Conference Transcript - ATRC 2026-05-12

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

All right. Good morning, everyone. My name is Aiden Leahy. I'm on the MedTech team here at Bank of America. Really happy to introduce Atric here. We have CEO Mike Carroll and CFO Angie Weirich. We're going to do a 30-minute fireside chat, but thanks, everyone, for joining us. I guess Mike, Angie, you're starting out at a high level on the 26 guide and some of the growth drivers in the business. You know, you delivered 15% revenue growth in 2025. You're guiding the 12 to 14 in 26. You know, as a management team, you've consistently met or exceeded your guidance. So how should investors think about the setup for the year? What's giving you confidence in the range? And do you feel there's an appropriate level of conservatism baked in, given the macro environment?

Angela Wirick, CFO

I'm going to start with your last question first, yes. I think there's appropriate conservatism. Our philosophy, and we've said this many times, is we want to put guidance out there that we feel really comfortable not just being able to meet, but that there's a pathway to beat. And when I look at the setup for 2026, I'd say the big thing that we say is innovation is really driving revenue growth. in 2026 continuation of a lot of the product launches that we started in 2025 so in our paying management business the cryosphere max probe in our appendage management business we have two product launches the flex mini and the pro mini so those both give us a shot on goal i think in each one of these new product launches you are talking about driving both growth and volume but then also pricing uplift because there's new innovation built into the devices and then even though it's not a new product launch i don't think i can say encompass is a new product launch at this point in time but we were also still very bullish on what we're seeing within the open ablation

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

landscape and encompass continuing to drive growth and pain management has been one of the the growth drivers for consecutive years now you know max has been the core driver but you recently lost launched xt for lower extremities you know how should we think about the impact of xt on the franchise's growth profile going forward whether that be in 27 or in the second half of 26 yeah i think with xt so the device specific to the amputations market we launched soft launch at the very end of 2025 and have kind of started full launch at this point in time you know from a guidance perspective we said expected to contribute more fulsome in the back half of

Angela Wirick, CFO

2026 as we're exiting the year just giving us time with the new therapy and market development that take some time to get up and going you know i think the way that you think about xt in the context of our pain management franchise growth is while you start to hit kind of bigger numbers a lot of large numbers start to apply in the base area of the business thoracic and sternotomy this is another driver for us this is another way to augment and keep that pain management business at a very high growth rate you know in terms of the other franchises you know open ablation and page management have been kind of the durable core of the business um you know encompass has been a big driver of that you know but you said it's not a new product launch anymore but still driving growth how should investors think about how much runway is left in the adoption curve there i think there's an incredible runway i think even within afib patients you're talking about the vast majority still don't get treated today encompass helps us unlock that opportunity probably more exciting is one of the trials that we're running today boxx no af that uses the encompassed device in multiple multiplies our opportunity in cardiac surgery effectively what you're going to say is at the end of the day whether or not the patient has a fib we believe that there's a reason for you to ablate the patient to manage their appendage and the pathway to being able to do that is the encompassed device and if you think about this data and numbers there's two million patients that go cardiac surgery every year and last year just over 100 thousand were treated with some sort of device from atric here so you've got a long runway

Mike Carrel, CEO

with the trials that we're running that are very differentiated on that on that standpoint and compass is what enables that we took a procedure that was 40 minutes down to less than 10 so we you know operationalized it for those surgeons we made it really an approachable area so there's a ton of runway so while it's not new in many ways it's new to the surgeons that we're introducing it to because they weren't doing any treatment before you know kind of moving from top line drivers to profitability margins which has been you know a really good story for each of your as of late you know you doubled adjusted evita nearly in 25 regarding 82 to 80 or 80 to 82 million 26 seems like kind of ahead of the curve on the lrp you gave in march um so thinking about that

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

is it is it possible we could see that 20 percent plus uh even a margin before uh the 23 target yeah I think it's very real given the trajectory that we're on.

Angela Wirick, CFO

Again, no differently from our top-line philosophy, when we guide on the bottom line, we want to make sure that we can deliver the number and a pathway to a beat. You've seen improvements to profitability, and I think that have exceeded our own expectations. I think what's so compelling about our story is that we're doing that while still making pretty big investments in landmark clinical trials, things that we expect to be growth drivers for the business longer term.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

Got it. And you had your first quarter of positive gap net income in the fourth quarter of 25. You're getting a full year positive gap net income in 26. As Atriker crosses that profitability threshold, how should we think about the financial story of the company evolving? Is there any change in kind of your view of the company as a growth company, or is it still kind of steady-eddy that way?

Angela Wirick, CFO

Yeah, I think we are investing for growth. you know primary focus for us a capital allocation one two and three you're focused very much on organic development of activities that we think are going to be long-term growth drivers i mean we want to continue our path on profitability to show that we're good stewards of you know the investments that we're making i think it just tells you between the markets that we're in very consistent double digit revenue growth and high gross margins given the investments that we've made in the company we have the ability to be very very profitable as a business long term but still focused very much so on investing for growth and alongside that profitability you're turning into cash flow positivity as well so you talked about capital allocation obviously being

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

growth growth growth but as you move into that positive free cash flow you know phase is there any any room for a former return formal return of capital program is that something you've considered In the near term, no. You also got a new manufacturing facility coming online in the second half of the year. You call that as a modest gross margin headwind. How long should we think about that absorption period lasting, and when does it move from maybe a structural headwind to a tailwind?

Angela Wirick, CFO

Yeah, I think you're talking near term, within the next year or so. It's a bit of a headwind from a gross margin perspective. We will start manufacturing in that building much later this year. will open it up start you start to bear the burden of the of the facility but once you get operational i think that this is something that will ultimately turn the vision behind the expanded manufacturing capacity very much dovetails into what we presented at our investor day a year ago which was we expect to be able to hit a billion dollars in revenue you know as we exit this decade we felt very good about line of sight and the drivers that we have within the business to be able to do that we want to make sure that we were investing to support that growth this manufacturing expansions helps us do just that kind of moving to the competitive landscape which has been a very hot topic for a secure over the

Mike Carrel, CEO

recent years you know peniture was an overhang on the stock for about a year but it seems like you've kind of weathered that storm and come on the other side maybe stronger in some regards you know what drove that outcome and your ability to weather that with the scale player entering the market and how do you think that displays the moat you've built around at your clip and the clinical data you've you've made i think first is just our our view on competition is that if a market has big competitors coming into your space that means it's a really big space and probably a lot bigger than where you are so i think it's a recognition of the investments that we've made over the last 10 plus years people now see because of our success they're looking to kind of follow us into that space especially coming from those big players i think that is a compliment to us in terms of the work that we've done that front plus every other time a second and third competitive coming into space the overall market has grown because you've now got more people talking about it and generating data and generating conversations with surgeons in our case you saw that in tabber you saw that in the left atrial appendage space in particular both of those accelerated when they saw competition coming in so we view competition in a very positive way even though obviously you've got to detail it out and you want to win in the field we do view it overall as positive. Now, getting to the specifics of why do we think that we win and why have we won in that space is because we've never stopped investing in the core principles of our company. And those are really three core principles. Number one is innovation. If you look at what we've done on the AtraClip side of things, we went from the original product to a VClip product, which is what everybody's trying to copy now, to a mini product, which is 60% smaller than any product on the market today, even our own. And we're now coming out with a new one coming next year what customers recognize from us is the quality of that product the innovation that comes into it is that we're meeting their needs and that we're listening to them and so we've got great products they're smaller they're safer all you have to do is you know go out there and you can look we actually have no events with this product i mean it's an incredible point zero zero one percent event rate with it is an incredibly safe product so you combine the innovation with the safety and quality you have then you add to that the fact that we make investments in clinical evidence. We believe that innovation is great, but without clinical evidence, you can't really create that full moat that you're talking about. All the clinical evidence that has been generated over the last 10 years is with our product. So we have over 21,000 patients that have been studied, over 100 peer-reviewed papers, many randomized controlled trials, and we've got LEAPs coming down the pathway, which is the largest cardiac surgery trial ever done. You invest in innovation, put clinical evidence behind that that's very specific to your product and the performance of your product versus anybody else people recognize this is what we do and what we know which leads you to the third thing and the third pillar of what we build which is education and training and awareness and so our teams understand the space better than anybody else they've got great relationships they're in the cases and this is what we do every day we're super focused on atrial fibrillation and the left atrial appendage that's what we do incredibly well we've got a whole team of people that talk about it think about it study it every single day and were recognized as a result by the physicians as being that way. Not just by physicians, but by hospitals as well. We've helped them get reimbursement. We've helped them get the guidelines to change. You combine all those things, that's why we win. It's not like any one thing that allows us to win. But at the end of the day, the best product wins. And so we've got the best product on the market, and we believe that with the new competition, we'll still have the best product.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

And you said that competitors are trying to copy the V-clip, but you're already one generation working on two generations ahead of that so in a way that kind of emboldens your mode even more yes um obviously kind of the 100 million pound elephant in the room edwards announced that they're going to be uh entering the appendage management market um when you think about kind of the markets edwards addresses you know does that threaten a meaningful portion of your revenue how do you think about the the impact of edwards entering the market and how do you think your experience with pendature influences your ability to kind of continue to maintain that moat that you talked about again let's start first the fact that

Mike Carrel, CEO

edwards is interested in our in our market and or the market that we're in that we've been focused on for the last 10 plus years we take it as a compliment they think this market is that big so to us we think it's going to elevate everybody in the space that they're actually getting into the space we welcome them with open arms and then we'll compete with them on a day-to-day basis You know, how do we think we can compete with them is that that focus I talked about before, the continued innovation, we know we're going to have better products. We believe that our products are incredibly differentiated and that they're chasing old products when they're coming out with their new product when they come to market. They're not going to have the level of data or evidence in that area. For Edwards in particular, great company. I mean, obviously they've done wonderful things to build markets over many years, and we've got a ton of respect for what they do on that front. They just don't know this space nearly as well as we do. And so as they enter into it, most of the procedures they are going to be involved with, they're a valve company, that they're adding this to the valvular procedures. And they've been very open about that. Two-thirds of all patients that go into cardiac surgery are coronary bypass patients. And we are in there for the ablation and the atriclip, not just the atriclip. And so we're in the CABG procedures, so there's not as much of an exposure on that front. And then when you add in the valve side, they're going to do an ablation on those patients as well. and we're in there with them and we have a huge sales force that's well-trained on that front. So I think we're well-positioned on that front. We're not taking it lightly. We know they're going to be coming into the market. I think we're all waiting for what does that product look like and how are they going to compete with us on that front, but we're going to be ready. And again, we welcome them.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

You talked about the limited exposure on the cabbage side. What can you do to accelerate and kind of deepen your position in that portion of the business?

Mike Carrel, CEO

I think you're seeing it. I talked about number one is the LEAPS trial, which is a trial we started well before we knew this competition was coming into the space, is that upon, like, we invested in it, we're fully enrolled in it, we will be the only company with a stroke label that is very specific to our product. That is a global positioning that we've basically done. It was a global trial that we did for that. Number two is we invested in BOXX and OAF, which is the prophylactic treatment of that patient so that you're basically reducing anybody's chance of getting AFib, both postoperatively and in their lifetime. A clip is in every one of those as well. So you're adding an ablation tool plus the atric clip. I think that puts us in a great position overall from creating that mode that you talked about.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

And we've touched on this a lot so far. Your clinical trials, which is something atricure has been heavily investing in and kind of a leader in the space. You know, I think you talked about roughly two-thirds of cardiac surgery patients don't present with AFib, but a significant portion will develop it postoperatively. so when you think about the BOX-ECNO-AF trials and LEAPS like you said, you touched on this but at a high level, what do these trials mean for AtriCure as a whole?

Mike Carrel, CEO

They're game changing to think about it our vision is that every patient that enters the operating room for cardiac surgery has an ablation plus an atrioclip on them and maybe they also get a sternotomy nerve block on it if they're going in for a sternotomy so we think that We're there. We understand ablation and the AFib incredibly well. Our products are the only ones used in these trials, so they're very specific in terms of what will actually work on that patient population. They're very large, randomized controlled trials. We think it changes the game. It takes it from 100,000 patients getting treated every year to hopefully 2 million at some point in time, not obviously overnight, but, I mean, obviously that's the big patient population. What you do know in cardiac surgery is there are 2 million patients that undergo cardiac surgery every year.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

If we can prove that almost every one of them will benefit from an ablation with our technology, our Encompass Clamp, and the Atric Clip, that is a huge benefit for Atric Care overall, and quite frankly, at the end of the day, for the patients. but yep so if we if we fast forward and both trials read out positively obviously there's kind of a lag for guidelines to to update um you kind of touched on this a second ago but you know how should we think about the impact on your addressable market um and the kind of commercial investments and infrastructure upgrades that might be necessary to facilitate ramping that growth yeah i think when you get positive data there should be a bit of a bump you know in terms of the revenue boost here i think definitively once you have the label you've gone

Angela Wirick, CFO

through the full pma process and you've got an approval that gives our team the license to hunt you know they're able to go out and really market to this i think the the good news is this is an existing customer with an existing sales force we will of course look to see where we need to augment and territory sizes that maybe make sense upon the launch to split here but this isn't training a new surgeon this isn't a new call point for us this is an existing market they're using the devices they're just saying look rather than looking only for patients with afib to treat i'm going to treat every patient effectively that's on my operating table leaps also hit recently hit the 50 event rate you know what does that mean for the trial exactly and how should we think the

Mike Carrel, CEO

about the path to a readout from here yeah what it does i mean the events are accumulating at a reasonably fast pace we you've got a five-year follow-up from the end of enrollment which takes into 2030. Since we've already hit 50%, that likely tells you we're probably going to be earlier than 2030. It's tough to predict exactly because you get waves of the events that come in, but we have to hit 469 events in total. Again, like you said, we're over 50%. We'll just keep marching towards that full piece. It's kind of a wait-and-see game at this point in time. It will be before 2030. I just don't know how much earlier.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

Got it.

Angela Wirick, CFO

And then on BoxX and OIF, almost a year ahead of schedule, I believe. can you walk us through the timeline from enrollment completion data adjudication presentation and then eventual pma submission and any conference you're targeting for presenting that data yeah so we will expect to complete enrollment around the end of 2026 the first follow-up so the first primary endpoint was 30 days post-procedure so relatively short time frame after you've completed enrollment we'll go through the data adjudication process you know we are targeting a surgical conference early in 2027 i think logically aats is probably the right one to think about just but depends on pace of enrollment and when we finalize and then typically working through fda process is around a 12-month time frame so you're talking about positive data we believe in early in 2027 and then approval in early 28 the nice thing about this trial is it doesn't just end there i mean that gives us a chance to win in a very short time frame we will follow these same patients for a three-year timeline to see what happens to their clinical AF burden and then go back to the FDA upon, you know, again, positive results so later at the end of this decade have another chance of enhancing the label further.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

And I want to touch on something you said earlier about the label being exclusive for So if these trials are successful and you do have the label expansion, that would be exclusively for your products. That would not be something that would be, you know, rising tides, raise all boats.

Mike Carrel, CEO

I mean, somebody might try to – they have a 510 kit. They can sell their products, but they can't make the claims that we're making relative to this. Relative to stroke, reduction in post-op AFib, and reduction in clinical AFib. Got it.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

You know, you have a good slide in your investor deck where you show the progression of guidelines for your treatments over time. You know, guidelines have been a tailwind for the business. They've consistently been upgraded. You know, most recently had some STS, you know, post-operative AFib quality metric updates come out. That goes into effect in 2027, I believe. You know, today only, you know, 35% of cardiac surgery, AFib patients end up getting treated. How should we think about that number increasing over the next couple years?

Mike Carrel, CEO

And how should we think about the commercial tailwind to a-trickure from that? i think that combined with box x no af is going to improve adoption quite dramatically what that means is that the surgeon is going to be effectively required to do an ablation on the patients that have atrial fibrillation and as you said it's only 35 today this is the society's way of saying okay we gave you guidelines that said you should treat now we're going to put some teeth behind that and we're going to tell you that not only are there guidelines we're going to actually make it part of your metrics that your hospital will be dinged if you don't ablate or treat enough patients. The reason they're doing that is because they know that if you treat that patient, that patient does better. And that's why they're doing it. And so I think that that's going to have a big boon to our business. Likely, obviously, sometime at the end of next year, you might see some kind of effect of that around the same time that BoxX is going to basically hopefully have some data out as well. So I think that that's a big positive.

Angela Wirick, CFO

As Angie said, we think the combination of that probably helps the growth rate in that part of the business. and you mentioned that you know star ratings um is there a commercial playbook you're thinking of for how you can take the most advantage of this um any incremental investment and then was were these guideline changes probably not incorporated in the lrp so that's probably a positive right yeah definitely a positive i'd say relative to the lrp so i think we're our team is always looking about the best way to have the you know to drive some of these initiatives beyond just the commercial team you start to think about your reimbursement team your marketing folks how can you help further that message you know you've got kind of feet on the street but then how do you how does the company overall provide air coverage and thinking through what that looks like once the quality metrics are out there and helping our accounts further understand how they can really take advantage of this and not be behind when this comes into play got it um kind of switching gears to the franchises starting with pain management which we talked about has and kind of been a nice growth driver for you.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

It's grown quickly, but without the benefit of reimbursement. How do you see the path to coverage? Is there a credible path to coverage? And what would unlocking reimbursement, if that did happen, mean for the TAM and adoption curve?

Mike Carrel, CEO

Unlock reimbursement when you need data. So we're investing in a lot of individual site data, getting it published. The more and more that data gets published, that's what happened in cardiac surgery. So you have something to compare to. In cardiac surgery, we saw the guidelines came out first. That was all from data we basically put together and we invested in. Those guideline changes then led to, four years later, reimbursement changes, which has obviously continued on and now leading to star ratings. I think the same playbook is going to happen within cryo, which is that we're investing in the data. Hopefully, that leads to guideline changes, which then lead to reimbursement. That would be a game changer in this space because that is one of the big pushbacks is they're not getting paid for it, and the margins aren't nearly as good in thoracic surgery as they are in cardiac surgery.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

And kind of building on that, you know, XTE is now launched, and you've had a kind of deliberate ramp. In terms of your accounts, like how many accounts are active? You know, what is the current physician feedback you're hearing? And then does the amputation market have a meaningfully different adoption profile than thoracic?

Angela Wirick, CFO

Yeah, so at this point, we're in about two dozen accounts. So every cryo rep that we have in the field was told, focus on one account, one account only. go really deep with your initial procedure make sure that it's well understood so about two dozen or so accounts which we think is good progress to start the year at this point in time you know this is in the amputation space this is the procedure itself you know the primary procedure of doing an amputation hasn't changed in a very long time so this is new technology into procedures that hasn't seen a lot of innovation i think beyond the excitement of hey there's something to be excited about the feedback that the physicians can see and the nice thing about our pain management business as you know is you can see that immediately post-procedure you're not waiting for a year to see okay is a patient's afib still a problem or not you can see this immediately post-procedure and the feedback that we get from surgeons who have used the device along with the care teams who are caring for the patients post-procedure is exceptional they can see the benefit it has for the patients i think longer term no different from our other markets within cryo nerve block looking to surround this therapy with additional data being able to market to not just post-operative pain but the potential for could it help with phantom limb pain so thinking really big on this opportunity here i think given it's a new therapy and a new call point for us in a new area that hasn't seen a lot of innovation the ramp may be a little bit slower than we saw in our thoracic business but it still keeps us very bullish that this is long-term a great growth opportunity for the company.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

I'm talking about growth opportunities. Max has been a nice growth driver, but now it's in roughly about 75% of your accounts. You know, when we think about pain management growth, is there an aspect where we start to get law of large numbers and we start to see growth slow a little bit? Or do you think there's a way to kind of offset that with the XT launch and, you know, a possible strenotomy expansion to extend the runway for that growth acceleration?

Angela Wirick, CFO

Yes, yes, and yes. I think that's what's happening today in the field. I think we're starting to see with sternotomy, the feedback that we got from surgeons was we can see that it works, but to add the time that the legacy device took to do the ablation, they said it's just too long. I think Cryosphere Max gives us our chance, our team, to go back to those surgeons, say you believed in it, you thought it had an impact, but we're talking about a significant reduction in time, and those have been sticky procedures. The volume of growth, the volume of activity we do still is within the thoracic space. But I think in this particular area, continuing to find ways where cryoablation, managing a patient's pain for nerves that are exposed in surgical procedures, I think we're going to find multiple ways to continue to develop and cultivate new markets that help keep this as a high-growth driver.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

And kind of turning to your leading franchise, Appendant Management, you talked about this earlier, the Next Generation Nature clip. It's coming in 2027. Can you talk about what that product is, how it fits in the portfolio, and if it's addressing a different segment of the market that the current lineup doesn't?

Mike Carrel, CEO

Currently, we've got the FlexMini product in the market. That has taken over the market by storm. It is much smaller than anything else that's out there. Super easy to deploy, allows for great visualization, knowing that you're getting down to the base of the appendage. The new product that's coming out is going to be a V version of that, so an open-ended version so you can kind of place that some people like that approach and so that's the whole purpose behind it one is to give that to surgeons who like the open end versus the closed and you've got a mix of surgeons on that front number two is it also allows us on the minimally invasive side to get it down a smaller trocar which is really important towards any type of procedure whether it's a hybrid procedure but also towards minimally invasive cardiac surgery mitral valve surgery etc getting that visualization is really important and that v clip i think is going to make a big difference on that.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

And you just talked about hybrid. Obviously, another point of discussion of what the company has been, PFA and its impact on the ablation franchises. And obviously, PFA has been a kind of hot topic in MedTech as a whole. You recently completed first in human treatments with your combo RF, PFA, and compass clamp in December. What does combining those modalities offer surgeons? And how should we think about the clinical trial path from here?

Mike Carrel, CEO

Sure. So we believe it's incredibly differentiated technology that we have combining PFA plus RF because it actually hits at different mechanisms of action on the heart. So you're going to have a much more complete, much more durable procedure when you do that. And it's going to be on our encompass clamp first and that's going to enable for that really fast and efficient procedure. I told you before that to do the same level of ablations before, you had to do 30 plus minutes. Most of that is not the ablation time, it's the access time. That's why you were able to get down to less than 10 minutes. This will actually reduce the ablation times that were in there quite dramatically from three minutes or so of total ablation times down to well less than one minute. It just makes it easier for that surgeon to do it and to make it more approachable from that standpoint.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

As PFA came out of the market, there was kind of a distraction from the MIS business. As PFA has gotten more penetrated into the market, we're kind of hitting significantly higher levels of penetration than we saw maybe a year ago. Does that change your view? Is it a structural headwind, or is this something you still think is an opportunity to, as the market matures for you to gain clarity and start to see a rebound in that business?

Angela Wirick, CFO

Yeah, I think where we sit today with our hybrid business, we have incredibly compelling clinical data and outcomes when used on patients we know are unrivaled. You know, this is in longstanding persistent AFib patients, the converge procedure, a dual approach, combining the best of surgery as well as what an EP is doing, we know is unrivaled for that patient set. I think our, you know, belief that this could be a first-line therapy, you know, at this point in time, given the shift in this landscape to PFA, you know, this is probably not a first-line therapy, but that being said, this is a good option for patients who have failed catheter ablation, something else has been tried, or, you know, there's a belief that they're just ready for the convergent procedure out of the gate. I just think this is a place where clinically we're still very relevant. There isn't another device that's been proven to help these patients in this way. So we look at this and say there's still an opportunity here. What we're looking for, very frankly, is within kind of the account landscape to see a little bit more consistency in that referral flow. PFA has been a great technology for EPs and for that space. But coming to the realization of this may not be the best thing for every patient and repeatedly doing a catheter ablation and moving on to a therapy that will help the patient, I think we look at that and say we're here to catch when that happens and believe that this is a very compelling clinical advantage, you know, for the company has.

Aiden Leahy, Analyst — Bank of America

You talk about Converge. It takes multiple PFA catheter failures before an AP can refer for it. You know, what does it take to shorten that referral pathway? You know, is there anything you can do on the data or commercial side to accelerate that?

Mike Carrel, CEO

I think the biggest thing from that is once you get somebody who starts to do patients with convergent and they realize that I'm only gonna do one PFA and then refer them I don't think you're gonna get it where it's gonna be first-line therapy I think what you're gonna see is maybe after that one or that second one then sites that are starting to see success with convergent will then start to obviously do a little bit earlier after the first one that's it's gonna have to be time on that front I think we're at time Mike Angie thank you for Thank you for joining us and thanks everyone in the audience. Appreciate it.