Ideal Power Inc. Q3 FY2022 Earnings Call

Good day and welcome to the Ideal Power Third Quarter 2022 Results Conference Call. Today's conference is being recorded. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Carolyn Capaccio of LHA. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining Ideal Power's third quarter 2022 conference call. With me on the call are Dan Brdar, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Tim Burns, Chief Financial Officer. Ideal Power's third quarter 2022 financial results press release is available on the company's website at idealpower.com. Before we begin, I'd like to remind everyone that statements made on the call and webcast, including those regarding future financial results and industry prospects, are forward-looking and may be subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in the call. Please refer to the company's SEC filings for a list of associated risks. We would also refer you to the company's website for more supporting industry information. Now, I'll turn the call over to Ideal Power's President and CEO, Dan Brdar. Dan?

Thank you, Carolyn. Good afternoon everyone and welcome to our third quarter 2022 financial results conference call. I'll first touch on the development agreement that we announced earlier today, then I'll give you an update on our progress to commercialize our B-TRAN semiconductor technology, the introduction of our first commercial product, and review our other key priorities for the remainder of 2022; and Tim Burns, our CFO will take you through the numbers. After which, we'll take your questions. So, let's begin. Earlier today, we made a very exciting announcement. We entered into a development agreement with a top 10 global automotive OEM. This is our second engagement with a top 10 global automaker as we've previously announced that a different top 10 global automaker is in our test and evaluation program. We're partnering with this automaker's advanced technology development team to develop a custom B-TRAN power module for use in electric vehicle drivetrain inverters in the automaker's next-generation EV platform. Ideal Power would collaborate on the development of these multi-die custom modules with a packaging firm selected by the automaker for their innovative technology. Automobile manufacturers are looking for innovative solutions and new approaches as they look to differentiate their EV offerings and are especially targeting innovations that can increase vehicle range and reduce cost. Ideal Power's B-TRAN technology was selected for entry into this program after the automaker evaluated multiple new suppliers and technologies, each evaluated for its innovation, potential performance improvements, and return on investment. We demonstrated that our B-TRAN technology and its value proposition surpassed that of other power devices and technologies under consideration. B-TRAN was selected because it also offers the potential for new inverter topologies, which are not practical with conventional semiconductor devices, as a way to improve EV drivetrain inverter efficiency. In addition, by leveraging the scale and maturity of the established silicon supply chain, we can offer cost advantages over competing technologies that rely on high-cost materials like silicon carbide. Specifically, B-TRAN offers a way to improve efficiency through its superior performance characteristics over IGBTs and MOSFETs including unique inherent bidirectional capability, requiring fewer components and lower switching and conduction losses, leading to reduced cooling requirements and an increase in the range of the electric vehicle or a reduction in the size and cost of the battery, which is the largest EV cost component. As the silicon carbide supply chain improves in cost and quality, B-TRAN can be fabricated in silicon carbide, offering the opportunity to further improve its performance. Signing our first development agreement is a thrilling moment and we are very much looking forward to beginning our work with this automaker in the coming days. It represents the combination of many months of work with the automaker's advanced technology and procurement teams as they evaluated a variety of technologies, their potential performance and cost impact on their future vehicles, and the readiness of the technology for incorporation into their development and product roadmaps. The program we announced today is the first step in what is envisioned by the automaker as a multiyear program targeting delivery of production-ready silicon B-TRAN-based modules in 2025. We'll have to continue to earn our role in the program as we go along, delivering against program requirements and satisfying the key milestones required to make it into actual vehicle production. We're excited about the magnitude of the opportunity and we're ready for the challenge. The initial steps in this program will be to start a wafer fabrication run, based on our current die and packaging design, followed by the delivery of initial packaged devices and demonstration boards. The initial deliveries will include our new bidirectional driver and power board as part of the automaker's evaluation and technology readiness assessment of B-TRAN for inclusion in future high-density power module evaluations and for potential use in EV drivetrain inverters. In the development program, we'll further optimize our device design to incorporate improvements in power density and further improvements we have planned to increase efficiency while collaborating with the module design firm as they develop the custom multi-die module incorporating B-TRAN into their innovative packaging technology. This B-TRAN module will then go through initial testing and evaluation followed by an automotive qualification process. The automotive qualification consists of unique and rigorous standards including testing for things such as shock and vibration, which are not applicable to stationary applications. Meeting these rigorous standards will benefit our overall commercialization efforts due to the demanding requirements for product quality and long-term reliability. The module will then be evaluated in an EV drivetrain inverter. Although it's not part of what is targeted for 2025 production-ready modules, there is also a longer-term target under the program that a silicon carbide B-TRAN will be developed for use in EV drivetrain inverters. The development of the silicon carbide B-TRAN would not only support the EV drivetrain application, but would also enable use cases for innovative power conversion architectures and additional applications such as AC-DC converters, vehicle-to-grid, vehicle-to-home, and vehicle-to-vehicle charging which require bidirectional switching. Numerous automakers have announced EV roadmaps and some have publicly discussed EV dealership investment requirements to facilitate the transition from the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicles to Electric Vehicles. Even at today's high prices, due to high material costs and production costs, EVs are not profitable for most automakers. Although there's strong legislative support from the U.S. government for EV development and adoption, automakers need to identify and implement innovative ways to address current materials costs, production cost, and performance efficiency challenges. This exerts intense pressure on their R&D teams to lower EV production costs while simultaneously improving performance and range. B-TRAN offers a distinct advantage over other technologies in EV drivetrain applications and a compelling value proposition. Having the opportunity to engage with one of the world's largest automakers at such an early stage in the development and adoption of Electric Vehicles is a particularly exciting opportunity which we hope to leverage within the EV industry and other applications where B-TRAN can bring value and in some cases act as an enabler for new products. We'll share further updates on future calls, but this is a proprietary program, so we need the concurrence of the automaker on what we can publicly share. Our team is very excited to start work with this customer. Now, let's turn to our work with the United States Navy and our partner Diversified Technologies. Last week, we began shipping additional B-TRAN devices to Diversified Technologies on our project for the Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) to develop and demonstrate a B-TRAN enabled low-loss, 12-kilovolt DC solid-state breaker for the U.S. Navy. This represents another significant accomplishment and advances us toward fulfillment of our program deliverables to DTI in the coming months. In contrast to prior devices we've delivered to DTI for testing, these devices will be paralleled into an array for incorporation into the full-scale MVDC solid-state circuit breaker that DTI is building for demonstration. As with the initial devices we shipped to DTI, these devices were produced using existing silicon wafer processing equipment, employing techniques and process flows we developed in collaboration with our wafer fabrication partners. The process and fabrication techniques we developed are specifically designed to be used in traditional high-volume silicon manufacturing facilities without the need for substantial capital investment in the conventional wafer fabs, thereby removing a potential hurdle in the manufacturing of an inherently bidirectional die. We tested these packaged devices in our lab prior to shipment and they met the fast switching and low conduction loss characteristics predicted in our simulations. These devices are packaged in our latest packaging design that utilizes state-of-the-art techniques designed to provide high reliability. DTI is currently designing the driver for the solid-state circuit breaker and we're supporting them in this effort due to the uniqueness of B-TRAN's bidirectional operation and our prior experience in designing a B-TRAN driver for discrete devices. Additional wafers are now being fabricated at both of our development fab partners, which will be diced, packaged into devices and tested prior to further shipments to DTI. The medium voltage DC circuit breaker that results from this project will have direct applicability to military applications and commercial markets where circuit breakers are in wide use such as electric utility distribution and transmission systems and microgrids, as well as solar, wind, and energy storage installations. Circuit breakers perform a critical function in power generation, transmission and distribution systems to protect against power surges and short circuits. These needs have traditionally been filled by mechanical circuit breakers, which are orders of magnitude slower, prone to arcing and failure, and require manpower and cost to maintain. Solid-state circuit breakers relying on conventional power semiconductors such as IGBTs have not seen widespread adoption, primarily because of their high conduction losses which result in wasted energy and the need to dissipate heat produced by their high losses. B-TRAN, with its fast switching and low conduction losses, is a potentially enabling solution for large-scale solid-state circuit breaker adoption. We'll continue to provide program and technical support through the demonstration of the B-TRAN-enabled breaker and I'll provide program updates as we're able within the limitations of our NAVSEA confidentiality restrictions. As we've discussed with you before, the device and packaging design used in this program will be leveraged for our customer test and evaluation program and for the design of our first commercial products. Our technical teams and fabrication and packaging partners have done outstanding work and we're proud to ship these devices, further validating the expected performance of our low loss bidirectional technology, DTI, and in turn to the Navy. Our progress introducing our first commercial product by year-end, a multi-die power module designed primarily for the solid-state circuit breaker application, continued during the third quarter and we expect to introduce this product by year-end. We continue to receive strong inbound levels of inquiries, particularly in applications involving circuit breakers from a broad range of commercial, research and government entities and are excited to introduce new B-TRAN-based products to the market in the coming months. Let's move on to our test and evaluation program. Since the start of the third quarter, we further expanded our roster of participants in the B-TRAN test and evaluation program with three new participants which include a non-domestic designer and manufacturer of grid solutions interested in evaluating B-TRAN for solid-state circuit breakers and other grid applications. This further illustrates the high visibility of the NAVSEA program in the technical community and the community's broad interest in the development of innovative lower-loss fast-acting technology necessary to solve fundamental problems in both mechanical circuit breakers and solid-state circuit breakers using conventional devices. B-TRAN's characteristics and benefits make it particularly well suited to and a potential game changer in a very large circuit breaker market. Also, two universities working closely on technology collaboration with large commercial businesses entered our evaluation program. Partnering with these universities is an important part of our strategy to capture additional government funding opportunities and to leverage their commercial relationships with strong industrial companies. As a reminder, our prospective customers and partners looking to advance their technology roadmaps will rigorously test and evaluate B-TRAN for use in their particular applications in their labs, many of which have considerable in-house technical resources for evaluating cutting-edge technology and the improvements and capabilities B-TRAN can create for them in their product designs. These tests will yield results, data, and feedback on performance and features that we will incorporate into our future commercial products and custom modules for use in specific applications. We have one or more test and evaluation agreements in place in each of our target markets and our pipeline of potential additional collaborations is healthy, especially in the solid-state circuit breaker and EV markets. These relationships are opening new doors to partner on additional government funding opportunities, in turn driving additional features and performance requirements for our commercial product offerings. We expect this repeating cycle of ongoing engagements will result in our introducing over time a range of B-TRAN-based modules customized for specific applications, as is common in the traditional power semiconductor market. Next, we continue to submit for other government funding opportunities. Since the start of the third quarter and in collaboration with universities and commercial entities, we've submitted several proposals and concept papers for government funding opportunities with the Department of Energy, the Department of Defense, and NASA. These submissions include applications in the areas of EV drivetrain, solid-state circuit breakers for renewables, grid and aircraft, as well as advanced B-TRAN concepts. While the competition for these programs and their funding is very high and the chance of winning any given opportunity is low, this exercise provides us the opportunity to collaborate with current partners in the test and evaluation program and prospective customers that may enter that program and/or development agreements with us. Let's move on to our development activities. As we grow closer to B-TRAN commercialization, our development activities are on target. Recently, our non-domestic fabrication partner with high-volume production capability successfully completed engineering short loops for thin wafer handling and front-to-back feature alignment and validated key process steps for a bidirectional device on existing silicon processing equipment. While we're working well in advance of the need for high-volume production, it's been critical for us to validate that some of the unique processing steps for thin double-sided wafers our product requires can be addressed in a true production-level facility without the need for significant capital equipment expenditures. Production at a high-volume fabrication partner will result in improved quality and yield, as a result of eliminating manual wafer handling and ensuring rigorous and repeatable quality processes, faster runs, and a greater number of larger diameter wafers per run compared to development fabs. It will also help us to ensure there will be sufficient production capacity for the large customers that we're engaging, mitigating supply chain risks. We fabricated and successfully tested our latest B-TRAN driver, and have multiple drivers built and ready to support our test and evaluation program. For this program, we've also designed and fabricated a full test and evaluation kit that will include a B-TRAN device, a bidirectional driver, power board and enclosure for safety and ease of connection for instrumentation to facilitate and accelerate setup tests and evaluations by our technology participants in the program. As we mentioned on our last call, during the third quarter, we completed the qualification of a world-class packaging firm to transition our new packaging concept for volume production. We now have qualified both a domestic and non-domestic packaging firm. These firms completed their design work including a joint design review with us, trial mechanical builds, and packaged their first devices with the packaging of these devices successfully tested by a third party. Our packaging partners also have the capability to design and fabricate multi-die B-TRAN modules, which are in high demand in solid-state circuit breaker and electric vehicle applications. One of these firms is working closely with us on our module design firm to ensure our initial commercial product is manufacturable in high volume. To support the commercialization of B-TRAN, we engaged a third-party firm that will conduct long-term reliability testing, which involves, among other tests, tens of thousands of power cycles to assess the mechanical integrity and durability of the design. Additionally, we've identified a firm to conduct further third-party device characterization and testing following the completion of our deliveries under the NAVSEA program. We also selected a design firm that is nearing completion of the packaging design of our first commercial product, a multi-die power module, planned for introduction later this year. The power module packages Ford MACH-E without a driver. This type of product is particularly attractive for the solid-state circuit breaker application, where the driver is typically handled at the system level rather than the module level. We have several participants in our customer sampling program, as well as inbound inquiries from potential collaborators focused on the solid-state circuit breaker application. The multi-die power module will form the basis of our second commercial product, which is an intelligent power module. This intelligent power module takes the multi-die power module design and adds a multi-die driver. This type of product is targeted at the renewables, energy storage, and other industrial end markets. We're targeting the introduction of this product in the first half of 2023. With sufficient capability and capacity to support the introduction of our first commercial products, and our ongoing development activities along our product and technology roadmap, here are our objectives for the remainder of the year: First, we'll start a wafer fabrication run to support the newly announced development program for the top 10 global automaker. Second, we'll complete our first multi-die power module design, targeting the introduction of this commercial product by year-end. This design will leverage learnings from our discrete device fabrication and packaging efforts. Third, we'll continue to collaborate with DTI on our B-TRAN-enabled solid-state circuit breaker project for the Navy and ship additional B-TRAN devices to DTI for incorporation into the demonstration of a 12-kilovolt MVDC breaker at a site selected by the Navy, expecting to complete deliveries to DTI in early 2023. The objective of this program post-demonstration is for DTI to introduce a family of MVDC circuit breakers incorporating B-TRAN for sales to military, industrial, and utility markets. Fourth, with respect to our B-TRAN test and evaluation program, we'll fabricate additional customer kits to provide a B-TRAN device driver, power board, and safety enclosure to facilitate and accelerate the evaluation process. After delivery of the kits, we'll gather testing results from these customers and provide feedback on the design and operation of the packaged devices and driver, the feature set these customers require for specific applications, and their priorities for those applications. We'll then use this feedback to determine common requirements across applications, acting as a foundation for the development of future B-TRAN products. Our test and evaluation program will remain an embedded process in our sales and marketing effort and we'll continue to work to add additional potential customers to it. Looking at our expanding B-TRAN patent estate, we currently have 71 issued B-TRAN patents, with 31 of those issued outside of the United States and 22 pending B-TRAN patents. During the quarter, two patents were issued in the US, one related to our driver and another related to our paralleling and controlling multiple B-TRAN dies in a common module. Our current geographic coverage includes North America, China, Japan, South Korea, India, and Europe, all of which along with the United States represent our high-priority geographies for patent coverage. In summary, we are thrilled to enter our first B-TRAN product development agreement for a custom module with a top 10 global automaker. We're also proud of the progress we've made along our road map for this year and excited to be shipping additional devices to DTI for the NAVSEA program and introducing our first commercial product by year-end. B-TRAN's unique architecture offers inherent bidirectional switching capability, reduced switching and conduction losses, improved and more compact thermal management requirements, potentially leading to lower user costs for OEM products incorporating B-TRAN in high-growth applications. We're hitting our milestones with the qualification of world-class design, packaging and testing partners, a growing IP portfolio, a dedicated and talented team, and ample cash on our balance sheet. We cannot wait to start the development program with a top 10 global automaker and launch our first B-TRAN commercial product, bringing the potential of our technology into reality. Now I'd like to hand the call over to Chief Financial Officer, Tim Burns, for a review of our third quarter financial results. Tim?

Thank you, Dan. I will review third quarter 2022 financial results. In the third quarter, we recorded $11,000 in grant revenue with offsetting cost of grant revenue, as we continued our work on the Navy fund and NAVSEA program. At September 30, grant revenue of $54,000 remains to be recognized under this program. Operating expenses were $1.8 million for the third quarter of 2022, slightly lower than our expectations, compared to $1.7 million in the second quarter of 2022 and $1.2 million in the third quarter of 2021. Research and development and sales and marketing expenses were higher in the third quarter of 2022, compared to the third quarter of 2021, on; one, wafer costs associated with future fabrication runs as we received wafers this quarter that we've ordered earlier in the year to mitigate potential supply chain delays; two, higher search and placement fees and personnel costs due to headcount additions to support both B-TRAN development and our test and evaluation program; and three, other development activities including the fabrication of B-TRAN drivers. This growth represents our planned investment in development and commercialization activities in advance of introducing our initial commercial product by the end of the year. General and administrative expenses increased this quarter due to higher professional fees. Operating expenses also reflect higher stock-based compensation expense. For the fourth quarter, our development and commercialization plans include additional wafer fabrication runs including starting a run under our new development program, designing, beginning fabrication of and introducing our initial commercial product, further deliveries to DTI under the NAVSEA program, fabrication of additional B-TRAN drivers and customer kits to support the test and evaluation program, adding more engineering and product management talent, starting the design of our second commercial product an intelligent power module, and other B-TRAN commercialization activities with potential new customers and partners. We continue to expect some quarter-to-quarter variability in operating expenses, particularly our research and development spending, due to the timing of semiconductor fabrication runs and other development activities and hiring as well as the potential impact of additional government funding. We continue to expect general and administrative expenses in the fourth quarter to be relatively flat sequentially excluding the impact of stock compensation expense, despite the impact of inflation on the cost of services. Net loss in the third quarter of 2022 was $1.7 million compared to $1.2 million in the third quarter of 2021. Third quarter 2022 cash used in operating and investing activities was $1.6 million, up from $1.2 million in the third quarter of 2021 and down slightly from $1.7 million in the second quarter of 2022. This is slightly lower than the expectations we provided on our second quarter call due to the timing of hiring and other development expenses. As I mentioned, we continue to invest in both sales and marketing and research and development and now expect the cash burn for full year 2022 of approximately $6.7 million to $6.9 million with a fourth quarter 2022 cash burn of approximately $2 million to $2.2 million. Cash and cash equivalents totaled $18.5 million at September 30, 2022. Given our planned cash burn, which remains modest, we have ample liquidity on our balance sheet to fund operations as we commercialize our technology and to be a well-capitalized partner for the broad spectrum of companies participating in the test and evaluation of our B-TRAN technology, as well as the top 10 global automaker that has engaged us for the development program. As of September 30, we had 5,903,797 shares outstanding and 1,040,248 warrants outstanding, unchanged from the end of June. Including 625,948 stock options and restricted stock units outstanding, diluted shares outstanding at September 30, totalled 7,569,993 shares. At this time, I'd like to open up the call for questions.

Thank you. Our first question comes from David Schneider, a private investor. Please go ahead.

Yes, hi. I have to apologize initially because I actually have seven questions. As far as the development agreement with the automotive OEM, what do you think might be the soonest that I could buy a vehicle with your technology in it, as far as the year?

Yes, they're targeting production-ready devices from us in 2025. So, I would think it’s 2025 or 2026, depending on the timing of when they roll those out.

Okay. That's really not that far away, especially from an investment point of view. The automakers are really focused on, how do they shorten that cycle for getting their electric vehicle products out. It's just – they can't follow the traditional five-year path. They just – they don't have that luxury. Yes. I've noticed that breakthrough technologies and electrification often emerge in areas other than the auto industry, like motorcycles. It's somewhat surprising to me, and I'm curious if you're in discussions with any motorcycle companies.

We're not really engaged with the motorcycle folks but what we are engaged with are – and there are actually companies that are already in our sampling program that are focused on commercial vehicles, delivery trucks, buses, and so forth, where the standards are a little bit different, but there's a desire for electrification there as well.

I'm curious if the number of B-TRAN modules per vehicle would differ between a sedan and an SUV. This could give us a rough idea of the potential pricing for a B-TRAN module and the associated margins. How many modules do you typically install per vehicle, and does this number vary?

It will vary, because the number of modules will be a function of what's the rating size of the battery, which will drive the total voltage and current you have to support. But also it depends on the topology that they use, because one of the things that B-TRAN enables is some different topologies than what can be done with conventional semiconductor devices. So there's a couple of factors that come into play that really reflect some of the novelty that we see some of the automakers pursuing to come up with a differentiated high-performance approach to the vehicles that they bring out.

Okay. And Toyota is hedging its bets on electrification. They've got – they're spending a lot of money on researching hydrogen as a fuel. So is there any role for B-TRAN in hydrogen fuel vehicles?

Yes, absolutely. The fuel cells, when they produce the energy, I mean, it's in a basically a lower voltage DC form depending on how big the fuel cell stack is that ultimately has to go through power switches to convert to different voltages and convert DC to AC, or again AC back to DC depending on how they've configured their systems. So there would definitely be a role for us. It wouldn't be as big as if we were a key component of the drivetrain in a conventional battery, but there's definitely a role for B-TRAN in hydrogen vehicles.

Okay. That's very good. And is it as a result of you getting, let's say, more visibility in the engineering community, because you're getting more partners, are you finding that engineers are starting to reach out to you?

Yes. It's – we're seeing it's slowly starting to improve. As people are becoming aware of the technology and things like the award that we won with our APAC Paper and so forth, it's raising the visibility where people want to learn more and it's just getting some inbound people responding to some of our job postings rather than having to find them through a recruiter. The downside of that is the capability of our technical team is very high. So, the standards of who they're willing to hire to work with is also extremely high. So, it's getting better but it's nice to actually see some people reaching out to us rather than having to rely on recruiters to try and find people.

Yes. I don't think there's downside to having super highly qualified engineers at your firm.

Well, the fact is that not doing a good job is high. So we're particular.

I believe that larger vehicles equipped with B-TRAN would have a more significant impact. For instance, with something like a General Motors' Humvee or Hummer, the weight plays a role, and I would assume that B-TRAN could be more beneficial in larger vehicles. Is that accurate?

Yes. You're correct. That's part of why, rather than looking at the motorcycles, we've been focusing more on the commercial vehicles and buses as people get in the sampling program in addition to just the passenger vehicles.

Okay. I understand that there is a significant effort in the electrification of buses. I will step aside now to let others ask questions. Thank you.

Okay.

Thanks, Dan and Tim.

The next question comes from Kelly Serman, private investor. Please go ahead.

Hey, guys, congrats on today's announcement. That's great stuff.

Thank you.

The drivetrain at the company you talked about today, are they only going to be making drivetrains for themselves, or is this going to be an opportunity where they will actually be selling them on the open market?

We don't see anybody yet that are the big established automakers wanting to do that, but it doesn't mean it won't change as part of their own strategies to build volume. This is an automaker that has multiple brands that you would recognize. So I think they're looking for what are the platforms that they want to start with and how can they build those platforms out within the rest of the brands that they manufacture.

Okay. And on July 20, 2021, you guys announced a top 10 automaker in the sampling program. Is this a different automaker than what you announced on July 20, 2021?

Yes, it is. We now have two of the top 10 global automakers engaged with us in one way or another. This represents a deeper level of engagement since we are going to create a custom module with them. However, the one we previously announced is a different automaker.

Okay. Where do we stand with them right now as far as moving the ball forward?

They are signing up for the sampling program; our teams have met with them. And then basically as soon as we get through our deliveries for NAVSEA, we'll be shipping them parts and drivers for their evaluation. Hopefully, we can build that into a custom module program like the one we just announced today.

Okay. And then where do we stand with the power management company? Is that progressing along nicely?

Yeah, it is. Part of this is our teams kind of have to work together one for us to get them up to speed on B-TRAN and how it operates, but also for us to learn their application a little bit, so we can guide them to how to incorporate it and get the most out of it. So the folks that we've got engaged in the program, a lot of them are still in that learning curve process where we're making them smarter about the device so they can do their own circuit design and simulation work to get ready to get devices in hand. So as they test in the context of their application, they hit the ground running.

Okay. And the last one I got, for the EV charging companies. I know you guys have someone in the sampling program. At the last trade show, bi-directionality was one of the number one topics at the show. Are you seeing a significant number of inbound activity from the EV charging company? Because I'm surprised that you only have one in the sample program right now. Do you anticipate that number to grow quickly?

Yeah, we do. I think the early EV charging stations that were being put out there were really all about how do you get something out there to satisfy the demand. But what's happening now is I think part of what's driving all this discussion of bi-directionality with them is they're finding that for a lot of these locations, particularly in urban areas, they have a couple of storage batteries to deal with mitigating the demand charges where people want to charge their vehicle during peak utility rates. So the offerings from the EV charging companies are getting a little bit more sophisticated. They're having more capability and it drives the need for a little better solutions than just taking the conventional semiconductor devices and designing a one-way charging system.

How far along are you with the company that's currently sampling? How far along are you with them?

Most of them are probably to the point where they're ready for us to give them devices. We've got a couple of more we're doing some circuit analysis with them. But as soon as we complete the NAVSEA deliveries, we've got several that are ready to go.

Okay. Congratulations again, you guys. Very proud of the job you guys are doing. Keep it up.

Thank you very much, Kelly.

It appears there are no further questions at this time. Mr. Brdar, I'd like to turn the conference back to you for any additional or closing remarks.

I just want to thank everybody for joining our call. We will be participating in the Benchmark Discovery Conference in December and hope to be able to speak with those that are in attendance. In the meantime, have a happy and safe holiday season, and we look forward to giving you another update on our fourth quarter call.

This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation and you may now disconnect.