Grab Holdings Ltd Q2 FY2025 Earnings Call

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us today. My name is Faith, and I will be your conference operator for this session. Welcome to Grab's Second Quarter 2025 Earnings Results Call. I will turn it over to Douglas Eu to start the call.

Good day, everyone, and welcome to Grab's second quarter earnings call. I'm Douglas Eu, Director, Investor Relations and Strategic Finance at Grab. And joining me today are Anthony Tan, Chief Executive Officer; Alex Hungate, President and Chief Operating Officer; and Peter Oey, Chief Financial Officer. During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements about future events, including our future business and financial performance. These statements are based on our current beliefs and expectations. Actual results could differ materially due to a number of risks and uncertainties as described on this earnings call, in the earnings release, and in our Form 20-F and other filings with the SEC. We do not undertake any duty to update any forward-looking statements. We will also be discussing non-IFRS financial measures on this call. These measures are supplemental but do not replace IFRS financial measures. Please refer to the earnings materials for reconciliation of non-IFRS to IFRS financial measures. For more information, please refer to our earnings press release, remarks and supplemental presentation available on our IR website. And with that, I will turn the call over to Anthony to deliver his opening remarks before we open it up for questions.

Thanks, Doug. Grab delivered yet another strong set of results in the second quarter with group MTUs scaling to another all-time high. Meanwhile, on-demand GMV accelerated to 21% year-on-year in U.S. dollars growth or 18% year-on-year growth on a constant currency basis. These top line trends, combined with our continued cost discipline, delivered our 14th consecutive quarter of adjusted EBITDA growth, while trailing 12 months adjusted free cash flow expanded to $229 million. This performance was powered by product and tech-led innovations, which drive our ecosystem flywheel faster and enable us to outserve everyday entrepreneurs across Southeast Asia. Growth continues to be demand-led with on-demand transactions outpacing GMV as we increase our focus on rolling out more affordable services and expanding the addressable market with more price-sensitive users. We also continued to scale up our financial services business prudently with total loan disbursals across GrabFin and our digital banks reaching close to $3 billion on an annualized run rate in the second quarter. At the same time, credit risks remain within our risk appetites. Looking ahead to the second half, Grab remains well positioned with our investment solidifying our resilience in the face of potential macroeconomic uncertainties. As such, we expect to sustain this growth momentum to accelerate on-demand GMV growth rates relative to 2024. We will also maintain discipline on costs to drive profitable growth and free cash flow generation. With that, I now open the call for questions.

Your first question comes from the line of Pang Vittayaamnuaykoon from Goldman Sachs.

Congratulations on a good quarter and strong growth accelerations. Two questions from me. Number one, with the uncertainty in the macro environment and what's happening in Thailand and Indonesia as well as tariffs being implemented and negotiated, how are you thinking about the outlook for Grab and for the countries you operate in? Are you seeing any weakness in consumption right now? That's number one. Number two, in Mobility, number of transactions was 23% with significantly outpacing growth in MTUs. What strategies have you successfully implemented to drive this increase in frequency of usage? How should we anticipate this trend evolving in the future?

Thanks, Pang. Great question. And you're right, it is top of mind, the macro environment, for all of us. Good news, Pang, is we have been leaning into affordability since 2023 with our first initial product launches of affordability like Saver delivery, Saver transport rides, which now have become even more critical with the ongoing uncertainty in the global macro landscape. Nonetheless, we believe we are very well positioned on this front, Pang, because of our product-led investments that continue to solidify our resilience. As you saw from the slides we shared, it drove the ecosystem flywheel faster, and it really positions us as a countercyclical company. Over the past 2 years, we have enhanced affordability. We've enhanced the reliability of our services, and that further deepens user engagement and retention and brings new users to the Grab ecosystem. You saw this with the all-time high of MTUs. You saw this with another quarter of profitable growth and how our growth has reaccelerated to 21% year-on-year. Now moving forward, we'll continue our track record of working very closely with government and regulators to ensure that our partners and users can navigate this period of uncertainty well. For example, in Indonesia, we participated in the pilot phase of Makan Bergizi Gratis, which is the free nutritious meal program, very important for the Indonesian government. As part of this initiative, we delivered nutritious meals to over 1,500 students across 7 elementary schools across many parts in Indonesia, and we collaborated with 9 local MSME merchants in these areas to provide healthier meals, but also fostered greater brand loyalty among our student customer segment. You talked about Thailand as well. In Thailand, we are actively working with the government to support the tourism sector. That's very important, especially during this time for Thailand. We established a private-public tourism task force to contribute to the grand tourism year 2025. And this builds on the existing partnership we've had with the tourism authority and transport authority of Thailand. So looking ahead, we are confident that our strategy of focusing on using partners with a very user- and partner-centric lens for product development will continue to drive sustainable and profitable growth for the business. And this you will continue to see, and that's why we are confident to say that our expectations for on-demand GMV growth in 2025 will accelerate from that of 2024 levels and our adjusted EBITDA in the second half being substantially stronger than that of the first half.

Okay. Thanks, Anthony. Pang, let me take the second part of the question about Mobility. Because we know there's untapped growth potential in Southeast Asia, we did choose to reinvest the benefits of our scale economies to drive broader accessibility and increase platform usage this half. As a result, as you said, we saw this growth of 23% year-on-year in Mobility transactions, which we think is a good return for our Mobility flywheel because it attracts new user cohorts and improves retention. And that, of course, creates more demand for partners so they can improve their utilization and driver earnings. So that supports better reliability and lower prices, and that, in turn, attracts even more users. So it's a great flywheel impact. Overall Mobility MTUs grew 16%, and GMV still continued to grow strongly at 19% year-on-year, 16% constant currency. And of course, in our case, because we are multi-vertical as an ecosystem, the benefits of having new users come in extend to the broader Grab ecosystem as we can cross-sell into Deliveries and Financial Services. So it's a broader benefit for us than it would be for a single vertical player. There's not been much trade-off on profitability. If you look at the numbers, we still grew EBITDA profitability on an absolute dollar basis year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter. And we're still growing our higher-margin high-value rides, which now have reached double digits as a percentage of Mobility GMV this quarter. So that helps us to balance off on a margin basis. So the margin this quarter was 8.7% for Mobility, very close already to our steady-state margin target of 9% plus. So we think this is a very sustainable strategy going forward, and we'll continue to lean into growth.

Our next question comes from Alicia Yap of Citigroup.

Congrats on the solid quarter. Two questions. First, on the delivery business. Just wondering, given the growth of the GrabFood for One, the Shared Saver, all will result in potentially lower blended AOV. Will this volume have lower margins? So if excluding the contribution from the advertising revenue, can you walk us through how you balance between the faster volume driver of the GMV growth versus the lower ASP and the margin trend? Second question, with the launch of your autonomous vehicle shuttles in Singapore recently, how soon do you think a commercial rollout of the AV vehicles in your market across Southeast Asia will take? Any updates also on the partnership front to boost your innovations in this space?

Alicia, this is Alex again. Let me take the question on Deliveries growth and margin. We really believe that ASEAN has still so much upside in digital consumption. So on the Deliveries side, we also decided to invest in product-led growth. Deliveries GMV accelerated to 19% year-on-year on a constant currency basis because of these product-led initiatives. So there was user acquisition from those affordable products that you mentioned. It's been strong. But we've also seen strong growth from what we think of as viral products such as Dine Out, Family Accounts, Group Orders. And those are proving very effective and attracting new users through network effects and shared experiences. So we've got a combination of those viral products and the affordable products bringing in new MTUs. So the GMV from all of these new product initiatives that we announced at GrabX earlier this year is growing 3x faster than the existing products and now accounts in total for 1/3 of Deliveries GMV. In addition, as you well know, we've got GrabUnlimited, which is now the largest paid loyalty program in Southeast Asia, driving almost 5x higher spend and 3x higher order frequency for its members. And we've reached new record highs in paid subscriber count there. So that's also a big impact on the health of our ecosystem. And then finally, I'd just like to mention one of the other products that was launched at GrabX, which is GrabMore, which enables users of food to bundle food and grocery orders into a single transaction. So that's helped us drive higher growth rates for GrabMart this quarter than for our core business, which is another quarter where that's been the impact. So there's lots of upside on GrabMart also. Overall, you mentioned Saver. It's contributed 34% of Deliveries transactions in Q2. That's versus a number of 28% for the prior year for comparison. So it has grown in terms of the number of transactions. However, if you look year-on-year, our segment margins have continued to expand 34 basis points, in fact, from 1.5 last year to 1.8 this quarter. So we are able to still improve margins despite the fact that the affordable products are accounting for a higher percentage of transactions. So what I would say is that margins will move from quarter to quarter. But overall, we still managed to grow absolute EBITDA in this segment by 50% year-on-year. In the medium term, I think we can expect the margins as we scale the business to reduce the delivery cost and improve monetization, particularly through the growth of advertising, which this quarter reached 1.7% GMV penetration. So that's continued to show deeper penetration there. And that will improve with scale in terms of its attractiveness to our advertising clients. So we still believe that we will reach margins of 4% plus in a steady state. So there's no change in our longer-term outlook. Thanks.

Thank you for your question, Alicia. You're correct that autonomous vehicles are at the forefront of our strategy. We are focused on the driverless AV potential in Southeast Asia and believe we are well-positioned to lead this transition in the coming years. Our strategy involves a hybrid fleet that includes both driverless and traditional drivers. We are establishing strong partnerships with AV companies and manufacturers worldwide. Our extensive network in the region enables us to achieve high utilization rates necessary for good unit economics. Additionally, we have a reliable brand known for safety, having built strong relationships with regulators and governments to prioritize community safety, which is crucial to our customers. We've developed our own mapping technology using rich local data that includes extensive driving patterns and urban traffic insights specific to Southeast Asia. This gives us a competitive edge. We have multiple pilot programs underway, including our recent collaboration with a Korean AV manufacturer announced earlier this month. In the Philippines, we are partnering with regulators and the property developer Megaworld to initiate a pilot study on commercial drone delivery. We appreciate the support from A2Z, Megaworld, Kevin, and all the regional regulators as we navigate this process safely and affordably. Our commitment is to provide safe, affordable, and convenient services for our customers. Moving forward, we anticipate announcing new partnerships with global AI and driverless AV companies. We are also looking into new job opportunities that this sector could generate for the communities we serve, as well as more pilot programs to better understand operational conditions for various driverless vehicle services. Our goal is to collaborate continuously with regulators to enhance transport connectivity through innovative technologies. Overall, we are committed to advancing our efforts in the AV space.

Your next question comes from the line of Divya Gangahar from Morgan Stanley.

So my first question is just getting some more details on competition by market and segment. Specifically, if you can comment maybe on the Mobility GMV growth was a bit slower in the second quarter versus the first quarter, and the trip fares were down about 4%. Which market specifically are we seeing some slowdown in? And if you can help us contextualize the trip fares being down 4% and how to think of it going forward? And also Vietnam, specifically, if you have any comments on a new player entering food delivery, if you're seeing any more competition there. So that's my first question. And my second question is just on capital allocation, especially after the raise of the $1.5 billion convertible debt. I mean beyond the obvious M&A that has been on and off for a long time, what are the other segments that this capital can be deployed into? Do you have any updated thoughts on buybacks?

Thank you for your questions. Let me address the first part. We have decided to reinvest the scale economies from our ecosystem back into volume. The 4% drop in Average Order Value in Mobility is a choice we made, not a result of competitive pressure. We believe the returns have been strong, as evidenced by a transaction growth of 23%, which signals a future growth pipeline. We have taken this approach due to the potential in Southeast Asia, where a significant portion of growth is coming from new users and increased activity in Tier 1 cities. Additionally, we are expanding in smaller cities using auto-adaptive technologies we developed, allowing us to operate effectively without needing team members in those locations, providing considerable cost efficiencies. Our strategy focuses on driving top-line growth, and the margin trade-offs are minimal, making it a sustainable approach. There will always be competitors in every market, and their dynamics fluctuate. However, we are approximately three to three and a half times larger than our next biggest competitor in the region, which gives us significant scale advantages. This enables us to invest in AI and other capabilities, resulting in greater efficiencies and savings for consumers compared to smaller competitors. We view this as a sustainable competitive strategy despite occasional surges in competitive activity in specific markets.

Divya, on your capital allocation question, our stance has always been consistent. We take a very prudent approach when it comes to capital allocation. So what do we look at? We always want to create, generate shareholder value on a long-term basis. And if you look at where we've been deploying our capital, it's really fueling the growth of our business through organic growth. And that's going to be high top of the list for us, and you're seeing that playing out in this result, which is fueled by the previous deployment of capital towards all the product innovations and the tech innovation that we've been doing. And that will continue. That will continue to fuel the growth that we're going to see in our business as we move forward. Now with that being said, with M&A, we're always on the lookout. With a strong balance sheet and with the recent capital raise, it does give us that strategic flexibility. And that flexibility is important because M&A comes and goes. So we'll be continuing to scout the market in terms of what's available. But at the same time also, the bar is just so much higher when you compare it to the organic growth that we continue to prioritize over our business today. Now in terms of buyback, we did complete the $500 million buyback. It was done concurrently with the recent convertible note that we raised. There's no plans for new buyback programs. That's something that we'll continue to explore with our Board. But in this quarterly earnings, there's nothing for us to announce. Again, it's all about, for us, prioritizing the right sort of capital management in our business. And when we have a new buyback, we'll definitely share it with all of you.

Your next question comes from the line of Piyush Choudhary from HSBC.

Congrats on a good set of results. Two questions, please. Firstly, on Deliveries segment, what's the outlook of consumer incentive spending as it remains at around 7% of GMV in 2Q? Alex, you talked about the midterm margin outlook, but should we expect the pace of margin expansion in Deliveries segment to be slower going forward due to these new product launches and a focus on driving user engagement? Second question on Mobility. If you can share what's the contribution mix between premium rides and affordable rides. How has that proportion changed over the last year because that dynamics have an impact on the margins?

Thanks, Piyush. So first one on the Deliveries product investment, yes, we'll continue to see opportunities there for further product investment. I can tell you that in terms of the medium term, for the next two quarters of this year for Deliveries, we do expect the margin to improve from the current quarter. So we see sequential improvement in margin for the rest of this year. Hopefully, that's helpful for you all with your models. Ads penetration will obviously contribute to that. Typically, third and fourth quarters are big quarters for advertising. And as you can see from our results, both the self-serve ad channel penetration and the sales force-sold directly to enterprise larger clients, both continue to grow. And so we're very bullish about what Grab has to offer as a retail media network to advertisers given our first-party data and the closed-loop effectiveness that we can show to those advertisers. We are committed to the 4% steady-state margins in the longer run as well. So just confirming all of that. Moving to Mobility, the mix between Saver and Premium. Saver now is about 1/3 of Mobility transactions. So we're continuing to scale that, particularly in the lower-tier cities, but we're still seeing growth in numbers of users, attracting new users into Tier 1 cities and higher frequency, both in Tier 1 and in the smaller cities. So we're consciously focusing on affordability so that we can continue to drive that frequency and growth of new users into the ecosystem. On the Premium end, we're also continuing to grow at the same time. So it's not just the affordability segment which is growing. Premium now is in double digits as a percentage of transactions. And we expect that to continue to grow with the Advance Booking and other features that we've been launching recently. We've done a lot of work with airports around the region so that we can get better access into airports. And therefore, we can balance that margin between the affordable products and the high-value products for the less price-sensitive users. So I can reiterate that we are committed to the 9% steady-state Mobility margins, which, as you're probably aware, would remain industry-leading when you look across the world. Thanks, Piyush.

Your next question comes from the line of Jiong Shao from Barclays.

I have a follow-up regarding autonomous driving, particularly robotaxi. In your prepared remarks and earlier comments, you mentioned the shuttle bus trial in Singapore. Considering what Uber is doing with robotaxi globally and DiDi's efforts in China, can you share your plans for robotaxi in the region? My first question is about regional costs. Peter, could you provide your expectations for regional costs in the second half of this year? I also have a question about GrabMart. Could you discuss your long-term expectations for the total addressable market for GrabMart compared to traditional food delivery? Additionally, can we expect the long-term margins for the Mart business to approach the 4% target?

Thank you, Jiong. I will address the AV topic. The good news is that we are making significant progress. We have a solid understanding of our collaboration with Uber, and we are also observing considerable AV developments in China. We have visited multiple times to see the robotaxis operating on the streets. Although I don't have any announcements to make today regarding partnerships, I can assure you that we are seriously considering how to broaden our pilot programs throughout the region. We are in discussions with several partners and will share more information when we are prepared. This work is being coordinated closely with the government, and you can expect to hear more announcements in the coming months.

Jiong, on your question around regional corporate costs. So what you saw in the second quarter in the increase, which is roughly about a 9.5% Q-on-Q increase in regional corporate cost, is pretty much on tandem with the strong on-demand GMV growth momentum in the second quarter. If you look at the on-demand GMV, it was growing at 21% on actual currency, but our regional corporate costs were growing at 9.5%. So they're actually growing much slower than our top line business growth overall, which is what we're actually driving. We're driving operating leverage in the business. And a lot of the cost that's tied to the increase Q-on-Q is pretty much variable costs. We're looking at more cloud costs, software costs, as you would expect from just the volume of growth that we're driving the transactions in our business. Our transaction was up 23% on a year-over-year basis. Now as we think about moving forward, overall, regional corporate costs will probably be somewhere around that 10% to 12% increase on a year-over-year basis. What's important though is driving operating leverage. And I would expect that somewhere around 100 to about 150 basis points of margin improvement in terms of regional corporate costs as a percentage of revenue, which is really critical as we drive that cost efficiency throughout the business, both on variable as well as on fixed costs. So hopefully, that gives you a bit of color on corporate costs. And I'll turn it over to Alex on Mart.

Thank you, Peter, and thank you, Jiong, for your question. I'm pleased you inquired about GrabMart because this sector has a significantly larger total addressable market than food delivery over the long term. Online grocery shopping is still minimally established in Southeast Asia, with penetration likely under 5%. Moreover, many countries in the region have low modern retail presence, resulting in a subpar user experience. This creates a strong opportunity to advance the digital Mart model. Currently, Mart accounts for less than 10% of our delivery business, yet it is growing faster than food deliveries, at about 1.5 times the growth rate. The monthly active users for Mart are at record highs this quarter, indicating a vibrant and expanding user base that demonstrates the potential of the digital experience. We are adopting a partnership-first strategy. As you know, we own Jaya Grocer and recently acquired Everrise in Malaysia, enabling a seamless online and offline shopping experience, which represents a leading approach to customer engagement in the online-to-offline space. This strategy is proving effective, and we can replicate it through partnerships in other markets. Our aim is to ensure we offer the best possible customer experience, and at Jaya, we are approaching 15% online penetration of gross merchandise volume, which is impressive and illustrates what is achievable. This figure is an industry benchmark and makes us an appealing partner for others looking to reach similar online penetration levels. In terms of margins, currently, Mart's margin contributes to our overall delivery margin expectations, which, as previously mentioned, is over 4% in a stable state. There is also a significant advertising opportunity for Mart. Many fast-moving consumer goods companies in Southeast Asia struggle to gather reliable sales data due to the multi-tiered nature of traditional retail. We can provide them with valuable first-party data. Our digital-first approach for Mart is therefore appealing from an advertising standpoint as well, and we believe we can improve on the current 1.7% penetration rate for food delivery advertising, especially for Mart. Thank you, Jiong.

Your next question is from Mark Mahaney from Evercore ISI.

I just wanted to ask about the advertising revenue. You got that $236 million run rate, I think, in that 45% growth. Just talk about the sustainability of that growth, and then think about or talk about the long-term ceiling or marker for where advertising as a percentage of GMV could go.

Thanks, Mark. The advertising business has doubled several times over the past few years, indicating that we are experiencing rapid growth. There is an exponential effect that I'd like to elaborate on. First, the number of advertisers trying Grab as a retail media network for the first time is steadily increasing. We’re currently at less than 50% of our merchant base that has utilized our services, which means there's still significant potential for us to expand. The return on advertising sales is averaging 8x, demonstrating that it’s an effective product for advertisers that can aid their growth. The retention rate for those who try our services is very high, leading us to benefit from existing advertisers spending more while simultaneously increasing our penetration. Year-over-year, penetration has grown by 42%. Additionally, existing advertisers on the self-serve platform have increased by 31%, showcasing strong opportunities for us. Advertisers prioritize reach, and as we expand, we become more appealing based on a cost-per-point model. Consequently, network pricing tends to rise as we grow, as advertisers ultimately focus on the returns of their investments. This is why we're experiencing such significant growth rates in advertising. Globally, advertising penetration in relation to GMV in various markets can reach much higher levels than our current figures. Some markets have seen penetrations of 2%, 3%, or even 4%, particularly within Mart-type ecosystems. I believe there's a substantial opportunity to boost advertising penetration across our different verticals, including mobility, where we've recently started introducing ads, well beyond our current penetration of 1.7%.

Your next question is from Ranjan Sharma at JPMorgan.

My first question is about Deliveries and the margins. If I exclude ad revenues, it seems that the delivery EBITDA without ads is somewhat weaker. I understand you're making significant growth investments and experiencing substantial increases in monthly transacting users and new services. However, is there a point at which we should expect the underlying Deliveries EBITDA without ads to begin improving? Or do you anticipate that the focus in the near and midterm will continue to be on business growth rather than fully monetizing it? Also, regarding fintech, there has been significant growth in the loan portfolio. Could you clarify where these loans are being made?

Thanks, Ranjan. Yes, let me address both questions. In terms of Deliveries, we see significant potential for growth and increased volume in Southeast Asia in the medium term. Our current strategy, which focuses on growth and reinvesting the profits generated from our scale, is sustainable. We have not made major compromises on margin and view advertising growth as integrated with the overall margins of our business; they present a combined opportunity. As I mentioned in response to Mark's earlier question, the returns for advertisers are crucial. As we scale up, their returns improve, which enhances the value of our advertising inventory. Thus, scale is an essential factor in driving value for advertisers within the Deliveries segment, including Mart, and we don’t separate it from the Deliveries margin. We plan to maintain this strategy since it has accelerated our Deliveries growth, especially in Southeast Asia, which we believe has plenty of untapped potential that we want to further explore. Regarding your second question on Financial Services, this is the first time we are providing an outlook on the size of our loan book, which I hope is helpful. By the end of the year, we anticipate reaching $1 billion, as we're currently around $700 million at the end of Q2. We are confident in exceeding $1 billion due to our strong product lineup from GrabFin, our fintech arm, and our digital banks. For the first time, personal lending products are available across all three banks, and we offer Buy Now, Pay Later options in several markets through GrabFin. Additionally, we have introduced supply chain financing through our acquisition of the Validus business in Singapore, now branded GXS Capital through GXS Bank. This allows us to finance SMEs with a well-managed risk profile based on the risk of larger corporate customers, aligning well with our ecosystem. We'll expand this capability beyond Singapore in the region. When we look at the numbers, the $1 billion goal signifies a notable acceleration, with a projected growth rate of 41% in the second half compared to 32% in the first half, driven by our product lineup and our robust data advantage for underwriting and distribution. Our credit models are showing strong performance, and the Gini coefficients we are achieving are significantly better than when we started. As we incorporate more data from our ecosystem, we are enhancing our capabilities. I want to reiterate our breakeven targets: we expect to reach breakeven for Financial Services overall in the second half of 2026 and for the three banks by the fourth quarter of 2026. Our overall approach remains one of high growth; this is still the fastest-growing segment we have while balancing risk management with scaling our operations.

Ranjan, also just to add on the Deliveries margin. If you look at some of the countries that we operate in today, a majority of those countries are already in the zip code of 4% to 5% Deliveries margin, and it's been very consistent throughout many quarters now. So we have some work to do in terms of closing the gap on some of the other countries, which we're very focused on. Also at the same time, we're balancing the underpenetration of Deliveries, which Alex spoke about, which we feel that we're balancing with also fueling that growth on the top line as we bring new users into the platform. And also with advertising scaling up that Alex also spoke about, we feel that we're very confident we can get to a margin improvement in Deliveries, but also we're not going to sacrifice the growth that we're seeing at the same time also. It's a balancing act. We've got some countries already north of 4%, but we're also balancing us overall as an ecosystem, as a business, a deliveries business. We also want to make sure we're also fueling that 20% growth rate that we're seeing across Deliveries. All right. So we're going to wrap up the call here. So thank you very much, everyone, for dialing in. Anthony, Alex and I really want to express our appreciation to all our drivers and to all our merchant partners and all our customers and users and shareholders for really just continuing to trust in Grab. Thank you also to the Grab team for a great quarter and looking forward to delivering a strong second half. Together with our IR team, Doug, Ken and I will be on the road over the next few weeks. We'll be attending various IR conferences across the U.S., Hong Kong and Singapore in the coming weeks. So if you wish to meet up, please reach out to any of us here. We would love to see you in person and catch up then. Thank you for this morning. And for those dialing in, in a different time zone, we appreciate it, and we'll talk over the next few weeks. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you. This concludes Grab's Second Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.