My name is Dylan Cardin. I am the analyst here that covers ThredUp. With me I have James Reinhart, CEO, Sean Sobers, CFO of the company. And, yeah. Oh, there are disclosures that are relevant to this conversation on our website. We still can't get that language exactly right, but that gets you the thrust of it. So, thank you. Yeah, thanks for having us. And, you know, I know we're going to kind of make this more interactive, but there is a steeper learning curve, I think, for resale, for your business in particular. can you just kind of give us the elevator pitch with a slant towards your competitive advantages
and sure the industry more broadly yeah so thredUP is a marketplace for secondhand clothing uh women's and kids um companies about 15 years old uh the core insight was that we all have closets full of clothes that we don't wear and um we thought that there was an innovative way to sort of you know figure out how to reprocess clothing at some scale and make that available for consumers and so we started as an asset light business it was just connecting buyers and sellers but i think the core insight was if you could really lock down the supply chain you could really change the dynamics in the marketplace and so in 2012 we started building infrastructure to process clothing at some significant scale and the competitive advantage that we were starting to develop was this unique supply chain for taking back you know vast amounts of clothing So the way the business works is we send you a prepaid bag or you can use a box that you have. You send us back all your clothing. We process it. We put it online. And it's effectively now the world's largest online thrift store. So we invented this supply chain that was built purposely for that. Along the way, what we realized is there's no barcodes on clothing. And so to do this at some scale and efficiently, you need to build a data set. And so we started cataloging, you know, vast amounts of data, 35,000 brands, 100 categories, you know, all in service of building this price arbitrage model. So that's kind of the second pillar. And then the third piece was building a consumer brand, right, that connects buyers and sellers, you know, drives high liquidity. So we often talk about building a unique supply chain, building a data business, building a marketplace. Each one of those is actually quite hard in and of themselves. And the power in the ThreadUp business is we built all three. And so I think what you see today now is ThredUp as a managed marketplace. We're really the only game in town for goods at this price point. And we're continuing to invest in the business, and it's been good.
I'll jump a question then, because you've spoken to investing $400 million, $500 million, and your market cap has been $400 million or $500 million. yeah and so i'm just curious you know how you think about the value you've created as it relates to emote yeah right as far as what is replicable what is proprietary and and what it really allows
you to do that others can't yeah i mean i think if you go back to you know when we started the business you know there was no playbook for this so you know the ebay's of the world right have been around you know it's been around 30 years now at this point right it's connecting buyers and sellers, they take a transaction fee, like that's sort of, you know, how it works, and, but there's no playbook for managed resale, right, of like what does it look like to take all the all the product back, and so I think the first probably five or six years of the business it was can this work, you know, and I think it was a classic R&D experiment of can you build infrastructure, or can you take, you know, hundreds of millions of pieces of clothing, right, and turn this into an economic engine. And so it really wasn't until honestly, 2020 was probably when we really when we built out and started to build out Atlanta, that you were able to do this at like sufficient scale. So I think the first like, 70 years was like, Can you do this on the internet? Right. And I think people like have sort of sometimes lose the plot on that of like, we actually spent a lot of years figuring this out, because it's so darn hard. And now we figured it out. And we have an economic engine and it's nearly impossible now to compete with thredUP right like it's it's not truly impossible right i mean but yeah close to half a billion dollars of capital investment consumer brand software like and there's no real great vector that can be with us it's like you know if you think about the classic ways that somebody would come in and try and compete with thredUP it's like oh we're gonna offer a better selection it's like no we have better selection we're gonna offer lower prices nope we've got tremendous we're gonna we're gonna compete on logistics and speed like nope like well we're going to be with a great brand it's like right and so you kind of run on the list and so um i think what people often tend to miss in this is just how defensible uh this business is that we've built and so and now we have an economic engine that's free cash flow positive you know business grew 20 last year and so i think the building box are there for this to be like you know quite quite an exceptional business over time yeah dylan
And I'd probably add two things that, you know, the $400 million to $500 million that we invested, we have now infrastructure to support a business that can easily do $500 million in revenue, right? We did $310 million last year. So I think that's all the investments. We have some leveraging that we have in the infrastructure that we've already built. And then I think what's happened from an economic standpoint on unit economics is it was around IPO time, our contribution margin was around 27%. And today it's in like the mid-40s. So we've been able to show that you can do this, not only do it online, but you can do it online profitably, which I think was a big question for a long time. And I think last year was the year where we were able to be like, you can look to the bottom line, see positive cash flow, you can see positive earnings.
It's also like not, I think, like the other thing, I think the misnomer is like, it's not a fashion company. It's not a brand, right? And so it's a logistics infrastructure company. And we compete at this layer. so you have to believe like if you don't believe resale is going to continue to grow you have to believe we're not going to wear clothes in the future right you're still my line right um yeah and so like you know or like somehow people like turn around one day and they're like nah like i'm only gonna buy new and there's like nothing to suggest that that is like the arc that we're on um so i love i love doing the hard work at the infrastructure layer well that's
exactly how i see it so yeah my line is typically no no one wants to talk to a consumer apparel analyst but i say i know nothing about you but i know tomorrow you're not going to go outside naked that's my relevance our relevance but no i mean i view resale as one of the major structural shifts in apparel yeah we've moved online we're now half online right yeah i mean off price has had a fantastic run as far as value is concerned it makes sense to me that you are inheriting sort of a certain off price vector of good value dynamic shopping experience yes and so tends to be that there need to be catalysts for that type of a shift I would call your business and the investments you've made a catalyst you know I know you do kind of a certain amount of like industry analysis yeah just how do you where are you now as far as like a closet industry penetration rate resale in total how do the dynamics play out between kind of mature goodwills ebay's you know how do you see this sort of landscape shift yeah I mean you know the
resale we publish a resale report every year you can find it at startup.com backslash resale and it talks about the growth of the industry you know we expect it to be 80 billion or so by the end of the uh the end of the decade um it's growing four or five times depending on what four or five times faster than traditional retail um and every what's so interesting about the data is every generation of young people is adopting resale at higher rates and so when you kind of extrapolate those curves out yeah i mean you know you either have to believe that all these habits that people develop when they're younger they just like literally like wake up one day and they're like never mind right or the penetration of resale in people's closets like if you just kind of think about this stack bar it's going to be like pretty substantial uh over time and so so i think i used to think maybe the resale estimates for 2030 were high i think they might be they might be high for 2030 but they're way too low for 2040. yeah and you know i just think this will be the fabric of what people do you know over time and i think off price is a great place to point to you know off price tj maxx ross brilliant and these guys got started in the early 80s like 70s right right like the businesses didn't hit these inflection points until the financial crisis in 2008 because they're building stores they're figuring out the merchandising assortment they're you know they're waiting for this customer shift and now i mean these companies are massive right uh and so i I think resale is, you know, there's not, it's not an exact match, right? But I think it has some of the same similarities for how consumers will adopt this over time.
Well, they were shut out of inventory for a long time. They were totally, I think that's a similar therapy. They're stigmatized from a brand standpoint, right? All but Ralph Lauren. And so I think, you know, to the de-stigmatization of resale, but it does speak to inventory availability. Yeah, yeah. The bottleneck access to goods. I mean, it was sort of notable in your last earnings that you're now going after sellers yeah right kind of speak to unlocking yeah i mean i think
you know over the past you know 10 years we've never spent a single dollar acquiring sellers we've just had you know just an inordinate amount of stuff and um and so we've been focused on the buyer side i think what has changed now in the last probably years we launched our premium kits the beginning of 25 and we saw real real opportunities so the premium kit is um so our basic kits is you would send us all of your stuff there's a basic service fee we pay you out we did a bunch of testing in 2024 that suggested that consumers and again we just do women's and kids so for the men in the audience think of your wives your children your sisters and your mothers that they wanted a an experience where they had more control right more control over the product experience so if i sent you a bag i'd have opportunities to reclaim items more efficiently i can control pricing right i could i could have a longer consignment window so effectively think about it as like i'm willing to pay for a little bit more control that business like was like up into the red like out of the gate um it went from zero percent of our mix to like single digits and then you know low double digits in just a few quarters um and so that indicated to us that there was like opportunity to capture more of that market and what we see in the broader market with you know real real as an example you know they're trying to continue to elevate the brand which i which i totally understand and probably moving away from the pocket of inventory that we want yeah um and so we're going out to acquire sellers not for the core business you know core basic business for but for that premium mix um and i think those prices the items on those or the prices of those items are double what we see in the business um and then i'll just take it a step further we launched direct listings about which maybe you will ask about but just to give the continuum as part of the learning with the launch of our premium product customers said this is great but you know there's also a few items that i don't send you guys like i want total control over those items i want to sell them on ebay i want to sell them on poshmark or something it's like so you have these two platforms like isn't that kind of annoying and everyone's like yeah but that's just that's the industry that's the industry so we launched our direct listings business as an as a direct like reflection of that which is okay send us your basic stuff but if you want um send us your premium stuff if you want and if you've got those few special items that reformation dress or whatever it is you want total control over that item you can list it yourself and so you know the through line all of this to wrap up to where you started is we want to dominate the supply chain right the whole vision of the business from way back in the day was you know controlling um supply in this market and i think we're making the steps you know each year to do that and i think if you kind of roll the roll the book forward three or four years i think you'll see that like we can dominate like a large swath of this what does that look like buying supply
i mean i get sort of what's yeah what's really strange about it too to me and to you i think as well is that you start charging fees yeah you start getting more better inventory and real real speaks to the their biggest competitor is laziness human laziness agreed I agree with that so you know what is it between turning your business into a
service yeah that's sort of unlocked deeper pockets I think like somehow people the psychology of like you know when when when something is free we don't value it right you know and so I think you're in this position that when you start to charge a fee you're really oh this is actually like saving me a bunch of time and it's doing good in the world and so yeah there's a bunch of economic research right around this value equation um and so yeah by charging it we improved yeah we started we started charging fees we got better stuff more stuff faster right it's just like you know we had one of those three we thought would happen right um and uh but i think the acquiring premium sellers i think just it just makes sense to go out there and like help people understand what we do with the value proposition is and so the whole strategy is just hey we're here to provide like a compelling service for you because it's crazy like as we feel like the business been around for you know a decade um it's still only like low double digit penetration yeah right i mean there's still so it's a it's a it's a good and growing business with huge upside right um and you got millions of college graduates every year right who become like another like big opportunity for us Taking chairman who?
Everyone always punches on the department stores.
So get that one out of the way. I know I can't even make fun of the mall anymore because malls are back. Yeah, that's true. I think it is generally taking money away from just department stores. But you still have 15% of the industry. Yeah. I mean, there's still a lot of product out there, but I think you're seeing, I think, off-price and resale just continue to eat up some of that.
Is there a point where there's competes more directly with off-price?
You know, when we survey customers still, like, I think they are shopping at off-price, they're shopping at ThredUP. What everybody's looking for is a great deal, right? And I think the thing that off-price provides you is an in-store experience. And the thing that ThredUP provides you is not an in-store experience, right? One you can do during your day and one you can do at night. And I think there's nice segmentation there.
It's probably best not to compete directly with TJX, too. You mentioned peer-to-peer. let's go i mean just sort of it would make sense that that would increase obviously supply but maybe stickiness cross selling between buyers i mean just any metrics you can share about what
that has done for the platform yeah i mean look it's it's very early right um on direct listings and we've done we've been really methodical like because it's not like something where it's open to everyone it's not open everyone it'll be open everyone at some point soon um but uh i've been really focused on the product experience for customers so i don't want to scale anything that doesn't feel like it's meaningfully better than than what's out there and but we've been watching the cohort data and like it's good right and so in terms of in terms of like repeat usage of sellers and you know as a founder like cohort data cohort data is my jam and so you know i I'm really looking at those early curves, and it suggests that people, once they start using it, they really like it. And so we're gonna start to roll it out to more sellers, and again, I think it's sort of fitting the thesis of, we wanna be a one-stop shop for all your selling needs.
Dylan, as you walk through the offerings that we have, we have the standard offering, we talked about the premium offering, and then the peer-to-peer direct listings. I think it's good to understand where ASPs are in that model, because the standard offering is around $25, $27. dollars you go to the premium offering james already mentioned is about double and then if you go to what we're seeing in direct listings it's something like 4x the standard start there's a little nuance that's interesting it's 4x listed and it sells for 3x yeah kind of goes to the point of when when you do your own work you overvalue your close prices so but it still sells at 3x
which is kind of an interesting yeah so it's like yeah just to give you math it's like you know call it 25 bucks 50 bucks 75 bucks yeah right so to me that is like like a well it's like a disciplined offering right for what people are trying to do you know you know if all the direct listings were 25 bucks wouldn't matter i'm like oh what's the point of that right so could be my wife into this
user experience yeah user experience uh i want to this is actually one of the only companies i feel comfortable talking about ai with or about um and so and there's lots of different ways to kind of cut this you know you're let's start with systems you mentioned yeah you know some of the i think it'd be helpful to like what have you like what are the real problems that you've solved for right in that kind of 400 500 million investment um and where are there sort of tweaks you know you mentioned that you can kind of ramp into the infrastructure that you've built but what's still available and how is sort of the new technology without using buzzwords kind of helped
in that yeah i mean just to take you back i think um we were very early in this like ai adoption and moment so we we did you know there's a lot of you know there's some restructurings out there people right tech companies like we did that in march of 24 so um so two years more than two years ago we saw the promise of the technology and restructure the organization to be to be ai first um but and you know i've been very public about saying that i think threat of disproportionately benefits from these ai investments relative to others because of the nature of the problem we're trying to solve yeah right which is this long tail skew you don't know what's coming you need to attribute items in dynamic ways and so the way that we like have thought about the problem is number one is just rebuilding the search infrastructure so at the end of the day if you're going to process you know this year we'll put online i don't know 25 30 million items something like that if you're going to put on on that number of items attributing it so people can find what they want is critical so we used to add call it 10 10 attributes to an item um so that it could be searchable now we had like over 100 and that's just using an ai sort of um open ai back end and some stuff that we've built that allows us to sort of tag those items therefore what the ai can do what the what this can do is like tag stuff in ways that you would never like imagine an item being tagged and so which is all image based it's all image based like it's like we're in chicago right so it's like you know let's say we're getting a bunch of stuff for like the bears in right and we've got operators and we've got some basic visual stuff that's like tagging the logo for the chicago bears we don't catch everything right the image search can now tag everything exactly the way you would want but then also when a customer is now searching for you know bear stuff they see some stuff and then they're like the technology is good enough to be like maybe they're shopping for cub stuff maybe they're shopping for white sock stuff it's spring in chicago what else and like the the the way that the technology now can pivot what you might be looking for is vastly superior to what old algorithmic work could do yeah and so it's rapidly changing how the consumer shops um and it's all built on its ability to tag and drive inference so that's kind of one and then the second piece is in our distribution centers just improving like imagery measurement just everything about how we process items um has been like exceptionally um much faster than i thought and so we're lowering our inbound costs our outbound costs improving the quality of our imagery um and so but think about these as like two foundational things and now we're just building on top so we've rebuilt this search thing and now we're just layering products you know one after another on top of it so that's pretty
exciting so then sean as you think about the you know the contribution margin per unit I mean, you haven't put a target out there, but it seems that you kind of continue to push that up.
Yeah, no, I mean, it should improve across the board. You think about the back-end infrastructure, James, talking about the AI help is, you know, when I first started through up seven years ago, there was a person that opened the bag and looked to see, was it okay, the item? Then there was another person that put in the six to ten items.
Those people don't exist anymore. The attributes, yeah.
Yeah, so they don't.
Which were the only things you could search on. Yeah, the only things you could search. Size, color, type of item.
Yeah, so a lot of times you would search and you'd come back with nothing. And we had it. So I think that the AI is one of the best things that's done from the search perspective is now you can find whatever it is you're looking for. It's rare you're going to get a response that isn't, you know, a thousand items. So it's something that will drive automation at the DC. It'll drive engagement at the front end. It'll improve the financials across the board. So it's definitely a game changer.
I think the thing that I'm also, like, really focusing on, though, it's very easy, I think, for all of us in the room to see how AI can reduce costs. like it's very clear like what what um it can take out of the p l in fact we did a we had a leadership off site last week with about 30 vps together one of the questions i asked them was what percent of your team's current workflows are likely to be automated by ai in the next couple of years the average was 55 wow so there's no question the cost leverage right that this is going to provide i think the harder challenge for founders and product companies is how is it going to meaningfully change the customer experience, right? Because, and I think we're spending, I'm spending all of my energy thinking about how does this technology really delight buyers and sellers over time? So for sellers, it might be like, you know, instant recognition of direct listing items, right? It might be voice, like we're working on a glasses app, right? So if you believe people eventually will wear Warby's glasses or, you know, the rave, right? Like, and you just have glasses on in your closet and you're just like picking up clothing and we're just there's a camera running attack right so stuff like that where i think that is the most exciting thing because not only then will you combine the cost savings but you'll combine real customer delight and i think it'll feel like magic like the movies and that'll be like a hey you could sell this for x amount kind of thing yeah yeah or there's just like something running in the background that's always um giving you um you know style advice it's plugged into your calendar right there's a lot of these ways that can integrate um to help you make your life better and I think secondhand can do that in ways because we sell so many brands we can do outfitting in ways that it's harder for a traditional merchant
and then on the logistics side of it too because then can you bypass the DC I mean I guess because you you're famous for your kind of the conveyor belt yeah yeah right and then some of the conversations now going to do stored in a more convenient way I mean it's where are those efficiencies in the model
photography's always been a bottleneck you know I mean there's there's lots of efficiencies we do everything on hanger there's lots of conversations do we need to do anything on hanger anymore right you can change can you get because you can get more automation and robotic without the hanger so there's there's opportunities there I think photography is is something it takes a lot of time you know you take the item out you put it on the hanger it goes to photography it gets put on a mannequin the picture gets taken he's taken off mannequin puts put back on a hanger what if we didn't have to take photographer take that type of photo can we take a lay flat could AI then simulate it on a mannequin if you do that it's I mean that's probably like a third of inbound processing from the time we open the bag huge so I think there's lots of opportunities there and I think we've done we've messed around with AI imagery already but we were putting them on AI models like fake humans we're talking about putting on a mannequin that's way easier now how do you do it in a way that it makes sure it flows and drapes the right way it's I think it's very
possible but i'm not the tech guy yeah and again like i think it just speaks to like this infrastructure layer right because like we're just improving the processing costs and the throughput but at the end of the day like you have to have the infrastructure to bring all the stuff in right and so i think that again it's i think what people kind of miss is like that we're improving all the efficiencies in the in the distribution center but we still play it the most important
layer yeah but i think you tie it into like where are we today we're selling items that are 25 to $28 ASP and we have a contribution margin in the mid 40s so doing all this stuff is gonna make that better but I think it's really important to understand it's the these aren't high-value items and we have lots of room from a contribution margin perspective they're lower value items and we've been able to crack the code to be profitable on a $25 I'm making it up
that it was the low 40s a couple years ago contribution yeah it was yeah like 42 ish yep i'm gonna read into that 45 ish you remember numbers what about on off the record right yeah right you're not public or anything what are we doing on time okay um on the marketing side you know i think similarly there's some sort of powerful engagement tools we can talk about agentic only in that i think there's sort of a there there here as well yeah um yeah open-ended
for now yeah i mean i think like on the marketing side i think um we have been you know we've sort of once we got rid of the european business end of 24 we were sort of all in in 25 um in two areas one inbound processing but great quality and then um investments in marketing i think the mix i think was more google um we said sort of publicly last time we're switching uh to more meta and pinterest which i think are proving to have higher ltvs this apparently hit google's radar since they called us they're like wait a minute um and so i had another company actually say i'm surprised that they said that publicly yeah I thought you were probably too
small to be on the radar but I guess apparently not yeah but they called with
that can be a problem no they called with a how can we make this yeah they sort of acknowledged like yeah it was it was a very good partnership conversation right it was like cancel your cable and they yeah and they sold us DirecTV but they but so I think we're like continuing to evolve the mix it's been very bottom of the funnel but we know like we need to be more mid-funnel more top of mind for customers so i think we've been doing stuff i think that's elevating the brand we need to build the brand which is what a lot of dtc companies yeah exactly and so you know we did a big rebrand at the end of last year we're sort of leveraging that we actually just did our first pop-up in a while in new york city this past weekend for wedding season and like the line was two blocks long right in soho like it was a really it was like a home run event um and so i think there's going to be opportunities you'll see over the next year more activations things like that that they do more storytelling now that we've built like the foundation for direct response because i think you gotta have both yeah right and companies that build brand and then they have no engine like those things flame out right you spend a dollar to make it yeah and so uh so i think but we're well positioned i think for what the next few years look like um there's three
things i kind of want to touch on one macro yeah you kind of mentioned on your last call that you're seeing some sort of slippage in aov and yeah conversion albeit sequentially not year over year correct um so just sort of state of the consumer your consumer um yeah yeah i mean i
think that look we i think the mistake we made on the call was that we said hey um prices were off you know three percent conversion rate was off five percent what we failed to say is they're still way up year over year and end up sequentially and so uh but what we wanted the reason why we wanted to say that is i just wanted to point out that like not everything is peachy out there and And so we wanted to acknowledge that there is there are segments of the consumer that, you know, are struggling more, you know, and it felt valued to have, you know, a bunch of companies then come out after us and be like, yeah, it's not all peachy. Right. Whether it's Gap. Right. Or it's Walmart. And so. So I do think you just have to acknowledge that. And I think we are more resistant to it than ever. But I I'd be lying if I didn't say we don't have some segment of customers that are, you know, really struggling with gas prices. and so so that's just we wanted to acknowledge that but the business
continues to be resilient and sorry yeah better than it was call it 21 22
something that you're cut oh for sure for sure yeah I mean back in 22 what's
that what was that what's it 70 yeah 70% of our customers in 22 had household incomes below a hundred thousand and now it's the reverse of that so 70% of our customers have household incomes above 100 as you can prove the quality
of the inventory yes yeah you basically had to like really shift the customer demand and customer supply up in 22 and we did that i think very successfully and so we're benefiting from that now but there's still some segment of customers that have some pressure
yeah and the other thing i want to make sure we touched on is just the how you're balancing growth with profitability which are now both important right yeah you've got a yo-yo between that and it seems like you're kind of picking a low double digit threshold in which you're able to still show kind of simple improvement per year is that kind of the right way to think about is
that the baseline? Yeah, I know. I think we're talking like teens growth with 150 basis points of expansion and EBITDA. Think about that for the not too distant future. Like we're going to go that way for a while with our goal to exceed that. And I just really like setting people's expectation where we're headed. And I think, you know, we grew 20% last year, so we have the
opportunity to do better than that. And so that, and that allows you to keep investing in marketing, keep investing in processing, keep investing. Yeah. Yeah. All the leverage, I think the 150
vips a year you know a bunch of that's sgna um you know i don't think we need i i i don't think it's like i don't think it's crazy to imagine setting aside credit card fees which are in sgna to have sgna be flat over the next three four or five years wow and so you can really leverage that and then you know in our op and t you know product and technology line um there'll be some give and take because you know well engineers will to do more but they'll also use more tokens and you know and so i think that'll leverage you know but i don't think immediately and then improving the contribution margin being kind of yeah yeah exactly um and so uh so i think we we feel pretty good about like what the engine looks like and um just gotta execute awesome i really hope
there's not but there might be no there's not but agentic commerce okay it's such a huge shift change in consumer behavior that you know it's not going to be the next two or five years it's going to be next 10 to 20 years sure how are you positioned for that and it would make sense that with all the inventory all the skews you have that if there's a crawler out there on the web you're sort of uniquely positioned yeah it's brand agnostic so just what's the what's the
yeah who has who is using agents to shop yeah anyone anybody has anybody built a proper agent like in co-work so you gotta ask this question every year because when we come back next year those numbers are going to be 4x and the year after that they're it's going to be like half the room and then the year after that it's gonna be everyone so the answer is agents are coming for everything we if you're not building them for your current workflows you're you're you should be um because uh there's so much that agents can do on our behalf to make our lives like better just like you know sean's heard me tell the story recently but like i was on a plane from salt lake city to Oakland last Thursday and I was on Delta's new Starlink like fast Wi-Fi I had four agents running in the background I the agents were working I was working agents with complete work I would pivot to them I probably did 25 or 30 hours of what pre CEO James a I would have looked like a year ago like it is it is a frontier of productivity that I think will be extraordinary but you need to like invest in the j-curve like what does it take to build those agents but i say all that because that's going to happen from the in the consumerization of these things so like our ability to build we're already building agents you know on your behalf and i think it will usher in this sort of real-time personalization agents out on the internet agents looking throughout inventory like imagine if there's somebody who's literally every time items are getting listed or like returned or whatever and they're like hey hey dylan i found some more stuff right and it becomes like a style advisor it becomes a shopping assistant and then eventually you give it permission to do stuff on your behalf which i mean i remember when my mom was like i don't shop on the internet where do they keep my credit card right you know and now like it's a funny thing but like that was for a while for a while people like i don't know if i store my credit card on the internet and i think that's where we are in aging agentic commerce is permissions for people to do stuff um and that's five years oh i think within that yeah i mean i'm glad ai we didn't even talk about this during the last world cup right right like if you think about the last time the world cup was played like ai was not something that any of us talked about like the cycle the acceleration is extraordinary were you buying khakis on the airplane i was not buying
Not yet. My agent was. We're well over. Thanks for bearing with us. The breakout is Jenny A. It's in one of those rooms that overlooks the atrium. Thank you.