Conference Transcript - BSX 2026-09-10

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

All right. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to day three of the Wells Fargo Health Care Conference. I'm Larry Beigelson, the MedTech Analyst here. And it's my pleasure to host this fireside chat with the management team from Boston Scientific. With us, we have Mike Mahoney, Chairman and CEO, and Dr. Ken Stein, Chief Medical Officer. Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here. Pleasure, Larry. Thanks, Father. I'd be remiss if I didn't say we also have Lauren Tangler, Head of Investor Relations, also with us. So, Mike, let's start with the unfortunate cyber attack. And, you know, hopefully most people saw the update last night, which was very positive. Operations fully restored. Mike, just I think people would love to hear from you, you know, kind of the status update and, you know, the impact. You put out an 8K earlier this week that said you're unlikely to meet the Q3 and the full-year guidance. So how are you thinking about the financial impact and the recovery?

Mike Mahoney, CEO

Yeah, so certainly an unfortunate event. Very proud of what our team has done the past eight days to secure the IT systems globally, to secure distribution, to secure manufacturing. But it was an eight-day impact where we weren't able to ship or manufacture. So I'm obviously disappointed there, but really impressed with what our team did to recover very, very quickly working around the clock over those eight days to ensure that. And also to ensure the integrity of the system with all our third-party suppliers, hospital connectivity, all the EDI capabilities. So it's all back to normal after that. It's fully restored. I was at our distribution center yesterday, and they're cranking through, working very hard, and manufacturing is back up and running. So that's all the really good news. The unfortunate news with the eight-day impact, we did indicate that it's unlikely that we would meet our third quarter in full-year guidance. And a big part of it is we just have to sift through what the recapture rate is. And that's still what we're working through now. We obviously lost procedures that day. some some areas or some regions or some businesses would have adequate supply many didn't hospitals were unsure as we were at the time how long it would be and so some hospitals likely ordered from others during that time which would be understandable so it made sense for us to indicate that in our 8k on the unlikely piece of it but are very impressed with what our team has done to recover and now our focus is on you know working closely with these customers to try to recapture as much as we can but it's hard to pinpoint that exact dollar amount at this point but by the October earnings call October whatever 28th I was certainly be able to give more precise information there was the impact if the impact was broad-based of across Boston scientific any any areas impacted more than others geographies no it's it was All of our plants were shut down and distribution centers were shut down globally.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

And I know it's really early, but implications for 2027, you know, you talked about two to four percent.

Mike Mahoney, CEO

I think the big thing is the whole themes of the business, which we can talk about, are unchanged based on the cyber attack. But we just have to get a better handle on your question on the recapture rate and the financial impact. And we'll know a lot more in the next 45 days. So we'll be able to give a better sense. We won't give our official guide in October. We'll probably provide a better framework for 27 at that time.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

All right, let's move on to the business. I mean, there's a ton of questions I could ask on this cyber attack, but I think there's... It's back to normal. It's good to hear. And, you know, sorry, you guys had to go through that.

Mike Mahoney, CEO

It's unfortunate. it um so i would say on a positive note maybe doesn't help but the industry does help each other out of this one you know there's a lot of competitors that we compete with but we're all kind of under the same uh cyber risk despite all of our great efforts and investments and so a lot of companies uh you know share best practices share information so it's a nice thing to see that's good so we're very thankful for that yep good to hear um so let's touch on watchman or start with Watchman.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

I guess the question really is, the guidance, I think, implies in the U.S., mid to high single-digit year-over-year decline in the second half. You said you expect the market to decline in 27 by a similar amount. I guess so the big picture question is, what needs to happen for the market to grow again, the LAAC market?

Mike Mahoney, CEO

Sure, I'll touch on it. So in 27, We really don't want to call the market improving until we see it improving, kind of based on what's happened this year. And so our aim, obviously, is for the market overall to improve based on the great clinical evidence of Watchman in general and totality, the safety profile, the amount of patients who are unprotected who have AFib. So we think it's going to be a stronger market, but we don't want to call it until we start seeing that improvement. The last eight days haven't helped that visibility, but we'll recapture that. So the big efforts we're doing is first is med affairs and education to our implanters, to our referrers, to the, based on the totality of evidence of champion, because it's a bit, with those three trials that are all at the same time, some kind of conflicting information. So that's a big effort in that area, and Ken can talk more about that. secondly we're putting a lot more dedicated focus uh on the watchman product with our commercial team um sometimes they had shared responsibilities we're allocating more direct allocation of resources to that to deliver that message in the right way in the right level we've increased our dtp our direct to patient activation quite a bit because we've seen a benefit of that and then And hopefully in 2027, based on the champion data, we'll have a label update, which will provide some additional support and confidence in the therapy. It's an amazing therapy. Probably family members in this room have had it. It's safe. It protects patients. Many patients don't want to go stay on oral anticoagulation. It's well proven. And we have a big global opportunity over time if we can unlock that as well. But I don't know, Ken, if you want to add anything.

Ken Stein

Yeah, I mean, I really, just to put a little more color around what Mike said, I just don't want to come back to what the key data point is. And the key data point is, no matter who you ask, it's somewhere between 30% and 40% of high-risk AFib patients in the United States and Western Europe today are left completely unprotected. and there what to be no doubt but that those patients are better off with some kind of protection against stroke and watchman is by far and away the best proved option that there is out there we just need to do a better job of articulating that and and and that's on us I think you know this professional societies sky hrs released a draft guideline update that we see as a positive again you know reinforces the very high weight of evidence now that watchman provides equivalent stroke protection as compared to oral anticoagulation reinforces the notion really you know that that every patient who's high risk at a fib needs to have a conversation with their treating physician are they patients who can't are they patients who won't are they patients who shouldn't take long-term oral anticoagulation and and for those patients right they need to have a educated conversation with their physician is watchman the best option for them on the the label change that you hope comes in 27 what what does that look like versus the label today what what would be a good step forward yeah I again I first just want to reiterate right our view is that the totality of the data and accumulating data around Watchmen do support an update to the label in 2027 and to me right the key is what I just said right that to make it clear that Watchmen ought to be a consideration for every high-risk patient with atrial fibrillation if they can't they won't do they shouldn't take long-term role anticoagulants how is that different from today I think right today there's still a lot of confusion right I mean the label today is for you know patients who have an appropriate medical rationale to seek an alternative to long-term or anticoagulation now and you You know, I almost feel like I'm playing lawyer here and parsing semantics. But I think the issue here is that what that means, you know, is not very clear, both to implanting physicians and to referring physicians. And so there's a tendency here, right, that people believe that means, right, that this is only second-line therapy, that you need to have had a life-threatening bleed on oral anticoagulants before we're going to consider you for this and I think what to us would be a win and us we think is a win that the therapy deserves would be again you know to clarify no that this you know ought to be something that every patient needs to consider and that they need to have a discussion with their treating physician again are they someone who either can't or won't or

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

shouldn't be taking drugs over the long term okay thank you there's a couple other you know cross currents in the market you have a new competitor coming so I mean it sounds like it's safe to say that you think at least in 27 you'll grow below below market I'm sure you're not gonna say hey here's how much share we're gonna lose here's how much below market but you would imagine you would expect to grow below market is that fair yeah with a new new product coming out it's fair to say we'd grow below market in 27 our job is to get the market stronger again that's we are very confident in the data of Watchmen the safety profile the comprehensiveness of our support team and confidence that

Mike Mahoney, CEO

doctors have with it a new product will come out we'll take some share we have like 90% share but our job is to drive the market to be strong healthy again like it used to be and like we aim for it to become and then we'll also we have product reiterations and new platforms coming so we expect to be the very high strong leader in this market for a long time but 27 with a new product coming likely to grow below market and to be fair the first time the competitor came to the market I think investor expert a expectations were for you to lose more share than you did yeah so you definitely retained more share the first time and investors expected and I put myself in that camp okay so

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

congratulations thank you so and then the physician fee is going to be cut again and you've highlighted that this year is a as a factor for you know I think negatively impacting standalone procedures that there's a 20% proposed cut do you think that goes through and does that have an impact on the standalone procedures which have been declining I mean Ken can answer is the physician I think maybe marginally I think most physicians when patients are asking and the right candidate for a watchman, they do the right thing.

Mike Mahoney, CEO

Obviously, you'd like to have more of a tailwind there on physician reimbursement. The hospital reimbursement is quite strong and continues to get strong, so there's a lot of momentum from the hospital to build watchman programs and AFib programs and concomitant programs, add labs, invest in the team, all that kind of stuff. So marginally, it's not a tailwind for sure, but we typically see that most physicians do the right thing and whether it's they read that 50% premium but we typically don't see as the major the major stumbling block has been this confluence of confusion on data I would say and just some of the procedural inefficiencies that we've talked about with concomitant which has been a boom for us but also a bit of a lag in terms of productivity how important it's Mike you talked about getting the market to grow again grow again how important is that label update you know to achieving that or is it more of this the education process around the thing is all that stuff more more data comes out longer-term data on champion that comes out over time more real-world evidence it comes out your mix of concomitant and standalone gets better every quarter that's helpful new platforms help so I think it's really the combination of all those things and And maybe just to add, and again, it helps guideline update.

Ken Stein

And again, we do see the proposed guideline update from HRS and Sky as positive. I think the bigger unlock then would be when CMS revisits national coverage determination. Which is, I think by the time that gets finalized, that's not gonna be something that has any material impact in 27.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

In terms of the data, we had a lot of data come out in the last year, Cologne AF, Ocean, Clojure, and obviously Champion AF. Which data set is having the most impact on the market? I've heard from you maybe Ocean and this ablate and wait. Clojure AF wasn't helpful a week before Champion AF. Which data set, or is it the totality that's causing the issue?

Ken Stein

Yeah, I think it's what you just said. it's it's the totality and it just takes people time to parse you know how do I put all these conflicting pieces of data together so a blatant weight you know by and large right the biggest impact that has on is on patients who were never watching candidates to begin with right the the lower chance ask risk patients But in that sort of chance to ask three category, it's having an impact. Again, closure, I just wish we could get people to get beyond the headline and actually look at the data. Because, again, that failed its endpoint because the rate of complications was an order of magnitude higher than what we see in the U.S. And it was a trial, right, where the minority of devices were Watchman Flex. But even in spite of that, it convincingly showed equivalence in stroke. Again, you know, champion the haters, right, worry about the difference in stroke rate. Again, it's something I don't understand because, you know, the appropriate comparison isn't to the drugs. The appropriate comparison is what would happen to patients if they were getting nothing. And that's why I just keep coming back to, right, I mean, you know, the size of that population that's currently left unprotected, that 30 to 40 percent of high-risk patients, right, I mean, that's the patients who deserve some degree of protection. And that's the population that would, if we unlock it, right, get us back to the level of growth in Walshman we aspire to.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Got it. okay let's transition to EP obviously Dr. Stein will stay involved in this conversation too as its CMO and a trained electrophysiologist you know I guess I guess the question is well there have been questions on the market and I guess let's get that out of the way we've heard you I've heard secondhand you know you've talked about maybe pricing having an impact on the market which has been super robust the growth how are you thinking about the outlook for the market it'll continue to be healthy i i you know it's been hyper growth uh given the conversion of rf to pfa with pricing benefit there and the conversion to pfa has been very rapid in the u.s

Mike Mahoney, CEO

like approaching 90 or so now uh less so in europe less so in asia pack for sure so there's more room to grow on conversion outside the u.s uh in the u.s it's more highly penetrated you know Over time, maybe that additional 10% falls as products get better. So we still think this is going to be a very strong market. Will it grow mid-teens? Not clear. With a lot of competition out there, there will be a bit more pricing pressure likely, and you won't have that adoption curve. But again, I don't think this is a business where electrophysiologists make certain vendor selection. So it's not a price declining in this marketplace. Doctors are still choosing which catheter they want to use, which mapper, which clinical system they want to use. So it's still a very high physician preference item. So I don't think you'll see significant price decay, but likely some pressure on price. So we still think it's going to be a very strong market. Double digits? We believe so.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Mike, you know, I guess I want to ask you a big picture question on EP. You've said, I think, that there was a time when you considered getting out of EP, I believe, and Farah Pulse was obviously a big success. And your strategy has been category leadership across Boston Scientific, which has served you well. When you came into EP with Farah Pulse, you weren't a category leader. Is there any lessons learned here?

Mike Mahoney, CEO

And how do you, you know, what's the path forward for EP? the lesson learned is if you can find a fair pulse you do it because we didn't we had a crappy ep business i'm sorry we had a bad ep business and now we have a strong number two global ep business so if you can find a diamond in the rough like that you do it um and then the same time since we came from such a uh lack of girth in our portfolio our focus 100 is on widening and that portfolio. And so we wouldn't have done it any other way. And now we have a cadence of products that are coming. We all want it faster, you know, from our Ultra product, which will be here this time next year, to entering the ice market, which we're not in, to Flex, and other things that we want to do. So we want to widen, clearly want to widen, just like many of our peers do, our EP offering. And that's the goal.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

And the short-term issue has been your PFA share has eroded faster than you expected you had a super high share you know we estimate maybe now it's about 50% people are trying to figure out where it troughs and we see all the competition coming right I guess are you I don't know if you'll share with us where you think if you can remain the leader where you think it troughs and how are you thinking about these competitive entrants in light of your pipeline Farrowave Ultra and then Faroflex yeah we spent a lot of time on it um so you'll be under called the share erosion or as you know we've talked about that this year um but very proud of what we built and we built that capability

Mike Mahoney, CEO

globally now and so when you're really the relying on for the most part one platform with our opal mapping system which continues to make nice progress we're confident with that there's kind of one way to go with that that share position and despite that uh most more often than not doctors are still choosing Farapulse and the work it does and the safety profile and the efficiency is very well proven out uh so that share will continue to decline a bit until we can widen that portfolio and that happens starts to happen second half 27 with our ultra launch which we think reinforces Ferrapulse as the ideal platform. It'll tie our physicians more closely to the OPAL mapping system, provide them more capabilities. It's a more efficient mapping of late catheter than Ferrapulse is today. And we won't require doctors to use it if they want to use competitive mapping systems. But we think that'll accelerate OPAL adoption. It'll secure the beachhead more for what Ferrapulse has already secured. And then we widen their portfolio with ICE and FLEX. Ferraflex.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Bariflex you just started the IDE it's a little there are competitive entrants coming before that just from a pure timeline standpoint you know I guess maybe the question is you know some of those there's excitement in the clinical community on some of those nano pulse is one of those what's your view on just that kind of that waveform it's different and you know they've been very public, their public company, about partnering, you know, is there an opportunity to partner with them?

Mike Mahoney, CEO

Sure, there's always opportunities to partner with companies. But I think that the key is the market is going to be strong. It may not be a mid-teens, high-teens growth market, but it's going to be strong for a long time. And it's highly competitive, but we have a very, very strong share position and a very robust roadmap. So we're never going to get back to the growth rates that we saw when we launched Verapulse. But at minimum if you can go back to at market and ideally above market with our product launches, you've got a very accretive growth business. And when do you think you can get back there? I mean at market? Well we're aiming with the ultra launch to and the ice launch in the second half of 27 to improve our position.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Okay and the competitive entrance and you're not...

Mike Mahoney, CEO

There's a lot of them. You have to, we obviously factor that in, and that's why I think overall it's a strong, it's a healthy market, and it's competitive, and we have a cadence of launches that aren't too far away, and so as long as that market stays healthy, it'll be a nice, creative driver for us.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Okay, and so you're, sounds like you're satisfied with your internal pipeline, PFA.

Mike Mahoney, CEO

We are very happy with our internal pipeline, but as you know, we're always looking to make ourselves better.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

You've never been shy about, you know, you've been agnostic to technology, internal and external. Okay. Anything else on EP, Dr. Stein, you want to add?

Ken Stein

I mean, I think maybe just to highlight for everyone, you know, there is a very big difference in the dynamics, U.S. versus international. Again, you know, a lot of what we're talking about, right, is U.S. where PFA penetration is mature. where PFA penetration outside is very far from mature, I think that that's a much bigger opportunity for us. And then maybe the only other thing that I think gets back to Mike's comment about ultra and about whether there's price pressure. One of the advantages of catheters like Fairwave Ultra, right, is the ability, again, to do both high-definition mapping and do the ablation so that you don't need to pull a second mapping catheter, which, frankly, right now, more often than not, is a competitive product. And that enables us to maintain premium price for the ablation catheter while hospitals and physicians are able to control the total price of the procedure. And so what happens is the dynamics of just the ablation catheter market growth would get a little bit decoupled from the dynamics of total EP market growth.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Farrowave Ultra, what's the timing on that? I know it's a 27 second half, or what's the U.S. approval timing that you guys have disclosed? Second half. Second half, yeah. Is that right, Lauren? Okay, so there are other parts of Boston Scientific. Mike Penumbra, just an update on the deal timing.

Mike Mahoney, CEO

Yeah, really happy with Adam and the team. They continue to execute really, really well. Nice product approvals that you know about. They've got a very strong pipeline. The benefit, if any, of a delayed closing is you get to know the team really, really well and get comfortable with both sides of it and secure their top leaders. And they continue to drive a lot of good momentum in the marketplace. And so we're very bullish on the transaction. we've learned a lot from history on the best way to integrate them without losing their magic with their commercial team and their R&D team and we feel like we know how to do that and we still aim to close it by the end of the year any update well when would you know if their divestitures are required when will you know well we well we know what's going on but right we well we're aiming to close it by the second half by the end of the year ideally and we'll update you more as we as we progress okay and so if divestitures are required you'll

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

disclose that okay I don't know what we got the time of close okay got it okay and you you have a new product coming that you know could in a big market the seismic IVL for Coronary. How are you thinking about your ability to take share from there's single player there?

Mike Mahoney, CEO

Yeah it's a great opportunity for us. I know you'll probably get to it but we're really excited about you know beyond what we've talked about here just kind of the future of the company as you as you progress a little bit farther in time with about eight platforms that enter you know well over 25 billion dollars of new market spaces and Taver and lots of other spots and this is a near-term opportunity that we're very bullish on we created the technology we spun it out we brought it back so we we really like the differentiation and capabilities good competitor there but we're having nice success in the peripheral uh below the knee and above the knee approvals and the the trial went well it was presented pcr this year and we're ramping up supply ramping up capital capabilities and that should be a nice driver for us in 27 and a more meaningful one in 28 as we continue to enhance the product and continue to drive supply capabilities. So it's a billion dollar market plus growing nicely and it fits right into the sweet spot of our very broad cardiovascular call point.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

So beyond that what are the opportunities you're most excited about? You've got so renal denervation, TAVR, what are the ones besides IVL?

Mike Mahoney, CEO

There's a bunch of them. I think as you look a bit more forward, the combination of our interventional cardiology business, our peripheral vascular business, our penumbra business once that's closed, a likely enter entry into TAVI, which we think will be disruptive if that clinical trial goes well. So you said it, it's IVL in the near term. We'll finish enrolling our hypertension trial this year as that market continues to strengthen over time and reimbursement economics we think will improve and get better. We think that entry time is a good point for that one. We've got a big bet in circuitry support with shock. Penumbra will be organic. All those product launches and EP that you know about which are markets that we're not playing in today and then a bit longer term the potential TAVR opportunity.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

On Penumbra, you've been public about the challenges with Axonics. You've seen Stryker's been public about their challenges with Inari. What can you do to avoid that?

Mike Mahoney, CEO

A lot of it is commercial. We had a lot of commercial disruption with Axonics. I can't speak to Stryker, but you really need to lock down because they're very strong relationships, and you really can't afford to have much turnover in that commercial team. And so that's been a big focus with us with Penumbra, retaining their sales leadership, retaining their incentives. And as I mentioned before, we add to Penumbra. So we're a bunch of Penumbra sales reps here. Our portfolio is additive to their portfolio now, so it'll be helpful to them. In accounts where they're not in, we likely have relationships with Silk Road and others. So we're complementary to each other, and we're supportive of each other as long as we retain them, which has been our goal.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

You mentioned Silk Road. We've seen kind of some of the news on that. What's the update? When is that product coming back, or what's the status?

Mike Mahoney, CEO

Yeah, I think that's a good example of how you can bounce back. That integration went poorly initially with commercial disruption. And again, this is more of a startup-y company with Penumbra's a more mature company with many commercial leaders who have worked for larger companies and so forth. Silk Road will be fine. We're in the midst of moving manufacturing to Minnesota. That's in place. It's an immaterial impact on the company, and the team's done a really good job of rebounding there, which gives us hope with Axonics. with the right commercial hiring and training, that business has done quite well. That's good to hear.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Mike, on 27, I don't know if it's kind of, I don't know, off the table at this point, but the 2% to 4% for the second half, 2026, you said was a good starting point for 27, 2% to 4% organic growth. I guess the question is really, what are the factors that would drive you to the kind of the upside or downside in that?

Mike Mahoney, CEO

Yeah, we clearly have to do some more work on that based on what's happened with the cyber incident. And once we get through the recovery and get a better sense of some of the numbers, we'll give a bit more of a framework for 2027. I think overall the business dynamics are similar. You know, we aim for our CRM business to get healthier with a launch of a DFID platform, ideally in the second half of this year. We talked a lot about the EP products that are coming as you get in the second half of 2027. which all point to stronger 2028 we do believe that our urology business will be better in 27 based on the product launches that we have based on the more maturity of the commercial organization but we do have some headwinds we talked about watchman we we want the market to get better for all the reasons we talked through and all the actions we're taking we have a competitor coming there so watchman will likely be under some pressure and ep will be under some pressure until we get those product launches out. But we should be able to give you a better idea at the October call. Not our official guidance, but more general.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

No LRP, given the cyber attack, I imagine you're not going to give us a new LRP on the October call. Probably not. And the DFID platform is second half of 26 or second half of 27? 27. And Empower, any update? The leadless pacemaker?

Mike Mahoney, CEO

That's similar timing.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Second half of 27. Got it. And then maybe a finer point on EPS, and again, I don't know because of the cyber attack, maybe everything's going to change, but the minimal EPS growth from the Q2 call was unclear if that was with or without the penumbra dilution, which I think you've said year one is six to eight cents.

Mike Mahoney, CEO

Yeah, so Lauren and John will have to help me out on this one. So we did say EPS growth essentially will be more of a challenge. um we said on an earnings call last year and that dynamic hasn't changed we have some gross margin pressure with the um based on the watchman and ep trend we do expect these other businesses to get healthier at the same time penumbra does have some additional dilution but we've also in the midst right now of executing a pretty significant restructuring plan and so that will provide some benefit as well so 2027 we'll give a guide in january um but we expect to have you know minimal eps growth in 27 and then we expect to get back to kind of a more traditional growing closer to wanger if not better in 28 and traditional margin improvement that we delivered in traditional eps growth in 28. closer to your wanger in 28. that's the goal and mike these these you had an amazing run.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

You've had some short-term challenges. Are these challenges having an impact on, you know, how you manage the company?

Mike Mahoney, CEO

I think, you know, I'm just, I would say the challenges are healthy, not for financially. The challenges are healthy just to bring additional muscle to the team. You'll learn a lot when you go through challenges. You'll learn less when things are going so great. And our team is very, very resilient. They're very talented and they're highly committed. And you saw that with the cyber response. We've got a very, very strong platform that we invest for the long term of the company. We want to make the company incredibly special for many, many years. We are protecting those growth drivers despite the restructuring. The restructuring is not fun, but it's needed to do. And we feel like we're doing all the right things for the company, for patients, and for long-term shareholders to ensure that we have a differentiated pipeline for the future and a team that's highly motivated to execute. And nobody likes to have a bit of a frustrating year, to say the least, but you either respond to that by getting after it or you go in a shell. And our team is very, very aggressive on proving the skeptics wrong. Okay.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Well, we're just about out of time. I want to give you the last word if you want to make any other concluding remarks, but I appreciate both of you being here.

Mike Mahoney, CEO

No, I think that's it. Thank you very much.

Larry Beigelson, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Thanks for being here. Thank you.