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Earnings call · FY2026 Q1
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Good morning, everyone. I would like to welcome you to the Credit Corp Limited first quarter 2026 conference call. A slide presentation will accompany today's webcast, which is available in the Investors section of Credit Corp's website. Today's conference call is being recorded. As a reminder, all participants will be in listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions at the end of today's presentation. If you would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star and one on your telephone keypad. If you have connected to the call using the HD web phone on your computer, please use the keypad on your computer screen. If you are using a speakerphone, please make sure to mute function, use your mute function as turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment. Now it is my pleasure to turn the conference over to Credit Court's IRO, Ms. Milagros Siguenas. You may begin.
Thank you and good morning, everyone. Speaking on today's call will be Gianfranco Ferrari, our Chief Executive Officer, and Alejandro Pérez Reyes, our Chief Financial Officer. Participating at the Q&A session will also be Francesca Rajo, Chief Innovation Officer, Cesar Rios, Chief Risk Officer, and Eduardo Montero, Head of Insurance and Pensions. Before we proceed, I would like to make the following State Harbor State. Today's call will contain forward-looking statements which are based on management's current expectations and beliefs and are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties. And I refer you to the forward-looking statements section on our earnings release and recent filings with the SEC. We assume no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements to reflect new or changed events or circumstances. Gianfranco Ferrari will begin the call with remarks on recent macro and political environments, the key levers of our decoupling strategy, and a brief overview of our quarterly results, followed by Alejandro Perez Reyes, who will provide a more detailed analysis of key macroeconomic indicators, our financial performance, and our outlook for full year 2026. Gianfranco, please go ahead.
Thank you, Milagros. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. Let me begin by thanking our shareholders for the strong support at our recent annual general meeting. The outcome of the Board elections reflects a deliberate, strategy-led refreshment process fully aligned with Credit Corp's long-term priorities. As announced, shareholders approved the appointment of three new directors and the re-election of six current members. The new directors bring complementary expertise in areas that are increasingly critical for us, particularly technology and AI, financial and regulatory oversight, and strategic execution, as we continue advancing our transformation and strengthening our operating model. Importantly, our governance framework remains robust, with key safeguards firmly in place, including a fully independent audit committee and independent directors leading critical committees. This provides a strong foundation as we navigate different operating environments. At the global level, recent geopolitical tensions, particularly in the Middle East, have increased uncertainty, mainly through higher energy prices and their potential impact on inflation and the outlook for interest rates. Since our last conference call, Peru's economic activity has been affected by a series of temporary supply-side shocks including higher oil prices related to the conflict in the Middle East, a localized energy disruption and adverse weather conditions that led to contraction in primary sectors. That said, the positive momentum of the economy continues to remain solid. Several activities indicators including private investment continue hosting double-digit growth supported by resilient macroeconomic fundamentals and favorable export prices, with copper currently trading at around $6.50 per pound. Against this backdrop, we're maintaining our GDP growth expectation for 2026 at around 3.5%, though our outlook has become more skewed to the downside, with recent macroeconomic indicators tracking closer to 3.2%. More importantly, domestic demand remains particularly dynamic, growing above 4%, which we view as the more relevant driver for long growth going forward. As we await the official confirmation of results, the presidential runoff appears likely to feature candidates with markedly different economic visions, including one advocating for a significantly more interventionist role for the State. Should that candidate prevail, some initial market uncertainty could emerge. However, we believe the composition of the Senate is the more decisive factor and it is trending toward a configuration that supports macroeconomic fundamentals and institutional continuity. In our view, this legislative balance will act as an effective counterweight helping to preserve political stability. Peru's structural safeguards, including the Senate's veto authority, and constitutional hurdles to significant policy shifts are likely to act as effective constraints, helping preserve the independence of the central bank and its mandate, particularly regarding monetary financing to the Treasury. Given this, we remain confident that Peru's economic model will continue to grow resilient, supported by solid institutional frameworks. Against this backdrop, we continue to closely monitor price dynamics and monetary conditions. Inflation has seen an uptick to 4% year-over-year, mainly driven by transport, energy, and food costs. As a result, monetary conditions are likely to remain somewhat tighter than previously anticipated. Across the region, the operating environment remains mixed, reflecting the initial impact of external pressures. In Colombia, activity remains relatively resilient, supported by consumption, while policy uncertainty persists ahead of the presidential elections on May 31st. In Chile, growth has softened amid weaker early-year activity and higher oil prices. At the same time, the new government offers improved prospects for private investment. In Bolivia, macroeconomic conditions remain challenging with performance exceeding expectations. Overall, while external conditions remain dynamic, the resilience of our core markets, combined with the strength and attractiveness of our offerings give us confidence that 2026 will remain a solid year. As we look ahead, we will further execute our decoupling strategy through four differentiated growth anchors. First, we are strengthening our leading position in the under-penetrated markets where we continue to seek clear avenues of growth. We see significant room to deepen financial inclusion and expand our reach across client segments where structural gaps persist. This enables us to grow while maintaining discipline risk standards. Second, we're scaling our integrated digital ecosystem. In 2026, we will leverage our platforms to accelerate client acquisition, deepen engagement, and increase cross-sell, while also improving efficiency and customer experience. A key component in our innovation portfolio is our Neobank unit, which, effective April 1st, brings together IAPE and EO in Peru, Tempo in Chile, and IAPE in Bolivia under a common umbrella, led by Raimundo Morales. These platforms expand our reach and open new avenues for growth, particularly in payments and lending. More broadly, we are deepening our competitive mode by leveraging our scale, client-based, and ecosystem integration to drive sustained differentiation and progressively higher monetization. Third, we are unlocking synergies by leveraging shared capabilities across our ecosystem. We are placing greater emphasis on data, analytics, and risk management capabilities that can be deployed across businesses. This also includes advancing our knowledge sharing agenda so that these practices can be applied across sub-series, improving decision making, client targeting and risk assessment. While we are still in the early stages, we are already seeing tangible benefits and we believe this represents a meaningful opportunity going forward. Finally, delivering strong and resilient returns across economic cycles. This is underpinned by a prudent and holistic approach to risk and capital management across the organization. We continue to strengthen our capabilities across credit, liquidity, and operational risk, while maintaining a disciplined approach to capital allocation. This integrated framework is translating into more consistent performance and reinforces our resilience, enhancing our ability to navigate volatility, support sustainable growth, and protect recurrence across different macro environments. Turning now to the first quarter results. We reported a very solid ROE of 21.1%, which exceeded expectations and reflects strong fundamentals across our core businesses. Operational performance was robust across core businesses. Additionally, we achieved 9% of risk-adjusted revenues from our innovation portfolio this quarter, advancing toward our 10% target by the end of this year. We have seen an acceleration of credit demand across our main lending segments. In the first quarter, loan growth was robust in DCP and Ibanco. We expect retail segments and microfinance to accelerate in the coming quarters. Risk-adjusted NIM strengthened sequentially, supported by improved asset quality and a resilient underlying NIM. as our loan portfolio expanded and funding mix improved. Deposit growth remains strong, reflecting system liquidity and sustained client confidence, while continuous investments in service and digital capabilities deepen our client relationships and drove market share gains in low-cost funding, reaching 41.2% this quarter. Asset quality reflects proactive measures taken since 2023, including tighter origination standards, risk repricing, enhanced loan rescheduling and greater investments in analytics alongside a favorable macro environment. Additionally, our strong solvency has enabled us to increase our dividend to $50 per share while also supporting our plans for sustained long-term growth. Our efficiency ratio is at 45.8% within our guidance range. as strategic investments in innovation and digital capabilities continue to drive the diversified income streams and scalable growth through deeper market penetration. These results underscore the strength of our core operations and our long-term commitment to building a more agile, client-centric and resilient financial platform. Before I turn the call over to Alejandro, I would like to congratulate him on his appointment to lead our microfinance business and Nibanko. These transitions reflect the depth of talent we continue to build across Credit Corp and our disciplined approach to succession planning and leadership development. We are also very pleased that Ignacio Belaunde will assume the CFO role later this year, bringing strong financial and strategic experience to the position. In the meantime, we still have Alejandro with us for one more quarter of earning goals before this transition takes effect. With that, Alejandro, please go ahead.
Thank you, Gianfranco, and good morning, everyone. As Gianfranco mentioned, we deliver remarkable overall operating results, including record high net income, which reflects solid growth in risk-adjusted revenue streams in our business ecosystem. As I discuss the quarter highlights, I will focus on the year-over-year operating trends. Loans measured in quarter-end balances increased 8.2%. This uptake was driven primarily by BCP through both retail and wholesale banking and by Nibanko. Asset quality improved across the board, with credit cards NPL ratio declining to 4.3% for the quarter. This positive trend was driven by higher debt repayments, especially among retail banking clients, supported by ongoing refinements in underwriting standards and collections management and growth in liquidity through pension inflows. In this context, the cost of risk stood at 1.3 percent, bolstered by improvements in payment performance in a more favorable macroeconomic environment and by strengthened risk management. Net interest income increased 10.9 percent, spurred by growth in interest income, driven mainly by loan portfolio expansion, by a contraction in interest expenses as interest rates fell and low-cost deposits continued to gain share to account for 63.9% of the funding base at Porter End. In this context, NIMS stood at 6.6%. Other core income grew 19.5%. Fee income increased 15.6%, boosted by transactional activity at IAPE and DTP. Gains on FX transactions rose 30.6% through higher volumes at DTP. Lastly, the insurance underwriting results fell 9.1% on the back of lower premiums in the P&C business and inflationary pressures on expenses for claims in the life business, which have no impact on the bottom line given that these claims are compensated with inflation-linked financial income. Excluding inflation-based impacts on claims expenses, the underwriting results rose 4% year-over-year, driven mainly by the life business. We delivered 21.1% ROE this quarter, fueled by strong loan growth, strength and asset quality, and diversified income sources, showcasing the success of our decoupling strategy, risk management measures, and investment in digital capabilities. Finally, as Giancranco mentioned, we recently declared a record-high ordinary dividend of 50 solets per share as we moved capital levels closer to target across our subsidiaries. Next slide, please. is expected to have grown close to 3% year-over-year in the first quarter, reflecting solid momentum in the economy despite localized energy disruptions and higher oil prices in March. More importantly, domestic demand is expected to have expanded by more than 5% year-over-year for the sixth consecutive quarter. High-frequency indicators continue to signal broad-based and robust expansion, with several indicators causing double-deed year-over-year growth. For instance, during the first quarter, live vehicle sales led the game, rising by nearly 40%, followed by upticks of nearly 20% in capital goods imports and 14% for cement consumption. Historic high terms of trade and ongoing business cycle momentum remain the key drivers of this performance. While higher oil prices introduce uncertainty, Peru is less vulnerable than other peers of the region given its lesser net importer position. Another source of uncertainty going forward will be the impact of an El Niño event. So far, this has been felt in the first and shortly finishing season, but it is still early to tell how it will develop going forward. Also, as Gianfranco mentioned, while the presidential elections may generate some near-term uncertainty, the broader institutional framework, including the role of the Senate, should help limit the scope of abrupt changes and provide a measure of stability. Next slide, please. The Federal Reserve has maintained its policy rate since December, as it continues to assess incoming economic data and determine how rising oil prices impact inflation and employment. In Peru, annual inflation rose to 4% year-over-year in April, its highest level in more than two years, reflecting primarily higher local transportation prices. The central bank has indicated that inflation is expected to return to the target range within the forecast horizon and converge to 2% next year, as the effects of these shocks gradually dissipate. In Colombia, annual inflation accelerated to 5.6% in March, viewing in part by a 23% minimum wage increase rolled at the beginning of 2026. To contain inflation expectations, the central bank has increased its rate by 200 basis points since December. Presidential elections will be held in two weeks, and polls suggest a runoff is likely in June. In Chile, investment sentiment improved after President Castro's election, although recent gasoline price increases have tempered the outlook. Anglication reached 4% in April, and the central bank has held the policy rate at 4.5%. Next slide, please. BTP's profitability posted a solid start to the year, supported by loan growth under disciplined risk management and diversified sources of revenue. In this context, ROE stood at 30.5%. On a year-over-year basis, total loans measured in end-of-period balances rose 7.3%. In effect, usual terms, loan growth stood at 9.1%, driven by both wholesale and retail banking. Notably, disbursements of long-term wholesale loans were buoyed by a favorable outlook for private investment. In retail banking, loan growth accelerated mainly in individuals, reflecting an increase in our risk capital for consumer loans and an uptick in mortgage loan disbursements, which rose on the back of lower interest rates. S&P loan disbursements were also boosted by an increase in our risk appetite. NIM rose 21 basis points to stand at 6%, mainly due to a decrease in the funding cost, while the yield on interest-turning assets remained resilient in an environment of lower interest rates. MPL volumes declined 11.1%, mainly due to debt cancellations by SME PME clients under judicial recovery and secondarily by debt repayments from individuals who availed of funds from pension fund withdrawals. Improvements in the quality of origination and in collections management also contributed to the result. Provisions held 35.1%, driven mainly by retail banking, which was positively impacted by improvement in payment performance across earlier vintages in consumer and credit card loans and by reversals in wholesale banking after a corporate client regularizes refinance exposure in this scenario the cost of risk decreased to 0.8 percent while risk adjusted meme stood at a record high of 5.5 percent higher core income rose 18.7 percent driven mainly by an increasing fee income where some transactional activity was channeled through yape and other transactional products at BCP. A secondary driver was growth in gains on FX transactions, which was fueled mainly by retail clients served through digital channels. Variations in volumes reflect volatility related to pensions in the Middle East and the electoral calendar. Although the ratio of other core income to assets stabilized this quarter due to asset growth, the contribution of free income plus net gain from FX transactions reached its highest level since 2022, reflecting in the strength of our diversified sources of revenue. Operating expenses rose 15.1%, mainly due to an uptick in administrative expenses. This evolution was driven primarily by Yappe's use of cloud infrastructure and IT-related services, and secondarily by marketing and consulting expenses in the traditional business. Our personnel expenses rose this quarter as we ramped up core business projects to develop commercial and technological capabilities. In this context, operating expenses and personal expenses in particular led the efficiency ratio to stand up 38.6%. Next slide, please. With 16.4 million monthly active users, Jape continues to expand its small base while shifting its focus towards deeper engagement and monetization. Reaching approximately 82% of Peru's economic reactive population, the platform has achieved nationwide scale. At this level of penetration, incremental growth is driven by higher recurrence, broader multi-product adoption, and monetization of an already large installed base, positioning YAPE to continue cutting into cash's share of payment. The platform's positive evolution into a super app is respected in its engagement metrics. Users transact 67 times per month, supported by consistently strong customer satisfaction with an MPS of 77. This deeper engagement translates into unique economics, with revenue per MAU increasing 65% year-over-year to 10.3 soles, widely surpassing growth in expenses per MAU, which rose 26% to 5.9 soles. This proves that operating leverage is on the right, consistent with YAPE's asset-like and scalable model. Payments account for 47% of total revenues, while also serving as a core engine for data generation and cross-selling. Revenue-generating total payment volume grew 80% year-over-year, reinforcing YAPE's position of Peru's leading digital payment network. Lending revenue grew 3.6 times year-over-year, positioning as the platform's fastest-growing vertical. In the first quarter of 2026, more than 5.7 million loans were dispersed, leveraging proprietary data, digital underwriting, and distribution to serve the underbanked. With credit penetration at approximately 30% of mouse, there's still significant upside to accelerate adoption. IAPE has the potential to significantly scale its contributions to Credit Corp over time. As of the first quarter, the IAPE represented 17% of the group's fee income and 8% of the group's risk-adjusted revenues year-over-year, up from 12% and 5% respectively. Next slide, please. As Peru's microfinance system continues to gain traction amid a more dynamic economic backdrop, its performance has followed an upward trend. In this context, MiBanco has performed its peers by strengthening its transactional value proposition, gaining productivity, and strengthening credit risk management. As a result, MiBanco sustained double-digit loan growth and robust profitability of 21.7% this quarter. From a year-over-year perspective, loans measured in counter-order end balances grew 12.4%, riding an up swing in loan disbursement, which hit a new all-time high in March. The NPL ratio continued with a downward trajectory that began last year, falling to 4.9%, an all-time low. A rapid pricing management, coupled with a decrease in the cost of funding, boosted me, which stood at a strong 14.9%. The cost of risk fell 29 basis points off the back of lower risk vintages, which currently account for 88% of total loan. While the cost of risk remains low this quarter, we anticipate some gradual normalization in the second half of 2026, as we incorporate newer and smaller customer segments to bolster portfolio growth, while remaining comfortably within our risk appetite. In parallel, risk-adjusted means stood at 11.3%, slightly below the 4-year high achieved last quarter. Operating expenses increased due to higher administrative expenses related to ongoing investments in strategic projects, primarily linked to digital transformation initiatives to modernize our technological architecture and improve client experience. Efficiency improved despite these investments and stood at 49.2% at quarter-end. Bibanco Colombia's results continue to rise and raise their double-digit loan growth both quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year, bolstered by control risk management and improving productivity. Consequently, profitability is stood at 18.3% at quarter-end, which represents a sizable improvement over the single-digit levels reported at the same time last year. Next slide, please. Grupo Pacifico delivered solid underlying results in the first quarter, with ROE of 18.9% for the quarter. Organic net income grew 11% year-over-year, driven mainly by the live business and partially obsessed by the PNC business. In our live business, commercial execution was strong, supported by growth in our bank assurance channels and an apt-tick in issuances of optional policies in retail segments, both consistent with our strategy to deepen penetration in high-value customer segments. The net loss on securities dropped this quarter, reflecting a base effect generated by credit downgrades on a couple of assets in the investment portfolio in the first quarter of last year. In our P&C business, net income fell. This evolution was fueled primarily by a drop in premiums in the corporate segment and, secondarily, by an uptick in claims in the personal and medical assistance lines. In addition to organic growth, our net income accelerated year-over-year following the consolidation of Pacifico Salute, which includes medical assistance, corporate health insurance, and medical services. These businesses continue to advance through solid commercial dynamics and discipline cost management, which bolsters our confidence in Pacifico Salute's long-term earnings contribution. If we include the full consolidation of Pacifico Salute's operations in Grupo Pacifico Results, consolidated net income rose 19% year-over-year. Next slide, please. The OE for our investment management and advisory business stood at 15.7% in the first quarter. Let me give you a brief overview of this quarter's year-over-year dynamics and underlying structural trends. Quarterly results showed mixed dynamics. Revenues benefited from stronger performance in our wealth and asset management businesses, with AUMs expanding by 28% and 34% respectively. Our capital market line also evolved favorably, in line with market conditions. These favorable business dynamics were partially upset by an increase in operating expenses, which was mainly attributable to a particularly low comparative base in the first quarter of 2025. In this context, net income fell 8% over the period. Next slide, please. Now I would like to review Credit Corp's consolidated evolution. Its inter-returning assets rose sequentially, driven mainly by growth in investment balances as we took advantage of tactical opportunities to capitalize on our cash position. Loan growth, fueled by BCP, also contributed to the uptick in interest-earning assets, albeit to a lesser extent. On the liability side, low-cost deposits posted an increase thanks to our solid transactional offering and inflows from pension fund withdrawals. Structural balance trends are better explained on a year-over-year basis. Loan growth, which was driven mainly by BCP and Ivanko, led the interest-earning asset mix to generate higher yields despite cash build-up. In this context, the yield on interest-earning assets rose 10 basis points year over year. On the liability side, lower interest rates, along with an increase in the share of low-cost deposits, resulted in a 31 basis point decrease in the funding costs over the same period. In this context, NIM stood at 6.6% for the quarter. Next slide, please. Moving on to loan portfolio quality. Asset quality continued to improve this quarter as NPL volumes contracted across segments. The NPL ratio at quarter-end was 4.3%, which is below the levels reported prior to the 2023 recession. Provisions dropped over the last 12 months, buoyed by steady economic recovery, which strengthened repayment dynamics, and by effective risk management at both BCP and MiBanco. In this context, the NPL coverage ratio rose and stood at 113.8%. Going forward, we will continue to accelerate retail origination while maintaining a disciplined approach to risk. We expect long growth to maintain dynamism. The cost of risk, in turn, is expected to increase modestly but remain within our risk Next slide, please. Core income reached new record levels, supported by this quarter's operating momentum across core businesses, which was driven by long growth in higher yield segments, a drop in the funding cost, and an upward trajectory for transactional activity. On a yearly basis, 13.3% growth in core income was driven by diverse revenue streams with net interest income, fees, and effect gains, reporting double-digit gains. Net interest income grew 10.9%, benefiting from sustained growth in our local deposit base and resilient asset yields. Pee income, in turn, rose 15.6% on the back of dynamism in bank assurance, payments, and transactional services, while the 30.6% tap-seeking effect gains was supported by higher transactional volumes and disciplined pricing. Profitability metrics continue to strengthen, with risk-adjusted mean trending upward to 5.81%, reflecting improved pricing, portfolio mix optimization, and effective risk management. The efficiency ratio for the year stood within guidance at 45.8%. Operating expenses grew 13.1%, fueled primarily by core businesses at BCP and investments in our innovation portfolio. Growth in core expenses at BCP was driven mainly by IT expenses for commercial and transactional capability development. Expenses for our innovation portfolio, which were led by Yaffe, Tempo, and Kulki, rose 40% and represented 84% of disruptive expenses for the quarter. Next slide, please. For the quarter was 21.1%, supported by solid business performance and a favorable economic backdrop. Net income reached a record high once again. We achieved this by capitalizing on our structural strengths, our differentiated digital and transactional capabilities, low funding cost advantage, loan portfolio growth, particularly in retail segments, and sustained improvements in risk management. Now I will move on to our guidance. Next slide, please. Our expectation for Peru's GDP growth stands at around 3.5% in 2026, though we recognize that risks to this outlook are tilted to the downside. We expect our total loan book to grow around 8.5% measured in quarter imbalances, or around 10.5% on an FX-neutral basis. Amid a dynamic economic backdrop and strengthened origination levels, we expect growth in balances to continue accelerating over the remainder of the year, driven primarily by retail banking at DCP and by Milango. The acceleration anticipated for loan growth and the shift in the mix towards retail should support NIM, which we expect to stand between 6.4% and 6.7%. This quarter's cost of risk was below expectations. We anticipate that retail origination will continue to increase. As a result, the cost of risk is expected to approach the lower end of our guidance range and our risk-adjusted means is expected to remain within guidance. On the efficiency front, we maintain our guidance range for 2026. Turning to non-interest income, as we mentioned in our previous earnings call, we continue to expect fee income to grow in the low double digits this year, driven by an ongoing uptick in economic activity and in the diversification of our income sources. On the insurance side, our underlying insurance business is expected to continue performing However, the insurance underwriting result, which was lost by extraordinary reversals for the DNS business in 2025, is expected to drop by high single digits. Excluding the DNS business, the result is contract to deliver high single digit growth. Although we are reaffirming our ROE guidance of around 19.5% for 2026, the strength of our first quarter performance and the ongoing positive trends suggest that we are well positioned to achieve results on the upper side of this level. We remain prudent in the face of global and local uncertainties, but our outlook reflects confidence in our ability to deliver strong value for shareholders. With this comment, I would like to open the Q&A session.
Thank you. We will now begin the Q&A session. If you would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star than one on your telephone keypad. If you have connected to the call using the HD web phone on your computer, please use the keypad on your computer screen. If you are using a speakerphone, please make sure your mute function is turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment. We will pause for just a moment to allow everyone the opportunity for questions. We ask that you please only ask one question at a time. after each question has been addressed by our speakers you will then be allowed to ask as many follow-ups as needed but again please only ask one question at a time thank you our first question comes from Ernesto Garlando with Bank of America please go ahead thank you hi good morning Gianfranco Alejandro Cesar Francesca and Milagros Alejandro best of luck in your new position and Ignacio wishing you the same.
Congrats on your record high results. My first question is whether you could provide some color in the presidential election and the potential impact of El Niño. Regarding the election, with almost 100% of the votes counted, and as you mentioned in your remarks, the second round appears likely to be between Fujimori and Sanchez. um could you share any insights on potential alliances or support these candidates may receive from other potential contenders that are not passing to the second round and on el nino expectations are currently pointing to a strong event a super nino is being ruled out for now but based on your experience with this type of weather phenomenon? How likely is that this outlook change throughout the year? And in case of a stronger Niño, what measures would you expect to evaluate or implement? Thank you.
Good morning, Ernesto. This is Gianfranco. Thank you for your words. Let me take the political question and then I'll ask Cesar and Alejandro if you want to comment on the El Niño, which by the way, there are actually two El Niños, as we speak, two El Niño effects as we speak. Yeah, you're right. Officially, there's no official results, so we do not know who the two candidates that are going to go to the ballotage or the runoff, but yes, we're close to 100%, so the probability of Pukimoria and Sanchez going to the second round is very high. regarding your question on alliances and so on there's nothing material as we speak but on top of that also bear in mind that the endorsement power that there is in Peru is quite limited so we'll have to see what happens going on actually the only poll that was published or that is public after the first round is that they're basically when I say they Mrs. Fujimori and Mr. Sanchez are basically tied so with that I will ask Cesar to go with the comments on El Nino please.
Gianfranco. Hi Ernesto. Regarding El Nino I think first is important to clarify that we deal with two different phenomena the cost and El Nino that we are already in a Niño phenomenon at this point. I am going to detail a little bit more. And the second one that probably is the more global awareness is the Central Pacific Niño. They are two different phenomenons. Depending on the period of the year, this can affect Peru differently and particularly are dangerous when the confluence of these phenomenon coincide with the summer. Even say that, regarding the local El Niño, we are already in a low moderate effect at this point. It has already affected the fission season, has been temporarily halted after only one-fourth of the usual harvest volume expected for this year, so these effects are already impacting the economy. And we are also closely monitoring the effects at this point in the agricultural sector. Usually the impact is diminished, the level of productivity. But in some cases, it's also compensated by higher prices. So we are in the point that while we are closely monitoring, we are still not changing our credit policy. And probably around September, we are going to have much clearer indication of the real impact. And in this point, we should start taking measures considering not only this already mentioned in effect, but heavy rains in the north part of the city. So in our expectations, we are already considering this moderate impact and closely monitoring potential higher impact for the last part of the year.
I don't know if this helps. yes thank you very much and yes sorry hi this is Alejandro thanks thanks for your words I was I just wanted to give you a little bit more color or numerical color on the impact of El Niño over time in 1998 we had what is considered an extraordinary El Niño and the impact on GDP in Peru was 1.7 percent the The moderate El Nino of 2017 was 0.8, and the strong El Nino of 2023 was 1.1 percent. So, depending, and going back to Cesar's comments, it's still very early to know what kind of El Nino we'll get, depending on the summer and the conflict of both, the El Nino concerned on the low El Nino, whether it's going to be moderate or strong, we're going I'll see the impacts around 1% of GDP of Peru if it were to materialize.
Great. That's super helpful. Good caller. And then just my second question is related to asset quality. The cost to risk has become very well below your guidance.
So just wondering whether there are potential downside risks or is still early to assess that considering that we need to wait for the outcome of the presidential election and to evaluate the impact of herniño yes thank you I would like to highlight two different behaviors in our portfolio let's say the banco as Alejandro has mentioned has had a very good performance but but not a dramatical change recently as you can see in the recent evolution and these numbers reflect improved risk performance because at the same time that we are decreasing the cost of risk, we are increasing our exposure in low segment tickets, particularly below 5,000 sold. So a good performance but not a dramatical change on the quarter. In the case of DCP, you can see a significant change on the quarter and I would like to two different kinds of effects. One is a more structural effect, that is the combination of the origination and the measures that we have taken recently that has improved the quality of risk segment by segment, and we are reaping the benefits of these measures taken. And additionally, we are starting to see also the contribution, the increased contribution of more provisions of the new origination in higher yielding segments that has been announced the last quarter of last year and this first quarter as you have seen in our figures. That's a structural and segment by segment we are still seeing an improvement but it's not a dramatical improvement. But the effect that has been changing recently has been some one-off effect that has impacted the quarter in particular. We have an unusually high, as a product of the boom in the mining sector, of the profit sharing. So this profit sharing has improved the one-off payment capacity of the middle segment that was the focus of our nation in the last two years. So good payment, additional payment from this source. They liberate the funds from the pension funds that have improved also in the same segment. And on top of that, a combination of payments in the wholesale portfolio. In contrast with the last quarter in which we have additional provision for a number of constructor-related segment clients, in this quarter we have a liberation of provision. So you have good underlying behavior in BCP with a slight decrease of the cost of risk, gradually increasing as we shift the portfolio, but the combination of three very point-in-time effects in the quarter that I would say exacerbates the decrease of the cost of risk. As we start to regenerate faster and faster in higher yield segments, we are going to increase the cost of risk towards the expected range that Alejandro has shared and our expectation is to be with the information that we have in the lower range of this guidance.
Super careful, Cesar. Thank you very much.
The next question comes from Brian Flores with Citi.
Please go ahead. hi team thank you for for the opportunity to to ask questions and i have a one quick question or sorry a follow-up on Ernesto's question regarding asset quality so is it fair to say that these maybe extraordinary cost of risk that we have seen is allowing you to maybe allocate a bit more capital on as you mentioned higher yielding credit and we should see this maybe during this year. And then maybe my question is on your ROE guidance. I think you mentioned that maybe you could be on the upper side given the trends that you're using. And I think maybe cost of risk is perhaps the one that is allowing you to already be mentioning this.
So I just wanted to see if besides cost of risk, you see also another of these key variables, maybe efficiency and allowing you to be on the upper side of the range as you were mentioning thank you good morning Brian let me let me provide up a more let's say long-term vision regarding the question the cost of risk and then I'll ask both Cesar and Alejandro to to to both the cost of risk and the ROE first First of all, we do not manage the company by only taking a look at cost of risk, but most importantly, by taking a look at risk-adjusted NIM. So what we've been providing, I believe Alejandro mentioned it when he commented about guidance, is that we do expect risk-adjusted NIM to increase, even though we expect cost of risk at the same time to increase. And the main reason is because the retail portfolio and mostly microfinance and the YAPA lending book are going to grow at a much faster pace. We are not, having said that, we're not making decisions based on a short-term cost-of-risk results but on a much more longer and structural vision regarding the opportunities we see mostly, again, in the retail portfolio in the underbank and the unbanked and leveraging a lot on the data we've been gathering over the last actually 10 years through YAPE and other digital channels. And maybe I'll end up with a comment on guidance on ROE. It's not only a matter of cost of risk, and, well, the first quarter has been over 20% already. The economy in Peru is really performing quite well. Therefore, we have a lot of tailwinds. So it's not only a matter of what we're doing as a company, but also the environment is quite good. I don't know if Cesar and Alejandro would like to add something in that sense.
I think Gianfranco has explained perfectly our general approach. And I would say if we are taking confidence to increase our risk-taking, is because segment by segment we are having the results within our expectation or slightly better. That's what gives us confidence to continue growing and accelerating risk taking in higher yield, higher risk segment. The temporary effects were exactly that. Temporary effects that are very welcome but our strategy continues to perform based on the capabilities that we are building and the results that we are monitoring and adjusting.
Hi, Brian. This is Alejandro. I'm going to add up something on the ROE guidance. We haven't changed the guidance, which is around 19.5%, but as I mentioned in my remarks, we are expecting to be on the upper side of that number given what we've already seen this first quarter, and we have ROE above 20%, and the trend of the economy. Having said that, But there are, of course, some important events that we need to monitor that might have an impact, like the election and the El Nino that we were already discussing. But we believe that given the strength of the economy, given all the things that we've been developing both in risk management, transactional capabilities, et cetera, and what we see, we should be able to be on the upper side of the 19 and a half for this year going forward. and again it's not just cost of risk there's also the long growth that we're expecting that can be um a little bit stronger uh and hence the and then you have the risk adjusted name that Gianfranco mentioned uh probably being uh strong for the year and all those fears together will probably allow us to be above the 90 and a half but again we are at a moment in the year where we've seen an amazing first four months because April has also been very strong in the economy, but we are about to choose a new president, and there's this El Nino effect going on, so that's the reason why we want to remain prudent as of now.
No, very clear, Tim. I appreciate just, if I understood correctly, given the improvement in marginal ROE, your priority in capital allocation, if I understand correctly, should be reinvestment in growing rights rather than extraordinary evidence all of that because i think the unit economics are are healthier right sure i mean the priority is definitely uh growth and we believe there's a big opportunity in many of the segments that we serve perfect thank you the next question comes from tiago batista with ubsbb please go ahead hi guys uh my pleasure for the results
very strong numbers can you give me some indication about the performance of YAPI in Bolivia and also if you believe this platform can be implemented in other places let's say Chile for instance so those two points how YAPI is performing in Bolivia and it's possible to see a kind of international internationalization of YAPI. Francesca could you answer that please?
Thank you, Tiago, for the question. Cape Bolivia has been growing at a steady pace. I would say that last year it accelerated growth, reaching over 2 million customers for a smaller country that is Bolivia. But bear in mind that Bolivia had a different starting point as a group. It had an interoperable system in place. So it's a different model that we have been successful to gain market and to be the leader in the market. Having said that, we have a very solid competitor that is close by. So at a transactional pace, we are growing different, again, than Peru. More than just P2P transactions, there's a lot of P2M transactions. So it's a merchant driving system. And we are following the path similar to Peru in the monetization piece, which is putting a lot of services around utility payments and so forth and digitizing payments as a whole, and then gaining a lot of information to go to value-added services around lending and other products. So Bolivia is performing good. We've worked a lot around technology as well. As you know, we have a bank there, and we began that process with their technology. And that brings me to the next comment around the internationalization. So Chile, for sure, with Tempo as a new bank there, as Yantran Comments and leveraging capabilities, and there is a cash-based economy in Chile as well that we're, of course, looking at. But the technological piece, I think, is super important, and IAPE has been working around creating a platform that is much more exportable.
Maybe, Tiago, just to complement Francesca's answer, we announced that on April 1st, we created the new banking unit under Raimundo Morales, the current CEO of IAPE, IAPE Peru, I mean, And under that unit, Yape Peru, Yape Bolivia, EO, and Tempo are going to be operating. The logic, part of the logic, well, most of the logic is to leverage on tech capabilities, knowledge of the markets, and so on. And part of the logic is what you just said. Are there any possibilities to grow elsewhere?
No, very clear.
Thanks for the answers.
The next question comes from Renato Meloni with Autonomous Research. Please go ahead.
Hi, everyone. Congrats on the results. My question is on growth. You had been mentioning earlier that here there is expected retail growth to remain solid, but this quarter we saw a nice pickup on wholesale lending. So I wonder if we could explain a bit the drivers for that if you expect this to continue, and then you can see some upside to the wrong growth pilots.
Good morning, Renato. Thank you for your words. And regarding your question on the wholesale growth, and please, after anyone could help me in that sense, but what we've been seeing, so let me go a step back. If you were to look at our book in the last, I don't know, five years, it's been basically slattish, and mostly in the corporate world or in the wholesale world because I would say that Peru has gone through the perfect storm over the last five years COVID then I don't know six presidents in five years or whatever lack of stability and so on and therefore private investment in general and this was across industries really stalled we started to see and I believe we commented last quarter, private investment grew double digits. I believe it was 11% last year. And that has kept, that pace has, so private investment has been, has kept its pace this quarter, the last quarter, sorry. And what has happened on the other hand is that the domestic demand as Alejandro mentioned has been growing between 4 to 5% consistently over the last, I believe is six quarters. So across industries there are companies that are operating at full capacity, so that's the main reason for loan growth in the wholesale portfolio.
But if you also consider this wholesale economic background that you've mentioned, don't you think that the 8.5% loan growth guidance for the year might be a bit too conservative?
Could be, yes, but again, on the other hand, you're right, on the other hand, the uncertainty that we mentioned at the beginning regarding global uncertainty, definitely all prices are going to – Peru is a net importer, so all prices could hit the economy and the uncertainty because of the elections and we're going by basically to a somehow a binary scenario would have been some slowdown in that sense and we will have much more clarity much more clarity after the second round thank you the next question
comes from Lindsay Shema with Goldman Sachs please go ahead good morning congrats on the results and thank you for taking my question first on deposits we saw a really favorable improvement in deposit mix which was partially attributed to deposits from the pension fund withdrawal first off how much would you attribute to pension fund withdrawal deposits I know the last time we had talked it was running pretty strong and you captured a good percentage of the liquidity into the system and then also how sticky would you consider those deposits is it something that we can expect as kind of a tailwind going forward and then i have
a second question but i'll ask after that sure thank you lindsey yeah alejandro can you take that one sure uh hi lindsey so uh yeah we did capture an important part of the withdrawal of the pension plan, but it's money that starts to get used and reduces over the following months. I would say that of the growth that we've seen in our deposit base, around half of it has been related to the pension fund withdrawals. The other half of it is our transactional capabilities and people operating and our and people operating in our system, in an economy that is slowly turning more and more less cash-driven, so the money remains in the accounts. So I think there's a structural reason why we've been growing steadily on that side, plus there's also this pension plan withdrawal that we should see decrease during this year and probably basically disappear. And it's also related to the prior question, it's also part of some of the retail repayments that we've seen. You know, people use that money to repay retail and have an impact on the retail growth in the first quarter. But I would say again, half and half between pension fund withdrawals and more structural Female Speaker 1 Thank you, Alejandro.
That was very clear. And then my second question is just on operating leverage and expenses at IAPE. I mean, saw a pretty solid increase in operating leverage. How much of that was kind of just seasonality and expenses? How much is sustainable, especially with this new digital bank initiative? And then you mentioned that you could see some material impacts from that. Is that on the expense side? Is that on revenue growth? Because you were talking about going into different markets, expanding on that end. Just kind of what are the impacts there? Thank you.
Francesca, can you take that one or Alejandro, whoever?
Yes. So, for sure, there's a functionality in the end of the year and also the elections. IAPE has been very active in the branding, proficient in around a long-term view for growth for the country. So, that's one part of the functionality. But you're spot on in terms of there's still a lot of technological capability investment being built in IAPE around lending, around distribution, around the internationalization of the platform. So we're very mindful of the expenses. So they are not exceeding our expectations in terms of what we are planning for growth or for revenue and cost as well. So I would say under control that there are still investments to be done.
And maybe complementing that, Lindsay, how we see this as far as income grows at a faster pace than expenses, we're okay. We really believe that YAPE in two, three years should be operating at a much lower cost to income, which is what we care about it. And we'll have also an impact. Actually, it's a double impact. So the cost to income will be lower YAPA will be a much more relevant business within Credit Corp, therefore the positive impact in cost to income overall.
Okay. Very clear. Thank you so much.
The next question comes from Carlos Gómez-López with HSBC. Please go ahead.
Let me join in the congratulations to Alejandro. I'll be here for a short time. but congratulations and in particular for the increase in the margin you know we were going to go up we said it would not but so congratulations on that my question would be again on the asset quality and the cost of risk which is lower this time um could you please quantify what those recoveries in the corporate portfolio would be like i mean when i look at the numbers Because I guess your number is 120, 140 million lower than what we have expected. How much did you recover? Is that 40, 50, 60, 50, 25 amount?
Cesar?
Carlos, thank you. In a usual month at NPCP, you have a cost of risk of wholesale between 0.1%, 0.2%. The last quarter of last year was unusually high at 0.5, and in this quarter was minus 0.1. So you can say between 20 and maximum 30 basis points impact as a difference between what is usual. In relation to the last quarter, it's very significant, but the last quarter of last year was unusually high for the special cases that I previously described.
So 20 or 30 points on the wholesale portfolio. And if I can ask a question on Yape, we understand that the central bank is bringing in UPI, could you tell us what impacts positive or negative that might have on your business?
Fran, can you take that one, please?
Yes, Carlo. So, definitely, there's two views or two dimensions around the UPI. So, we do believe that there's still an opportunity to capture cash. Here, Peru is a cash-based economy, so there is potential to grow in transactions. And having said that, of course, there's going to be other players new entrants in this payment ecosystem. But if you look at YAPE's results and YAPE's plans over time of being a super app and now a neo-bank, we have consistently been able to cross out more products. We're almost reaching three features, productive users in YAPE, different features, not just payments, but whether it's utilities or lending. So it gives us an opportunity to tap into a bigger market. and this is the view we're having and we're participating aggressively with the central government.
And the project could be another payment network or you would join the payment network or you would be connected?
No, we will definitely be connected so this is a completely interoperable system and we could have our own closed loop for our own transactions wherever we want, we believe this is better, whether it's a UX experience or whether, of course, if it's a cost issue, but it makes the market bigger because it becomes, everything becomes interoperable.
Thank you so much.
The next question comes from Andres Soto with Santander. Please go ahead.
Good morning, and thank you for the presentation. My question also is around the time around in terms of the contribution to Credit Corp. When I look at the contribution to revenue, it's already at 8% for the quarter. Contribution to EBD is at 7%. So I have three separate questions around these numbers. The first one is, previously you have mentioned that you expected disruptive initiatives to represent 10% of credit core revenue. YAPE alone is already almost at that level. So what will be your new target for your disruptive initiatives in terms of the revenue contribution to credit core?
Good morning, Andres. Great question. All yours, Francesca.
So, initially, we've shared many times with you in the investor days and the digital conversations we've been having. We set ourselves our target four years ago to represent 10% of risk-adjusted income for credit cards. We're very happy, of course, as you mentioned, that IAPE is one of the big ones. and our initial expectation was once these initiatives got into specific growth, they would graduate into more mature businesses. In the case of IAPE, what we are seeing is that it's still offering growth at a much faster pace than businesses that are more incumbent. So we are actually today working around what the new North metric of that would be. And as you know, we're going to set aggressive metrics in terms of the contribution of the initiatives. Having said that, we're also beginning to see relevant contributions. Of course, they're smaller around Kulki, around other initiatives at Warda, what we've mentioned before. and we are currently reviewing to set a new appetite for the next four years or three years.
Thank you, Francesca. And the metric will be still around revenue because for JAPE specifically, the number for contribution to profitability is almost the same as for revenue. So in my numbers, I have that YAPE who represents as much as 30% of earnings of credit card by 2028. And do you see any reasons for that not to happen? Or in terms of how you measure your digital appetite, will be still revenue, the relevant metric, or you will start looking at profitability?
So we're actually going to look at two things, no? One is the portfolio for disruptive initiatives. We think revenue is still the correct metric. And as you remember, we also set limits in terms of investments around ROE and around cost to income, which is something that we are constantly looking at and reviewing. But once we have a venture that is profitable, of course, we're going to set profitability indicators as well. And once we have this much clearer, we'll share what initiatives actually contribute to the limits of whether it's ROE or cost to income or the amount of cash expenditures. And ones that need still time to mature where revenue adjusted income is the right metric. So this is a work in progress and we will have this clear for the next two months or three months.
Exactly. Just to compliment Francesca, Andres, and I don't remember if I said goodbye at the beginning, goodbye, good morning, Andres. We're exactly in that process. When we said that goal was two or three years ago, there was a lot of uncertainty because these are disruptive initiatives. As we all know, IAPE has been quite a success. is, I would say, much more advanced in terms of results than what we originally expected, in terms of size of the results and timing of the results, and we're exactly in that Should we start measuring and providing something different to the market, and that's the process. we hope that by next quarter we will share that with you. Just a quick comment, we do expect this year that the overall disruptive initiatives ROE are going to be accretive to Credit Corp's ROE.
Perfect. And on that note, Gianfranco, to setting new targets, I think that the Another new target that we need to hear from you is regarding the overall medium-term target for credit card as a whole. In my numbers, if Jape is bound to represent, as I said, 30% of earnings, that will imply that credit card barrow by 2028 is going to be 25%, so the 19.5% is extremely, extremely conservative. Exactly.
I'm taking notes as to set goals for the team. No, jokes aside, remember last call that when we provided the guidance, actually Alejandro provided the guidance, he said, which is all of us, that by next call after the results of the elections, depending on the results, we may provide what we call a sustainable ROE that might be north of 20. So let's wait. We're three, four months away from that, and let's see what happens. And at the same time, we're working on what Francesca just mentioned.
Sounds good. Looking forward to it. Thank you Gianfranco and Francesca, and congratulations to Alejandro and his new responsibilities. Thank you.
The next question comes from Yuri Fernandez with J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.
Good morning. Hi, Gianfranco, Alejandro, Cesar, Francesca, Milagros. Congrats, Inacio and also Alejandro. So, repeating the words of everybody here. I'm going to miss you, Alejandro. So, just a follow-up on trying to match two different questions on the call. margins and cost of risk for the guidance on risk adjusted, right? So what I understood from the call is cost of risk was low on wholesale and other seasonality and you're growing, so cost of risk should move up, but you feel very comfortable with asset quality. But margins, the funding question, I think it's good, right? You have a very good funding. I think that helps. And on the asset mix, this quarter, another question was wholesale, right? You're growing more on wholesale after years of not growing, and now it's going to be coming from retail. So the way I see here is there is upside risk for your margins, and correct me if you disagree, but cost of risk should also move up. Thinking those things together, Gianfranco, do you believe you can continue to have your risk adjusted mean above the guidance, as you are seeing here? because, again, as it's quite anything good, means could have an upside. So just trying to understand if the guidance for risk-adjusted margins could be a little bit better, you know, or at least to stay on the high level that we are seeing this quarter. Thank you.
Good morning, Yuri. Yes, again, if there wasn't this uncertainty, global uncertainty on the political situation in Peru, maybe we would have provided a new guidance today so I would be providing a strong yes to you but there are two ifs too many ifs we believe as we speak so everything tells us that your question is totally valid and your hypothesis is correct but we rather wait and see, really. Sorry for being so vague in my response, but that's what we feel today.
No, it helps to understand the potential upside risk, but you are somewhat being conservative given the uncertainties in the center. It helps us here. If I may just... Go ahead, sir.
Sorry, this is Alejandro. No, let me just do, Yuri. So, no, I just wanted to say that your assumption is correct in the sense that given the low cost of risk we're experiencing and the strong NIMS, we should be on the upper side of the risk-adjusted NIMS for the year. You know, but again, as I mentioned, there are a lot of questions still out there, but we believe we can have a risk-adjusted team that continues to improve in the coming quarters.
No, thank you, Alejandro. If I may, just a second one, quick one. Just thinking about the profitability of the subsidiaries, right? that when you go to Credit Corp Capital, Pacifico, Mibanco, well, BCP was amazing this quarter. All the subsidiaries, they are running on levels of ROEs that historically, I believe, is the number that you usually mention. I think maybe Pacifico is a little bit below the 20s, but very close to that. Maybe to Gianfranco, where do you see upside risk on the subsidiaries? Do you think there is room for further improvements on profitability of any of the subsidiaries, or most of your take here is maybe Yachty being the main driver for further profitability improvement for the broker?
Great question, Yuri. And specifically on Pacifico, what we believe, and we've been vocal about it, is that Pacifico over the last couple of years, it's already has been over, I believe, 25. We believe that's not sustainable. What we believe is sustainable is around 20, which is where it is today. About the other subsidiaries, MiBanco is where we want to have it in terms of ROE. Maybe at Cracker Capital there's a potential opportunity to slightly increase ROE, even though we do have opportunities for growth there, so we might be investing a little bit and you're right Jape is going to be a driver for sure but also Beringman as I just mentioned overall disruptive initiatives are being accretive and Jape is the most obvious one but there are others that they're either positive already or less negative and reaching a break even so overall there might be a further positive impact going forward.
No, thank you very much, Gianfranco, and congrats on the execution in all those years.
There appears there are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back over to Mr. Gianfranco Farrai, Chief Executive Officer, for closing remarks.
Thank you. Let me close by putting things in perspective and reflecting on the strengths of our franchise. Grey Corp has been around for over 30 years, and through BCP, we have more than 135 years of experience navigating complex and often volatile environments. Over that time, we've played a key role in supporting Peru's development, consistently working to expand access to financial services and advance the progress of individuals, businesses, and communities. This commitment is deeply connected to our mission of improving life through financial inclusion and it is what has allowed us to build a resilient institution with a truly long-term perspective. Looking ahead, we continue to see compelling opportunities in the region. The external backdrop remains favorable with what could evolve into a new commodities super cycle, and countries such as Peru and Chile particularly well-positioned to benefit. Peru in particular is entering this period with healthy domestic demand, low inflation, and a financial system that remains solid and liquid. These conditions create an important opportunity to accelerate investment, employment, and productivity over the coming years. Credit Corp. is uniquely positioned to capture that opportunity. This quarter is another clear reflection of that position, with record-high results that demonstrate both the consistency and strength of our franchise. At the same time, we have increasing clarity around our strategic priorities and are seeing tangible progress across our key growth anchors, reinforcing our confidence in our ability to sustain performance over the medium term while continuing to support our clients and the broader economy. Before closing, I would like to briefly step back from the short-term political debate. While the leading presidential candidates represent different visions for the country's economic future, we believe Peru's institutional framework and system of checks and balances continue to provide important safeguards for stability and policy continuity. What matters most now is preserving the conditions that allow the country to move forward while continuing to advance key social priorities such as education, healthcare, infrastructure and poverty reduction. Peru has a unique opportunity to achieve a more profound and lasting transformation, and it cannot afford to lose that momentum. Thank you for your time today, and we look forward to speaking with you again next quarter.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes today's presentation. You may now disconnect.