Morgan Stanley India Investment Fund, Inc. (IIF) September 2026 Conference Transcript

Next up, I'm very pleased to have Morgan Stanley from the company, Dan Sifkowitz, co-president. He's directly responsible for the Institutional Securities Group, but serves on the operating management committee and can really talk about the firm as good as anyone. Before we begin, I'll be remiss because Lazzy will yell at me. This discussion may include forward-looking statements which reflect Morgan Stanley management's current estimates and subject to risk and uncertainties that could cause actual results of different material. Morgan Stanley does not undertake to update the forward-looking statements. This discussion, which is copyrighted by Morgan Stanley, may not be duplicated or reproduced without their consent, is not an offer to buy any security. Did that good? Yeah, maybe we could start, you know, big picture on the current environment. You know, you've been very focused on, you know, building the business for the long haul and solving for higher highs and higher lows. you know investors are debating you know where we are across a number of important cycles you know capital markets sponsor activity ai related investments broader economic growth just how are you calibrating you know where you are today and how the firm and and how is that shaping you know the way you position the firm oh first of all thank you it's a great conference it's a great time to have the conference and you and venkat and all the rest we're we're really great partners with you.

I certainly felt going into and out of the second quarter, there was a pretty big debate around peak earnings, I think especially around the more capital markets oriented companies. And so we feel strongly that there are a number of big thematics around the market, which I'll touch on, which all lead us to believe that 26, as an example is not peak earnings at Morgan Stanley. You know, last four quarters were almost $80 billion in revenue. I think that puts us, at least in our TAM, you know, what we do, the largest financial advice firm in the world, and sort of across all of our client segments, we see TAM growth and market share growth in every single one. And so in that context, you know, we're not at peak. But I think, let me talk a little bit about thematics. I'd say the first one is not really a thematic. It's something I'm passionate about. I've talked to you about it in the past. But, and I ran strategy, I ran MSIN, then I ran capital markets before this. When we look around the world of financial services, we still think the number one growth opportunity in financial services at scale from here is Morgan Stanley Wealth Management. So even though they're number one, the path forward from here is pretty extraordinary. And I think that's driven by at the client level. If we start at the client value level, we think we're the best in the world at delivering value to the client. At the same time, we've gone from two and a half million households to over 20 million households. And so via the workplace, via the client acquisition powerhouse that no one has. And so we not only have the best value once we get the client, our ability has really been transformed. And so, you know, that $2.5 million was 2019 transformed so that we can go grab the clients and we can service them both digitally all the way to the advisor and everything in between. And we still feel, with the help of technology, with the help of the brand, with the help of the investment bank and all that goes with it, and I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about SpaceX and a few of these things, that we're still in the early innings of monetizing that growth, that move from 2.5 to 20, but also the events of the summer and some of the IPO activity, we're definitely not focused on 20. We're focused on much higher in terms of relationships in that context. And what I would say is to win takes immense focus. So the entirety of the leadership team, and my day job is running ISG, and I guess Andy and I, we have night jobs running strategy, but every day the leadership team is focused on winning big and wealth management. So that's a comment on our own strategic positioning and where we are in the innings of monetization. I think the second one, I'm sure we'll get into more detail, and others will talk about it in other sessions today, we're still of a view that we're relatively early in the M&A capital markets cycle. So in 22, 23, even parts of 24, you had activity in M&A and IPOs way off the GDP curve. So you have a lot of pent-up demand, pent-up demand at the corporate level, pent-up demand at the private equity level. and I'll go into some more detail I'm sure in a second, but you've got confidence at the boardroom and you've got private equity with a monetization backlog that's big and a dry platter that's big and then in a market context and we certainly are from a risk perspective and a vice perspective we're super focused on macro, super focused on $100 oil, 5% tenure, $40 billion of debt, a war. But at the reality of getting deals done, credit is in really good shape. Spreads are tight. Equities are close to highs. We are way off that GDP curve. And there is a little bit of call to action around the regulatory environment, which, you know, around M&A, that could change. So we think we're early to mid-innings on M&A and IPOs. And I think what's hopefully really evident, but I hope it's even more evident by the time I'm done in 34 minutes and five seconds, is that that M&A and IPO cycle cascades down through all of Morgan Stanley. And I think the third one that I think is big and topical is, and we'll talk, I think, more about it, is AI. We still think we're in relatively early to mid-innings around the AI financing element, which is really just a bridging of the timetable until, in essence, the build is build ahead of all of the revenue, but not the revenue path, and there is a lot of equity, and there's a lot of credit finance, And we're in the middle of that with really high share. But I think, again, that, and Ted answered it on the earnings call, we still think we're all so early in middle innings. And you've seen just enormous announcements, NVIDIA, Broadcom, Google, and then the model players out there in that perspective. So I think in those three thematics that are pretty important, I would say, early to middle. And none of them feel really late. And in that context, we don't think we're at peak.

Okay, a lot in there that I want to try to unpack. Just maybe first, can we dive a little deeper into the investment banking landscape? You talked about M&As and IPO activity. And maybe just talk about investment banking pipelines, what you're hearing from strategic and sponsor clients.

Yeah, I'm going to use some anecdotes to try to make it feel a little alive here. But at the macro sort of statistics level, very, very robust pipelines. They're very robust across product. They're driven by the dynamics I mentioned. Credit is in pretty good shape. GDP growth, 6.7% nominal GDP growth in the United States in the quarter. Real matters, but if you're a corporate, you've got to keep up with nominal. equity near highs, all of those combine to make the product set at very, very strong investment banking. We were talking about this a few minutes ago. So in that construct, we remain very constructive around the investment banking environment. And it can't all get done this quarter. It can't all get done in the fourth quarter. This is an 18 to 24-month cycle. B is especially, well, A, you go public, and then you've got most companies, if they're private equity-owned or if they're venture-owned, there's a cascade of secondaries or block trades or trading lock-up releases that continue. Those are all revenue events for us. But I would say most discreetly is M&A, which is if your competitor does an M&A deal, then you're going to react. And so we saw it at Morgan Stanley. When we were doing M&A, others would react to us. We would react to them. But extend that through the entirety of the economy. When someone does something strategic, it causes every boardroom in the ecosystem of that sector to think about strategic activity, and then it happens. And then also when you buy something, the board often will challenge you to, well, what should you get rid of? And so you've got to carry on around M&A and that activity in the context of there being a period where we're way off the trend line, where, again, as we've talked about, you know, 18, 24 months, it may even be longer. I just – my lens – somewhere I had to cut off the lens as an example. Let me give you a little anecdote also on private equity because it is not easy around these monetizations, and so you can have ups and downs. So we announced, I think it was last week, Consolidation Precision Products. This is a company that Warbur Pincus bought in 2011 for under a billion dollars. They sold it last week, the GE Aerospace, for $12.5 billion. They moved it from fund to fund. They did seven acquisitions. They recapped it with Berkshire Partners. in the midst of COVID, the price at this price, unthinkable. By the way, GE Aerospace is up 6x in the last five years. So again, the job of execution there, they had confidence. These guys were real operators on the asset. They had patience, 15 years of patience. And then the trade finally comes together at that moment. When I was running capital markets to a degree, I thought, oh, PE is all around the buy and the sell. Clearly, if there's 15 years in the middle, there's a lot more than the buy and the sell. We've got this incredible mid-cap US PE business inside of MSIM run by a gentleman named Aaron Sack, and they taught me, they showed me what happens in between. They buy companies from entrepreneurs and families, and it's pretty remarkable what some of these companies can do, But it's not a straight path. And, in fact, it's not a straight path. We're seeing that, actually, in MSIM. On another fund, we have an infrastructure fund, which has a really strong track record. But they've got two European assets. The fund has accrued a lot of unrealized carry. But those assets aren't doing as well. And so you have a couple hundred million dollars of unrealized carry reversal, which, you know, is about a nickel of EPS, because it's just not straightforward. So PE monetization. But I come back to my macro comment. If credit is pretty good and equity prices are there and corporate confidence is pretty high and there is a lot of dry powder in PE, you know, it may take a couple of years here to clear some of the backlog, but it's there. And by our count, there are 1,500 private equity companies worth more than a billion dollars in the U.S. And the PE partner doesn't get paid until they or most of the fund gets monetized. So there will be incentives over time. There will be, maybe not as extreme, the Warburg examples in that context. But we're up to over 100 private equity sell-side mandates in our pipeline. And so that is at a record level. And so this stuff will come. It just takes time, and you're going to have ups and downs, like I mentioned.

Maybe shifting gears to markets. Second quarter equity results were exceptional. You know, a big debate in terms of investors I talk to, you know, whether it's cyclical, structural, particularly what's going on in Asia. Maybe just talk about the durability of the markets, wallet broadly, and just maybe what opportunities you see. And then also just where are you investing and where do you see wallet share opportunities across equities and FIC?

Yeah, again, our focus certainly on the investment side around, and we'll talk, I'm sure, at some point around capital, is just to be disciplined and steady investing in the businesses. What I would say, again, on markets, and this one you get challenged even more, but I was getting challenged at a – well, I was going to say a competitor. At the Morgan Stanley Financials Conference in Europe in the spring of 25, are we at peak markets, as an example? Even today, and I'll get to it, we don't think 26 is peak markets, And I'll get into some of the dynamics. What I will say, we certainly don't manage to and invest long term to a single quarter. 22nd quarter of this year was pretty exceptional in markets. And I think it's safe to say 3Q is no 2Q. But if you think about the long-term dynamics, which we think are very much intact, in equities, you still have a lot of equitization still in front of us. And so, yes, Asia is doing really well, but the Japanese market came from almost nowhere five or six years ago. Korea is back. Taiwan is embedded in the technology trade. Greater China is motivated around economic growth. International investors want to be a participant to that. India will have its day and not have its day and back to having its day. And that's before we get to sort of equitization in some other parts of the market. There's policy potential in both Mexico and Brazil, where we have high market share and high margin for equities to get rejuvenated. Middle East war goes away, and we're back on a train in the Middle East around equities. And again, what we do is we bring the same technology, the same capabilities, the same research quality into all of these markets to everybody in this room. It's a little weird to talk to all of my clients out here in the room, but that's the mantra. And then we can allocate our resources to the highest sort of ROI to the client and the highest ROI to us. and we can do it in cash form, we can do it in derivative form, in the future we'll do it in tokenization form as an example. All those are intact, and I'll just bring up one sort of Japan round two possibility, but we hired the finance minister of Germany to run Germany for us. The German capital market is dramatically smaller than it should be against the economy. That's an optionality around equitization in front of us. In fixed income, we're big bulls. I think we've talked about it here before, around credit asset managers, some of them, the credit side are represented in this room. Credit asset managers are fueling the economy around the world, whether that's energy transition, whether that's AI, whether that's private equity. And if they're fueling it, they want to work with Morgan Stanley. We help originate those assets. We help finance those assets. We help raise the LP money for those assets. So we think that's a secular trend. risk management and fixed income. We went from zero to five on inflation. We've gone from zero to five on rates. We've got commodities going all over the place. We've got currencies going all over the place. So our corporate clients, our private equity clients, our private credit clients, they all want to hedge. And we want to do more of that business. And we restructure the bank in that. And I use the word bank in two ways. We now can put that derivative, put that risk management business inside the bank as an element. And what I would say is we've got balance sheet and capital in front of us to go invest in these businesses, in ISG, IBD, the markets businesses, wealth management lending. We've got well over $400 billion of deposits, but we also have capital capacity. But as you would expect, we're going to be steady and disciplined, not do it all in one quarter, but it is in front of us. And so when we think about a little bit of TAM in both equities and fixed income and a little bit of share in fixed income equities, along with the cycle element, admittedly, in investment banking, we feel pretty good about the next couple of years in the ISG business. Again, 3Q is no 2Q, and the volume and the vol is a little down in 3Q, certainly, but long-term we feel pretty good about these businesses. And I think ROE in ISG is really in mid-20s, ROE. So we're able to deploy a pretty good return versus our cost of capital.

Makes sense. Before we move on to wealth management, maybe just one question that comes up a lot with investors, and, you know, I know Ted addressed it on the second quarter earnings call, just around, you know, CapEx or AI-related CapEx spend. Just how are you thinking through sizing and the risk of the AI financing opportunity? Just how does Morgan Stanley see AI opportunities for the business overall?

I mean, part of it is we step back and watch what we're doing. We step back and we listen to what our clients are doing around deployment. And so we're very fortunate around this ecosystem. We had Sam Altman come to our board in May of 22 before ChatGPT was released. We're really good strategic partners with Anthropic, XAI, Gemini, Microsoft. So we get the best of. They are helping us to deploy right now in some size, you know, a size dramatically higher than we would have anticipated a year ago. And the ROI on that is pretty extraordinary. And so when we think about it, I'll break it into groups. In research, broadly defined, that could be the research team that helps support you to come with an initiation or a recommendation. That's the research and investment banking. That's the research and investment management. That's the research that sits at the desktop of every sort of front-line client-driven person. The productivity that we're getting out of that is pretty extraordinary. In research alone, a number of companies covered, rankings from the buy side, rankings as an example, all going up. But the sort of cost for that not going up in the same context. Financial advisors, too. We've gone from $2.5 million to $20 million. We're now at $8-plus trillion of wealth management, and the advisor count is not growing anywhere near those levels, so we're getting ROI off that. We started on an AI path in wealth management productivity in late 2022 off of that board session. So we're getting good ROI there at the research level. We're getting ROI. and we're putting capital to work and we'll get ROI longer term in cyber. We're getting it in customer service. Going from 2.5 million households to 20 million households, we're going to be a physical customer service monster. And AI already has allowed us to get that really efficient and the ability to deliver customer service back to that instance. And then we've got a lot of processing at Morgan Stanley. And some of it bleeds into research, but operations, accounting, legal, software development, all of that is going to create a system which we're already seeing, which is the revenue per employee at Morgan Stanley. The ROI is pretty dramatic. And so when you take that and you then take some of what we're seeing, what we're hearing from some of our clients in the asset management business, What we're hearing from some of our corporate clients, there is an immense demand build. So we're big TAM believers on the AI just from our own bottoms-up research, and it's got to get built out. And that CapEx is still early, and it's pretty clear that the credit markets are going to innovate around that. We've been at the center of that. We've got really high market share. The equity markets will support it. You know, Google or Alphabet and SpaceX raise circa over $150 billion of equity. I think the entirety of the equity spend in AI infrastructure will clearly, by the cycle is over, get to well over a trillion dollars of equity, not just credit, as an example. And we're very fortunate because, you know, we got lucky. I sat in the same spot in our conference in March. and I interviewed Jensen, and I presented him a tombstone from the original deal. Again, NVIDIA, $47 million IPO for Morgan Stanley, mind-boggling in that context. But we're big believers that compute equals intelligence, and then intelligence can drive both revenue and expense base in that respect. And we're in the boardroom with every chip player, NVIDIA, Broadcom, Google, AMD, et cetera, all the hyperscalers, all the LLMs, a whole number of the neoclads that are being generated, but they're all reacting to demand from enterprises and consumers around the world. And that's the other thing that's incredible, is that the tools that we're using at Morgan Stanley to drive that ROI, some of those same tools can be used in emerging market countries where they don't even have landline telephones. It's in the hand of that. That's very powerful. You have a lot of safety and governance and competition and open source. All of that is going to require compute, and we're in the middle of that ecosystem, which is interesting.

Maybe turn to wealth management. Last year on this stage, you called Morgan Stanley Wealth Management the number one growth opportunity in all financial services. I did it today, too. um you know workplace has gotten a lot of attention um given stock plan represented just over half of record 2q nma um and there's still a pretty big pipeline of large ipos to come let me just talk to you know how workplace fits into the wealth management growth engine what you've learned over the past several years in retaining and deepening those relationships yeah again just to put the context of numbers um 60 trillion dollar u.s wealth management TAM which we think is going to a hundred trillion you know there and so this is a really big market if you do that math we're low double-digit market share yet

we think we got the best acquisition engine we think we got the best service we got the ability to deliver all of that be from digitally advisor so we do think there's a big market share place but workplace is an incredible powerhouse in that context. And I guess I'm going to use SpaceX a little bit as an example. We talked about it a bit on the call, and Jed and Andy have talked about it since. But to a degree, the old model is the value that we could provide to a corporate. And it could be an IPO, which I'm going to focus on more, but it also could be existing corporates in their balance sheet, in their M&A views, their capital markets views. But now we are a talent advisor. And especially in the growth ecosystem, talent is critical. So we've been engaged, as an example, with SpaceX for several years around how to design the stock plan for their employees, how to educate those employees around financial education, how to get them advice, how to get them over time liquidity in various forms, and both pre-IPO, right before the IPO, after the IPO. And so we're a partner around value to the leadership of that company in one of their most important assets, which is their talent. And so what you saw in the quarter is, and we've got a reason to be there. The reason to be there is twofold. We're running the stock plan. And again, this is on the back of Solium Acquisition, E-Trade Acquisition, and Carta Partnership. We have a right to be there in that context, but we also have the right to be there because we're the number one advisor firm, so we have advisors on the back half. And so you saw that in the NNA discussion in the second quarter, but what's really promising is the flow of capital out of the SpaceX complex in this quarter is still really, really strong. That's at the notional dollar amount, but also the flow among the employee base to advisors keeps going up, and even in this quarter. So it wasn't finished at that point. And then when we look out around the pipeline, and some of this is around demographics, you know, ex-bounders, the demographics in our pipeline over the next, you know, 18 to 24 months, those opportunities are great to be multiples of the SpaceX. So this is not a one-time thing. And again, I think I'll make this personal for a second, But, you know, for example, my daughter's friend, she's literally a rocket scientist. She's working so hard because having been to Starbase and to Hawthorne and some of these other companies, the employee base here is running all out. So then they get hit with wealth they couldn't even imagine a couple of years ago. It's complex. And so not only do they want Morgan Stanley to help them, what we're finding is at a younger age than we would have anticipated, they wanted an advisor to help them because they're busy running hard because Elon and team, you know, this is really intense work. At high stakes, obviously, she's launching rockets into space and all the rest. So this is real value. And if we can be a partner, and, again, we can be a partner not just at SpaceX and all these IPOs, but we could also be partner at big aerospace and defense companies who have to compete for the talent with some of these companies. I think that is part of what we're seeing there. So, you know, the value equation for Morgan Stanley, you know, we were extremely proud to be one of the two lead book runners on the IPO. We're, you know, we're a big equity trading firm. To be the sole stabilization, really proud. But our relationship around the employee base is back a couple of years and is forward many, many decades with a company like this. Proving that out in the instance of an IPO, which is pretty intense, where decisions need to be made, and it's all becoming real to the employee base, proved the power of workplace, and there's a lot of pipeline behind that in that context.

Maybe we should spend some time on just private markets becoming increasingly important and focus across the industry, whether it's private credit, secondaries, infrastructure, bringing alternative investments to wealth clients. How does Morgan Stanley differentiate itself in this area, and where do you see the largest opportunities over the next three to five years?

Well, we're really big. I mean, if you think about it, we're a half a trillion of private market assets in Morgan Stanley. That's roughly split a half in wealth management and half in asset management. I think in the wealth management side, it makes us maybe one of the largest LPs in the world in the private markets at $200 and a quarter of a trillion dollars. We think the allocations over time, and we're going to be steady in discipline, will grow. And if our assets grow, which I don't want to give guidance, but our assets are going to grow, we're going to become ever, ever more important. And then in MSIM, we're at about a quarter trillion dollars. So we're big. And then certainly were big in the ISG business. I mentioned, you know, my example at the beginning was a Werber-Pincus sell side. I mentioned 100 sells. The largest IPO in the market for private equity ever happened was a company called Medline. We led that deal as well. And so if you think about it across ISG and in wealth and in IM, it's a huge part of business. What I would say is integrated firm, which was on, I should have said this earlier, Mandel, Crawley is going to kill me, but SpaceX is the example of integrated firm. But the other element around integrated firm is the private market ecosystem. And so if you think about credit as an example, we're going to help raise the assets for some of this investment-grade credit that everybody's talking about, AI. We're going to help finance it. We're going to source those assets. I'm a believer, like one of the other probably presenters, Apollo, that there's going to be a lot of gray area. Some of it's going to trade, so we're going to trade it in that context. We're also going to do the stock plan for those companies, both their portfolio companies as well as their parent companies, and we're going to go after the assets and the wealth of the principles. And so, you know, private markets in one form or another are quite important to us. It's a secular growth area versus sort of long only, let's say, asset management. But I would say I would distinguish on my credit point earlier, private or public, we don't really care. To a degree, we're agnostic both as a business matter but also as an advice matter back to the corporate. We're just going to go out and find the best cost of capital and the best alpha manager or solutions manager and provide that solution either to our corporate or private equity client who needs to borrow or to our wealth management client who wants to invest alongside, and we just like the place we are. We're pretty big, and we do it everywhere. I mean, I guess that's one of the differentiated arms. We've got it in wealth. We've got it in asset management. We've got it in the fixed income business around financing and innovation on securitizations. We've got it in the investment banking business in M&As and IPOs. And there is not many people who can do all of that with the balance that we have. And we're quite clear-eyed and a little agnostic and open architecture. And I think that's pretty cool. interesting maybe shift gears to capital the second quarter earnings call Ted mentioned there was a lot of demand for capital both within and outside the firm how do you see opportunities for Morgan Stanley to deploy capital across ISG again we're always extremely conscious of the macro I mentioned again And whether that's fiscal U.S., that's oil, all the rest, recession rest, we're quite – I wouldn't use the word conservative, but we're very focused, disciplined, and steady around the capital allocation. But what that has enabled us to do is in an environment where we're in excess demand for our services. And so in ISG, across the board, whether in fiction, I wish I understood better my romance languages. It's okay. Across all of our businesses right now, the demand for our content, the demand for our innovation, the demand in particular for our origination in both credit and in equities, the demand for our structuring around either securitization and derivatives and the demand for the capital and balance sheet that in some cases goes with that, we're in excess demand. And it's a great place to be. And because we're global and because we're multi-asset, because we're agnostic, public and private, we get to look around that client set. We get to look around the world, get to look around the products, and allocate balance sheet and capital incrementally to high ROE. And because we are in a position of strength, but at the same time being disciplined, we've got a path forward over the next, let's say, 18 or 24 months to steadily, at really high ROEs, continue to deploy. And again, it's in equities in various elements. It's in fixed income in various elements. It's in supporting the M&A finance business. It's around wealth management lending to some of that liquidity in some of these companies and to some of these employees at really good ROE levels without preventing us from being a really great dividend grower. So we've also got the capital to do that, and that's first and foremost. And to be ready if there's opportunities or opportunistic opportunities, I would distinguish between the both, to add on capabilities around our core business. We do really love the core business. And again, if I come back to that beginning, we think we've got TAM growth, We think we've got market share growth, and we like the box right now that we're in, but you saw it around private markets. We bought equities in. You're seeing it in some of the things that we're doing mostly organically around digital assets. You're seeing it at the income statement level around adding some investment bankers in the United States. You're seeing it around deployment of AI and we get a return right away. So all of that sort of capital strength that we talk about is allowing us to be really careful, but to deploy in the client businesses around the sort of framework of the business dynamics that we have today.

We've got about three minutes remaining. I mean, Dan, you gave us a very kind of constructive outlook for the next, call it two years, across all three of your integrated businesses. Now, if there's one or two things when we sit down two years from now that kind of derail this kind of thesis, what do you think it would be?

Well, again, what we're seeing right now is a little volume lower and a little volatility lower because I think people are re-underwriting, as I would think is appropriate, re-underwriting where is that CapEx question around AI, who are winners and losers. I think there's a little fiscal battle going on, probably around the world. There's a war assessment that's going on. There's a political assessment going on. I think all of those create some aggregation where you just need to be careful. and in that carefulness, could you have elements where something tips over to recession? Because recession is the real thing that can both drag down activity for an extended period of time and it probably doesn't cancel activity, but it could elongate activity not measured in quarters, but measured in years. And so we're always keeping an eye out there, but I said this internally, I think I said it externally, you know, our number one focus is complacency, right, we are doing really well, but we do not want to be complacent, so we don't want to be complacent on risk, we don't want to be complacent on capital allocation, we don't want to be complacent around our talent, and we're helping SpaceX and others with their talent, we got to also worry about our own talent, we don't want to be complacent around technology, and the deployment of that, both the safety of that, cyber, et cetera, but also are we keeping up and we have our eyes open? Are we trying to be aware of what's going on around us? And we have to be, like, intense around complacency around our clients because back to the environment, the next 18 or 24 months we think is going to be pretty busy, but busy is not good enough at Morgan Stanley right now. Everybody in the elevators, when I ask them, how are you doing? Oh, I'm so busy. Yeah, but are you productive? Are you going to the right opportunity? Because in this industry, the next 18, 24 minutes, there's going to be a lot of busy. And we're focused on where can we drive out complacency in all the things I mentioned. That's a big, big focus for us. On that note, please join me in thanking Dan for his time today. Thank you.