Gufic Biosciences Limited (GUFICBIO) Q1 2027 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Griffith Biosciences Ltd. Q1 FY27 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participants' lines will be in listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand over the conference to Ms. Amisha from Kufik Biosciences Ltd. Thank you, and I will show you, ma'am.

Thank you so much. Good afternoon, everyone. Hi, Amisha, Company Secretary. Welcome you all to the investor call of Kufik Biosciences Ltd. Financial results for first quarter of FY2627. The press release and investor presentation relating to the result has been submitted to the stock exchange on Friday and are also available on the company's website. Let me begin by introducing the management team joining us on today's call. We have with us Mr. Pranav Chokshi, CEO and Hold-Time Director, Mr. Devkinandar Rumta, Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Avik Das, Investor Relations Head. Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone of the Safe Harbor Statement. Certain comments made during this call may contain forward-looking statements. These statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to various risks and uncertainties that could cause actual result, performance, or achievements to differ materially from those expressed or implied in such statements. Participants are advised to review the relevant disclosure and risk factors available in the public filings. With that, I would now like to hand over the call to Mr. Avik for his opening remarks. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Ami, and good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining us. Starting with Indore, the plant is running to plan. Qualification and validations are behind us. Product tech transfers are progressing on calendar we have set out, and our contract clients continue to migrate across from Nafsari. What is new this quarter is capability. The depot and microsphere suit a nearing completion. So, during this year, we will manufacture long-acting depot presentations in-house at in-law itself. We have also begun setting up a lipid-based antifungal by both an alternate approach over and above the conventional route. Very few sites in India run either, and both are targeted to be operational during this year. In critical care, we launched our monobactam and beta-lactamase inhibitor combination immediately on expiry of the innovator patent, And it is now introduced across corporate, tertiary, and secondary care networks. Early acceptance in large institutions has been encouraging. The division's focus this year is depth-widening and coverage within the hospital groups we already serve rather than adding portfolio with. Sparsh has completed a full quarter on the rebuilt channel. Outstanding days are within standard trade terms. Hospital onboarding has resumed at scale and coverage is now balanced between nursing homes and corporate chains. Two points worth noting, our focus has moved towards our own manufactured brands, which help both margin and supply reliability. And the dual chamber bag is gaining acceptance in major institutions. The division also entered Northeast and Jammu and Kashmir, applying the new channel architecture from the outset. Its launch pipeline for the year is the widest it has ever carried. In the women's health, FertiCare retains its leadership in recurrent implantation failure. The PureGraph group secured entry into major corporate IVF chains this quarter. The investigator-led studies with senior Indian clinicians have begun. Zenova continues its planned shift away from injectables towards prescription-led chronic therapies. The antioxidant range we introduced is now a meaningful growth layer, and the two first-mover launches are ahead, one in osteoarthritis and one addressing a metabolic ovarian segment. On botulinum toxin, we remain the number two brand in India in toxin type A, manufactured from our own strain. The inlicensed filler and biostimulator portfolio is progressing through its supply and regulatory steps for launch during this financial year, with no significant capital expenditure from us. On the therapeutic side, the franchise continues its expansion beyond the core neurology into urology, ophthalmology, pain management, as well as neurosurgery. In the nutraceutical and Ayurveda division, our lead joint care range outperformed its relevant product market this quarter. Our acid blocker continues to build gastrointestinal therapy into second pillar alongside pain, and the division has prepared its first entry into an allopathic pain management segment, which launches during the year. In the international front, the model change is now producing fee income alongside supply revenue. During the quarter, we progressed licensing in Europe, executed a contract manufacturing and licensing arrangement with a North American counterparty, and received first contract manufacturing orders in Australia. On our registrations front, we secured approvals across eight countries during the quarter, and in one of them, five presentations in a single therapy area cleared on the same day, which is exactly what the therapy basket approach was built to do. So the platform is in place, and the pieces are moving to schedule. Our medium-term expectations, which Pranav and Roomba, sir, have set out in previous calls, are unchanged. With that, I'll hand over to InterServe for the finance update.

the Q1 of 26-27 is 47.2 crores. In beta margin in Q1 of 25-26 was 14.6%, whereas Q1 of 26-27 is 18.09%. Profit before tax in Q1 was 16.3 crores, whereas Q1 of 26-27 is 30.1 crores. The PAC margin in Q1 2526 was 7.1%. In Q1 2627 is 11.56%. The profit of the tax in Q1 of 2526 was 12.1 crores. In Q1 2627 is 22.46 crores. The pack margin in Q1 was 25, 26, 5.3%, whereas in Q1, 26, 27 was 8.61%. Now, I am giving you financial highlights of Q1, 26, 27 versus Q1, Q4 of 26, 25, 26. The total revenue for Q4 of 2526 was 252.1 crores, whereas Q1 of 2627 is 260.8 crores. The EBITDA margin in Q4 of purchase was 44.7 crores. Q1 of 2627 is 47.2 crores. EBITDA margin in Q4 of 2526 was 17.74%. Q1 of 2627 is 18.9%. The fact margin profit before tax in Q4 of 25-26 was 27.6 crores, whereas Q1 of 26-27 is 30.1 crores. The fact margin in Q4 for 25-26 for 10.96%, Q1 of 26-27 is 11.56%. The profit after tax in Q4 of 25-26 was 20.6 crores, whereas Q1 of 26-27 is 22.46 crores. Thank you.

Thank you. We can now proceed for the Q&A session.

Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, please press star and 1 on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Bhavya from Samasa Capital. Please proceed with your question.

Yeah, thank you. Am I audible?

Yes, you are audible.

Yeah, congratulations on the first one. I just wanted to know two things on GLP. Are we also participating in terms of our own brand? And also, has the third-party GLP we were manufacturing started kind of coming into our revenues?

Yes, hi, Prabhupada. So, in terms of GLP-1, specifically, semaglutide, as we have mentioned the calls before, we have partnered up with HETRO. So, HETRO got their permissions in May 2026. Six. So our traction of their revenues was residual in the Q1. But yes, to answer your question, we have started the CMO operations, which will, I would say, take some steam in Q2, but have further steam in Q3. The objective would be CMO in the domestic space on maybe 30% level, but 70%, we hope, at the end of the year, it would be a capacity use for the international market where Hetero and Goofik as a single channel has filed in more than 22 countries. But of course, our revenues would be purely as a CMO. Again, I'm reiterating, we are not going to do any front end, neither in India, neither abroad. We will be using this as a CMO opportunity to support hetero like we did in the past with Remdesivir, and they will be front-ending the product internationally as well as doing CMO in India.

I understand. And also, in the international market, there was a change in model from a distributor led to IT. So, I mean, if possible, can you just explain how that changes things and how that kind of benefits us?

So, can you repeat your question again? I lost your voice in the middle.

No, I was saying in the presentation, you had a specific model for international from distributor led to IP led.

So, can you just say something like that? So, I think I got your question correctly if I understood. So your question is that basically in our presentation we have mentioned, we are going from a B2B as well as to a B2C. In other words, that earlier we used to just manufacture products and give it to certain distributors in the emerging markets. Now our strategy is specifically for markets like Africa, East Asia, as well as South Asia. Africa is where we have a front end, I would say, ambition. So just to add up on that, so we have just recruited around a team which is based in Mexico, one person who's based in, I mean, Africa recruiting for the people, one person who's based in Philippines, and two more people who have an African and a Southeast Asian, I would say, legacy in Mumbai. They will be seated in Mumbai, but of course, traveling 15 days of the month. So gradually what we are trying is, you know, as we have done it in Europe in the past by trying to get our own subsidies made in Ireland and UK, where the marketing authorizations remain with us. In these markets also now, actually not now, but since the last two and a half years, we have been always thinking that we are trying to get our registrations in. So some of our registrations have started coming in, and we hope in this coming year And next year, we should have more registrations in place. So right now would be the best time for us to actually have a separate team. Of course, in some countries, maybe start off with the distributor field first till we reach economic of scale. Wherever we have enough registration and economic of scale, we would like to deploy our own, I would say, field experts, which help us to get a better pricing. So, you know, somewhere if we are getting, let's say, a 50-50, I mean, maybe anything around 40-50% margins, we hope we can push them upwards of 15-20% more when we have our own real force. At the same time, also, the IP and the trademark belongs to us. It's also creating our own IP and, you know, intangible assets going forward. So, that's the strategy which we have started doing since March, once Dr. Raja started coming in last year. We started first in Europe and then this year in emerging markets. So, this recruitment has happened in the Q1.

Okay, that was really helpful. I have a few more questions. I'll get back in. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arav. An individual investor, please proceed with your question.

Hello, I'm audible.

Yes, you're audible.

Sir, I actually wanted to ask, first of all, congratulations on the product. I wanted to ask if you are expecting a certificate for the Europe export. Any update on that?

So, I think in Nafsari, we already have a EU certification, which we already continue to export. The EU certificate, I think what we are referring in a presentation would be for indoor. So, the indoor certificate would, I mean, we are just waiting for the feedback from the authority. There were some complaints which we already have replied since the last two, three months, and even the finalist data also has gone. So, hopefully, in the next, you know, maybe a month or two, we should be hearing something from them.

Okay. And, sir, about the indoor factories, it was unused, it was only used at 30% capacity, right? Are we expecting a jump on that?

Yeah, of course. So, if you see quarter by quarter, the capacity utilization is going up as more and more products for the domestic or for CMO or for our own branch, or for that matter, wherever certain two, three countries which we have been able to go for the transition and I would say site addition, we have already started that. Apart from that, we have taken validation batches. So, in terms of pure capacity expansion, yes, the amount has gone from 18% to 22% last year, 20% to 25% last year. Then this year, close to 30%, 35%, and hopefully, like I said, we should end up the year on around 40%, 45% capacity utilization. So, we are on course for that. Margin expansion using the indoor facility would, of course, come once we have what you call our, you know, EU in place. EU market, EU certification really opens a lot of markets for us, so we are just waiting for that. And also, apart from that, one of our, I would say, partners have also triggered their, I would say, submission for U.S. from our site. So, we expect them also in the next, you know, I would say a quarter or to visit us as per the goal period. So, yes, we are looking for all these movement of export markets, which would help us to not only utilize the capacity, but help us in our margins also.

Yes, sir. Regarding the margins, from June 2023 to, I think, September 2024, we had an operating margin of 18%, but it dropped after that. But now it is 18%. So, is 18% the new normal margin for the year coming?

Yes. And I'm sure Drunkta sir explained this in the last two calls also. Because in the period which you have mentioned, at that time, the total expense of Indore as well as the depreciation and the interest were being capitalized. So, hence, all those factors were, till I believe, October 2024, or that Q3-25 were part of capitalization. And that's why after that, you saw a drop post Q3-Q4-2025. But now, with capacity utilization, with natural business progression, as well as exports, margin expansion, along with domestic business also. So, what you are seeing, as you write, this is, I would say, the start of the improvement of margins going forward, yes.

Okay, sir. Thank you so much. That cleared a lot. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Agam Shah, an investor. Please proceed with your question.

Yeah. Two questions. One, if you can, you know, maybe it's still early, but yet you can elaborate. On the Botox and Tire, which we did last quarter, the Canada Fillers thing, how can it scale up this year in terms of revenue and going ahead? And on the one more question on the GLP one, you said you're doing the CMO route in a partnership. So how much revenue and how much growth can it come this year?

So, the first question being about our aesthetic division, where I think we have done the tie-up last year for the fillers. So, the fillers as a category complement our botulin toxin products, because toxin and fillers are two important tools in the hands of aesthetics, practitioners for their therapy. So, the fillers market in India is around 200 crore. I think this is as per the import data and the data which we have derived from. So, we feel that this filler market is much bigger than the toxin market as of now in India, and anywhere we used to go to meet our doctors, they always expected the same company to have a toxin and a filler. So, this just helps us in our practice, it helps us in our training, it helps in our knowledge, dissemination, and we just didn't want to tie up with any other filler provider. So we are fortunate enough, and my team did a great job that Revenus Prolinium from Canada, who is number two in the U.S., and also present in more than 32, 33 countries in the world, they have selected us to partner with them for India. So, we feel that the revenue would be captured maybe by post-December because we have started the registration process in Q4 last year. So, we feel that maybe by Q2 or mid of Q3, we should get the registration. And we hope at least December, if not December, maybe January, we should launch the pillar in the Indian market. So, our first-year projections are decent, but let's, again, instead of me giving you numbers, I've given you total market numbers, and we hope that with the help of these fillers, we can also not only spend in our number two position, but very close to, you know, very close. We can grab the number one position in terms of toxin and fillers in the next, you know, three to five years in India. So, that answers, I think, part one of your question. Part two of your question is about GLP-1. So yes, in GLP-1, again, I reiterate that our focus is purely on CMO. In the Q1 also, we had a 10 to 15-day plan shutdown because we were introducing the new machine, assuming that in March, HETRO would get the permission. And HETRO got some part of the, I would say, strengths of semaglutide approved in May, and some other strengths also are in the process of getting approved or have been approved last month. I'll check and get back to you. So we hope that the traction will pick up from Q2. Some traction has happened in the month of July. Much more we see in August. We hope there's some, again, media feels annoyed by which, again, the plant will be closed for Friday when there are visits. And Q3 is when we will see the actual traction happen. So, again, in terms of numbers, they would be part of our 15% year-over-year growth, which we always tell to people, and they're already embedded in this. And again, I'm saying our role is purely as a CMO. We have no front-end plans or revenue forecast for the GLP on our own.

Talks also. And are you being conservative when you say you're going to grow by 15%?

You mean 15%? You're going to grow as a company? Yes. I'm not being conservative because there are some products mixed we are also leaving out and we'll be getting away with the low yielding. So, I would say, yeah, 15% to 20% is what we say we should grow year-round year, as overall, as a company.

So, is it that maybe from next year, you will be reaching that inflation to grow beyond 20% or the business asset that will be growing only at 15-20%? So, the thing I am trying to understand is, is it somewhere or is it something, I mean, can we push the pedal and, you know, grow beyond 20%? The scale we are, it does look like, you know, 20% plus is achievable.

All right. So, I think I would love to give you any other comment right now on the call. Otherwise, but our efforts are on to grow much beyond. But 15 to 20% is what we commit to you. That would be a bare minimum.

Okay. Okay.

Okay.

And Botox, are we launching in export markets?

We have started the process of registering the stun-off. Again, Botox is not our brand name. That's Alargan. So, Stanox is our brand name. So, our botulinum toxin, Stanox, and Zarbot, we are in the process of registering in some countries which take around 12 to 18 months depending on the different geographies. But the limitation would be our facility. Our current facility is only WHO phase one with limited capacity. So, we are right now looking to register them only in the Southeast Asian markets, African markets to start off with. For the other viewable markets, we have a strategy maybe post next year once we see further cash flow coming.

Okay, okay. And as a indoor, all the capabilities are now operational or something is yet to come in Q2?

No, indoor as a unit is completely operational. What I think Avic meant from his call that there are different product lines which we'll keep on introducing. So, earlier, Lioply's liquid were introduced in the form of small molecules. There was some GLP-1 validation batch taken last year, last two quarters, and this year in Q1, we have initiated the, I would say, the installation and qualification of the depot as well as the liposomal injection. So, these are just new, new product lines which will keep on being added to the indoor facility. It's not that any new infrastructure or equipment or anything of that sort is good. Any major capex is being done. In the existing capex, we are just adding product lines, nothing else.

Okay, okay.

Yeah.

Got it. Thanks. I'll join you.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, anyone who wishes to ask a question, please press star and 1 on their touchtone telephone. To ask a question, please press star and 1 at this time. The next question is from the line of Mitya Shah from Kamayakya Wealth Management. Please proceed with your question.

Hi, congrats on a good set of numbers. So, I saw in the presentation that there was a mention of a tie-up with a global health organization. So, could you please expand a little bit more on that? What is the opportunity here as you get access to 109 countries?

Actually, Avik, can you refresh me? What was this tie-up about? Is it in which sector?

This was with respect to some of our anti-fungal antibiotics with chai.

Okay, okay. So, yeah, so, for you, there are global types, inward and outward. So, I had to ask this question. Please, pardon me. So in terms of the special type which you're referring is that for the European markets, and apart from the European markets, there are these special markets for the liposomal product where we have signed up with the Chai Foundation for liposomal amphotericin B, and they will help us to access more than 100 markets of the molecule of liposomal amphotericin B. Before that, there are certain bioequivalence studies which will be done. So, we initiated this already last year, and I believe by August or September, we should have the studies ready, and then we'll be filing it for the further submission to WHOPQ as well as the other countries. So, this is a relationship, and we hope that this molecule then be taken up. And this molecule is from Nafsari itself, and now we are in the process of introducing the same to Indore also. Okay, understood.

Yeah, that's it for mine. I just wanted clarification on this. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arvind Arora from A Square Capital. Please proceed with your question.

Hi, thank you for the opportunity. So, with the current capacity, what would be the peak revenue without any further capex? Is it near to 2700, across?

So, I think before I ask Rumta, sir, to answer this question, And just to tell you that the revenue would be depend on the number of vials, the product mix, and all of a sudden several combination is there. However, considering the current, I would say, average revenue per vial, what we already have as per legacy, Runta, sir, will reply to your question.

Basically, if you see the expected revenue from our side, 26-27 will be in the range of around 1100 crores, and you multiply it by every 15% increase over year to year, you are able to get the revenue because 1100 into 15%, 1250, then 1450, then it can go up to maximum it can touch up to 1600 crores with the existing finances.

Okay, because in the one answer, I think it mentioned that we will be closing our capacity utilization by the year-end would be 40 to 45 percent, correct? And if I extrapolate that, then the number would come near to 2700. Yeah, no, actually that's okay. Yeah, sorry, go ahead, Rukta, then I will answer this question.

27? I don't understand, 2700 means?

So, I think I'll come back to what we are referring to. If you see 40 to 45% can be of a 10 ml vial for a pantoprazole, which might be giving us a revenue of around 60 to 80 rupees per vial. However, we are also trying to improve the, what do you call it, the product mix by which we come up with molecules which are costing maybe, you know, anything around 300 to maximum to 1,000, 1,500 rupees per vial. And that's why the introduction of, you know, depo, long-acting injectables, as well as liposuppance. So it'll never be a single category. Always the product makes up all these things. So what Rungta, sir, is trying to say that, you know, Nautari had mostly capped off at around 800 as the total capacity maximum extraction, which was possible. Of course, toxin and penems were the only two blocks, which were not saturated. So we should, we could go to around maybe 900, 950. Of course, in toxin, there is no limitation. It's more about market creation. Otherwise, without toxin, it would be around 800 to 900 crores maximum where the capacity would be maxed out. So in indoor, anything around 800 to a max of around 1,200 crores, depending on the product mix, that's the maximum, I would say, capacity extraction. I mean, I would say revenue extraction possible from the current investment what we have done without any capex. So the total capex is around 300 odd crores. I think XAD is again mentioned in the balance sheet. But we feel that anything around 800 to 1,000 or 800 to 1,200, again, depending on the product mix, the different geographies, and the improvement in product basket, that is possible from indoor. So totally, when I add both of them up, around 800 plus 1,000, it comes to around 1,600 to 2,000 pros is the maximum revenue, which is possible with current product basket and current legacy. If you also refer to our presentation, that's what also we mentioned, that what we were doing as B2B, we are trying to also now change it to B2C. So wherever possible, what we were getting maybe an X price, you're now with us going with our front end into certain markets, hopefully in the next one year, two years, three years, four years. We can get at least 2X, 3X, depending on having our own field force and our own penetration. So that will be another natural progression which adds and also then, you know, in licensing, product mix, new product addition, all that adds furthermore. So answering your specific question, that with no capex, keeping in mind the current product mix, keeping in mind the current realization per value, then we are looking at anything around 1600 to 1800 going forward. But however, efforts are on that with the same infrastructure, we can do a product basket changes by which we can extract that revenue further. So that is how the operation happens. And the capacity, what I mentioned, again, I'll repeat that, that 40 to 45% is where the capacity utilization would be on current product mix, which are mostly 80 to 100 rupees level. We hope that going forward with the product mix changing, we go to around 300 and 400 rupees and eventually then to an average, you know, 500 rupee per wild model, then another, you know, prize benefit or revenue extraction is possible. So this is, I hope, I've given a long answer, but I hope it gives you a good understanding of how the revenue projects, yes.

Yes, yes, fair enough. Thank you, thank you so much, and all the best.

Thank you. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. To ask a question, please press star and one now. The next question is from the line of Ameya from Value Equity. Please proceed with your question.

Hi, Ameya, audible?

Yes, sir, you are audible.

So, my first question is, in recent annual report, I have seen that the company has seen substantial employee addition. So, I wanted to know, what is the strategy here? Is it moving to indoor or as you had initially highlighted on the export side, you are taking in multiple folks. So, what are the kind of targets that are setting in with this kind of employee addition? Okay.

So, yeah, a majority of it would be with the indoor edition as the capacity, I would say, is going up and also as product basket are being added. That would definitely be one of the things. The other things also what we are adding is when in the international market, which we hope the international market would not be more than, I would say, 2025. There are other operational, I think, team members, regulatory team members also comes up. But I would say the majority chunk would be, it would be indoor as well as maybe just, like, say, around 50 to 60 people, which would be added on a domestic business side in terms of domestic expansion.

Okay, and what are the specifics like? Because the kind of addition, do we have in place some kind of metrics that we measure productivity from these incrementally employee additions? Because it's quite a large number for, if I take in context to the previous year's additions, right?

So, one of the reasons it also might be that in certain core areas where we had a strategy in indoor that, you know, we had certain core areas where people were put on training first and they were first part of contract and then they were taken on board. So, you must have seen that transition also happening in terms of the people coming on payroll. So, it's not something which is just added as such on a big way because if you see, our employee cost is still growing at the same percentage. It's just, I think, the certain people on Not only in Indore, but as a strategy in Lausari also, which was earlier for, you know, visual inspection or would be part of our packaging or would be part of maybe a core, you know, which is linked to quality and efficiency. Those people have just been decided to be taken on board to ensure that consistency as well as, you know, the output, both in terms of quality management systems and as well as in terms of quantity is consistent. So, that is one step which we took, which you might have seen that increase last year. But that would be a last-year phenomenon. This year, you would not feel such a huge addition happening on. So, that was a one-time thing.

Okay. And my second question is on the indoor utilization. How do we look at, like, in your mind, what would be the ideal production mix? Maybe over the next couple of years, what's the kind of ideal mix that you're targeting to get a better operating leverage from indoor?

So, if you see now, we have around four lines there. The fourth line is of ampule, which I'll talk separately. The third line is of suspension and liquid wild, which we feel that with certain contracts and certain projects, we should have suspensions and liquid formulation, which would, I hope in the next three years, that would come close to 80% capacity utilization. The first two lines are basic for lyophilization, which is our core business. So there we have, right now we have small molecules, now we are introducing the depo and the liposomal products also from now side to do capacity expansion there. So there also, since we have, you know, out of the two lines, we have total six lyophilizers, where four lyophilizers have 100,000 wild capacity and two lyophilizers have 44,000 wild capacity. The two lios which are 44,000 wild capacity will be one which will be for more high-value complex injectables as well as, you know, even small-volume products in anti-infective or any other critical care space which are very unique in their offerings. And in the four lyophilizers, which are quite big in terms of output, we aim to do also those basic commodity, but at the same time, essential products also from a PPI, from a large-sailing antibiotic to an antifungal and so on and so forth. At the same time, there will be these depot products and these liposomal products, which also will be added on one of those big lyophilizers for capacity expansion, which is where the current validation batches are happening. So we see a product mix of around, you know, like a liquid would be 20% in indoor, a lyophilization would still be around 50-60%. But the remaining 20% would come, 20-30% would come from the, you know, the complex injective is all.

Okay. So would it be fair to say that from a mixed point of view, maybe midpoint of FI28, where we'll be starting the serial operating like the James?

I hope before that, because there are other things also coming in, so I hope before that we can see something, but you mentioned mid-28, right?

Yeah, mid-28, maybe a year out from now for that.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you meant mid-2028 financial, sorry, 27-28 financial. Yes, you can say by mid-27-28 financial, the leverage should start kicking in your eye, yeah.

All right, thank you, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

On behalf of GRUFID Bioscience Group Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.