ADTRAN Holdings, Inc. Q1 FY2025 Earnings Call

Good morning. My name is Sarah, and I will be your conference operator. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to ADTRAN Holdings First Quarter 2025 Financial Results Conference Call. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. Thank you. Mr. Peter Schuman, Vice President, Investor Relations, you may begin your conference.

Thank you, Sarah. Welcome and thank you for joining us today for ADTRAN Holdings' first quarter 2025 financial results conference call, and welcome to all those joining by webcast. During the conference call, ADTRAN representatives will make forward-looking statements that reflect management's best judgment based on factors currently known. However, these statements involve risks and uncertainties, including those detailed in our earnings release, our annual report on Form 10-K, and our filings with the SEC. These risks and uncertainties could cause actual results to differ materially from those in our forward-looking statements, which may be made during the conference call. We undertake no obligation to update any statements to reflect events that occur after this call. During today's call, we refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of non-GAAP to GAAP measures and certain additional information are included in our Investor Presentation and earnings release. We have not provided reconciliations of our second quarter 2025 outlook with regard to non-GAAP operating margin because we cannot predict and quantify without unreasonable effort all of the adjustments that may occur during the period. The investor presentation has been updated and is available for download on the ADTRAN Investor Relations website. In addition, the financial measures discussed during the conference call are preliminary estimates. Turning to the agenda. Tom Stanton, ADTRAN Holdings' CEO and Chairman of the Board, will provide key investment highlights for the first quarter 2025; Tim Santo, our Senior Vice President and CFO, will review the quarterly financial performance in detail and our second quarter 2025 outlook, and then we will take any questions you may have. I would now like to turn the call over to Tom Stanton.

Thank you, Peter. Good morning, everyone. Before we discuss the quarterly results, I'd like to introduce Tim Santo, our new CFO, who joined ADTRAN in early March. Tim was brought on board because of his extensive experience in finance and operational leadership, including more than a decade in leadership roles at General Electric. He has over 25 years of international experience in finance, accounting, and operations across multiple industries. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Ulrich Dopfer for his significant contributions and leadership. ADTRAN's first quarter performance highlighted our improved operating efficiency and our strength in our business model. We delivered solid results with improvements across several key operating metrics. Revenue exceeded typical first quarter patterns, showing growth both sequentially and year-over-year. This increase reflects heightened customer activity and strong execution by our team. Our non-GAAP gross margin remained strong, and non-GAAP operating profit was at the high end of our guidance range. We also generated a robust $41.6 million in cash from operations and $22.9 million in free cash flow. We continue to believe that 2025 will be a year of accelerating performance, and this should translate to meaningful cash generation, which is a key strategic priority for us. Let me talk a little bit about tariffs. In the near term, the impact of tariffs is expected to be minimal. After 90 days, we are one of the few manufacturers that own and operate our own facilities, which puts us in a stronger position to respond effectively to policy changes. Although the environment is continuously evolving, and the mid to long-term effects from tariffs remain uncertain, ADTRAN is well positioned to adapt, thanks to our global customer base and diverse supply chain. Over the years, we have built a durable global network with manufacturing capabilities across the U.S. and Europe. We are actively managing production transfers and enhancing logistics to optimize our supply chain and navigate the evolving trade policies. Our manufacturing strategy is focused on diversifying geographies and operational flexibility. I am incredibly proud of our manufacturing and logistics teams for their swift decisive actions in handling these challenges. Their efforts have been instrumental in minimizing disruption and controlling costs, demonstrating the strength and flexibility of our operations. Now turning to the quarterly results. ADTRAN's revenue of $247.7 million was above the midpoint of our previous guidance, with all three of our product categories achieving year-over-year growth. This progress reinforces the strength across our networking portfolio that spans from the optical core to the customer premise. We delivered particularly strong growth in our Access and Aggregation Solutions segment, with 23% sequential and 10% year-over-year growth. This performance was driven by fiber footprint expansion initiatives and 10-gig network upgrade cycles, especially with our large European and Tier 2 U.S. service providers. Despite broader global economic uncertainties, the demand for high-speed fiber-based broadband services remains strong. Thanks to our differentiated portfolio and strong regional presence in the U.S. and Europe, ADTRAN continues to be a preferred partner. Our optical networking solutions category grew 4% year-over-year, with a 21% year-over-year increase in the U.S. market. Although we maintain a positive outlook for all of our optical customers, the highest year-over-year growth in optical has been with our enterprise, government, and Internet content provider customers. With ongoing vendor consolidation in the optical market and an industry-wide shift away from high-risk vendors, and all customers essentially having completed their inventory reductions, we are well-positioned for further growth in the optical networking solutions category. Our subscriber solutions category grew 15% year-over-year. This growth was driven by increased sales of residential gateways and ONTs as our service providers continue to have success in connecting more homes and businesses with fiber. The outlook for subscriber solutions is closely correlated to our success in passing more homes and businesses with our fiber access platforms. With high demand for Wi-Fi 7 platforms, continued customer adoption of fiber-based broadband and wholesale services, and continued innovation in our complementary software platforms, we are confident that we can drive further growth in this category. The year-over-year growth across each of these three major categories is a direct reflection of both the strength of our portfolio and the ability of our sales teams to better position our complete offerings. We are encouraged by the traction we are seeing as more customers recognize the value of our integrated solutions and the depth of our innovation across access, optical, and subscriber platforms. Underscoring that progress, during the quarter, we added another large service provider to our European customer base as we were awarded a share of both the fiber access and optical transport businesses. This large national service provider located in Southern Europe is a new customer to ADTRAN, and they specifically selected us for our strong regional presence paired with our complete portfolio offering spanning the optical core to the customer premise. Continuing with the theme of growing our business in Europe, we had another large service provider in the region select us for two key optical projects, one for mobile backhaul and another for mobile fronthaul. This is an operator where we are already an incumbent transport access vendor, and they see the value in expanding their business with a more scaled solutions partner. Moving to the U.S., our cross-selling strategy continues to pay off. We recently had a couple of our high growth U.S. national service providers, both of whom were incumbent access vendors, expand their business with us. One customer selected us for new optical transport deployments moving forward, and the other one selected us for carrier Ethernet business moving forward. These examples are representative of the encouraging trends we are increasingly having success leveraging our relationships and synergies in one portion of our portfolio to have success in other areas. These portfolio synergies start with our Mosaic software suite, which automates and simplifies the provisioning and monitoring of our solutions that span from the optical core to the customer premise. One example of this software is with our optical monitoring solutions that not only provide real-time in-service monitoring of transport networks, but can now extend that visibility all the way to the customer premises and point-to-multipoint networks. This solution was selected for an innovation award by the Fiber to the Home Council Europe in March alongside a separate award for a 50-gig PON solution. Our portfolio innovation and customer momentum remains strong. More customers continue to turn to ADTRAN to provide turnkey fiber networking solutions that scale from the optical core to the customer premise, while delivering best-in-class subscriber experiences through improved insight and automation. In summary, our quarter-end performance was at the higher end of guidance, giving us confidence that improving market conditions combined with continued solid execution will drive increased cash generation. We delivered above seasonal revenue and improved profitability with strong booking trends that give us optimism for continued positive momentum. Our customer base continues to expand, and we are developing strategic platforms with significant opportunities still ahead of us both in the U.S. and Europe. Importantly, our product portfolio has never been stronger. Fiber infrastructure growth remains strong, fueled by our customer expansion initiatives, vendor consolidation, a broad shift away from high-risk Chinese vendors, and new investments focused on AI-driven networking. Given our strong performance this past quarter and an improving outlook, we remain confident in our long-term operating targets, including gross margins in the low to mid 40% range and operating profit margins in the low double digits. While the frequent shifts in proposed government policies create potential for uncertainty, ADTRAN is uniquely well positioned to navigate market changes. Thanks to our globally diverse supply chain, operational flexibility, and strong customer relationships, we believe we are better insulated than most of our competitors. We are actively managing the evolving tariff landscape and are focused on minimizing the impact to our business and to our customers. With that, I will turn the call over to Tim, our CFO, to walk you through the financial results for the first quarter. And then following Tim's remarks, we will open up to any questions you may have.

Thank you, Tom, and thank you, everyone, for joining us on the call this morning. Before I walk through our preliminary financial results for Q1 2025 and discuss our expectations for Q2 2025, I'd like to take a moment to introduce myself and offer a little perspective on why I chose ADTRAN. So I've been with the company for just 2 months; I have had an opportunity to engage with many of our investors, analysts, and team members. These early conversations have been incredibly valuable as I continue to listen, learn, and build a deeper understanding of the business. What drew me to ADTRAN was the strong alignment between my background, the company's strategic priorities, and the opportunity to join a growing technology company with strong potential in an attractive market. Over the past 25 years, I have led corporate finance, accounting, and treasury functions across both global enterprises and transformation-focused organizations. My work is consistently centered on financial discipline, simplifying capital structures, and enabling strategic execution. Looking ahead, my priorities are clear: strengthening our capital structure, continuing to enhance the finance organization, and deepening engagement with our external stakeholders. These are essential elements in positioning ADTRAN to drive long-term sustainable value for our stockholders. With that, let's dive into the financial results for the first quarter of 2025. We began the year with a stronger than typical first quarter performance, exceeding seasonal trends amid a gradually improving industry environment. As market conditions continue to improve combined with recent customer wins, we are beginning to recognize the benefits of scale in our business. ADTRAN delivered revenue of $247.7 million for the first quarter, representing a year-over-year revenue increase of $21.6 million or approximately 10%. This is up $4.9 million or 2% sequentially, demonstrating our outsized seasonal trends while underscoring ongoing strength across several key areas of the business and exceeding the midpoint of our guidance. Our Network Solutions segment contributed revenue of $202.2 million, accounting for approximately 82% of total revenue in Q1 compared to 80% in the prior year. Our Services and Support segment generated $45.5 million of revenue, representing 18% of revenue in Q1 2025 compared to 20% in Q1 2024. Moving on to product categories. Access and Aggregation delivered revenue of $89.1 million or approximately 36% of total revenue and increased 10% year-over-year. Our optical networking solutions category was $78.2 million or 32% of total revenue. This was higher by 4% year-over-year. Subscriber solutions was $80.4 million or 32% of total revenue, increasing 15% year-over-year. Geographically, non-U.S. revenue accounted for 58% of the total, while U.S. revenue comprised 42%. Additionally, one customer represented more than 10% of our Q1 revenue. Non-GAAP gross margin during the quarter was 42.6%, an increase of 146 basis points sequentially and 193 basis points year-over-year resulting from favorable product and customer mix. Non-GAAP operating expenses in Q1 were $95.5 million compared to $94 million in Q4 2024 and $102.7 million in Q1 2024. This year-over-year reduction of $7.2 million reflects the positive impact of our business efficiency program. For Q1, our non-GAAP operating profit was $10.1 million or 4.1% of revenue, slightly above the high end of our guidance range. This compares to a non-GAAP operating profit of $6 million or 2.5% of revenue in Q4 2024 and an operating loss of $10.7 million in the first quarter of 2024. The year-over-year improvement in operating margin and profitability was driven by higher revenue and gross profit dollars coupled with lower operating expenses and strong discipline in managing our fixed costs due to our increased productivity from last year's business efficiency efforts. On a sequential basis, the increase in operating margin and profitability reflects higher revenue and gross margin translating into greater gross profit dollars. Non-GAAP tax expense in Q1 2025 was $1.7 million or an effective non-GAAP tax rate of 26.3%. We generated non-GAAP net earnings of $2.4 million during Q1 or $0.03 on an earnings per share basis. This compares to a non-GAAP net loss of $1.7 million or a loss of $0.02 per share in Q4 2024 and a net loss of $16.1 million or a loss of $0.20 per share in Q1 2024. Turning to the balance sheet and cash flow statement. In the first quarter, we continued to make meaningful progress in strengthening our financial position. Net working capital improved by $19.1 million quarter-over-quarter to $250.1 million. This improvement was supported by stronger collections and improved inventory management. Trade accounts receivable were $166.5 million at quarter-end, resulting in DSO of 60 days, a notable improvement from 67 days in the prior quarter. Inventory levels declined to $254.1 million at the end of the quarter, a decrease of $7.6 million sequentially. Correspondingly, days inventory outstanding decreased by 9 days to 152 days in Q1. Accounts payable stood at $170.5 million, with DPOs increasing by 2 days sequentially to 74 days. These working capital improvements contributed to an increase in operating cash flow, which came in at $41.6 million, up from $4.6 million in Q4 2024. This increase was driven by lower GAAP net losses, improved collections, and reduced inventory levels. Working capital improved significantly year-over-year, lower by $95.9 million as a result of the benefits of lower inventories, improved collections, and higher payables. We had free cash flow of $22.9 million for Q1 2025, a strong turnaround from negative $10.4 million in Q4 2024. The improvement reflects the strength in operating cash flow and tighter working capital management. At the end of Q1, cash and cash equivalents were $101.3 million, a sequential increase of $23.8 million, representing a significant improvement in our liquidity position. Strengthening our balance sheet remains a key strategic priority in 2025. As previously communicated, we're working to monetize certain non-core assets including corporate real estate. While the sale of our Huntsville campus has taken longer than initially anticipated, discussions with potential buyers have advanced. To be clear, we have firm offers in hand for each of the towers. However, we'll only sign when we believe that shareholder value has been maximized. We will provide a more substantive update once we reach an agreement. In the meantime, we continue to explore and evaluate alternative options to further reinforce our capital position. We remain firmly committed to materially strengthening our financial position over the course of 2025, aiming towards our ultimate goal of achieving a net positive cash position. We are pleased with our strong performance in the first quarter with momentum exceeding historical seasonal trends and have confidence that the industry environment continues to improve. As market conditions stabilize, we are beginning to regain scale in our business, which positions us well for the remainder of the year. Looking ahead, we anticipate additional scale as revenue growth continues. At the same time, we are seeing elevated operating expenses primarily driven by foreign exchange headwinds stemming from a weaker U.S. dollar relative to the euro and British pound. On a constant currency basis, we expect operating expenses to remain relatively consistent with prior quarter levels, reflecting our continued focus on disciplined cost management. Regarding capital allocation, we continue to focus on strengthening our balance sheet. This includes continuing to reduce debt through cash generation and taking decisive steps to streamline our portfolio, notably through the divestiture of non-core assets. These actions align with our long-term strategy to enhance financial flexibility and sharpen our focus on core growth opportunities. Turning now to our outlook for the second quarter. We continue to experience increasing global demand for broadband connectivity and remain encouraged by the underlying industry fundamentals. Regarding tariffs, and as Tom mentioned earlier, while the situation remains fluid, we believe our supply chain strategy places us in a favorable position relative to peers. We are actively evaluating options to minimize the impact of any potential changes on our customers. Our outlook excludes the potential impact of additional future tariffs given the inherent uncertainty surrounding global trade policies, possible disruptions to the U.S. and international economies, and the potential for retaliatory governmental actions. Based on the information we have today, we expect revenue to range between $247.5 million to $262.5 million and a non-GAAP operating margin between 0% and 4%. Once again, additional financial information related to today's call is available on ADTRAN's Investor Relations website.

Your first question comes from Michael Genovese with Rosenblatt Securities. Your line is open.

Great. Thanks. So Tom, it looks like in the quarter, all the growth came from access and aggregation. So I just want to ask, across the three revenue segments, sort of what the outlook is going forward? What will access and aggregation keep up this growth? And what should we expect from subscribers and from optical, specifically this quarter but over the next couple of quarters? Thank you.

Yes, some of that was related to supply issues as we experienced some delays, particularly with subscribers. As a result, we had lower demand waiting to be fulfilled. However, things have improved despite the tariffs. We had a strong quarter in access, which we anticipated. Some of our customers, especially in Europe, tend to purchase early in the year, then their spending decreases before picking up again toward the end of the year. This pattern has emerged over the last few years. For optical, what we observed was mainly seasonal, but the segment is growing. I expect better performance this quarter and anticipate ongoing growth in these areas. Overall, from an order and environmental standpoint, it was a solid quarter.

Okay. And then just a follow-up for me on margins. So I guess when we look at the revenue guidance compared to the first quarter and the operating margin guidance compared to the first quarter, it looks like there's some margin pressure in the second quarter. And it sounds like you're saying that that's on the OpEx side because of the exchange rate and not because of gross margin. I just want to verify that that's a correct read. And then I guess it's hard to predict foreign exchange beyond the quarter, but how do you think OpEx should trend beyond the second quarter?

That's just it. I think you're going to have to project exchange rates. As you know, our core operating on a constant currency basis, our operating expenses would expect to be basically flat through the year, and that hasn't changed a bit. I mean, the movement we saw right around the turn of the quarter here was pretty substantial, not typical. But from a pure operational perspective, we would expect OpEx to be effectively flat.

The next question comes from Brian Kuntz with Needham & Company. Your line is open.

Thanks. Tom, any evidence or inquiries around pull-ins from customers ahead of tariffs that you're hearing about from customers?

Maybe a little, but really not much. Most people seem to be in a similar situation, making it difficult to predict what will happen next. We are not considering a lot of pull-ins; in fact, we are trying to avoid them since we recently dealt with an inventory issue and want to prevent that from happening again. There hasn’t been significant pressure for pull-ins, so it hasn’t come up.

Got it. And then maybe stepping back a little, you've got great exposure in Europe, now. Can you maybe just top-down, help us see what's going on in the macro there as it relates to kind of top five carriers, the BT and DT types? What's going on with those large customers? And then broadly, what's happening in Europe with respect to high-risk Chinese displacements and any other wins you're anticipating ramping up over the balance of the year? Thanks.

The environment has remained positive for a solid year. We faced inventory challenges, but the underlying demand has not shifted. We've seen an increase in success rates in various areas, particularly with some of our largest customers where their conversion rates have improved, leading to a stronger subscriber backlog. Their overall deployment plans remain consistent, with one customer recently expanding their reach by a couple of million homes. We've had significant wins, including a new large Tier 1 customer, and previous customers are still on schedule. We expect to start shipping to some of them around mid-year, with some already in the process of shipping. There is a considerable replacement opportunity as they plan to decommission some Huawei equipment, which is expected to begin soon. We have not lost any momentum; everything is still on track, although the operational processes take time.

Great. And that replacement opportunity, Tom, is in fiber, not optical?

It's in fiber.

Yes. Maybe one more if I could squeeze it in, please. Any changes in your attach rate of selling ONTs versus OLTs and with regards to XGS and kind of modern products, you still have a high attach rate there, and how would you characterize kind of thoughts about that going forward?

I would say that with XGS, the attach rate is likely higher than it was with PON. This is mainly because it's a newer technology that offers better interoperability. Surprisingly, despite industry trends, the attach rate has remained strong. We have secured some Tier 1 clients for our subscriber equipment, whereas historically, Tier 1s have been more selective in their shopping. Smaller carriers usually purchase everything end-to-end, while larger ones tend to look around more. It will be interesting to see how this landscape evolves, as it seems to be shifting towards a preference for complete end-to-end solutions rather than sourcing directly from some Asian vendors. Overall, the attach rate is quite robust.

Great. That's all I've got. Thank you.

Okay.

The next question comes from Christian Schwab with Craig-Hallum. Your line is open.

Great. Thanks for taking my question. I know you guys historically have not put in any hedge instruments regarding currency swings, given the big roughly 9% move in a short period of time. Is that something you guys are considering? Or are you going to evaluate?

The short answer is yes. We've realized the benefit of the downside, and now we're moving the other direction, and it's something that we are exploring.

Great. And then from a business momentum perspective, I know we're excluding new design wins, is there any commentary you can give on further confidence and conviction and strength in Europe versus North America, or are they both hitting on all cylinders?

Good question. Europe is currently experiencing very strong booking rates and is definitely thriving. In contrast, the U.S. market is more unpredictable. The Tier 2s have been performing well and we aim to secure additional business with some of the larger Tier 2s. The Tier 3s have been a bit sluggish, but they seem to be showing signs of improvement. Although we haven't seen significant changes yet, there are indications that things are getting better, with numbers gradually increasing. Over the past 6 to 9 months, there haven't been drastic shifts, but Tier 2s have undoubtedly remained robust.

Great. No other questions. Thank you.

Okay.

The next question comes from Amira Manai with ODDO BHF. Your line is open.

Yes. Hello, can you hear me?

Yes.

Thank you for the presentation. I have actually a few questions. Regarding the increase, could you provide more details of the Group supply chain and whether you have suppliers in China or Asia for certain components?

We have been relocating most of our supply chain out of China for quite some time. If you look back, prior to the merger, the ADTRAN segment had already moved out a long while ago. The advertising side was also transitioning, and we expedited that process. This effort has been ongoing for a couple of years, so we are in a solid position where very little production occurs there now. Most finished goods should be out of China by the middle of this year, so we don't anticipate significant impacts from tariffs. However, regarding raw materials, we all purchase capacitors, resistors, and PC boards. The real question is where the product is ultimately finished. We will face tariffs on some of those materials, but overall, I believe we are in a good position today.

Okay.

I don't know what they're going to be tomorrow. I don't know what the tariffs are going to be tomorrow. But as of today, yes, we're not in a bad place.

Okay. And the Group's performance quarter-over-quarter was mainly driven by Europe, while the U.S. remained relatively stable. What explains the dynamic? And do you foresee continued decline in the U.S. share versus non-U.S. in the coming quarters?

I would say the U.S. wasn't necessarily weak; it was actually quite stable. The difference is that Europe is currently outperforming significantly. From any metric we observe, they are purchasing at a much higher rate. The U.S. isn't performing poorly; it's just that Europe has a few key customers who are significantly boosting those numbers and are currently performing exceptionally well.

Okay. And how would you compare ADTRAN to its main competitors today? I mean, from a financial perspective, do you see stronger growth trends in the market? And from a technological side, how does ADTRAN's offer compare against its peers, particularly in emerging areas like fiber broadband, AI, data centers, etc.? And are there any specific areas where do you believe ADTRAN has a technological advantage today?

Yes. I think that the key to what we do is maybe the focus on where we put our resources. So on the optical side, we very much focus on that mid-network transport kind of a regional size network, and we're very, very good at that. And as that market, we do believe that's a growth market, both from just a carrier perspective as they reach more homes with fiber. And from an enterprise perspective, as people try to find on-ramps into the ICP cloud or that becomes more distributed. And we've seen some signs of that. On the fiber access side, we just fundamentally across the board. Now I'm biased, but we have a better product. We have a kind of a next-generation product, which is very, very scalable. We did a press release maybe last quarter that said we had passed over 8 million homes with British Telecom in an incredibly short period of time. It is very flexible because it is software-based and disaggregated, so you can use it in small locations as well as large locations. And it's just a better product. Subscriber, it's a little more difficult to differentiate yourself. With subscriber, it's all about the software. And you have to keep up with the generational changes in the hardware, but it's really about the software. We launched our Mosaic One product about 2 years ago, and the big piece that we're missing was Intellifi, which is in-home Wi-Fi management, which is a real cornerstone for a lot of our customers. We launched that, I think, earlier last year. Phenomenal success so far. It's still relatively new in the market. I think that piece has yet to shake out. I think competitively, we have a very good product. But we just need some more time in that market. Hopefully, that answers your question.

Okay. Thank you so much. That's all for me.

Okay. All right.

The next question comes from Tim Savageaux with Northland Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Hi, good morning. A couple of questions. But first, I wanted to start with, it really seems like you're starting to see a greater amount of synergy across your product portfolio, particularly between access and optical transport. You've talked about that a couple of times here. Are we right to observe some kind of breakout here or inflection point with regards given the companies have been together for a while now in cross-selling that portfolio? Then I have a follow-up.

Yes, my only concern with Tim’s question is how we define breakout. I noted that we’ve observed a positive response in the Tier 3 market. When we sell them an access product, there's a strong likelihood we can meet their transport needs, and they prefer not to engage with multiple vendors. In the larger, more sophisticated segment, it’s quite competitive. However, last quarter showed promise as we secured a deal with a significant European carrier that we hadn’t collaborated with before. They specifically cited our extensive product line and the operational synergies we offer as key factors in their decision. They appreciated the scale of our company. We saw a similar situation in the U.S. with two large Tier 2 customers now expanding, particularly in our optical sector, which we had previously been excluded from. These examples indicate that we’re starting to gain traction with larger clients, which wasn't the case before. It seems like the market is responding much better now. This could also be linked to inventory levels since many companies were holding onto a lot of optical inventory, not just ours. They couldn’t commit to new vendors until they reduced that inventory, so now that they have, they seem ready to progress.

Great. Appreciate that. And as I ponder large Southern European carriers that you're not already engaged with in some way, which I will continue to do, I'd ask about at this point, how you're seeing the size of that opportunity relative to some of your current big European customers and what sort of timing we should expect in terms of a ramp there?

They're in a hurry, and they're in a hurry on the optical side first. It's hard to predict what you ultimately end up with, but if you think about them in the tens of millions a quarter, that's probably the way to think about them. Once they get rolling with the full portfolio.

That's across optical and access?

Yes. Yes. When I say ten, that's a broad range. So, yes, we definitely got.

At this point, that's the end of our question queue. So I appreciate everybody for joining us today, and we look forward to talking to you next quarter. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.