Merit Medical Systems Inc (MMSI) September 2026 Conference Transcript

I'm Larry Beigelson, the MedTech Analyst at Wells Fargo, and it's my pleasure to host this Fireside Chat with the management team from Merit Medical. With us, we have Martha Aronson, the President and CEO, and Raul Parra, the CFO. Martha and Raul, thanks for being here.

Thanks for having us, Larry.

I think this is your first one with us. It is with you, yes.

Excited to be here.

We're excited to have you. So, Martha, let's start with a couple of big picture questions. You're almost a year into the CEO role. What has gone well during your tenure, and what areas would you like to improve going forward?

Well, I think what has gone well is, as most of you know who've been following the Merit medical story, we were founder-led for 38 years, and now we are in what we call our founder-inspired phase, with our founder having retired. And I think what's gone well is that through the transition, the team has continued to deliver, And Merit has a history of delivering quarter after quarter, and the team stayed very focused on that despite the leadership transition. So very pleased about that. And as you know, delivered a nice Q2 with about 9% growth. So very pleased about that. And so the story going forward is really what I call one of evolution, not revolution, right? That it's just we're evolving as we grow to be even more global and as we work to scale. The things to work on are really what I put in the maturation category. They're just some systems and processes that need to mature as we move forward. So I'd say those are the areas we're kind of working on.

That's helpful. So you've been going through a strategic planning process at Merit. And I know you're going to disclose the results today. But where are you in the process and when will you share the results?

Yeah, I'd probably say we're about, you know, maybe we're at the seventh inning stretch. So we're getting close. The team's been doing a lot of work. We're really I have really asked for a pretty rigorous review of trying to, you know, as you know, we have a lot of products. We call on a lot of different medical specialties. So I think it's really asking each platform to dig in and understand globally where do we have the right to win, where are the gaps in our product lines, where might there be places that we have products that no longer make sense for us to have those products. Those are all the big questions we're really asking our teams to try to go out and answer. So there's been a ton of work going on over the last several months. And so we're nearing the end of that. And then obviously we'll spend some time with our board of directors reviewing that strategy with all of them. And then we'll bring out a new long-range plan to our shareholders. So the timing of that exactly, we don't know for sure. At the latest, certainly our Q4 call in February, possibly sooner. Stay tuned on that.

Okay. Possibly sooner. Possibly. 2026 is a possibility or it's probably going to bleed into 20 probably bleed into 27 okay um okay um so merit participates in i think eight different segments which seems like a lot for a company of your size you talked about a lot of different call points you know so would you agree and could we see changes to the segments well again i mean yeah so the way we're currently organized is by these eight platforms as as we talk about them and uh and we're excited because again, we're now reporting that, right, very consistently with how we're managing the business.

And I think that actually drives increased ownership by our platform leaders. So I'm very excited about that. Again, a little premature for us to say, you know, where each one is headed as we go into next year. But suffice it to say, as we said, every platform, I think it's fair to say sort of everything's on the table. There are no sacred cows. So what I'm excited about is that the organization is really having, I'd say, a great amount of, I call it, healthy debate, good, vigorous discussion, and back and forth on are there certain product lines that maybe don't make sense anymore, or we still need them, but maybe de-emphasized a bit because they are part of a bigger procedure. Those are all the discussions that are happening, and I'm really pleased that they're happening globally.

And what are the metrics that you're going to use to evaluate product families, for example, as a goal? What's the overarching goal? Is it to increase the weighted average market growth of the company?

Yeah, I mean, I think the goals, right, are as they've always been. I mean, although I'd say maybe the new lens we're looking through is on various procedures, right? So if you take embolizations as one example, I mean, that's an area where we do feel like we provide products throughout the entire procedure. You know, that's something we really like, right? And there may be other procedures where that's possible. At the same time, right, there are plenty of procedures where we're not the primary device in a procedure, but we are what we call the enablers or the supporting actors, and that's a really good lane for us to stay in, right, sort of swimming alongside the really big fish, if you will, and filling a lot of holes in terms of many of the products that are really necessary for those procedures but may not be the primary implant, for example. So, again, we're looking at things strategically. We're looking financially. What's the margin profile of various products? We're looking at market share. We're looking at who are we competing against. Again, do we have the right to win? That's really the framework we're using.

It all makes sense. But one last question on this. You talked about evolution, not revolution. The process you're going through, again, makes sense. But it sounds like a lot. So how do you kind of, investors could be listening and say, wow, there could be some big changes coming, and that could be disruptive? How do you manage that as a public company?

Yeah. Again, I mean, I think it can sound like a lot because we have such a broad portfolio, and that's why I think it really is important to break it down by each individual platform. And if you start to do that, then you're talking about really smaller chunks of, if you will, in some cases, maybe a $100 million platform today. In other cases, maybe it's up to half a billion is probably our biggest platform currently. And so you kind of have to think of those almost as individual strategic business units. Then I think it doesn't feel as vast in terms of or as dramatic, if you will, in terms of change. So if each portfolio does a little bit of tweaking here and there, again, I think as you look across the entire company, you won't see anything overly dramatic.

Okay, that's helpful. So let's talk about CGI and what comes next. Continue. That's continuing growth initiative is that right yeah okay and before that it was foundations for growth and i know you're going to come up with a catchy new uh phrase for the next uh lrp yeah um but i guess but you won't share that today unfortunately we're not going to share that today um but what are the metrics how are the metrics going to be similar or different like i think both for foundations for growth brawl and cgi they were the same revenue margins i think and maybe you added free cash flow for yeah for both should we it sounds like martha from the last call that the the metrics might be different well i think again we're still finalizing that so not ready to say um i think it's fair to say though that the metrics we've used that the companies used in

the last two um have worked pretty well for us so in some regard there's a good argument that says there's no need to change um so again we're not ready to say what it's going to be but But I think chances are you would still see the ones you've seen before. We may add something to it. Again, that's really a discussion that we're still having and that we would have with the board of directors as well. And, you know, as you know, too, Larry, I mean, there will be the metrics that we share externally. And then, of course, there are many, many more that we use internally to drive the business.

OK. And then when we look, you know, people are going to try to figure out, hey, what's the next LRP going to look like? top line's been pretty similar Raoul what five to seven CAGR both of them were both of them yeah yeah the streets at like six percent CAGR you know the next three years if I look at operating margin 50 basis points a year that kind of thing any an EPS growth of about nine going forward any reaction to kind of like consensus yeah well I mean we did nine percent growth obviously for Q2 right I think for the year where it you know you know let's say call it seven to 7.5% organic constant currency, right?

I mean, look, I think no reaction, right? I mean, look, I think for the last five years, six years, we've been talking about five to seven. So the fact that we haven't given any visibility to what, you know, 27 and beyond looks like, you know, having people be at around six, it's not surprising to us. And the operating margin, I think we've been very consistent in saying, look, we've added, you know, by the time CGI is done, if we hit the high end of our goals you're talking about 950 basis point improvement and operating margin you know so seeing you know them out there at 50 basis points not unreasonable given that we just added 950 basis points right or approximately so but yeah we're not ready to kind of you know you know tell you guys what we you know think we can do I think if at a high level you know if you know if everybody's expecting another 400 or 500 basis points you know for the next LRP I'd probably tell you to kind of take a step back you know based on the fact that we've added you know over you know 900 basis points um and so uh but having said that you know there's a lot of you know uh things we're uncovering too and looking at um you know under the strategic planning process that we're doing and so i think it's yet to be determined how much we think we can do but there's nobody at merit sitting around thinking like hey we're done we've squeezed all we can uh we definitely think there's more to be had the question is how much okay all right helpful so let's move to 2026 you raise the full-year guidance on the Q2 call by the amount of the beat left the back half unchanged is that simple you know conservatism or the risks or uncertainties that you're embedding in the second half outlook why I think it's it's it's more you know the first one right I mean look I think that's just the way we've done it historically you know from kind of you know in the middle of the year and then you also look at kind of what's going on in the you know just kind of macro and micro environment right I mean you've got you know the Iran you know kind of you know deal that's out there you got oil prices fluctuating you know you know left and right or up and down you know however you want to say it but you know there's just a lot of moving parts you know tariffs kind of come and go I think from our perspective like look we feel really confident about the guidance that we've put out you know again seven you know to seven and a half percent organic constant currency you know you're talking about 21 21 and a half percent operating margin um and almost 11 14 you know eps growth you know so you're getting the leverage um when you look at kind of the full year guidance that we've put out so um we felt like look let's just push through the uh you know the first half beat which is consistent with what we've historically have done uh that leaves us you know a little bit of room in case you know things you know get you know worse or you know or something happens that you know we can't foresee um and we're covered and we feel confident in the guidance. So I think just generally speaking, it's our approach. I know it tends to be more on the conservative side. We don't like to call it that. We like to call it realistic and achievable guidance that you guys can rely on. And we feel good about it. All right.

Thanks. We're almost halfway through and you haven't used the term kitchen sink yet. Well, I will.

We're just waiting for it.

I might just say it as my closing comment. Okay. There's been a lot of, you know, talk about procedure volume. You don't have capital equipment, right? Pretty small.

Pretty small. Pretty small.

So I think we're asking all the companies just about the procedure environment. You were just at a medical conference, I think, in Europe. But what's your view on the procedure environment? It's mainly a U.S. concern, but global, I'd be happy to hear. Sure.

Yeah. And again, I mean, we have not been hearing issues with procedure volumes. I mean, we've, we've seen them, they've been robust from all the reports we get from our field in the U.S. Obviously, you know, delivering 9% growth in the quarter would confirm that. So yeah, we don't, we don't see signs of that. And, you know, in Europe, as you said, having just been over there last week at one of the big interventional radiology meetings there. Same thing. I mean, in particular, I think, you know, Embolics is a really is growing pretty rapidly, particularly in Europe. So we're seeing we're seeing a lot of good growth there. Now, as you know, it depends country by country and reimbursement is different in in the various countries. And some have a better reimbursement situation than others, obviously. But overall, currently, we're not seeing that as a major pinch point.

Okay, not a major pinch point. I just want to make sure people, it's like you're not seeing some softness, you know?

We're not seeing softness.

As a matter of fact, we have a board member that runs a large hospital network. She says she's as busy as ever. We got invited to a Wells Fargo event last night. I think I had five different companies around the dinner table. None of us has seen any slowdown procedures.

Okay, good to hear. One more big picture question. you've talked about identifying merits, core competencies. We get asked about that a lot, too.

Yeah.

What would you say at this point are merits, core competencies?

Yeah. I mean, I think first, if you look, if I talk sort of technical core competencies, I would highlight things like, you know, sheath technology, introducer technology, wire, you know, extrusion, molding, braiding. Those are some of our, you know, very top core competencies that you see in so many of our access devices. And, you know, in some of the other areas, you know, we're building and adding, I would say. But that, from sort of the technical side, is probably where I would start. And, you know, and then I think you have to really talk about, I'll call it the DNA of the organization, which I also think is a real core competency, which is being so customer focused. And, you know, one of the things that's been so interesting for me is I've traveled the globe and met all of our employees around the world is, you know, everywhere I've gone, I mean, people will go to such great lengths for a customer. And that's not something you can walk into a new organization and just say, I'd like you all to do that now. You know, it's kind of in people or it's not. And it's really is in, I would say, the merit DNA. Now, some of that gets done, as I often say, by brute force, which again, you know, hats off to our team who's willing to go to such great lengths for a customer. But part of our evolution and part of our maturing is to say, you know, could we have a better system in place? You know, could we provide better data to someone so that we don't get into that pinch, right? And that we can just operate a little bit more efficiently. But that's what I'd say.

Okay, that's hopeful. That's probably some of Fred's legacy, I think it's safe to say, in terms of being very customer-focused.

Absolutely, yeah.

So let's talk about the platforms. OEM, you know, big turnaround. Down 14%, Q1, up 15%, Q2. I think there was a turnaround in both the foundational and the therapeutic areas. You know, I think, so what's the outlook there? It seems like we're in the early innings. I know what you've said on 26, but it seems like we're in the early innings of the Medtronic distribution agreement, which is public. So it seems like you have a good runway there.

Yeah. I mean, again, you know, what we've said is you should think about OEM. It is lumpy. You should think about it annually as being mid to high single-digit growth. You know, we don't comment specifically on particular customers. What they choose to share publicly is obviously up to them. But, you know, suffice it to say, we're feeling optimistic about OEM, our current position there.

Got it. Do you want to add anything? No, she nailed it, so not much to add there.

Okay, helpful. What's driving the embolic growth in Europe?

I mean, I got to tell you, I just, as I said, came back from this. The meeting's called CIRCSE. It's the Cardiac and Interventional Radiology Society of Europe. That's all people are talking about there. So people are really excited about our embospheres and doing GAE procedures, PAE procedures, right, knees, prostate. Others are thinking about it in lots of other creative ways. So I'd just say it's a pretty hot topic there. And I think, you know, the question will be how that evolves into the U.S. market.

Both GAE and PAE. Yeah, PAE really, I think, as you know, was kind of a big topic maybe five years ago and kind of maybe got a little bit slower start than people anticipated. But I think we're really seeing some growth there. And then you've got GAE, which everybody's, you know, you're doing a study and GAE or some companies are.

Yeah, there's a lot of studies going on in across this whole space. So, again, I think it's I think it is a space to watch. I think there's a lot of there's a lot of excitement about it. There's a lot of activity going on. And, you know, again, stay tuned to see how it all plays out. How big is your imbolic business?

About 80. 80 million. 80 million.

That's helpful. Okay. And then oncology is an area, Martha, that you, you know, expressed excitement about on the recent calls. You just did a deal with OneMark. How is Scout and OneMark complementary? And I think you're just launching OneMark.

Yeah, so we're excited, right? So on the oncology platform in the U.S., the challenge has been we've kind of been a one-product company with our Scout technology, right, that uses radar technology for wire-free localization. So what the OneMark adds is also wire-free localization using ultrasound technology. So it can come down to both either physician preference, some just prefer one over the other, people are either more visual or not, and we also have two different price points. So we think of it in terms of we have a better option and a best option, if you will. And so in some cases, people were hesitant to use the Scout technology because it is a higher price point, and so they would just reserve it for when they thought they really had a suspicious-looking lesion. And so what OneMark does is really adds and opens up the market dramatically by about three or four X of what the Scout market is. And so given that price point, which is lower than the Scout, people will opt to use the OneMark for far more procedures than just the highly, highly suspicious lesions. So we're excited because we're the only company that can offer this kind of technology at the time of biopsy, which makes a huge difference for women going through the breast cancer process in that it can reduce one extra step. And also, with our technology, they can still have MRIs. Some of the other technologies out on the market will restrict you from being able to have an MRI at a later date, which many people, of course, would like that option.

Are you concerned about cannibalization of Scout with one mark?

We are not. Again, many physicians either have a particular preference or they're in a site of service where they've just said one price point or the other makes sense. So we do not see it as cannibalization. I mean, could there be a teeny bit? Possible. But we really see it as a market expansion opportunity. And I think in addition, the scout price point was restricting us outside the United States. And with one mark, again, being a lower price point, we think there's terrific opportunity for OUS expansion. We don't have CE mark yet, so we still have work to do on that. But again, in the future.

And you've guided to $14 million to $16 million in one mark sales next year. How are you feeling about the launch and that number? And is that capital or consumables?

That's both. That's both the capital and consumables. And the launch is kind of just getting started, just getting rolling. Just finished training the entire sales force in the last month or so. So early days, but excited.

Good. And you have one big competitor there, Hologic, that has a broad portfolio too. But they also sell some of the imaging. So how do you compete effectively against them?

Yeah, I mean, so, you know, again, different competitors. There are a number of competitors in the space, right? And people offer various types of clips and things. Again, as I said, what makes our technology really unique is that it's wire-free, which if you ask a patient going through that means a lot to them, and that avoidance of a potential additional procedure and the MRI safety. So we feel good about our position. and, again, field checks give us a fair amount of optimism.

Got it. Okay. China is always a big topic with merit because you have a relatively large business there. And so China came in slightly up, I think, in Q2. With VBP a little bit lighter than you expected. What's the outlook for China? And could this be a growth contributor over the next LRP?

Well, you know, we hope so, right? we're neck deep in that work and we'll let you guys know how we think about the APEC region you know going forward but you know I think you know China you know has you know we expect it to be you know flat year-over-year I think which is an improvement you know from last year as you know Larry where we were down so I think you know generally speaking you know we hope to kind of continue to step out of BPP over time that hasn't changed but it is a moving you know I think you know my comments always been you know to kind of ask me you know in the next five minutes I'll probably have a different answer you know but I think we're feeling optimistic about the opportunities that we have there it's a great market aging population we're just neck deep in how we you know how we get better there and how we can compete and you know and and really you know start to win more effectively than we have in the past you know I think volumes continue to be great it's just about you know how do we kind of you know stop the BBP stuff which we don't really have visibility from the government as to when it stops um we're just you know um you know generally we've been doing better and we've been able to overcome those pricing cuts um in both of our lrps right so i think that's you know you know again speaks to not only our apac team for you know pushing other regions and other areas within the apac um you know umbrella but also um you know our emea and us you know counterparts you know making sure that you know they're um they're they're being effective in, you know, in pricing and growing the business, you know. So we've been able to overcome, you know, those price cuts, you know, pretty effectively, I would say.

And maybe if I can just add one thing, I was in, you know, visited China last month, or maybe two months, two months ago now, it's September, two months ago now. And again, just super impressed with our team there. And we did make a bit of a leadership change in our total Asia region, and so my hope is that we are unleashing our Chinese team there to go even further, and it really, it gave me a terrific view into really understanding some of the market dynamics that are going on in China, right, that all medical device companies are facing, and so that has impacted how we're thinking about that strategy going forward.

So a question for you on China. The companies, you know, that have caught 5% of sales or less have been de-emphasizing China the last five years, I would say. You are about 10. So how do you think about, so it's a little bit, it's hard to really de-emphasize it. Because it's a big part of your business. So how do you think about, you know, leaning in into a market that's so tough?

I mean, I think the answer is you either decide to lean in or you really get out. And I will just say my vote is we're leaning in. So, again, we don't have all the details of that strategy ready to talk about, but that's the discussion we're having.

That would be a little bit different. You know that. Most, you know, companies that have a smaller presence there are probably de-emphasizing it.

And over time, I mean, Larry, I think you guys know this. You know, we've also emphasized other regions, right, you know, or other countries within the APAC region. We've also redirected some investments, you know, to other markets where the growth is. So, I mean, I think there's a way that we can do both. You know, making sure that we, you know, are feeding the, you know, the areas that are, you know, growing, you know, strongly. And then also kind of leaning into the China, you know, which, again, we think is a great market. And I think if done right, that you can get a lot of, you know, a lot of value out of it.

But I heard your vote was lean in. We're leaning in. You're probably in the minority right now among U.S.-based medical device companies. But that's fine. I understand.

We understand that, too.

We've been in the minority our entire lives, you know, 39 years, Larry. So I'm sure we like to have that debate with the management team and the board, you know, once or twice.

So, Raul, we'll put you on the hot seat here a little bit. Give you, I don't know, I've got to find a chance to get you to say a kitchen sink. Oh, yeah, yeah. But I'll ask you a margin question. But I wanted to ask about 2027. So just, I guess, just to start off, the puts and takes next year on the top line.

The street's at about 6% organic revenue growth, which is about 100 basis point deceleration from this year. any reaction no reaction again we haven't said anything about 2027 as you know we're very you know um disciplined in uh in you know in our comments about you know talking about outside of cgi cgi sorry um you know making sure we see that you know across the finish line um so you know we consistently talk about five to seven percent that's what our two lrps have been the last you know uh two times we've done it so the fact that people are at six percent doesn't surprised me and it and i have no reaction to it other than to say it seems reasonable given that we've you know guided our last two lrps at five to seven percent that's fair and and on margins you have a tariff refund called seven million dollars yep 6.9 in 2026 it's about nine cents 40 basis points to margins the question is can you grow margins next year can you you know even on a reported basis hurdling you know the tariff refund yes i mean and i'm going to talk about operating margins right and so i mean look you know to the extent of how much we grow them by i think then obviously you'll have to wait and see for that but there's nobody at merit sitting around thinking that we can't grow our operating margins got it especially when in the light of the lrp right i mean again we've committed to an lrp it's going to be a three-year plan you know obviously what those you know what every individual year looks like is yet to be determined we'll let you guys know tune in for that but um there's nobody sitting around merit thinking that we're done growing operating margin.

Sorry, just to be clear, I might have missed it. On 27, despite the 40 basis point headwind from the tariff refund, you still think you can grow margins next year?

Again, we're not going to commit to anything. You know, we're not going to talk about 27 other than to say that there's nobody sitting there thinking we can't grow operating margins.

Okay. Yeah. And Raul, I haven't asked you this in a long time, but the tax rate's relatively high.

Yeah.

For a company with the international exposure you have.

Yeah. Well, that's, you know, part of the new tax plan, right? I mean, I think, you know, you get taxed, you know, you know, at a higher rate, you know, you know, OUS. And I think one of the limiting factors, to be honest with you, is is is me. You know, do we want to make the investment in a tax strategy where where you have the politics that you have, you know, in Washington right now, where things kind of ebb and flow, you know, you know, quarter to quarter, year to year. Right. And administration to administration. So, you know, those tax strategies are not cheap. um and to invest a significant amount of you know dollars in that and you know have it be flipped you know from one administration to the other just doesn't seem like uh you know good um a good investment right now and so i i think you know we're there is small things that we're looking at that we can do um you know a little bit of strategic planning on that side but um as far as kind of overhauling and doing big strategic kind of you know investments in that area i think i'd like to wait to see you know um more stability and kind of uh you know and kind of the political side of things before we we make that investment okay fair enough capital allocation martha what

how what are your capital allocation priorities yeah i mean traditionally historically right merit has invested a fair amount in um in acquisitions um that is still where i think That will be a place we'll continue to look. So we are constantly looking at opportunities. I would categorize them very much as tuck-ins, right? Again, we have ongoing dialogue with each platform to say, as we said, what do you feel is missing in your portfolio? What's the organic pipeline look like from an R&D perspective? Or are there gaps we need to fill by going outside? So I think the only shift is really we want to be very intentional as we think about acquisitions. We'll be very disciplined. We'd like them to be margin accretive. Perhaps not everything will be, but that's certainly a goal. So I think first and foremost would be, as I said, continued tuck-in acquisitions. Obviously, we've all seen the stock activity lately. We do discuss with our board, you know, from time to time, certainly, and in the last six months, more so probably, about whether or not we should consider a buyback. Currently, we do not have a, you know, a share repurchase authorization in place. But that's certainly an ongoing discussion, depending on where things are.

Any questions in the audience?

We've got a couple minutes left here. what what are you getting from investors that we didn't ask Raul what what other topics hot topics are there well I think look I think the big question is is what does the LRP look like right and and again I I think we're excited about you know the work that's being done right now I think you know under Martha's leadership we're you know we're neck deep in strategic planning it's something quite frankly that the company has been craving for for a long time as you know many of you know you know Fred was great at growing the business but he was also you know very dynamic guy and so I think you know just kind of getting aligned on a strategic plan across the world not just you know you know in the US but across the world you know there's I think there's there's a lot of value I think that that's gonna come out of it and you know we're excited about putting that strategic plan together we also have a you know a new VP of operations you know who started I think she's gonna do a great job and she you know she comes you know from the outside so she'll bring a new lens to look at you know things you know under and I'm excited to see what she finds and and what kind of value we can unlock there so a lot of good things are happening we're excited one more question margins the second half I asked you the question on revenue in the second half you know can you answer that

But the margins also, you know, don't imply much of an improvement in the second half. Why is that?

Again, you know, there is a level of seasonality to our business, Larry. You know, I know the third quarter, we typically step down a little bit from the second, right? The second and fourth quarter are usually our strongest quarters, not only from a revenue standpoint, but also from a profitability. So there's typically a step down in the third quarter that we account for. um i you know from our from our side look the business you know continues to you know see a lot of momentum um it's just our approach to just leave the back half of the guidance alone uh let's flow through the first half and um you know we'll see how things shake out all right great uh martha uh you know thanks for being here i want to give you the last word if there are any closing remarks you want to make before we wrap yeah look i think it's a it's an exciting time at merit medical right i mean there's there's no question it is a change to go from you know a founder-led organization with, as you said, a charismatic, passionate leader like Fred for 38 years.

So it's a shift. But I'd say, you know, A, I'm honored to be in the position. B, as I said earlier, you know, the organization has continued to stay very focused on delivering each quarter. And as we talked about, you know, we are on track to meet the three-year continued growth initiative targets. So there's a lot of excitement around that. And frankly, I've been, you know, enthusiastic and energized by how engaged people have been in this strategic plan process. I think, as Raul said, the organization was excited to do it. You know, sometimes people feel like they get dragged into work like this, but there's been a lot of energy. And so to see this cross-functional collaboration and cross-geographic collaboration, I think we are really going to be able to kind of unlock this organization and enable a lot more growth going forward. So I'm very excited about the future, and as we said, what it takes to start a business and bring it to this point is a little different from all that it takes to grow from $1.5 billion in revenue and up from there. But excited to go forward and do that.

Perfect. Thanks so much for being here.