tenant, and then I price a spread on top of that. You know, there are also other approaches, right? You're thinking about, all right, what is the, as I'm exiting, because I'm building it to sell, I'm not holding it over a 15-year period, what's my exit and what's my IRR there? When you're negotiating these deals, how do you think about structuring it? How do you think about yields? What is the governing principles that's determining how you're negotiating from a price or yield standpoint?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

I mean, I think it's actually, you know, there's limited negotiation power, right? with hyperscalers they know what the cap is in terms of what they're willing to pay on a dev yield basis and i think you know some people have quoted very high numbers on hyperscale deals i frankly think you know everything's going to come down to probably a 12 to 14 yield um you know it's it's easy for us to model hyperscale deals i think that where you're going to find alphas and neocloud deals at some point um you'll be able to pick the right winners on that side you know getting high teens is going to be the people who choose the right ones and it's nearly impossible from all of our seats right now to know exactly who's going to be the winners there yeah but you know i think that if you're if you're searching for alpha in the space you have to go to neoclouds because you have a significant amount of pricing power where you don't have pricing power right now is necessarily the hyperscalers you know i think on some of the yields that I hear quoted, it seems to me like the swing factor is the build cost that they're using for the denominator is lower, right?

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

Some folks talk about building at, let's call it $9 million a megawatt, which just seems, for me, quite low in this environment. Would you say that if you're fully burdening your build costs, would you say that the hyperscale is reasonably comfortable with giving a 10% unlevered yield on costs.

Adam Sullivan, CEO

I would say that might be the highest end.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

10% unlevered. That's interesting. Now, the other thing that we see in the market is that with how big these data center deals are getting, the numbers on turnkey, I hear from the customers, the numbers on turnkey stop making sense, i.e., this is a lot of data center lease obligations. And it does seem like we're seeing an element of a desire to shift back to a powered shell. Swap your OpEx for CapEx. I'll do more of the fit-out work. I have a customer. We'll do that. How do you think about willingness to do a Powered Shell deal? Or what we've seen some private operators do is a hybrid deal. A portion of this is Powered Shell. A portion of it is turnkey. Gets you to a more attractive blended return. How do you think about that?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Yeah, I mean, I would say we're not necessarily focused on Powered Shell. I think we've looked at a number of different hybrid deals. Hybrid deals are about 9 million a megawatt. It's like, it's a little bit further than three-quarters turnkey. You know, I think some of those actually pencil out better on a yield perspective, albeit you're deploying a lot less capital. But, you know, from a delivery standpoint, the hardest part about delivery is the last mile. And so if you're eliminating that, you're actually eliminating a bit of development risk, which actually, from an overall perspective of signing customers and being able to deliver on time and meeting SLAs, that actually might be an easier pathway forward. And so I wouldn't say that's our strike zone right now. Our strike zone right now is full delivery, GPU-ready facilities, because that's really where a lot of the market is, albeit this might be a flash in the pan for some of the hyperscalers who are used to signing PowerShell deals. I think we've seen that mainly from AWS is traditionally a PowerShell. So I think from their perspective, they will probably migrate back to that at some point.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

Here's one thing. When we think about the evolution of the data center market, I think of Digital Realty and CoreSight, they were born out of the pain of the dot-com bust, right? GI served as a consolidator, and that's what led to Digital Realty in part in its current You know, how do you think about the opportunity to be a consolidator in this space? There are a lot of new providers, not only on the private side, but I'd also say on the public side as well. You know, how do you think about consolidating? And as part of that, do you keep an eye to making sure that the business continues to be in a strong enough position where if that opportunity were to present itself, you're able to prosecute on it?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Yeah, I mean, I think right now valuations are inflated across the board on the public side. I think valuations on the private side are probably still a bit inflated. I think what we're going to see over the next 12 months is where execution actually is going to come to the forefront. And so people who are having significant missteps, valuations are going to come to a much more reasonable range and create an opportunity for relative value plays with deals that are actually accretive to the business. So for us, it's about signing the next few large customers, building out our organic pipeline essentially to take our valuation much higher from where it is today and put ourselves in a position to be a consolidator you know I think that's a what we're gonna see is essentially a replication of what we saw in the data center industry in the past it's gonna happen on a much faster timeline though just given how much build is occurring over a short period of time is the enterprise at all the focus for you over the medium to long term is the what sorry enterprise like going after the enterprise opportunity you know Recognizing that enterprises, we're seeing more of these 50, 100, some even 150 megawatt opportunities, right?

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

I appreciate it's a different go to market than giving your whole campus to hyperscaler or, but is that something that you think about pursuing over time?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Yeah, we looked very closely at it, including building out designs to essentially do five megawatt pods inside of 100 megawatt build out. I mean, those are things that we've definitely considered. I think for us, that's probably gonna come through acquisition initially. because there are some companies on the private side that are focused on some of these smaller-scale build-outs, especially as it relates to smaller facilities closer to metros that are attacking more on the enterprise channel. It is a different business model, and I think it's something that's going to come with time, and frankly, right now, it's like you win one hyperscale deal. It takes the same amount of time as winning one enterprise deal, but the one enterprise deal is 20 megawatts, right?

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

Yeah, it's also a higher return.

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Yeah, but you have to think about engineering and dev cycles, right? We're limited in the amount of cycles our engineering team has. And so we have to be very cognizant of how we're dedicating those cycles. And really right now the focus is just on larger scale single tenant sites.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

How do you think about long-term being a REIT? Is that something that even comes across the, I appreciate you're in growth mode now, but is that something that's on the dashboard for the longer term?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Yeah, I mean, I think it has to be, right? As you think about, we do have a significant amount of NOLs today. So we're a few years out from that. But I think there's gonna be a new format of essentially data center REITs that are large single tenant campuses. They consider diversification 10 clients, not thousands. And I think the big question mark is, how did those get valued on a multiple basis? Look forward five years from now. I think there's going to be a few winners in that space that consolidate. I think the main competitors for that are actually going to be the folks that, like Blackstone and their new public company as it relates to buying stabilized assets. I think it's really going to be a competitive process between those folks buying assets, which I think will be some of the largest reads in the world very quickly, and competitors that are consolidating in this space like us.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

Last question for you. You've made your bet on the front lines for the last few years. What keeps you up at night?

Adam Sullivan, CEO

You know, I think right now it's mainly as it relates to, you know, things in the community level. You know, it's something that hasn't necessarily kept us up in the past. You know, we were a Bitcoin miner. Every community we went to, we were the black sheep. We did a tremendous job at going to every community. You know, you could find a 5K in every community that's named after us. We're the largest donator at every food bank. But we do a lot in the community, and I think the challenge right now is just there's a significant amount of public backlash as it relates to data centers in a way that we didn't necessarily even see fully on the Bitcoin mining side. And so I think for us right now, it's just how do we continue to stay at the forefront of being heavily engaged in the community and working really closely with community leaders to ensure that we're getting the right information out about what we do as a company. me, but it's for sure something that keeps me up at night because, frankly, I think it's something that the hyperscalers have not done a good job at, and I think they've created a lot more angst amongst local communities than trust, and so that's something that we spent a lot of time focused on internally.

Michael Ellis, Analyst — TD Cowen

I could sit here for another hour, but we've got to wrap it up. Thank you so much.

Adam Sullivan, CEO

Really appreciate it.