Bansal Wire Industries Limited (BANSALWIRE) Q4 2026 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 and FY26 conference call of Bansal Wire Industries Ltd. From the management, we have Mr. Pranav Bansal, MD and CEO, and Mr. Ganshyam Gujarati, CFO, to take the discussion forward. We also have the investor relations team from AdFactors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. Please note the disclaimer mentioning these risks and uncertainties are on the disclaimer slide of the Investor Relations presentation that has been shared earlier. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Pranav Bansal for the opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Yeah, hi, thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Mansilva Industries Q4 and FY26 earnings call. Joining me today is Mr. Gancham Guzati, a CFO, and I trust you've had the opportunity to review our financial results, press release, and investor presentation, which are available on the stock exchanges and on our website. Now, let me start by saying that There has been a year of a lot of major changes for the company. In fact, I would say that we have completely transformed ourselves through the process and have emerged stronger and sharper. Let me highlight some of the major events. We had a good focus on ROC. This approach, we deferred our backward integration project, undertook a comprehensive review of operational efficiency, and realigned our strategy towards our core competencies. And as a result, we were able to generate a cash flow of 333 crores, exceeding our initial target of 250 crores, and we remain on track for achieving our total target of 600 crores by 27. And by doing this, we have also remained well positioned to fund our growth. Thank you. There was a fire incident in our steel court shed, which... Thank you. Vessing is planned adding 6,000 tons of capacity on the existing 9,000 tons. Even on the steel cord front, we have made a major breakthrough and are expecting our very first trial order very soon. Next, we started our LRPC wire product with 18,000 tons of capacity, which is also towards the end of this year. Last year, we also strengthened our B2C segment. Turning to our manufacturing footprint, our installed capacity now stands at approximately 6,80,000 metric tons, with the Dadiri facility continuing to anchor our growth. During this year, we added about 1,20,000 tons of capacity at Dadiri, completing our first phase of this extension. This facility not only supports volume growth, but also enables us to deliver high-value-added products with improved consistency and better operational efficiency. And last, and I would say one of the most important events, which is something we are all dealing with, particularly in the month of March, we saw some disruptions due to geopolitical tension involving Iran and Israel, which led to volatility in global energy markets and supply chain challenges. We also experienced a temporary disruption in natural gas. Our production took a cut to 35%, which also had a short-term impact on our production schedule. Despite these headwinds, our volume remained resilient, increasing by 33% for the full year, while EBITDA and revenue grew by approximately 20%, reflecting our underlying strength of our business. As we enter... We anticipate a relatively subdued start, particularly in the first quarter, given the ongoing situation. However, we are proactively taking measures to mitigate these impacts and remain confident in our ability to navigate the near-term challenges. But once condition stabilizes, on our targeted 20% growth trajectory, supported by our strategic initiatives, and already available capacity. I'll now hand over the call.

Good afternoon, everyone. Let me walk through the key financial and operational highlights for the quarter 4 and for the full year by 26. Let me begin with the volumes. During this quarter, we delivered a sales of 1.17 lakhs, reflecting a 20% year-on-year increase. Volumes were slightly lower on a sequential basis, primarily streaming. From the disruption of industrial gas supply, as highlighted by our MD Sir, Sonology. For the full year, volume stood at 4.58 lakh metric ton, compared to 3.44 lakh metric ton in FY26, translating into 33% year-on-year growth, and making the higher annual sales volume achieved by the company. This volume was Sustained consistently across the quarter and supported by the broad-based demand that our diversified and market exposure to us. Moving to the financial, for quarter 4-year-old by 27, revenue is 2.1136 crore, reflecting 21% year-on-year growth. The visa for the quarter was 80 crores with a margin of 7% and less profit. For the full year, F by 26, revenue stood at 4160 crores, reflecting a growth of 19 percent over F by 26. EBITDA was 325 crores, up 17 percent year on year, and net profit for the year stood at 161 crores. Higher by 10%, both reflecting healthy growth over the last year. With that, I will conclude my remark. We can now open the floor for questions.

Thank you. Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. This question comes from the line of Parthiv Jhonsa, from Anand Rati. Please go ahead.

Hi, can I order this off? Thank you for the opportunity, sir. And congratulations, especially, you know, during the third month of the quarter, still you have been able to keep your volumes intact. Congratulations on that, sir. So my first question is pertaining to one of your opening statements where you stated that the year has started on a bit of a subdued note. Is it possible to quantify what is the issue, particularly from, say, gas? What is the gas ability today? What can be the headwinds or what can be the volume disruptions, particularly for Q1 of this current financial day?

We started with, of course, lesser volumes. In fact, last month, our volumes were cut to an extent of 35%. However, those are back. We are now expecting about 80-85% kind of our volumes to be there. But other than volume, there is also an issue in demand as of now. Other than, I would say, the automotive segment, all other segments that we see, we still see a lack of demand. All segments are still, you know, undergoing these issues, and till the time this doesn't go back to normal, I am not expecting. Say, well, so visibility could be there. Quantify this. I think we are all on the same boat, and, you know, we'll have to see how it goes. But, yeah, what I can say is that once we normalize, I think overall we are still expecting, you know, a 20% kind of a number to be there.

But, of course, only once we normalize. that you have kept your early volume guidance intact at, say, 20% growth. But I just wanted to just add on to that, that despite, say, you know, volumes are down, considering the gas distribution and the demand, I believe the prices would have been much better, right? Because the steel prices have gone up substantially, especially post-February, post, you know, starting of the year. The prices are already up on the range of almost about 10-15%. So will that actually support your top line, despite you losing on the volumes?

Yes, I would say that would definitely support our top line, but that would still not translate to real earnings. At the end of the day, our business is still driven by volumes and EBITDA per ton. In fact, if we talk about only EBITDA because of operating at a lower base, even our cost is higher. So, our EBITDA per ton will also take. It might be higher, but at the end of the day, it is all about the quantities that I am able to sell. Sir, right now, it is very difficult. I mean, every day is a new day. Every day we have different challenges. It is definitely getting better. But yeah, we'll still have to see, you know, how long this...

The second question was particularly to the steel cord business. You know, we have, since IPO practically, you know, stating that the approvals would be there. However, there were some, you know, headwinds, and now I think about a call or two-point call back, you have stated that we will be entering the phase two trial process. This call, you have stated that you are almost on the verge of getting the first trial order of the first order. What can be the quantum and what can be the delta now that finally things have been looking up for you? Which of the automobiles?

We will be receiving from the top four companies in India. Yes, our year started slow because of the fire incident, but we've picked up. And if the customer finds everything to be intact, then we can expect a regular order. How that will happen, we will keep you updated, but it is very hard to predict. Phase 2 trial has already been completed, right? If I'm not mistaken. Yes, with one customer which we would expect this order from, yes. There will not be a Phase 2 trial process. It will only be a sample and then some others.

Okay, got it. So, NFMX, with these reason, the last one from my side, is it possible to quantify what is the... Even, you know, broad benchmark numbers are fine, but is it possible to quantify what is the... You know, share of, say, low-carbon, high-carbon, and speciality in top-line as well as the EBITDA. In percent-reterms, it's also fine.

Yeah. So, overall, our product mix has remained the same. I think 55-ish percent of low-carbon, 25% high-carbon, and 20% stainless steel in general. This is the broad thought process that we have, and there has not been a major change here.

But then low-carbon would have much lower EBITDA contribution. So that means you're a bit tough. would be much higher from high carbon and stainless as compared to low carbon.

Sir, we will not be able to give you separate EBITDA levels for all streams. What we would be showing to you is the EBITDA pattern on a blended basis.

If I have any further questions, I'll join back to you.

Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and want to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of Prateek Singh from IIFL Capital. Please go ahead.

Thanks for the opportunity. So the first question was largely on the industry side. Given it's a low margin industry and we are the market leaders here, I would assume this gas problem would be faced by a lot of your competitors who are in a much smaller scale. So fair to assume that they would be in pretty much that situation right now if demand is weak and we can expect. to gain market share despite the one being weak right now.

If we break this demand situation into different sectors that we have, I would say the automotive sector has been doing well. There, we are still able to grow, even through all of this. So, yeah, I think for us, automotive is okay. Every other sector, whether it is consumer durable, infra, all of there, we are seeing a very sluggish demand. And this is because of two reasons. One is there has been a big price increase in steel in the last three months. And the second is, of course, the situation we are all going through. But yeah, I mean, it still looks positive. Every day is getting better.

He wants to know about this. Last, when we had stated that to gain market share, we would be taking a hit on our margins, is that phase largely behind us, or do you think to gain this 20% growth this year as well, our EBITDA margins, our EBITDA pattern would be likely lower than what we showed

No, from this year, there is no more, there is no impact, negative impact on EBITDA, which In terms of our regular operations, if we grow at 20%, our EBITDA should also grow at 20%. Of course, you know, this current situation, we have to keep aside. But once we turn back to normal, I think our EBITDA per ton should be.

What's the date on the two units, I think, Balaji, Vyas, and Bansal Hai Karban, which were going to be shut down? So what's the plan there right now?

So those two units, again, are operating at almost negligible capacity, utilization. All of it has mostly shifted to Bansal Vyas. I think maybe the last 4-5% that would be remaining would shift in another maybe 6-8 months.

All the best, LJ and WQ.

A reminder to all participants, please press star and 1 to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of Disha from Sapphire Capital. Please go ahead.

Hello.

Yes, please go ahead, Disha.

Am I audible? Thank you so much for this opportunity. So, firstly, you mentioned that currently also we're operating at around 80-85% volume, so we see 20% production cut in the month of April as well. So, going forward, how confident are we to maintain this 20% sort of guidance that we've given? You see any downside? Because you mentioned that auto sector is doing well, but that contributes, I think, around 22% to our revenue. So, is there any sort of downside you see to this 20% guidance?

Again, right now it is very difficult for me to, you know, give you a number because it is a very dynamic situation that we are all in. But yes, as of now, what I see is that situation is getting better. Right now there is sluggishness in demand, but we feel that it is getting better every day. So we are hoping for the best, but once it turns back to normal, yes, we should be able to grow at 20% because we have that kind of a capacity available with us from the starting of the year.

Given the current, I will be fairly confident we'll be able to do 20%.

Once we return back to normal, yes, 20% growth is what we should be able to do.

Okay. And this IHTY segment, this new segment that we added, what sort of capacity utilization were we at in Q4?

In Q4, I would not have the right figures, but yeah, I would say in the month of March alone, we were at about 25% capacity utilization in IHTY. And which is increasing by maybe 10-15, which should increase by 10-15% every month.

What sort of EBITDA per ton do we see in this one?

Right now, it is not contributing much, but once we touch 50% capacity utilization, I think it should turn into positive EBITDA.

Okay, and what sort of KPEX are we looking for for FI27?

FI27, or in fact, even in the years later, I think our KPEX strategy is now focused on our cash flows. So, what we are expecting is majority or maybe 60-70% of our cash flows we will pull back into KPEX. So, maybe 150-100 crores, something like that, to generate enough capacity. Thank you very much. Yeah, that should be stable in this year as well. That's a speciality right now in a percentage is nothing, so it's 20% of stainless. But yes, in this year, speciality should also come as part of this product mix.

Fair enough. Thank you so much. That is it for my sake.

A reminder to all participants, you may press star. Next question comes from the line of Deepak from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Thank you for the opportunity. Now, my first question is with respect to our payables. So this year, we have seen a sharp spike in our payable, both in absolute terms, as well as increase in the number of days. So just wanted to understand, have we structurally made any changes in the way we are sourcing? Let's say instead of a mill, are we procuring more through dealers, on account of which we are getting better credit term? Hence, the payable days have improved for us.

We're still buying from our main suppliers, and most of those suppliers, we're still paying, for them, we're still paying them at once. You are seeing the payable going high. So, this is part of the discounting facilities that we have done in purchases. Our vendor is still getting advanced payment, whereas we get that kind of a credit.

Okay, okay. So, if I understood correctly, you are still procuring from the steel mills, but... On an advanced basis, you are using purchase invoice discounting where the bank pays them and you pay the bank later, correct? That means going forward, this number to go up further. I mean to say your payable days going up higher. So as you increase your banking or discounting through, let's say, the banking methods.

No, sir, it can go higher. As in, you know, we are trying to reduce our total working capital is. So, in that effort, it could go higher gradually.

And will that also lead to increase our interest expense?

That will definitely lead to increase in our interest expense, Thank you.

Our balance sheet. So, if I see that from last presentation to this presentation, we have expanded our capacity by around 60,000 metric ton. Right. And despite that, if I look at your balance sheet, we are having a 213 crore of capital work in progress. So, just wanted to understand what is that.

So, this capital work in progress is part of the 60,000 tons also, which we have installed but not commissioned till late. That will happen in this month, month of April, one. And second, this is also part of some ongoing investment to further enhance our Dadri facility. So from this 6.8 lakh ton, we would want to this year add another 1.2 lakh ton so that we are prepared for. You know, this kind of investment is going in.

If I understand correctly, so we were in the process of adding around, I think, 90,000 tons in Sanand, right? And you are saying now that from 6.8, again, we'll be adding 1.2 lakh ton in Dadri itself. So would it be fair to assume in FY27, you'll be adding 1.2 in Dadri and let's say 0.9 in Sanand?

Sir, that 0.9 will come towards the end of 27. We will only be able to utilize that in 28. Not in 27. Therefore, for this complete year, we would still be adding some capacities there and there. For example, the ongoing IHDR expansion of 6,000 tons is happening right now. There are some expansions for low-carbon, high-carbon also.

Got it. So, as per your internal estimate, let's say by end of FY27, our capacity will increase from 6.8 lakh to what number?

From 6.8 lakh, it should be at least 8 lakhs, and with Sanand coming in, it might be 8.5 or 8.6.

You are saying because the demand situation is so dynamic that you would want to tweak your Capex number. That's the correct way to read about it, right?

So our Capex investment side should be capped at 200 crores or something like that. We should not be going higher than that for a year to be growing at this pace. Yes, we see a good demand. Other than this situation, we were already utilizing a good amount of capacities. Even in last quarter, if you leave March aside, at least 15-16 days of March aside, we were doing a good run rate. It is only in the last 15 days that we took a hit. Even then, we were able to do about 1,20,000 times in that quarter. So, we should, I mean, we have a good opportunity. Once situation returns to normal, I think, yeah, we can do something good. Therefore, the 20% number growth thought process still remains.

Okay, and in this 1,20,000 capacity that we're looking to add in Dadri itself, would it be equally split between low-carbon, high-carbon and speciality, or it would be more leaning towards, let's say, low-carbon and high-carbon?

It would be, yeah, I think it would be similar to the current product we'd say. Speciality would increase this proportion.

Just last question on this steel cord business. So I think last time you indicated that we were undergoing some field trials, and now you're saying that some trial runs are going on. Is it similar to the field trials, or is it that the field trials have been completed and you will be sending your first trial batch, and then ultimately if that gets approved, you will start commercial supply?

So, sir, generally the process is that once we receive a sample approval, the product goes for field trial, but with some customers, you know, because of the result that they've gotten from the sample itself, there are some customers who have removed the field trial process, and therefore we are expecting. Once we receive the trial order, once we supply them, they test it, then we can actually expect a regular supply level. So even though there was a delay because of the fire, because of this, we've been able to cover that. Yeah, that's the thought process, but that's only one customer. Overall, we are still expecting the other customers to be in line by the end of this year.

Very helpful, all the best. Thank you.

This question comes from the line of Haith Shah from Dalal and Brocha Stockbroking. Please go ahead.

Thank you for the opportunity. You know, what is it?

Yes, sir.

So firstly, my question is on the Sanand balance land. So, we described of our plan for, you know, the backward integration. So, in the last concord also, you had said, you know, probably the decision to sell or to come up with another, if it should be taken in the next quarter or so. So, I mean, have we come up with any decision on that balance land? So, for the balance, 50% land, we would be trying to sell it off to get that cash in. We have deferred our backward integration project, and for the next couple of years, it does not fit in our strategic investment scheme. So, any decision that we take on backward integration would at least be after those two years, because we already have Speciality Wire, which has now turned very well for us. The regular market of high-carbon, low-carbon, wherein we would want to spend most of our investments.

Next question is, with regards to our EBITDA pattern, if you look at this particular quarter, it was the lowest in the last eight quarters. I'm talking excluding other income.

So, what was the volume mix?

The EBITDA per ton impact that you see would also be because of the last 15 days in March. So there was a substantial increase in our gas prices to a tune of 4,000 to 5,000 rupees a ton on our product level, which is something that we were not able to absorb, which is something that we had to absorb because we have a 30 to 40-day order book. So although we have started getting that increase from our customers, but the 30 to 40 day order that we have has to go with that kind of a cost level.

Just a reiteration of what the previous participant had asked regarding the new 1.2 ton,

you know, capacity that will be coming up at Ghadri, so FY27, the total capacity would be 8x, right? And utilization levels, what can we expect?

I mean, standards.

That depends on how the year goes, but yes, we have already done about 4.6 lakh tons this year. We were expecting to increase this by at least 20% if it was a normal situation. So whenever it turns to normal, I think we will be in that run, right?

Okay, so, I mean, just to understand, when will that 1.2 lakh capacity be available?

So, that will be towards the end of the year, because we already are sitting on a reasonable capacity right now. So, for the first half of the year, at least, we don't need it. And with this situation, you know, we have also tried to, you know, delay something by two months or three months, till whenever it normalizes. So, we don't, again, want, I mean, the thought process is to... the capacity whenever we have it. We don't want to sit on idle capacity. We have a lot of flexibility here because we have our own machinery division. So we have a lot of flexibility as to, you know, when, which month, which quarter we need to invest, looking at our utilization levels. is to generate 20% capacity every year and grow at 20%.

That's all from my side. Thanks a lot.

Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Samai Shah from Novama Wealth Management. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, sir. You mentioned that the total capacity is now at 6,80,000 metric tons. So, would you be able to mention what is the split between high carbon, low carbon, and stainless steel? And also, what were the capacity utilization on those in FY26?

Our general split in terms of capacity or in terms of utilization is generally MS, which remains within a range of 55 to 60 percent. So, maybe 20 or 30 here in average 25%, and stainless steel at about 20%. Speciality is, you know, right now less than 3-4%. In April, we were at 67%.

Okay, fair enough, that helps. And the capacity that is coming up now at Dadari of 1.2 lakh, even that will be split in the same ratios?

Yes, broadly, that will be the ratio in which it will be.

Thank you, Rathir, so much.

Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Pujan Shah from Molecule Ventures. Please go ahead.

First of all, thanks for the opportunity. I might be new to the company, so the question might be repetitive. So please spare me for this. My first question pertains to the steel corner. So if I map in the industry size, that could be industry size is roughly around 2.5. 11% as well, that industry could grow at 4 lakh tons, right? So in that space, first, B-Cart has already been planning to expand. Second, Chinese has also been expanding into Thailand, and then they are trying to supply from there. So how are we looking at the scenario, and are we still planning to go ahead with the 2 lakh tons of capacity in this steel call?

So, you are definitely right on all these assumptions, and of course, we are planning to go ahead with this capacity. That's the main focus area for all of us in the company, because there is only one company in India today making this. We are the only and the first Indian company to start. Therefore, we see a good traction in this product. From all calculations that we have done so far, even the pricing looks okay, but the assumption that we made still stand correct. Whenever there is an import. So we also have a 10% arbitrage when we look at import prices. So it is a good business as of now. We get our approval. We are definite goals.

So, if we look at the total, let's suppose in FY31, when we conclude with our two lakh tons of capacity, we might spend around 2,500 crores. So, in that thing, if we broadly calculate, we get a revenue of roughly around 2,500 to 2,700, in which if we calculate the margin of 25%, Calculation of 600 crores, right? So, in that 600 crores, our payback should be around 5 to 6 years. Is that assumption correct, or am I calculating something wrong?

You're absolutely right. However, because it will be spent in the next 5 to 7 years, we've taken a ballpark range of 2,000 to 2,500 crores of total investment for 2 lakh tons. And EBITDA, as of now, will reach between 600 to 800 crores.

Got it, got it, sir. And I just want to understand what gives us so much confidence when we have been investing, because then ultimate, the total pie, if we look into it, we will be the largest catering to this segment. And if, let's suppose, any competitor comes up, like, let's suppose, example, Tata Steel. So, if they come up, they might not go with a small kind of investment. They can also spend something large. So, what gives us confidence that we could be the market share leader and we will be able to utilize our facility up and running at 100%?

Sure, sir. So, sir, there are, what we at least feel, a lot of barrier to entry in this product. Technology is one. To get the right people is another. We already have about 60 trained people, you know, in this field, and it is not very easy to get the right set of people. Technology also, we have exclusive collaborations, exclusive tie-ups with our suppliers, and they are probably very limited turnkey solution providers in this. Right now, we are confident on this approval cycle, and we've been able to manage it till now as well, because there is nobody in the country. But once there is a supplier, it will go back to a lengthier approval process. So, because we have our own machinery division, because we have been in this industry for about 85 years, and we have this diversification into a lot of different products, we are also able to keep our capex per ton very low, which is the same case in steel cord as well. The industry norm for this would be at least 50% higher than what we are looking at, and which is what we've already done in the first 20,000 tons.

I just want to get some sense on the approval side. So let's suppose, example, if a tire company approaches you or we approach a tire manufacturer, so just to understand, they will start manufacturing our steel core applicability with a new product they have been launching, right? So, if they have launched 10 products, Before the approval, they might be continuing with the company which they have already approved or they have been approved, like, let's say, for example, B. Then they will continue with the process, but the new product launches. Or they also replace the older models as well with...

The main consumption will happen in the existing models. In fact, in the newer models, they would choose to go with existing established players first and then approvers. So what our market would be, will be the regular tires, will be the regular products that they make today. That is where we are taking the chunk.

Okay, okay. So, why do they shift? So, one of the, obviously, the reason would be, but on the overall cost side, they might have 5 to 7% of the total cost in their total manufacturing cost. So, why do they shift specifically to us in the going model or the model which is up and running? And so what would be the key reason? It might be obviously 1%, 2% cost saving would be there. And second, the new product launches that have much more acceptability of our steel cord versus there. So is that how it works or it is very different than what I am assuming?

No, you are right. But other than that, I think it is also a security of supply chain. Today, they are not able to buy anything from India. Everyone has to import. And I think in the last five, seven years, we've always seen, you know, how disruptions happen if you are dependent majorly on imports. So I think that is one big factor. Steel Cod as a percentage of the total cost is not a big number, but it is everything to make a time. So this is a very important product, and everyone, I assume and I feel that all customers would be happy to get an Indian source.

Got it. And continuation with ISG and OSG, we have been kind of going to receive the BIS, I think, approval from. Thank you, and what is the experience you did?

Send your question. Maybe we can take this later.

Next question comes from the line, a reminder to all participants, please press star 1 to ask a question. The following comes from the line of Kunal from Veritas Research and Advisors.

Yeah, hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible? Yes, sir. Yeah. So, Pranay, I just wanted to understand, see, are we being more conservative due to the current issues and the geopolitical issues that lead to the world growth guidance of 20%? As earlier, I guess we used to grow at 30% plus, and even though we had guided 30%, 35%, right, in the previous calls. So just to understand your part on the guidance and going forward, like even if you can throw some light for FF28 or so. Thank you. We had a 30% estimate of quantities last year. Now that the situation is normal, I think the goal overall for the company is to grow at around 20-25% each year. Some year could be a little less, some year could be a little more. But 20% is the broad. When we say growth, it is majorly a bit of growth. Just a follow-up that, in the year of FY26, what was the capacity utilization, by the way? We had the capacity utilization for FY26 was 67%, 68%. And for FI27, are we aiming to be at 80% or plus? Yes, I think 80-85% is where I get the best return ratios for my investment, but because every year we also need to invest for the 20% growth next year, so we will see. I mean, 70% plus is what we should. Pranav, another, just a bookkeeping question. So, in the previous call that you highlighted, most of the capex has been done, and hence the depreciation and the finance cost has been capitalized, and we will going to see the pet growth, I'm going to say bottom line growth going forward. So, I just wanted to understand, even in this quarter, pet was largely driven by the low taxes and benefits and all. Is my reading correct? Sir, majority of depreciation that we had to take, as we have already done, now any increase in depreciation will happen only with increase in actual EBITDA levels also. So there is not going to be a disproportionate extra investment or extra depreciation or even interest. However, if let's say the EBITDA grows at 20%, our depreciation and interest should also grow around the same range.

The question comes from the line of Prateek from IIFL Capital.

Thanks for the follow-up. So just clarification, for this 1.2 lakh that you are adding this year, the KPX would be around 150 crores.

Yes, sir. The broad range that we want to remain is around 150 to 200 close every year.

Okay, but to grow at 20% of this 1.2 lakh number every year, we'll also need to keep going up because the base will keep getting bigger.

Yeah, so as of now for the next 2-3 years, I think average 150-200 crore average, and then of course every year it should increase by 20% our investment if we are also growing at 20%.

But after a point when you decide that you have to go into steel cords, then your volume growth may slow down because much of your capacity will be going through a low-volume steel cord business, which generates high wind-up and volume will be low.

Absolutely. That's why I'm talking about investment and not just absolute volumes here. So our thought process is more on investments. Now, wherever we make investments, volume could be different.

And sir, you said that currently, you will be sending prior volumes to one of the tire customers. So, whenever the final order comes, when do you think in your assessment, when can we start doing 20 kilotons run rate in steel courts? I mean, which month or which quarter onwards? Is it like three, four quarters away or more than a year away? How can you look at it?

Sir, although because of the fire, we definitely had a pushback of six months, but because of this expedited approval also, we might see some numbers within this financial year.

Okay, and currently are we selling hose wire from that facility or hose wire still not being sold?

No, we are selling hose wire from this facility. That is where we are now almost, we are trying to cover most of our main costs through selling hose wire.

Last question, when you said that the gas impact in terms of pricing per ton or costing per ton was around 4,000 to 5,000, so the way to look at it is that if you were making 7,000 rupees per ton EBITDA, only for those 15 days, your EBITDA would have gone down to 2,000 to 3,000 rupees per ton. Is that an assumption, correct?

Yes. We also carried 10 to 15 days of inventory, so our inventory also held during that time. It was not a complete hit that we had to take for the first 15.

So, pricing has completely gone back to normal, or have you been able to completely pass it down, or there is still some hit in terms of EBITDA pattern from gas as of now?

So, sir, one good thing is that we have a very cost-plus business model, wherein we keep 30 to 40 days of inventory and 30 to 40 days of order book. Now, this being a very exceptional increase, consumable is not something that we are able to take on previous orders. So, any orders that we moved after, You know, are being impacted in our costs. We have taken our increase. So, even today, the orders I am booking are with an increased pricing, considering all this increase that has taken place. But for 30 to 40 days of order book, that order will somehow go at the...

What is the current scenario looking like? Are your suppliers, you know... What is the escalation in the prices, just to give a... Can we get a broad understanding as far as gas prices are concerned?

Sir, gas prices have still not returned to normal. They are still escalated. In some areas, in some units, it is about 50%. In some units, it has gone up to 300% as well. So, what is the blended escalation for a quarter one? Blended, I would say, would be at least about 50%.

So, is it a fair understanding that for quarter one, for example, if your EBITDA per ton was, say, about anywhere between 6,500 to 7,000, and, you know, just continuing on a couple of other commentary, would it be possible a fair assumption that at least in the month of April, your EBITDA would be in the range of, say, about 1,500 to 2,500, or is that understanding way too low than what the current scenario is?

Sir, it depends on, so right now we are only in April, and we are seeing, right now we are only, you know, in the first month, and we are seeing demand coming back. So I don't think it should, the whole of the first quarter should go to that extent. I am sure we will see some recovery happening. And this 2,500 rupiah ton level is only for the 30 to 40 days of order book. So the whole quarter is not going to be that. After that, it will return to norm. So, out of 90 days, I think at least 50 days of standard EBITDA we should get.

I think the question is on Steelcore. Considering one of the large global brands there in the market, you know, supplying the material to the tire manufacturer for quite a few years, right? How much discount or what will be the delta you need to incur to just to gain the market share? I just want to understand, to just push the volume, what is the kind of, you know, ASP reduction you need to consider compared to that particular industry?

Sir, right now I think it is still too early to, you know, judge the exact pricing level. As and when we, you know, move forward in the journey, I think we will come to that. But we do not expect a very big difference between us and, you know, anybody else. Because right now, we are the first Indian company, so we should get that advantage at least. You know, of not just being a new and not reducing price to a very large extent.

That was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Pranav Bansal for the closing remarks.

So thank you, everyone. Thank you for staying connected. Thank you for watching us closely. I hope you were able to answer all your questions. If there are anything that is left, please let us know and we will get back to you.

Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Bansal Wire Industries Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.