Las Vegas Sands Corp (LVS) Q3 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the SANS 3rd Quarter 2025 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen-only mode, but we will open the floor for your questions and comments following the presentation. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at SANS. Sir, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Paul. During the call today, Rob Goldstein, Chairman and CEO, Patrick Dumont, President and Chief Operating Officer, Executive Vice-Chairmen of China and Bradshaw. CEO and president of our Asia organization. Today's conference call will contain we'll be making those statements under the safe harbor provision. The language on Portland statements included in our press also applies to our comments made on the culture. The company's actual results made different materially. In addition, we'll discuss non-GAAP measures. Reconciliation to the most comparable GAAP financial measure we have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that. We ask those with interest to please post one question and one follow-up. I'll now turn the call over to Paul.

Thank you, Dan. Good afternoon. Thanks for joining us. Marina Bay Sands delivered EBITDA of $743 million. We had forecasted that MBS could do $2.5 billion annually. It turns out we were too conservative. We should easily exceed that figure in 2025. MBS is currently over $2.1 billion EBITDA this year with a quarter still to go. Mass gaming and slot win was a record $905 million, reflecting 122% growth from Q3 of 2019 and 35% higher than last year. We are in the right place at the right time for the right product. Singapore is a highly desirable destination, and our product is superb. It's difficult to find superlatives described in magnitude of this result. Operating performance at MBS is unprecedented in the history of our industry. Macau delivered $601 million to EBITDA for the quarter, which reflects improvement in our financial results. The typhoon negatively impacted our reported EBITDA by about $20 million. We have underperformed in the Macau market for the past few years. We believed our buildings would be enough to compete favorably.

We were wrong.

We've adapted to the market and changed our approach in the second quarter of 2025 to enable us to be more competitive. Our mass market revenue jumped to 25.4% this quarter, up to 23.6% in the first quarter of 2025. We expect additional share gains and EBITDA growth in the fourth quarter. Our assets remain the strongest in the Macau market. For London, it's moving towards $1-plus billion of EBITDA. We have meaningful opportunities for growth improvement throughout our Macau property portfolio. Importantly, the Macau market's GGR is growing. When you couple this back with our assets and our recent marketing changes, we believe we'll continue to improve in the fourth quarter and beyond. Let's hear it from Patrick.

Macau EBITDA was $601 million. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $2 million. When adjusted for a higher-than-expected hold in the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin in the Macau portfolio properties would have been 31.5%, down 160 basis points compared to the third quarter of 2021. We are focused on delivering revenue and cash flow growth at the Londoner and across the Margin at the Venetian was 35%, while margin at the Londoner was 31.9%. We expect growth in EBITDA's revenues grow, and as we use our scale and product advantages together with targeted incentives to better address every market segment, we see opportunity in every segment. Now turning to Singapore, MBS's EBITDA for the quarter was $743 million at a margin of 51.7%. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $43 million. With this quarter's results, we are putting in place a new methodology for the theoretical hold percentage of rolling Baccarat play for the quarter. This new approach has been enabled by the introduction of smart tables on our Baccarat games in Singapore. This technology has now been in place at our rolling block rod tables at Marina Bay Sands for over one year. Please see slide 7 in the earnings materials for more detail. We have provided theoretical hold rates for rolling block rod plates the last five quarters at Marina Bay Sands. There will naturally be fluctuations in theoretical hold rates in any specific quarter driven by player betting preferences. The record financial results of Marina Bay Sands reflect the impact of high-quality investment in market-leading product and the growth in high-value tourism. We believe we are still in the initial stages of realizing the benefits of our investments in Marina Bay Sands. According to our program to return capital to shareholders, we were purchased $500 million in LBF stock during the quarter. We also paid our recurring quarterly dividend of $0.25 per share. Our Board of Directors has approved an increase in our quarterly dividend of 20% for the 2026 calendar year, or $1.20 per share per year, or $0.30 per share per quarter. In addition, during the third quarter and in July, we purchased $337 million of SEL stock, increasing the company's ownership percentage of SEL to 74.76% as of today. We believe for Repurchases of LBS equity for our share repurchase program will be meaningfully accretive to the company and its shareholders over the long time. We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's share repurchase program to increase returns to shareholders. Thanks again for joining the call today, and let's take some time.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the floor is now open for questions. If you would like to enter the queue to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad now. If you're listening on speakerphone today, please pick up your handset to provide optimum sound quality. Also, we ask each participant to limit yourselves to one question and one follow-up. Please hold a moment while we pull for questions. And the first question today is coming from Dan Politzer from JPMorgan. Dan, your line is live.

Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. So first, Singapore, I want to go back to the hold rate. You know, obviously, you guys raised it, the 4.2% for VIP. Is there any impetus or desire or potential to raise the mass hold? Because that one's been going up, too. So, I guess, one, is that directionally similar in terms of the benefit that you're seeing from the smart tables? And, two, is that something you would ever give, you know, a whole range for?

Yeah, I think right now what you're seeing is a rollout onto the floor where we can get accurate rolling table data. So, we're not there yet to give you data on the mass floor. because, remember, it's a mix of games. So it's not just BACRA. So I think that's an important point to note. And the other thing is we don't really normalize mass hold because of the volume of play, the bet size, and getting to the, you know, let's call it the theoretical. So for us, it's much more meaningful to deal with the rolling programs because of the volatility of the hold in that segment.

Got it. That makes sense. And then just turning to Macau, this is more of a high-level one. You know, London does seem like it's turned the corner. You guys have been marketing broadly across the portfolio there. Can you kind of talk about that path back to $2.7, $2.8 billion of EBITDA that you kind of laid out as maybe a soft target last quarter? How are you pacing, you know, in terms of getting back there? You know, would you say that you need the market to kind of pick up from here to get there, or can you kind of do this independent of the market health?

I would say, Dan, you can't do it independent of the market. You need market growth, which you're experiencing, thankfully, in Macau. The overall markets, you know, could be next year, $33, $34 billion. We need, everyone needs market growth to make the account numbers work better. But we also had to make changes. We've been making those changes the last, I don't know, four or five months and adapt to the market, which is, we did not participate. We are now participating. Probably we're halfway there. Another half to go. But I think when you marry the market growth to our assets, to our new marketing programs, yes, we can get to our target. But critical is the market growth. That's essential for all of us. Otherwise, we're just the same customers are circulating. But you're seeing, you know, we're coming off the bottom here. We're getting better. Probably 620 is the right number if you take out the typhoon. It's a respectable quarter. It's not our goal. Our goal, as you know, is to get to 2728. We're not there yet. I think we're making progress, and we keep putting down. The team has to stay in sync with the market to look at those results.

Yeah, I think this quarter what we saw was, I think, some of our reinvestment programs coming to fruition in terms of productivity across London, yes, because this is the first quarter we've had the full deployment of the Londoner grand rooms and suites, and on the product side, that definitely helped us. And then to Rob's point, in terms of our marketing strategies, responding to the market dynamics, we've obviously adjusted our reinvestment rates across the portfolio, not uniformly. Obviously, some of our smaller properties have had a bigger boost in our reinvestment ratios, as you can see, and we're seeing the results of that. You can see that both year on year and sequentially, we are outgrowing the market for the first time in a long time when we look at the mass GTO.

I think, you know, the weak links in our portfolio are in Parisian and Sands, especially, you know, Parisians come way off the highs and about 50% of it's what used to be because of EBITDA performance. I think we have a lot of value in that property. London, as you referenced, is fine. Venetian is okay. And I just think we've got to come off the bottom and Sands get that back to being competitive. But, you know, it's underway. It's progressing.

It just takes a lot of work and a lot of focus got it thanks so much and congrats on the nice quarter thank you thank you the next question is coming from sean kelly from bank of america sean your line is live hi good afternoon everyone thank you for taking my questions um uh to whoever wants to take it uh i want to go back to singapore uh because the smart table initiative is is super interesting um can we just unpack a little bit though about like what's the underlying betting behavior or change that would sort of be driving such a material increase? I mean, obviously on your numerator, you know, this type of change in hold would suggest some sort of underlying behavioral change or mix change. So is it mix of bettors, you know, and maybe getting more casual better? Or is it a, you know, mix in, again, what, you know, what games or in what bets they're making? Because, I mean, historically, we think of Baccarat in particular as being extremely simple player banker. So how is the smart table piece evolving in a way that we're seeing an actual underlying change in behavior? Thanks.

Sure. And just to be clear, the smart table is just the scorekeeper, the umpire, the referee. It doesn't make this stuff happen. What makes it happen is, as you alluded to, historically, Bakra has been a 2-8-5. When I began this industry, Bakra was a boring game. It was a sub-3, whole percentage game. There was no much a lot of juice in it. And it stayed that way for decades. What's changed in Bakara is not the smart table. That's the score key. What's changed is the game itself offers a lot more opportunities to gamble different ways. It's analogous to sports bets. And your side bets and sports bets, the prop bets, the side bets, honestly, the low percentage bets for the customer are playing your favor. And this is simply mathematics. This isn't casual bettors. This this is sophisticated bettors, this is everybody gravitating towards side bets, their house advantage. And that's what's happening here. I don't think we tell you it's 4.1 or 4.2. That's what the smart tables tell us. The scorekeeper said, hey, these guys are making these bets and that results in this result. It has the game, as you alluded to, has changed dramatically from the old days, was kind of a state game. It's a very interesting game. You have lots of opportunities to lose your money different ways. And people are, especially in Singapore, we're seeing all levels, not just casual, but seasoned pros seem to want to bet these side bets. And it's become very powerful. And a company like ours, which is Baccarat dependent, it's a powerful driver of revenue and EBITDA flow through. So what you're seeing in Singapore is simply not the smart table helping us, but the gain deviations help us. And the customer's willing to bet those deviations has driven this thing to four plus percent, which is astounding when you think back to what used to be a very boring 2.85 game for years. But that's a simple factor. This isn't an anomaly. It's just the way the market's proceeding. I think you'll see it happen to Cal as well. And for this company, it's a massive, massive change in the opportunity to make more money.

I think you have to give credit to our gaming innovation team for their willingness to really look at the customer experience and add the opportunity to enhance that experience through some higher volatility bets. which the customers are actually using. And it's their preference, right? They could choose not to use them, but they seem to be very popular. They create a better gaming experience and better enjoyment in the game. And so we're very fortunate that our team continues to innovate and try these things, and the market has received them quite well. And so I think the smart table system has helped us measure these bets better, but it's a practical matter. It's just, as Rob said, it's about having the bets on the table and having the customers enjoy using them.

Very clear. Thanks. Thanks. And Rob, you kind of went where I was going to take it, which I think is the next logical place, which is the ability to expand these types of bets or this type of table to other markets, obviously Macau being the big opportunity. So can you just talk a little bit about either where you're at in rolling that out, what segments? I mean, I would assume, given that sort of the junket-based VIP business is no longer a thing there, but perhaps in-house VIP or premium mass would have some real opportunities. So where are you at? What inning are you in? And then just maybe super high level. Is this technology or these that's, are these proprietary to you all? I mean, I know there's kind of open secrets in, you know, in gaming, but I mean, are you, you are developing these in-house? There's not like a third party that's kind of brought these to you from a sort of just pure optionality perspective?

Yeah, we probably were the initiators a bunch of decades ago. We started this process with someone. We grew that team. The team is now expanded. So we were the initiator. We're not, though, it's not proprietary. We can't, we don't have control. People can copy these bets. They are copying these bets, which, by the way, doesn't, it shouldn't be a problem. It's good for the industry to grow. Yes, we're moving towards this in Macau. Yes, the smart table system will be there as well as the scorekeeper. And so as the Macau market has more opportunity, you're seeing it happen already. I think you'll see the pros go up there as well. It's more advantageous thus far in Singapore, but we are moving into Macau, as is the Macau market. If you go look at the layouts now, they're fraught with side bets all over the place. In fact, some of the times you can't find the flat bet. It's so busy with alternatives. But, yeah, it's moving in that direction, Macau. No, it's not proprietary. Yes, we did develop it. I think we've initiated it. And, again, the confusion is sometimes people think it's a smart table, which is not true at all. The smart table gives you a better measurement stick to know how many bets they're making on the side and what that means to the mathematics. And I think what Patrick's alluding to with the 4-1 or 4-2 is we have good evidence that this is not a guess anymore. It should be this. For years, we wrestle with what's the correct whole percentage. There is no correct whole percentage. It depends on that quarter that those people bet. We could have a quarter that comes in at 5-1 or come in 3-8. It depends on what the players at the table bet at that time, and every bet is calculated. So, yes, it's going to move towards Macau. And I think it's very helpful for not just this company, but others to make the gaming more interesting, more diversified. And I don't think it's tied to the high end, by the way. Mass customers love it too. Small bettors, large bettors. And you bet the sports book, the biggest prop bettors are the small guys. The guys are betting $100 a game. They love betting props. And I think Baccarat is similar to sports betting in that regard.

Completely get it.

Thank you. The next question is coming from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley. Stephen, your line is live.

Hey, thank you. So you've upped the dividend for next year and you keep the pedal down on buyback. At the same time, you have the disclosure around CapEx is coming down as well over the next year. So one thing you didn't touch on, I guess, that you talked about in the past is just maybe a willingness to buy back some of the shares in Hong Kong as well. So, Love, any thoughts that you have there or other capital allocation opportunities?

So, I think the best thing is we are a capital allocation story and a return on capital story. You know, you look at the company's history, we've been very shareholder friendly. We allocate capital with growth in mind. So, we invest for high returns. But when those high return investment opportunities are available, we return the capital. And we try to do it through dividends in a prudent manner and through shareholder purchases. And so, I think that's where you're seeing us today. We did buy back SEL for the last little while. If you can kind of see where we're at, we're basically getting close to the limit. We're at 74.76%, I think the number is. And, you know, we can't really go past 75. So I think for us right now, we're kind of where we are at SEL. But our goal is to continue to return capital both at SEL and at the parent code a friendly way for shareholders. And so you'll see us continue to do that.

Makes sense. and maybe changing gears a little bit, just going back to Macau, would love any further color you could provide on kind of characterizing the strength that we've seen in VIP. I mean, it's been quite a while since we've seen this level of growth. Is that really just more semantics around where customers are preferring to bet or is that a new customer who's coming in?

Steven, let me take that. Yes, I think the VIP has outgrown the Masters year over the last few months. In some cases, some months, it's been very high rates of growth. I think it is driven by some concentration of super high-end VIP players, as well as increased liquidity in the market. This quarter, we haven't participated as much in that segment, but we are going to be getting more competitive in that segment as well. And, of course, we have introduced, re-entered the junket market this quarter. Of course, the growth of that segment in the past few months has also driven the rolling market. But at this point, it still remains a low margin segment, which typically is going to stay around 12% to 15% of the overall GGR. But we're also focused on growing that segment. But obviously, the bulk of the profit growth is going to come from the non-rolling market.

Thank you. Thank you. The next question will be from Brandt Montour from Barclays. Brandt, your line is live.

Hey, everybody. Thanks for taking my question. I just want to double click on that comment. I think that we all kind of see the premium mass led inflection since midyear. But it sounds like, even looking at your slides, base mass per table was up nicely. And so I guess, Rob, for you, the question is that, you know, for the market to grow, you know, what you need the market to grow, 33-34, you know, when you think about that growth, does that require a broadening out of the depth and breadth of base mass? And are you seeing early signs of that inflection for that particular cohort?

I think it's impossible to say where it comes from. I'll be honest with you. You know, the junket, the rolling, the non-rolling, the mass, it's very hard to define. I think what's important to see is happening. I mean, the market looks to me like it's, we don't know if October comes in. I'd say it comes in 7%, 8%, 9% deal a year. But it feels like there's a stronger trend over there. Macau is recovering in different segments. Obviously, we like a base mass recovery, but there's nothing with premium mass. I don't have real insight to where it could come from. I just hope it comes. Because I think the key thing for all Macau, for all the operators, for profitability and growth is to see this GGR acceleration. Grant, maybe you see it differently.

I think that's right. And it is obviously helpful, especially to us, if the base mass grows faster because of our advantage in that segment, but also the margin structure in that segment is very favorable. I think if you look at this quarter, you're right. Year on year, our base mass actually grew 18%. But part of that reflects the fact that prior year, we had the closure of the Pacifica Casino, which is now the London Grand Casino. If you look at sequentially, premium mass, we still grew faster than base mass, 11 percent versus 7 percent. But yes, I think the summer was positive for base mass. But again, I would characterize the bulk of the growth in this market, even in a non-rolly, is still dominated by the upper tiers of the value segment.

Okay, thanks for that. Just a quick question on Singapore, obviously, really strong results in the third quarter in MBS. And that was without the F1 race, which, you know, usually falls in September. It fell in October this year. So you didn't have that in the third quarter. What, you know, what order of magnitude or how should we think about how impactful that event is that sort of has now moved into the fourth quarter for you now this year?

Well, first off, it's a great event, and it's a great event globally, and it's one of the most important F1 events, and it's phenomenally attended, and it really helps Singapore. And we're actually really supportive of it and involved in its presentation, so we're very happy about that. As a practical matter, you can see the demand of Marina Bay Sands as a product, and that even with F1 in a different part of the calendar year, we continue to perform through that. So I think F1 is helpful, something that we really enjoy having in Singapore. It's great for visitation. It increases the prestige of Singapore by having such a prominent race there. It drives a lot of high-value visitation, much of which ends up at Marina Bay Sands. We're very happy about it, but where it falls on the calendar is okay. We're fine.

I've got to say that in the last couple of years, we've had all these people pointing to F1 or Taylor Swift. I don't know. I don't think it matters all that much. I think Singapore has taken a whole new – we can't figure out how high it is up. This thing just keeps getting stronger and stronger. And the reason, to me, is very simple. It's the most favorable location a lot of people high-net-worth to come to, whether F1's there or Taylor Swift's there or whoever's there that week. I think the building is extraordinary. The place is extraordinary. And the events certainly move the customers around. In the end, Singapore is the driver. That space is just well-attended, well-visited, very desirable. And it's become the place to go to in Asia for people who want to gamble at a certain level. And I think that's really the real driver is the unique asset we built, unique room product, and the gambling we provide there, the opportunity to gamble, what you want, how you want. So as much as I respect F1, I respect Taylor Swift, I respect all these drivers, I think Singapore has just gone to a whole new place. And you see these numbers. I thought we were ambitious at 2.5. We probably this year get to, I don't know, 2.7, 2.8, 2.9. But the numbers are there, and it just seems like it's getting more and more desirable at the high end of the market. So extraordinary results. I think no one could have seen these kind of growth, and I don't think it's that tied to special events as much as tied to the place itself. Great.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you. The next question is coming from Robin Farley from UBS. Robin, your line is live.

Great. Thanks. Just going back to your comments about kind of what you hope to achieve in markets here and premium mass. I know you talked about, you know, upgrading the Londoner would kind of give you the assets to do that. You said something earlier in the call about how you're kind of only halfway there with what you hope to do or plan to do there. Can you talk a little bit about what other steps that you'll be taking and sort of what timing when you think about that? Thanks.

Hi, Robin. Let me take that. Yes, I think when you look at the progression in market share, It clearly would come off the bottom in Q1 when we were down at 23.5, 23.6. Now we're two points above that, which is great. But as Rob said, I think we're only halfway through, if that. We started tweaking our programs and changing our marketing programs in the middle of the second quarter. And that ramped up throughout each month in the third quarter. you can see we were improving month on month within the quarter. But I think it's important that we're also considering how each segment has different requirements. So we are marrying the tactical incentives with the product advantage that we have. So in the Londoner that you can see it very clearly what we're doing, not just Londoner Grand, which is nearly open, but also leveraging the other side of London. I've seen good results there. I think in the smaller properties, we have adjusted our marketing programs, but also we set our... So we should be seeing better results from the distribution side because so far what we've benefited most was the launch of London the Grand, but I think there's still a lot to be done, but we're confident.

Great, thanks. And maybe just as one follow-up on a different topic, I don't know if we've heard your thoughts too recently on any potential opportunity in the UAE where, you know, there may be other licenses to give out. Is that something that LVS is interested in and kind of actively engage with? Thanks.

I really appreciate the question. So, you know, we're always looking opportunities to deploy capital and grow our business. And I think you've seen us be very disciplined and be very patient. The UAE is a tremendous tourism market. There's been billions of dollars in investment in the UAE to create tremendous tourism infrastructure. Some of the best hospitality and food and beverage products in the world are located there. And it's a lot of fun to visit. That being said, it's not a market we're looking at this time, but we're following.

Okay, great. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is coming from Lizzie Dove from Goldman Sachs. This is your line of slide.

Hi, thanks for taking the question. So clearly, you know, incredible results in Singapore again. And you mentioned, you know, for this year, 2.7, 2.8, 2.9, who knows? You know, it feels like it's your base, like you said, not tied to one event. But how should we think about it long-term? Like, is this sustainable? Can it, on a whole, just a basis, grow next year? Like, how are you thinking about the kind of longer tail that this sustainability of growth in Singapore?

Well, Lizzie, I'd say we've been wrong all along, for starters. and we've under forecasted this thing we thought we were very ambitious at 2.5 and like i said we're 2.1 plus currently with quarter to go with a big quarter you could do 2.8 2.8 2.9 so is it sustainable hell yes it's very sustainable you're alone over there and you got one competitor which is which uh you know just it's a duopoly it's a market that has you know tremendous support government. And if you've been in the building, it's incredibly well done. I think the team did a great job of building out a one-of-a-kind asset. So yeah, it's very sustainable. The question I can't answer is, does it get to three next year? Does it get to three-two down the road? I don't know. We've been wrong all along. Here we are in 2025. Had you said two years ago, we were delivering $700 million quarters back-to-back, I would have said that's very ambitious. Well, it turns out it was done easily. These last quarters came along pretty well. And so I don't think anyone should question the longevity and sustainability of Singapore. If anything, what I can't figure out is how deep is the well. And I've been wrong, and I'm pretty aggressive by nature in forecasting demand over there. Slot wind is going to break a billion dollars, it looks like. These table winds are extraordinary. It's coming at us from all sides. I think shrinking the building, having all suites versus mostly more rooms is a very good idea. So yeah, I think it's very sustainable. And the question to me is not sustainability. It's how high is up? You know, could this thing hit $3 billion, get to $3.2?

I don't know.

But I didn't think you'd go from, you know, at least a $1.6 billion asset pre-COVID to now it's like a $2.78 billion asset post-COVID. So it's hard to forecast something that feels so powerful. And right now feels to me like it's got more growth to go.

Definitely. Definitely. I guess on that subject, you know, just one event, but making it bigger picture, I guess, on Golden Week, it looked like there was a lot of outbound visitation from China into Singapore. It was up a lot year on year.

And so curious what you're seeing really, even just beyond Golden Week, of just any changes in visitation trends and whether you are, you know, versus Macau seeing that kind of higher-end, you know, Chinese customer visiting Singapore at the expense of Macau and whether you think that might continue yeah we're not we're not really getting in the current quarter but just overall Macau and Singapore are very separate and and typically the catchment area for Singapore is very focused on Southeast Asia and Macau is primarily in Hong Kong and China so different businesses different tourism base different assets but you know we'll talk about this quarter on the next starting spot.

Got it.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is coming from Joe Steff from Susquehanna. Joe, your line is live.

Okay. Thanks. Good afternoon, Rob and Patrick. Just wanted to follow up, Patrick, on your comment about, hey, the opportunity in Singapore in particular is still essentially in the early innings. Obviously, you know, maybe an expansion of other questions. I wondered if you could just maybe talk about the second and third quarter, you know, the strength of the volumes, maybe the things that you learned that surprised you. And then as we think about the opportunity set going forward, I understand it's hard to put a number to it, but maybe some of the bigger layers of opportunity, is it, you know, is it a strategy such that, you know, you'd expect to get a higher level of average spend? Is it geographical reach? You know, are there any puzzle pieces you can give us from that?

There's a lot there in this question. So bear with me. I'm going to try to get through it all. I think the first thing is the way we got to Singapore today in this performance was very deliberate. And it started probably five years ago. We first started charting out where we wanted to go with the asset, given where we thought the direction of growth in high-value tourism would be. And we started off by building a great customer experience by focusing on the physical asset, which took time to both design and then ultimately implement. We redesigned our service teams so that we could better service our customers in a more complete way. And that was also a big lift. We focused a lot on how we sold, how we attracted customers, by developing larger and more geographically spread out marketing teams and sales teams. And all that come together with a very strong management group over time with lots of investment produced this result. So this was not something that happened overnight. It was planned. It was a strategic decision. It was investment over many years in both human capital and physical capital, along with the philosophy with a service focus and a customer experience focus. We focus on a lot of different amenities, how we enhance our entertainment, how we enhance our retail mall, how we enhance our food and beverage, and how we bring it all together so that gaming customers can come in and get a lifestyle experience that can't be replicated anyplace else. And so for us, that was really key. The question is, how do we grow the business more? Well, first off, I think people are just getting to know the new Marina Bay Sands. Remember, the renovation has not been done for that long. We have a lot of customers who maybe experienced Marina Bay Sands a decade ago and are now surprised by what's on offer today. I think the other thing is the quality of tourists that is coming to Singapore is continuing to elevate. There are also a lot of people who are engaging in commerce out of Singapore, and that's growing. So we have a lot of people on the leisure and on the business tourism side that are experiencing marine-based sands, and it's only growing. I think segments that we look to in the future continue to bring high-value tourists in from different parts of the catchment area, and we're working on that. And to be fair, at some point, we're going to run out of capacity, and that's where IR2 comes in. Someone asked us earlier about how we feel about the sustainability of Singapore as a market for us. And I think the biggest statement is that we're investing $2 billion to continue to grow our presence there. And that, to me, is the biggest signal that we're very serious about long-term investment in Singapore. But I think for us, it's going to come from continuing to attract high-value tourists, continuing to bring in high-value business and leisure tourism activities, great entertainment, great retail, continuing to lead in amenities, the investments that are necessary to stay at the forefront of tourism and attract high-value tourists from different markets, and we'll continue to grow. That was the strategy, and we're executing it now.

Thank you for that. Maybe just a quick clarification. Earlier in response to a question on smart table deployment for the mass tables and games area of Singapore, Are you six months? Are you nine months behind, you know, kind of the process that you went through with the rolling tables?

It's not that we're behind. It's that we have it on some games. Remember, our casino floor has Baccarat, has Sikbo, has a bunch of other different gaming products that are there, actually including crafts. Like we've got different types of games out on the floor. And so not all those games are ready for this digital table system. So over time, we'll get there. But remember, we make most of our money from Baccarat. And the area with the most volatility was the rolling programs. And so we started there.

Thanks very much. Great quarter.

Thank you. Thank you. The next question is coming from Chad Benham from Macquarie. Chad, your line is live.

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Just wanted to revisit the comments around reinvestment program. You guys have been very open and honest in terms of your strategy and your competitor's strategy in the market, I guess, here to date in your decision to change that. Have you seen any change with those competitors that maybe are now on a level playing field from a reinvestment strategy and maybe they don't have the product or the service that you guys have and they could potentially step outside of the current zip code of what's being provided to players? Or does it remain pretty rational? Thank you.

Yeah, let me take that. I think in general, the competition remains intense, and we don't foresee that to slow I think what you see is basically constant action and reaction, and we have to stay very alert to those changes, which we are, and like what Rob said, we're going to be laser the focus on basically responding to the market with the right office. I think you can see the benefit of that change in our marketing strategy over this quarter, and that will continue. As to what other people are going to do and how they will respond, I think that's just an evolving picture that we have to monitor. and you would expect that the market would continue to be very competitive. But the positive aspect of the market is that we are seeing GGR growth. And I think that helps all of us. But it will stay competitive. We're very committed to staying ultra competitive.

And then, Patrick, I know the digital gaming business, I guess the doors have been open or slightly open for the past couple of years. You haven't made many moves, but now you're officially closing that door or those windows. So why now? And then any cost saves that we should think about for our models?

Yeah, I think we looked at this for a couple of years. I think we just didn't feel like it was something that we felt would be a good use to shareholder capital, so we shut it down. In terms of cost save, I think it's just things that will come out of development expense that you would have seen in the last year, but that's out now. It wasn't super material.

Thank you very much. Thanks, Chad.

Thank you. The next question will be from George Choi from Citigroup. George, your line is live.

George, good morning.

Hi, George. Please check your mute button.

Go ahead. I was on mute. So, obviously, the encouraging whole rate disclosure in Singapore, very, very solid. But I'm just wondering, when will you do the same thing in Macau? Is there any significant difference in terms of the player behavior on how much they wager on the side bets that make a difference between how you do it in Singapore versus Macau?

One thing to note, that our rolling volumes are much larger relative to our overall gaming win in Singapore. And so there was a real focus there to begin with that. Also, the number of tables are smaller in Singapore than they are in Macau. So I just want to highlight that, but I'll turn it over to Grant to respond to the question.

Yeah, George, just to reiterate the distinction Rob made, that the smart technology helps us to understand what is happening at the table. Independent of that is the player propensity. It's not one leading the other. So I think on the question of propensity to wager in the side wages in Macau, The mix is obviously smaller than in Singapore, but it's also rising, and it has contributed to enhance the house edge over the past several years. And as you, of all of the people here, you're visiting all these casinos, and you can see the layouts are being reinvented every few months with additional sidewages. So that's on the sidewages. In terms of the smart tables, we in Macau have actually fully rolled out on the non-rolling background tables, all of the smart table technology, and we are in the process of completing the rollout in the rolling segment. So within the next few months, we should be able to gauge across the total background.

Thank you very much. As a follow-up, now that we have a myriad of side bets at the Bacara tables in both Singapore and Macau, I'm just wondering how you strike a balance between improving the incremental excitement and experience for players from, you know, obviously these new side bets versus any potential cannibalization amongst the various side bets.

Well, I think the great thing about it is all the original bets are there. So all the bets that people are used to are still in the fells. So this is really just up to the player, just an option. It just gives them some additional volatility if they want to take it. So for us, it's really a player decision. And in some cases, they take it. In some cases, they don't, which is the reason why Robin's remarks said, in Singapore, you may see a quarter where we hold five, or you see a quarter where we hold high threes. It just depends on propensity and the preference of the player to want to make that wager. But as a practical matter, the game has more options. but it doesn't foreclose the ability for them to bet the more traditional way.

If you're on flatbed, you can flatbed all day long, you know, bank player, high pair. It doesn't exclude those bets. It's just like it's no different for years than the Super Bowl. For years, people thought there was something different about the Super Bowl. All it was was they offered 2,000 side bets versus the usual, you know, bet the Packers or the Bears. All we've done here is expand the side bets, but the usual bets are still there, traditional bets, people want to bet. So it's their decision whether to make that decision on what to bet. It's not ours. We don't dictate it.

I think the important thing here to remember is that we are iterative in the way that we apply new bets on the film. So what you see today is after attempts to improve the game experience for people, we're very focused on the experience. So if players like it, that's great. And we keep it out there and they use it. And if it makes their trip more enjoyable, that's fantastic. If it's not something that's preferred by the players, eventually it evolves itself out of the game. And we've had a lot of different iterations of what's on the felt. So I would just view this as an enhancement to the gaming experience mechanism. And so they enjoy the volatility, they enjoy the additional bets, and so they use them. But, you know, as to how those bets will progress over time, players' preferences may change over time. You may see us have different side bets on the felt over time as players change what they want to do.

That's a very important point. at a supermarket. We keep putting things on the shelves that sell and don't sell. We're constantly coming up with new bets all the time. We have a very important committee called the Make More Money Committee. That's job is to find all new bets and deviations of this thing. And if things don't sell, we take it off the table and put something else to try it out. It's evolving all the time. It's kind of a static function.

Thank you very much. George? Thanks, George.

Thank you. The next question will be from David Kaps from Jeffries. David, your line is live.

Good afternoon, everybody. Thanks for taking my question. With respect to Macau, one of the topics of conversation and one of the things that we're tracking very carefully is events, whether they're concerts or otherwise. Can you talk to us about your strategy around those and more specifically, you know, the recent, you know, I know it's it's sort of maybe post the end of the quarter, but I'd love to hear any general comments, learnings, you know, opportunities, et cetera, around the NBA games that were hosted and events in general. Thanks.

So, I think first off, you know, going back to early days of the Venetian with Rob, you know, entertainment has always been front and center. And I think it's something that's always helped us in the gaming business and the perception of the excitement around our properties. We've always been focused on providing high-quality entertainment and actually building the assets to support it. And, you know, many years ago, our SEL built the first arena in Macau for this very reason. And we've been very dedicated to programming it and creating entertainment that's been very successful over the years in creating opportunities for our patients to have a great experience. And I think you'll see that as well in Singapore. We broke ground in mid-July on what we're calling IR2 right now. Eventually, we'll have a name. And we're building a 15,000-seat live performance venue there. that will be the most technologically advanced arena in Asia and provide a great customer experience for live performance. And we're always very focused on it. And so for us, I think it's a very important benefit for a company to have that excitement that goes along with entertainment but also gives our patrons something to experience in the environment as part of the lifestyle that we provide to them. In terms of the MBA, this was something we started working on many years ago. We're very fortunate. The MBA is a great partner. They really pulled out all the stops. They were very supportive. I have to give credit to both the Brooklyn Nets and the Phoenix Suns for the support that they gave to the China Games. They really showed up in force. And their teams did a lot of charity events in the local community. They were great with the fans. Really, just an unbelievable experience. And our team was very excited because the reaction in Macau was very strong. I think just some of the goals we set out for this event was to create something that brought a unique form of entertainment to highlight Macau and to showcase the investment that we've made and how high-quality Macau is as a global tourism destination. And I think that goal was achieved. I think the media coverage, the social media into China, the social media externally around the globe has been very positive. I think the teams played very competitively. I think it was a great format for the league. And so I think that benefits SANS China because of that collaboration. I think it created a lot of excitement for our patients when they actually came to the games. And there was this outstanding visitation, and there was a heightened sense of visitation around the business. In terms of the impact, again, we'll talk about it at the end of this quarter. We'll have better data. But I think overall it was a very strong success. We're very happy with the results. I think our fans, fans of the NBA, were very happy. I think we did a lot of things that helped the local community, which was also a benefit. And then lastly, we think it was very beneficial for Santa China on a lot of different levels. I think the marketing value that's created for us was also very strong. So a lot of benefit to it. And I also think we accomplished some of the goals that we set out in our concessional renewal, which was to bring, let's call it high-value sports, global sports. So a lot of positive things all around. I don't know, Grant, do you have any other comments or anything you'd like to add?

No, I think it covers it very well. I think it did showcase Macau in a very, very faithful light. It was great for the city to have such a, I would say, strong visitation from different countries. As you know, the government has been very keen on pushing visitors from different countries around the region, both in the rest of the world. And I think this event really highlighted the attraction of Macau, like Patrick said and I think we're proud of delivering this first set of China games for Macau and I think we got a lot of positive praise not just from the people who came from different corners of the world but also very positive feedback from people.

Okay, thank you for all that. Appreciate it.

Thank you. The next question will be from John Decree from CBRE. John, your line is live.

Hey guys, thanks for all the color and commentary so far. I wanted to ask a follow-up on one of the strategic priorities outlined in your deck development. I know you gave some comments about the UAE specifically, but curious what you're seeing around the globe, if there's anything particularly interesting right now. And I guess I'd specifically ask about Japan. You just obviously looked at that in the past as a new prime minister, I think, historically supportive of IRs. So curious if it's worth another look at Japan and anything else that might be out there right now that's garnering your attention.

Look, I think our strategy priority is to deploy capital on high growth projects. And we're always looking at those opportunities and always evaluating them to see if the returns are there with the appropriate factor of safety. And I think for us, As I said before, we're looking at the UAE, trying to observe it and follow it. Obviously, Japan was something we were very interested in in the past, although that seems unlikely. There's been talk about Thailand, which is something that we've expressed interest in in the past. So we're very patient, and we're constantly looking, and we'll see what opportunities arise. But as of right now, there's nothing left.

Thanks, Patrick. That's all for me. I appreciate it, guys.

Thank you. And the next question will be from Steve Wojcinski from Stiefel. Steve, you're lying.

So, Patrick, I apologize if I missed this in your prepared remarks. But if we think about the 150 basis point decrease in your Macau margins, you know, wondering if most of that was tied pretty much directly to your change in marketing strategy or if that was just something else.

Yeah, I think it was a combination of marketing strategy and a little bit higher cost. But I think the key thing for us is the way we get operating leverage and increased margin over time is by growing revenue. You know, you said it all along. I think there was a question earlier that Rob answered about the size of the Macau market. If you look at the Macau market today, it's growing. It's going both in the math segment and the VIP segment, which is very beneficial. I think we're very positive on the Macau market overall. The way we're going to grow EBITDA and grow margins is through revenue growth. We have a great team there, but we have a fixed cost base. So we need to leverage it. We need to get more volume.

Okay, gotcha. And then, Rob, second question, if we go back to Singapore real quick. You know, I mean, you're at the point where you're pushing almost, you know, $1,000 a night per room. And, you know, yes, look, I understand there's more room capacity coming on. Yeah, I know. I understand there's more room capacity coming online in the next couple of years, but, you know, this is probably a little bit of a higher level question, but wondering, you know, Rob, how you're thinking about room rates, not only, you know, maybe now and your ability to still take price there, but, you know, maybe how you're thinking about room rates once your additional capacity comes online.

I think it's kind of relevant, to be honest with you. Our goal is to not sell rooms, just give away people to gamble. because very honest, that's the business we're in. You can't spend the kind of money we spend in Singapore and charge, if you charge $1,000 or $2,000. Last time I checked, you're not building $8 billion hotels anywhere. This is a gambling casino, the hotel attached to it. So our goal in Singapore, every night if we can, is to give these rooms where people are high-value gaming customers who drive $3, $4, $5 billion of top-line revenue. That's the business we're over there. I don't think we can squeeze the rates higher. I think we want it to in the cash, but it's such a small offering. We're mostly a comp house today, but the real goal is to not sell any rooms in IR1 or IR2, but give them high-value gaming customers to drive that. It's like you don't make $3 billion annualized with hotels. It's just that simple. So it's a very interesting dynamic over there. We shrunk the hotel. It's working very well. It's attracting the high-value casino customers. That is the focus, not the ADR. We'd be blunt with you. I think we fail. We sell a room for $2,000, but it's a failure. They're not in the rooms business. We're in the casino hotel business, and those rooms simply are there to attract those patients to drive these ridiculously high EBITs to us.

Come visit. We'll give you a free room.

No free room.

Okay. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

Appreciate it.

Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.