SS&C Technologies Holdings Inc (SSNC) Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the SS&C Technologies First Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you'd like to ask a question during that time, press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press star followed by the number one. I will now hand today's call over to Chand Madaka, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Welcome, and thank you for joining us for our Q1 2025 earnings call. I'm Chand Madaka, Investor Relations for SS&C. With me today is Bill Stone, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Rahul Kanwar, President and Chief Operating Officer, and Brian Schell, our Chief Financial Officer. Before we get started, we need to review the Safe Harbor Statement. Please note that various remarks we make today about future expectations, plans, and prospects, including the financial outlook we provide, constitute forward-looking statements for purposes of the safe harbor provisions under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Actual results may differ materially from those indicated by these forward-looking statements as a result of various important factors, including those discussed in the risk factors section of our most recent annual report on Form 10-K, which is on file with the SEC and can also be accessed on our website. These forward-looking statements represent our expectations only as of today, April 24, 2025. While the company may elect to update these forward-looking statements, it specifically disclaims any obligation to do so. During today's call, we will be referring to certain non-GAAP financial measures. A reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to comparable GAAP financial measures is included in today's earnings release, which is located in the Investor Relations section of our website at www.ssctech.com. I will now turn over the call to Bill.

John, and welcome, everyone. Our first quarter results are adjusted revenue of $1,514,800,000, up 5.5%, and adjusted ability earnings for a share of $1.44, an 8.3% increase. Adjusted consolidated EBITDA was $591.9 million, up 6.3%, resulting in quarterly adjusted consolidated EBITDA margin of 39.1%. Our first quarter adjusted organic revenue growth was 5.1%. Performance was driven by our Globop, Wealth and Investment Technologies, and Global Investor and Distribution Services business. Globop posted strong results with organic growth of 10.3% and positive trends in private market and retail alternatives. Wealth and investment technology saw continued strength in the wealth segment and its client wins and volumes targets. We continue to feel good about our health business, which finished the quarter approximately flat. Our recurring revenue growth rate for financial services was 5.9 in Q1, which includes all software-enabled services and maintenance revenue. For the three months ended March 31, 2025, cash from operating activities with 272.2 million, up 50.8% from Q1 24. We bought back 2.4 million shares for 206.9 million at an average price of 87.21. consistent with our historical capital allocation practices we will continue to buy shares he has continued to see success internationally across several of our businesses during the quarter we signed our strategic lift-out agreement with insignia financial and have since won additional Australian mandates in March we hosted one SS&C event in Sydney which has led to an increased profile and we met with a number of our largest clients and we remain bullish on Australia Geneva had one of its best quarters in EMEA history winning three major deals in the region we are outpacing our competitors and discriminating functional depth and breadth globally private markets has also enjoyed the fruits of international expansion expansion growing 14% in Q1 we are currently focusing efforts on the Middle East with flagship clients driving regional growth we've strengthened our presence in the middle east by opening a new office in riyadh saudi arabia in addition to our offices in abu dhabi and dubai i'll now turn the call over to rahul to discuss the quarter in more detail

thanks bill we had a strong first quarter with organic revenue growth of 5.1 percent Globop started 2025 on a high note, posting 10.3% organic growth. The integration of Batea is also progressing well, and we've already won 10 cross-sell customers. In addition to these results, we're seeing healthy activity in key areas, particularly in retail alternatives and private markets. Our wealth and investment technologies business delivered strong results driven by Alps Advisors and the Black Diamond Wealth platform. Our strategic alliance with Morningstar is expanding the opportunity set. We're also advancing customer transitions to the Genesys platform with solid engagement across our prospects. Global investor and distribution solutions business saw steady growth, supported by key customer renewals and new retirement mandates. We continue to see a healthy flow of opportunities across global markets. Demand for AI-driven automation remains high. Earlier this month, we launched our global governance-first AI platform at Blue Prism Live in London. As part of the launch, we introduced a unified trust layer designed to help regulated customers adopt advanced technologies with confidence using embedded guardrails and policy-based execution. This positions Blue Prism as a trusted partner in enterprise transformation. We also continue to deploy Blue Prism and other automation technologies internally, and we've achieved a cumulative benefit of more than 3,300 full-time equivalents since we launched this effort in early 2023. We recently introduced 20 new AI agents capable of handling complex, unstructured content, including vendor contracts and limited partner capital statements.

These innovations are central to efforts to support customers on their own AI journeys. with that I'll turn it over to Brian to talk through the financials thanks for a whole and good day everyone as noted in our press release our q125 gap results reflect revenues of 1.514 billion dollars net income of 213 million dollars and diluted earnings per share of 84 cents our adjusted non-gap results include revenues of 1.51 billion dollars an increase of 5.5 percent over Q124, and adjusted diluted EPS of $1.44, an 8.3% increase over Q124. The adjusted revenue increase of $79 million over Q124 was primarily driven by incremental organic revenue contributions from GLOBEOP of $34 million, WIT of $14 million, and GIDS of $9 million, offset by an unfavorable impact from foreign exchange of $7 million. As a result, adjusted organic revenue growth was 5.1%, and our core expenses also increased 5.1%, or $45 million, which excludes acquisitions and on a constant currency basis. Adjusted consolidated EBITDA was $592 million, reflecting an increase of $35 million, or 6.3%, from Q1-24, and a margin of 39.1%, a 30 basis point expansion. Net interest expense for the quarter was $105 million, a decrease of $11 million from Q1-24, primarily reflecting lower short-term interest rates. Adjusted net income was $366 million, up 9%, resulting in adjusted diluted EPS of $1.44, the increase of 8.3%. Our affected non-GAAP tax rate was 24%. Note, for comparison purposes, we have recast the 2024 adjusted net income quarterly results to reflect the full-year effective tax rate of 23.1%. An increase in the average share price drove the diluted share count up from $254.9 million from $253.3 million year-over-year. Cash flow from operating activities grew 51%, which was driven by growth in earnings as well as improved working capital utilization our quarterly cash flow conversion was 74% up from 54% last year SSC ended the first quarter with 515 million dollars in cash and cash equivalents and 6.9 billion dollars in gross debt SSC's net debt was 6.4 billion dollars and our LTM consolidated EBITDA was two point three billion dollars the resulting net leverage ratio is two point seven four times look forward to the second quarter in the remainder of the year with respect to guidance we will continue to focus on client service and assume retention rates will continue to be in the range of our most recent results we will continue to manage our expense by controlling and aligning variable expenses increasing productivity improve our operating margins and effectively investing in the business through marketing sales and R&D specifically we have assumed foreign currency exchange will be at current levels interest rates to remain at current levels and a factor tax rate of approximately 24% on an adjusted basis capital expenditures to be 4 to 4.4 percent of revenues which is a slight reduction from prior guidance and a stronger waiting to share repurchases versus debt reduction for The second quarter of 25, we expect revenue to be in the range of $1.489 to $1.529 billion and 2.5% organic revenue growth at the midpoint. Adjust the net income in the range of $343 to $359 million. Interest expense, excluding amortization to deferred financing costs and original issue discount in the range of $102 to $104 million. dollars, diluted shares in the range of $254 to $255 million, and adjusted diluted EPS in the range of $1.35 to $1.41. For the full year 2025, we are modestly raising our top-line guidance by $13 million at the midpoint, and now expect revenue to be in the range of $6.11 to $6.238 billion dollars bearing in mind recent macro uncertainty geopolitical conditions and market volatility we know FX translation has influenced our organic growth rate guide for the next for the year current FX rates provide a potential top-line benefit though we remain appropriately conservative in the current environment we now expect 4.4% organic revenue growth at the midpoint we continue to expect organic growth to map to ramp up in the second half of the year based on our current view of the pipeline expected contribution from already sold deals and patea turning organic for the full year 2025 we are slightly raising our earnings guidance specifically we expect adjusted net income in the range of 1.441 to 1.541 billion dollars diluted shares in the range of 253.7 to 256.7 million just a diluted eps in the range of $5.68 to $6, up four cents at the midpoint, and cash from operating activities to be in the range of $1.458 to $1.558 billion. Our 2025 guidance reflects our solid results in Q1 with a continued positive outlook for the remainder of the year.

We are also positioning ourselves to better support our growth, acquisitions, and integration plans with the conversion of our multiple general ledger systems into a single platform by the end of the third quarter this year and now back to Bill thanks Brian we also added Francesco Vanni di Artetti to our board in March and we welcome him he had a very impressive career at Citibank and he currently serves as chairman of the board of directors of Euroclear holdings and as a member of the board of map map free we are excited about the extensive experience he brings in operational management and corporate transactions we are operating an environment of geopolitical and economic uncertainty leading to volatility in the global markets SS&C has a long history of resilient performance during challenging operating environments and we are confident in our business model we close out a solid first quarter and continue to execute against our plan I will now open it up At this time, if you'd like to ask a question, press star one on your telephone keypad.

If your question hasn't been answered and you would like to remove yourself from the queue, press star one again. Your first question is from the line of Jeff Schmidt with William Blair.

Hi, good afternoon. On health care, was it just a seasonally weak quarter for that business, and how does your pipeline look currently?

I think health care continues to build its pipeline. We're selling into large-scale health insurance companies and some of it is lumpy, but we have a lot of, I think we first rolled out Domani RX in January 24, and I think in 25 we're expecting to process several hundred million claims, and so we have a lot of interest. they're very large prospects for us and and we remain optimistic okay um and then your organic growth guide for the second quarter i think it's two and a half percent is that assuming a slow down or pause a new business just given all the economic uncertainty um i may have missed that if so could you kind of quantify what you're assuming there i would i would say basically we're just putting a measure of conservatism in a into the second quarter given everything that's happening in the world right now so you know we're a global business and while we don't believe tariffs are really going to be a a big impact on us from a financial standpoint uh it's opportunity to slow down deals is certainly um certainly possible so i i think we you know we have a a good pipeline we've got a lot of uh deals we've sold that the the revenue has not started flowing in yet so you know we're optimistic that we can you know hopefully surprise you positively week.

Okay, great. Thank you.

Your next question is from the line of Peter Heckman with DA Davidson's company.

Hey, good afternoon. Hopefully you can hear me. It's a little choppy on this end, but congratulations on finalizing the Insignia deal.

Now that it's closed, do you think you'd give us a little bit more in terms of your expectations for its contribution to revenue and how much it might ramp up and you know whether or not we would be able to you know see the impact see the impact of that rate well I you know that the what we're going to rebadge about 1,400 people from insignia to us and then that that will happen like July 1 I believe so most obviously the ramp is going to be in the third and fourth quarter so we'll get up you know about a half a year you know and that can range anywhere from 35 to 70 million dollars and so we're we're optimistic that we can can really do a great job for them and and really take care of their members and that's what we're focusing on and we've got a great team that's that's really keeping this thing very well planned just as a follow-up on your decision or the announcement to dissolve another one of the joint ventures were stated.

As that is dissolved, do you expect to pick up any additional revenue? What would you say would be the net effect to revenue, some additional revenue recognized at the corporate level, and what would you expect the impact to be on the EBIT dial line?

As of right now, we're not expecting much impact as a result of that. Most of that is operational. The processing is done within SS&C, and in effect, what we're doing is simplifying the entity structure. There may be some reduction in costs because it simplifies it, but we're not expecting that to be very significant.

Okay. And then just last thing is, where do you expect that to happen?

We're working through it right now. We don't have a definitive timeline as yet.

All right. Your next question is from the line of Dan Perlin with RBC Capital Markets.

Thanks. Thanks. So just at a high level, again, Bill, on the demand environment, I know we've heard from other players in the financial services market banks in particular have talked about some of their clients pausing. It doesn't sound like you're seeing that yet, but I just want to kind of make a finer point that what are those conversations like? Do you get the sense that they feel like there might be an air pocket in the business and decision-making, so they might want to hold off? I heard your comment on the organic growth being measured and conservative. So I get that. But obviously, you talk to a lot of these businesses. I'm just curious what those conversations are like.

Well, I think you know, Dan, that there's an awful lot of change happening in particular in wealth and asset management. And there are sea changes that are being caused by things like AI and quantum and all kinds of new technologies, probably, you know, the biggest set of new technologies since, say, the internet. You know, so I think that there's going to be an awful lot of change. And I think that, you know, I read a note that said two-thirds of all CEOs are afraid that if they don't get AI right, they're going to lose their job. So I think there's a lot of trepidation about what's going to happen in the technological world, and SS&C is well positioned to help our prospects and our clients get through this in a really pretty good fashion. We spend lots of money on this.

We have all kinds of different tools and techniques that are very valuable to our clients, and we get lots of inquiries from them to help them. yep yep excellent can i just ask um just another quick question in particular around in australia maybe the market in general i think i heard you say you signed uh several new mandates you know since kind of the announcement and i'm just wondering like um obviously the demand environment there seems high i feel like uh almost you guys sound giddy about the opportunity So I'm just trying to make sure we kind of ring fence, like what kind of cadence you expect in terms of how that could potentially ramp.

Well, you know, Dan, when you get to be my age, being giddy is one of the pleasures in life. Other than that, you get to push up daisies, I think, so giddy sounds better to me. But it really is, you know, they call the superannuation business in Australia the wall of money. you know so you know everyone's required to participate but it's their own accounts as you know here in the u.s. you know saying that you have your own account in in social security well you you you have more analysis than me so i i think that you know the the services companies in australia you know have maybe not uh kept up quite as well on the technology like we have so we're coming in there as you know an at-scale company that has technology that they want and and a whole cadre of talented people that can help them and and that's the feeling we're getting embraced you know now i hope we still get embraced because you know the geopolitical things but i don't think so i mean we're really doing doing well we you know we're investing and and they know it so i think that's going to be a a really great market for us that's great thank you so much bill your next question is from a line of surrender thin with jeffries um thank you um

bill just a few questions on on some of the segments here um when we think about intralinks and we look at everything that, you know, went right last year in terms of the introduction of the new platform, how are we thinking about the performance of interlinks in kind of the current environment? How much of a headwind do you think it's going to be, or how should we characterize what the current corporate looks like and how it might evolve over the coming quarters?

At the, in sort of, you know, appropriately conservative is kind of the way I would, you know, describe us looking at it. And so we think Interlinks right now probably grows mid-single digits, and that's, in effect, what's implied in our forecast. We do have a number of things that we have rolled out in terms of new platforms and some AI-enabled technologies that allow us to grow despite kind of the turmoil in the markets. And then if we start to see things turn around in the second half of the year, that ought to be really pretty positive for that business.

Got it. And then Rahul, can you maybe provide a similar update on kind of Blue Prism and all the enhancements and the rollout strategy there? And how are you thinking about that over the course of the year?

You know, I think our primary opportunity or the thing that we're most excited about is there's a lot of, as you know, around the world, enterprises are trying to figure out how to use AI. And so they need to have, you know, some controls, particularly in regulated industries on how people go out and use the various AI tools. And, you know, a big part of what we have invested in is building in, as I mentioned in my comments, the trust layers and the guardrails and things like that, which we think are extremely valuable to us. But they're also really valuable to positioning Blue Prism as that trusted partner. So our opportunity set is really strong and we feel good about it. And in particular, using agents and agentic AI is a big part of what we expect to do over the next couple of quarters.

Got it. And then I guess turning that question internally in terms of the digital workers, any color on the complexity of the use cases you're now able to address and how you're thinking about that on a go-forward basis? It sounds like you're able to solve bigger problems at this point.

Well, that's exactly right. I think that we've got some momentum. We've now been at this since the start of 2023. We are, as you said, getting deeper and richer into our own processing, and just as important as the internal efficiencies we're getting, those applications then become really good proof points for our customers and prospects. They look at what we've been able to achieve, and we had recently had a customer tell us that they got a number of demos from our competitors, but not a single work and use case, and within SS&C they could see it already operating at scale so that's pretty powerful and then what does that mean for margins do you feel like there's a structural tailwind that you have at this point that that will continue or how should we think about that not necessarily this year but as we kind of conceptually think about this or maybe even this year so so Serena that's really great question and we appreciate it because you get one question and then apparently

four follow-ups but but I thought I was the last person in the queue that that's okay but but you know I think that we still think that you know what's allowed us to do is maintain margins I think the adjusted EBIT dot margin this this quarter was 39.1 up about you know 30 40 basis points and and and we're investing heavily right so there's a lot of expenses that we're running through and still driving margins up and i think we would attribute a nice portion of that to the ability of our different business units to deploy you know blue prisms technologies uh into their businesses and And as you said, it's getting to be increasingly complex processes that allow us to be able to even take some really experienced people and give them capabilities that really extend their ability to help our prospects and our customers.

Your next question is from the line of Jane Sposetti with Morgan Stanley.

Hi, everyone. It's Michael Infante on for James. Thanks for taking our question. I just wanted to ask on the Globot business, obviously, really impressive results again. I think that business has accelerated sequentially every quarter for more than a year now. Can you just unpack what's driving that? Is that net new momentum? Is that pricing? What are you sort of seeing just in terms of the complexion of the growth drivers within that business? Thanks.

You know, the great thing that we have with Globop is that it's a global business. You know, so as we start talking about what we're doing in the Middle East, we're getting large-scale customers that are investing increasingly in alternative assets, and they want the best technology supported by the best firm, and that's what we believe we have proven quarter after quarter after quarter and i think that shows up in how we explain what we're going to do how we're going to train them what asset classes you know that they can invest in whether it's real estate or private credit or whatever you know and we bring real expertise that really helps them get up to speed uh in short order and and that is the big secret of of our success on global.

Makes sense. Maybe just on the on the competitive front, Bill, obviously, a lot of acquisition activity in the space, particularly in the hedge fund and investment accounting space. I know some of these acquisitions are quite small relative to the totality of your business.

But any just high level thoughts on on that deal and sort of how you're thinking about, you know, your ability to sort of continue to gain share in the in the startup hedge fund environment particularly just given some of this integration activity that's obviously coming thanks well i think you know what what's happening in that startup is is that that it's kind of being led by very seasoned investors and and they're they're starting with larger pools of money right so they're already sophisticated and they want to they want to hit the ground running so as they're doing their their fundraising they're also planning out what technologies they're going to use and often they turn to us and and we have you know an awful lot of the of the global macro firms use us and and an awful lot of the assets that have been going into alternatives go go into the global macro funds and so you know we're in a very nice position and and we're not resting on our laurels as we continue to bring out additional feature additional functionality and and really to the delight of our of our customers your next question is from the line

of andrew schmidt with city hey guys thank you for taking the question i wanted to go back to this the conversation on the demand environment um totally understand the um the setup for the second quarter in terms of comments on conservatism and the mission-critical nature of what you guys do. But I'm just curious if you give us a sense of whether conversations and sales cycles have changed meaningfully March into April. Obviously, it wouldn't be surprising, a huge amount of distraction out there. But I'm just curious, just put a finer point in terms of your conversation with the clients and decision-making. Thanks so much.

I mean, we still see a pretty good demand environment we were with the prospect this afternoon and and uh you know they're they're anxious to to deploy new technology to get better processes to close their books faster to to to get information in their hands that help them run their business you know i think that's the key to our business is being aware and then moving quickly to give our prospects and our clients information that they've wanted for a long time, and they don't get it in a month. You know, they get it in a day, you know, and I think it's that focus on, you know, process it, slice it, and dice it, and deliver it. And I think that's something that we do with a lot of accuracy, and that gives our clients a lot of confidence.

Got it. Thanks so much for that, Bill. And then maybe just on the back half ramp, I know you articulated a few things that are drivers there. Part of that seems like it's insignia and other signed deals, but maybe just give more detail on the confidence of the back half ramp, what's signed versus go-get. I know there's always a level of go-get. You've got to go out there and sell in close deals, but just maybe more details on the drivers and confidence in that ramp would be helpful.

Yeah, you know, Andrew, obviously, and you pointed this out, there's always an element of go-get. I'd say we feel pretty good. you know obviously there's a fair amount of execution left to do and some deals left to close and implementations left to go live and all those things so by no means certain right but we well we feel pretty good we have a lot of visibility into some of the big pockets of revenue coming online in q3 and q4 and that and that helps with that your next question is from the line of alexei gogulov with jp morgue hi this is um ellis smith on for alexei gogulov thank you so much for taking your question.

So first, we want to double down on about the strengths in GLOBE-OP. You called out the strengths in the private markets of retail alternatives. How are you thinking about the forward organic growth of those markets in particular? Do you expect them to maintain their strengths or taper off somewhat? And if you could remind us what is driving that strength, that'd be great.

Thank you. Well, I think when you look at why our private credit and other private markets, I think it's because they can structure things in ways that allow them to get additional additional yield on those assets and some of the brightest people in in the business are saying they can you know structure things in the private markets where they can get a couple hundred more basis points than they can get in the public markets a couple hundred basis points on the kinds of billions that our clients manage is worth a ton of money. And I think that's the biggest thing. And then I also think in their structuring, what they are able to do is really identify where the risk points are and then structure these investments to be able to minimize those risk points.

Great. That makes a lot of sense.

And to my follow-up, I hear your enthusiasm about agentic ai and bringing that to customers do you expect those offerings to begin to show up in organic growth in the near term or do you think that there's going to be an investment building out ways that needs to transpire and finish first i mean it's not going to be snap your fingers and we get 400 basis points of organic growth but you know it's going to make what is already a very sticky business what is already a highly profitable business which is already a high cash flow generation business and you know right now like someone has asked about acquisitions and and even what you see in in the market you know it's continuation funds and and additional investments in in in companies that they already own so i think that the the robustness of the m a market might pick up in like the fourth quarter because i think increasingly the private equity funds are feeling like that they they need to get some stuff out into the marketplace so that they can give cash back to their lps and then the lps can reinvest it with them that makes a lot of sense thank you so much your next question is

from the line of kevin meg v with ubs great thanks so much congratulations on the results and what's obviously a choppy environment. Bill, if I got this question once intracorder, I got it 30 times about hedge funds degrossing and what that means. And obviously your AUA continues to increase, increase year on year and increase sequentially. Can you maybe just help remind us? Because again, we got the question a lot, why the AUA and we even analyzed in COVID, it just continues to grow. And it's just, I think one of the really underappreciated parts of the story, but just maybe help dimensionalize that, just, you know, given, obviously, some of the volatility in the market we've seen?

Well, Kevin, as you know, when you see volatility, people are looking for, like, safe havens, you know, and what they've seen over the last 30, 40 years that, you know, the risk-adjusted returns in the hedge fund industry are pretty non-correlated to these different markets, and that's why money moves to them, and I think that hasn't changed, and I don't think it's going to change in the near term, if anything. I mean, you know, we've seen them, you know, the hedge fund industry move to cash or more cash. And I think that they're, you know, they're just waiting to pounce again. And I think that's the nature of, you know, of the brightest investors. And I think that that will continue. That's helpful.

And then, Bill, with Insignia, does that, from a business segment perspective, does that all sit within Globop or GIDS or where would that sit across kind of the segments or is it multiple?

GIDS. It's primarily in GIDS.

Primarily in GIDS. Terrific. Okay. Thank you.

As a reminder to ask a question, press star one on your telephone keypad. Your next question is from the line of Patrick Shaughnessy with Raymond James.

Hey, good evening. So Batea seems to be trending well below the revenue that it had in 2023 when you guys acquired it. Is that just a function of the lumpiness of the, just the nature of the business, or is there something else going on?

No, I think that's it. You know, we're obviously taking some time to make sure we understand properly from an accounting standpoint, you know what the flows are and in some ways you know I think there's some degree of being conservative reflected in that too but as we get more comfortable we do expect that you know some of those accounting rules will get relaxed a little but on the underlying strength of that business and our ability to cross sell that to our customers and you know how the sales force feels like they're being really well supported has us pretty optimistic. What sort of forward-looking views you have into that business like at this point um into the second quarter do you have a pretty good sense for what 2q revenue is going to look like or does stuff kind of come in relatively quickly well i think we have a pretty good view right now of you know the the cases that we're in and the settlements that have already been announced and and are kind of our our portion of those so you know looking out a couple of years we we have a pretty good sense of what the aggregate amount is that is already baked what we don't have as good a sense of is which quarter it shows up in and that's you know that's a part of this that's helpful thank you and then maybe just a quick housekeeping question what is the fx impact uh on revenue that's embedded into

the full year guidance at this point well it's essentially the the net difference the kind of one of the metrics that um that you would just look at the overall financials and i think we put this in the I think it's either it's in the K or the Q but about 21 percent of the revenues are non-US dollar so obviously any impact to that can we'll have the corresponding you know adjustment right so if it's up by one percent it has a whatever roughly 20 BIP impact change on the overall growth rate and so we try to be conservative and kind of look at where current rates are today.

At this time, there are no further questions. I will now hand today's presentation back over to our presenters for any closing remarks.

We really appreciate all of you taking time to sit in on our call and we're excited about our business and we'll continue to work hard for our shareholders. Thank you.

This concludes today's call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.