Energy Vault Holdings, Inc. Q4 FY2023 Earnings Call

Greetings, and welcome to the Energy Vault's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2023 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. A question-and-answer session will follow the formal presentation. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host Bernie Colson, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Hello and welcome to Energy Vault's fourth quarter and full year 2023 financial results conference call. As a reminder, Energy Vault's fourth quarter earnings press release and presentation is available now on our Investor website and we will refer to the presentation during this call. A replay of this call will be available later today on the Investor Relations' page of our website. This call is now being recorded. If you object in any way, please disconnect now. Please note that Energy Vault's earnings release and this call contain forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties. These forward-looking statements are only estimates and may differ materially from the actual future events or results due to a variety of factors. We caution everyone to be guided in their own analysis of Energy Vault by referring to our 10-K filing for a list of factors that may cause our results to differ from those anticipated in any forward-looking statement. We undertake no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements, except as required by law. In addition, please note that we will be presenting and discussing certain non-GAAP information. Please refer to the Safe Harbor disclaimer and the non-GAAP financial measures presented in our earnings release for more details, including a reconciliation to comparable GAAP measures. Joining me on the call today is Robert Piconi, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Jan Kees van Gaalen, our Chief Financial Officer. At this time, I'd like to hand the call over to Robert Piconi.

Thank you, Bernie, and welcome everyone to our fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings call. Today, we’re sharing results for our second year as a public company, coinciding with our second year of revenue. Taking a moment to reflect on our progress over these two years, we've grown this company globally in remarkable ways across multiple continents and technologies, serving various customer segments including public utilities, independent power producers, and large industrial energy consumers. The result has made us the fastest-growing company in energy storage within our first two years. We’ve successfully monetized our long-duration gravity technology through regional licensing and royalty agreements that will yield long-term dividends. The latter half of 2023 saw us execute numerous battery energy storage projects in the U.S. with our new Energy Management Software platform, which has received excellent feedback from customers and has significantly expedited our commissioning processes. Moreover, we've embarked on building a groundbreaking green hydrogen hybrid energy storage system for Pacific Gas & Electric in Calistoga, California, which will provide multi-day storage. Energy Vault will own this system under a tolling agreement with PG&E, marking our commitment to offering sustainable solutions to replace outdated diesel generation systems. I'm proud of our journey and delivery over these two years, and I am genuinely excited about the future as we keep pushing boundaries and strengthening customer relationships that will support our growth. Despite operating in a volatile capital market, our team has remained focused on key investor priorities: First, delivering for our customers to ensure their loyalty, which is essential for our future. Second, maintaining profitable unit economics as we grow, even while negotiating with some of the largest public utilities. Lastly, we are committed to protecting our balance sheet and liquidity to retain operational control, invest in growth, and avoid dilutive financing. This commitment is reflected in our results, particularly in Q4, where we've proactively adapted to the market's expectations for young, high-growth companies to achieve positive cash flow. Now, let me discuss some highlights from our release. Our revenue for the year was $341.5 million, a 130% increase year-over-year and an 18% increase quarter-over-quarter. While we ended the year slightly below our annual range due to revenue timing shifts, we finished with a robust cash position of $146 million and no debt, significantly above previous guidance. We also reduced our quarterly cash operating expenses by 25% to 30%, paving the way for a cash OpEx in 2024 of $13 million to $15 million. We believe these actions will support our shift to cash flow positivity as we finish 2024 and proceed into 2025. Our gross margin for the year was a positive 5.1%, impacted by Q4 revenue timing and is expected to improve in Q1 2024. Our commercial pipeline continues to grow, with nearly 90% year-over-year growth in gigawatt hours, reflecting an active market with larger projects in the pipeline. Importantly, we focus on converting this growing commercial funnel into contracts that enhance our revenue and backlog while ensuring profitable growth. We maintain transparency with our four stages of our sales funnel, and I encourage you to check our Investor website for updates. We pride ourselves on being customer-centric, listening to their needs, and offering unmatched solutions across our diverse portfolio. Going forward, we anticipate revenue in Q1 2024 to align with Q1 2023 levels, with potential upside from prior quarter expectations. We expect strong double-digit gross margins in Q1, as well as maintaining an unrestricted cash balance between $125 million to $150 million and remaining debt-free. These cash management strategies will provide long-term revenue predictability while allowing us to explore financing options for owned projects if they present themselves favorably. As we’ve seen, demand for long-duration storage is growing, and our leadership in this space remains strong. We’ve also expanded our territory to Southern Africa via a new licensing agreement. In China, we achieved important milestones with our gravity storage systems, showcasing ongoing growth in a crucial market. Our first USA gravity project is underway in Washington, aiming to maximize efficiency at a lower cost. On the battery front, we are nearing full commissioning on nearly 1 gigawatt hour of systems and have commenced construction on the largest green hydrogen project in the U.S. with PG&E. This project, backed by a long-term tolling agreement, will impact our near-term revenue recognition but should lead to greater predictability over time with improved margins. With our VaultOS Energy Management Software platform, we’re set to enhance project performance, contributing to recurring revenues in 2024. I am particularly proud of our execution record—successfully commissioning over 1.7 gigawatt hours of projects announced last year. One noteworthy achievement includes energizing a significant project for Nevada Energy ahead of schedule, demonstrating our commitment to outstanding delivery. The support and dedication of our team have been critical to our success, and I want to acknowledge their hard work. Customer satisfaction is central to our strategy, and we are well-positioned for future success as we prepare for our Investor Day scheduled for May 8th, 2024, in New York City. This event will showcase our strategy, product updates, and financial guidance. I look forward to seeing those who can attend and will now turn the call over to Jan Kees for financial details for the quarter.

Yes. Thank you, Rob. Good afternoon, everybody. Let's talk about revenue. Financial results are highlighted by our full year 2023 revenue of more than $340 million, 134% higher than in 2022. This revenue reflects the successful execution across our project portfolio in the United States under a build, commission, and transfer model. Next, going into gross margin. Our gross margin was 5.1% for the full year of 2023, temporarily impacted by the unfavorable timing of a few items. First, we delivered a significant amount of hardware in the second half of the year that didn't have any margin associated with it due to the percentage of completion accounting rules under GAAP. The value-add margin on that hardware will be recognized in the first half of 2024. And second, a high-margin licensing transaction shifted out from the fourth quarter of 2023 to 2024. Adjusted EBITDA. During 2023, our net loss amounted to $98.4 million, reflecting the points I previously mentioned, and for the quarter, net loss amounted to $22.2 million. For the year ending December 31st, 2023, our adjusted EBITDA was negative $62.1 million, and for the fourth quarter, adjusted EBITDA declined $3.6 million year-over-year to negative $14.8 million, reflecting a shift in timing of both battery and gravity revenue and gross profit from Q4 2023 to Q1 2024. The key non-cash items added back in the fourth quarter were $8.6 million of stock-based compensation expense and $2 million in net interest income. We do remain laser-focused on optimizing our cost structure to realize profitability as soon as possible as the business continues to scale up, and we remain very encouraged with our progress towards positive adjusted EBITDA. Cash. As of December 31st, 2023, we had $145.6 million in cash, cash equivalents, and restricted cash, leaving us well-positioned to continue our growth strategy and execute on our projects. Our primary uses of cash are cash operating expenses and working capital needs associated with equipment purchases for our energy storage projects. As the projects achieve milestones and ultimately begin to generate revenue and gross margin, some of that cash will return to our balance sheet. In addition to this strong cash position, as of today, we have reduced the restricted portion of our cash significantly from $35.6 million that we had at the end of December 2023. Restricted cash is now down to less than $1 million as of today. Please keep in mind that we maintain a bonding capacity in excess of $1 billion to facilitate additional growth projects as we desire. Thank you. And with that, I'll hand the call back to Rob.

Great. Thank you, Jan Kees. Look, in closing here, before getting to questions, I want to first thank again all of our employees that, in only our second year as a public company, delivered with quality, with velocity, and profitability across all of our projects. Model behaviors define our culture and customer focus, innovation, delivery, all underscored by our core values of humility, collaboration, problem-solving, and leading as an organization to deliver a more sustainable world for our future. A few critical milestones upcoming this year. Full operation of multiple gravity energy storage systems in China, which will generate future royalty streams and help China curtail its current increasing greenhouse gas emissions, which are larger than the next six to seven countries combined. Delivering commissioning of the first and largest green hydrogen energy storage system in California to serve as a critical replacement of diesel generation for the residents of Calistoga, California, sustainably. And then territory expansions for our entire storage portfolio from Southern Africa to new starts in Europe, Australia, and the Middle East. A few things to keep an eye on there, priorities this year. We'll begin updates on all those areas at our upcoming Investor Day. And then financially, very clear as you've heard as a theme on this call, setting ourselves up in 2024 as a profitable growth platform, while achieving cash flow positive as we exit and for full year 2025. As you have seen in our results and forecast, we have a strong balance sheet with no debt, strong operating expense management in place, and thus the flexibility to continue to invest in growth. This is enabling us to invest and own projects with longer-term, more predictable and higher-margin cash flows as the case in Calistoga, for example, with PG&E with a long-term tolling agreement. While this business model will result in less recognized revenue in the near term on projects that we would otherwise build, commission, and transfer under an EPC model. As previously discussed, we believe this can be in the best long-term interest of our shareholders and thus Energy Vault while helping to buffer the quarterly impact of larger projects that are being awarded globally. We look forward to seeing many of you that could join us in New York at our Investor and Analyst Day on May 8th. We will be speaking again on May 7th at our Q1 earnings announcement. We have a lot of new and exciting developments to share that will help provide context on the next 12 months to 24 months given the magnitude of the project awards we've announced here today as well as our ongoing growth of the business. With that, operator, we're now ready for questions.

Thank you. Our first question will come from Justin Clare with ROTH MKM. Please proceed.

Yes, hi. Thanks for taking our questions here. So, I guess, first off, I just wanted to see if you could talk a little bit more about the revenue that had shifted from Q4 into Q1. If you can provide a little bit of more detail on what led to the shift. It sounds like the projects just moved out slightly here? And then maybe if you could just speak to how much additional battery revenue and then royalty or licensing revenue shifted? And then is that all going to be in Q1 or mix of Q1 and Q2?

Sure. It's good to hear from you. We experienced a combination of factors that led to the shift in revenue. As mentioned earlier, hardware deliveries contributed to the implementation of some battery projects reaching substantial and final completion, but due to percentage of completion accounting, a portion with double-digit margins will move into Q1. Additionally, we announced a new gravity energy storage license agreement, which also impacted revenue recognition, shifting some revenue to 2024. We expect some of this to be recognized in Q1 and continue throughout 2024. These are the main timing-related items. If we had recognized the gravity portion, we would have exceeded our adjusted EBITDA and EPS targets. Regarding the amount that shifted, it's in the double-digit million range. As mentioned earlier, we will provide more clarity about our forecasts for 2024 and 2025, especially concerning larger projects and new product announcements during our upcoming Investor Day.

Got it. Okay, I appreciate that. And then I was wondering if you could maybe just speak to the visibility that you have into battery projects for 2024 beyond. After you complete the NV Energy project, the Jupiter Project, those are fully operational. Just what's next in the pipeline? And then are there key projects that need to reach NTP before you could see awards get converted into the backlog and then you can start moving forward on projects?

Sure. Great question. We have a few projects between awards and bookings that are essentially have notice-to-proceed dates, some of which are known and in other cases are being finalized. Some of this has to do with some of the supply chain timelines that are not for our scope, but around things like transformers, for example, in the market, which I know as you're probably aware, have some longer lead times; breakers is another item. We also have a set of projects that we can choose to own on our balance sheet that have attractive double-digit IRRs. So, we're working on some of those relative to what I mentioned about potentially continuing to own, not necessarily all but part of those projects that have an impact on revenue recognition as well. So, as you can see from the growth in the funnel itself, we have a lot of those sitting in that awarded category where we're finalizing the actual starts, and therefore will be critical to the 2024 revenue recognition number. We’ll be in a better position to give an update on that at our Investor Day just after our Q1 earnings on May 8th.

Got it. Okay. And then just one more on your gravity solution. I was wondering what's the latest on the Rudong project? Is that expected to be fully operational and in use in the near-term here? And then any sense for the timing on when you could provide performance metrics? Would that likely be at the Analyst Day? Could we see something sooner? And then any sense for what might be shared at that time?

Sure. As I mentioned, we were interconnected with the state grid in December, and they are actively working on commissioning that system, especially now that things are warming up in Rudong. Our CTO visited the site two and a half weeks ago, and according to their guidance, we expect to have some initial performance data by the second half of this month. By the time we reach our Investor Day, we should have a solid set of performance metrics for you regarding that system. Additionally, as previously announced, there is a second system that is up and running, but we do not anticipate any updates on it until its completion in the second half of 2024 and into the first quarter of 2025. Therefore, I expect to provide more significant updates, potentially even some videos showcasing the operations of that system by the Investor Day. As we receive performance data, we will likely make announcements based on the strength of the data and the timelines for obtaining accurate operational information about the systems and their components.

Okay. Got it. Thank you.

All right. Thanks, Justin.

Our next question comes from the line of Joseph Osha with Guggenheim Partners. Please proceed.

Yes, hey everybody. Thanks for the detail. Yes. Just to follow up a little bit on Justin's question. I believe I heard during your prepared comments, Rob, that you said full operation of these other systems following on Rudong this year, or did I mishear that? I just wanted to make sure I understand what the expectations are for these other systems that are breaking ground?

We currently have one system that is operational, and we included that in our announcement. There was an update during the quarter, and this system is now about five floors high. Our main focus is on Rudong, as we aim to gather full operational performance data since they have connected to the state grid. They are currently going through the homologation process and have successfully demonstrated inverse operations, which they have publicly announced as a company, China Tianying. I expect that initial performance data will be released in the coming weeks and months, and once we validate it through a third party, we will share that information. Regarding the other projects we've announced, one is operational, and two others have started construction. The operational system may begin commissioning in the fourth quarter, while the other two are expected to be operational by 2025.

Okay. Thank you. The next question, we haven't heard much about Snyder, Texas for a while; I'm wondering what the story is there?

Yes. Our collaboration with ENEL is ongoing, and we have begun construction at the Snyder site. We plan to provide updates, including pictures of the progress there. We also have an international key customer on-site with our team. Additionally, while we haven't made this public yet, we are using the Snyder site to demonstrate various applications of our gravity technology, in line with ENEL's interests. We will share more details about this at our Investor Day. There is no change in our collaboration agreement with ENEL, and we will keep them informed about our progress at the site. As previously mentioned, we will highlight our work on other gravity technology applications at that location, consistent with our discussions with ENEL.

Okay. So, I guess just to clarify, since this is a site that will be more accessible for some of us, do we have any information on when we might be able to visit that site and see it in action?

Sure. I would say Q3 would be a good time to get to the site, and we might have some surprises for you there when you come.

Okay. My last question is about the project award with a major Southeast Asian sustainable energy company for two energy storage products totaling 500 megawatts, which you mentioned on your Q2 call and in your Q2 press release to be booked in the second half of 2023. I'm trying to understand whether this project is part of your 2024 backlog, as it represents a significant piece of business.

Yes, that project is still in our awarded column. So, it's not in a booking column. It's in our awarded because that project is just awaiting final development, and there's a local study that was done on that continent in that country for that project. So, it still remains in our funnel. It remains in the awarded category, and we're looking at trying to convert that within 2024. That may be a project also, maybe one of the ones that we might look to help develop in line with some other comments, Joe, I've made about us looking at maintaining some equity ownership in some of the projects as they get developed through these tolling agreements. But there's active work going on in the project; the studies that have to be done. It's a country where the grid operates a little bit differently and has some special requirements and studies that have to be performed, and those studies are underway, funded, and ongoing.

Okay. And then finally, my last, last, last, last question. I do apologize. I'm trying to understand in a little bit more detail what your role is on this PG&E project. I assume they're not your electrolyzers. Are you integrating using Plug's electrolyzers? Are they your batteries or UDPC? I'm just trying to understand a little bit more about what your role is in this project?

Sure, I'll explain it. We designed this microgrid and energy storage system that includes a hydrogen fuel tank. To clarify, we are not producing the green hydrogen; we are sourcing it. We developed and sized a hydrogen fuel tank in collaboration with Chart. Additionally, we integrated Plug's fuel cells into our design, specifically focusing on the fuel cells rather than the electrolyzers. We incorporated a certain number of fuel cells along with the hydrogen tank and included one of our B-VAULTs to meet PG&E's requirements for grid forming and black start capabilities. This entire system was architected and designed by us, and we provided several components. Our Energy Management Systems manage the discharge and charging processes, with a small single container of our B-VAULT utilizing lithium-ion technology combined with the green hydrogen and fuel cell components. We own and are responsible for the engineering, procurement, and construction of this project, along with a 10.5-year tolling agreement with PG&E. Therefore, we also manage the asset. Is that clear?

I just heard you mention that it's a black start capabilities facility. I assume that's part of the attraction of this to PG&E.

Yes, for black start. Yes. Well, black start is a portion required as this is a microgrid backup system. So, to be clear, the use case here is something that's not going to be discharged frequently, probably four to five times a year. PG&E can probably speak better to that, but it's designed so that in the fire season, you'll know, Joe, because I think you're up in that area. You'll remember that Calistoga was hit pretty hard, and they had to shut down the grid. And so this microgrid can work standalone. It actually is also interconnected. But the design of this is to be discharged during events of what they call PSPS, any power shutdown or safety shutdown event; this thing will kick in. They don't need diesel generation anymore, and the lithium-ion helps them with some specific services and even ancillary power, by the way, that they can use daily. Does that make sense?

Okay. Thank you. I understand that much better now. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Yes, no problem.

And we have about 15 minutes left, and we still have a list of people to get through. So, if you can limit your questions, please, to one and a follow-up, that would be great.

And the next question will come from the line of Thomas Boyes with TD Cowen. Please proceed.

Appreciate you taking the questions. Maybe the first is, is the royalty structure for the gravity deal in South Africa similar to the one in China, where it's like a 5% royalty on the projects and then about 90% gross margin? Just trying to get a sense of how that is situated.

Yes, it is.

Thank you. It's great to see the progress in China. I know the EVS system in Texas is expected to utilize wind blades and block construction, which I assume is still being considered. I'm curious if you're observing similar demand for these solutions in China. Are they also interested in using waste materials and block construction?

Yes, that's correct. To share more about what China Tianying plans to do, they are involved in waste remediation and environmental services. This means they handle standard waste management and operate an incinerator, using the incinerated ash in their brick production. Under our partnership with Gravity, we are exploring other waste materials such as coal ash and shredded fiberglass from wind blades that can be utilized as well. In China, significant wind turbine deployments are occurring, and these blades typically need to be replaced every ten years due to fatigue, presenting a substantial opportunity for them. Additionally, there are regulations in China that promote the reuse of materials, and China Tianying is actively participating in this market. Their core business requires them to leverage these materials, and specifically regarding energy, there is a synergy between our technology and their operations.

Excellent. Appreciate. I'll jump back in queue.

Okay. Thank you.

Our next question comes from the line of Chris Ellinghaus with Siebert Williams Shank. Please proceed.

Hey everybody. How are you?

Hey Chris, how are you doing?

Rob or whoever wants to talk about this, but the efforts that you undertook in the fourth quarter to sort of conserve your cash run rate, what sort of line items did you address in terms of reducing costs?

Great question, Chris. We are concentrating on two main areas, specifically controllable operating expenses. This includes our internal IT costs, infrastructure, travel, and other controllable elements. Additionally, we are making adjustments to our infrastructure, such as consolidating facilities in Snyder, Texas, which we now own. We are winding down the R&D facility that housed our EVx system while we finalize testing. With the developments in Snyder, we will enhance our operations there. We had some discretionary projects, including IT and R&D initiatives, which we reviewed based on market priorities. In this evolving market, with various storage durations and technology options, we are committed to investing strongly in R&D and future energy storage technology. We have optimized our controllable expenses as well as made adjustments to our business model. This means we no longer need to establish offices in areas like the Southern Africa Development Community or China, as our partners, local EPC companies, handle the execution with our guidance. We adapted our functional and engineering model accordingly, which involved difficult decisions about headcount related to our business model's expansion. We proactively made these decisions in response to the evolving market and our need for direct management on complex projects. We are also accelerating investments in software capabilities. Overall, it was a blend of managing our controllable operating expenses and optimizing headcount to align our infrastructure costs with our business model. Given the market volatility, it is noteworthy that despite our achievements in just two years, including revenue growth and positive unit economics, our stock's trading performance is surprising. It is evident that investors want to see a quicker path to cash flow positivity. Therefore, we took steps in the fourth quarter to enter 2024 with a reduced cash operating expense rate, enabling us to hasten our journey toward positive cash flow. We will provide more details by region and on new products, as well as update some announcements made on May 8th.

Okay. Thanks. That helps. I assume that you'll sort of give us some kind of regional overview of where development stands in say, domestically or on gravity storage projects in general at the Investor Day. Is that sort of where you're headed along with some detailed guidance?

Yes, that's correct. Both of those and a few other items as well. We have some new product announcements that are related to new customer announcements. So, yes, absolutely those two.

And if I can give a little sub follow-up on that. Will you have at the Investor Day the ability to give us a little more color on this Washington state customer?

Yes, we're planning to address that. We're really excited about it because of the application of the gravity technology, which is related to one of the new product announcements we will be making. We will provide more details. One thing to note is that as we develop projects with some customers, they need to acquire land first. They are very cautious about sharing their names until they have secured the land to avoid increasing the pricing. Furthermore, when discussing gravity, we are referring to large plots of land, not just 10 acres. Therefore, our customers will require us to keep their identities confidential until they have acquired the land. Does that make sense to you?

Yes, sure. Absolutely. I'm going to dig into that one myself, but I'm looking forward to the Investor Day. Thanks for the details.

Thank you, Chris. Appreciate it.

Our next question comes from the line of Noel Parks with Tuohy Brothers. Please proceed.

Hi. I just had a couple quick ones. One of them is, with the storage market, it does seem that the last year in particular, we've seen like a greater investor awareness specifically, of the role of intermittent power sources, solar wind, or the destabilizing effect on the grid. And I just wonder, as a driver of business to you, has that sort of ascended in importance? Is it about the same?

Yes, I would say that trend continues. We are seeing a shift from what used to be a one to two-hour market to a two to four-hour market. This longer duration indicates more intermittencies, which are largely driven by the severity of weather patterns. We expect this trend to persist over time. You may have noticed a significant decrease in lithium-ion prices, which enhances its usability, especially for four-hour applications. Additionally, future pricing changes or new technologies may provide even more flexibility. However, it's crucial to address the intermittency issue as more renewable energy sources are integrated into the grid, increasing the demand for storage. We continue to observe a strong market for shorter duration technologies, along with a notable need for solutions in the eight to twelve-hour range for certain specific applications, which we are well-equipped to handle.

Great. Thanks. And last month, when you disclosed the South African license deal, I believe it was $20 million over 10 years. It was helpful to see that modification. Could you just take a stab at maybe how many similar deals like that you can envision over the next year or two? Are we talking about a handful, dozens, many dozens?

Yes, it’s not dozens, it’s under 10 because we focus on deals with credible, reliable large partners in growth markets where there is a clear demand. For instance, in South Africa, they are experiencing load shedding, similar to rolling blackouts in California, creating a significant need for storage solutions. We prefer not to establish a presence everywhere as we primarily see ourselves as technology providers, although we can manage assets like we are currently doing in Calistoga. Looking ahead, there are other locations that could be promising for this model, especially for gravity storage, which is essentially a local construction project that can mostly be executed locally. Some areas may lack the necessary power electronics or large multi-megawatt motors, which would need to be sourced externally. However, because this involves building and construction, it suits various business models well. From an investor's viewpoint, this is appealing since there are usually upfront license fees or ongoing payments, along with royalties based on volume. It can be challenging to understand the timing of these royalties as projects are built and completed. Specifically for gravity systems, the construction timeline is typically 12 to 18 months. Nonetheless, these agreements will yield substantial royalty percentages; for example, around 5% is on the higher end for royalty agreements. We will provide updates regarding when we expect to see returns from some of our initial agreements as we move forward.

Great. Thanks a lot.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to turn the call back to Robert Piconi for closing remarks.

Just to thank everyone for joining and their time and again to thank the employees of Energy Vault and what we achieved in 2023 and what we're looking forward to here in 2024 and 2025. So, just to thank the employees of the company and those of you that have joined and have been supporters of Energy Vault, we thank you for that, all the investors there. And we look forward to hopefully seeing some of you post our Q1 earnings, May 7th; we'll be speaking again then and potentially in person on May 8th in New York. Thank you very much.

This concludes today's conference. You may now disconnect your lines. Enjoy the rest of your day.