Ladder Capital Corp (LADR) Q2 2026 Earnings Call Transcript

Good morning, and welcome to Ladder Capital Corp's Earnings Call for the second quarter of 2026. As a reminder, today's call is being recorded. This morning, Ladder released its financial results for the quarter ended June 30, 2026. Before the call begins, I'd like to call your attention to the customary safe harbor disclosure in our earnings release regarding forward-looking statements. Today's call may include forward-looking statements and projections, and we refer you to our most recent Form 10-K for important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these statements and projections. We do not undertake any obligation to update our forward-looking statements or projections unless required by law. In addition, Lauder will discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures on this call, which management believes are relevant to assessing the company's financial performance. The company's presentation of this information is not intended to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for the financial information presented in accordance with GAAP. These measures are reconciled to GAAP figures in our Earnings Supplement presentation, which is available in the Investor Relations section of our website. We also refer you to our Form 10 and Earnings Supplement presentation for definitions of certain metrics which we may cite on today's call. At this time, I'd like to turn the call over to Ladder's president, Pamela McCormack.

Good morning, and thank you for joining us today. Ladder had a strong second quarter with robust origination activity and continued earnings growth. We generated distributable earnings of $30.8 million for $0.24 per share, with modest adjusted leverage of 2.3 times. Ladder's business model is performing well, yet our stock still trades at a meaningful discounts of book value, a value we feel confident in and one that has remained stable throughout the cycle. We have three levers that should help narrow that discount over time. Combined with a dividend yield of over 9%, closing that gap would put a total return potential above 30% from here. First, continued rotation to higher yielding loans builds earnings power. Our investment grade balance sheet gives us the liquidity and financial flexibility to continue rotating capital into loans without compromising on credit, and our stable book value reflects that discipline. Second, generating gains from sales across our multi-cylinder strategy from securities, real estate, and conduit loans continues to be part of our playbook and a source of earnings we don't think is fully reflected in our valuation today. And third, with our stock price currently trading below book value, every share we repurchase adds to book value per share. a lever we'll use opportunistically alongside loan growth. I'll explain how you're already seeing progress in each of these areas. Rotating into loans. Year-to-date, we have originated $1.2 billion in new loans, with our loan portfolio growing 75% over the trailing 12 months. Balance sheet loans now make up approximately 50% of total assets, and we expect that share to continue to climb. 85% of our loan portfolio has been originated in the past two years at conservative loans to values on reset basis resulting in recently underwritten loans, not a legacy book carried at peak cycle values. That rotation is showing up in the results. Our net interest margin has trended higher year over year as we've rotated out of lower yielding securities and replaced legacy loans with these new, recently originated ones, even as all-in rates on new originations have come down. In the second quarter, we made over $800 million of new investments, over $550 million in new loans at a weighted average yield of 7.2%, and $333 million in AAA investment-grade rated securities at a weighted average yield of 5.15%. These investments are predominantly floating rates, while our liability structure is largely fixed rate. So higher rates from here should benefit earnings. Every dollar we rotate from securities yielding approximately 5% into floating rate-first mortgages yielding over 7% picks up about 200 basis points of income on that capital, which would flow directly through to earnings. Notably, our second quarter loan originations included a $268 million loan for the acquisition of a Class A office and retail building in Midtown Manhattan, along with a $10 million or 6% equity co-investment in the property. The loan was made at a 62% loan to cost on a reset basis to a repeat borrower. Origination momentum has continued into the third quarter, with an active pipeline of approximately $500 million of new loans under application and in closing. With payoff expected to stay light through year-end, we expect net portfolio growth to build each quarter for the remainder of 2026. Overall transaction volume across the market has picked up, broadening our opportunities set as a lender, and we continue to canvas for the best risk-adjusted returns. Our primary focus remains middle-market, income-producing collateral, mainly multifamily and industrial. view. On office, to be clear, we're not making a directional bet on the sector, but in select markets, we're finding compelling opportunities where leasing momentum has returned and basis has reset sharply. We favor cities with low crime rates and a return to in-person work, and we underwrite each of these loans on its own reset basis, not on a view of office broadly. Supplementing carry with gains. Gains from our multi-cylinder business strategy, security sales, real estate, and conduit can be lumpy from quarter to quarter, but they've been a consistent contributor to earnings by design since our founding. Because of that consistency, Ladder's better evaluated year over year rather than quarter to quarter, a distinction we believe gets lost in how our stock is valued today. Our $1.9 billion securities portfolio, representing 33% of total assets, is predominantly AAA rated and has served as a primary source of capital as our loan origination activity accelerates. During the quarter, we reduced our securities portfolio with net sales producing $1.8 million in gains. As we continue to fund new loans, we expect the securities portfolio share of total assets to contract further, with the pace driven by loan origination activity, not a retreat from securities as an asset class. Our $1 billion real estate portfolio generated $18 million of net operating income in the second quarter. We also realized the $1.7 million gain to distributable earnings tied to a $13 million distribution from a cash-out refinancing of a joint venture equity investment we made in a Manhattan office property in 2024. Over the course of our ownership, property occupancy increased 52% to 94%, with NOI increasing over 200% from acquisition, another example of unlocking value above our cost basis in select assets. This is not unique to one property. Across our real estate portfolio, we carry several assets below the value we would expect to realize, and we anticipate capturing that value as we selectively monetize positions over time, so the timing of any given sale is never guaranteed. Overall, we realized approximately $4.1 million of gains this quarter across all three of our cylinders. 1.8 million from security sales, 1.7 million from our real estate equity, and $600,000 from our conduit business. These gains are not always sizable individually, but this is our multi-cylinder business model working the way it's supposed to, earning support that builds over the year rather than any single quarter. Share repurchases. As Paul will discuss, we continue to repurchase stock at a discount to book value this quarter. Stock repurchases remain one of the more creative uses of capital available to us today, increasing book value with every share we purchased at today's market price. In closing, we can't control our stock price, but we can control many of the inputs that help drive it. An investment-grade capital structure and rising higher quality earnings should attract a broader base of investors, including equity re-holders, supporting the kind of stock performance that would move us towards that 30 plus percent total return where shareholders are paid a yield of over nine percent in the meantime we've built a strong track record earning the confidence of a new core base of investment grade bond holders when we issued our inaugural investment grade bond we effectively refreshed our fixed income investor base attracting high quality institutional buyers who bought the lot of story and drove our bond spreads materially tighter. Now we're turning that same attention and effort to the equity side. Over the second half of the year, we plan on taking our story directly to current and prospective shareholders, widening the audience and candidly going to work on our stock. Looking ahead, our priorities remain unchanged. Originate high quality investments across loan securities and real estate with a particular focus on our loan segment while maintaining the credit discipline that has always defined Ladder. Management and the board remain Ladder's largest shareholder group which keeps our incentives squarely in line with yours, protecting principal, delivering an attractive return on equity, and building long-term value for every shareholder alongside us. With that, I'll turn the call over to Paul.

Thank you, Pamela. Good morning. During the second quarter, Ladder generated distributable earnings of 30.8 million dollars or 24 cents per share. Our investment grade balance sheet continues to be in a position of strength. powering our multi-cylinder strategy. We maintain modest leverage and a highly resilient unsecured capital structure with unsecured debt representing 67% of our total debt at an attractive cost of capital. As of quarter end, our adjusted leverage ratio was 2.3 times, and we maintain robust liquidity of $1.1 billion, including same-day capacity and our unsecured revolver in cash. During the second quarter, we fully drew down the $275 million unsecured term loan we closed in the first quarter which is priced at 140 basis points over sulfur alongside this facility our 1.25 billion dollar unsecured corporate revolver continues to be a valuable asset allowing for funding flexibility with same-day liquidity at sulfur plus 125 basis points driving our ability to execute our capital deployment strategy our unencumbered asset pool represented 73 percent of total assets as of june 30th 85 percent of this pool is comprised of first mortgage loans investment-grade securities, and unrestricted cash. These highly liquid senior-secured unencumbered assets do more than expand our liquidity. They provide a high-caliber asset base that directly supports our unsecured liability structure. Subsequent to quarter N, S&P revised their outlook on ladder to positive, one step closer to investment grade, and the second positive rating action S&P has taken on ladder this year, following their upgrade to WB Plus in January. The action is reflective of Ladder's strengthening balance sheet and track record of discipline, leverage, sound credit management, and durable, predominantly unsecured funding profile. An upgrade to investment grade from S&P would bring Ladder's credit rating in line with Moody's and Fitch, where we are already investment grade. We'd like to thank the team at S&P for their diligence and partnership throughout this process, and we look forward to continuing to build on that relationship. As of June 30, Ladder's underappreciated book value per share was $13.44, which is net of 37 cents per share of CECL Reserve established. In the second quarter, we repurchased $8 million of common stock, or 800,000 shares, at a weighted average share price of $10.03 per share, or 25% discount of book value. Year-to-date in 2026, we have repurchased $21 million of our common stock for 2.1 million shares at a weighted average share price of $10.10 per share. As of June 30th, $92 million remains outstanding on our stock repurchase program. Overall, we continue to believe in our book value, and we will seek to continue to opportunistically utilize our buyback program while our stock is trading at a meaningful discount. In the second quarter, we declared a $0.23 per share dividend, which was paid on July 15, 2026. Over time, continued rotation of capital into our loan segment, along with the earnings power of our multi-cylinder strategy, should be a tailwind to dividend coverage. Turning to credit quality, in the second quarter, we added one loan to non-accrual status, collateralized by an office asset in Minneapolis, Minnesota, with a carrying value of $13.4 million. We anticipate resolution of this loan by the fourth quarter. As of June 30th, our CECL reserve remained steady at $47 million dollars or 37 cents per share we continue to believe this reserve level is sufficient to cover potential losses across our loan portfolio during the quarter we resolved one loan through foreclosure an eight billion dollar loan collateralized by an office property in birmingham alabama that we now own at thirty dollars per square foot our plan is to stabilize this asset and maximize value for a potential sale in the future as of june 30th our security portfolio told 1.9 billion dollars with a weighted average yield of 5.19 percent notably 99 percent of the portfolio was investment grade and 96 percent was triple a rated with a weighted average duration of approximately three years underscoring its high credit quality and overall liquidity as of quarter and approximately 50 percent or 925 million of our securities portfolio remain unencumbered complementing our 1.1 billion dollars of same day liquidity we believe this combined firepower reinforces the strength of our balance sheet and positions led to organically fund loan origination to drive future earnings growth our 1 billion real estate segment continued to generate stable net operating income in the second quarter the portfolio includes 149 net lease properties comprised primarily of investment grade credits committed to long-term leases with an average remaining lease term of 6.2 years for further details of our second quarter 2026 operating results please refer to our green supplement and our investor presentation both available on our website as well as our quarterly quarterly report on form 10q which we expect to file in the coming days with that i'll let brian take it from here thanks paul given the quarter was more or less as expected i won't focus too much on the numbers paul and pamela gave you other than to reinforce us how our business plan is unfolding right on schedule.

Our loan portfolio is continuing to show steady growth funded by our numerous options of unsecured liabilities and the sale and pay downs of unencumbered securities as we allocate more capital each quarter to higher yielding products. We expect this rotational pattern into higher yielding first mortgage loans to continue through year end, and we expect to issue additional unsecured corporate debt to refinance our four and a quarter percent bonds maturing in early 2027. I'd note that we don't have to issue more debt given our one and a quarter billion dollar undrawn corporate revolver, but we do expect to issue new debt over the next six months when an attractive window opens for issuance. We were pleased to hear that S&P had moved ladder to positive outlook recently and hope that our next bond issuance will be rated investment grade by three rating agencies. We spent a lot of time and effort on our liability complex over the years and it's very rewarding to see benefits that come from our consistent and conservative approach towards liquidity leverage and more most importantly credit when the office sector began to alarm investors after the pandemic we highlighted our top five exposures in an earnings call in the fourth quarter of 2022. At the time, our largest equity exposure to office were two similarly sized portfolios, one in Florida, one in Virginia, totaling $242 million. The Virginia portfolio has since been sold at our basis, and we anticipate selling the Florida portfolio above our current basis before year end. We also had three mortgage loans secured by office properties, one in Alabama for $66 million, which has since paid off in full, and two in Florida, totaling approximately $326 million. Of that, a $215 million mortgage on a Miami office building paid off in full in the second quarter of this year, and the remaining loan was paid down by approximately $30 million a while ago from $110 million to $80 million today, where we still carry it. We expect this loan to pay off by year end also. In a sector that delivered huge losses in many companies we competed with, we now look reasonably likely to benefit from a full return of capital on our five largest office exposures as depicted four years ago. There are no guarantees this will go as planned, but it is the base case scenario we are operating We seem to have fared better than most over this difficult time period, and this is why we have had lower charge-offs and have maintained a fairly steady book value for our share price. Our debt complex is now in place to safely support our growing asset base, and we are very pleased with the reception bond investors welcomed us with as we issued our first investment-grade corporate bond last summer. In short, they understood our conservative approach towards investing in commercial real estate, but now we have to turn our full attention to our stock price that seemingly reflect none of the differentiated features of our company. These features include, but are not limited to, one, an internally managed structure, two, our middle market lending preferences, three, our conservative use of leverage, four, our access to many low-cost options to finance our businesses, five, our balanced approach to risk-reward relationships when allocating capital, six, our stable book value and attractive quarterly cash dividend, and seven, an ownership structure where management and the board are among the largest shareholders of the company. We believe the equity markets incorrectly compare us to other commercial mortgage rates based solely on what we own on the asset side of our balance sheet. It seems that common ownership of various commercial real estate related products is where that analysis ends. We think there is much more to comparative analysis than similar asset types, and we will now work tirelessly to broaden our investor base to include investors who generally invest in lower-yielding investment-grade property REITs, regional banks, and T-bills. We think our correct comp set should be chosen by how we finance our assets rather than by what assets we own. This is difficult, but let's remember that Ladder is the only investment-grade commercial mortgage REIT in the United States, so naturally we will need to market our company to investors that have not seen anything quite like us in a very long time. We needed to get the liability side of Ladder squared away first, given how integral our differentiated financing methodology is to understanding the value of our shares over We're not looking to convert holders of non-investment-grade commercial mortgage REITs with tenuously high dividends into owning our stock instead. Rather, we're trying to convert holders of lower-yielding investment-grade property REITs into our 9-plus percent dividend-yielding investment-grade company. We're also aiming to convert a small portion of record levels of cash and T-bills and money market funds into owning our nearly three times higher yielding but still conservative commercial mortgage REIT that also happens to be the only investment grade mortgage REIT in the country. We kick off this effort starting today and I direct your attention to just one slide in our online investor presentation, slide five. This slide condenses my words into an easy to understand illustration, and I welcome comments regarding our approach to accessing investors who seek higher yields in a cash-heavy market with our one-of-a-kind vehicle. We can now take some questions.

Thank you. The question and answer session will be conducted electronically. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. The confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star 2 to remove yourself from the queue. For participants using a speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up the handset before pressing the star keys. One moment while we poll for questions. One moment, please. Our first question comes from Timothy Descatino with B. Riley.

Hi, thank you for taking the questions and congrats on the quarter. It seems like the rotation from securities into loan portfolio picked up this quarter. And if I'm reading slide nine correctly, it seems like most of the security sold came from three to five year duration. And so I guess thinking about as that rotation continues through year end, how do you go about selecting what securities to sell to try to get a better understanding of why it might be longer duration? uh thank you hello ladies and gentlemen we are currently experiencing type of difficulties

please stand by the event will resume momentarily speakers please go ahead because your line is are open all right we hear you apologies for the disconnect but we're back

so you were hearing me now yep we can hear you all right awesome yeah so it seems like the uh The shift from securities to the loan portfolio picked up this quarter, and it seems, if I'm reading slide nine correctly, that most of that rotation came from longer-duration securities in the three to five years. So I was just wondering, how do you think about the selection of what securities to sell as you rotate that capital?

This is Brian, by the way. We generally just group them into what is the objective of the day. And if the objective is simply to fund a new loan that we're originating and we need the cash for it, we'll generally sell something that is paid down quite a bit with a low factor because we've owned it for several years. So while it's quite safe, the instrument, it might be a 20% LTV across a pool of assets, it's going to pay off in your term. So anything that looks like it's about to pay off is what we select first when we're just trying to generate cash to close loans. Sometimes, you know, when markets get, especially when rates rise a little bit, spreads can tighten. And so we did see some attractive pricing, too. And everything we sold was a floater. So when you say, you know, longer duration, it's still kind of, you know, it's very hard to make a lot of money on a floating rate AAA because it just doesn't swing around a lot in price. But we were able to sell quite a few at a gain of about a half a point. And that added, I think, $1.8 million to the quarter. So the selection criteria is usually what's about to be cash first. Secondly, what are we up and maybe feel mispriced about that we might be selling at a high price? And then last, we've never gotten to that, but if we ever got to it, we would then start taking larger positions to generate capital quickly. But the beauty of that AAA sale complex is that you get your cash 24 hours later.

Okay, great. And then I guess with that rotation, obviously, the two percentage points you pick up from 5% securities to 7% loans. I guess, could you help us quantify maybe the cost associated with that rotation just to get a better understanding of the process? Thank you.

I may be misunderstanding the question, but there is no cost to it, to my knowledge. We simply sell the securities, get cash and then fund the loan at, for instance, in April, I believe we got paid off on $215 million in the Miami office loan. And I think two days later, we made another loan for $268 million. So I don't know what kind of cost you're talking about. You mean breakage costs or hedge costs?

No, I was thinking more of, you know, like originate, like cost to originate that next loan. Obviously, you're picking up the 2%.

But, you know, in the meantime, as you originate the loan and put that money to work I was thinking you know how much how much does that cost you kind of maybe corporate overhead origination cost that might eat into it in that quarter yeah given we have that large revolver that has a same day delivery on on cash we don't travel with a lot of cash overnight anymore we also have such low leverage that the idea of a margin call would be pretty surprising too because half of the assets are unencumbered completely but But so the cost, the mark, the opportunity cost, if you will, would be, you know, we take a week amount of securities at 5%. We might stick it overnight into a money market fund at 375 and then whenever the loan closes. But we usually sell those securities in tandem with loans closing. We don't, they're not random events. They take place together.

Okay, great. Thank you so much for taking the questions today.

Sure. Our next question we'll hear from John Nicodemius with BTIG.

Hi. Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. In the past, your team has cited concentration risk with respect to your origination decisions, including the origination year. now that about, if I have my numbers right, 37% of your loan book has been originated this year and 85% across 2025 and 2026. How is that average vintage setup affecting your deployment plans for the back half of the year? Thanks.

In very rough numbers, we try to set the company up to originate four to $500 million a quarter. We're not particularly concerned if we don't originate that much, nor are we concerned if we originate twice as much. But so we're not going to experience a lot of paydowns after now. Most of our legacy loan portfolio has paid off. So I think we were experiencing some large payoff quarters, which I'm sure you saw, and we were redeploying that capital. And sometimes that took a little while, but we're past that point now. So I would say if we're going to fund additional loans, and we will, and that 85%, you know, that 50% of the inventory will climb over time into the loan book. But when we do that, we'll probably either access the corporate revolver that is undrawn, or else we'll just sell AAA securities. I think we have about 900 million of those with no leverage on them. So it's 24-hour turnaround for cash. I don't know if I'm answering you right there, but I think the message is that paydowns are slowing down dramatically, but not because of the credit reason, just because they got older and they're hitting maturities.

Got it. No, that's very helpful, Brian. Thank you. And then other one from me, during last quarter's call, you discussed how much borrower appetite can quickly shift due to either a change in rates or macro volatility. with rates markedly up since then, you know, volatility still present, obviously we've seen what's gone on the past couple of days. How have you been seeing borrowers react, you know, both late in the second quarter and now that we're into the third quarter here? Thank you.

Yeah, well, higher rates will deter all but the most ardent borrowers that need to get something done. So I think the first thing you'll see with the higher rates is that there's an actually an initial push to close loans because those that are under application want to get them closed because they're afraid rates might move even higher. But after that, there's usually a gap and things slow down. And you'll see this in mortgage servicers and how the residential market works. But borrower appetite is very picky right now. So it is a rather competitive environment. And they are, at least in our floating rate book, our spreads have been rising. So that sounds like I contradicted myself. But what we're doing now that we're getting more deployed and we have less headroom to go on our maximum asset base that we'll optimize over time. And so as of now, we've kind of stiffened on price and also on credit conditions. So whereas we might have been a little aggressively competing on any given multifamily loan a year ago, we're a lot less so now. We pretty much set our prices, and if borrowers want to close, they will. What we are seeing more of, though, and I don't think it has anything to do with interest rates, is there's a lot of price discovery popping up as office buildings are being sold by lenders, either who had foreclosed or else who are selling the notes at a deep discount in cooperation with the next buyer and the old borrower. So that's happening. But there seems to be this sense in the United States that the office market is recovering, and it is to some degree. But I would point out that it's really just two cities that are really doing well, and that's San Francisco and New York. I don't see any recovery whatsoever in Chicago or Los Angeles or Washington, D.C., where the government drives a lot of that business. But you do see a lot of activity in those cities, and what's happening is lenders on legacy assets are thrown in the towel, and they're finally just taking their medicine and taking the loss. So you'll see a lot of prints, but I don't want you to think there's a lot of borrowing going on there. There's a, it's usually very challenged assets that are going to take quite a while to stabilize. We're happy to do some of those with the right party who can execute their business plan. But when it's a refinance of somebody who is already having a problem and he's had a loan for five years, I would not expect much to change in the next couple of years with the same owner. So I think the long story there is the market is, Ladder is getting fuller on its inventory, so Ladder is charging more for a smaller amount of liquidity remaining to redeploy.

Great. Appreciate all the color. That's all from me.

And next, I'll move to Chris Mueller with Citizens Capital.

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking the questions, and congrats on a solid quarter here. So I guess picking up on a prior line of questioning here, you guys have talked about pretty extensively being able to flip capital from the securities portfolio to the bridge portfolio. But bridge portfolio is up about a billion year over year, and securities portfolio is pretty flat. So that gives you plenty of capacity to grow the bridge portfolio going forward. I guess, how do you think that dynamic plays out in the back half of the year?

Could we see the securities portfolio get down to like a billion-ish type number, or is that too aggressive of a pace? no i think that's very possible um yeah i've been asked a couple of times on these calls uh you know how many securities do you intend to own forever i that's almost like asking me how much cash do you want to hold on a regular basis because i kind of view them the same way especially short triple a floaters but um i i think we will be cutting into that inventory of securities um between now and year end and i think that number will go down and it could go down quite a bit, depending on how active the origination arm is.

Got it. It's good to hear. And then I ask you guys this one all the time, but on the conduit business, nice to see a little bit of that in the quarter. I think that's the second quarter in a row, but still well below what you guys used to do pre-COVID. So is that business going to start ramping up, do you think, in the back half of the year, or is our interest rates really too choppy for that to really ramp?

Yeah, I probably would have answered that question differently a month ago, but I think it is too choppy right now. And if you actually take a look, never mind the latter, but if you just take a look at the CMBS business and the issuance over the years, there has been a steady decline in issuance, and it's only recently started to pick up. But the amount of eligible assets that can get into a five-year or a 10-year fixed-rate loan right now after the downturn since 2021 on, there's just not a lot. So, that's why you're actually seeing a lot of CMBS deals with sometimes eight, nine originators, you know, because everyone's trying to amass a critical mass to go with their deal. But I don't really see the volume picking up. And a cautionary note there that most of the loans in the conduit business, the CMBS origination arm, are cash out refinances. And a cash out refinance in this market after what we went through in zero interest rates and expenses through inflation is, in my opinion, a rare animal. So I get a little bit concerned when almost everything is a refinance and nothing is an acquisition. To me, that's a flag. And I think all it really is is not a danger flag. It's just a flag that says we're happy to go slow on this product because we're going to be very picky. and also that it's going to be slow. And these rates, just today's rate movements will, you'll see a lot of CMBS deals in the pipeline that are going to move a month or two and might even just go further than that. But we're at the point, I would say once we cross the 450 on the 10-year, and I think that slows things down and I think that'll come through, you'll see that on residential side too and those REITs that have a lot of you know inter-sensitive home loans.

Got it. It's all very helpful. I appreciate you guys taking the questions today.

Sure. And next we'll move to Jade Rahmani with KBW.

Hi. Hi. This is Jason Safran for Jade. Thanks for taking the questions.

So in your corporate presentation you outlay a distributable EPS target of 26 to 27 cents um just curious what's the target time frame for achieving that and do you see ways to grow beyond that thanks yeah this is paul that that's just reflective of what we've historically stated which is we think our business can achieve a high single digit low double digit roe if you just simply apply that to our book value per share that's where that's what generates that number. So the time frame of which is always, you know, subject to timing of when our loan portfolio closes and the generation of gains in our multi-cylinder business. But, you know, it's something we've historically stated. We just put some numbers to it in our presentation.

Got it. Thanks.

To hit on multifamily, it'd be great to hear about what you're seeing as the supply headwinds started to abate some and is rent growth still muted thanks uh rent growth definitely still muted um although settling uh the the pay they speak concessions offered by the landlord to achieve certain term leases in multi-family yeah they are the whole story about the sunbelt being a little overbuilt and in particular maybe austin texas that's true um and i think the ice situation for a c bit class low b high c type properties is probably more impacted. You'll see some quick vacancies drops that I personally in my career have never seen in a two-week period in time. But I think that that'll largely correct itself. And I would say rents are nearly done falling, but the expense side is still a little tricky with a lot of municipalities raising taxes. So I still think it's a bit of a dangerous business to tell you the truth because you're selling something shelter to a party that is pinched for cash generally and getting more pinched as other expenses go up. So that can become a little bit problematic. We try to avoid that not by trying to be better than anybody else. We just try to avoid anything other than newer properties with lower leverage and sponsors who have hung in for a while. And you can really get a chance to see that now because a lot of these borrowers have just been through a very difficult period of time. So you get a forensic look at what they did during 2023 and 2024 when they had some problems. We also are seeing some loans where people are going under application with us, say for $80 million, and they're coming to the closing with $20 million cash in. That's a refinance, cash in refi, but it feels like a purchase to me. And we really do like those things. And we also still favor new properties, especially ones coming off construction because you're just watching a lease-up take place, and you've got to borrow with plenty of equity in those deals.

Got it. Thank you.

And as a reminder to everyone, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. Next, we'll move to Gabe Pogge with Raymond James.

Hey, good morning, and thanks for taking the question. So, ladder's a few quarters into kind of rotating the portfolio, right? Much higher loan origination from the securities book and Pamela you talked about you know picking up 200 basis points uh in that rotation how should we think about net interest income right uh from just a loan book inflecting higher at some point on your uh on your borrowing base right because NII has been flat for the last three quarters as you've kind of gone through this is that a timing issue is there a point in time where that inflects higher just help us think about that I don't think there's a straight line answer on that.

I think the answer is it depends on the portfolio. So we have a couple, as Brian said earlier, we're being very selective and picky about our assets. We're trying to originate about $400 million to $500 million a quarter. And the weighted average spread can range from $275 million to $350 million, depending on the asset. And the lumpiness and how we've done one or two larger loans. So it really is a blend. And the timing will depend on the closing. right now as i said we have about 500 million in pipeline for uh this coming quarter and you know candidly the spreads on the higher side of that but if one of the loans don't pan out in diligence it could quickly it could quickly drop back into line with the you know the average of 3 315 that we've been doing so um a long way of saying that i think if you want to project out you should take about four to five hundred million dollars a quarter at somewhere roughly call it 300 spread.

Yeah, and so I think the bottom line that you asked about on the net interest income, it should continue to rise. I don't think it'll take off dramatically, but I do think we'll see our distributable earnings going up because of other things. Our dividend is not fully covered by its net interest income. We have the other barrels that we use and where we allocate capital. And I do believe those will be performing pretty nicely over between now and year end.

I think you talked about a combination of both net rental income on our real estate assets, but also as we alluded to on the call, we expect to monetize a few equity positions. And then if we do a one-off conduit. So what we're really trying to remind the market is that we have these, what people will call a one-time gain on sale and any individual gain is a one-time gain, but collectively adds up over the year. And Brian has long held we should be looking at ladder as an annual year-over-year analysis rather than quarter-over-quarter because of that lumpiness.

Gabe, I want to revisit something, too, that actually ladder was out in front of when the Fed went on their hiking campaign when they raised rates 550 basis points. On one of our earnings calls, we said if rates go up by 50 or 100 basis points, here's what happens to our earnings. Today, Paul, I think, correct me if I have this wrong, but I don't know what will happen at the Fed. He's going to play it a lot closer to the vest, but generally, I think he leans towards higher rates, but he might have jawboned this market into higher rates without actually moving. But I do think if, let's say they raise rates 25 or 50 basis points, this is an advantage for Ladder because we have a large fixed rate component on our liability side that doesn't go up. So, and Paul, how many dollars per, what's the cents per share if they raise it by 25 and 50?

Two cents per share quarterly.

And I bring that up because, you know, the SOFR was at 365 for a long time. I think it's at 370 something this morning. And it does look to be pointing higher. I don't think there's any general direction that the Fed is going to take and continue raising rates. But I do think Warsh would like to pull back one of those recent cuts, and I suspect he will. But I don't think he's going to do it in July. He doesn't have to.

Thank you for those comments. It was more just, and that was all very helpful. The real estate, the hard assets at Ladder are adding to the bottom line. I fully appreciate that as well as, you know, to Pamela's point, the other kind of gain on sales that add up over time. It was just kind of an idea from the loan book, parsing out the loan book perspective. But that commentary is helpful.

I think that unique, not unique, but there are times when all of our products are green light. And it's unusual because they're meant to be stressed in certain environments. But right now, with the other than the fact that there's a volume challenge going on as to finding high-quality real estate to lend on, I think all of our silos are going to be kicking in. And certainly, I think your initial question, net interest income, that should be rising.

Thank you very much. Okay.

And at this time, there are no further questions that will conclude the question and answer session. I would like to turn it back over to Brian Harris for any additional or closing remarks.

Sure. Thanks, Operator. And thank you for joining us today. Those of you who call in later, thanks, too. But we'll see you again soon. Things are going pretty well here. I think we've got some positive surprises that should benefit everybody, all the shareholders near term. And we're somehow sailing along here and feel pretty comfortable where we are. The question I get asked a lot of times on interest rates, would I rather have rates up or down as a lender? I'd rather have them up because there's simply more dollars of interest being paid through the system. So I'll leave it at that and look forward to the next one. Thank you.

And that will conclude today's call. We thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.