to Needham's 20th Annual Growth Conference. I'm Ryan Kuntz, I cover the communications and networking sector here at Needham. Really pleased to be introducing Kaltura today, sorry. And we've got CEO Ron Yucatil. Ron, step on up and welcome. Thank you, my friend, appreciate it.

Okay, folks, good afternoon, happy new year belated for those of you who haven't met me yet. My name is Ron Yucatil, I'm one of the founders of Kaltura, chairman and CEO. Let me tell you about the company. So it's a NASDAQ ticker, KLTR, been public since 2021. The company has been around for about 19 years in the video space and have been emerging since into more AI-infused video experiences and most recently into what's called immersive agents, which I'm going to tell you what they do, and you're going to see a few in play. So for those who have been tracking us over the years, this is the product suite that we've been offering. At the bottom are the platforms. They are API-filled systems for video content management and TV content management. And on top of them, five families of products. On the left, video portal. Lack of other words, it's kind of a corporate YouTube. Enables you to upload content, manage it, transcript it, search down to the spoken word, and a lot of different activities for user-generated content within organizations. So it's right, LMS and CMS are plugins into learning systems like Blackboard, Moodle, Canvas, etc. etc. To that right, virtual events and webinars, you see the color changing. We entered that market in 2021, 2020, and actually the very first large event we did was AWS reinvented the height of COVID with 600,000 registrants, 300,000 participants with Andy and Jesse on stage, and we ran that event and have done many since for many organizations. Virtual classroom is more real-time conferencing aspects in the classroom, specifically tailored for teachers, and then TV streaming apps are run on our TV content management system. It's the equivalent kind of the Xfinity X1 by Comcast, but we do that overseas for large players like Vodafone. To give you a feel how we've added AI, this is actually the LMS version integration where we added a product called Genie that nowadays enables people to ask questions, let's see you're a student, and get answers from within all the videos in the database, and they pick the specific seconds within each one of the videos that relate to the person. So when you consider historically initiatives like the Khan Academy where people can have dynamic learning and they can get access to what they need to know when they need to know it, you can see this generates real-time quizzes and inserts that. So it's hyper-personalized video experiences enabling you also to better create value out of your existing database, right? Because if you're learning at Harvard, we power many universities, There are a trillion hours of videos out there available. You don't know what to look for. This enables you to get the right content at the right time. Another example of AI stuff that we've been doing recently, this is our virtual event. You now, as a speaker, can take action to further engage people. It automatically recommends to you what polls to create in real time, depending on interest levels of people based on the chat communication. It creates a poll. You could look at engagement rates. It could look at the analytics out there and what people are acting on and how they're acting on. And after the event, you could also create clips using AI, which break down what you have into shorter clips. And you could generate them based on whatever rules you want to do and deliver that to the audience so that they could see what it is that's relevant for them. So these are just a few examples. And over the last two years, we've been adding a lot of AI capabilities into our full suite. We've been winning a lot of awards, including for the AI stuff that we've done. This is the most recent one around the enterprise video platform world coming from Frost & Sullivan from October the passing year. And you can see we're up in the top right. These are the customers that we've been catering, about 850 of them, crossing from tech to education, regulated industries, commercial, manufacturing, professional services, large media, telecom. Look at the names. To give you a feel, we're powering many events for Amazon since we've done reInvent. We're powering teaching and learning and training for customers for Adobe. We're powering GTC for NVIDIA. So all the virtual stuff there is ours. Dreamforce for Salesforce and many other video activities and what's called Salesforce Plus. All the videos that Oracle and SAP are running on Kultura. Not just events, just the full bank of videos and everything else. Schools, 400 plus schools, most of your alma mater as I expect are in there. We run the entire video management of that. So that means there'd be a teams or a zoom to record stuff But then it falls on Kotura as a content management system and we insert that into the lifecycle for video For Jeff or learning top banks and again, you've seen some of the names here They're quite quite large What's also nice is that over the years people have been consolidating on Kotura and are acquiring multiple products and their average ARR per customers You can see at the bottom right is increasing in the left You're seeing a graph that shows how many products they're consuming that's up into the right So we're a very horizontal platforming product. People use this across four main use cases. In our financial reports, we refer to two go-to-market motions, one for E&T on the left, which is enterprise education and tech, and one for M&T, media and telecom, which is a bit of a different duck, given the sales cycles, the gross margin behavior, a lot of different things. So we treat them a bit differently, but to get a feel how people take all these capabilities and use them They use them for marketing not just for events now a big and very popular thing is ABM account based marketing It's how you deliver content in your dot-com site that the content hubs people use that to enable their sales teams and training and customer care Likewise for teaching and learning across the entire flow Communication collaboration, etc. So a lot of different use cases. Why do people historically use Kotura? So the first on the left is the amount of AI data and insights. I've shown you a few of these exciting things, but generally these analytics are very actionable and they're very agentic. We have a lot of workflows that I haven't shown you here that automate the process from content creation through engagement and all in between. It could be within a push of a button, so it saves costs and creates further engagement. And then most recently, you're going to see pretty soon the agentic avatar product that we've launched and generated personalized UI. So a lot of stuff on the left. But it doesn't end there. We are a large enterprise vendor, and as such, are very much geared to going deep into the enterprise, into their workflows, offering a wide array of APIs. In fact, our company is an API-first company. When we started offering our products, it was the APIs, and we wrapped them into products. So it's like a Lego kit for video management, so everything could run really deep, flexible, modular, ease of integration, and enables to put best-of-breed components and connect that to third-party systems. So it's a large enterprise play. Just to compare, when there are some other video companies that you've seen in that graph there with all the different comparisons, Vimeo or some of the other video technology companies, they offer two large enterprises in ARP of about 20K a year, where we're at 200K a year on average. Much more mission-critical, much more robust, much more strategic. It doesn't end by going deep. we also run wide hence the unified platform and I mentioned earlier the two or three products per customer that they put together and we go across multiple products and use cases and that enables to have much less vendors far less silos complexities costs etc and lastly given the nature of the companies that I just mentioned very enterprisable reliable scalable secure and accessible going through all the appsec requirements and everything else so had I been Speaking to you through the middle of last year, this is more or less where it would have ended, right? Number one, video technology company, top and to the right, bringing the experiences of consumer like a YouTube into the enterprise, engaging employees, learning, training, marketing, sales. And that's an okay industry. It hasn't grown much in recent years. We're going to get to the numbers. Historically, it's been a nice grower, but over the last three or four years, all the companies in the video industry have gone flat. Some have gone down. Some are flat. Some are slightly up. We've maintained slightly up. but it hasn't materially grown. Why is that? There's some commoditization taking place with Google and with Microsoft and with Zoom and others. There's been downward pressure in the different markets, but generally speaking, videos and enabling technology for the purpose of engaging people have been okay, but a lukewarm industry to be in. Our view from a couple years back is that as AI revolution hits, there's an opportunity not just to hyper-target video, but to be able to take that to leapfrog into becoming the main customer experience and employee experience platform. We believed and understood that gradually video is going to be the medium for conversation as you're going to see right here in a second. And as it becomes a medium for conversation, we could insert into the conversational video realm all of the logic in an immersive way to make that the central place that people would use in order to learn, market, sell, et cetera. And then we're basically coming out of a redder ocean into a bluer ocean of immersive virtual agents. And this is the age of immersive virtual agents. Everybody's talking about agents. We're talking about immersive agents. These are not just regular agents that you could write and maybe talk to. These are agents that you could see. They're hyper realistic. You could use your favorite animated character, but generally speaking, it is completely immersive. Let's see a short video and then a few demos.

A new kind of connection is emerging, where communication becomes responsive, alive, and intelligent. Now, for the first time, that intelligence takes form with a face, a voice, eyes, and ears. Kaltura's AI video experience cloud is evolving, expanding the genie family into real-time conversational agents. These aren't chatbots. They're agentic avatars, photorealistic, multilingual, and hyper-personalized.

We listen, see, speak, and respond in real time.

Comprendemos el contexto, el tono y la intención. We don't just deliver information, we engage.

Built on the foundation, Kaltura has perfected. Video at enterprise scale, secure, integrated, and intelligent. Our virtual agents go beyond conversation. They show, they draw on rich media, avatar-based, AI-generated video content, dynamic visuals, and contextual information to connect language, motion, and meaning. With deep intelligence across every frame, every interaction, and every experience, they understand context and act on it in real time. And they don't work alone. These agents are deeply integrated into enterprise workflows, connecting with CX and EX systems, data sources, and business tools to serve, assist, and amplify across every customer and employee journey. They elevate, not replace. taking the routine so humans can think create and connect technology and people advancing together offered within kaltura's video experience products and a standalone self-serve experiences embeddable into any website or application they deliver intelligence wherever interaction happens they qualify leads they guide customers they train employees they teach students they engage viewers they bring organizations to life through conversations that feel human and real From global enterprises to growing teams, enabling real-time connection that's emotional and measurable. Kaltura, powering immersive virtual agents and experiences for organizations.

So let's have a little talk with tomorrow and speak to some of these agents. Again, the agents, the way they come out is their specific roles, specific tasks. It could be a recruiter, an onboarder, a trainer, somebody for internal communication or a help desk or externally facing with marketing, sales, support, entertainment. It could be vertically focused around real estate. They could be focused around health care before and after surgery. And they could reduce costs and increase efficiency, increase productivity, increase gains, increase revenue. Let's have a look at these. Let's click on the first link, please. Thank you for your assistance in the back. And we're going to have one of our first agents. This is an example of reInvent. Let's say we've gone to reInvent. We've then left reInvent.

And we want to talk a bit about what we may have missed let's speak to our agent hey there how was reInvent i can help you recap all the key highlights and learn more on aws ready to start yes i am can you hear me i can hear you loud and clear let's dive into the highlights from reinvent 2025 which of these would you like to explore first well actually i'm curious about tranium 3 ultra please here's the summary about Tranium 3 Ultra Server's launch, announcing the general availability of Tranium 3 Ultra Servers, featuring the very first 3-nanometer AI chip in the AWS cloud. Tranium 3 delivers the industry's best price performance for large-scale AI training, offering 4.4x more compute and 5 times more AI tokens per megawatt than Tranium 2. Would you like to explore another highlight?

No, thank you. Could you go back to the list, please, of the different topics?

Of course. Here are the highlights from reInvent 2025 again. Which one catches your eye now?

Yeah, I appreciate that. You know what? We just had a Japanese guy step into the room and he does not speak English. Could you switch to Japanese, please? And maybe show me this list in Japanese as well.

Hi, I'm sorry. ReInvent 2025's highlight is in Japanese.

Sorry, could you switch to Hindi, please?

Namaste. I can speak in Hindi. ReInvent 2025 has been given here in 2015.

This is fantastic. Let's go back to English and tell me more about the Kaltura and AWS partnership, please.

Certainly. Kaltura and AWS have a strong partnership. Here are some of the key use cases.

Okay. Which one would you like to know more about? Let's exit this and move to the next demo for a second. And just let's hit stop. Not this one. Let's go to link and click on the second in that page, in that slide. So there's a lot of things you could do. And what you do, and I'll show you later how you do that, you actually define the role of the person. And a very quick, well, let's start conversation. This lady here is an Egyptologist. And part of what you're going to see here is also generative images, not just generative video that's created on the fly.

Hi, Sabrina, you're a history teacher. Are you ready to uncover the mysteries of ancient Egypt?

Hi, Sabrina. Can you hear me?

Yes, I can hear you perfectly. It is a pleasure to meet you. I am Sabrina, and I am excited to guide you through the captivating history of Egypt. What aspect of Egypt's past are you most curious about today?

Tell me about the pyramids, please.

The pyramids of Egypt are among the most iconic and awe-inspiring structures ever built, primarily serving as tombs for pharaohs and queens. The Great Pyramid of Giza, built for Pharaoh Khufu, Could you tell me about Moses? I am sorry, but I cannot provide information about molasses as my expertise.

Not molasses, Moses, Moses.

It seems there might be a slight misunderstanding in the name you mentioned. Could you please clarify the name? Perhaps spell it out for me.

Yeah, yeah, this bad audio.

Thank you for clarifying. Moses is a pivotal figure in religious history, traditionally known for leading the Israelites out of slavery in Egypt, as recounted in the book of Exodus. His story is deeply intertwined with ancient Egypt.

Okay, let's get out of this demo. You can see real-time generated images, real-time generated video clips. If we do this in some of the use cases, again, we'll be short today on time. The third one, which I'm going to skip right now, given time, would show you how you could speak to an agent and share a screen and they understand what you're looking at and direct you on what to click, what to do, and walk you through your experiences as well. So it not only listens, it not only has a face, it also has eyes and it sees what you do. In the next version, it's going to take over as well. It could walk you through it, click you through the different screens. It could be a full helper. I want to show you how the actual studio works, and maybe I'll tell you how to click in the back, and maybe you can help me out. So when you get, as a large enterprise, we work with you with APIs, and we're going to work with some of the bigger companies out there that we work with today that are very intrigued to use this for account-based marketing and for training, for a lot of different things in integrated ways. But right today, you could go and start creating these avatars. If you click on create an avatar in the bottom left, please, you could actually drag and drop a photo, We just did this earlier. Ryan looked like a role model, like a supermodel. We did this in the earlier meeting in the morning, and we put it there, and then had you explain to everybody why you use Needham, right? So that was engaging. And you could put your audio, you could put anybody else's audio. You could choose from existing libraries. You could put your small little audio snippet, and you could get it there. And then let's go up to agent one, if you want to click. You basically define what the knowledge bases are you upload content if you scroll down you define things like the goals What you're trying to achieve and you with a lot of different other restrictions, and then you hit play for example this is for the zodiac signs you want to click on this and We define to her that she needs to and start a conversation including personas We did that earlier was a lot of fun That if you're supposed to be more polite less polite more out there Hey there, stargazer.

I'm Luna Skye, here to reveal what the universe has in store for you. What's your sign?

Hey, Luna. I'm Aquarius.

Aquarius, the rebel of the zodiac. Are you currently plotting to overthrow something, or is that just a Tuesday for you?

So you could shut it down. So character, everything you want to do, it's all part of the definitions and all part of the logic. Let's go back to the presentation. I think we get it. Appreciate that, let me click forward. So what are we doing this year? So we've started adding this to our suite of products, and the way it connects, it runs across and touches all of our products, but people could use this as standalone, and people that require full-blown agents could use this for all their different purposes. So we power most of the universities out there, and the universities need teacher assistants. And imagine that this is a teacher assistant that basically understands you, knows how you study, what you need to learn, what's the classwork, is able to work with you. I didn't show you in this demo. There's another demo. Could use a whiteboard session, actually give you questions, answers, automatic quizzes, everything else that you need, and basically performs that. What are we going to do over the course of the year? We're launching the conversational avatars, but we're adding into it more advanced generative UI, more hypertext and infographics and whiteboarding. We're adding more playbooks around the actual agentic flows for how do you actually market and sell and do different things in partnership with the big companies that we work with. And we're integrating that further, not just with our own product, but with other systems. Because this is not supposed to be the system of record or the place of truth. We're taking all the content from the CRMs and the DAMs and the CMSs and pulling it in and then creating the agentic experiences and bringing them back into that. We're also launching an SDK that would enable other, quote-unquote, brains to be able to connect into this. So you don't need to just use a Kotura brain. So if you have your own LLM or your own database or anything else that you want to use. And lastly, we're actually on our way to build VOD-based avatar for those that know companies like Synthesia that just said no to a $3 billion acquisition and got $4 billion valuation from Google. This is something we can do on the way later this year with this technology. This is the last of several expansions that we've done as a company that led us here. We did start as a content management company. We've moved through experiences, and now we're getting into becoming a full-blown CX and AX platform that is really relying on immersive agents and on real-time content generation. We see this as extremely exciting. We are starting on a bed of $180 million of revenue. It has been a very flat industry, again, for everybody on the video world, but we're not starting at ground zero. A lot of companies are trying to build agents. They're not immersive, and they're also starting from scratch. We have a relationship with the biggest companies on earth, and we're not starting at ground zero. That said, here are the revenues of past years. You can see that recent years, as noted, kind of a low single-digit growth, and we're at 181. By the way, the bulk majority of it subscription and recurring. By the way, if you look at the deeper, it's a bit of a tale of two cities because the media side of the business, you remember I told you there's a division there, that's the bulk of our business, is actually growing a bit faster. And right now, the media part had been declining this year for multiple reasons. It's going to bounce back, but this is where it's at. A little bit about profitability. When we IPO'd the company, the tale of growing nicely and looking good, and then things turn around, we started reducing costs, and we've also, by then, have achieved what we wanted operationally, so we're able to come back to being profitable. We were profitable before on an adjusted EBITDA basis and cash flow basis. We're back to that now. This is the latest guidance for the year. Of course, all the numbers here are based on the November guide, and you can see where this is headed. And we also said that we're going to continue to be an and company. it's not just about growth, it's about profitability as well. A little bit of other numbers, this is the rule of. Again, we were a rule of 30 company, and prior to that, strong numbers and profitability. This is with adjusted EBITDA margin. Right now, we're back from a very deep hole when profitability went very negative to a positive, but that's without acceleration. Acceleration kicks in and continued profitability kicks in. We hope and expect that this number will grow. It's a bit more data here if you're interested about gross margins and R&D, S&M, G&A, some of the longer term trends. We do expect to continue to go up to about 75. In the last five years, we grew our gross margins all the way from 61 to 71 in five years. So we've been good at expanding not just the bottom line, but also the gross margin lines. And that's where we're headed. So wrapping up investment thesis, and I'm the most objective person on earth to convince you why you should invest in Koutura, but here goes. First of all, leading tech. So we've been for a time a leader in the video technology realm and we're now getting into this cutting-edge agentic avatars. I could quote some of the leaders of this industry including for places like NVIDIA saying quote this is a wow moment this is the best we've seen out there and we've seen a lot. So this is right now the top of the heap of being able to deliver very real-time engaging avatar experiences. I believe the combination is really exciting. It is a large and growing TAM. Our original TAM is quite large given the breadth of what we offer as a technology company integration into workflows across many verticals and industries and you've seen the logos that we have but right now we're expanding from the world of video experiences into the virtual immersive virtual agent world so that brings us into the cxcx markets which are vast we have very very prestigious long tenor and diversified customers and now we are upselling them with the new product offering that we have the same buyers similar use cases so when we sell to AWS or to Adobe or to Salesforce or to Oracle or to SAP marketing, it's the same people that are now wanting the agentic work for ABM. So we're in the right place and the right time to do that. And of course, I would argue very low valuations. The entire industry of video has gone anywhere towards one times revenue, one point something times revenue. And of course, while growth had tapered down, there's a relationship there. We expect that to gradually change and to hopefully get to a different zip code. But all that said, this industry is right now in a very, very low multiples. If I open up two recent acquisitions that have happened or investment rounds, then Synthesi and the world of VOD avatars have just received the $4 billion valuation that I mentioned that's growing very quickly. We have better technology than they do on a lot of different aspects. And then the other one that to keep an eye on the agentic front qualified that was just acquired by Salesforce were $1.5 billion. That basically is about agents, but adding some immersive stuff there again. We think we could move to neighborhoods that are much more exciting than the current neighborhoods that we're having. That's it. So thank you, and Ron, you're going to take a few minutes.

Super interesting, It's a big move for the company, it really feels like. It really feels like a watershed moment for you. What sort of relationships with your customers? Can you expand a little more on your current customers that you think are most ready to move into this avatar cx model i mean for all of us it's a little weird shocking to talk to people like that and interact we're so used to doing our keyboards but yeah that's a great question so first i'd say that insofar as the expansion we've just made it's not a surprise right luck favors are prepared we've been working on this for a long time we've been talking about this for a long time and if you remember the last investor day in March when we said, again, we're going to become the CX company.

We're going to add more hyper-personality capabilities. We didn't spell out the avatar word, but we said we're going to go in that direction. We're doing exactly what we said we're going to do. To the customer question, keep on remembering when telephones came out, right? And Bell and all the other telephone companies needed to convince people to use telephones. And people said, why are they going to use this? Do you want to meet somebody? Do you want to talk to somebody?

Why are you going to take them out of the phone.

It was a reach out to, you know, someone. So when chatbots came out, that wasn't a great success initially, and it was a four-letter word initially. The whole idea of chatting with a chatbot seemed something like it doesn't make sense. That became popular. And then the audio bots came up, and then everybody's using audio in their bots. So we do think that video is going to make sense in a lot of different cases. Not all, but a lot. And to your question, there are many cases where there's a sense of intimacy that you need to have, whether it is a teacher that listens to you, whether it is health care, whether it is pertaining to a certain personal care that you'd like. We're not 100% sure where they're at. It's going to be surprising things when it pops up, but it'll be a share of the market. I don't think that every single use case will require to have video on the front. But also remember, it's not just about the video piece. Because in addition to the physical avatar, and we're also doing the audio piece, you can decorate it down to audio, it is about the rest of the content that is being hyper-personalized and delivered. So the content itself, supportive content around your specific video clips, your specific pieces of immersive content that's generated on the fly, is not just about the person talking to you. It's about the content you receive. So we think we'll take a nice share of the market. But it's too early to say, I can tell you that we are in touch with some of the biggest and best companies out there. There's a lot of excitement.

And you're not doing your own LLMs behind this. You're using third party.

So we have our own speech-to-text, text-to-speech, and speech-to-video models. The core core LLM is running on the classic LLMs out there. We have pieces with different types of LLMs. But no, that's not our play. It is the orchestration layer and some key models that support that. The reason, by the way, we need some of these key models is because the real timeness of the video and how it's generated at this point of time requires something else. It's a fact that it's not out there in any technology at this level. Down the road, it wouldn't be just about the video piece of putting the face and making sure it works. It's about orchestrating all of this together.

And did you go to market for change a whole lot to pivot or to expand into this area? What's that selling cycle going to be like, you think? for adding this new front end, so to speak?

So yes and no. So we're starting from SLG, from a sales-led growth with our enterprise sales team that's really good at closing enterprise deals. And we're selling the same use cases, same buyers, same industries. And so that doesn't require a complete change. Some things are changing. Number one, we're getting a lot more interest of the velocity and the amount of leads. So what's happening now is we're turning from defense to offense a lot of our salespeople. A lot of them have been more into supporting existing customers and ensuring that there is retention. And now we're more into selling both existing and new. Hunters, farmers, we've split and changed the way people go out. So there's a lot more outbound. The other thing is we're getting into a much more verticalized approach. And we've always had verticalization for education and media. But then we had enterprise with a full bucket, in part because the industry, again, wasn't growing fast enough to start splitting everything to smaller pieces. Now we are in the process of splitting it to small pieces. And we're putting targets with, here are the top 100 banks. Here are the top 100 insurance companies, etc. And we already have the halo effect with some of the biggest in the era. So from that perspective, the last one I'd say is there is a PLG product-led growth self-serve motion here that is different than what we've historically done. And that does require we've bought some more talent here, and we intend to do that. Because in addition to the large top-down enterprise sales, you could cast a net, put the SDKs, the software development kit, and let people just use it and then come back to you. And the Sam would eventually go to some of these agents that will start with the sales-led growth but ultimately will be packaged to be complete self-served. That requires a different DNA and a different type of marketing, different type of sellmanship, and we're engaged in that to get that done.

Expand a little more on the self-service kind of model versus deep integration workflows with large customers. Those are two pretty different directions. Which one do you think is going to take traction first?

Start with large enterprise, which, by the way, It's easier to come top down than bottom up, and we've done that. We've conquered the Everest, if you may, some of the biggest companies on earth, and the other folks that are in these type of things. I mentioned Synthesia earlier. They're coming from PLG, and they don't have these large enterprise deals or large enterprise customers or relationships in place, let alone in similar and adjacent use case buyers, et cetera. So it's an easy add-on to our current MSAs and relationships and enterprise-ability and all that good stuff. But generally speaking, the difference is when you go on, let's say, now and work with any one of the large customers with NVIDIA or with an Amazon or with a top university or whatever it is, we sit with them and define what the agentic need is and how it looks and how it connects into the workflows and what third-party systems are required. And you build the whole thing to be able to address a very strategic agentic move. After you do a few of these, you figure out, can you dumb it down to do something that would apply to SMBs? Could you bring it down to what would be relevant for much smaller organizations? It could be other systems, et cetera, but you package them. And then with the halo effect of some of the big accounts that we've landed, then you can move on to that. So it's different. We're not arguing that in 2026 we will have a big motion around PLG, but we're going to start that motion. We're going to start with the SDK. And then I believe that after we see what are the top use cases, when we know there's a product market fit for the exactness of here's an SDR in a box, here's a teacher in a box, and you got 90% with a few open options, and you could change different things, then we could just sell it as is. And people could use a credit card, and you could download it. These things are completely embeddable, and they could run anywhere. So it doesn't need to run in a cultural environment. It could run on your website. It can run anywhere. It could be connected to a third-party dam or CMS. So you have an agent that could be anywhere.

Kind of a side question, but are there any legal issues around IP and people's face and likeness type of deal when you have an avatar up there? No, they have the option.

So obviously, look, everybody's a bit touchy on AI, right?

That's okay. I mean, there's aspects around AI, and we do this because we're, again, with the large enterprises with AI functionalities. But conceptually, number one, we don't train any of the LNs on anything that's not related to your specific organization, so there's no cross-pillage. Number two, insofar as content hallucinations, you can choose at any given point where the data is coming from. And if the data is coming from only the organizational data and you close it to any external data, then you know that the data is going to be 100% controlled by what's in the organization. So we're down that. And so far as cameras, if they're on, if they're up, if you're giving a photo, if you're not giving a photo, everything goes through opt-in, permissions, people choose, there's moderation, there's everything. So we do the classic ways to ensure that this works. Awesome.

And what's the competitive landscape here as you add the CX experience. It's got to be quite a... A, you've seen some folks exit your core business. The core business, yeah. And what does this new expanded TAM look like on the competitive landscape?

Yeah, I don't know the number, and it's always nice to pick a number and throw it out there, and it's huge. But we were at the video world. We had assessed it as about a $13 billion TAM based on three sub-markets, which is video content management, cloud TV, and webcasting and events. But that's our historical market. By the way, everything we're adding here strengthens our advantages in that market as well. Not only were we top right quadrant, you've seen the graphs, et cetera, we've been winning awards, but now adding these agents on top of the core capability and the VOD avatar content creation, et cetera, gives us a leg up even there. But it opens up two markets, one interim one, which is the avatar industry, which is not huge, but they're getting very nice valuations, right? So it's companies like Synthesia, another small one called Tavu's, another one called HeyGen. So there's a few of these companies, they're small, but they're starting from scratch and they don't have any enterprise sales, they don't have any enterprise customers, we're coming with all these enterprise customers, even when they've sold to the big logos, it's departmental small sales with much lower ARPUs, we're coming as the big guy in this pond with all these new technology with the number one conversational, if not VOD, conversational technology to this. So that's a market that it's not clear what that value on it is, but if Cintesa is worth $4 billion, it's just something for a company that was just started a few years back. The third is the full CX agent. So you can take Qualified that was acquired by Salesforce as an example, but any other agent out there that's not necessarily related to video. We are leapfrogging from video through avatars to CX. And if you think about the vision and the mission and the statement that historically was to be a leading video technology company, it is now powering immersive virtual agents to promote customer experiences. So we're going to add also more capabilities, more IP around the CX part. So it doesn't just have the nice face and a very interactive conversational mode, but a strong brain to be that full end-to-end ABM engine. and then we're going to be that full-on CX suite to connect with the sales forces of the world, with the Adobe's of the world, and to be their agentic phase towards an immersive experience. Well, exciting new things are ahead.

Yeah, never dull moment.

Yeah, thanks so much, Ron.

Thank you, appreciate it.