Conference Transcript - RYTM 2026-09-09

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

All right, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for joining us for our next fireside. My name is Derek Archilla. I'm one of the biotech analysts here at Wells Fargo. I'm very excited to have Rhythm Pharmaceuticals and David Meeker, Chairman, President, and CEO, with us here.

David Meeker, CEO

Thank you, Derek. Glad to be here.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Excellent. Well, maybe to start off, there's been lots of things going on at Rhythm, ongoing launch in hypothalamic obesity, earlier this year, Prater-Willi data. So maybe just give us kind of the state of the business and then we'll take it from there.

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah, it's a great moment for Rhythm, to be honest, as you highlighted some of the headlines there that have come out. So we're into our second quarter of launch on the HO side of the business. And maybe just to back up to frame all of this, you know, where Rhythm is today, we think about three pillars. We have our genetic pillar, which was the basis of the biology here, where we had our first indications. Palm C. biallelics and the BBS opportunity. BBS, meaningful, growing steadily. HO, an anatomic disruption of the melanocortin 4 pathway. Recent approval, first quarter of launch, as I said, that we're into now. Much bigger opportunity, 10,000 patients, and I'm excited about how we've gotten out of the gates there. We can talk more about that. And the third pillar is Prader-Willi, and that's just an enormous unmet need. It has a lot of favorable characteristics from a rare disease standpoint standpoint in terms of a disease that is approachable, meaning virtually all those patients will be diagnosed at about birth or shortly thereafter. There's a community that they can, if they're given a diagnosis, the family patient can enter into, get a lot of information. There's experts that are available and centers of excellence and the like, and payers recognize it's a devastating disease, survival of 30 years approximately, so it's an underappreciated, I think, devastating disease, but the system recognizes it, and that's an opportunity we're going to go after hard. So, yeah, it's a really good moment for Rhythm. A lot going on.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Excellent. Well, maybe let's start with the Ibsibre launch and HO, and you put out some really encouraging start form information and kind of early traction. Maybe walk us through what you're kind of seeing early in launch and what gets you encouraged here?

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah, I think the advantages of HO as an indication are one, just remind people, this acquired hypothalamic obesity, it occurs predominantly in patients who've had a benign tumor in the region of their pituitary and their hypothalamus that can be resected and in the process of treatment, whether it's the surgery or radiation, injury to the hypothalamus can injure this pathway, the melanocortin 4 pathway, and they just have a classic presentation where from the moment of injury they have accelerated weight gain, they have this hyperphagia, this increased hunger that they have to live with and debilitating fatigue which is often unrecognized as a part of that overall manifestation. Now because of the injury to that area of the brain they invariably injured the pituitary as well and so they will have a number one or more and 80-90% of the patients will have one or more hormonal deficiencies which means almost invariably they are seen by an endocrinologist. And so, you know, we see this as a classic rare disease, ultra rare, 10,000 patients in the U.S., but it's concentrated in a specialist, and that makes it entirely approachable. And just to give you an example of how that causes us to think differently, for BBS, we put out, you know, we had a sales force of about 16 people recognizing that the BBS patient might be in four or five different specialties. Many of them will be sitting with their primary care. I mean, we knew there was no way you can call on all of the doctors who might be seeing a BBS patient. So you're really out there trying to just create a system that has the ability to recognize BBS, and the patients find you as much as you find them. So there is some direct identification, but you're really working to just build a system. contrast that with HO where you have a specialty our goal will be to cover that specialty and we've tiered them as we've said and so we have 42 reps out there in the field dedicated to HO with the goal again of being able to call on certainly all the top one to two tiers which is about half of the 10,000 endocrinologists out there but we will get to the bigger, we're not going to ignore the the other 5,000, because these patients, to a lesser degree, will be sitting in that lower tier as well.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Can you maybe characterize the early adopters that you guys have seen so far?

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah, I think it's interesting. I don't know. Obviously, we had centers. So you have your clinical trial centers where they knew about the drug. They had experience with it. We had the conversion of the clinical trial patients, and those scripts were written. And then we have centers, and Jennifer Lee, our head of North America, has highlighted this on a number of calls where 40-plus centers where a disproportionate number of these surgeries are done. And by definition, that's where the incident occurs. Ideally, that patient gets diagnosed shortly thereafter. What we've learned historically is many of them weren't diagnosed, so they went out through the community. But in terms of early adopters, about 25% of our scripts have come from those centers, so not zero, but it's not 80% of those. And the other thing is of the 400-plus scripts we've talked about, those have been written by about 300 prescribers, so about one script per prescriber. So, again, I think what's been encouraging is that it's been very broad-based. And I don't think, you know, we had a question today. Is there any you know endocrinologist who said you know they wouldn't prescribe and you know the answer is no but there's not really a reason that in a Rare disease where you've got a precision medication, and you've got a firm diagnosis, and that's the only treatment Why wouldn't you treat and so again? I don't see this as an early adopter market as much as just an awareness market awareness is a key to script writing so yeah based on the numbers you kind of provided you know on average They're writing about one script so far.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

I mean, how do you kind of get more depth with some of those prescribers? And is it, you know, just the fact that they need to get more experience and see some progress with a few patients? Is it more about the patients in their visits to the the clinics, you know, through the year? What what actually ends up driving kind of, you know, more depth of prescribing in those types of centers?

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah, I think it's really access to the clinic is the biggest thing. With any new medication, there'll be a bit of the, you know, let me try it in one patient and I'll see how it goes kind of thing. So I'm sure that's out there. But no, endocrinologists in the United States, their clinics are jammed. They don't have a lot of access, as we all know, perhaps trying to get into a specialist. GLP-1s and obesity medicine has also jammed up endocrinology. And that's part of the challenge, actually, because a number of the patients who have hypothalamic obesity, The endocrinologist is treating their other hormonal deficiencies, but they haven't recognized this as a hormonal deficiency. They see you have hypothyroidism and adrenal insufficiency, and you're obese. So I'm going to send you to the obesity clinic for management of your obesity. I'll take care of your hormones.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

And what our team is working on is, again, just building the awareness, going, no, no. You know, this is just another hormone deficiency, and it should be managed in the endocrinology office along with their hypothyroidism Yeah, you know, and I want to double click on you know that comment or you know the question that you got about You know if there was an endo that said they would not prescribe it You know maybe reframing it is like is there a patient that is not a good candidate for for emcivary?

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah, you know, it's interesting not really I mean the side effect profile is pretty benign so So nausea and vomiting in the first two to three weeks, but you tolerize. We've learned a lot about sort of dose adjustment to try to help people manage through that. So the short answer is no. I mean, if you have an allergy to something in a drug, and that's an incredibly rare event. We've had a few with over 2,000, 3,000 patients treated total probably in all of our experience. But aside from that kind of reaction, there's no contraindication to using this drug if you have a deficiency in this hormone. It would be like hypothyroidism. Is there a contraindication to using a thyroid placement medicine in a patient who's hypothyroid? Not really.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

How important is it, you know, with the data now published, but also like guidelines for HO? I mean, it's the only therapy approved, but, you know, sometimes these physicians more react to, you know, kind of the more consensus view.

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah, it's critical. And it's critical because it does an enormous amount to help with the education of these. And part of the challenge is before there's a treatment, classically in rare diseases, you might not recognize the disease. You might not get to a diagnosis as a physician. But there's no consequence of missing it because there was nothing to do. It would be nice to be able to tell the patient what they have. But you haven't missed an opportunity to treat. Once there's a treatment, you have missed an opportunity to treat. So guidelines really help with that. And I think particularly in this world with GLP-1s and other things, guidelines help educate that all obesity is not the same. And as we've said many times, Lily and Novo have done a tremendous job helping the world think about and understand obesity itself is a disease. And where rhythm is playing and trying to help people think about it is, yes, it's a disease, but it's not one disease. Many diseases and you know like many parts of medicine cancer and other things, you know You don't just have cancer you got to figure out which kind of cancer you have which obesity you have do the right tests and recognize it So guidelines are critical So talk about your identification efforts.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

So you did kind of put out a number a while ago now last year If HO patients that you had already identified You haven't updated that number although we ask you all the time, but you know have an update of that number But I guess, you know, now that the drug is approved and launched, are you seeing that level of kind of like influx? Are you getting more inbounds or doctors actually finding more patients? Is that kind of like the typical rare disease, like, you know, reveal of new patients? Is that started or is that still to come?

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah. So maybe let's retrace that history briefly. So almost a year ago, we had a early commercial day where we this is prelaunch, of course, last September. and we'd had our MSLs, medical science liaisons, in the field. The sales force was just hired around that time, so they hadn't even really been out there. And what the initial interaction with different physicians in the field, the team had come away with this 2,000-ish number, of which the majority of those were suspected. They didn't actually carry a diagnosis of HO, but they fit the profile. And so the doctor, once they understood what HO was, And they go, oh, yes, I may have that patient in my practice, and I'll be looking. So that was the 2,000 suspected number. Since then, of course, we have a full team. There's 40 incremental sales force who've been out in the field interacting. And so not surprisingly, the number is, as we say, meaningfully higher than the 2,000 we gave you a year ago in terms of patients who may be out there. And it's always a mix of identified, hard diagnoses, and suspected. What's fundamentally different about the HO space from the BBS space is our teams may talk to a large number of physicians who have never heard of BBS, who have never seen a BBS patient, and don't think they ever will. Whereas in the HO space, it's a very different experience where I would say the vast majority of endocrinologists they have talked to, If they don't have a diagnosed patient with HO, and they may not because they hadn't thought about it as a disease, they have a patient or more in their practice who fits the profile. And the other advantage, so that's from a field experience, very, very different being out there. And then the second thing is the claims data and other tools that we have to help guide the sales force to places where we practices, physician practices where we believe patients are being cared for is infinitely higher. So they're not out there making random cold calls. They're going in a very directed way. Technical moment.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Hopefully we're okay on the sound check there.

David Meeker, CEO

There you go. There's very few visits that don't get a level of engagement. And probably, yes, I think I might have one patient.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

You know, so again fundamentally very different from a classic rare disease experience So, you know, we've kind of looked at this, you know, kind of relative to Praetor-Willi So very established, you know, patient support groups and advocacy groups Less so with H.O. But do you think that's something that will, you know, start to build, you know, now with the psibris approval?

David Meeker, CEO

I think it will. It's you know, it's it's an interesting So the Raymond A. Wood Foundation, which is the patient organization that was founded by a family who had a child with a pediatric tumor, with a benign pituitary tumor that was resected. That child actually developed HO. But the purpose of that foundation was to support all of these patients who are going through the tumor, multiple hormonal deficiencies and the like. They, of course, now that HO has been diagnosed and they see that as being part of it, have really embraced it and we've worked closely together to try to increase awareness around this. So it's beginning. It's just a little bit different than the BBS Foundation, which is basically a pure BBS effort. This is a little broader umbrella in the sense that it will have patients with HO in it and patients who don't have HO in it.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

So, in terms of the launch, so, you know, again, you gave some KPIs out there, particularly around, like, the priority centers and whatnot. What does it take to really activate these centers? Like, if there's a center that's not currently using, is it more, again, it sounds like they have these patients that are there, but it's really getting them to start using MCIVRI. What's that like, and how long do you think that takes to activate, like, just a de novo center?

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. We think about centers in terms of multi-specialty care. So surgery's done, there's a surgeon, there's the endocrinologist, there may be other supporting team members who help with post-operative recovery and the like, nutritionists. The key in all of these places is the endocrinologist. Over time, and we've got some early efforts, we will work with surgeons And the goal there is really surgeons don't tend to be part of the post-operative care, but the long-term follow-up care. But getting the surgeon aware and part of the discussion, I think, will increase the probability that patients going into surgery get the right information going into it and they know what to look for. That, of course, ensures that the team as a whole is vigilant and looking for it. But back to the starting point, it's the endocrinologist. I don't think it's so much more difficult to activate one of those centers than it is to activate a community endocrinologist other than access. So it may be easier to get into a community endocrinologist, again, depending on their caseload and how many patients they're seeing and the like, versus a busy academic center. Now, one last nuance to this whole thing is some of these larger centers, of course, have endocrinology departments, and there will be multiple endocrinologists who are seeing patients. So when you get in there, you may have a person who's aware, who's a champion and the like, but it's much easier to make sure that all six endocrinologists in the practice are aware and treating if you have that champion, and you can activate one and get six who are working.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

John, so we were talking earlier about kind of steady growth, right? Steady's good. I guess the street likes accelerating, things like that, or fast, or whatever, a more aggressive word. But steady can go pretty far. And as you were talking earlier, we kind of know what the destination is. It's just a matter of how we get there. So talk to me how we get there. But also, in your experience in working in rare disease, typically, when we get there, what's penetration look like?

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah. So first on, you know, the steady quote unquote comment, I think everybody, at least, you know, in every, I guess, company or disease opportunity wants to know this rate of growth so they can create their models. And which we understand we're very early and what we've discouraged people is drawing a line when you have two data points or something. I mean, there's variability there. What we've been very clear about is that the experience with HO will be a steeper ramp than the BBS ramp, for all the reasons I just said, right? I mean, it's a very different dynamic, and there's more patients, and they're more accessible, and the like. So there will be a steeper ramp. It's early, but I think steady likely characterizes. And so far, I would say there's nothing that's inconsistent with the concept of steady growth here. And then how far will that go and how much will we penetrate into that 10,000? I will argue without having perfect knowledge here that much of that 10,000 may be very accessible. In contrast that with BBS where we think there's 5,000, I'm guessing that the 5,000 is not as accessible as the 10,000 in the PHO because they're harder to find, they're more spread out, they're more complicated to diagnose. I mean, there's all those factors say you may not penetrate as fully into that 5,000 as we might penetrate into the 10,000. And then your general question about rare diseases and the like, what can you aspire to in terms of penetration? What's interesting about rare diseases is the more deeply you penetrate, the more likely it is that your denominator, your epi, is wrong. So you could be at 50% forever, but you're steadily growing because you get more and more awareness. who underestimated the epi and the like. So, you know, those are just factors that I think are very characteristic of rare diseases. I think there's nothing about this HO opportunity, per se, that wouldn't say, you know, we might be in that, you know, bucket. But, yeah.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

And then maybe the last one before we shift to a prayer, Willie. But, you know, I guess any sort of friction points that, you know, you've kind of learned through the first part of the launch here? And, you know, we always talk about reimbursement and things, but it sounds like that's starting to come online, you know, fairly in line with expectations, but any other things that you guys are kind of like early launch, a little bit of friction, and you guys are maybe retooling and re-strategizing around, or has it been generally pretty okay so far?

David Meeker, CEO

Well, I think in terms of our expectation, it's generally been pretty okay. I think the biggest friction point is access to doctors and their clinics. I mean, again, they're just busy. So creating that awareness and getting that, I think that is for sure. The payer side is still early. We haven't given a lot of detail around the payer side. We talked about 30 to 60 days from the time a script is written to a patient actually being able to start therapy with approvals. We expected, and it is true, that we would have an easier time in the payers second time around. In BBS, we were new medication with a new indication. Now they know the drug. They understand. And most of them, this concept of, you know, it's a hormone deficiency in patients who have this absence of a satiety signal. So that's all a big advantage. I think we're very encouraged by, you know, the policies that are in place already. And what you want is a policy in place because that removes the need for the one, you know, single patient evaluation. you'll always have the prior authorization but you know we have a not insignificant number of our current approvals that are going through right on the prior auth with no appeal and the like so got it well maybe let's talk about you know Prager Willie and Ipsivri's opportunity there so you guys report out you know a couple data sets now and just increasingly you know confidence inspiring in terms of potentially going into a phase three and being successful there.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

So maybe walk us through the data and what's kind of most de-risking for a phase three trial or future phase three trial.

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah, I think, so our plans for, just to remind people, for Prader-Willi are, as you noted, we had really encouraging phase two data. It was, you know, there's 18 patients, 17 patients remain on therapy in an open label study done with one of the true experts in the field. And what gave us the most confidence that this drug is working and that the melanocortin-4 pathway is central to the biology of Prader-Willi, it's not the only thing going on, of course, was the fact that of the four endpoints we presented at that point, two questionnaires, one the classic hyperphagia questionnaire, HQCT, and one an anxiety distress questionnaire, and then BMI and DEXA scans looking at the ratios of fat to lean. Basically, all of those went in the same direction. So the drug is for sure working. Now, the second question, which is this is a really challenging disease, and what we are very respectful of and recognize are the many companies that have tried and some of who have failed, is the behaviors in this population make it hard to do clinical studies. So, for example, you could treat the patients. They reduce their hyperphagia, but they may eat for reasons unrelated to their hunger. They just eat because it soothes them, it quiets their behaviors. The parents give them food because that's how they've always managed their behaviors and the like. So those are aspects you have to be aware of as you run your study. Is there a way to design a study where that's not a problem? Not really. That's the disease. And so you need to be prepared to deal with that kind of variability in your population. So we are, meaning we're going in eyes wide open. I think that leads to powering calculations and size of trial. We're going to follow what others have done, to be honest. I think the Solano approval was incredibly important for the whole community in that it established. And as I understand, I think the FDA is going to stand by a route to approval. So a hyperphagia study, six months in duration, and, you know, that will be our first trial out. We will collect weight data, BMI data. If it's positive, we would expect at six months to get that in the label, but it would not be in the indication statement. That would be our expectation. If we wanted weight or BMI reduction in an indication statement, we will need to run another trial for 12 months. Again, that's the kind of guidance we've gotten in our other indications. So we'll evaluate whether we would do that. And the last thing I'll say about Prader-Willi until your next question is that given the complexity of Prader-Willi, we realize, one, A, it may not be straightforward. B, we may need to think about it in different ways. So we will not take just one shot on goal. I think it's highly likely we will run more than one trial. So back to this question of which asset, you know, we will pick one of the two to start with, but you can imagine that we would do another trial with the other asset, maybe asking some different questions. And again, if you think about how Prater-Willi fits in rhythm strategy right now, HO is an enormously valuable opportunity. Prater-Willi is equally or greater. And therefore, and we think we have a reasonably high probability of success there. So it makes total sense for us to invest in that and get it right. And that means potentially having both an oral and a weekly available. It means thinking about combination drugs potentially in the future. I mean, there's a lot of things that we will keep thinking about here, but Prader-Willi is very much central to Rhythm's next chapter and our strategy going forward.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Yeah, a lot to unpack there. So maybe just first in terms of your experience with the psych division, right? So if you're going to go HQCT route in terms of the primary endpoint, you know, so you're kind of moving away from kind of the comfort zone of the, what is it, the rare and metabolic division that you guys have been working with for many years. So what's kind of, you know, getting, what's their receptivity to kind of this therapy? And ultimately, it's already approved. So do you get a little bit of a benefit there, you know, given that it's got a long history of success and safety?

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah. So the way it will work is that you have a division that takes the lead, but you can invite other divisions. So we would invite the lipid metabolism division to our meeting because they do know our drug and our mechanism and the like. So they would be very much part of the review. The lead would be with psychiatry, number one. Two, like I said, I think that Solano experience has been very clear.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

The bar has been set. so I don't think we're likely to get different guidance there we'll see but I don't think so so no I'm not expecting any wrinkle in that understood and then you know from your phase two experience you know this was a trial done single center Dr. Miller Jenny Miller's site and she was enrolling a pretty tough patients so I guess when you think about the enrollment criteria for phase three what changes are you looking to potentially employ to maybe for higher quality data or, again, basically a trial that can get done because these patients can be very challenging?

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah, I mean, arguably there's no real contraindication to the use of an MC4R agonist. And as you said, Dr. Miller had particularly the first patients she enrolled were patients she didn't really have another good option to treat. The first two patients had very uncontrolled diabetes with hemoglobin A1C in the mid-teens. You wouldn't design a trial. That would likely be an exclusion criteria. But I will say that that first patient gained some weight but has been stable since then, basically, on drug. And their HQCT had a significant drop. The second patient actually had a pretty significant decrease in their weight, even though their diabetes was very uncontrolled. And part of the challenge with diabetes is as you optimize their diabetes care, you put them on insulin, that can lead to weight gain and the like in and of itself. So it's why it complicates running trials when you enroll patients like that. But the reason I highlight those two patients is we will, of course, need to put in inclusion-exclusion criteria that can optimize our ability to run the trial. But most importantly, it will be if we're going to do a hyperphagious trial, they need to have a certain baseline level of hyperphagia, which is the way all these trials have been run, so 13 or higher, for example. So we will, of course, do that. But I don't think necessarily we'll be overly restrictive on other complications that they patients may have just because I'm not sure it will make that big a difference in terms of how our drug works.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

I know in the phase two you also enroll patients who are on Vicat so I guess would you be doing the same thing in a phase three and is that capped you know in terms of just ensuring that you know like 80% and you wash out a single or something like that?

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah so no final decisions yet I mean we're actively considering that I think that's likely in the sense that it's an approved drug here in the US some people would want to know they can use them in combination if that's what they wanted to do now we will run a global trial number one number two patients if they are on Vicat and we allow them in the trial they will need to be stable on Vicat meaning having been on it probably for longer than three months minimum to make sure we don't get somebody who's newly on Vicat and then developing a side effect that might confuse the running of our trial so patients who are stable and And would you cap that? Yes, you would want that to be. It's enough MICAT patients to allow people to have confidence that they can be used safely together. Excellent.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

So, you know, we're going to start this trial, you know, once you make a decision whether you want to move forward with 718, you know, the weekly injectable or with Bivimelagam, the oral. I guess what are some of the gating factors that you're kind of waiting for for those two programs to actually begin the prayer willy?

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah, I think the biggest issue is just the practical issue of the CMC, the manufacturing issue. So both of them are going through scale-up. So with any drug development program, of course, you start in pilot plants, small scale. You're establishing a process. So both of those are well advanced in that. And with Bivum Elegon, we have the new formulations we brought in to make the drug more palatable. the chewable tablet we had to create and that will allow us to go into children under the age of 12 for the 718 weekly we'll want to do that with the auto injector and that's you know moving to because it's a more viscous solution and that's you know moving toward finalization so those are the issues they have different timelines and back to some of the practical decisions about which one we lead off with will relate probably to which drug is ready to go first.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Understood. So I guess when you think about 718 and BIVA, I mean, you're going to be expanding those potentially into HO, at least BIVA for sure. You know, the challenge of trying to enroll those patients, like HO patients, also in the context of like in the middle of a launch, right? You're still, or so like, you know, what's kind of your strategy around that? But also, you know, how does that create a moat, you know, for rhythm, you know, in HO relative to, you know, or emerging competition, let's say.

David Meeker, CEO

Sure. So we will, for our Bivum-Elegon Phase 3HO trial, which is next up, we will have some U.S. sites, small in number, and they, by definition, will cannibalize some patients. That's just the way drug development is. But it will be a relatively small number of the total opportunity. The global trial is we will also be running and having sites in places where in Survery is not available. And so, again, your question was, if I'm a competitor coming in and trying to run the same trial, it does make it more challenging. I mean, that's a, you know, you have to, it's like trying, for us, trying to run Prader-Willi studies when there's three or four other companies running Prader-Willi studies. It, yeah, it makes it harder.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Yeah, gotcha. And then maybe just last question, you know, so we've got the launch ongoing. We've got a lot of, you know, development and lifecycle management and also to kind of secure the franchise, you know, how do you think about overall kind of revenue growth and profitability, but also ensuring enough investment both on the commercial and R&D side?

David Meeker, CEO

Yeah, I mean, we're very well capitalized, as you know, and as Hunter Smith likes to say, you know, we don't we're not in a position where we need to go out and raise more money potentially between now and when we might be profitable. That's, you know, we can look at revenue streams increasingly with more and more confidence. So I think, you know, any decisions we make on, you know, financing or the need to pull in additional liquidity is to create a buffer around our current role. I think in terms of investments, I think we're well resourced to invest on our internal strategy. In terms of the HO launch, we pressure test this. The return on that launch is so great that, you know, as we made clear to the teams, you know, it's truly we should spend everything and anything we need to spend to be successful. So I think, you know, the plan that we have in place reflects that. So, you know, we're not in a difficult situation and, you know, hopefully on a path to profitability, but, you know, willing to make the investments we need to make.

Derek Archila, Analyst — Wells Fargo

Sounds good. Well, David, we'll leave it there. Thank you so much. Thank you.