Rockwell Automation, Inc (ROK) February 17, 2026 Conference Transcript

We're very excited for you all to be here. Welcome to Citi's 2026 Global Industrial Tech and Mobility Conference. I think we've got a great slate for you. We've got over 160 companies this year. I'm Andy Kapowitz, Citigroup's multi-industry Indian Cianos. We are very excited to have Rockwell Automation with us. Rockwell has been a mainstay of the conference. Rockwell starting out today is awesome. Thank you, Blake. So we have Blake Morit, who is our chairman and CEO, Matthias Bujok, who is Rockwell's SVP of software and control. So I'm going to turn it over to you, Blake. I know you have some opening comments, and then we will go into Q&A.

Well, good morning, everyone. As Andy said, I'm Blake Moret, Chairman and CEO of Rockwell. I'm going to start with just a few framing comments, and then looking forward to the fireside chat. so many of you have followed Rockwell for some time I'd like to make the point that Rockwell has considerably increased our resilience in the past few years more exposure across a wider variety of verticals a discrete hybrid and process process actually makes up 40% of our total business we've We've added considerable, profitable annual recurring revenue, it's over 10% of our business, a mixture of software as well as high value services, and we've redoubled our focus on operational excellence, so that's certainly provided benefits throughout our supply chain. We have a good blend of hardware, software, and services to provide solutions, and in In fact, today, Rockwell is the most used technology in American manufacturing. We introduced this growth algorithm a few years ago, five to eight percent organic growth, a mixture of good secular trends, our ability to gain share, the impact of good growth in annual recurring revenue, and then a modest amount of growth due to acquisitions. For this year we're taking a prudent approach, but I think there's a very good chance that we are in this organic growth range this year. We take an intentional focus to the industries that we pursue, looking at growth, Rockwell's ability to win, and so as you can see, it's a good mix of traditional verticals that we've served for a long time, as well as growing presence in new verticals, of course, including data center, e-commerce, warehouse automation, and the like. Enabling technologies include software-defined automation, including good usage of artificial intelligence at all levels of the control stack. Robotics, both in terms of the equipment that we acquired from ClearPath, mobile robots, as well as good partnerships with the manufacturers of robot arms to be able to simplify the whole process of integrating automation systems that include the fixed automation that we're known for, but simplifying the integration with robotics, which are becoming more and more a factor in every vertical that we serve. We've also talked a lot in the last couple of years about expanding margins. We gave an overall company goal as well as corridors that we expected to achieve within our three business units. I'm happy with the progress that we've made but we're far from done and our approach spans multiple areas of productivity. It includes control of commercial expenses, direct material, indirects, manufacturing efficiency, and of course, in all businesses and functions, the adoption of artificial intelligence to be able to simplify workflows as well. And we're on offense. We talked a couple of quarters about spending, investing, two billion dollars over the coming years in plants, talent, and digital infrastructure in the service of expanding market share and expanding margins. This really should be thought of as that kind of next tier of margin expansion activities, deploying capital in the service of greater efficiencies and greater operating margins. And just to recap our full-year outlook, mid-single-digit growth on the top line, double-digit growth in earnings. And so with that, I'll take a seat, and we will take Andy's questions.

Thank you, Blake. So, Blake, while you get settled, maybe just a big picture question, like thoughts overall on what's going on in terms of the global automation cycle. I think you did your investor day. You showed a slide that showed significant investments in new capacity in North America, and we've talked about shoring, gaining some momentum. We're hearing about a growing emphasis on physical AI.

So, you interact with a lot of manufacturers around the globe can you comment on the broader environment is the automation cycle beginning to get you know i think you showed the slide with faster secular growth three to five percent as part of your five days so maybe talk about that yeah there's a there's a lot of positive sentiment out there uh it's manifesting itself currently uh primarily in the area of product sales and of course matthias represents software and control uh which is a a product-focused business, products and software. They had a strong first quarter, actually a little bit ahead of our expectations. But where we're seeing customers still waiting for a little more certainty is in the major capex across a broad swath of the verticals. Of course, enormous amounts of capital being deployed in areas like data center. Pharmaceutical continues to deploy capital with new capacity for GOP-1 and things like that. But across other verticals, a lot of the activity today is focused on products, modernizations, additional efficiency projects in existing plant versus building new.

Guy, I think you want to be conservative. You have a guidance of 2% to 6%, as you know, in terms of organic for this year. But you've talked about, and that's versus the 5% to 8% that you talked about for long term, but you've talked about this extra 1% to 2% share that Rockwell can deliver every year. So maybe talk about some of the initiatives you're working on to sort of get the 1% to 2% share. And are you getting that better-than-market 1% to 2% share now?

Yeah, so the 1% to 2% in that algorithm, first just for context, 3% to 5% market growth, 1% to 2% in terms of share gains, as well as expanding our served market, then 1% from annual recurring revenue, and then the additional 1% on average for acquisitions. The 1% to 2% share gains, given that we have the highest share in North America, and that's where a lot of the investment is, the math works in our favor. And we think we're doing a really nice job of not only touching base with the U.S.-based decision makers, but also working with the machinery builders, the engineering firms around the world to make sure that they're comfortable using us when their end users do have a preference for Rockwell. And so I think the share gains, particularly in Matthias' segment with controllers, over the last few years, certainly a lot of volatility, but we do think that we're taking modest share. I think you all know in this space share is a slow thing installed base matters a lot we've got obviously a great home field advantage in North America we're not complacent for a second but we don't look at share and make a big deal over what's happening you know in a month or every every quarter but we're very focused on making sure that it's going in the right direction over time. The other piece of that one to two percent is expanding our serve market and probably the best recent example of that is the entry into the mobile robots. We had this notion that customers would like to simplify the whole business of designing and commissioning and operating, you know, autonomous operations or semi-autonomous operations that span the fixed automation, the conveyors and the equipment and the mixers and the extruders and the ovens that we've controlled for a long time, along with the mobility as people are going to more intelligent ways to move material around, saving cost, that's expanded market, maybe $4 or $5 billion of expanded market that really none of our traditional competitors have. And so it's this opportunity to bring those together to integrate the hardware and the software that was exciting for us and seems to have captured the imagination of a lot of our customers.

I definitely want to get into shared a little bit with Matea, so I'll get there. But I just want to talk about your comments on sort of these large CapEx investments a little bit more, Blake. Because when I look at the one place where you report booked to Bill nowadays, you know, in life cycle services, you booked pretty solid, I thought, 1.16 times. So, you know, are you actually seeing some modest improvement in customer decision making? And then, you know, any sort of update on Q2? Like, obviously, you know, you just reported a couple of weeks ago, but anything, I think you said on the call that your bookings so far support your outlook, but is that still the case in the middle of February?

Yeah, so sentiment is probably slightly better than we had talked about, you know, certainly a quarter ago. I think in terms of the new capacity, we're going to book more new capacity business this year than last year by a fair bit. And I think you see that manifest itself in a healthy book-to-bill number in Life Cycle Services, 1.16. I want to hasten to add that when we get an order that ultimately adds to a customer's capacity in the U.S., it's spread pretty evenly across our business units. So don't assume that that's, you know, people-intensive, relatively low-margin business. Lifecycle Services certainly benefits from there, but a lot of that is logics coming out of Mateus' shop that's going to a machinery builder or is being specified by an engineering firm there. So we like the blend, and whether we produce the solution at the end of the day or whether it's one of our partners, that's just fine for us. I would also say that the increase in new capacity orders manifest itself in the growth numbers in North America, which was strongest in the first quarter, and we do expect North America to be our strongest region for the year. So there's some good news there, but as we said on the call, we're looking, you know, to see orders across a broader spectrum of verticals, and a lot of good sentiment. We want to see customers to vote with their wallets and start placing those orders.

I think that's fair, Blake, and it's a good time to get Mateus involved then, because, you know, some of the feedback I got is, well, the Q2 guides, you know, sequentially kind of more flattish, a little bit stagnant. but you know we know logics has done well you know over the last few quarters so is there anything you're seeing mateus in cell phone control that would suggest the environment is stagnant or is it maybe you know is logics continuing to improve like how's the environment in your world yeah no there's nothing that suggests it's stagnant uh you know you saw we had a a strong first quarter globally with over 20% year-over-year growth for Logix, and in particular, North America with over 25% year-over-year growth.

Importantly, we also saw growth in very important markets like Germany and Italy, machine builder markets that are important to the health of their business. sequentially we expect logics to continue to improve we are expecting you know low single digits and from q1 to q2 and for the full year in the mid single digit rain in line with with software and control we have a very good start of adoption of new product introductions you know including quite a a few in Logix, a whole new Logix controller with the L9 that's off to a great start, and a healthy pipeline of innovation that continues to come.

Mateusz, just one follow-up there. One of your competitors also talked about machine builders getting better. Did they just take their inventories down too much, like, and now they sort of have to come back? Like, what are you seeing from those guys?

I think, as we talked in the earnings call, So I think the whole de-stocking, we're beyond that. So we don't see that as any non-event at this point.

So Blake, we know you're extremely focused on building out AOR, right? And so that grew 7% year over year. You expect AOR to grow high single digits in 26. But it's below your double-digit aspirations and what you've done in the past. I think you mentioned that Plex is growing above average rates. So maybe you could talk about Plex and if you could have other software businesses that are growing a little bit more slowly or ultimately, when does ARR get back to double digits?

So, and I'll make a couple of comments, but since Plex and FIX and the software is also software in control, Mateus, I'm sure, will have some comments because he's been busy there. So the annual recurring revenue that grew 7% in the quarter is a mix of software and high-value services. Some of those services are things like cybersecurity contracts. Others are tech support so that people who use our products and our software can call or chat or, you know, use self-help to make sure their systems are well supported. The software in the first quarter actually grew higher than that average. So there were some delays in service contracts, renewals, and things like that that took that number down a little bit. But the software piece, including, and importantly, Plex, was actually higher than that figure. And I think in addition to some of the continued technology development for Plex, we're also seeing some, let's say, tweaks in the go-to-market that are bearing some early fruit. And Matthias has worked closely with our sales leadership, you know, to make sure that we're doing a really good job of representing that, looking for opportunities to build on customers that have a traditional base of Rockwell hardware and controllers, but also because Plex, you know, works just fine even when there's a competitive system underneath it, you know, to build that motion as well. And that's a really important part of the overall approach, the philosophy behind the acquisition of Plex in the first place is to recognize there's a big wide world out there.

And while we like being able to have a landing spot for the data that's born on our devices, we also like having a way in the door to customers that might use competitive control systems but are either already using Plex or are interested in Plex because our competitors don't have an answer for it. and so it's another way to win yeah absolutely uh you know plex had a very strong uh first quarter it was our highest uh quarter in terms of new bookings on record uh you know we are very focused on new bookings meaning new logos and expansion bookings in existing accounts You know, Plex is a platform that is exposed to an amount of data that no other company has the benefit of extracting from. So there are literally billions of transactions that flow through Plex every day, trillions across, you know, the spectrum of a year, across thousands of plants and that creates a moat that is very difficult to replicate by others and gives us a very strong advantage so you know and in terms of the go-to-market we are looking for ways to amplify including the development of partners that not only deploy the system but also help us sell the system domestically and internationally as well So, Matthias, we're very lucky to have you because over the last couple of weeks, obviously, there's been a little bit more questions on software, as you know.

And so, you know, maybe you can talk about that, right? The potential for AA models to disrupt your business. Like, let's just ask it, right? Rock, as you know, has a very strong hardware product. You integrate most of your software into the hardware. We just talked about Plex. It can sit by itself, right? So, you know, first, have you experienced, have you seen anybody, new AI players out there? And, you know, how do you position? I mean, you talked about mode already, but how do you position? Because, like, the market's saying, oh, there might be disruption. So, you know, maybe we could just hit that head on.

Yeah. So first I would start, Andy, by saying that we're always evaluating, and we will always be evaluating what can potentially impact, you know, our business. It's part of our planning process, and it's a forever journey. So there's never a dull moment. But specifically to the point you make on AI, I think there's a few things we would offer. So first, when you look at our software business, a good amount of that business is deeply integrated with physical systems, with the embedded systems. And there are many reasons for that, including things like cybersecurity and how we control and how we manage what runs in these devices. So a good example of that is software that's used to commission a logic system or a software that's used to commission operator interfaces. So for those we have, because the relationship with these systems and the proprietary nature of these systems, we have fairly strong grounds there. And if you think about another point I would make is a lot of the software that we have, it's actually running production. It's mission-critical software, deterministic transactions where you're looking for consistency. You're not looking for probabilistic outcomes in the majority of what the software is doing. So, you know, software that's used in life sciences, software that's used in food and beverage, in regulated industries where compliance matters. So a lot of that does require the execution because it's mission critical and it cannot live in a probabilistic environment. And the third piece that I would offer is if you think about it, you know, if your software is just data and a presentation or a user interface layer, you're very likely to be disrupted. What happens is a lot of our software has a very rich context that's not available in the public domain for all of these models to be trained on. So you see things like, for example, Entropic focusing on coding, or you see OpenAI focusing on creativity, you see Google focusing on large context and multimodal interactions. It's very unlikely that we'll see that being prioritized given the complexity of the market and, frankly, the size of that market there. But we'll continue to work through all of these and adjust as needed.

Yeah, if I can add, you know, as Mateus started, you know, we're always looking to challenge our hypotheses. You know, what are the things that we knew to be true a few years ago, and has anything changed to change our position on that? In the day, there was a point where looking at applications in the cloud was something that we looked at. And we'll continue to test this, but, you know, something that gives me encouragement is the amount of domain expertise that we have internally, people familiar, of course, with Rockwell's mission, you know, to look for efficiency, you know, from whatever means, including AI, but who also have history applying our technology at end customers. Our chief information officer deployed dozens of MES systems at large customers around the world. He's also currently in charge of looking at expanding our AI effort for internal productivity. And so we talked closely with him. This makes sense. You know, are there still things, as Mateus described, that are unique value from these applications that will incorporate AI within it, but still have a unique value? And it's a very affirmative answer in that respect.

The only maybe point I would also add is if you think about automation is bound to benefit from AI and the demand for automation is bound to increase largely because AI simplifies what it takes to consume automation technology and frankly allows us to automate things that were not previously practical to be automated.

So we expect the demand for automation to continue to expand as more and more AI is used in production systems. it's helpful mateys so we're going to open up to the audience in a second uh let me ask one more question but just preparing in case anybody wants to ask a question so let me just ask on pricing blake um you know i think maybe pricing is a little misunderstood for you guys because you only report half the product space business in terms of pricing so when you say one percent really two percent on products but with all that being said i think you know you've come a long way your pricing evolution over the last few years so maybe you can talk about that and you know do you my understanding is in the past maybe you offered some discounts to your large good customers are you

kind of closing those loopholes like how do you think about pricing sort of moving forward sure so you know we had a system that yielded good price for many many years but we found particularly during the supply chain shortages back 2021-22, that for significant step change disruptions, we needed to make some changes in our processes. In the past, when we had, you know, 10 years ago when we had price changes, we'd have to wait for the contracts, the annual contracts with our customers to expire, and so you weren't able to get price into the market as fast as you needed to in the face of those major changes. We've changed that process so that you get more or less immediate price realization when you introduce those prices, working closely, of course, with our channel partners. And then also in the special case, which is becoming maybe a little bit more of the general case with respect to tariffs, again, processes that allow us to have a very transparent approach to increasing pricing. As you said, we report the price that's attributable to our products, which, you know, is still a little bit more than half of our total business. We're getting price in our software renewals and in our engineer-to-order or configure-to-order offerings from lifecycle services or from that portion of intelligent devices, but that's just a natural part of the quotation process. So there's price that's coming out there, but you're correct in that the pricing that we talk about, if you just look at the percentage of our products, is a little bit higher than we say. I think there's a discipline of that. There's also other aspects of pricing. So we've talked a lot over the last year or so about the long tail of our SKUs and the opportunity for some surgical pricing there on items that are, let's say, more receptive to that. And so that's additional price, you know, as part of our comprehensive productivity programs. I think the overall organization recognizes that for a company that's differentiated like us that's growing that pricing is a vibrant part of the overall effort to you know continue to grow top line of course but also to be able to appropriately expand our margins it's helpful any questions from the audience anyone hey thanks for making the time um i just had a quick one so i think back at the end of 2024 you announced a partnership with nvidia on your emulate 3d to integrate Omniverse for a digital twin we saw this year at CES Siemens took

the stage they announced what seemed like a much deeper collaboration to develop what they call the AI software for industrial automation I just wanted to understand like how does your offering differ to their accelerator offering why is it that the collaboration seems to be much deeper with Siemens. Did NVIDIA pick them over you? Or, yeah, I just wanted to understand the positioning there.

No, we continue to work well with NVIDIA. I think our partner's ecosystem, whether it's NVIDIA or Microsoft or the really hundreds of other technology partners, is second to none. Siemens' focus is a little bit more on the product design. So when you look at PLM, EDA applications, compute intensive, and so I think that's why NVIDIA is particularly interested there because these are large requirements for compute in the product design. Now, obviously, we compete with Siemens and others in the factory design, but our Emulate 3D product, which, as you said, uses an API to be able to have photorealistic images rendered in Omniverse. We're doing that with a lot of customers. It's a growing motion directly versus the competitors like Siemens and winning in an impressive number of cases. Maybe talk a little bit more about Emulate 3D and how it fits into that overall vision of a software-defined architecture.

Yeah, Emulate 3D is a very important component of a software-defined system because it's where you train the system. And a lot of the future workflows on how systems are commissioned in the future rely on the digital twin model and the validations through that. Our partnerships with Emulate 3D are strong with NVIDIA, but they go well beyond NVIDIA. We partner with people like ANSYS, for example, for very specific capabilities that are needed and fluid dynamics and so on. Our relationship with NVIDIA is also beyond Omniverse. As you probably heard us in our investor day, we have been collaborating strongly on the deployment of small language models as part of runtime systems for optimization of some production problems. And because our stack is in the cloud and we have access to compute and services, we've been able to kind of go to market fairly quickly with capabilities like that.

Any other questions?

Sorry, could I just follow up on that? Over in Europe, like, there's been a bit of a kerfuffle in the market because one of the elevator companies, Schindler, said that they had made their own digital twin of an elevator because Dasso Systems, their previous digital twin partner for eight years, was unable to do so. This seems a bit like hyper-verbally, like, I don't know about you, Elevator doesn't seem like that complicated of a product. You know, I'm sure Dasso could probably do a digital twin. I just wanted to understand, like, is this at all something that you've heard of that you think are customers pushing back against you saying, like, we're praying for per seat pricing? Do you think that that's necessarily fair? Like, you guys should see your costs come down of developing software because you can now use AI to do so. How do those conversations work? What does the pricing look like? Is it still going to be a per-seat model in the future, if it is? And, yeah, I just wanted to get your thoughts on that.

So I'm not sure I caught all of that. But if the question is about adoption of digital twins...

Yeah, let me just clarify. Basically, Dasso got dropped as a digital twin partner, and Schindler, the Lyft company, said they're making their own. They literally said they're vibe-coding their own digital twin. Could a customer come to you and say that? Probably not, because you guys do complicated work for them. but I imagine the pricing conversation has a little bit more flex these days because you should be seeing software development costs come down if you use AI in a reasonable way. How does that look? Is it still going to be a per-seat pricing model in the future?

So I'll make a couple of comments, and hopefully this gets at the heart of it. I mean, we are seeing significant interest across almost every vertical that we serve in creating digital twins of their operations. In a lot of cases, that was used to accelerate and shorten the commissioning process. It really got a boost during COVID when you couldn't have people physically from the machine builder and the customer and the technology supplier all physically in the same place. But it's moving beyond just the commissioning event so that customers can get benefit by continuing to de-bottleneck their processes to test or gamify, you know, different configurations, whether it's elevators or it's bottling facilities, to be able to do that. And we've taken an open approach to this. When we made the acquisition that really got us big time into this area, first with emulate 3d as the technology and then calypso followed by knowledge lens with people who were data scientists who could have those conversations with customers we recognized it wasn't always going to be applied into you know shops that had just Rockwell hardware so we've got those abilities to create digital twins when there's fanic robots and Siemens controllers and so on Schneider you know in that because we recognize it is a multi-vendor world but to be able to come in and to be able to compete head to head with those solutions providers as well as the consultants because it still requires the not only the technology tools but the domain expertise we were told over and over by customers that you know the the technologies we talked about software-defined automation including AI integrated robotics they still have to be directed by somebody who knows what you're actually trying to produce and how manufacturing works and that's Rockwell's differentiator so yes you know with competition you know that software you know pricing will come down the key piece the part that's going to save the money and make you know give you the ROI is having an adequate tool but somebody who knows what they're doing with it and can work well not only with the corporate engineering resource but also where it gets deployed in the field. And I think that's our special place.

Any other questions? All right, well, we're quickly running out of time, Blake. So let me just ask you a couple more questions about the market. Like maybe just let's go to growth by region because what's interesting is you've talked about North America being strong, But you've seen EMEA and Asia-Pacific turn positive over the last few quarters. So, you know, does that continue? And then you're usually strong in Latin America, but it's been a little weak lately. So, I mean, is that mining-related on Comeback or something like that? Any comments?

So Asia after North America in terms of growth, good growth, India, Southeast Asia, Taiwan. Obviously, with all the chip activity, we have some very strong customers there.

Latin America a little weaker primarily due to Mexico Brazil comparatively stronger they also had a tough comp in that a year ago first quarter they were the one region that had growth got it and then Mateus like one of the keys I think for margin for Rockwell is your segment it is the highest margin segment right so you got this question I'm pricing but you know it seems like you You've been focused on execution. Margins have come back up again here. Logix is doing well. So what gets you to sort of that 34% margin versus the concerns out there that all of a sudden you're going to lose pricing and margin? Like, how do you think about that?

Yeah, you know, as you know, it's a combination of volume as well as productivity remains a priority for our segment and for our company. So on the volume piece, this segment has strong incrementals, and we see a strong pipeline of innovation that will continue to help us propel that. On the productivity side, all the things that Blake talked about, they are as applicable to the company as they are to the very specific segment of software control. So things like what we're doing to improve our cost to produce, use Rockwell on Rockwell to continue to improve what it takes to make it. Logistics, indirects, direct material, all of the work we're engaged in right now within sourcing, those are real opportunities for software and control that we'll continue to expand on and help us drive improvement.

We talked about in Singapore, which is primarily a software and control plant, 30% improvement in labor efficiency there. We're applying a lot of the same things, the rock-on-rock concept in Twinsburg, well ahead of when, you know, we had the new plant up and running that we announced in southeastern Wisconsin.

Would you guys say you're, like, kind of halfway through third inning, seventh inning, like, in terms of if we're improving productivity at something like software and control?

Well, this is a game that never ends, and I'd say we're still early innings. We came out to a good start, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars over the last couple of years in productivity. We're driving it into a repeatable process as part of our Rockwell operating model, but it never ends, and, you know, to be able to offset inflation plus some, you know, is an expectation every year.

I just want to ask you specifically about discrete markets real quickly in the sense that, you know, auto's doing fine for you now, I think, like mid-single-digit growth overall. You know, can you continue to broaden out, you bought Cubic for data centers, can you continue to broaden out that business to drive more discrete growth? You know, because people think of you as auto, but you're so much more than that.

Yeah, well, also in discrete, e-commerce, warehouse automation, which includes a little bit of data center, 60%, 70% growth. So, you know, that's helping discrete as well. Specifically within data centers, the main areas of our business are the power distribution, largely due to the cubic acquisition made a couple years ago, and the growing trend of people moving to industrial logic equipment like logics from their traditional distributed digital control, the DDC control that was used for a long time there, and we're seeing wider adoption by the month in using logics there. So those are probably the two primary applications in use of DDC, moving to logics in the building management systems primarily. hybrid markets pretty solid food and beverage is more your sort of total solutions that sort of driving that business now right yeah again modernizations going into existing facilities that may or may not already have Rockwell control systems adding software adding fixed predictive maintenance systems adding cyber security contracts you know those are large projects adding AMRs we're seeing some projects I there's a recent one in home and personal care where, you know, over $20 million total project with two-thirds of that coming initially from the mobile robots. So it's having, it's making an impact.

Just last quick question. I have asked you this for the last five years, so it's a good time series. So what are the top two or three innovations and structural changes affecting your company over the next five years?

Are there any emerging industry trends that are perhaps being overlooked in the kind of discourse so I'll give you two you know that we've talked about a little more recently and then one that hasn't changed so software-defined automation and Mateus is really spearheading that integrated robotics simplifying the overall automation project and then something that I talked about not five years ago but almost 10 years ago when I came into this role about the combination of understanding a customer's problems the domain expertise still matters combining the technology and its traditional sources of technology along with new ways to win and simplification of a customer's automation project, the design, the commissioning, the operation. And I really think that simplification is going to sort out the winners and the losers over the next 10 years. I talked about that over nine years ago, and I think it's still as relevant today as it was then. Thanks Blake and Matthijs, appreciate it. Yeah, thank you.