Kiri Industries Limited (KIRIINDUS) Q1 2027 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Kiri Industries Ltd. Q1 FY2027 earnings conference call hosted by Valorum Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listener remote and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now have the conference over to Ms. Purwangi Jain from Valoram Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and a very warm welcome to you all. My name is Purwangi Jain from Valoram Advisors. We represent the investor relations of Kiri Industries Limited. On behalf of the company, I would like to thank you all for participating in the company's earnings conference call for the first quarter of the financial year, 2027. Before we begin, I would like to mention a short cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today's earnings call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risk and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management's belief as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to the management. Audiences are cautioning how to place any undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any investment decisions. The purpose of today's earnings conference call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company's fundamental business and financial quarter under review. I would now like to introduce you to the management participating with us in the conference call. We have with us Mr. Manish Kiri, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Jayesh Hirani, Vice President, Accounts and Finance, Mr. Suresh Gundalia, Company Secretary, and Mr. Ranjit Singh Chau, CEO. I would now request Mr. Manish Kiddy to give his opening remarks. Thank you and over to you, sir.

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the earnings conference call for the first quarter of financial year 2027. I hope you are all keeping safe and well. Let me begin with an update on our integrated copper and fertilizer project first, which continues to remain at the core of our long-term growth strategy. In the quarter, the project progressed from the design stage into a structured construction phase. Supported by Time's Government of Capital from the Group's Strengthen Financial Position. Orders have been placed for several long-lead mechanical, electrical, and utility packages. of remaining major packages on stage. In parallel, the enabling infrastructure continue to advance in the captive jetty destination facility, dedicated raw material conveying system and projects long-term power infrastructure. The downstream of copper facilities are planned to be commissioned in phases with the copper tube targeted by quarter one, FI 28, Followed by Copper Road Hunt, FY28, and Copper Refinery in Quarter 3, FY29. We are also progressing on our engagement with the international mining companies and global trading houses to establish long-term sourcing arrangements for the copper concentrate and rock phosphate, the key raw materials for the project. While continuing to evaluate opportunities across our downstream value-added product portfolio. Overall, the integrated complex remains aligned with our long-term strategic roadmap, and our focus remains on discipline, execution, and timely achievement of the next project. We now turn to the performance of our existing dyes, dyes intermediates, and basic chemical business. The department for dyes, dyes intermediates industry in the first quarter FY27. Thank you. Our major raw materials took while prices, which increased during the quarter, resulting in higher input and operating costs. However, improved average selling realization... Thank you. The improvement is realization, the driver of Revit. We continue to support the business. During the quarter, the total margin was 31.9% compared to 23.5% in FI 2026.

Thank you, sir. Could you repeat your last question?

During the quarter hours, the marginal margin is 1.9. The improvement was primarily given by favorable pricing officials, with average selling prices rising faster than average raw material prices. We remain focused on maintaining pricing capacity to buy this, wherever opportunities exist, with the sustaining of this level.

On a standalone.

Sorry to interrupt sir, we are unable to hear you.

Unable to clear? Yes sir.

I don't know.

Disturbance.

Disturbance. I think there is a disturbance on the line.

Disturbance online here.

There is continuous disturbance online here. Is it better now? Are you able to hear me?

Sir, can you come more closer to the mic? No, sir, let me just reconnect you.

I think you have to reconnect, there is some problem

in the line, even I hear a lot of noise.

Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management has been reconnected. Yes, sir, please proceed.

Sorry for the disturbance. Now, coming to the financial performance for the quarter, on a standalone basis, revenue from operations for quarter one F by 27 stood at 295 crore, registering a growth of 63% year on year. The growth was primarily realization-led. Supported by improved average selling realizations across dyes, dyes intermediates, and basic chemicals. Sandor on abeta stood at 17 crores, with an abeta margin of 5.86%. Further, other incomes earned during the quarter amounted to 284 crores, which mainly included earnings from the treasury management, Hence, the profit after tax stood at 270 crores. On a consolidated basis, revenue from operations from quarter one FY2027 stood at 312 crores, registering a growth of 55% year-on-year. The growth was laid principally by improved price realizations across the product portfolio rather than by volume. Consolidated EBITDA, including share of profit of associates and joint venture, stood at 37 crores, with an EBITDA margin of 7.84%, with profit after tax at 270 crores. The significant increase in profit after tax during the quarter was primarily driven by strong contribution from other income. Other income stood at 286 crores. This was further supported by improvement in the underlying operating performance, driven by better realizations and better margins. Finance costs reduced sharply following the repayment of borrowings at Claronex Holdings Limited, leaving the group substantially free of external debt. The share of profits from associates for quarter 1 F5-2027 stood at 21 crore, representing a 30% increase over the preceding quarter. The contribution was primarily from Longshin Kiri. In which the company holds 40% equity interest and management control. Looking ahead, medium to long-term outlook for our dyes, dyes intermediate, and basic chemical business remains positive, supported by steady textile demand, tighter global availability, and sourcing trends for favoring non-China supplies. As one of the largest global producers of H-acid, we believe our existing capacity provides headroom to participate in rising demand without significant additional capex expenditure. Sustaining margins, however, will remain dependent on our ability to pass through input cost moments. The fertilizer opportunity is also supported by India's continued dependence on imports. Particularly in DAP, and key intermediates such as phosphoric acid and ammonia. Against this backdrop, the phase commissioning of our integrated complex is aligned with the widening supply gap of both refined copper and phosphoric fertilizers. Our focus remains on sustaining the improvement in our existing chemical business, maintaining a prudent capital structure, And executing the copper and fertilizer projects in a disciplined and timely manner as we build the next phase of growth for Kiri Industries Limited. With that, we can now begin the question and answer session. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touch-tone telephone. From the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use answer while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have a line of Suresh with Barham's financial.

Good morning, sir. I'm Anisha. I'm Suresh. Good morning to you.

Yes, welcome.

You remember, sir? Of course you remember. Yes, yes, sir. If you are also a partner of shareholders in a firm and you did not receive any capital returns or dividend returns, even after 10 years investment, as a fellow partner, as a shareholder, please think about this scenario and make a decision. Please don't take this wrong way. Ultimately, what a shareholder truly wants and deserves is a return on investment. You try to give me dividends. Take my suggestion and request. Don't think wrong. Please try to understand.

Yes, see, a few points to address your question and very well put forward. Number one, we, as you have seen, we have reported one of the strongest quarter in the history of the company in terms of performance. The performance is what the company is saying, and we promise to you, and the performance has, I think, matched or met with the expectations in terms of our growing requirements of capital. Now, number two, with that, as you have already seen, that the company has embarked on executing one of the largest greenfield projects. And looking at requirements of the capital going forward, looking at the new growth trajectory, which we have already highlighted earlier and executing right now, the board of the company, and we all decided to keep the capital to fuel this growth. So, whatever... The company has been waiting on achieving certain performance due to the legal and litigation problem that we faced for a period of 11 years. Now, having that behind us, the growth part has started, and first quarter has shown that growth, and we will continue to improve the performance of the company. So my humble request to you is to look at how the performance is changing, how we are building new businesses. How the capital is prudently deployed. So that's what we would like to focus on. So just to answer, just to answer. in the coming quarters.

In the growth side, in new projects, but in long battle, wait for investors also in the case. You are winning the case. At least you invest a major amount in expansion, but a little bit amount you will give the dividend. Shareholders are also happy, investors, and the stock price will not give the dividend. So many investors in money control rumors, some, you don't think otherwise, some rumors I think management is not conservative, but you will give a little bit of evidence. Almost investors are also happy. That's what you think. You think you have taken both of the recommendations?

Yeah, yeah.

And we have taken your point, your individual point, positively. We, you know, companies are not making its decision based on the rumors or cannot make it with rumors. There are equal number of shareholders who have also contacted a company and informed company that, you know, they are aligned with the company's decision. You know, to grow the capital, to grow the return, and to grow the equity return for the shareholders in coming years, utilizing the funds prudently and properly, correct? So there are equal number of shareholders who are deferring the views presented by your individual view, but we take your inputs positively, and we see how... We are able to, you know, to decide in the best interest of the company and its shareholders, and the larger pool of shareholders.

You have good decision, sir. You take feedback and you submit your board of directors meeting. You have the decision. Thank you. Yes, sir.

Thank you. Mr. Suresh, I would request you to please come back in the queue for further questions. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you are requested to limit your questions to two per participant. The line of the region with Mahavir Fabrik family office. Please go ahead.

I'd just like to know if there is any update regarding the financial closure. And secondly, I also want to know the exact scope of Tata Consulting engineers in the project because when I was surfing their website, I couldn't find our project listed in their list of projects. So, like, I want to know what they are exactly doing as the project managers in our project. Thank you.

So, your second question. It has been deployed as an owner's engineer of the company since the end of last year, and they are involved in project management and control. They are overseeing all the technology transfer in terms of the checking and approving the drawings, the designs, and they are involved deeply in the detail engineering as well. So, there is a larger scope of TCE, and TCE has been on board, you know, from November 2000, from 2025, right? So, that's number one. Number two, financial closure, a complete financial closure has not been achieved. We are there on the debt raising. More than 50% commitments have been received. Rest is in process, and we hope that in the next few months, we should be able to reach the complete financial closure.

The line of Ashit Khotari, an individual investor, please go ahead.

Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Thank you.

I would just wish you a happy Independence Day in advance. And I would want to understand how our copper project is progressing and what is going to be our capital requirement and by what time we will be cash surplus from the project.

Well, happy Independence Day to you as well, and the capital is continuously being deployed in the project, and the total capital requirement as per the current estimate would be around close to 12,000 crores on the project itself, and additional requirements would be related to the infrastructure, the supporting infrastructure that we have been building. So, that is the outflow in phase one. This outflow is continuing to happen over a period of next two years, not easy. So, monthly and quarterly basis, as we have disclosed, the CapEx has been increasing and the funds are being deployed in CapEx. So, that's one area. 2027, part of the facilities will be operational, mainly related to the downstream products of copper, consumer products of copper. And then in 2028, beginning of 2029, the full facilities would become operational. I am

Ranjit Singh Chook, CEO of Indonesia Copper and Metalizer together. At the present, we are focusing on the downstream product so that the capital which has been employed from our own... KT starts giving some returns. So in that regard, a 35 KT plant of tube plant will be operational in June 27. And in August-September 27, 2.25 lakh tons of CCR continual rot plant of 8 mm will be operational. These will be operated from imported cathodes, primarily coming from Japan, because the cathodes which come from Japan do not come on premium. They are pure LME-grade cathodes, costing-wise. Then, and if you look into any such kind of plant startup, it does take some time to stabilize. So, by January 28th, the whole complete, these two plants will be stable, fully operational, stable, and, you know, running in nice things. So, by that time, we'll make our part refinery operational, which will convert anodes to cathode, LME grade cathode, which is part, when we say part refinery, means it will be 1.75 lactose. To complement that, we will be utilizing scrap from various sources, whether ingot, perch, blister, etc. Use our scrap melting permits, which also will be commissioned by December, January 26, 27, 28. So by 28 January, we will have scrap plant started for operation and which will produce anones. We will get converted to LME-grade calcium. So this portion of the downstream will be fully operational. Whatever will be the shortfall of cathode requirement, that will anyway procure from the market. At the same time, we envisage to start another value-added product in the same period, exactly the same period, let's say, a small quantity, but they will add value to our, you know. Value edition will be there. I hope journey will start. Your trial orders, I mean, trial production. The system will be built for 10 KTs, which we call Phase 1. Our aim is to be Phase 1, 2, and 3 to make it 40 KTs, for which we have already gone to the central government to be part of each. Is he a miss? The call will be operational in, I mean, I'm looking at 18, 20, 20 months from now, so if you look at 20 months, March. This is a plant and fertilizers will be operational. These are the typical timelines as of now. We have targets based upon this. It will take a medium 36 to 40 months.

Sir, have we tied up with a raw material requirement for the next couple of years?

Long-term contracts are typically done for. Last year, in the... One is We call them all use, basically. We have a few months prior to our requirement. Thank you. In fact, let me... Thank you. We are having a new use of 1 million to 1. Because last year we did not have... Excited, like now, a thousand people are working, civil and mechanical, and things have come overground. So, this is what is the situation. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mehul Panjwani, with 40 cents. Please go ahead.

Hello. Thank you very much for the opportunity. Am I audible?

Yeah. Yes, please.

Sir, when will we record the first revenue from the copper business in which quarters of FY27?

I think Chookshaab just mentioned it would be somewhere around, you know, first quarter, end of first quarter, May, June, 2027. I mean, so that would be 27-28 financial year first quarter. Q2 will get the... Q2 you will get commercial. Yeah. So quarter 1, quarter 2 you are looking for next financial year.

Okay, and so when will be the complete, you know, overall total? Top line which we are expecting from the copper. When will that be targeted, and by what timeline we are expecting to achieve it?

Financial year, 2029-30.

29-30. That is Q4.

That financial year is the one which will capture majority of the operational revenues. Right. And, sir, how are we placed to service

the debt which we have taken for this project?

So, you know, just addressed by Chooksha, 2027-28 is a financial year where the cash flow will start coming and building. So, from 2027-28, 2028-29 and 2029-30, all three years. The company will start moderately ramping up the cash flow from the step-wise operations that will start. So there will be parallel cash flow coming as well.

Right, sir.

And, sir, where is the site?

Yeah, thank you, sir. Sir, where is the site for the CopperRazi? Are we having multiple locations or it's one site?

One location near Pippa, of course. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, sir, and wish you the very best. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Manoj Kumar with Adinath Financial Services. Please go ahead. Good morning, Manoj Ji.

Always welcome.

Good morning to you. My question was regarding our current business of dyes and chemicals. We have got almost 13, 14 major products in our product line and with huge capacities, and most of the capacity is remaining unutilized, I think. Around 40 percent we are using, 60 percent is still unutilized.

So the last quarter we utilized the average capacity about 60 percent.

60%.

And, yeah, we still have 40% unutilized in various plants combined together.

Yeah, but what can be our ideal situation with 100% capacity utilization? How much can be the turnover and how much can be the profit we can generate? Because around 31% margin is there, material margin is there.

Right, right. So now the market has improved. We have seen the prices have also increased, and we started slowly ramping up the capacities, provided demand support that, correct? And we do not want to compromise the margins on account of just building volume. So it's a cautious approach where we are ramping up, but ramping up profitability, if you look at the... Consolidated a bit of the, you know, of the quarter, probably, you know, with now legal costs behind, as well as the, as well as the improvements in the, in the industry situation. We got 37 crore of, including the, the JV's operations. So that's, you know, that's a good number, if you ask me. And that is where, that's where we would, we would continue to build upon that. So, if the market supports, then from 60% to 70%, 75%, at least, we want to achieve during this year as an average capacity utilization, Marathi.

And these two products, which you were referring to, HSE, then the vinyl cell phone, we have got good capacity, around 7,200 metric ton for HSE, then around 12,000, 13,000, 15,000, I think. I was just calculating the annual turnover from these two products only. Can we achieve a turnover of around 2,000 crore rupees from our DAI's business?

If we are able to achieve close to 75 to 80 percent capacity utilization, and if we are able to sustain the prices which are there currently, because today, adjusted prices is in the range of, you know, 800 to 900 rupees. We have doubled the pricing than the average pricing earlier. Similar situation with Vinayal cell phone also. The prices are almost 70-80% high. No doubt the raw materials have also increased. But if this price is continue for the next one year, then yes, we can have much higher revenue, and the numbers could be even double than the average. That means if you are... The price increase and the capacity utilization improvement, it could.

But why our profitability is so low? Because our own subsidiary, Lonsan Kiri, is having a fantastic result, fantastic EBITDA margin, and fantastic PACT margin also. When I talk about around 368 crore, they have earned around 71 crore rupees EBITDA, and 51 crore rupees PACT. Right. What prevents us from repeating those figures in Kiri?

So, there are different products in JV and different products in Kiri, right? Kiri is selling raw materials to JV, and JV captures the finished products margin. So, when you look at and compare, you know, the supplies of raw materials from Kiri to JV, The markup... And the value-added profits and the margins are captured at the JV level on the finished product. So when you look at the totality of the picture, then you capture the entire value chain margin. So see the entire value chain margin, you have to look at combined operations of ERI and JV. That's one. Number two, there are certain chemistries, certain product ranges, which are prevalent in... J.V. are not in Kiri. So there are, even though dyes are produced at both the ends, the products are different as well. More than 50% of the products are different. For example, J.V. produces Indigo, while Kiri doesn't do it. Similarly, J.V. has... Standalone PD doesn't do it, right? So there are different products. And value added on the finished product. These are the two differentiating factors. So when you look at the total picture, that gives you the correct picture.

We are having 40% stake in Lonsen Kiri, whereas... with us. Can't you replicate those things in Kiri? Add those products in Kiri. Is that exclusivity? Some closure is there.

Operations. We've already run management by Kiri even today itself. Point in creating inter-company competition by replicating what they do to Kiri and destroy the margins in the market. Even though KD may consolidate 40% of long-term KD, Better beneficiary here is, and 60-70% of JV's raw materials anyway go from here is. Thank you. From the operational point of view, from strategic supply chain point of view, I think it is well established, and we don't see any reason. You know, to deviate from... Thank you, sir.

Good morning, Mr. Manish. Congratulations on the result.

Good morning.

Thank you. Sir, the question I had was, maybe this is a repeat or I missed this on Shooksar's commentary. So, given that tube and rod plants are commissioning a quarter apart, does the previously guided 20 to 25,000 crore FI 28 revenue still hold? And the second part to that question was, what is the basis of making the projection? Do we already have an established sales channel, a customer base, etc.?

Number one, that number is dynamically moving number. So that 20-25,000 of revenue in 27-28 doesn't hold. Let me first clarify that. And, and, and, and a lot of, uh, is, Installation and delivery of the machinery depends on the vendor's timeline, and that also keeps moving. And that is precisely the reason that every quarter we keep updated on the progress, and that is how we will also keep informing you as and when the revenue projections become clearer and clearer. So that's one. in India at 1.8 million tons, almost two-thirds of that requirement has met by imports, correct? Output of of the facility only to substitute import. Sales is not a challenge. And now, but of course we need to have the quality approved. We need to go through the, you know, the approval process from the customers. But selling is not a challenge. We have established current channels to It's not a challenge. As long as we are able to produce and as long as we are able to secure the raw materials, we don't see sales as a constraint to generate travel.

Understood, sir. Thank you so much. So, just one question is, I just want to understand what is the role of the marine jetty? Because if I'm not mistaken, our plant is slightly intimate, still close to the port. So, I just want to understand what is the role of the marine jetty?

So near the port is separate. Get it, jetty. It's important because of our bulk imports and continuous imports of products like copper concentrate. And, and, and bulk handling at the. Antenarized cargo is being handled there. So, we are almost here to... Thank you. Operational cost.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Cautical Caria with...

Sir, thank you for my question. Sir, I just wanted to know what is the update on the MCB Copper Gold project, where have we reached to sort of acquire the mine?

Right. So, we are already now a part of, you know, MCB Copper Gold project, and the development of that mine is, you know, The design has already been completed. Currently, if you look at various announcements in the public domain, there is... We have disagreements on certain areas, which are currently being addressed, and a good part is that there are many financing offers received by the project, and we got regular updates from the project as well, that the development of the project and the participations in the development for financing the project is also quite positive. Over the end of the year, we get good news of projects completing their financial closure and start the development of the project. But it's quite positive. And they are on it. We are not actively involved in terms of the management or operations there. We are providing our inputs there, but we continue to monitor and watch.

So, right now, what should we assume? Will we get access to the off-take out there? Is it a high probability?

No, no, we have already structured 70% of the off-take to come to us. That was the key.

No, but... Okay, so there's no chance of the thing not coming to us, like, because I think Celsius is still sort of litigating.

Yes, there are several disputes and litigations ongoing right now, and Celsius is objecting it is uptake. But I think based on the overall assessment of the situation and looking at sales... You know, continuous attack on the other shareholders there. It seems that the matter has been now put to the court and we should have some clarity on that as well. But as far as the majority shareholders are concerned and our earlier discussions are concerned, which we still hold and we are hopeful that, you know, that Chelsea's... It's trying to derail the development of the project doesn't, you know, doesn't put, you know, doesn't put kind of, you know.

We are still sort of in process. We don't have, like, access to either 40 or 60%. Like, what is the worst case scenario in this? Because this is very important. If this is in place, then we have access to, you know, proper concentrate, which is everyone's doubt. So what is, like, if you're comfortable to answer that, sir, right?

Not this juncture. So, as you know, the matter is subjudized, right? And because the matter is subjudized and Celsius is in the court, we would not comment something, you know, that the court is looking into, because it would be rather speculation from our side, correct? And as you are aware, you know, once the quarter spot decides on the matters involved... Then we will have more clarity. I would not speculate something, you know, before the judiciary makes the decision on the shareholder situation first. Correct? And let that be sorted out, and Kiri continues to remain a lender. The position of Kiri is still a lender today. Correct? And we continue to remain a lender. All things are sorted out, so that we can, if our money needs to be returned, it's to be returned, if the benefit is not secure. Right, let me, so that's the way we are looking at it. So we are sure that if the development of the, but we continue to provide our commitment to the project, we continue to support the project. And we continue to make sure that whatever needs to be done on the ground to support the project, to develop the mine, we are fully supporting. While Celsius has not been, you know, supporting to the, you know, as a shareholder what they should be doing. So actually we are fulfilling the mine's commitment, you know, and we hope that it's being looked at positively by the stakeholders as well as by the partners.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Vivek Joshi, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Yeah. Hi. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Thank you. I just wanted to get some more idea on the corporate project. We had requested earlier also that if you can give us the update as to the capital employed and stuff on the corporate side, it would be very useful. Can you give us an update as to how much capital is there and how much is equity and how much is debt among the current balance sheet?

You mean on the total project or currently it is all equity inclusion?

Currently, as on the balance sheet, how much of the capital is allocated to the proper project?

So, today the total capital deployed in the project. $1,400, right? Till now.

That's all is equity or is it like half equity, half equity?

No, no, that's all equity right now.

You still have some loans, so whom are we lending money now?

Do you still have loans? You mean the borrowing? No, we have given loans to people. These are all part of the treasury activities that we do. Okay. And some of the loans are inter-company loans.

Hi, sir. Just a follow-up question on earlier. The thing is, you are saying that all the margins have been passed on to Lonsan Kiri. But what's actually, have you considered tax impact, sir? So what happens is, now since you are passing on the margin to Lonsan, they are, suppose they are earning 100 rupees, and 25% is paid as tax, then later on 70... No, Lanshan Kiri pays, no, assume their turnover would be 100 rupees, then later on they pay some tax, then net profit of Lanshan Kiri would be 75, then later on Lanshan Kiri declares dividend, and that 75 we receive, then again later on Kiri again pays 25 tax, 25% tax on this other income. Don't you think there will be a 40% tax effectively, sir, on whatever net that we are?

If you look at, you know, the transactions between the companies, it's all arms-length transactions, number one. And we have to be conducting arms-length transactions complying the law, correct? So whatever, you know, whatever raw materials are supplied from Kiri to JV, Those are, again, arms and transactions, and then whatever earnings that happen at the JV, that happens at JV. If you look at the last, I mean, the quarter's number. Profits are generated, right? So if they are generated at JV level, they are at the JV level. If they are generated at Kiri level, they are at the Kiri level. You know, and then whatever tax applicable at each level, we pay that tax. That's how we should be working, correct?

So is there any update on stake sales, sir, regarding 41st stake sales? There were talks earlier.

No, there is no talk. There is no such discussion.

Sir, my second question is with respect to, like earlier, you had guided us 1,000-1,200 crore EBITDA for FI 2728. So, basically, sir, if, sir, on what basis is the assumption made, sir? For example, in 2728, if we process rods and cubes hardly have an EBITDA margin of.

Right. So, if you do a simple math, right, it all depends on when the facilities become operational. And there is no hard line here, and I just mentioned earlier as well. The projections are changing. They will keep changing based on the timelines to make the facilities operational. So, as I referred earlier, these numbers will change, and these numbers are not the numbers which are numbers on the existing established commercial operation. We are projecting something where there is a moving target on starting and establishing commercial operations. So you need to take that variation, you know, into consideration, number one. Number two, even if you, even if you, you know, do one lakh ton in today's price. Just to 15,000 crore of revenue, just from 1,000,000. And if you make 6% on it.

How will 6% be made, sir? When you are purchasing cathode from outside now, sir, how can 6% be captured on only stand-alone rod and tube plants?

I think you should study what are the price structures for the products, such as copper. LME plus operations in the downstream products, you will see these kind of numbers.

Perfect. Thank you. Thanks a lot, sir. But last question, sir. With respect to MMCI, would we be still interested in being a PDAP partner or would we be attaining some stake in MMCI mind, sir?

We would. We would definitely be interested, 100% interested, and it depends on how the overall situation resolves, you know, from the litigation perspective. Sure. Thank you. Thanks a lot.

Next question comes from the line of Arijit Malakar with Ashika Stock Services, please go ahead.

Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I have two questions. The first question is that for your copper business, for which companies, mining companies, you have tied up for their long-term sourcing?

There are leading miners and traders. They are global companies. We would not be mentioning everyone's name here because there are confidentiality involved in the agreement, but they are the leading providers of the sources of copper.

My second question is that, sir, you have told that the maximum revenue from the copper

Based on, because today the company has not done any drawdown on the debt, right? And considering the moratorium which has been allowed, the debt repayment will start somewhere in 2029, not before that.

Thank you. That's all from me.

Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Manoj Kumar from Aadhinath Financial Services. Please go ahead. Manoj Kumar, welcome.

Welcome back.

My suggestion was, why don't we structure Indo-Asia fund requirement from equity? Because market is very good and our financial strength is very good. So that we don't have to take any loan whatsoever. Well, then the return on equity will reduce if we don't do that. Why it will serve? When it is a huge project and the profitability will be very good. And we have already issued shares at the rate of 278. Last announcement was made from Indo-Asia at the rate of 278. Then we can command a very good premium in the market. If we issue share at around 500-700 rupees, depending on the market demand, we can have enough money to fund our prices.

There's definitely an option there. There's definitely an option there.

So that we are not at all burdened with any loan repayment, term loan, whatever it is. We are free from all those themselves.

Look at the numbers, and I agree with you from the angles that you have just mentioned, and it would actually, it would help the management also to have lesser stress, isn't it, you know, on the...

And essentially, we have taken an equity infusion in Indo-Asia also from one roundabout. Why don't we take all those persons who are interested to invest?

Right.

We can... So, we have...

So, here is the answer to you. So, we definitely have that option, and we have tested water. Without diluting to the call. and then dilute. There is a huge delta upside for the shareholders of Kiri. That means that the value creation by deferred dilution post-execution of the project would be much, much higher. So that value capturing for Kiri shareholders would provide more benefit to the shareholders. And with that in mind, to look at the larger interest of the shareholders' value creation, you know, we are putting a capital structure what has been decided today. But again, as you have said, there is always an option to do that and complete the financial requirements if we need. And there is enough interest for that. We have tested. We have invited and we have seen the real infusion. So that is there. That is there. That is there as a plan B. But we see how we can progress from here.

Regarding our Odisha foray, one interview, the MD of EpiCol has stated that Kiri is participating in some agrochemical complex. We have Dhamraput.

Right.

What is the experience of that?

There has been discussion on certain chemical projects, the large one, which we would not embark on right now, till we make the existing projects operational. But it's part of our long-term vision, and you know, any approvals also take time. There are certain, you know, chemicals, specialty chemicals that we have looked at. Again, those are part of the import substitute and import replacement requirements for the country. But it's quite far currently. So it's all preliminary stage and where we have serious interest to develop a large chemical complex somewhere near port. The government has given. Execution, you know, will be sequentially and not parallel.

That was the last question for today. I now have the conference over to the management for their closing comments.

Thank you all for participating in this conference call. I hope you are able to answer your questions satisfactorily and at the same time offer insights into our business. If you have any further questions or would like to know more about the company, Please reach out to our investor relations managers at Valenum Advisors. Thank you, and wishing you all a great day ahead. Happy Independence Day to all. Thank you.

On behalf of Kiri Industries Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.