Umb Financial Corp Q2 FY2020 Earnings Call

Good day and welcome to the UMB Financial Corp. Second Quarter 2020 Conference Call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Kay Gregory. Please go ahead.

Good morning and welcome to our second quarter 2020 call. Mariner Kemper, President and CEO and Ram Shankar, CFO, will share a few comments about our results. Jim Rine, CEO of UMB Bank and Tom Terry, Chief Credit Officer will also be available for the question-and-answer session. Before we begin, let me remind you that today's presentation contains forward-looking statements, all of which are subject to assumptions, risks, and uncertainties, including the currently unknown potential impacts of the COVID-19 crisis. These risks are included in our SEC filings and are summarized on page two of our presentation. Actual results and other future circumstances or aspirations may differ from those set forth in any forward-looking statement. Forward-looking statements speak only as of today and we undertake no obligation to update them except to the extent required by applicable securities laws. All earnings per share metrics discussed on this call are on a diluted share basis. Our presentation materials and press release are available online at investorrelations.umb.com. Now, I'll turn the call over to Mariner Kemper.

Thank you, Kay, and thanks everyone for joining us today. I hope you and your family are safe and healthy as we all navigate our way through not only a global pandemic, but an increasingly polarized and highly politicized environment. We have been engaging our associates, customers, and communities through proactive outreach and dialogue. Inclusion and diversity have always been core principles for UMB. However, like many others, we've taken more action in this time of heightened sensitivity. We offer a variety of resource groups for our associates and they are hosting ongoing conversations to educate and dispel stereotypes, as well as foster inclusion. On page five of the slides, we've included a few comments on our inclusion and diversity efforts, along with some key topics. I encourage you to read our recent Corporate Citizenship update by using the link shown there. During the quarter, we've continued to serve our customers fully, while most of our workforce remains offsite. We've begun seeing customers in our branches by appointment only and continue our drive-thru operations in most locations. Our sales teams have had success with virtual calling efforts, meetings with clients via video in some instances, and I'm extremely proud and impressed with how our associates continue to adapt and perform. We're taking a measured approach in our return to the workplace, bringing back a small percentage of our employees on a phased-in basis, and including enhanced safety protocols. While I'd like to see more of our team back in the office, health and safety will take a priority. Last quarter, I shared my thoughts on the economic crisis, paired with the unfortunate timing of the implementation of CECL and its likely impact on our industry. As we continue to see there's a great deal of subjectivity on how banks apply the methodology making comparisons of actual risks difficult at best. So, we focus on what we know and our priorities continue to be maintaining the high-quality underwriting standards that have served us well over the long term, maintaining solid capital and liquidity levels to carry us through this crisis, and doing what's right to support our workforce, customers, and communities. We entered the second half of the year in a position to manage what lies ahead. We have solid capital levels and a very strong liquidity position with a loan to deposit ratio that provides us flexibility. And most importantly, we have an experienced credit team with a superior track record, particularly in times of crisis. As it relates to the U.S. economy, we are navigating through the murky waters, muddled by a global pandemic, and deep-rooted social issues, where every issue is further politicized, particularly in an election year. For these reasons, the overall economy continues to be fragile and these uncertainties will likely persist into the next year. However, within our markets and among our borrowers, we haven't seen any significant signs of deterioration to date. Now, I'll turn to our second quarter results, which highlighted the balance sheet strengths I mentioned, along with the quality of our underwriting practices, as evidenced by our 15 basis points of net charge-offs. 30 days into the quarter, we continue to hear that our customers generally remain prepared to weather the current economic headwinds. We posted net income of $60.5 million or $1.26 per share on a GAAP basis, and $63.8 million or $1.33 per share on an operating basis. Pretax pre-provision income of $90.2 million represents a 7.6% increase over the linked-quarter and a 15% increase compared to the second quarter of 2019. Total fee income was strong at $120.5 million. While this included some market-related adjustments, including whole evaluations, we saw positive results in investment banking, as higher trading volumes, particularly in municipals and MBS, drove a linked-quarter increase of $6.2 million, which you can find in our trading and investment banking line. Similar to trends across the industry, we've seen reductions in 12b-1 fees in our brokerage business, as well as reduced credit and debit card spend across most categories. Net interest income increased 2.5% from the first quarter, driven by lower deposit and borrowing costs, along with strong loan volume, which included $1.5 billion in PPP loans. New loan production outside of PPP remains strong at $706 million, and pay-offs and pay-downs were slightly lower than historical averages at 3.2% of balances, excluding PPP. Organic growth was partly negated by the normalization of commercial line utilization, which was 31% at June 30, following the spike to 39% in the first quarter from the initial impact of COVID. In addition, some active deals we had in the pipeline at the end of the first quarter were pushed out a bit as customers paused to understand the implications of the crisis. Looking ahead into the third quarter, we continue to see robust activity. Average loan balances excluding PPP increased 8.2% on a linked-quarter basis annualized. Driven by commercial and consumer real estate, as C&I balances were impacted by the normalization of line utilization. Mortgage prequalification applications hit record highs during the quarter, helping to drive an 8.1% quarterly increase in consumer real estate. The composition of our loan portfolio remains diverse and well-balanced across several product lines, geographies, and industries, as shown on slide 18 in the balance sheet section of the presentation, followed by loan activity during the quarter, and breakdowns of our commercial portfolios by asset class. On slide 22, we've updated our exposure to sensitive industries that we shared in April. We removed transportation after reviewing its performance. That group is largely comprised of freight and warehouse relationships with top industry companies. And we've had little exposure to travel-related businesses. We've added senior living CREs to the list based on the potential strain on occupancy levels and operating expenses related to the COVID restrictions and increased pandemic-related costs. This category represents 2.1% of our loan portfolio or just 1.6% when risk adjusted. As we did last quarter, we again looked at each category for specific characteristics or specific credits that we feel comfortable with as well as those which may carry more risk if the crisis is prolonged. After an in-depth analysis, the portion we view as potentially being more impacted represents about 10% of total loans, excluding PPP balances. Of course, this isn't an indication that we expect losses in this portfolio, but we continue to keep a close eye on the conditions as they evolve. We've included some details and considerations in each category on the slide. Details on the $1.5 billion in PPP loans we booked during the quarter are shown on slide 23. The median size was $56,000 and as you can see, they are broadly diversified among industries. Now, looking at asset quality and provision, you see on slide 27, that second quarter provision under CECL was $21.5 million, which represents 3.9 times net charge-off of $5.5 million. As we noted previously, our substantial provision and reserve build in the first quarter was prudent and conservative. Additional reserve build in the second quarter brings our total allowance for loan losses to $200.3 million as of June 30 with an allowance to loan coverage of 1.3%. Excluding PPP loans, that coverage is 1.45%, or nearly two times what it was at year end 2019 prior to the adoption of CECL. Total reserves to non-performing assets is now 2.3 times compared to the peer median of 1.6 times based on those who have reported to date. Net charge-off to average loans for the quarter of just 15 basis points is better than our long-term historical performance and NPLs improved from the first quarter to 0.54% of loans. UMB has always had a reputation for being responsive, consistent, and prudent as it relates to credit and we have a good long-term track record for keeping rank credits from moving to loss based on our relationships with our clients. While this unpredictable environment is a new territory for all of us, we'll keep our focus on risk management and believe that our credit quality will remain one of the key differentiators, especially during periods of stress. This quarter, we've added a more granular look at loans by type in the loan risk table on slide 29. This data shows the quality inherent in our portfolio. We're continuing to provide flexibility for our clients through modifications and you'll see those totals in the table as well. Based on initial requests, we approved approximately $2.1 billion in modifications. However, many of those were ultimately not accepted as customers determined they weren't fully necessary. This speaks to the general strength of our customer base. At June 30, we had loan modifications of $1.3 billion on our books, representing 9.6% of the portfolio excluding PPP balances. This includes our proactive offer of six-month deferrals to our practice solution clients, largely dental offices in our business banking group. Our teams are in regular contact with our clients and have ongoing dialogue. Anecdotally, conversations with our CRE customers indicate that a good portion will begin making payments at the end of the deferral period. As we indicated last quarter, a significant number of our borrowers within the sensitive industries have strong balance sheets and sponsors. Well ahead of the pandemic, we had begun the reinvigoration of our retail business, including online banking upgrades, online account opening, and our new Teller platform. We onboarded the second wave of our existing online banking users just days after we moved our branch operations to drive-thru only in mid-March. Usage has increased, although the timing makes it difficult to fully engage the drivers of the uptake among our customers. The average number of daily online banking users increased by 12% during the second quarter and the number of users enrolled in our personal finance tool in the new platform increased 42% from March to June. Mobile deposit capture has increased 44% since customer access to branches was limited and finally, since our online account opening capabilities fully launched in May, about 17% of our new DDA accounts have been opened through the digital channel. Ultimately, it's clear that a mix of options is important to our customer base and we'll continue to make sure our network has the appropriate capabilities. We continually look at staffing and the use of technology as we transform our digital offering, especially in light of the headwinds we're living through. In closing, I reiterate what I said at the beginning, we're in a sound position to navigate what lies ahead. We continue to manage for the long term with a strong capital liquidity position, a history of prudent risk management, and diverse revenue sources to help provide buffers in the interest rate environment we're living in. Now, I'll turn it over to Ram to discuss some of the drivers of our results.

Thank you, Mariner. I'll begin with comments on CECL and the drivers of our allowance for credit losses, which begin on slide 25. As we previously discussed, we took a conservative approach to our first quarter modeling, considering the volatility and frequent changes in economic expectations we saw at that time. As Mariner noted, our second quarter provision for credit losses totaled $21.5 million, down from $88 million in the linked-quarter. Approximately half of the provisioning in the second quarter reflected changes and key macro-economic variables as prescribed in the Moody's Baseline Economic Forecast issued in June, as well as consideration for modified loans. Future provisioning levels will continue to be predicated on loan growth, any changes in our portfolio mix, net charge-offs, and forward-looking macro-economic assumptions that drive our economic models. At June 30, nearly 85% of our allowance for credit losses was attributed to our commercial and commercial real estate portfolios. Now, looking at the quarterly results, net interest income of $178.2 million represents an increase of $4.3 million from the first quarter benefiting from a 58 basis points reduction in the cost of interest bearing liabilities and loan volumes including PPP loans. These were offset by the adverse impact of a 105 basis points quarter-over-quarter decrease in the one month LIBOR rate. Total earning asset yield fell 57 basis points to 3.01% from the linked-quarter driven by a 73 basis point decline in loan yields. Net interest spread increased one basis point over the first quarter and was down only five basis points from the year ago period. Net interest margin compressed by 18 basis points from the first quarter. Drivers of the change included a 34 basis point reduction from loan yield, which included a negative three basis points to margin from PPP loans and positive two basis points from the synthetic floor we have in place. A 19 basis points reduction from excess liquidity and the reduced benefit of free funds, negative two basis points from lower reinvestment rates and market changes in the AFS portfolio, partially offset by a positive 38 basis points impact from lower interest bearing liability costs, including a 53 basis points reduction in the cost of interest bearing deposits to 0.3%. As stated, fee income was $120.5 million for the quarter and reflected continued impacts on the volatile markets, including a valuation adjustment in company-owned life insurance income, which resulted in a $24.8 million swing from the last quarter, which is included in the other income line. This increase is offset by a similar increase in deferred compensation expense. As Mariner mentioned, increased muni and MBS volumes drove solid increases to our investment banking income supplemented by market valuation benefits from our trading portfolio. Offsets included a $4.1 million reduction of brokerage fees and a $3.6 million reduction in bank card income. We've been watching as peers have reported results, and it's clear that the pandemic has dramatically impacted credit and debit card spending patterns. Our card purchase volume stats are on slide nine. On a year-over-year basis, we saw a 17% decline in total card volumes, driven largely by reduced healthcare spending, as people have delayed some routine medical and dental care, as well as decreases in travel, gasoline, restaurants, and entertainment spending. On the commercial front, corporate travel and entertainment have been curtailed and municipalities which make up a good portion of our card business have seen declines related to school closings and reduction in other usual activities. Expenses for the quarter increased 10.6% or $19.9 million compared to the first quarter, driven by a $24.6 million increase in deferred compensation expense, offset to the increased COLI income I mentioned. In the salaries and benefits line, this increase was partially offset by lower payroll taxes and profit sharing and 401(k) expense. Marketing expense decreased $1.4 million compared to the first quarter from the decline in travel and business development activities due to the pandemic. Additionally, we recorded $4 million in non-recurring costs tied to our COVID-19 response. For the full year 2020, we anticipate the tax rate will be approximately 12% to 14%. Moving back to the balance sheet, average deposits increased 9.4% on a linked-quarter basis and free funds now comprise nearly 34% of total deposits. We estimate that about $560 million of demand deposit balances of June 30 were related to PPP funds dispersed to our customers. We continue to maintain strong regulatory capital ratios with the CET1 ratio of 11.92% based on the adoption of inter-agency guidance for regulatory capital transition and tangible common equity to assets of 8.7%. Our tangible book value per share increased to $53.57 at the end of the quarter, up 15% from a year ago. For comparison, our peers that have reported so far have shown an increase of 6.6%. Regulatory capital ratios are shown on slide 13. That concludes our prepared remarks. And I'll turn it now back over to the operator to begin the Q&A portion of the call.

We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Our first question comes from Gordon McGuire with Stephens. Please go ahead.

Good morning.

Good morning, Gordon.

I wanted to start on the balance sheet size, even including the PPP deposits, deposits grew $2.7 billion quarter-over-quarter. I'm curious what trends you're seeing so far in July in terms of deposit balances, and how much of that you'd expect to be fairly sticky or whether you're seeing any kind of outflows.

This is Mariner. We don't obviously give guidance. But I would say that the environment that we're in doesn't look to be over anytime soon and liquidity build seems to be a part of the environment we're living in, so we don't expect liquidity drawdowns anytime soon. We have a very, very diverse book of deposits. And I would say during the last crisis, when we had a safety and soundness liquidity build, it stuck around largely and we continue to build our balance sheet. It's too early, I would say, to determine what's going to happen. But if history is an indicator, we've largely picked up market share rather than just temporary liquidity. There'll be a combination, but I think it's too early to tell. But the first part of your question is what do we see? And I would just say that we're still in the environment, and people are still building liquidity.

And I think the last quarter; you had suggested that you would try to put more of the cash on hand into the securities portfolio. Is that still consistent looking forward from here?

We want to strategically shift more of our resources into loans, but it depends on the demand we are observing. If loan demand remains low, we will direct that liquidity towards securities instead.

And just on deposit cost, repricing was pretty strong in this quarter. Ram, I'm curious if you had an estimate to what kind of floor you could expect for cost, or how much more room you have to go on that front?

Go ahead Ram.

Yes. So, I mean, we're at 30 basis points for the second quarter in the month of June, we're about 28, right. So, if you look at last time, we were at zero to 25 basis points on the short end of the curve, our deposit costs bottomed out around 18 basis points or so. Of course, that's three, four years ago, and there's been some slight shifts in our deposit mix. So, there's still some room probably on the downside for deposit pricing based on some of the aggressive actions we're taking. But it's going to be marginal relative to the 53 basis points drop you saw in deposit cost this past quarter.

And then last thing for me. If I look at the sensitive industry update and compare each portfolio to what was listed last quarter, it looks like the potentially more impacted subset increased on a dollar basis and percent basis, I think particularly in multifamily, but also some of the other categories. I'm curious what drove that? Whether it's migration from less concern three months ago to more concern now? And if so, what trends or characteristics would have warranted more concern?

I'll provide a high-level overview, and then Ram can add any additional details I may miss. To start, the portfolio has slightly decreased in size, which affects the percentage change relative to the balance sheet size. Additionally, we shifted from transportation to senior housing, which is the main change. If you consider the balance sheet size, this is more of a margin of error concept; it's essentially the same size and I would say it remains stable. Ram, do you have anything to add?

No, that's exactly it. You can see in our footnote on slide 22 that we removed transportation as an atlas category. Instead, given occupancy trends and the recent headlines about senior living, we included that, and that differential is just about 100 basis points. That's why you see it marginally tick up.

Yes, I want to clarify that our understanding of this concept differs from how it is being interpreted. We do not believe that this identified group signifies a loss. It is simply a set of categories that we are monitoring more closely, and it does not indicate a loss. That's an important point to add.

Okay, and I appreciate the switch from transportation to senior living, but I guess I was looking at multifamily went from 361 potentially more impacted in dollar balances to 463. And I was curious if there was any increased concern out of some of these portfolios.

Tom, you want to take that. It's really a minor shift.

Yes, this is Tom Terry. Some of that is just the growth in construction loans. We still have construction loans that are advancing, so you are seeing an increase in balances. There has not been a shift in identification of any additional concerns. I think it's just the natural growth that we're seeing mainly in our construction loans.

Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Thanks Gordon.

Our next question comes from Chris McGratty of KBW. Please go ahead.

Great. Good morning everybody.

Good morning Chris.

Mariner in your prepared remarks, I think you characterize that the outlook for loan growth or loan demand as robust, which is a little bit more optimistic than some of your peers. I'm interested what you're seeing in your markets that leads you to that statement? And any color you could have on loan repricing would be great.

Certainly. On loan growth, even in the second quarter, we experienced a slight decrease mainly due to reduced line utilization. However, gross production actually increased. In the second quarter, we saw gross figures align with our expectations, but they were offset by utilization rates, which we view as a positive indicator of portfolio quality. Looking ahead to the next quarter, part of the reason for the lower figures in the second quarter was the impact of coronavirus, leading to a slowdown in closing deals and bringing parties together. Consequently, some of the growth and loans we anticipated shifted into the third quarter. Moving forward, our loan growth has always focused more on gaining market share in underrepresented areas rather than on overall economic activity. So, when we mention robust loan growth, it reflects our strategic efforts to capture market share in larger markets where we have been underrepresented, rather than an indication of economic health.

I appreciate that. Thank you for that. Maybe a follow-up, you know, the ability to fine tune branches has been an emerging theme, I think with COVID you guys have in the past with emerging team, I think with COVID, you guys have in the past been pretty proactive in terms of managing your branches. I'm interested kind of how you're thinking about expenses and expense management in this environment, and maybe what you've learned over the last 90 days that could lead to some synergies over time. Thanks.

I can say that we are currently in the midst of significant changes. As we've noted in our prepared remarks, these changes are related to increased activity across all our mobile platforms and products. What we initially thought would take a decade is now expected to happen in just two years. I anticipate that the next two years will show a notable increase in digital acceptance of our products and customer interactions. While it's too soon to determine our exact plans, we are deeply engaged in analyzing the implications and how we will adapt. We are considering various options, including the nature of branch operations and whether we will move to appointment-only services or drive-up transactions. These questions are currently being evaluated, but it is certain that there will be changes, and operations will become more efficient.

Great. That's great. And maybe the last one for Ram, can you help us with the PPP outlook, the amount of fees that are to come in and maybe the timing or how you're modeling it? Thanks.

Yeah. That remains to be seen, right, Chris? So what we're modeling is very consistent with what others have said somewhere between 60% and 80%. Paying off in the fourth and first quarters that's probably the earliest that we expect a big drudge of these forgiveness, things to happen. So probably, I would say, distributed evenly between the fourth and the first quarters, I would start with 60% to 80% range.

And then the amount of the fees that are yet to be realized?

It's approximately 240, based on the medium we disclosed. Our median size for the PPP is around 56,000. For modeling purposes, we were using about 2.4% on these balances.

Hi, guys. Good morning. I want to just touch on the loan modifications, as disclosed in the slide deck. I was just curious, as you guys are talking to clients at this point, how much of those, 10% of loans that are deferred currently are expected to need a second deferral going forward?

Tom, you want to take that?

Yeah. At this point, we feel like the volume of requests per second deferral, so far has been very low. In our commercial real-estate book, it's been roughly 35%. Of those on deferral who have requested a second deferral. In the C&I portfolio, it's been less than that. Certainly, all of that is subject to the pausing of the economy and kind of what lies ahead over the next several weeks and months, so that could change. But right now we're hearing very positive commentary from our customers and the level of requests has really slowed.

Okay, great.

We have that information because I needed to confirm the note. From the first quarter, when we discussed the percentage of deferrals, those were approved. Currently, what's been accepted is significantly less than 1.3 billion compared to Tom.

2.1 billion was approved, but ultimately only 1.3 billion was booked. Many clients who were approved for modifications decided they didn't need them and continued paying for the contract.

The second number we are announcing today is more significant than the first number because the first number only reflects what we approved at the end of the last quarter.

Hi, guys. Good morning. I want to just touch on the loan modifications.

Yes.

Yeah. At this point, we feel like the volume of requests per second deferral, so far has been very low. In our commercial real-estate book, it's been roughly 35%. Of those on deferral who have requested a second deferral. In the C&I portfolio, it's been less than that. Certainly, all of that is subject to the pausing of the economy and kind of what lies ahead over the next several weeks and months, so that could change. But right now we're hearing very positive commentary from our customers and the level of requests has really slowed.

We have that information because I needed to confirm the note. From the first quarter, when we discussed the percentage of deferrals, those were approved. What has been accepted at this time is significantly less than 1.3 billion compared to Tom.

We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Our next question comes from Chris McGratty of KBW. Please go ahead.

I appreciate that. Thanks for the color on CECL that certainly helpful. But maybe switching over to the commercial loan book, have those utilization rates stabilize and in your commentary for robust loan growth in the third quarters, is any of that coming from the commercial base?

Can you ask that again?

So looking at the utilization rates in the commercial book of those started to stabilize at the 31%. And then as you look at the robust loan growth commentary for the third quarter, is any of that being driven by the commercial book?

The utilization rate is difficult to predict going forward because it depends on future developments. However, it aligns more closely with our historical utilization rates at this point. This alignment suggests that while it may not hinder loan growth in the next quarter due to stabilizing at historic levels, it likely won't significantly contribute to the growth we anticipate either.

Okay. Understood.

Tom, we have that. Then on the slide there.

So on page 29, the business banking category has been completed with six month deferrals. The majority of the remaining items were completed on a 90 day interest only basis.

Okay. And so I guess, the business banking clients have a deferral period of going on. How much visibility are you getting into that sub segment? Is there enough that gives you kind of cautious optimism coming out of this? Or is this going to be more of a situation then until that deferral period ends? It's going to be really hard to gauge what the outcome is.

Go ahead, Tom.

The majority of the business banking segment consists of our practice finance loans, primarily to dentists. You can closely monitor the situation based on when dental offices reopen and are permitted to perform more elective procedures, which is currently happening. We are optimistic that once the deferral period ends, they will be able to return to a normal payment structure. The uncertainty lies in the possibility of a renewed lockdown that could alter this situation. In the initial 30 to nearly 60 days of the shutdown, dental offices were completely closed except for emergency procedures. As the economy gradually reopens and dental practices resume elective procedures, we believe they will be able to exit the deferral period at the end of the agreement.

Great. Thank you.

Thanks, Timur.

We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Our next question comes from Chris McGratty of KBW. Please go ahead.

Great, thanks for the follow-up. Just wanted to get a little bit more color on the trajectory of service charges, we've heard from most banks that the elevated cash and liquidity is obviously in lower transactions are just waiting on that. But it just didn’t kind of that progression over the course of April, May, June?

You got that Ram or Jim I?

Well, this is Jim Rine. Regarding service charges, we initially thought the increase in the first quarter was due to a one-time event, but we’re now observing that, like most others, our service charges are actually declining. However, they remain consistent with earnings credit due to having more cash on the balance sheet. As a result, this line item will likely experience some pressure. Importantly, this decline is not due to losing business or other market actions, but rather an increased offset.

So relatively stable to this point with some sort of industry pressure based on just trends, right, but there's no nothing underneath the hood on it.

And maybe just one quick one on the hotel portfolio. Could you could you make a comment on occupancy rates in your portfolio and kind of where, where those need to be for kind of breakeven, for some of your borrowers?

Well, we out, and then the first answer is it's just under 50%. And we mostly have limited service as you know, within the portfolio. As far as breakeven, I'm not sure that's something you know, Tom, that's something we have for Sydney from Sydney.

Not, off top. We don't.

We currently have an occupancy rate just under 50% in our portfolio, which we are monitoring closely. Our portfolio is guaranteed with large liquid sponsors and primarily consists of limited service hotels, which have fewer additional expenses. Generally, these limited service hotels are performing better than other categories, and we feel positive about our position. We can discuss breakeven points in future quarters, as they can vary from one hotel to another.

I appreciate that. Just a quick question about the deferral process for hotels. Some banks were requiring more equity to secure that deferral. Can you explain how the deferral process worked specifically for your hotel board borrowers?

Yeah, I'll take that. You have to also start out on the basis that the hotel deals that we have done, started out at lower loan to cost, lower loan to value. Generally, with strong sponsors, so we just, we didn't require across the board additional equity in some cases. We did, but as a rule, we just would go ahead and do the deferral. But again, we're going into these, I think in a stronger position than perhaps some of our gathering.

Thank you.

We will now conclude the question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Kay Gregory, for any closing remarks.

Thank you, and thanks for joining us today for our call. If you have further questions you can reach UMB Investor Relations at 816-860-7106. Thank you, and have a great day.

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.