Starwood Property Trust, Inc. Q1 FY2024 Earnings Call

Greetings. Welcome to Starwood Property Trust's First Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. Please note, this conference is being recorded. At this time, I'll hand the conference over to Zach Tanenbaum, Head of Investor Relations.

Thank you, operator. Good morning, and welcome to Starwood Property Trust Earnings Call. This morning, the company released its financial results for the quarter ended March 31, 2024, filed its Form 10-Q with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and posted its earnings supplement to its website. These documents are available in the Investor Relations section of the company's website at www.starwoodpropertytrust.com. Before the call begins, I would like to remind everyone that certain statements made in the course of this call are not based on historical information and may constitute forward-looking statements. These statements are based on management's current expectations and beliefs and are subject to a number of trends and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in the forward-looking statements. I refer you to the company's filings made with the SEC for a more detailed discussion of the risks and factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied in any forward-looking statements made today. The company undertakes no duty to update any forward-looking statements that may be made during the course of this call. Additionally, certain non-GAAP financial measures will be discussed on this conference call. A presentation of this information is not intended to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for the financial information presented in accordance with GAAP. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures to the most comparable measures prepared in accordance with GAAP can be accessed through our filings with the SEC at www.sec.gov. Joining me on the call today are Barry Sternlicht, the company's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Jeff DiModica, the company's President; and Rina Paniry, the company's Chief Financial Officer. With that, I'm now going to turn the call over to Rina.

Thank you, Zach, and good morning, everyone. We reported a strong quarter with distributable earnings or DE of $191.6 million or $0.59 per share. Our results were highlighted by contributions across all of our businesses with outsized performance in property from the sale of our master lease portfolio and in commercial lending from prepayment fees, which was partially offset by underperformance in our CMBS book. In all, DE includes an $0.08 net gain from these items. They also contributed to higher GAAP net income, which was $154 million or $0.48 per share. Undepreciated book value ended the quarter at $20.69 with GAAP book value at $19.85. Beginning my segment discussion this morning is Commercial and Residential Lending, which contributed DE of $205 million to the quarter or $0.63 per share. In commercial lending, repayments of $909 million outpaced fundings of $128 million on pre-existing loan commitments. Our portfolio of predominantly senior secured first mortgage loans ended the quarter with a funded balance of $15.1 billion and a weighted average risk rating of 2.9. Jeff will cover our risk rating changes in greater detail. Turning to CECL, we had no new specific reserves in the quarter and no new loan or REO impairments. Our general CECL reserve increased by $35 million to a balance of $342 million, of which 70% relates to office. This increase was driven by our selecting the most pessimistic economic outlook of seven scenarios available to us in our third-party model for our office loans. Together with our previously taken REO impairments of $172 million, these reserves represent 3.4% of our lending and REO portfolio and translate to $1.64 per share of book value. Next, I will discuss our residential lending business. Our on-balance sheet loan portfolio ended the quarter at $2.5 billion, including $880 million of agency loans. We had $45 million of par repayments during the quarter and recorded a $2 million net negative mark-to-market adjustment for GAAP purposes. This mark includes a $38 million negative mark on our loans, offset by a $36 million positive mark on our hedges, which provided $25 million of cash during the quarter. And our $435 million retained RMBS portfolio, a change in market call price assumptions contributed to a $7 million negative mark in the quarter. Next, I will discuss our Property segment, which contributed $59 million of DE or $0.18 per share to the quarter. During the quarter, we sold our master lease portfolio for $387 million. The transaction resulted in net proceeds of $188 million, a net DE gain of $37 million and a net GAAP gain of $91 million. Because the sale was completed in late February, our Q1 results include 2 months of income or $0.01 of DE from these assets. Our Florida affordable housing fund generated $14 million of DE in the quarter. Subsequent to quarter end, HUD released the new maximum rent levels, which were set 7.9% higher than last year. Certain properties were in geographies where the rent increases were capped by HUD, which resulted in 3.8% of incremental rent growth being deferred to next year. This would be in addition to any increase determined by the HUD formula in 2025. And finally, in our medical office portfolio, subsequent to quarter end, we refinanced the $600 million of outstanding debt on these assets, which was scheduled to mature in November. We entered into a new CMBS debt of $450 million and a mezzanine loan of $40 million, both with a five-year term at a blended coupon of SOFR plus 252 basis points. Turning to investing and servicing. This segment produced breakeven results in the quarter with positive contributions from our conduit and special servicing businesses, offset by a negative contribution in CMBS. In our conduit, Starwood Mortgage Capital, we completed four securitizations totaling $212 million at profits consistent with historic levels. In our special servicer, LNR, our active servicing portfolio increased from $6.6 billion to $7.2 billion, primarily due to $1.1 billion of transfers in, more than half of which were office or contained in the office component. Our named servicing portfolio ended the quarter at $96.1 billion driven by $3.7 billion in maturities, offset by new assignments of $1.1 billion. Finally, in our CMBS portfolio, as is typical for the first quarter, we received annual financial statement reporting on the assets underlying our bond holdings. One securitization in particular had three nonperforming assets out of the remaining 73 in the pool. Due to lower-than-anticipated NOI and a lower-than-anticipated appraisal for these assets, we recorded a $17 million DE impairment on the bond. Concluding my business segment discussion is our Infrastructure Lending segment, which contributed DE of $20 million or $0.06 per share to the quarter. We committed to $120 million of new loans, of which we funded $96 million and an additional $42 million on pre-existing loan commitments. Repayments totaled $210 million, bringing the portfolio to a balance of $2.5 billion at quarter end. Subsequent to quarter end, we completed our third infrastructure CLO for $400 million at a weighted average coupon of SOFR plus 218, which Jeff will discuss. And finally, this morning, I will address our liquidity and capitalization. We continue to have ample credit capacity across our business lines, ending the quarter with $9.7 billion of availability under our existing financing lines, and unencumbered assets of $4.6 billion. Our adjusted debt to undepreciated equity ratio ended the quarter at 2.3x, a decrease from 2.5x last quarter. In addition to low leverage, our current liquidity position has increased to a record $1.5 billion. This does not include liquidity that could be generated through sales of assets in our Property segment or debt capacity that we have via the unsecured and term loan B market. With that, I'll turn the call over to Jeff.

Thanks, Rina, good morning, everyone. We accessed the debt capital markets in the quarter, issuing $600 million of senior unsecured sustainability notes, leaving us with record liquidity today. This issuance was the first in our industry in over two years and was 7x oversubscribed with orders from 156 institutional investors, both records for our company. Record demand allowed us to tighten pricing by 75 basis points. And after swapping this fixed rate issuance to floating, we borrowed at a repo equivalent of SOFR plus 312 basis points, in line with pricing we achieved throughout our history despite today's high rate and spread environment. After paying down bank warehouse lines, this issuance was leverage neutral, allowing us to maintain just 2.3 turns of leverage, a two-year low for our company, and it will not affect our dividend-paying ability. Creating excess liquidity in a leverage-neutral fashion will allow us to ramp up our investment pace at the appropriate time. Market transaction volumes are picking up and our pipeline of actionable deals is as strong today as it has been in over two years. As for the macro environment, commercial real estate continues to face headwinds created by higher interest rates that have driven cap rates higher, thus causing the reserve increases you are seeing in our sector for the last year. Partially offsetting that, three-fourths of our CRE loans have interest rate caps in place, and 85% of our portfolio has embedded interest rate protection. Rates rose in the quarter since we last spoke and have now begun falling again after last week's weaker-than-expected employment number and the Fed's decision to slow the pace of quantitative tapering from $60 billion per month to $25 billion per month, which in turn will reduce treasury bond issuance by $420 billion per year. At the same time, we are seeing tailwinds in increased transaction volume and credit spread tightening, which will help our borrowers as they seek accretive refinancing alternatives. Recent issued BBB-minus CMBS credit spreads, which are a good proxy for mezzanine CRE lending, have tightened by over 300 basis points in the last six months and are back to second half of 2022 levels today. Spread tightening has allowed us to issue unsecured notes, refinance our MOB portfolio in the CMBS market, and issue our third energy infrastructure CLO all inside market expectations at much tighter spreads. We built a low leverage diversified business to withstand choppy conditions like this and to be in a position to go on offense when they create outsized opportunities, which, as I said, we expect to do in the coming quarters. With regards to our commercial lending credits, like most banks, we use a third-party model called macroeconomic advisers in computing our general CECL reserve, which we again increased in the quarter. Our equity market cap of $6 billion is nearly 2x the second-largest participant in our sector. But since we have seven other businesses, we do not have the largest CRE loan book in our sector. We run a very low leverage business model, and only 11% of our assets are on loans on U.S. offices, the asset class most disrupted since COVID due to work-from-home, higher rates, and the tightening of real estate credit conditions. That is half of what our holdings were before COVID began and a fraction of our peer set average. Despite that, we have reduced book value with the largest general CECL reserve in our sector by dollar value and the second highest by percentage, giving us cushion for potential losses that could come on assets we have not taken a specific reserve for. Our sponsors continue to support their assets in mass, and after receiving $1.3 billion of new sponsor equity commitments in 2023, we have already received an additional $483 million in 2024. Looking at our property types. Our largest property type, multifamily, which is 21% of our company's assets, has an average remaining term of 2.7 years and continues to experience year-over-year rent growth, with same-store rents up 3.4% in 2023. The sponsors for 60 of our 72 multifamily loans have committed fresh equity to their assets, including all of our 4 and 5 rated loans, and we don't foresee any issues getting paid off on the 12 that have not had to inject additional equity to date. I just mentioned office loans, our second largest property type, which comprised 11% of our company's assets. 87% of these are Class A and 77% of them do not mature until 2025 or beyond. Our third largest property type, hotels, is 8% of our assets today, and this portfolio has an average in-place debt yield of over 11%. As we have been saying since the beginning of COVID, we do not foresee refinancing issues with these hotel assets. As for risk rating changes in the quarter, while our 4-rated bucket increased with three new additions, the dollar value of our 5-rated bucket was lower this quarter, following the upgrade of a $252 million office loan in Houston. This Houston asset has seen incremental leasing activity, including the anchor tenant taking more space and extending lease terms to 2036 and is sufficiently capitalized with runway to complete important CapEx projects in securing accretive new leasing. We downgraded two smaller loans to 5 in the quarter, an $82 million mezzanine loan on an office building in Los Angeles, where the borrower has remained current, and we are working to extend the term, allowing time to complete accretive leasing, and a $52 million multifamily loan in Nashville that is in payment default and we expect to foreclose on. We will decide in the coming quarters whether to maximize value by holding and stabilizing this asset as we have in the past or sell it at or near our basis depending on the short-term direction of cap rates. We also downgraded three loans in the quarter from a 3 to a 4 risk rating. The first two are assets, a $99 million loan in Atlanta and a $92 million loan outside Minneapolis. We are working to close preferred equity investments on both that will carry the assets for two years, giving our borrowers time to find accretive leasing that would create escape velocity should rates continue lower and markets continue to repair. The final downgrade to 4 is a $45 million multifamily loan in Phoenix that is in payment default. This asset has been poorly managed, allowing occupancy to drop into the 70%. Should we take the asset back, our manager Starwood Capital Group is one of the nation's largest owners of multifamily assets, and we hope bringing in new management and our expertise will allow us to bring this asset back to a market occupancy of 90%, after which we will decide whether to hold or sell the asset. In our Property segment, Rina mentioned our affordable housing and medical office portfolios and that we sold our master lease portfolio in the quarter. We originally purchased the 23 asset master lease portfolio in 2017 for $556 million. We sold 7 of the 23 assets in 2018 for $235 million and a DE gain of $23 million. This quarter, we sold the 16 remaining assets for $387 million and a DE gain of $37 million. We successfully doubled our equity investment on this sale over 7 years, producing an IRR of 15.7% for shareholders. These assets had 25-year leases at origination and the lease term had fallen to 18 years. Our plan was to sell these with more than 10 years of lease term remaining and given retail sales have slowed since their early COVID increase, we thought this was an opportune time to take our gains and further reduce our company's leverage while looking for opportunities to reinvest elsewhere. In energy infrastructure lending, Rina mentioned we completed our third CLO. We now have 56% of our debt in this segment on term, nonrecourse, non-mark-to-market financing, which further insulates our company's cash position. This business continues to benefit from lower lending competition and higher energy needs driven by AI and EVs. A significant portion of our holdings are on loans that have actively quoted trading markets, and prices on those loans are up almost 4 points in the last 12 months alone. LTVs on these assets continued to fall due to increased asset profitability and structural deleveraging over the life of these loans. In the quarter, we committed to $120 million of new loans at an IRR of approximately 20%, and our post-2018 acquisition portfolio now makes up over 90% of our portfolio with expected levered returns in the high teens. We expect to continue to take advantage of these tailwinds by making outsized investments in this highly return accretive segment going forward. With that, I will turn the call to Barry.

Thanks, Jeff. I want to thank Rina and Zach, and good morning, everyone. I'm on the West Coast, so dialing in remotely, and to the team's call. I'm not at the Milken complex. I would say that the question on everyone's mind is where are we in the cycle? Are we bottoming? Do we think it's going to get better? When will it get better? I think it's pretty clear that most every property type, things are okay at the property level. And so it's really a question of how do you finance yourself? This is a balance sheet crisis in the United States, not a property level crisis. Most of the asset classes where there are some decelerating rents in multifamily. Most everyone sophisticated in real estate knows that the supply of new apartments is going to fall precipitously as soon as this wave completes more or less, middle of 25%. And then rents should reaccelerate. So you are seeing buyers come out of the woods, particularly since the credit markets, the CMBS markets are wide open. Even diversified portfolios are getting done in the CBS market spreads are in. So the markets are repairing themselves. And even the tone of the banks, at least the large banks, is getting slightly better as they grasp how to handle what happened and who is going to do what with what. It is remarkable how many sponsors are coming in and working to fix their capital stacks, buying caps, trying to push their loans into coverage ratios. And I think there's a lot of dry powder on the sidelines, and you've recently seen Blackstone's large take-private of a multifamily, two of them. It's like one in Canada, one in the U.S. There are transactions taking place in the private sector. And we are definitely moving with caution, ensuring we handle our capital wisely. We are in an enviable position, I think, both with our footprint here in Europe, where there's more activity, but also with our liquidity being where it is. We entered this environment with significant dry powder, giving us the opportunity to restructure, modify, take back, and do everything we can to maximize value for our shareholders. We are unique in our sector in that we have always been in equity REIT. We've always owned 17,000 affordable housing units that continue to generate significant rent growth and assured rent growth next year because we could not take all the rent growth, as Rina pointed out this year. So affordable housing is the one sector of real estate you can count on for full occupancy and rental growth for the foreseeable future, which is material to us and will help us. The other thing that you may not know is there has been significant margin relief in our cost structures, particularly for insurance, and we expect our insurance to be down year-over-year. As we budgeted the year, we do not expect that. We thought it would be up as it has been most every year, but that should help increase margins and improve or support the value and the gains that we already have in our affordable housing book. I do like to continue to look at our multiple cylinders to explore new business lines, which may not be as correlated to the large loan real estate book. The energy infrastructure lending group is just such a thing, targeting returns on the paper of about 20%. We've invested and we will go deeper there to accelerate that investment. We are also looking at other opportunities in response to stress we see in other companies in our sector and smaller companies that probably will have some issues. I think we will find opportunities to be created on the capital market side and continue looking at various avenues both here and abroad to grow our enterprise. Our goal, of course, is to achieve an investment grade position which means a perpetual flywheel of capital in our industry. With the pullback of the banks, we would like to figure out how to be the dominant player in this space, similar to what the large private credit firms have done in the corporate space. This is our job to execute there. I think our smaller loan business, the recent hires in our Starwood Solutions business are just beginning to take root, and we hope they become significant contributors to higher return on equity for our shareholders and provide a dependable income stream supporting our dividend. It is such an unusual situation with rates this high; sitting on cash is not nearly as punitive as it used to be. We just pay off our lines and then we can re-access them when needed. So we're paying off lines that are written off of SOFR, which is at 5.3, and spreads that are at least 200 over. So you're talking about paying off 7% or 8% debt is not a bad outcome in the broader context. What's more detrimental are non-accruing REO assets we have on our balance sheet, but we're blessed to be able to support our dividend without having them accruing even though they are recovering. We will continue to work through the portfolio and bring that capital back into an earnings position as soon as it is prudent to do so. The only other thing I'd mention is I think the Fed has the wrong toolkit for this economy, and the faster they realize that, the better off the banking system and the real estate complex will be. It's not really working effectively. Interest rates at this level have not slowed job growth in many industries, nor have they inhibited tech innovation. Recent major announcements by companies in construction and data centers show continued investment and growth. We are turning on the infrastructure bill, and the government is not seeing construction job losses, which is normally expected with a 500 basis point increase in rates. One things you can see in time is an acceleration of the same jobs in health care, education, and government, which have added 3.1 million jobs since the Fed started raising rates in May of ‘22. So I would say we want to take advantage of the data center space and probably weigh into some lending opportunities where, as a private firm, we’re the fourth largest data center player in the country. We are quite active on the build side: we now have 50 people focused on data centers. This could be a very interesting area for us in the future. With that, I again want to thank the team. It's hands-on combat now; it's not a time to be idle. The teams are actively working with borrowers and managing our entire investment portfolio to maximize returns for shareholders. So we are feeling pretty good in a challenging environment. I think we are very confident in our ability to weather the storm and emerge as a leader in our sector. Thanks, everyone. We'll take questions.

The first question comes from Jade Rahmani with KBW.

This quarter has been a tale of two cities. While there's been ongoing credit migration, we've seen some positive surprises from the banks in terms of there being no big shoes to drop. At the same time, with the commercial mortgage REITs, there has been pronounced deterioration and broad recognition of losses. Starwood clearly is performing much better than peers. So I'm curious what you think explains the discrepancy—is it the nature of the transitional assets or, more so, as you alluded to in your comments, the liabilities? If it's the liabilities, that should open up opportunities for Starwood to be a net acquirer of weaker players that have very constrained capital structures.

Barry, do you want me to start? I will start. Jade, we did foreclose on some things early. We've been advantaged by having a portfolio that's set up to perform better in this market. I hate to keep repeating it, but it's hard to hide from the fact that with 11% U.S. office and the lowest leverage at 2.3 turns, you would expect better outcomes. The difficult thing for this market, I think, and it goes for the banks and nonbanks and all of us is looking at forward SOFR. If you go back to May of last year, forward SOFR in 2025 was going to be 2.6%. If you went back to October of last year, it was 4.6%. If you went to January of this year, it was back into the 3.5% area. Well, today, SOFR is expected in the middle of '25 to be 4.40% and a year later to be 4%. So we don't anticipate going below 4% for 2 years. We thought we would be doing that a year from now by over 100 basis points. So I would say these reserve builds with SOFR having moved significantly higher with the Fed being priced out creates difficulties for transitional floating-rate loans. To the extent the Fed continues to get priced out of the market, I think you'll continue to see reserves build. And to the extent that we flatten here and take some advantage from the weaker numbers we've seen recently, this QT move last week is good. We're seeing rates go lower today. I think these reserves will stop building. But it's difficult to say. On the bright side, I think many of us have the staying power. Hopefully, our peers will have the same staying power to weather the next couple of years. We have tremendous liquidity.

I'll be a little more optimistic about that. It's not fun. And when you have nothing to do, you can't issue stock, you're getting repo calls. But it's not a matter of voluntary mergers; it could be more because they have to merge with a stronger balance sheet. One thing that’s interesting about the market is, yes, you've seen fairly sophisticated borrowers take hits in their book. Almost everyone in the sector has experienced some form of loss or write-down. If you think of the regional banks that have $1 trillion of loans and are maybe levered 8:1, you wonder why they are not experiencing larger losses, especially in their office portfolios. And it wouldn’t take much to wipe out an 8:1 levered book and the equity of that book. They typically have large exposures to smaller, regional properties and tertiary markets that don’t have the liquidity of the CMBS execution. So you continue to scratch your head at the environment. I do think it's an incredible opportunity for us. If we are fortunate enough to raise additional capital in this market, we can deploy it for extraordinary returns. We continue to stay active with our private credit vehicles to keep our teams busy, while being prudent about our decisions. We have the liquidity to manage this precarious environment, remaining with $1.5 billion in accessible funds. So I am not of the camp that rates are going up. I believe the Fed knows the regional banking system and the broader impact on commercial assets could create significant challenges. The central bank must find a pragmatic approach to support stability in the financial system. The second element they have to consider is the deficit dilemma. It's not just a free lunch. Since creating such massive deficits, the strain on fiscal budgets will be heavily weighed against rising rates. The increasing cost of servicing this debt burden dramatically impacts costs for the federal government, which cannot afford to raise rates without consequences. They will likely lower rates in Europe in June, putting pressure on the dollar. That would render U.S. exports less competitive. The Fed honestly cannot afford to ignore these growing pressures without risking further economic instability. They need to be very strategic in their approach, so it’s something I am watching closely.

It's a really important question regarding migration patterns of office loans from a 3 to a 4 rating. Clearly, the SOFR move we discussed is putting stress on people. The continued ability and desire for borrowers to inject capital into their projects may oscillate, especially in this refined economic environment. While we've seen borrowers putting up capital in the past, the trends might shift if market conditions remain challenging. We had a few office spaces migrate from a 3 to a 4 this quarter, and I anticipate that could keep happening, depending on how the trajectory of forward SOFR evolves.

Can you talk a little bit about the outlook of migration of office loans from 3 to 4-rated? Last quarter, there was a significant increase. You've got a few this quarter. Are we just looking at a handful of loans each quarter? Are we getting closer to the end? And what's driving those movements this quarter?

We're not making any concessions at this time. If the economic environment remains and SOFR holds its course, I anticipate that type of migration is to be expected in a $20 billion balance sheet. It's part of normal course, but SOFR certainly took a step backward this quarter and we are remaining conservative given the prospect that we will need to commit more capital to support whatever assets might require it.

Got it. And on the appetite for residential mortgage credit portfolio, it's sort of flat. If you think about non-QM, I mean, credit is still pretty good. Are you seeing opportunities or just not a ton of deals out there?

It's interesting. We have discussions about whether to expand our investments in the residential credit space. Credit has tightened considerably across markets, including on the residential side. There is still action in AAA securitizations, but the spreads have become problematic for us. We are currently achieving notably higher coupon rates on non-QM assets, and if we can securitize at the right spreads, that aligns with our risk appetite and return profile—especially given the historical repayments on those could shift with evolving rate environments. The other thing to note is we’ve opted to keep our residential portfolio flat largely because the carry is high, and we have maintained our hedge. Our liquidity positions allow us to hold off of going on the offensive just yet. Overall, we are seeing some credit disruption in the residential sector but nothing profound to be markedly concerned about. Most of our book was written during better home price appreciation periods, so we stand healthy against emerging credit issues.

Just one thing. I'm curious behaviorally with a significant change in sentiment in terms of rate outlook starting in January—higher for longer. Have you observed any sort of behavioral capitulation among borrowers who perhaps expected rates to ease and now reevaluate their situations? Have you seen borrowers start to throw in the towel more than before?

Yes, it’s a great question. While the environment has shifted dramatically, borrowers aiming to refinance or invest will likely pause as they assess costs. Fluctuations in caps and variable rates can skew decisions, particularly on the multifamily side, but we are seeing continued commitment from most borrowers of support loans. The ones in the four category tend to be showing stress in cash flow management and might not continue to support them as we enter this difficult phase.

We don’t have to worry about volatility; I emphasize the strength of the service economy once again. While interest rates affect a portion of the economy, there are sectors like healthcare and education that continue to thrive and contribute positively to job growth. However, there are signs of emerging weaknesses that we can't ignore, yet we also have the resilience to navigate such choppy waters. This will be synonymous as we continue analysis around the capital markets and monitor the supply of willing borrowers for upcoming opportunities.

Next question is from Doug Harter with UBS.

I hope you could talk a little bit more about the refinance on the medical office building. It looks like your debt against the property came down a little over $100 million. Any thoughts on that? Does that imply anything about the value of the properties?

Less about the value and more about service coverage but go ahead.

Yes, Barry. The properties continue to perform decently, yet they are operating against higher cap rates, thus affecting their valuations. It’s not an income issue but a reflection of adjusted capital structures with the expectations set by the agencies we work with. While we did inject over $100 million of equity into the refinancing, we're seeing a decent cash return, particularly with the terms we managed to secure.

We could have taken more leverage, but those higher portions were dilutive to the dividend. It wasn't so much of a cap rate issue but rather getting debt service coverage attractive enough for our current structure. We wanted to optimize our position without compromising on overall debt strategy. With that, thank you everyone. We appreciate your participation in today's call. Good luck to you, and we hope your loans pay off. Take care.

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and thank you for your participation.