Fair Isaac Corp Q2 FY2020 Earnings Call

Greetings and welcome to the FICO Quarterly Earnings Call. I would now like to turn the conference over to Steve Weber. Please, go ahead.

Thank you. Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining FICO's Second Quarter Earnings Call. I'm Steve Weber, Vice President of Investor Relations; and I'm joined today by our CEO, Will Lansing; and our CFO, Mike McLaughlin. Today, we issued a press release that describes financial results compared to the prior year. On this call, management will also discuss results in comparison to the prior quarter in order to facilitate understanding of the run rate of our business. Certain statements made in this presentation may be characterized as forward-looking under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Those statements may involve many uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. Information concerning these uncertainties is contained in the Company's filings with the SEC, in particular, in the Risk Factors and Forward-Looking Statements portions of such filings. Copies are available from the SEC, from the FICO website or from our Investor Relations team. This call will also include statements regarding certain non-GAAP financial measures. Please refer to the Company's earnings release and Regulation G schedule issued today for a reconciliation of each of those non-GAAP financial measures to the most comparable GAAP measure. The earnings release and Regulation G schedule are available on the Investor Relations page of the Company's website at fico.com or on the SEC's website at sec.gov. A replay of this webcast will be available through April 29, 2021. And now, I'll turn the call over to Will Lansing.

Thanks, Steve, and thank you everyone for joining us for our second quarter earnings call. First, I hope you and your families are healthy and staying safe as we go through this pandemic. As we all know, these are unprecedented times. No one can predict with any certainty the scale or length of disruption from COVID-19 or how severe the economic and health impacts will be. Many unknowns include the scope and effect of further public health responses as well as governmental, regulatory, fiscal and monetary policies. As we usually do, we've posted some slides with our results on the Investor Relations section of our website. I'll be referencing a few of those today during my presentation. Today, I'll go over the results for our second fiscal quarter and first half of the year, then I'll talk about how we're viewing our business in light of the current situation and how we plan to execute on a plan to remain strong while preparing for the opportunities when this crisis ends. As we show on Slide 2, we've been successful in moving to a work-from-home structure and have not skipped a beat in how we serve the needs of our customers. In fact, nearly all of our 4,000-person global workforce are currently working from home. We responded early, closing our China offices in February, and we followed the lead of local state and national authorities and 43 offices in 32 different countries. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all of our employees who've responded to the quickly unfolding circumstances and have allowed us to adjust to ensure that key internal and client-side deliverables remain on track. We were well prepared to move to this model. Over the last year, we've increased our usage of video-based communications. Before the pandemic, it was a valuable tool to drive collaboration or reduce travel; it is now a critical business practice. Our technology team had already built a robust VPN infrastructure that permits remote access to secured networks and servers. That infrastructure and our cloud-based solutions and support have meant that we are able to serve our customers without any significant loss of productivity, and as always, our cybersecurity team has been focused on protecting customer environments and sensitive data. It hasn't been easy. These are uncertain, stressful times for everyone. But I'm proud of the business continuity efforts we've undertaken to prepare for potential issues, whatever they may be, and how those efforts have paid extraordinary dividends as we are able to adapt to the challenges we face. So, I'm pleased to report that we had a very strong second fiscal quarter. We reported revenues of $308 million, an increase of 11% over the same period last year. We delivered $58 million of GAAP net income and GAAP earnings of $1.94 per share. We delivered $64 million of non-GAAP net income and non-GAAP EPS of $2.14. This is in spite of the fact that we've begun to experience COVID-related disruptions in late March; we were able to generate $84 million in new bookings, which is impressive considering that most of our deals are closed at the end of the quarter right when businesses were closing and everyone was transitioning to work from home. We continue to have a strong pipeline and believe many of our solutions are exactly what our customers are looking for as they focus on risk management. Our software revenue was up 3% this quarter; applications were down 1% as we had fewer upfront license sales and less services revenue than last year. Decision Management software was up 20%, with increases in both license sales and transactional revenue from deals we've signed in previous quarters. In this course business, we had another great quarter due to special pricing that began to take effect. Total revenues were up 24% versus the prior year and totaled $129 million. On the B2B side, revenues were up 27% over the same period as last year. B2C revenues were up 15% this quarter. Scores, particularly in B2B, are also an area of risk during volatile economic times, as some of those revenues are tied to things like origination of new loans. The strength of our business and our conservative financial practices have allowed us to build a healthy balance sheet. As you can see on Slide 4, we have ample liquidity and borrowing capacity. But as we look ahead, it's impossible to fully understand what the possible impacts to our markets will be and predict when the economy will improve. Because of these uncertainties, we are retracting our full-year guidance. I'd like to direct you to Slide 5 to remind everyone what our original guidance was, where we stand now halfway through the year, and what we would need to do in the back half to achieve those original numbers. In this version, this slide provides more details of our guidance than what we previously disclosed, including more granularity around revenues. The red highlighted areas are of potential higher risk in the coming months. With B2B Scores, as I said, it's difficult for us to accurately forecast what will happen with volumes in the near term. Because these Scores are sold through bureaus that report to us in arrears, we don't have visibility to real-time data. In times of disruption, this is especially difficult until we can begin to see the trends in the data. We anecdotally know that mortgage volumes have been strong, and auto has been weak, but it's difficult to quantify what's happening at present levels over the next several months. Now on the software side, we have a great deal of visibility into our transactional and maintenance revenue streams. I believe those revenues to be very resilient. It's more difficult to estimate how many deals we'll be able to close and what potential impacts that would have on license and service revenue. We know that we have a strong pipeline of deals and fully expect to close many of them, but there's clearly more uncertainty than there was a few months ago. We also believe that we'll spend less than originally planned. We will likely see savings in some revenue-based expenses and we'll spend less on travel, marketing, and other discretionary areas. We're scrutinizing our expenses more than ever and are committed to being as efficient as possible. In short, we don't know the severity or duration of disruptions in credit markets or technology purchases. Declines in Scores volumes will have a negative impact on our revenues despite the special pricing that we started to see this quarter, but it's difficult to know, for instance, if declines in auto sales now create a backlog of buyers in the fall or if it is part of a longer downturn. And while sales cycles for our solutions will likely be longer, we don't yet know how much is due to customers reassessing purchases versus the logistical challenges of remote selling. That said, we remain confident in our business model. We've had a great start to the year. We have a large amount of recurring revenue. While we expect our software revenues in the second half of the year to be lower than our guidance due to COVID-19, we also expect expenses to decline primarily due to reduced sales, marketing expenses, and employee travel. These expense reductions will mitigate the impact on our bottom line and we expect to have other operating expense savings due to general disruptions. So even though top line volatility is difficult to predict, we could still meet our original bottom-line guidance if a number of factors play out. These are exceptionally volatile times, but we remain optimistic and are actively managing the business to bridge the short-term difficulties while building long-term value. I'll share some summary thoughts later, but now I'd like to turn the call over to Mike for further financial details.

Thanks, Will, and good afternoon everyone. As usual, I'll start with some detail around the revenue for Q2 fiscal '20. FICO's revenue for the quarter was $308 million, an increase of 11% over the prior year. Our application segment revenue was $140 million, down 1% versus the same period last year. The decrease in revenue was driven primarily by lower license and professional services revenue. Software application bookings for the quarter were $48 million, down 24% from last year, due in large part to COVID-19 related disruptions and sales efforts at the end of March. In our Decision Management software segment, Q2 revenues were $39 million, up 20% over the same quarter last year. This increase was primarily due to license and SaaS subscription revenues from our Decision Management platform products. Decision Management software bookings were $23 million in Q2, down 17% from the previous year, similarly due to software sales disruptions at the end of the quarter. Finally, our Score segment revenues were $129 million, up 24% from the same period last year. B2B Scores revenue was up 27% over the same period last year and B2C revenues were up 15% from the same period. We do expect disruptions to Scores volumes, particularly on the B2B side as loan originations decline in some credit verticals. As Will said, Scores volumes are reported to us monthly in arrears, and so we did not have visibility into the Scores volumes in real time. Turning to our global revenue mix. In our second fiscal quarter, 78% of total revenues were derived from our Americas region, our EMEA region generated 14%, and the remaining 8% was from the Asia Pacific region. Recurring revenues derived from transactional and maintenance sources represent 78% of total revenues in the quarter; consulting and implementation revenues were 16% and licensed revenues were 6% of the total. Revenues derived from our cloud-delivered software as a service or SaaS products were $74 million for the quarter, which includes $58 million in transactional revenue and $17 million in professional services revenue. That's an increase of 12% from the previous year for our SaaS business. Total bookings, including our Scores segments for the quarter, totaled $40 million, down 20% from last year; those bookings generated $12 million in current period revenues for a 14% yield. SaaS bookings were $31 million for the quarter, which was down 6% from the previous year. Our operating expenses totaled $232 million in this quarter, down $14 million from the prior quarter due primarily to decreases in travel, marketing, and other discretionary expenses and the $3 million in restructuring costs in Q1 that did not recur in Q2. FICO's GAAP operating margin for the second quarter was 25% and our non-GAAP operating margin, as shown in our schedule, is 32%. GAAP net income this quarter was $58 million, up 75% from the prior year. Our non-GAAP net income was $64 million for the quarter, representing a 36% increase from the same quarter last year. Our effective tax rate this quarter was about 7%, which included about $12 million of excess tax benefits resulting from stock-based compensation activities. We expect our effective tax rate to be around 10% to 12% for the full fiscal year. Free cash flow for the quarter was $55 million compared to $44 million in the same period last year. Free cash flow for the trailing four quarters was $259 million. Turning to the balance sheet, at the end of the quarter, we had $109 million in cash, down $2 million from last quarter, primarily driven by share repurchases, partially offset by cash generated from operations. Our total debt face value is $959 million, with a weighted average interest rate of 4.44%. At the end of the quarter, we had drawn $124 million on our $400 million revolving line of credit. We anticipate drawing on that facility to pay for the $85 million maturities of senior notes coming up in July. Our leverage ratio, calculated for our revolving line of credit, was 2.25 times. As a reminder, our current covenant is 3.0 times and that covenant will expand to 3.25 when those mature in July. Turning to return of capital, we bought back 290,000 shares in the second quarter for $96 million at an average price of $331 per share. At the end of March, we had about $64 million remaining on the board repurchase authorization. Finally, as Will said, because of the uncertainty around COVID-19 and the impacts on the economic environment, we are withdrawing our previously issued financial guidance. With that, I'll turn it back over to Will for some final comments.

Okay. Work-from-home challenges. I'd like to end our prepared remarks today with some positive news. We're conducting a series of live webinars that we're calling building resiliency, adapting to the challenges of today. These webinars, which are almost a virtual cycle world, began last week and continue through May 28. The topics cover six tracks: adaptability, digital customer engagement, risk management, operational efficiency, building trust, and protecting customers. I'd encourage you to check it out; information's available on our website and there are a number of keynote sessions that I think will be of interest to our investors, including one I'll be doing jointly with Equifax's CEO, Mark Begor, on May 14th. Finally, I'd like to thank all of you for joining us today. These are challenging times, but I'm convinced we're up to the challenge. We can't control the external factors we face, but we can control how we respond and plan for the future. We're stewards of remarkable assets, and we remain optimistic as we look to the future. We'll bridge this period of disruption as we have in the past and will emerge as a place for growth. I'll be as transparent as possible as we work through this uncertainty and will provide guidance as soon as we have a better understanding of the economics and commercial environment. So, I'll now turn it back over to Steve for Q&A.

Thanks Will. We are now ready to take your questions. So, operator, please open the lines.

Thank you. Our first question is from Manav Patnaik with Barclays. Please go ahead.

I was wondering if you could share insights about the volume trends you observed during the quarter. While I realize you may not be able to comment on what’s happening beyond that point, could you provide information on the growth during the quarter and how it may compare to my earlier choices before Mike?

You're talking about B2C, Manav?

No, B2B.

B2B, Mike, I don't know if you have the details on that.

Yes. So, the big three buckets of volumes in that part of our business as you know are the mortgage business, the auto business and then credit cards, personal loans that we call the other segment. Mortgages were up, as you would expect given some of the refi dynamics that have been in place for a number of months. And in the auto and other segments, the volume changes, on a year-over-year basis were in the single-digit percentages, so not really anything to write home about there. With respect to the end of the quarter, the impact was close enough to the end of March, which is the last reports we have from our partners at the bureau. So, we did not see anything informative from those volumes at the end of March. Frankly, what you heard from the bureaus in their quarterly reports over the last week or number of days have more real-time information that we have on that front.

Got it. And maybe just on the B2C business as well, I mean, your mix of business has changed over the years. Do you anticipate that to be countercyclical or how should we think about that?

So far, it's holding up nicely and with respect to myFICO, for example, it's up. It's not surprising; consumers are very focused on their credit if it's kind of a time.

Okay. And then just the last one if I can squeeze it in. You talked about in a strong visibility on your transaction on the incident side of the software. So, I was just curious if you could just give a little bit of color on what you're seeing from the customers? I mean, has that decelerated? Is that being just pushed out much later like any talk?

Yes. It is being pushed out. So remember, we have a very long sales cycle, 250-day sales cycle. So, we had a lot of stuff that was in process that was closer to the end and to the beginning of the process and so that's something that pushed the next quarter; some of it got close. But they haven't been hit in the way they were back in 2007, 2008. It says this is a different kind of situation, and so we haven't seen them pulling back on their investment plans, at least not so far. Now, it would probably be naive to believe that everything will be business as usual, and I'm sure on the margin, there'll be some business that we were hoping for that won't happen. But we haven't seen tremendous changes in behavior other than the timeline for getting transactions done slowing down a little bit.

The next question is from Bill Warmington with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

So, I wanted to ask if you could talk a little bit about what the revenue exposure is in Scores for those three buckets, credit card, mortgage, and auto, that would be for the B2B side?

Bill, I think, as Mike mentioned a minute ago, I think broadly we can expect mortgage looks like it's going to be up, auto looks like it's going to be way down, credit cards and personal loans down, but I think you probably do better reading into the numbers that you see from the bureaus than asking us to speculate because we don't have it.

How does, I appreciate that in terms of the volumes, but once we get a sense of the volumes, then we have to map it to the FICO B2B revenue, and I was asking for some help in terms of how big is credit card as a percentage of revenue these days. How big is mortgage, how big is auto, how does that break down across the Scores B2B universe?

Mike, do you have those percentages? I don't know if you have any handy?

Yes, Bill, we haven't shared those in the past. I don't think this is the forum to change that disclosure practice. But I guess I can say that it hasn't changed materially, at least to the end of March, compared to what we had in the past four years.

I don't know if they're working or not, but they're out there. All right, well then when you guys are talking about, you've made some references to margins and how there's some natural reduction in expenses going along with revenue and T&E reduction freezing hiring and so on. Is it a thought to try to preserve the margin that was implied in the original guidance, which looks like it was around 30% to 33% EBITDA, that's adjusted EBITDA level around 30% operating margin? Is that the thought that to try to, if it is lower revenue to try and preserve that margin percentage or your thought is to try to actually raise that margin percentage to offset the decline and deliver the same level of EPS?

I think, Bill, you expect it will take every step as within our power to manage our expenses to maximize the margin. So, while we don't have complete control over the top line, we obviously have a little more control over the bottom line. And so I would hope that we could do better than preserving the rate. But again, if you look at the slide in our deck, we basically laid out what would happen have to be true for us to hit the prior guidance.

Correct. Okay. And then just one in the context of expenses, I wanted to ask about your plans for continued investment in the software business and how that's going. You had mentioned, when you gave the original guidance, you talked about some opportunities for increased efficiency within the software business. I want to see how that's all, how you're weighing all that now?

Well, as the impact COVID has been on our company, we were engaged in and continue to be engaged in a really extensive review of every activity that we have going on in the Company, and our goal is to really focus on things that are truly strategic and to de-emphasize things that are less strategic. And that initiative, that work proceed at the pace that it has not been slowed, at least by COVID. I think if anything, we're more committed than ever to getting as much of our capability onto the platform as quickly as possible so we can start to see the returns to scale that we're all looking for. So, I would say that, our investment plans on strategic and platform stuff are completely unchanged. If anything, we're looking for ways to free up resources to put even more against it. But then things that are off-platform, off-strategy, we're scrutinizing those barriers.

I wanted to inquire about the FICO Resilience Index. It seems like an intriguing product. Can you provide some insight into the rollout plan? It appears that Equifax is currently the only one testing it, but how soon do you anticipate it will start generating revenue? What is its potential?

We think it's going to be very big. It's not going to generate any revenue in the near term because our plan is to provide it for free along with FICO Scores. So if you buy a FICO Score, you can also get the FICO Resiliency Index along with it. We think that, there is commensurate, maybe worth spending just a minute on what it is. This is some really smart stuff that our guys came up with. That helps us to differentiate amongst consumers and evaluate their credit within any particular FICO Score, that's at a point in time and at a point in the economic cycle. And there are individuals who are more resilient and they're individuals who are less resilient. And the traditional way of dealing with downturns and we see it today is that lenders raise their lending thresholds. They raise their cutoff; and while obviously that's a prudent thing to do, we'd love for that to be a little more sophisticated and surgical and be able to evaluate some of the individuals below those cutoffs with more precision. And that's really what the FICO Resiliency Index does. It'll be bundled with the FICO Score. It will be widely available to anyone who's buying FICO Scores. It is currently in test, as you said with Equifax and the Dow. Experian will have it out too. TU should follow. And yes, we have high expectations because it's been very well received to date.

And we have a question from Jeff Meuler with Baird. Please go ahead.

Yes, thank you. Just within the software businesses. I understand that bookings are going to be impacted, which can impact revenue, license revenue, professional services. But in terms of client usage, I think there was a mention of collections and recovery. I'm guessing that's because of some collections hiatuses, but seeing some negative impacts there, but just what are you seeing across the different software businesses any kind of positives or negatives for the different products to call out?

We were seeing more in CCS and customer communication that's up a bit because the lenders are engaged in a lot more back-and-forth with their consumer customers than they have been in the past. So, that does a little the others, not tremendously different investment and we're not saying dudes proportional or anything.

And then within the B2B Scores, how much of it is tied to, I guess origination or marketing type volumes and how much of it is stickier or account management or open access programs have Scores in terms of B2B revenue mix?

We don't break it out; we don't break it out. I think it's fair to assume that there'll be a little less origination activity. I mean, that's not unreasonable.

Okay, and then there was two comments as you were talking about the special pricing; one was began to take effect and then started to see just any sense of roughly how much of the special pricing was the benefit felt this quarter versus yet to be further than?

We would have felt it. Yes, it's come in.

We have a question from Brett Huff with Stephens. Please go ahead.

Question to follow up on what I thought was an interesting comment you made about bank health. And well, I think you phrased it, the banks weren't hit, aren't hit yet as hard or aren't as hard as maybe the great recession just given this isn't bank-led. A lot of our clients are trying to suss out kind of how banks are reacting. So, can you just flush out that a little bit more; I think you mentioned that you haven't seen any major changes in investments, but kind of what is their attitude as you talk to them about what their game plan is and how you can help them?

Well, I think that they're much better prepared than the last time. Their balance sheets are stronger. They have more capital on hand. They learned the last time around, and I also think that the government and the Fed have jumped in a way that very quickly in a way that they didn't the last time around to ponder. And so, I think it's those kinds of things. And as you can see from their public statements, if you look at the public statements from the big bank CEOs, they're obviously planning to weather this much better than the last time around.

That's helpful. Any particular products that piqued my interest in the last six weeks. I'm assuming maybe collections or something like that, but anything that has kind of spiked up given the changes in the outlook?

Since, as I mentioned earlier, there's more usage of our customer communication services, which is the last mile to customer consumer contacts; those volumes are up. Remember, loan sales cycle and so you wouldn't see things change quickly. The things that are in place, we're seeing more volume in places you'd expect like CCS. But otherwise, we're not; and then we're expecting with all the transaction volume down, credit card transaction volume down. It may have an impact on Falcon volumes. But most of our Falcon business is priced by account. And so, I'm not sure how much impact it was really going to have on us.

Okay. Thank you for that. Last question from me is one of the things that a lot of folks have been asking us is kind of all the value proposition that the FICO Score continues to provide, and even at higher prices, we're of the opinion that it's still one of the best deals going in risk management and portfolio management. Any conversations, I don't know how much you can talk about banks, but what is the, any added views on how does that value play out in an uncertain situation like this for banks? Do they perceive it differently? Are they looking to buy differently, buy more, et cetera for that risk management in a situation like this?

So, the answer is yes. We strongly believe that, it's a tremendous tool. FICO is a tremendous tool for evaluating creditworthiness and more needed, more necessary, more in demand than ever in times like these. The Resiliency Index that I mentioned earlier is tied up in that. And so, the way we think about it, we are constantly innovating and trying to find ways to bring ever more sophistication to that evaluation to that decision, and that's worked out pretty well. Will they be pulling account management support more frequently in these times? To be determined? We'll see. We'll see. It wouldn't be a shock.

And we have a question from Surinder Thind with Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon. Will, I'd like to start with a question on the discourse business. Can you talk a little bit about the strength in the B2C segment? There is a little bit of a color on it earlier, but a double-digit growth at this point seems really strong and how should we think about the consumer in this environment and then maybe even from a competitive perspective in the sense that there are perhaps other competing services out there that are also trying to at least mimic, providing consumers support type information for free.

Yes. I mean that's been going on for years. There are players out there who provide non-FICO Scores to consumers to help them, to give them a sense of what their creditworthiness. But since lenders predominantly use FICO Scores, there's a mismatch there. Consumers are sometimes confused, but we've been working for a long time trying to clear up that confusion and make sure that consumers understand that a credit score is not a FICO Score unless it's a FICO score. And that what they are trying to understand is what the lender thinks of them, what the lender's evaluation of their creditworthiness is; and the FICO Scores a way to do it. We have an arrangement with Experian, our partner, where Experian provides FICO Scores to the consumers in their consumer offerings. We offer obviously FICO Scores in our own consumer offering at myFICO. We think that there's more appetite and interest in that than ever, just kind of given the situation; people are concerned about their credit. And so, we feel pretty good about that business as tied to the origination of credit cards; in the sense that there's a time there that'll slow that down.

Can you provide any insights on whether Experian is the main source of B2C revenues, or if myFICO also contributes significantly?

Experian is larger than myFICO. MyFICO is a solid business too, just of a smaller scale. I can't share specific numbers, but experience is also very important to that business.

And then in terms of just a big picture question for the Scores business, obviously, it is a very transaction-driven business. Is there consideration to maybe moving more towards the licensing model just to reduce some of the volatility? Or is there an appetite from that from clients? Or is there any kind of discussions? Obviously, I think it was last quarter I believe that there was a big licensing deal, any colors or thoughts that you might be having with clients especially maybe in the current environment around something like this?

Most of our Scores businesses are priced per Score.

Understood, meaning that from your guidance perspective, from a strategy perspective, the desire for you guys to go more towards a licensing model?

Well, we're pretty happy with the model that we have. I don't know that we're looking to modify it.

Understood, and then moving towards the software business. Can you talk a little bit about the applications business versus DMS? Maybe the idea being that how should we maybe think about the mix of sales on a go-forward basis? Is the sales force being incentivized to maybe sell DMS over applications? Or I know in the past times you guys have talked about that you're agnostic, but obviously DMS is the platform of the future, right?

We have traditionally focused more on selling DMS-based products. Ultimately, our priority is to provide our customers with what they require. If DMS-based products are suitable, that's great; if not, we will adapt accordingly. We compensate our sales staff regardless of what they sell. However, as we look to the future, it seems likely that we will lean more towards DMS sales compared to non-DMS sales. This is an important area of business to monitor as it represents the future.

And then maybe turning to expenses, I mean, obviously, given the strength in your cash flows, the balance sheet as a firm. I mean, do you really have to think about playing defense in the current environment? And I got the sense that you guys were obviously watching the expenses carefully. Obviously, that's good to do at any point in time, but how should we just think about your overall expense allocation at this point or investment versus maybe what it would be under normalized conditions? How much of a difference are you guys kind of seeing? Obviously, there's a natural component to it, meaning obviously, the less travel is marketing-type stuff, but just any color there would be helpful?

If you're asking about COVID-specific kind of implications, that you just mentioned them, it's things like travel, and it's the fact that when revenues lower, we have less expenses associated with servicing that revenue. So, that part is for sure. I wouldn't say that we're in a place where suddenly because of COVID our backs are to the wall and we have to rethink our entire expense structure. I think we're doing the thing that management always does, which is reviewing whether every dollar is well spent and we are engaged in that process and continue to be engaged in that process. But I wouldn't call it an emergency or a response to COVID. I think just managing the business.

Okay, understood. That was actually my point that you guys really do have a strong cash flow and balance sheet so you don't perhaps need to be as defensive as maybe other organizations are.

Absolutely.

And then I guess turning to the question being in terms of just, when I look at the personal expenses, headcount is up year-over-year but the personnel costs are down. Is that mostly like variable conflict that delta there? Or how should we be thinking about that difference?

It's two things, so as you may recall, we had a restructuring expense last quarter, a part of that was to reduce headcount. And so, there's some of that. And then also, we accrued throughout the year-year-end incentive bonuses, both cash and stock-based, based on certain expected outcome and that outcome exceeded or underperformed. And rate at which we accrue the year-end does have an impact on that period-to-period labor costs. The big picture though is that, headcount is essentially flat. I think it's up 0.5% versus where we were last quarter, and there's nothing significant going on in terms of the mix of compensation or the rate of change of compensation per person.

There are no further questions at this time.

Thank you. Thank you everyone for joining today's call. We look forward to talking with you again soon. Stay safe and healthy and thank you again.

That concludes the call for today. We thank you for your participation and ask that you to disconnect your lines.