Amber Enterprises India Limited (AMBER) Q4 2026 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 and FY26 Earnings Conference Call of Umbar Enterprises India Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jasbir Singh, Executive Chairman, CEO, and Whole-Time Director of Umbar Enterprises, India Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Hello, good morning, everybody. On the call today, I am joined by Mr. Daljit Singh, our Managing Director. Mr. Sudheel Goel, Group CFO, Mr. Sanjay Roura, Whole Time Director of Iljin Electronics, and Mr. Sachin Gupta, Whole Time Director of Ambar. We have uploaded our presentation on the exchanges, and I hope everyone had an opportunity to go through the same. I am pleased to report FY26 has been a remarkable year for the company, as our consolidated revenue surpassed 12,000... CRO milestone despite the RAC industry witnessed a challenging year on the account of weather conditions, while Umber Group demonstrated resilience with growth driven by all three of its diversified divisions and each engine propelling the growth forward. Let me reflect briefly on the strategic initiatives taken in electronic division during the year. We strengthen the volume and value play by expanding both horizontally and vertically through our partnerships with PowerOne, Unitronics, and Shogini. On the expansion front, we have got more than 4,500 crore total investment approvals under ECMH. Ascent K Circuit in Noida for HDI PCB, along with Ascent Circuits in Hosur and Shogini in Pune for multi-layer PCB applications. On the way forward, Ascent K Circuit's HDI PCB manufacturing facility is set to commence its construction by June of 26th month. With trial production expected by Q3 F528, this will be a state-of-the-art facility strategically located near New Noida Airport. The bare PCB business collectively with Ascent Shogini and Ascent K is well positioned to emerge as India's largest and most comprehensive PCB manufacturer, offering solutions from single-layer PCBs to advanced HDI products. This reinforces our long-term commitment to strengthening India's Atam Nirbharta in electronics manufacturing ecosystem. Further, strengthening our foothold in the promising and fast-growing industrial automation space, we have now increased our stake in Unitronics Israel to 50.4%, achieving the majority ownership. Switching to performance, the consolidated revenue. Let me now take you through the divisional performances. Firstly, on Consumer Durable Division, Owing to weather conditions, room AC industry has remained largely flattish during the year. In line with our guidance, the division outperformed the industry, recording a growth of 14% over previous year. The performance is driven by a diversified product portfolio, deepening of wallet share, and continued expansion of our product offerings. Further, considering the robust growth potential in room AC industry, we have augmented our RAC production capacity at SyriCity in South India. On inventory front, considering the geopolitical uncertainty, we have proactively built inventory to mitigate for any supply chain risk. Coming to our electronics division, the division continues its strong growth momentum in FY26. With revenue of 3,268 crore, reflecting a growth of 49% year-on-year basis, driven by a strong PCBA business along with bare PCB business and addition of new businesses. The division reported operating EBITDA of 287 crore with growth of 89%. Continuing the strong growth momentum, this division is expected to grow by around 40% in FY27. Coming to railway division, this division delivered a strong growth of 19% revenue during FY26 and operating EBITDA grew by 8%, supported by increased offtake driven by metro, railway, and defense solutions. On the expansion front, Sidwall's greenfield facility of HVAC, Pantry, Doors and Gangways in Faridabad is now ready and trial production is underway, and commercial production is expected to begin from current quarter. Backed by strong order book visibility of Rs. 2600 crore plus and product portfolio expansion, we remain optimistic of division's growth. of 32-35% for both FY27 and FY28. As we look ahead, FY27 holds the promise of strong growth momentum. However, on the margins front, prevailing high commodity prices, currency depreciation, and minimum wage revision in UP and Haryana poses handwinds in consumer durable and electronic Thank you. For bare PCB businesses, there has been increase in input cost of copper clad laminate. Prices have increased by more than 60% in last one year and still increasing. Gold prices have also increased by approximately 60% in last one year and prices still continue to increase. On the railway division side, the Indian railway contracts are fixed price contracts. Whereas the metro project contracts are the pass on mechanism is there. To sum up, we expect a margin pressure of 50 to 100 BIPs at consolidated level, which is of temporary in nature and expected to normalize as macro environment improves. Now let me hand over to Sudhir Goyal, our CFO, for financial highlights.

Hi, good morning, everyone. Let me take you through the consolidated financial highlights, starting with the full year performance. Revenue for financial year 26 increased to 12,186 crores compared to 9,973 crores in the previous year, recording a growth of 22%. Operating EBITDA increased to 970 crores against 796 crores, reflecting a growth of 22% year on year. For clarification, operating EBITDA is before the impact of ESOP expenses and other non-operating income and expenses. Adjusted PAT for the year stood at 338 crores against adjusted PAT of 277 crores in financial year 25, reflecting a growth of 22%. Adjusted PAT is prior to the exceptional one-off impairment of investment in Shivalik and share of loss of Shivalik, JV, amounting to 1-1-2 crores in financial year 26 and 26 crores in financial year 25, whereas it's after considering the one-off provision of 9 crores of new labor code and other JV losses of 8 crores. Coming to the quarterly performance, for QF 26, we clocked the consolidated revenue of 4148 crores up by 10% over last year. We recorded quarterly operating EBITDA of Rs. 362 crores, a growth of 15% year-on-year. Adjusted PAT for the quarter stood at Rs. 162 crores versus Rs. 128 crores last year, reflecting a growth of 27%. While there was no adjustment of loss of JV on account of Shivalik in Q4 Financial 26, whereas Q4 25 we adjusted back for loss of Rs. 9 crores. Further to clarify, in quarter 4, share of loss of Shivalik JV is 64 crore from 1st January 26th till 30th March 26th, the date of sale of Shivalik shares. Since we have already impaired investment through exceptional item, in quarter 3, accordingly, we have reversed the impairment of 64 crore as exceptional item and recorded it as a loss from JV of 64 crore. Importantly, there is no net impact on the P&L in quarter 4 on account of Shivalik, as the reversal of the exceptional item and the recognition of the JV laws offset each other. Further going forward, there won't be any impact of Shivalik in our financials. Now let me take you through the full year divisional performance overview. Firstly, revenue and operating EBITDA details of the divisional performance are not comparable with the published segmental results. Starting with the Consumer Durable Division, the Consumer Durable Division reported revenue of 8,383 crores in financial year 26 compared to 7,329 crores in FY25, reflecting a growth of 14% year-on-year. Operating EBITDA for the year increased by 6% year-on-year and stood at 5,93 crores compared to 5,62 crores in financial year 25. Coming to Electronic Division Performance. Revenue for financial year 26 increased to 3,268 crores compared to 2,194 crores in financial year 25, reflecting a strong growth of 49% year-on-year, driven by strong PCBA business along with BRPCB and the addition of new businesses. Please note, we acquired PowerOne Microsystems in August, Unitronics in October, and Shogini in December. Hence, the consolidated financials include performance of these three entities for partial period only. Operating EBITDA for the year recorded growth of 89% year-on-year and stood at 287 crores compared to 151 crore in financial year 25. Moving to railway system and defence divisional performance. The revenue for financial aid 26 increased to 535 crores compared to 450 crores in financial aid 25, reflecting a growth of 19% year-on-year, and the resulting operating EBITDA stood at 90 crores, a growth of 8% year-on-year. The dividend is expected to deliver 30 to 35% revenue growth in FY27. On the balance sheet front, net debt stood at 511 crores as of March 26 against 780 crores in March 25. Our net working capital days stood at 29 days as of March 26, compared to 9 days in March 25. Please note that the net working capital day calculation is considering acceptances as part of trade payables. The increase in working capital days was primarily driven by proactive inventory buildup, considering the supply chain disruptions from geopolitical uncertainties. On the incentive front, we have received the PLA amounting amount of Rs. 49.5 crores in April pertaining to financial year 25. In the current year, we expect to receive 78 crores under the PLA scheme for the financial year 26. Thank you. Now I request the operator to please open the floor for Q&A.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. In the interest of time and fairness to others, please restrict yourselves to two questions. For any more questions, you may rejoin the queue. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question comes from the line of Ankur with HDFC Life. Please go ahead.

Yeah. Hi. Good morning. Thanks for your time, as always. Two questions. One on the RAC side, just be the, you know, how do you see the industry volume growth, you know, given whatever we see in between kind of a, you know, some heat waves, rainfall in the beginning of the season in April. Things seem to be getting better as we head into May. So overall, you know, if you could just help us both for Q1 and also for the full year, what is that the industry growth could be? And more importantly, you know, how is Umber kind of seeing growth for this year? That's number one. Number two, on the margin front, as you said, there could be an impact of 50 to 100 basis. If you could just try and help us understand which segments would see most of these pressures and some guidance there on the margin front across segments. Thank you. Thank you.

Good morning, Ankur. I'll ask Sachin to reply to your first question, and then I'll answer the second question. Sachin, over to you.

Yeah, Ankur ji, so coming to the volume side, so obviously 25-26, as everyone knows, the quarter 1 and quarter 2 were very, very flattish, or they were like down by 30%. But quarter 3 and quarter 4 saw the recovery, so the complete EL is probably on a flattish side. But the quarter one has started at a very positive note for 26-27, so initial 10 days of April were very sluggish because of the rain and all that, but since 12th April, you can see that the south, west, and north all have kicked in, so the heat is already very high in the north. The demand is good. So, against last year, because the base was very weak, the industry expects to grow by somewhere around 20 percent in quarter one. On the complete year side, we are estimating a growth of somewhere around 12 to 13 percent. On the complete year side.

In volumes, okay. And price hike to the other 10-12%, is that fair?

So price hike versus last year, so there were two incrementals. One was in the month of January because of the starting change. One is in the month of April, majorly because of the commodity increase. So both together, we can say that the price increase is somewhere around 14% versus last year. Thank you.

Ankur, on the second question, on the margin side, as explained in my commentary, you know, there are three, four forces which are in play right now. I would like to give more brief on those forces. Basically, first factor is the minimum wage increase, which happened of 35% in Haryana, which led to riots in Noida and UP government also in turn increased minimum wages to about 22%. And then, you know, other states are also now looking to increase. So that is one part. Second is the commodities like copper clad laminate, the gold, which we use in PCB business. And what we have seen in the PCB front is in Ember, we are tier one. So in tier one, we directly deal with the customers, and we can increase the pass on or reduction of commodity and currency risk within a quarter one, at a quarterly lag basis. But in the PCB business, we are tier two. We don't supply directly to Maruti or Hyundai. We supply to tier one guys, and that's where the inventories has to be taken care of at two levels, and hence the lag in the PCB business to increase the cost is about two quarters. So this has been our learning in last one year as far as the PCB is concerned. On Indian Railway, contracts are fixed-term contracts. They don't negotiate because these are tender documents. But whereas other contracts like defense contracts or telecom contracts or the data center air conditioning contracts, which are now getting signed, those are the contracts which have gotten passed on through. And that's the reason why we gave a just update to everybody that this is temporary, of course. You would have seen in last seven years we have been able to pass on, you know, and we will continue to pass on. But since it is momentary, but we thought that we should able, we should be, it's our duty to inform everybody that next one or two quarters should be, you should see this hit coming in.

Understood. Thank you so much all the time.

Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Natasha Jane with Philip Capital. Please go ahead.

Thank you for the opportunity and good morning, gentlemen. I just have one question. So recently there was a news article that government has imposed import restriction on RAC compressors and even other appliance compressors. So, sir, could you help us understand the industry dynamics? What is the manufacturing capacity in India? How much amber as a company manufactures? And do you think this and next year could see some pain in terms of shortage there?

So, Natasha, basically, you know, there are room AC category of compressors required two ton and below compressors, whereas commercial air conditioners industry require two ton and above compressors. So, there are two categories of compressors, and then the third compressor which kicks in is in for refrigerators, right? We at Ember, we are not producing or manufacturing compressors. We buy compressors. We have a long-term agreement with GMCC who is supporting us on the compressor, and we also buy from other manufacturers like LG and other compressor manufacturers. So, we don't see any shortages on the compressor front, but to just give a brief on quality control order, which was in the news. So, there were quality control orders imposed on the compressor industry, and we have seen because of the production linked incentive scheme, five investments have kicked in in India in last three years, which is basically LG has put up a plant, Daikin has put up a plant, Mitsubishi has put up a plant, GMCC has increased its capacity, And Haile is also thinking of increasing its capacity. So these are five manufacturers who are catering to roomacy industry at the moment, whereas coming to commercial air conditioner division, there are companies like Copeland or Danfoss who are manufacturing compressors for those category of compressors, and you don't need only two ton, but you need three ton, four ton, seven and a half ton, five ton, eight ton, 11 ton, 12 ton capacities of compressors. So right now, the manufacturing capacities which have been built in country are below two ton. And that's why the quality control order says that, but there is still a shortage in terms of the capacity built up versus the growth in the country for the room AC. And that's the reason why government has allowed to import 30% of last year imported volumes to cater to the shortage. Coming on the two-ton in front, they have extended it for one year. So the complete... Compressors can be imported from outside India because right now we don't see any big capacity coming up for the commercial air conditioner sector. Then come to refrigerator compressor model. I mean, there are some very specific compressors which are not getting manufactured here, just like dispensers and other categories of refrigeration compressors. But on an overall basis, there looks to be adequate capacity. But still, some industry players feel that some particular compressors are of shortage and hence the QCO order was released to clarify and extend the imports. I believe that the way things are moving, we will see that further capacity increases will also come from new players also and existing players will also expand. So we don't see any big problem coming out of this place because of compressors.

So just one follow up here. So can we say at least for this calendar year or rather FI 27, there will still be a shortage of about 40% given industry will grow at 12% in terms of volume.

No, we don't think so, because if you map each and every manufacturer's capacity versus the requirement in the industry, looking at a CAGR of about 13 to 15 percent growth, I believe it is adequately placed. The capacities are adequate enough. I mean, of course, there is the shortage part has been addressed by the 30 percent allowance of import of compressors below two tons. So that bridges the gap.

Understood. Thank you so much, sir, and all the best.

Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Samit Sina with Macquarie. Please go ahead.

Yes, thank you very much.

So two questions. First one on the inventory side. So from my understanding, you're talking about inventory that's built up that's basically the components and the parts, not the finished products because you said the demand was strong. So on that front, by front loading this, what sort of benefit do you think you've got in terms of if you could quantify how much savings would that be in current component prices? That would be appreciated. And my second question is just in terms of

Whenever we've spoken, you've always mentioned how you've seen the

progression of going towards higher margin businesses. Does that still stand, or do you think at this point you'd be going towards high volume, low margin, but high ROC business?

If you can talk about that. Thank you.

So, coming on the first question on the inventory built-up, yes, we proactively increased our inventory level looking into the supply chain constraints. And we are not getting a very big advantage on the pricing side, but we are getting advantage on the supply side that we are able to fulfill our contracts on timely basis to each and every customer. As far as our endeavor on going towards the higher business model goes, I'll just give you a brief of what we have done in electronics. We had acquired Iljin in 2018 when this was a 300 crore company with about 3% of EBITDA. Now, this last year, we have crossed about close to about 8.8% of EBITDA in the electronics division, and we have crossed 3,200 crore of top line. We expect a 40% growth while getting closer towards the double-digit EBITDA numbers. So our endeavor on going towards the value side of the businesses, because in B2B business, what we are trying to attempt is we are trying to balance the left and right. So left side is the volume side business. Which are equally important to bring scale and to have a leverage on the purchase side. On the value side, they are more sticky businesses. There are entry barriers in those businesses like industrial electronics, industry automation electronics, power electronics, or aerospace and defense going forward, medical electronics. These are more sticky businesses, more entry barriers, and high margin businesses. So we will continue to balance both volume and value play while attempting to build a very strong, diversified B2B company. On the railway side also, we are doing the same things. We started with small company, 157 crore with about 13% EBITDA. Now EBITDAs are more about 17-18% type, and we are growing in that on more value-oriented products. We've gone into metro side. We've gone into doors and gangways. We've deep-dived more into the bomb of railways, and now we are developing data center cooling solutions. We've cracked almost four customers there, and we've already executed three projects, very marquee projects in India on the data center in REC and in ROW cooling side. So those are all value propositions which we are doing. But as a B2B company, you know, there are two pulses which we feel. The two pulses basically scale and second is efficiency. And the scale team is responsible to balance volume and value play. And while the efficiency teams are the operational teams which have to bring in efficiency on the plant side, on the purchasing side, on the R&D side, and so and so forth.

Thank you.

Thank you. Our next question comes from Drog Jain with Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.

Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on KPEX. So, you know, in last quarter you had said that your KPEX should be about 300 crores, but, you know, this number has been much higher. So, just wanted to get a sense that is it some front-ending of KPEX that you've done, and how should we look at FI27 KPEX as well?

Yeah, hi, Dhruv. This is Sudhir. So, rightly said that there is some front ending of a capex. If you see our overall capex, out of the overall capex, capitalized capex is only 550 crores. Balance is under CWIP, which is under process and which will get operation in the current financial year. So, the overall capex is around 1070 crores.

Okay, so, and how should we think about SR27 capex then?

So F527, we are expecting that one is a cent and one is the other than a cent. So a cent will be around 1,200-odd crores, including the capitalized portion out of this 547. And apart from that, there will be around 700 to 800 capex in all the other entities put together.

See, Dhruv, I'll add to what Sudhir has answered. These are all asset-heavy businesses where the capex is going, largely the printed circuit boards. This is exactly like OSAT and ATMP business, where asset turns are about 0.8 to 1 time. But what we are looking at as a team is the net capex, which we'll end up doing after deducting the subsidies from government, both center and state. So in this case, like SNK circuit, we'll be getting about 48% on plant and machinery back from through ECMS scheme. And we have negotiated 42% incentives on building plant and machinery from UP government. But this will come with a lag. First, we have to invest, and then we have to apply, and it will come in five to six years. But if we have to build a self-resilient, self-reliant, I would say, electronic component ecosystem, these asset-heavy businesses are good to have. Good ROC business on a long-term basis, and we are taking a very cautious call to develop this. It's an important substitution story for us, and we've already taken leadership in the country in the PCB sector, and we want to continue to maintain that through joint ventures as well as through our collaborative approach. What we are doing, we believe that I would request all of you to see the net capex at the end of the year.

Got it, sir. Sir, the second question is on EMS. So, you know, this quarter, if we strip off the acquisition, growth seems to be a bit underwhelming. So, what cost is, and, you know, just in connection to that, the hot people and growth drivers that you are given, how should we think of organic growth and growth coming through the various other acquisitions at least? Thank you.

So there was two customers who shifted from purchasing agreement to job work agreements. So that's the reason on the top line side, you would have seen that it's the organic expansion is looking little subdued. But on the margin side, if you have seen this quarter has delivered 10.8% margin. You know, so we are pretty much online to deliver what we've spoken. In future also, this kind of shifts can happen. You know, we don't control what customer wishes from us. We serve them in whatever shape and form they want us to serve in case of sub-assemblies or components or just job work bases or, you know, this keeps on changing with the management changes. But as given the guidance, we are very hopeful looking into the order book right now for the whole electronic division. We are positive, very confident to deliver about 40% of growth this year.

And sir, what would be the state of organic and acquisition?

Dhruv, now everything is organic because we have already acquired it.

All right. Thanks a lot, and all the best.

Thank you. Our next question comes from Praveen Sahay with PL Capital. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is a clarification on the CD, consumer durable segment. In that, you had a given 47% of your revenue for FY26 comes from the RAC CDU. So how is the growth? Because if I look at the 47% of the total revenue, it gives me around 33% of the growth. So, how that's a number to, you know, look at. Is that the whole, you know, complete built-up unit has grown faster than the component or is more on the realization front growth is there or how is the volume? Can you just give us some detail on that?

So, this keeps on changing because, you know, sometimes customer wants us full boxes, sometimes they want semi-knockdown conditions, and sometimes only the components. So, it varies from customer to customer and, you know, quarter to quarter. Very difficult, but if you see the trajectory and the history, you know, we were about 80% banking on finished goods when we got listed in FY18. Now, despite the growth in the top line side on the console basis, the whole FG has come down to as low as maybe 40% or something like that, you know. So, and, you know, it's basically, Sachin, you would like to add something?

Yeah. So, basically in 25, 26, as you were saying that there is a impact of the realization. So, the contribution has gone up. So it's not because of the realization, it is majorly because of the conversion of the gas charging customers to the ODM solutions. So that we have been updating in all of our quarterly calls. So we onboarded them in 24-25, but that was like in the last quarter. So now 25-26, it has been for the whole year. So the gas charging customers converted to the ODM, that is why the finished good contribution has come. Okay, okay.

Got it, sir. And second questions are related to the electronics segment, where you had now consolidated unitronics as well. So now, if you can give us some color on how is the, because the sorbony and the accent is also there, how is the mix of a PCV versus, you know, the PCVA segment?

So, PCBA is growing, I mean, out of, I think, 3,268 crores, which we have delivered, PCBA, how much is this?

Organic and inorganic.

Okay. PCBA is 2,281 crores, almost 2,300 crores. And then total on the other side is about 596 crores, which is Power One, Unitronics, and Shogini, and Ascent clocks crossed 402 crores. So almost about 1,000 crores is the other, out of which if you see Shogini Plus, PCB will be about 500, around 600 crores is PCB. So 2,200. Crore is organic PCBA, around 600 is PCB, and remaining is power electronics and industry automation electronics.

Any indication on the margin front for both the segments, PCBA and PCBA?

So, in PCBA, we are at about 5%. In PCB, we are at about 12-13%. This generally business is about 16-17% business, but because of CCL and because of gold prices and currency, but they are taking price increases from the customer. That's underway. We think that from next two quarters, we should be able to get it. We are getting positive responses. As far as Power 1 is concerned, it's about 15%. As far as Unitronics is concerned, because it's a listed entity, we cannot tell. I think you can look into Unitronics after two weeks once the results is declared. But it's a good positive company which we have added.

Thank you, sir, and all the best.

Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Indrajit Azharwal with CLSA. Please go ahead.

Hi, thank you for the chance. I have a couple of questions. First, if you can throw some light on the pricing of

PCBs, both globally and India, given that the cost

inflation would have been felt by everyone across the geography.

So pricing on PCBs is basically, you know, right now 90% is getting import and 10% is India. But whereas you would have seen that there is anti-dumping duty imposed by government to a tune of 30%. So despite of this commodity increase of CCL and gold has been a global phenomenon. It's not particularly to India. So even Chinese import or Taiwanese PCB imports have gone expensive. You know, so it's just, and it is from up to six layers, it is protected through the anti-dumping duty. So that's why the demand has not shifted from India to China or other nations. It's very much intact.

My question is, is the price increase that has happened globally and also in India not enough to offset the cost of inflation?

See, CCL is continuously increasing. It's touched 60% increase in last one year, and you cannot go to customer every time. They have given us improved increases. We have got increases. The first increase which we got was two quarters back, which was about 15%. Then again, another 18% increase we got, but still there is a remaining percentage of increase because on the other side, the currency is also depreciating. So, you know, it's a moving part. So, we are standing in front of customer now every quarter, whereas we used to meet them very, maybe after a year or so, but because of these things, we have started meeting them very often, but we are getting positive responses. Earlier, when we started asking for price increase, there was a big backlash. There was like a very strong opposition towards this, but then when they started comparing costs from the global suppliers also, they thought that it is better to give to increases, and they have started giving increases.

Sure.

My second question is if you can talk a little bit more about the key projects in terms of the delays, all those small delays, for example, as you mentioned, there has been some delay in the multi-layer PCB, Korea circuits, and also in Eugene, JV, and railways. So what is the kind of confidence we have in the timelines now?

So there is no large delay. I mean, it's about a delay of a quarter in the construction of Centrin Hossur. The construction got delayed because there was an issue in the release of consent to establish by pollution department, and that was because of ambiguity due to a Supreme Court guidance. There was some river going off in a diameter of three and a half kilometers away from this land. And then Tamil Nadu government was very fast in formalizing a committee, deciding it for us, and then giving it up. But it took about one and a half, two months for clarification, and that's how the construction got delayed in essence. But I think it's moving perfectly fine after that. There's no further delay we are anticipating. We expect that the trial productions will start by Q3. And commercial production will start by February, mid of February of next, 2027. As far as S&K circuit is concerned, because this was dependent on the ECMS clearance, post ECMS clearance, we approached UP government, and they released land parcel to us. It has been registered now, finally, in our name. Possession has been granted. And the team is right now preparing to get the maps approved. That's why we have mentioned in our commentary that we are going to, we are thinking of doing a A groundbreaking ceremony in the month of June. We expect the construction to finish in 15 to 16 months, which will start the trial production. We have kept about three to four months for the trial production, and that's how from quarter three, quarter four onwards of FY28, we will start the mass production of HDA plant. As far as Eugene is concerned, there is no delay in Eugene. Eugene factory came up as expected. It's under the RDSO approval. Now approval as informed earlier in the quarterly calls. It's a process of close to about 12 to 15 months. So that is underway. We have received 178 crore order book in Eugene for couplers. And we are now expecting the first order on the pentographs also. And the first order on the breaks also has been received. But those approvals will happen from Korea and then move to India once the RDS approval is done.

If I may squeeze in one more, if you can throw some light on the Sumitronics JV, what is the plan over there and what kind of opportunities are you doing?

So there is no Sumitronics JV, there is an alliance which has happened. It's a cooperation agreement with Sumitronics. They have large customers on the automobile side and they want to collaborate with us. to participate for the automobile PCBA businesses. And that's the collaboration. So there's no joint venture happening with Sumitronics, but we are excited with this collaboration because it gives us an edge. We already have experienced supplier worldwide with us now because earlier we were seeing that there was large entry barriers for Iljin to enter because we did not have a big, I would say, experience in the automobile sector. And that was keeping our customers little on the side. They were reluctant to onboard us. But now with Sumitronics, that barrier has been broken.

That's all from my side. Thank you so much. All the way.

The next question comes from the line of Archal Loade with Nuwama Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.

Good morning, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, first, if you could clarify, you know, in terms of the growth, you said 40% revenue growth for the electronic business. Is this post-conversion what you talked about, and hence the growth, the revenue growth number is weaker? So in that case, you also clarify the margin for that division. And within that, if you could also clarify, you know, if it would be driven by PCBA or PCBA business in terms of the margin.

So, what conversion are you talking about?

The job work thing, what you said.

So, considering the job work change, we are expecting a 40% growth on the top line, and the margins, what we are expecting right now, should be in the range of 9.5 to 10% range.

Understood. Number two, in terms of the, you know, the RAC business, the consumer durables, how do you see the margins there, you know, and is it fair to say that the percentage appears lower because of the price inflation or there is impact in actually rupees per unit margin as well?

So percentage, yes, will look dip because whenever the prices increases happens, because now 14% as Sachin explained, there has been increase of 14% in the finished goods side, you know, whereas we work on the absolute number with our customers. But the real term of real, basically, impact of commodity currency, we pass on to our customers, and that is happening from last. So many years. We have demonstrated it year and year again, which happens on a quarterly lag basis. So whatever changes are happening this month, this quarter will be passed on to the customers for the next quarter. And that's how historically our sector has been.

Just to clarify, sir, you mean the rupees per unit margin is intact? Is that fair?

Yes, that's right. So in percentage term, there will be impact because the price increase will increase the finished good price, but whereas we have a fixed price margin per unit. So overall fixed margin will remain same in terms of value, but in percentage term, it will look a little less because of the higher base.

So in the past, also, whenever commodities have eased off, the percentages started looking better. Yes. But we don't take credit for that.

No fair point, sir. Just a quick clarification. In terms of the non-AC component, how large is that now of the CD business, sir?

So of CD business, it's about 25% right now. And it's also maintaining a good growth, like just PTS has delivered a good growth on the bottom line basis. They are already touched 13% EBITDA now. And our cross-flow fan business, sorry, our other businesses of refrigerator and washing machine, that's also doing fine. Got it.

And 47% of the 3D business is...

I'm sorry to interrupt, Achal, I would request you to be in the queue. Our next question comes from the line of Rahul Agarwal with Ikigai Asset Manager Holdings. Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning, everyone. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Just clarifying whatever we've discussed so far, I think for the CD business, we're talking about 25% revenue growth and some bit of percentage margin decline. On electronics, you already mentioned 40% growth after the job-work adjustment with 9.5-10% range. For railways, the growth is clear, about 30-35%. Margins we could clarify. We don't know the order book breakdown between Indian railways and other railways to just clarify that. And second is a question with Suviiji. Just on CapEx, you know, my sense is that given where we are right now and whatever CapEx is spending on the new project site, we should end up spending like 1,800 crores to 2,000 crores. Assuming, you know, the Korea Circuit, JV, CapEx also comes through. If you could just clarify, and you can ignore the capitalization part to it, that from a cash flow perspective, 1,800 to 2,000 crores for fiscal 27 and about 1,200 to 1,300 crores 28. Based on the current CapEx pipeline on the new projects, is that number correct? Those were the two questions. Thank you.

So, let me answer the first question, then Sudhir will take up for the second one. On the CD front, we have informed that the markets are expecting to grow in about range of 13 to 14 percent range, and that's how we are also expecting to move in tandem with the markets. It's not 24, 25 percent, Raul. On electronics, you are right. We expect that post our conversion of job work basis, we expect the number to be around 40% range bound and margins in the range of 9.5 to 10%. On electronics, in railways, 30 to 35% looks doable. If there is no disruption of offtake from Indian Railway and Metro, currently it's going smooth, and we don't anticipate at the moment. But in case there is some changes, we will let you know. But the margins in the railway side, we expect in the range of 16 to 17 percent. So, that's how the whole part of it. Now, over to Subir.

Yeah. Hi, Rahul. So, on the capex, yes, we'll be doing around 1800 to 2000 crore of overall capex, including Ascent, New Project, some part of Ascent K and the other divisions. But from the cash flow perspective, since we have negotiated a better term, long term terms from the many suppliers of Ascent Circuit for PCB, We are expecting that the cash also will be much lesser than 1800 to 2000 crores. It should be around 11 to 1200 you can expect from the cash flow perspective.

Okay. And on fiscal 28, if you have a budget from a cash flow perspective?

So, it will be same because in 28, our new ascend case circuit, larger CapEx will happen. We also will have a better, much larger credit term from the CapEx suppliers. So, you can expect the similar or little higher around 14-1500 kind of a cash outflow for the CapEx in terms of cash.

Perfect. Thank you so much, and wish you all the best. Thank you.

Thank you.

A reminder to all participants, in the interest of time and fairness to others, please restrict yourselves to two questions. For any more questions, you may rejoin the queue. Our next question comes from the line of Santosh Sheshadri with Aventus Park. Please go ahead. Good morning.

Thanks for the opportunity.

I have a question on net debt position. So how should we think about our overall gross debt and net debt relative to fourth quarter levels, considering the, you know, capex spending and maybe the working capital associated with project ramp-up, and what would be the impact of that on interest costs and other income in FA27? So that's my first question.

So, at FI 26, we have reported a net debt of 511 crores, and looking into the capex, what we are doing, and the cash flow, I'm expecting slight increase in the net debt position by year end. It could be more by 200 to 300 crores. Those will be generating a cash flow, and then we'll be spending out of that, but cash generation might be a little less than what we are generating from the overall business. So, you can expect around 700 to 800 crores of a net debt by year end.

Thank you very much. And my second question is on the consumer durable division. Sorry if this is a repetition. Your earlier commentary suggested, you know, 20 percentage growth in first quarter and 12 to 13 percentage growth in FY27. Just to clarify, is this for the broader industry or are we talking specifically about for the consumer durable divisions?

No, we were mentioning about the broader industry trend because post 12th of April we have seen a positive offtake of goods because of the heat wave in south and west and north. And last year base was also very less. But quarter 2 and quarter 3 are generally lean quarters for the industry. That's why we expect that the industry will be in the range of 12 to 13% growth phase this year.

And for the overall revenue growth for consumer-durable business in FY27, what will be there?

We should move in tandem with our industry.

All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Neeraj Jain with BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.

Yeah, hi, sir. Good morning. Sir, my first question is on the non-controlling interest. Just wanted to check.

So as per the schedule, it's written that 1750 crore fundraise that we took in LJN has been accounted in the balance sheet. So if you can help us understand that how much percentage stake dilution is being considered already in this NCR, and based on

the CCPA's conversion, how much could there be further dilution upon the conversion?

So nothing is being considered as a dilution on CCPS. Nothing, no dilution has still now happened due to CCPS. It will happen in future, based on the future multiple and valuation. So currently, on a conservative side, the auditor has considered the diluted percentage and calculated the NCI. So this is a maximum amount that they have considered looking into the agreements, but this is on a maximum side. It will be much lesser than when the actual conversion will happen in the equity.

And sir, can we get that maximum percentage dilution that the auditor has considered?

I think they have considered around 30 odd percent. Okay, okay. And so, secondly, just wanted a clarification on the Capex side.

So, do we expect to receive any capital subsidy also for the next year, or do we expect it to get it in FY28 once we commission the Asenta?

So capital subsidy, we have already got in terms of land, because land subsidy already taken into consideration, and we got a value at a lesser price at around 25%. And balanced capex subsidy of building and other capex will come over the period of five to six years, once we start the commercial production. So you can expect the subsidy will start flowing in from next year onwards, like financial year 28 onwards, for a cent.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, we would take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Jasbir Singh for the closing remarks.

Thank you, everyone, for joining on the call. For any further information, kindly get in touch with our head of fire, Mr. Ravi Kharbanda. Thank you very much, and have a good day ahead. In case you have further queries, you can reach out to both the gentlemen. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Amber Enterprises, India Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.