BANCO BILBAO VIZCAYA ARGENTARIA SOCIEDAD ANONIMA (BVA) September 2026 Conference Transcript

All right.

Thanks, everyone, for joining this session. Thank you so much. So I understand you are having the Spanish banks one after another.

I was going to say from one Spanish bank to another, or I could have said from one global bank to another.

One global bank to another also, yes. It's a bank that we respect a lot, so it's great to be following.

Well, there's a lot of overlap, of course. But obviously, I'm very pleased, and thank you, Onur, for joining us, Onur Genk, Group CEO of BVA. I think we can get started, if you agree. And maybe a good way to start is to look at sort of overall the outlook for the group. You've delivered a return on tangible equity of 22% in the first half of the year. That's broadening in line and consistent with your ambition to average around 22% over the plan period, 25 to 2028. At the same time, BVA has consistently stood out in terms of better growth among European banks. And my question is against this backdrop, how sustainable do you think the combination of sort of profitability, growth and be able to sort of distribute the distribution, the show of the distribution that you're committed to distribute?

How sustainable is it and also how sustainable the distribution or the linkage with the distribution? That's the question. Antonio, as always, thank you so much for hosting us, for hosting me. And thank you also for pointing out to the growth dimension. Because it is true that our return on tangible equity in the first half of the year is now 22.2%. The decimals are even important for us, every penny counts as I say in the bank. So the profitability has been at the forefront and people were talking about it, writing about it, that we are among the largest European banks, we are the most profitable. but the growth dimension in my humble view is less noticed or less taken into account and i do think it's a very important number and you you have given the number but let me repeat that once again so we have grown our lending book 62 percent uh since the end of covet since the beginning of 2021 62 and the average of the 15 largest european banks excluding us is 13 13 versus 62 i do think I think there's a meaningful difference in there as well. So our growth profile is also very noteworthy, in my view, beyond the profitability. So in short, the question of sustainability. Is this sustainable at these levels? Our perspective is yes, and the clear yes. For a few reasons, and some of you who follow us really closely, we quote a few factors is that in our view, they are hard to replicate assets or capabilities that is leading us to this conviction that we will continue sustainably on these levels. What are those? Number one, we are a diversified bank, but we typically operate in low-leverage countries, which is very important. It's like a household. It's like a company. If you have over-leverage, you face some issues if you take more debt on. And in our case, we are in many countries, but when you look into the leverage in those respective countries, they are very low. Mexico is one of the least leveraged countries globally. Even in the emerging countries' landscape, it's very low. 35% banking debt over GDP is one of the lowest that you can find out there in the emerging markets landscape. Spain, it's one of the least leveraged now after 15 years of deleveraging within Europe. So, low-leverage countries, number one. Number two, wherever we are, we are either number one, number two, or number three. I mean, we don't really care about being number one or number two, but we have scale. We have leading enterprises wherever we are. And in our business, mainly a retail banking, commercial banking business, scale really matters. And what really matters in our view still at the moment is local scale. And being large wherever you are, having the leading enterprises in wherever you are, makes a huge difference. Being number one or number six, in my humble view, there's a huge difference between the two. That's the second factor that we have. Low leverage, diversified bank, leading enterprises wherever we are. And on top of that, I would add two things that we have been working on really hard in the last 10 years. One is this topic of embracing technology, embracing innovation, embracing digitalization, which is, in our view, is a bit differential. Everyone does it, but we do believe it's a bit differential. It is proven by our numbers in terms of customer acquisition and what percent of our new customers come from pure digital channels. Very different than the rest of the industry. And number four, very basic concept, easier said than done, but we do think our discipline on capital is also very good. At macro decisions, I think we have proven this in our M&A decisions, especially in our sales decisions. We sold Chile, we sold Paraguay, we are now selling Romania, where we have subscale franchises. So we are capital-oriented in our macro decisions and also in micro decisions. Every single euro of capital deployed in lending to clients, marginally speaking, that additional euro that you put into a client, it has to be profitable. And that discipline is a mantra in our bank, and we have also done really well on this one. Given these four topics, I will repeat, diversified, low leverage, leading enterprises, wherever we are. Huge focus on technology and innovation and digitalization, and now AI. And then this capital discipline, very basic concept. When you sum them up, our conviction is that we will continue to deliver the best profitability in the European banking sector, and then the best growth in the European banking sector. One final thing that you said in terms of sustainability, how do the sustainability of growth versus shareholder distribution, I'm not sure whether you implied it, but some people tell us that there is a clear trade-off between the two. We don't agree. For a long-term investor, we do think, again, as long as you maintain the condition that marginally speaking, every marginal euro of capital that you put into deployment, that you put into your launch, as long as that marginal euro is productive and capital productive, profitable, there is no conflict. It actually creates a flywheel. You grow, it's profitable, you create more capital from this above your cost of equity, and then with that additional capital, you compensate your shareholders. We were paying 31 euro cents of dividend from 2021 results, four years ago, five years ago, 31 euros. Last year, 2025, we paid 92 euro cents, three times. And this year, hopefully, we will pay much more. So as long as that growth is profitable, there is no trade-off. It's a flywheel, actually.

You grow, you create more capital, you distribute it to your shareholders, you create more growth through this you invest and it's a flywheel positive flywheel as long as marginally you are profitable I think you framed it very well for everyone to understand I think it's quite important maybe let's go through some of the geographies that sort of contribute to what you just said starting with Mexico which is your largest profit contributor what BVA is is the largest financial institution in the country and you've clearly been benefiting from the near shoring trend. But if we look at global trade, there's obviously been a significant shift with around a third of global trade now exposed to some degree of uncertainty, while Mexico is also navigating through sort of the USMCA process, which is going to stay with us. Now, what are you seeing on the ground and what's your overview for your market position?

What we see on the ground is a bit of uncertainty, obviously, but I would say it's one of the misunderstood parts around Mexico, but we are quite positive and let me be more tangible and numbers oriented because otherwise it's all concepts and nothing is real. So let me put it into numbers. First of all, before the numbers, I do think this concept of USMCA and the trade relationship between U.S. and Mexico, because Mexico, 85% of the exports go to U.S. and so on. It's very important for Mexico. At the core, at the fundamental level, Mexico will be a beneficiary out of this in any case. Not because U.S. cares about Mexico per se, but for the competitiveness of the U.S., for the competitiveness of the U.S. businesses, at the fundamental level, we are positive. We quote this number from time to time, and it's analysis and data done by the U.S. administration, U.S. institutions, actually academic institutions in the U.S. The labor cost in Mexico for an average industry and for an average skill level versus a low-cost state in the U.S., like Indiana, I think, was the analysis. It's one-seventh. Seven-one. For the competitiveness of the U.S. industry, it's a major difference. You just cannot deny this fact. For competitiveness, U.S. businesses at least, U.S. economic environment needs Mexico. And also, as a neighbor, U.S., right next to Mexico, the other way around, you need a relatively stable neighbor. Otherwise, there are issues in immigration and many other crime and drugs and so on. So you need a relatively stable neighbor. So at the fundamental level, that is why if you read the U.S. trade representative report about USMCA, Every single U.S. business who contributed to that report, every single one of them basically claimed that they need Mexico in the mix. As a result, all the supply chains are integrated and so on. So at the fundamental level, you just cannot deny the fact that Mexico is needed. But what is happening, you ask on the ground what's happening. And on that one, maybe I share some data. The exports of Mexico to the U.S. in the first seven months of this year versus the seven months of last year, January, July, is up 16%. The share of Mexico in the U.S. import market has gone up from 15, 15.6 to be precise, to 17.2%. So Mexico is gaining share and growing very nicely in the exports to U.S. the average tariff for the Mexican products and goods to the U.S. is actually around 4%. And there's a result of this. It is true that there is uncertainty. There is uncertainty. But it is true that at the real level, when you look into the numbers, actually Mexico is not negatively affected at all from all the dialogue and political situation around tariffs. But more importantly, I would claim that in Mexico the key issue has always been, in the last 10 years, has always been domestic investments. Because FDI, even this year, FDI is up 2% first half of this year versus first half last year, up 2% FDI foreign direct investment. But domestic investments has been an issue. On that one, we see some light at the end of the tunnel. It's this President Sheinbaum. She is putting the right framework into mix. They announced this plan called Plan Mexico, which is basically 70, 80 billion dollars of investments every year in the next five years to be done to improve the infrastructure, to improve the energy environment, energy production environment of Mexico and so on. And this concept, this plan, we see that in every single country because we operate in many countries, but it's tangibilizing. We are seeing it in the ground. You might have seen it in the second quarter as part of Plan Mexico, there were tenders, 37 tenders finalized, worth $9 billion of investments to be done by private sector in the energy industry. They have names and now we are working with each one of them to be able to finance those investments. It is becoming real a bit, the domestic investments. Given all that, we are relatively positive on the macro environment. And on top of that, if you add the fact that, again, I mentioned it up front, low leverage. Mexico is one of the lowest leveraged countries, even in the emerging markets landscape. 35% banking debt over GDP, and Brazil is 70%. So there's so much potential in banking sector growth. Again, in short, if I wrap everything up, the country, obviously there is some uncertainty. But it has not been affected negatively from this latest trade dispute. It is affected, actually, positively, and on top of that, with the positive bias coming from Plan Mexico, we are relatively positive on the environment and on the banking sector.

And I guess that's one of the reasons why a lot of players want a banking license in So, staying with Mexico, you make nearly double the ROE of your Mexican banking peers, and whenever that's the case, I think it's natural for the market to wonder to what extent this gap can be sustained going forward, with the competitive landscape changing both across banks and with fintechs now what's your view there and we've seen a few fintechs get a banking license how do you see the competitive landscape in Mexico as you say the competitive environment is changing with a lot of fintechs gaining ground or being very visible very very very active in the market but before that again we talked about the environment which is positive in the

previous question but on this one I can also say that I've seen many banks in my career, in many geographies, even within the BBVA landscape, I would claim, again, a bit maybe subjective, but I believe I am objective by saying that it is one of the unique franchises that I've ever seen in my life in any country. It has the scale. We have 26% market share. It has what we call transactionality, which is very important for us. You have to be in the cash flow of clients in any segment, cash flow of clients to be able to have a better relationship with that customer we have more than 40 percent market share in payroll we have 35 percent market share in acquiring we are over proportionally represented in the cash flow of cash management systems of companies amazing franchise we have the best um technological capabilities if you look into our digital again going back to the to one of our differentiators as a bank we are one of the best digital players for sure in mexico in terms of digital capabilities and as a result of that But, as you say, we have nearly double return on equity. It has come down a little bit in the last years, mainly because of rates. Because when rates are low, that multiple comes down a bit. But when rates are high, it goes up. It's mainly because of the rates. But we have the better customer satisfaction than any other player. As a large player with 26% market share, it's not easy to be by far the best customer satisfaction player in the market, which we are. So it's a unique, unique bank. But you ask about the competitive environment, and you refer to, I guess, to the fintechs, If you look into the last five years, the change in competitive environment is mainly coming from this new breed of players that we see in the country, which is fintechs. I can say a few things on that one. So it's a very competitive environment, but we are competing well. Again, past is not always the best estimate of the future, but if you look into it, that's That's the only facts that we have on the table. If you look into our market share, we have been growing market share very nicely. Even in the markets, in the segments, in the products that fintechs are competing very aggressively, like in credit cards, we gained the market share in the last five years. We gained market share. So fintechs, one of them has now 4% market share. Where are they getting their own share? They are getting it from the smaller players, typically, small to mid-sized players. But us, we are competing really well. Now, we claim that we are one of the best fintechs in the country. Last year in Mexico, we acquired 4.7 million new customers, 4.7. Eighty-four percent of the customer acquisition in Mexico came from pure digital channels. They didn't go to a branch, they didn't call anyone. They became like a fintech, a customer of a bank through pure digital channels, 84 percent, more than 4 million customers. With these numbers, we are acquiring much more than any other fintech in the country through Digital Channel's new customers. So we compete really well. And we do think we have certain assets that they cannot replicate. The cash infrastructure, we have 15,000 ATMs. Cash is still very relevant in Mexico. We do have the full product set. Fintechs typically pick a certain product, not the whole thing, obviously. We have the best brand score in the country. I can go on and on, but in short, very competitive, a lot of fintechs, we take them really seriously. I have a dashboard in my table. I go every single day to look into that one piece of that dashboard is the development of fintechs in Mexico, especially on how they are developing. For every single client that is a BBVA customer, BBVA credit card customer who now has, who we detect also has a separate fintech credit card, we track that customer one by one. If we see a decline in the spending with us, we immediately create a program, a campaign for that customer specifically. So we take them really seriously, but so far it wasn't us who lost position and share. There is some margin erosion, but it's very normal.

As long as we continue to do 25% return on equity in the country we are we are okay that's interesting color on the dashboard thanks for sharing maybe moving on to spain which has been well one of the fastest economy once again uh this year you've been um well been gaining share actually with long growth at seven percent significantly outperforming the market uh similar question to mexico can you talk a little bit more about what you're seeing um about business and and the competitive landscape um and to what extent and these market share gains can come without compromising pricing discipline and cost of risk?

And cost of risk. The competitive environment is very heterogeneous in terms of segments of products, in certain products or actually in only one product which is mortgage, which is very price sensitive as you all know in banking, because you only buy a house and the mortgage once or twice, maybe a bit more, but very few times in your lifetime, and you care about the price, you to do the research, and so on. It's a very price-sensitive product. And we see a lot of competition on that one. But beyond that, the competitive environment, in our view, is in general healthy. But you asked about the market. So maybe I can break it down into different pieces. The country, the macro, continues to do really well. In Spain, the latest forecast that we have is going to grow with 2.4% GDP growth this year. And now we have a positive bias on that, because the numbers came even better than what we thought. so we might need to revise it up the team is working on this in October they will be publishing the final forecast that we have but very positive 2.4 versus around 1% of Europe every single year in the last 5-10 years this has been the case Spain grew more than 2% and Europe much less so we are among the large economies we are kind of the star in Europe for a few reasons number one There is a very pro-immigration environment and there is a very easy integration, especially most of the immigrants come from Latin America, which is the same language, we share the same culture. And that is creating a bit of a boost to economy that has been creating a boost. There is a lot of service-based economy. Spain is a service-based economy. And what we have seen, especially after COVID, is that service-based economies, they grow much better than pure manufacturing-based economies. Tourism, again this year we are going to have another record, but beyond tourism, all the service-based economies, all the service components, and there are a lot of people, we are blessed with Sun, many people basically work out of Spain to do software engineering for many other global companies. For example, the service-based economies or segments are growing very nicely, and also there has been this investment boost, investment drive for Spain, partially driven by this next generation EU funds, we have received basically 80 billion euros in three years from Europe to boost the economy, to boost the infrastructure. So there was also an investment component which was very positive. And when I look into the future, most of these components in one way or another will be there. So we still expect the macro to be quite positive. On top of that, so the economy grows well, the first part of the puzzle. Well, the banking sector grows even better for one simple reason, macro is strong. But even beyond that, Spain has deleveraged for 15 years after 2010, or 13, 14 years. Only after 2024, we are seeing some growth. But every other year, we have seen loan balances come down. And for the first time, after many, many years, basically the leverage in households, in corporates is now half of what they were in 2010. And now we are much lower leveraged than European averages, EU averages. So there is room also in the banking industry in a positive macro environment to grow. That's why you might have seen it in the first half, we grew our loan book by 7%. So, macro is positive, banking sector is positive. Then you ask about the competitive environment. In this environment, BBVA has been doing really well. We have been gaining market share, but we were very selective. In areas where we do think, again, I go back to the global priorities or global differentiators of BBVA, this capital discipline topic, again, easier said than done, but it's a mantra in BBVA. BBVA. We have to be getting the worth of the capital deployed. As a result, in the last five years, when you look into what has happened to BBVA, again proven by numbers, we have grown our enterprise loan market share by 250 basis points. Not easy in banking to gain as much. We have grown our consumer loan portfolio by 260 basis points, mainly to payroll clients because we are overrepresented in payroll the only place that we lost market share is mortgages where the competition is so you ask about growth is coming well but aren't you compensating the implication i guess was the returns no not at all in the areas where there is no return we stay back in the areas where we see return we push hard as a result of that we again have more than 20% return on equity in Spain business so it's going really well. It's the same story as the global thing as well. We have an amazing franchise in Spain. It's a 169 year old bank. The brand is someone that everyone knows. It's the household name in Spain. We are over represented in cash flow businesses as we call them. We have 14% market share in overall lending but we have 17% market share in payroll. We have close to 17% market share again in acquiring we are in the cash flow of clients we have this entrenched customer relationship we have an MPS a customer satisfaction much better than others again it goes back to digital it goes back to capital discipline but I don't think we are compromising at all the the return because we don't again marginally we don't invest our capital in areas that we don't see value so very positive on Mexico quite positive on Spain maybe we'll talk on we move on to Turkey which is part of your sort of diversification.

You are looking for a negative area. But of course Turkey is back on the radar and this time is not for good reasons. The direction of travel seems to have at the very least seemed to have been delayed to some extent and I'm referring particularly inflation expectations which is what matters for you. Those have moved back up and so have rates. You guided to somewhat around 1 billion net profit this year with a downward bias but more importantly the market you know was relying on on you coming off upper inflation accounting by 2028 which of course would be a big deal but maybe you can talk us through your expectations going forward and the key moving parts for your P&L very well so on hyper inflation accounting in the second quarter call we put it on the table basically saying that we don't expect Turkey to come out of hyperinflation in to 2028, which was the original assumption in our medium-term plan.

If you look into our medium-term plan and targets, it was assuming that Turkey will come out in 2028. Now we expect, as we said in the second quarter call, that that's not going to be the case. But we also said in the same call that Turkey might be delivering a bit less. Turkey was never a big part of the plan in any case, as we were saying from the first day on the plan. So it will be slightly negative in the overall plan concept, but we will be doing even better in our view than the plan for other reasons, for other parts of the business. But Turkey, as you know, as you said, in the short term at least is the negative part of the story. We have been actually... I come to this conference actually every year. It's the only one that I come actually every year. And until three years ago, personally and in general as the bank, we were, and I'm Turkish, so we were very negative on Turkey, very negative actually. In the last three years, we are a bit positive for the fact that the team who is managing the economy now is a very good team in our view. They are doing the right things, at least in that sense, as compared to before. So in the long term, we still maintain our positivity. But in the short term, as you say, it's negative. And you ask about the moving parts. We were very clear and we provided even the sensitivity at the beginning of the year. And in the short term, it turned out to be worse than what we expected. There are basically three macro parameters that defines the value creation, the P&L and the value creation of Turkey. Three parameters. Number one, inflation. We were expecting at the beginning of the year 25%. Now we are expecting today 30, so worse. As related to this, we were expecting inflation at the end of the year, sorry, interest rates to come down to, central bank policy rate to come down to 32. Now our expectation is 36. Again, worse than expected. So in the short term, negative. The currency has, the third parameter is the currency. What happens to currency? It is behaving better than what we have put into our original beginning of the year forecast. But currency is managed in Turkey, basically, in short, in that sense. So on that one, I wouldn't put a positive thing on the table. But the other two parameters, which is very important, inflation, interest rates, they turned out to be worse than what we expected. That's why we said $1 billion originally, then we put a negative bias to this, given this. We even provided the sensitivities on this. Every one percentage point in inflation, every one percentage point extra devaluation creates basically 15-20 million euro negative impact in BBVA profits. 15-20 million. Every one percentage point higher interest rate creates 40 million euro impact on the bottom line of BBVA. 40 million. So the numbers are very clear. If the macro parameters turn out to be worse than expected, you get penalized from this. That's why with the negative bias. We compensated for some of these through other means. So it's going to be, that's why, 1 billion with a negative bias, somewhere close to 1 billion, but not passing 1 billion, which was the original goal that we had at the beginning of the year. In short, given the macro parameters, short term, looks negative. And we would not be getting out of hyperinflation in 2028 as originally expected. But in the long term, again, given the fact that it goes back to how you manage this and whether you are sticking with orthodoxy or not, we have confidence in the fact that it is being managed properly in that sense. And as a result, for the long term, we are quite positive. And for the long term, this hyperinflationary accounting or accounting, so many questions are being asked on this one, Antonio, but I really do think it's not relevant. Because what matters is not the accounting, what matters is whether the inflation really comes down or not. Because hyperinflationary accounting for the P&L, it hurts you, but the hurting is a formula which is an amount multiplied by inflation. If inflation is lower, independent of hyperinflationary accounting is there or not, your negativity will be coming down. So if inflation comes down, independent of accounting, you would be benefiting from this. So what we should be looking into is what year are we getting of hyperinflation? And by the way, this is only for P&L. For capital, it's neutral, as you all know. So we should be asking whether Turkey will be reducing its inflation or not, not the time of hyperinflation. And on that one, 2027, we are not very hopeful. It's going to be probably in the 20s, high 20s. We haven't published any forecasts yet, but high 20s, inflation, because it's going to be either at the end of 2027 or early 2028, there will be elections. If there are elections, there's always some fiscal loosening. If there is some fiscal loosening, it hurts inflation. So 2027, we are not hopeful. 2028, it might be coming down, again, as long as they continue on this path of doing the right things. And when that happens, independent of hyperinflationary accounting, our expectation is that with inflation at teens, you would be delivering more than 2 billion euro in profits in Turkey because we have the best bank in the country, in our view.

That's a great answer. Thanks for that. We have eight minutes to go. I want to try and open up for questions from the audience. There is a question I want to ask you on technology, which I know is close to your heart and it's important in your story. Maybe let's test first if there are any questions from the audience.

If anyone wants to raise the hands, got one um thank you um you talked a lot about your businesses um but they're not really the place where the loan growth is the highest that's in your rest of business which has been growing year on year and by more than 50 which is an astonishing growth rate so i think perhaps we should hear a bit more about that from you is that business sustainable doesn't feel that it fits the criteria that you've just outlined and does it mean that you're up to your eyes in hyperscaler risk okay so as you said the growth relatively speaking is coming from there more

than any other thing but absolute at absolute levels no the growth is also coming from the other places just to be very specific we grew 52 53 percent in the rest of business as you say but it's a very low base. We grew 10 percent in Mexico and it came from a very large base. We grew 7 percent, 7.4 percent in Spain, which is the bulk of our loan book in any case. So at the absolute growth level, it's not that big because the starting base is very low. But we are growing in that business for a very clear reason, which is we want to tag along with our clients in wherever they are. We have seen an opportunity there. We have seen an opportunity. We have many clients. We are a global bank. We have many clients in Spain who do a lot of business in Spain, in Latin America, in the U.S. and we were not serving them. They were being captured by the U.S. banks in Latin America and we were like, no, this cannot be the case. Or there are many Mexican clients who do a lot of business in Latin America, in Argentina, in Colombia, in Peru. We are there and why were they banking with the U.S. banks in the CIP business? It didn't make sense. So we wanted to own that business. As part of that business, when you are in the countries that you were not before in a relatively large way to serve our own clients, there were opportunities in the US, in Asia, in the rest of Europe that we wanted to benefit from. But we started publishing this in the second quarter results. You would see it in the appendix. You would see that our CIV business is number one, it's client driven. It's not prop trading or trading driven you would see that a vast majority of our revenues in that business in rest of business comes from clients number one number two you would see in that page same page that 40 percent 40 percent of our profits come from BTP transactions cross-border so it's basically clients the the the revenues that we generate from the clients outside of their home country. As a result, we do think that's a natural turf that we can play well and that we can gain, again, better returns. The best proxy of this, again, is the return on capital. Our return on capital in the CIV business is excluding Turkey because Turkey inflates the number to an even better level. Excluding Turkey is 23.4% return on capital, clearly above our cost of equity as long as we maintain the focus that i just mentioned those returns are very positive for us and we will create value you ask about hyperscalers as part of that obviously you have some exposure to hyperscalers but we do think you know us quite well i mean proven by numbers not it's a subjective assessment proven by numbers we do have a very conservative risk profile our cib businesses conservative risk follow your clients and deliver above cost of equity that's the play there thanks for the question and thanks for the answer anymore from the audience there's one over there thank you last week president trump mentioned the

possibility of the u.s reaching bilateral agreement with mexico is not the usmca but You think that will be enough to improve the business confidence in the country, to start thinking again of lending activity to nearshoring, and what will be the opportunities for corporates and the SME sector?

Yeah, very good question. Legally speaking, that's a very remote possibility. So USMCA, which is a three-party deal, cannot be converted into two bilateral deals, cannot It has to go through the legal process in the U.S. That's the interpretation of our legal team and I think shared by the market, that it has to be going through the market, through the Congress and so on, for that to be a bilateral deal. It cannot happen because the Congress and so on, you'll know what's going to happen there and so on. But what we are seeing is within the three-party deal of USMCA, the treatment of Mexico going forward is going to be a relatively positive one versus what we are seeing between US and Canada so there can be different treatments within the USMCA framework they can inject things that make that can make things worse for the US Canada relationship but better for US Mexico which is the base case that we have but the completely new deal which is going to be giving a preferential treatment to Mexico is not going to happen that's not the base case that we have thank you I mean technology is going to be a theme for the next few years the way financial institutions adopt new technologies and i mean you're a market leader on this is any any more color you want to share on on what bva is doing and why bva stands out on this important as i as i mentioned it is one of the things that we thought that we should do better than others we thought digital at the time was a differentiation play not a hygiene not everyone will have it so there is no differentiation kind of a perspective Everyone thought that let's follow, let's do the transactions through digital channel, but digital is kind of servicing or whatever. We thought no, it can be a differentiation channel, it can be a differentiation topic. That is why we claim that we are embracing in general technology, innovation, digitalization much better than others. That is why we spend 4.5 billion euros cash out to technology every single year, which is relatively large as compared to relatively speaking to our competitors. And we are going to do the same thing with AI. We are going to do the same thing with AI. Because what we are seeing is already it is creating a differentiation. We have 127,000 people working for BBVA. Most of them are client-facing, but every single one of them, including the ones who are facing clients, they can be much more productive, much more effective with AI, number one. Number two, we are a retail and commercial bank. We are basically an accumulation of processes. We do the same thing over and over again for the same customer, for millions of customers, processes. We have thousands of them. Every single process that we have in the bank can be much more productive, can be much more effective with AI. And the customer interface is going to change big time with AI, as it changed with digital. I give the same example all the time. We have 81 million customers. And globally, because we are a global bank, except Turkey, basically 81 million customers, they open the same app. It's the same when they open the app, BBVA in Argentina, in Colombia, in Peru, in Mexico, in Spain, it's the same app. But 81 million customers, they all do different things with the app. Why do we open the same app to them? Why do we not tailor it a bit to what they want to do with the app, with the bank? Why do we still do lots of click, click? If you want to send money, the basic transaction, you do five clicks. It's not in your address book. You have to input the IBAN and so on. Click, click, click, click. Why do we do this? Why can't we talk to our app and get things done? Banking is going to change, in my view, once again with AI. And as we have done in digital, we are going to be a differentiator.

Thank you very much. We could have gone all day talking about this. uh it's a pleasure to have you and we're very happy that it's your go-to conference every year so thanks everyone for attending and thank you to everyone