Earnings Call Transcript - XNSE:MAXHEALTH 2026-11-03

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Max Healthcare Institute Limited Earnings Conference Call. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mrs. Suraj from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, Suraj.

Anup Bajari, Head of Investor Relations

Thank you, Raya. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on Max Healthcare Q2 NH1 FY27 Earnings Conference Call. We have with us Mr. Avaishoy, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Yogesh Karim, Group Director and Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Keshav Gupta, Group Director, Growth, M&A, and Business Planning. We will begin the call with opening remarks from the management, following which we will have the forum open for an interactive Q&A session. Before we start, I would like to point out that some statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature, and a disclaimer to this effect has been included in the earnings presentation shared with you earlier. I would now like to invite Avai to make his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Very good morning, and thank you for joining us today for Max Healthcare's second quarter and first half of FY27 earnings call. We gained momentum in the second quarter with revenue growing by 20%, operating EBITDA by 18% and PASS by 10%. Demand for quality healthcare remains strong across the hospital network with occupancy holding steady at 77% despite a 14% year-on-year increase in operational bed capacity. Occupancy and revenue across all three brownfield expansions Namely, Max Nanavati in Mumbai, Max Mohali, and Max Smart at Saakir, Delhi, have ramped up very well and in line with our expectations. At Max Smart, the newly commissioned 260 beds achieved EBITDA break-even within three months of operations, being Q2, and are now witnessing high occupancy levels. However, the initial ramp-up of these beds did create a drag on EBITDA of Saket complex during Q2. Excluding the Saket complex, revenue grew by 20% and EBITDA by 25%. We expect to commission the remaining 140 beds after Diwali Puja. Encouraged by these quick ramp-ups, we continue to explore opportunities to add capacity at our existing hospitals. In this regard, the Board has approved an investment of Rs. 415 crores towards addition of 209 brownfield beds at Max Noida, Max Vishali, and BLK Max, along with an MLCP multi-level car park tower at BLK at the cost of approximately Rs. 85 crores. This is a part of the 450 crores. Most of this capacity is expected to become available over the next 18 to 24 months. During the quarter, 202 brownfield beds were added to the operational capacity, mainly at Max Mart, Max Lucknow, Max Noida, and Max Dwarka. Services have also commenced at the new oncology block at Max Dwarka, which will enable addition of around 20 beds to the hospital in Q3 FY27. Following the rights issue by Kalinga Hospital Limited, our shareholding has increased to 66%. A new leadership team has taken charge of Mike Bhubaneshwar, and clinical teams have been added across gastroenterology, GI surgery, neurosurgery, and orthopedics. The hospital reported a revenue of Rs. 38 crores and EBITDA of Rs. 4 crores for the quarter. We have commenced renovation of the facility, and the first part will start rolling out towards the end of the year. Now, moving on to the Q2 performance highlights. Average occupancy for the network was 77%, similar to last year, despite a 14% increase in operational bed capacity. Occupied bed days were up by 13% year-on-year and 7% quarter-on-quarter. Average revenue per patient for the quarter stood at Rs. 2.31 lakhs, growing by 8% year-on-year. This growth was partly driven by a decline in institutional bed share to 29% from 34% last year. Network gross revenue stood at 3,219 crores compared to 2,692 crores in Q2 last year and 2,982 crores in the previous quarter. This reflects an increase of 20% year-on-year and 8% quarter-on-quarter. Due to the discontinuation of select high-value chemotherapy drugs for institutional patients as a result of CGHS rate revisions last year, the share of oncology for inpatient revenues dropped to 21% from 26% in Q2 FY26. Excluding oncology, gross revenue grew by 25% and ARPP grew by 11% year-on-year. International patient revenue was Rs 307 crores. Registering significant growth of 33% year-on-year and now accounts for 10% of health care revenues from hospitals. Digital revenue from online marketing activities, web-based appointments, and digital lead management was Rs. 1099 crores, accounting for approximately 34% of overall revenue. Website traffic crossed 1.14 crore sessions during the quarter, growing by 44% year-on-year. Operating EBITDA for the quarter stood at 820 crores versus 694 crores in Q2 FY26 and Rs. 704 crores in the previous quarter, reflecting growth of 18% year-on-year and a significant growth of 16% quarter-on-quarter, while EBITDA per bed grew by 4% year-on-year to Rs. 77 lakhs per annum. Operating EBITDA margin was 26.8%, similar to Q2 FY26, despite 14% increase in operational bed capacity, reflecting an improvement of around 200 basis points over the trailing quarter. Profit after tax for the network was Rs. 448 crores against Rs. 406 crores in Q2 last year, normalized for one-time tax gain of Rs. 149 crores. And Rs. 357 crores in the previous quarter, reflecting a growth of 10% year-on-year and 26% quarter-on-quarter. The network generated free cash flow of Rs. 500 crores during the quarter, of which Rs. 292 crores was invested in ongoing capacity expansion and projects. And Rs. 195 crores was dispersed towards dividend. Net debt for the network stood at Rs. 2,369 crores compared to 2,384 crores at the end of June 2026, while the net debt to EBITDA ratio continued to remain below 1. Continuing efforts to support local communities, we provided free treatment to over 57,000 patients from economically weaker sections of the society, worth Rs. 90 crores at hospital tariff, reflecting growth of 47% year-on-year. Both our strategic business units continue to deliver steady growth in revenue and profitability. Max at Home reported revenue of Rs. 86 crores, reflecting robust year-on-year growth of 37%. It offers 16 specialized service lines across 15 cities, with over 56% repeat transactions. Max Lab reported revenue of Rs. 66 crores, reflecting year-on-year growth of 24%. It provides services in over 60 cities and served over 7 lakh patients during the quarter. Now, moving on to the status of our expansion projects coming on-stream over the next few years. The balanced 205 beds at Max Nanavati and Max Smart Sakeh Delhi will be opened post-Diwali Puja. 100 beds at Max Lucknow in the existing 460-bed facility will be commissioned over the next two quarters. 85 beds at Max Noida will be commissioned by December 2027. 500 beds at Sector 56 Gurgaon. We expect to start phase commissioning of this facility by the end of this financial year. 250 beds at Bhuvaneswar. Renovation of existing facilities underway, and we expect phased completion over the next 12 to 15 months, with the first part of the renovation being delivered by the end of this current calendar year. 100 beds at Max Nagpur. Project work continues to be on track, and we expect commissioning by December 2027. 400 beds at Zirakpur, Mohali. Project is on schedule, and we expect commissioning it by December 2027. 200 beds at Pritampura project is on track, and we expect commissioning in FY2029. 400 beds at Patpurgansh, we expect commissioning by end of FY2029. 260 beds at Max Dwarka, we are putting up a new tower over there, Brownfield, which is the next phase, because Dwarka hospital is running at full capacity, will be commissioned by FY30. 270 beds, additional beds at Max Nanavati in Phase 2. Project work has started and we will be commissioning it by FY30. 450 beds at Puna. We have received the IOD. Project is expected to be commissioned by FY30. 200 beds at Max Vishali, which is the new tower being created, Brownfield, over there. Project work is underway and we expect commissioning again by FY2030. Thank you. In Lucknow, Phase 1, we are awaiting formal environmental clearance and building plans to commence construction activity at the site. We expect to commission by Phase 1, FY30. And finally, moving on to the overview of the company's performance for the first half of financial year 2027, total bed capacity was around 6,200, a growth of 20% year-on-year. Network gross revenue stood at 6,200 crores, reflecting growth of 18% year-on-year. Operating EBITDA stood at 1,524 crores, registering growth of 17% year-on-year, while operating EBITDA per bed grew by 4% year-on-year to Rs. 74 lakhs. Operating EBITDA margin was 25.9%, similar to H1FY26. This is despite total bed capacity increasing by 20% year-on-year. Profit after tax for the network was Rs. 805 crores against Rs. 750 crores last year, normalized for one-time tax gain of Rs. 149 crores, reflecting a growth of 7% a year earlier. In the first half, we generated Rs. 897 crores of free cash flow from operations. After interest tax, working capital changes, and routine capex, 629 crores was deployed towards ongoing. Expansion projects and facility upgrades at new units. Rupees 386 crores was spent towards the acquisitions of Kalinga Hospital Limited, Bhubaneshwar, and Yerwara Properties Private Limited, Pune, and Rupees 195 crores was distributed as dividend. With this, we open the floor for any questions you may have.

Operator

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and 1 on the attached tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. To ask questions, please press star and one. The first question is from Toshif from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.

Toshif, Analyst — BNP Paribas

Good afternoon, and thanks for the opportunity. My first question is related to disempowerment of hospitals mentioned in the footnote. Can you tell us how many hospitals has been disempowerment, and which are the ones, and do you further plan to increase the numbers, and what are the rationale behind this?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

I mean, it's a normal trajectory, the more mature hospitals, the older hospitals, you see them disempaneling.

Toshif, Analyst — BNP Paribas

I just want to understand, are these decisions taken voluntarily overnight by any hospitals? And would you seek empowerment of the upcoming Gurugram hospitals, of CCHS and ECHS?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Yes, we will seek of the new hospital and, you know, like I said, of the older hospitals. You de-panel. For example, most of the hospitals which are going for brownfield, they do, you know, close to no institutional business, and once the brownfield new capacity comes in, you start impaneling and you start doing institutional business as well.

Toshif, Analyst — BNP Paribas

That's helpful. My second question is related to the doctor attrition rate and the dynamics of Gurugram market. With one of your competitors recently commercializing the new hospital, but we haven't seen a good attrition of star doctors in the market. Just want to check your thoughts. Have we started talking to doctors and what gives you the confidence that once we commercialize Gurugram, we'll be able to go to good clinicians at a very quick time.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Well, see, I mean, clinician iteration happens up to maybe 1% of the clinician's iteration per year, which may go up by a very slight amount or not. Do keep in mind, it's not as if so many hospitals are coming up. You already have plenty of hospitals. We have plenty of hospitals. Anybody who is the head of admin in a hospital wants to head a hospital in four to five years. If you are a senior consultant, you want to head a program in a few years and so on and so forth. You have to provide career progression as well. The fact is, you know, if you don't grow and if you don't set up more hospitals, then your next line will go and join competition. I think the fact that we are putting up our own hospital in Gurugram and other places expanding in Delhi NCR allows us to sort of retain and give opportunities to the second line as well, right? I mean, we have, keep in mind, we have 14 facilities in Delhi NCR and we have over 4,000 clinicians working for us on a full-time basis here.

Toshif, Analyst — BNP Paribas

Just the last one, if I may, what is the potential impact on sales and EBITDA on the recent trade margin cap imposed by the government on non-scheduled trusts? Any broad number would be helpful.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

No, we're still working it out.

Toshif, Analyst — BNP Paribas

Thanks. I'll get back in the queue.

Operator

The next question is from Neha Manpuria from Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Neha Manpuria, Analyst — Bank of America

Yeah, thanks for taking my question. Abhay, you mentioned that the commissioning of SMART had some impact on, you know, the Sakeet complex. You know, based on your understanding, you know, how long do you think it would take for Sakeet to normalize? And, you know, given that we have a fair bit of brownfield capacity that is coming up, you know, do you think you could see some sort of disruption like these in our other facilities that we need to account for?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

No, see, I've always guided to the fact that unlike a greenfield, a brownfield, you know, a greenfield may take six months to one year to break even. You know, typically we guide to one year in a greenfield. A brownfield breaks even within the first quarter itself. And I'm always guided to that fact, right? When you come up with expanded capacity anywhere, you'll have a preoperative expense over there because firstly you'll hire employees. You may not be hiring senior management or perhaps very senior level consultants or clinicians, but you do hire everybody else. So before you commission, you have, you're carrying a cost, and after you commission, first your occupancy ramps up, and, you know, then the quality of your revenue ramps up, and then the EBITDA ramps up. You know, the first quarter, you break even within a brownfield, and we've seen that, you know, Mohali was the first to open, we broke even in the first quarter, and then it ramped up, similar was the sort of... So, you know, last quarter was really the first quarter, full quarter of its operations. And although it ramped up beautifully by the end of the quarter, I mean, you know, there was a bit of drag in that complex because of which. So, it's just that one quarter, this thing that you have in a brownfield.

Neha Manpuria, Analyst — Bank of America

Okay.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

There is a drag. So what is the extent of the drag? That you have EBITDA growth overall of about 20%, but if I remove that complex, it has 25%. But by next quarter, it comes back to normalcy, right? Because, you know, whatever drag has to happen, the maximum burden you face is pre-operative and then immediately upon operations.

Neha Manpuria, Analyst — Bank of America

Okay, understood. So, basically, you mean that because this is still in ramp-up mode, that dragged down the profitability?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, what happens is, let's say we open 250 beds, okay, in the first month, you'll occupy 50 beds, second month, you'll occupy another maybe 100, 150 beds, and by, you know, the third month or end of third month or fourth month, you're already occupying 250 beds. I mean, that's why we're doing Diwali Pooja and starting additional 150 beds there, right? But all of the 150 beds then start giving to the bottom line, and more and more and more. Your EBITDA trajectory sort of surpasses your revenue trajectory and even all your operating leverage you get.

Neha Manpuria, Analyst — Bank of America

Yeah, so, you know, to your point that the, you know, EBITDA margin ramp-up should happen, let's say, in second or third quarter post-commissioning, so we should see this drag probably normalize by March. Would that be a fair understanding?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

To a large extent, already it'll be normalized, but yeah, you will see, I mean, like I said, look, you have a drag when your occupancy is 50 beds out of 400, right? Your drag, when your occupancy is 250 bed plus out of the 400 additional that you put, then your drag is that much less. I mean, you're already hitting very high numbers. What you're seeing is a stigma of the entire quarter.

Neha Manpuria, Analyst — Bank of America

Understood. Okay, that is a...

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

I mean, this is a hockey stick growth. No, you see, imagine it like a hockey stick.

Neha Manpuria, Analyst — Bank of America

Okay. My second question, you know, just on Mumbai, you know, if I were to see the, you know, bird edition that you give by, you know, state in Maharashtra, is it fair to assume that for the phase to the block that needs to be taken down, that's been taken down, that's why the ramp up that we are supposed to see in Nanavati, that's not reflected in Maharashtra's operational bed?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

That's right. So those beds are discontinued and the balance of 40 or 50 beds which have to start in Nanavati will start at the end of the Puja. Do keep in mind the quality of the beds which are being brought down are basically economy class. So the quality of the beds is not very significant.

Neha Manpuria, Analyst — Bank of America

Okay. And my last question.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

But yes, Mumbai has already passed that point of the revenue ramp up and the EBITDA ramp up.

Neha Manpuria, Analyst — Bank of America

Okay. My last question on the, I know you said that you're still assessing the, you know, onco margin cap, but broadly there's been a fair bit of noise around, you know, the drug devices, consumables, et cetera, you know, and the margins made by hospitals. You know, if you could give us any comments on, you know, what you think is being misunderstood or, you know, how would you probably put forward your position on this, you know, that would be very helpful.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

I think the position of the sector has been put across in the court. The matter is subjudice, and I think it's quite clear what the position of... The hospital providers is, and so is the position of the government. So I think, you know, more than what you hear in the media on so on and so forth, I would urge everybody to actually see what the pleadings of the government and what the statements were made, whether it's the government or the hospital sector. I think the hospital sector pretty much stands by the fact that the overall profitability, the median net profit of the entire sector, if I was to look at last quarter's numbers, is about 9%, if I'm not mistaken. In the capital-intensive sector, but historically, it's been a product-based pricing industry rather than a services-based pricing industry. So we'll have to possibly recalibrate that going forward, depending on the pulls and pushes, but I think this is where it is. But like I said, the matter is, I think many, many wise heads will be opining on it.

Neha Manpuria, Analyst — Bank of America

That's helpful. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from Damian TK Rai from HSBC. Please go ahead.

Damian TK Rai, Analyst — HSBC

Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is regarding your comment on the spareness change. So, as you said, you will keep on evaluating the And I think during the quarter, you reported the revenue contribution from this channel is around 18.5%, 300 basis points lower than the previous year. So will this be the label of revenue share which you intend to maintain or there will be volatility depending on how you see the change in their mixed part?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

No, you know, we are reacting to as and when new capacities come up, those capacities will take on CGHS, institutional business, etc. And as some capacities mature, they will be moving away from that business, you know. Some part of this is also revenue reduction is due to discontinuation of high-value drugs as well of oncology that you see are actually a result of CGHS, right? So you see that percentage reduction over there due to that as well.

Damian TK Rai, Analyst — HSBC

Sure. And earlier, you mentioned that you would obviously like to bring down exposure to the institutional channel. So, any number you have in mind where you intend to move ahead?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

No, no. I don't think there's any intention to reduce the exposure to the institutional channel. The best case for us, I mean, is that if we increase capacity in a particular place, then we are able to serve both the businesses. But what happens is automatically as capacity, somewhere where there is capacity pressure, automatically your lower RPOP business starts getting, or the lower sort of ARPP business starts getting distilled. But the best case scenario is if you can keep increasing capacity over there. I mean, I'll give you a very specific example of the hospital in Mumbai, where, you know, there was no institutional business, but because you did a capacity expansion there, you were able to put up more capacity, you were able to accommodate it. So we started, we impaneled that hospital. Whereas in some other hospital in BLK, where there's capacity pressure, you've depaneled. So, you know, that sort of, this thing will continue.

Damian TK Rai, Analyst — HSBC

And this impanelment, disempanelment, that could be, again, case-on-case basis, right? And I just want to understand, say, you have disempaneled PGHs from SGLK Hospital. So, in the future, if you want to re-impanel, will that be a possibility or how that goes?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

We haven't de-impaneled them. We've got ourselves de-impaneled. You're on an impanel, okay, and you choose not to or whatever, then you apply to them and you get yourself de-paneled from it. And yes, I mean, as in when we expand that particular facility, we may... At that stage, re-impanel ourselves, but let's say in the case of BLK, you're only adding about 85-watt beds, so you may not do that, 64 beds, you may not do that with a large capacity that you're sort of adding on.

Damian TK Rai, Analyst — HSBC

Understood. My second question is on the regulatory headwinds, which we are seeing for oncology drugs specifically, I think in last year as well as the recent development. So, while the matter is under the court, what do you think like which other segments can really help you to offset the impact of these regulatory headwinds in oncology? Whether you will be preferring some other sector over oncology as your key driver.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

We don't, you know, we react to the burden of diseases in the market, right? And you've seen, it's not as if other diseases are not growing, they've all grown by 25% year on year. Right? So growth has been, eventually you have inventory over there. Although you have a loss in revenue, it's not as if you have a reduction in occupied bed days to that same extent. Right? I mean, I don't see that as something which is going to be impacting. Okay, so the top four or five segments generally we call Congo, so that proportion should continue to increase, say some part getting offset by others. Please understand. No, no, you need to put this in perspective. You know, we have inventories, we have various specialities in patients. When a patient comes at the ER, a patient comes for elective surgery, we don't ask him, are you for oncology? Okay, are you for cardiac? So cardiac patient, please wait, and the oncology patient, please sort of, you'll get an accelerated sort of admission path or whatever. It doesn't operate like that, right? It's at the point, whichever bed is available. Now, if... We haven't seen reduction in occupied bed days of any particular specialty.

Damian TK Rai, Analyst — HSBC

Sure. Okay. Thank you for your response. That's helpful. I'll get back in the queue.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Karan Vora from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Karan Vora, Analyst — Goldman Sachs

Thank you for taking my question. My first question is with respect to the Gurgaon greenfield, which is expected to come online by the end of the year. So just wanted to get a sense on how many, like, are we expected to, like, in the phase one, do all the 500 beds or will it be split? And what could be the EBITDA impact from the same? Any breakeven timelines, etc. you would like to highlight?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Yes, we typically start with 150 to 200 beds. Okay, ramp up, hit break even, and then we try to open more beds, right? You've seen a similar sort of this thing in Dwarka as well. There is no benefit in opening all 500 beds if you don't have day one occupancy. You can't have day one occupancy of 500 beds. It doesn't operate like that. There's still a ramp up period. You know, we've had, when we opened Dwarka 300 beds, we had an EBITDA loss of 30 crores. You can estimate, you know, I don't know if I was to draw a line in the sand, 40 to 50 crores. We are still working that number, but it should not be more than that.

Karan Vora, Analyst — Goldman Sachs

And the second question is with respect to CGHS. So, you mentioned that we have successfully, you know, done this strategy of kind of taking in CGHS patients in new beds. So, I just wanted to get a sense on, you know, in such instances, how do you ensure that the patient perception of the premiumness of hospital doesn't get impacted when, you know, a lot of CGHS kind of patients come through? Or even for that matter, in some of the hospitals where we have like north of 75-80% occupancy, how do you, you know, ensure all the, like, because it means that the hospitals are completely full, right? So, how do you ensure that the service levels as well as the patient perception not get impacted because of such high occupancy?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

I don't understand. I mean, you know, when you open a new hospital, I mean, if I had occupancy of 500 beds, I'd probably open the 500 beds. When you open a new hospital, you don't have occupancy of 500 beds. Right? So, I mean, first and foremost, what you do is you take business. Lower RPOP business, lower clinical mix, lower this thing, whatever else it is. And the perception doesn't get affected by... I think, you know, 40% of our business is up country.

Keshav Gupta

Karan, so there is no intent in Pacific Pacific to have a different perception creation for the different patient pool. System is neutral to which the patient is from. What happens is that when the hospital is full, because of the economic benefit, we kind of de-balance the full hospital, as I said, let us say.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Automatically, they start distilling.

Karan Vora, Analyst — Goldman Sachs

Got it. And just one follow-up here. So, the empanelment, when we disempanel, but the empanelment in itself will also be of a certain period, right? So, maybe a one-year or a two-year empanelment. So, once we empanel ourselves to or any particular hospital to that CGHS scheme, what is the minimum time frame for which we have to abide by it?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

No, no, it's a six-month. It's a six-month evergreening process that you have. You sign an agreement and you keep evergreening it every six months.

Yogesh Sareen, CFO

Yeah, and you can give a one-month notice, right? So, if you have a listener panel, you can give a one-month notice, both sides.

Karan Vora, Analyst — Goldman Sachs

Got it. Helpful. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Rahul Jivani from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead.

Rahul Jivani, Analyst — IIFL

Yeah, thanks, sir, for taking my question. With respect to the two green fields, which is Sector 56, Burgao, and Hyattpur, Mohali, for 56, Burgao, you talked about 40 to 50 crore kind of an EBITDA loss. So, would that clause be just in the initial few quarters, or you would expect this drag for the full year of FY28? And similarly, if you can also talk about what kind of an EBITDA drag we should build in from, Mojali and FY29.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Normally, we typically guide to a one-year break-even. We broke even in six months in Dwarka. I guess the answer will be somewhere there. But Dwarka, we had a 300 bed in Delhi. It had, like I said, a 30-35 crore EBITDA loss. This is cumulative peak loss of EBITDA.

Rahul Jivani, Analyst — IIFL

Okay, sure. And Girakpur-Moharly should also have a similar kind of a loss in FY29 or would you expect that number to be slightly lower?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Lower, lower, much lower. And that's... 30 crore.

Rahul Jivani, Analyst — IIFL

Okay, okay. That's it for me. Thank you.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

We'll work out the numbers, more precise numbers, but roughly that. You see, we get to know we have a better idea when we start onboarding teams. Right? When you start onboarding teams of clinicians, etc., that's the time you know what the trough is, what the preoperative expense is, and what your day one expenditure is going to be.

Rahul Jivani, Analyst — IIFL

Sure, sure, sure. And just on, let's say, this impact of the…

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Yeah, if you're opening something in December next year, 12 months down the line, we haven't started onboarding the teams, right? So, I don't know what the cost of the team is. So, therefore, I'm not trying to be evasive, but, you know, I actually don't have a… I can only give you a line in the sand answer at this stage.

Rahul Jivani, Analyst — IIFL

Sure, sure, sure. So the second question is with respect to the impact from the discontinuation of chemotherapy drugs. So that impact started from third quarter of last year. So with the impact and was rising in third quarter of this year, would you expect this top-line growth, which we delivered up around 20%, to accelerate further going into third quarter and fourth quarter?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Well, it happened in, yeah, that should be the case, because you're of a lower base.

Rahul Jivani, Analyst — IIFL

And that would also be aided by the fact that you would have some of these incremental brownfield and greenfield expansions coming and helping in too.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

That's true.

Rahul Jivani, Analyst — IIFL

So, okay. That's it for me. So, thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from Dara Ganatra from

Dara Ganatra, Analyst — UTIPF

Thank you, sir, for taking my question. My question is, largely on this trade margin cap that has come out, so what I wanted to understand is, what is the kind of share of pharmacy revenue and EBITDA, share of pharmacy in both revenue and EBITDA, and within that, how much would be medical oncology?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Repeat the question, please.

Dara Ganatra, Analyst — UTIPF

What is the share of pharmacy in your revenues in Epicta? And within that, if you can also highlight how much would be the medical oncology part of it? So, excluding the surgeries and all on the oncology part, how much would be the pharmacy share?

Yogesh Sareen, CFO

Generally, chemotherapy is generally 30% of the overall oncology revenue. Right? Now, within that, the... You know, there's a mix of, you know, some ORC drugs and monopoly drugs, where there's no impact of this price tap, etc., right? So, that proportion, we have to really, you know, once we get these MRUs, revise MRPs, we'll be able to kind of see what the impact, etc., is. But that's what the story is. So, basically, you know, 30% is the chemotherapy, and within that, there's a share of, you know, ORCs and the monopolies, and then there's a share of, you know, junkie drugs. Monopoly and ORCs will not have any impact of this one, right?

Dara Ganatra, Analyst — UTIPF

Hmm.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

And CGHS, etc. has already impacted happened last year. The CGHS impact on oncology, I mean, that's already Bait India. That's already so many good waters.

Dara Ganatra, Analyst — UTIPF

Right. So, still, what is the kind of impact that you all have internally assessed as management? Anything that you would like to put out? Okay.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Like I said, we have not. Only part, we know the CGHS impact won't be there because that impact already happened last year.

Dara Ganatra, Analyst — UTIPF

Sure, sir. That's all from my side. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from Beano Parindhambay from Ilara Capital. Please go ahead.

Beano Parindhambay, Analyst — Ilara Capital

Hi, Krasnu. Sorry, just a follow-up on the previous question. How much did you say is the contribution of pharmacy to the overall revenue? All pharmacy put together, not just oncology.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

I did not give you a number.

Beano Parindhambay, Analyst — Ilara Capital

Oh, okay. But in a general sense, could it be, you know, 15% or 35%?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

It's bundled services, you know, you... For example, you have a chemo, this thing, but then you have the mixing charges, et cetera, bundled with it. So it's a little difficult to find out what is the part of the... Because in packages, you'll have to split it. How do you work it out?

Beano Parindhambay, Analyst — Ilara Capital

Understood. Okay. So, and what part of the total revenue would be package services, and what would be, like, you know, as you pay, as you pay, as you pay, as you pay for this kind of service?

Yogesh Sareen, CFO

It depends on which side you are talking, the self-pay or the different usual companies, but it will be anything between 20 to 30 percent.

Beano Parindhambay, Analyst — Ilara Capital

20 to 30 percent would be packaged services.

Yogesh Sareen, CFO

Yes, yes, depending on how it is.

Beano Parindhambay, Analyst — Ilara Capital

Okay. So, for the remaining 70%, you would be able to give some sort of contribution of revenue, right? Contribution of pharmacy to the revenue, right?

Yogesh Sareen, CFO

We won't be able to tell you. We know the overall pharmacy, but we won't be able to tell you what is the balance, what is the pharmacy, etc. Because, you know, that's not the way we cannot see these numbers.

Beano Parindhambay, Analyst — Ilara Capital

Okay, okay, but we are looking for roughly a rough estimate of the 70%, you know, maybe...

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

You'll have to unbundle the business, which is not possible. Okay, thank you. Thank you. I mean, you know the overall net profit, you know.

Beano Parindhambay, Analyst — Ilara Capital

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Siddharth Negandhi from CWC. Please go ahead.

Siddharth Negandhi, Analyst — CWC

Thank you for taking my question. You mentioned that... Ex-oncology growth is 25% in revenue. Could you help me understand what would that also mean in terms of EBITDA growth? And second, while you alluded earlier in the call to, you know, not really having a particular set patient make stress, also paying a decrease in the cardiology salience, which means cardiology would have grown slower than the overall revenue. While we don't see that in the allied space in pharma of any slowdown in the cardio growth, is there anything that may be happening there due to increasing competitive intensity, or what's your read on the cardiology growth being slower? Yeah, those are the two.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Cardiology is typically a seasonal business. So, you know, you have a winter season, you have higher incidence of cardiology cases. You know, that's the time, lower incidence of orthopedic cases. So are you looking at quarter-on-quarter, year-on-year?

Siddharth Negandhi, Analyst — CWC

Year-on-year.

Yogesh Sareen, CFO

So, I'm not sure what your question is. I think you're saying the oncology, yes, I think the oncology with impact is because of the chemotherapy drug's discontinuation, right? So, as a result, we have said that, you know, if we take the oncology out, then the revenue growth is obviously higher because, you know, last year you have those chemotherapy drugs and this year you don't have. And that's the reason you find that the oncology share is also down, you know, as a percentage of the total revenue, right?

Siddharth Negandhi, Analyst — CWC

So, sir, what I wanted to understand is revenues at some quality are higher by 25%. Could you help us also understand what that has meant on EBITDA growth? Is EBITDA growth also significantly higher because of the same oncology impact? That was question one. On cardiology, just to clarify, I was looking at it here and here, not quarter on quarter. And that's where the question is.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Ebitda growth would be high, right? Therefore, Ebitda margin is the same as last year, in spite of that revenue going out of the books.

Yogesh Sareen, CFO

No, we can't impute a value which is not there in the piano. We can't just say that this would have been the value, so we don't want to kind of do that kind of number. So obviously, the drop in chemotherapy, you know, drugs has an impact on the margin, right? We said that last time that the overall impact of this is roughly around 100% in a year. Right, of chemotherapy drugs being discontinued. But nevertheless, we had a net gain of 200 trolls on the CGHS price. Right, this is the number that we given earlier.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

So you can't take one without the other. I mean, if we, if we, you know, net, net, there was a gain because of price revision of CGHS. One part of it was oncology where we had a loss.

Siddharth Negandhi, Analyst — CWC

Yeah, very helpful. Thank you.

Yogesh Sareen, CFO

Thank you.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

But cardiology also increased by what?

Yogesh Sareen, CFO

What is the growth in cardiology? 18% growth.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

So you had an 18% growth in cardiology as well. So I'm just coming to the previous history.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Prashant Kheershagar from Univir Corporate Research. Please go ahead.

Prashant Kheershagar, Analyst — Univir Corporate Research

Good afternoon, sir. My question is on NOIDA Super Speciality Hospital. Can you share the occupancy level in Q1 and Q2 numbers, if you can?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

On NOIDA? We don't share specific hospital-level occupancy numbers.

Prashant Kheershagar, Analyst — Univir Corporate Research

Okay. And secondly, the 85 beds which will become operational in brownfield expansion in Noida, that would be above the 504 beds you have or will it be 377 beds plus 80 beds?

Keshav Gupta

It is part of the 500 bed complex. Activated beds are 378, C80 beds. We will be adding 85 beds to that activated bed.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Somewhere there is the answer. I mean, you do a brownfield because your capacity utilization is high. Otherwise, you won't be adding 35.

Prashant Kheershagar, Analyst — Univir Corporate Research

Yeah, so it will be basically towards the 700-bed hospital, which will be...

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

No, no, that's the additional. That's the additional...

Keshav Gupta

So, just to clarify, the entire site is an 18-acre site. The current structure has a 500 bed capacity, 504, 505 beds. Office 380 beds are active. We will be activating another 85 beds in the same complex. The residual 11 acres unused, we can add 700 beds. That's the separate phase to mention in our earlier communications.

Prashant Kheershagar, Analyst — Univir Corporate Research

Okay, okay, fine. And my second question is on the Greater Noida. In the earlier presentations, you had mentioned that there's a land parcel for 400 beds. So, do you have an existing hospital in Greater Canada, or you don't have?

Yogesh Sareen, CFO

No, we don't have. We only have a piece of land there.

Prashant Kheershagar, Analyst — Univir Corporate Research

Oh, you only have a piece of land there. Okay, sir. That clarifies my image. Thanks a lot.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Divya from HatchCon Global Services. Please go ahead.

Divya, Analyst — HatchCon Global Services

Hi, thank you for taking my questions, and most of my other questions have already been addressed. So, I'll just ask one about Max Lab and Max at Home. We have seen as the year-on-year growth of around 24% and 37% respectively this quarter. However, their contribution to the overall business is relatively small. So, what are the key growth drivers for these two businesses going forward? And over the next three to five years, do you see them becoming meaningful contributors to the group's overall growth and profitability?

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

I think the key drivers of this business continue to be what they were in the past. I think there is a need, and our patience and our brand helps. And we see it's had the same level of healthy growth in the past as well. I mean, it's always plus-minus 4-5 percentage points, but, you know, it's had a 20-25 percent CAGR over many years. And, I mean, it's been growing at a good distance. We are happy to see this business, actually the percentage of the business of overall revenue remain the same, so long as other businesses also keep growing at this pace. You're aware other businesses have also been growing at about 25-26% over the last five years. So, I mean, that's the only reason, similar to international business, that it remains a smaller percentage, or as the percentage of revenue remains static, but it's been growing on a standalone basis, and we see this, of course, we see it as being meaningful over the years to come. Otherwise, we would not be doing these businesses. We don't sort of do businesses just because they're short-term cash cows. We see them as stars of the future, and we continue to invest in these businesses. They're already quite profitable.

Divya, Analyst — HatchCon Global Services

Okay, and that's it. Thank you.

Operator

We'll be able to take one last question. We'll take the last question from Prince Goenka from Narnolia. Please go ahead.

Prince Goenka, Analyst — Narnolia

Hi. Thanks for taking my question. I have two questions, but it's the question in the method, if you're currently for innovation, so what is the timeline for making them operational, and what opportunity and data levels do we expect over the next two to three years? And the second one is...

Keshav Gupta

The first one, the renovation phase should last about 12 months. The first phase should get delivery of the few OTs and best in about 3 months' time. The next 2-3 years, we will rather add another tower of another 250 meters. Thank you.

Prince Goenka, Analyst — Narnolia

Do you expect any operating leverages to improve as you move at a specific measure, or will man talk for speculative push pressure on margin?

Keshav Gupta

For the new facilities that have been commissioned, brownfield capacities, they will obviously be operating leverage. That's what we mentioned at the beginning of the conversation. As the capacity gets full up, there is operating leverage that gets uniform. And same thing will happen for Bhumneshwar as well.

Prince Goenka, Analyst — Narnolia

Okay. And one more question. How much 20% revenue growth in Q2 came from higher patient volumes versus improved average yield per patient?

Keshav Gupta

We have mentioned earlier, so the ARPV and the IP volume growth has been disclosed there. About 12% was the volume patient growth, 12 to 13% was the volume growth.

Prince Goenka, Analyst — Narnolia

Okay, that's all for much. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you very much. We'll take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management team for closing comments.

Abhay Sohi, Chairman

Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. We appreciate your time and look forward to interacting once again with you next quarter. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you very much. With that, we conclude today's conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.