Piramal Finance Limited (PIRAMALFIN) Q2 2027 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q2 and H1 FY2027 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by Pyramil Finance Dimitri. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchstone form. Please note that this conference is being recorded. The result materials are available on the exchange and the company's website, and you may refer to them during the discussion. Please note that today's discussion may include certain forward-looking statements, which must be viewed in conjunction with the company's risk and uncertainty for the company's basis. These statements are based on the management's current expectations and are subject to uncertainty and change. On the call today, we have with us Mr. Anand Piramil, Chairman, Mr. Jairam Shridharan, MD and CEO, Mr. Rupain Dravidi, Group President, Mr. Yesh Nadkarni, CEO, Wholesale Lending, Mr. Vikas Singhla, CFO, and Mr. Ravi Singh, Head, IRM Strategy. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anand Piramil for his comments. Thank you and over to yourself.

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today on this call to discuss Q2 FY27 results of Piramal Finance. I hope you and your families are enjoying the ongoing festive season, and I wish you all happiness and prosperity. An important announcement before we get into Q2 results discussion, I'm delighted to welcome Mr. Dinesh Kumar Khara. Mr. Khara has been one of the most respected CEOs in the financial services sector. During his tenure, the market cap of SBI moved from $20 billion to $90 billion at a Kegar of 47%. During his career, particularly as chairman of SBI, he strengthened one of India's most important financial institutions and expanded access to formal banking and credit for millions of Indians. His experience, judgment, and deep understanding of financial services will be invaluable, and we look forward to his counsel and guidance. With that, let me now begin with a few observations on the macroeconomic environment and take you through our performance during the quarter. India's financial sector has remained resilient and geopolitical upheavals. NBFC gross NPAs have declined significantly over the last few years alongside robust credit growth, particularly among upper-level institutions. This resilience reflects the strength of the broader Indian economy. International institutions like IMF have revised India's GDP growth projections for FY27 and FY28 upwards, supported by robust consumption, capital expenditure, and stable forex reserves. However, rising global inflation will exert pressure on India's cost of capital. H2FY27 is likely to see a broad-based increase in borrowing costs in line with the RBI's shift from a neutral stance to calibrated tightening. Nevertheless, we do not expect any notable slowdown in borrowing activity with liquidity conditions remaining adequate. Emerging Global Risk We're in close monitoring, particularly rising U.S. and Japanese sovereign bond yields and the prospect of crude oil prices remaining high for longer, which could amplify inflationary pressures and tighten global financial conditions. Moving on to our company's Q2 performance. Our growth AUM now stands at 98.5% of total AUM. In Q2, growth AUM increased by a healthy 30% year-on-year. Total AUM grew by 24% year-on-year to 1,13,112 crores. The Q2 FY27 ROAUN of growth business was at 2% annualized, 34 bps, higher than 1.7% ROAUN in Q2 FY26. In Q2 FY27, our PAT was up 67% year-on-year to 545 crores with underlying growth business. PBT of Rs 538 crores. Thus, our H1 FY27 PAC is also up 67% year on year and crossed the 1,000 crore mark. Asset quality was stable and healthy across both our retail and wholesale businesses, and we share more details later on this call. In Q2, we completed a total equity fundraise of Rs 3,850 crores, including a QIP of Rs 2,100 crores and preferential allotment of warrants of Rs 1,750 crores to the promoter group. This was our first fundraise as Piramal Finance. And we are encouraged to see the response to QIP in terms of demand from investors and an eventual participation of several marquee domestic and international investors. In September, we completed five years since the merger of DHFL in September 2021. In every possible way, this merger has proven to be a transformational one for the company. It provides us a platform on which we could steadily build up further. The acquired product suite of mortgages and real estate lending has expanded to more than 10 key product categories, diversified across secured and unsecured retail and mid-market corporate lending. Good morning, everyone. In five years, post the merger, our branch network and employee base has further grown by 3x, while EUM have grown 5x in five years from 23,000 crores to 1.1 lakh crores for the growth business, making us one of the fastest-growing retail finance stories in the country. While a large part of what we recorded on day one of the merged balance sheet has naturally run down, imprint of this arguably is the most consequential F.S. mergers of India is visible across our businesses' balance sheet and P&L. In these years, we made gains of more than 3,000 dollars from DHFL's stress book. The large pool of long-term, low-cost fixed-rate borrowing rolled over from us while DHFL continues to support a liabilities base. There is a tax yield of 16,000 crores of assessed carry-forward losses, mostly arising from DHFL, still available to us. As the youngest MBFC among India's upper-layer MBFCs, we are privileged to be serving over 6.5 million customers across semi-urban India, combining physical distribution with technology and AI in our processes. With a AA-plus rating and demonstrated retail-led diversified business model at scale, we are confident in our ability. To deliver steady and healthy earnings growth. With that, I'll hand over to Jaram to share more details on the results.

Thank you. AUM growth in financial year 27. Over the medium term as well, we expect our AUM to double every three years, implying an AUM of 1.5 lakh crores by FY28. EUM Now. The Ironia. Again, quarter. Eronia. If you look at slide 25, which has product level details, Do not add any food. Heart hit on leverage. It's life insurance product. HFL merger.

September 2026. Average ticket size of the book was 55 crore, and average yield of the portfolio was 14.1%. During the second quarter, we dispersed 2,615 crore across 91 separate transactions, including 41 new transactions and 50 transactions, which were sanctioned in the previous quarters, but were partly dispersed during this quarter. Pre-payments continue to be elevated as we received 1889 crore or about 72% of the disbursed amounts during the quarter. Due to higher rate of pre-payments to date, about 74% of our contractual repayments due in FY27 have already been paid by our borrowers to us as of today. The strong pre-payment trend continues as we have seen over the past few quarters as well and is proving to be a growth headwind for our wholesale business. Also highlights robust portfolio performance. Separately, our legacy AUM decreased significantly by 780 crore, or 32% quarter-on-quarter, leading to an AUM of 1,673 crore, which is now just 1.5% of our total AUM, as Jairam alluded to earlier. With sharply falling share of legacy book, we expect to discontinue its separate disclosures after the December quarter. The chunky reduction in legacy book in Q2 was PBT neutral. We carry ECL provision of 459 crore of the legacy book. With this, I'll hand over to Vikash to cover financials.

Thank you, Yash. Moving to our financial performance. In Q2 FY27, we reported consolidated net profit of 545 crore as against 327 crore in Q2 FY26, which is up by 60%. The format PBT for growth business stood at 538 crore in Q2 FY27 versus 344 crore in Q2 FY26. The net income margin for company level is at 6.5% which is up 35 base point year on year and flat quarter on quarter. Growth business name was 6.8% vs 6.9 in Q2 FY26. And 6.8% in Q1 FY27. The capital raise in Q2 had a positive impact of 5 base points on our NIM. Our total income thus grew 33% year-on-year to 1767 crore. Operating expense growth was contained at 13% year-on-year. Pre-provisioning operating profit thus grew by 64% year-on-year to 846 crore. Growth business credit cost was 1.5% vs. 1.6% in Q1 FY27. In Q2, along with the election in legacy book, we had profit and loss gain of 90 crore from recovery in legacy business. With this, company's overall credit cost was at 1.1% vs. 1.8% in Q1 FY27. Our total GNPA and NNPA were at 2.4% and 1.7% respectively. Our network stands at 31,180 crore. Our capital adequacy is at 20.1% at the end of September 2026. In Q2, the QIP added almost 200 base points to our capital adequacy. It also had a positive impact of 5 BIPs on our ROAUM. And it led to reduction of just 0.1x in our Q2N leverage. We are confident to stay comfortable on capital adequacy over next few years, while funding our growth and expanding the leverage. As discussed in previous quarter, there are opportunities of non-dilutive regulatory capital released in our balance sheet, likely over next 12 to 24 months. That combined with our recent capital days implies enough runway for growth capital for some years. With these remarks, I would now like to open the floor for questions. Thank you.

Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and then 1 on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and then 2. Participants are requested to use hand tips while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and 1 to ask a question. We have the first question from the line of Shriya Shivani from Nomura Securities. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity.

I have two questions. First is on the cost of funds. Now that we are officially in the rate hike cycle, what is our view on what product segments will we be passing on the higher rates to our end customers? When will we do it? Will we wait for another NPC before we take that decision? Any color around that would be helpful. My second question is on the yield movement. So there has been a significant sequential decline in the legacy book. However, the yields were sort of flattish between 1Q to 2Q. Is it fair to say that once it's completely out of the base from 3Q onwards, it will start showing up in the yields? Any thought process around that? And sorry, one more question. The third question is while your asset quality trends, which is slide 23, is stable, But if you see the vintage risk, there is a slight pickup in probably the digital loans and the housing loans. I guess the housing loans probably is explained by the IT sector employees, if that's correct. Any other color around that would be useful. Thank you.

Perfect. Great question. Thank you, Shreya. Question number one, cost of funds and passing it on to customers. on rates when our PLRs increase, which will happen once our cost of borrowing falls. So essentially, we will wait for our cost of borrowing to fall, which will take a little bit of a lag. After that, there will be a little bit of a lag before we pass. 50% of our assets, roughly, are going to be of this variety where we can pass on, mostly our home loans and loan against property customers. So, I don't expect anything being passed on yet. We need to first see the impact on our cost of borrowing. If it starts increasing, then we will go ahead and increase rates. Otherwise, you shouldn't expect to see much action on that product. Your second question was on risk, right? Oh, NIM. Okay, yield. And what happened to yields and why didn't yields go up if legacy book came down? To some extent, your hypothesis is correct, but also there's a simpler explanation, which is a simple technical explanation, which is that number of days in this quarter was higher by one day compared to the previous quarter. That takes away almost 11 basis points of yield if calculated for the retail business. And since mostly our book is retail, that shows as a compression in NIMP. It's not real. So don't worry about it. It's just optical based on the number of days. Your third question was on risk, and particularly you spoke about...

Slide 24 in Egypt.

By the way, in digital loans, 90-plus percent of our lending is on FLDG. So anyway, it's not credit risk on our book. Whatever increase happens here, unless we breach the 5%, it's basically... So I'm not worried at all on the digital lending side. Your catch on housing loss is absolutely the right one. That is appropriate to look at. That is a real increase. That has actually happened there. There is one big case. There is a 4 crore case from Q2 of FY26, which turned out to be fraudulent. which is there in that number. So that number is ticked up because of that one case. I expect the number to come back down in Q2 because we are seeing the Q2 numbers at the nine-month level. They are looking a lot better. So I expect that that number will come back down. But that one is a real uptick driven by one fraud case.

Right, that's useful. Sir, on the commentary that you made on the gold loan, that you know the gold loan disbursals are towards customers and deep 90 plus, etc. Any thought process around your own strategy? I mean, how are you thinking about it?

So, depending on how you count, on a gross disbursement basis, anywhere from 15 to 20, 23% of gross disbursements in gold loans over the last year have happened to customers who are 90 days plus past due on at least one of their life rates. It's a shockingly high number. That number for Piramal for October so far is less than 1%. We do not disburse. We just don't do it, even though that's almost a fifth of the market today. So, of course, we are a very, very, very small player in gold loans. We just started. We are going to compromise, so it's less than a percent of our disbursements.

Okay, this is perfect. Thank you, and all the best.

Thank you. Thank you, Shri.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Renish from ICIC Security. Please go ahead.

Yeah, hi, Congress team for the good set of numbers. So just two things, you know, again on this vintage risk slide. So when we look at HLN lab, you know, both these segments, we have seen a very stark increase in 90 plus, you know, on sequential basis. So just, you know, wanted to know what is happening here.

I mean, I heard you on this, you know, isolated issue on the

actual side, but more specifically in the lab, you know, what is happening. And also when we look at the used car also, you know, there is some increase. So just wanted to understand, you know, why our new book asset quality is basically inferior to our period and book quality.

Uh, I'm not sure where, like, see, if you look at page 24, you can see the small uptick in housing loans and kind of, kind of in lap as well. Everything else is going down. So, All numbers are down, not up. So, new business quality is all significantly better than it has been. Unless I'm misunderstanding your question.

Yeah, so I will just maybe repeat my question. So, sir, I'm referring to your slide number 23. And in, you know, that's... In that slide, if we look at the used car loan, right, which is 5% of the book, there, last three quarters, our 90 plus is 1.2%, which is flat. But when I look at the vintage risk slide, the same, I mean, the segment used car, there the 90 plus is actually running higher than the book quality, I mean, the period and book. I'm just wondering, does that mean the incremental business is being booked at, you know, inferior 90 plus?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I understand what you're saying. This is a different metric. So, see, when you look at a full stock, what happens is you have clients who are zero days, kind of zero months on book, one month, two months, three months, seven months, all the way to nine, 10, 11, 12, and then, you know, 23, 24, 25, etc. 12 months on book is about the peak of where risk is going to be at its peak, right? But the full portfolio, when you see it, it'll have both the peak as well as a bunch of non-peak, you know, vintages out there. And hence, the portfolio numbers are going to be lower. The horizontal metric essentially just shows...

Okay, okay, got it. So, it's on a rolling basis, right?

It's on a rolling basis, absolutely right.

Ah, okay, okay, okay, got it. Got it, got it, got it. No, I thought it was a static pool, 12 months, and not rolling. But I understood completely, sir. Thank you so much. And again, you know, going back to the same question, what Shrey has asked on the name side, right? So again, when we look at the growth business name, which is at 6.8%, and when we look at the company name, it is 6.5. And also, you know, as per our Sidemar 51, the legacy book share is just 1.5%. So just wanted to know, you know, optically, maybe over next two to three quarters, your growth name should be the company name, which is obviously 30 business points higher. So does that give you a natural hedge against the rising rate cycle? And hence, you know, despite the rising rate, our name actually should expand. From here on, you know, the only reason being legacy book coming down.

That is absolutely correct. Mathematically, that is bound to happen.

So, we are not too worried on the rising rate cycle.

Not really. I mean, you know, I don't want to be too cocky about this, but there is no, in our business, there are two or three natural hedges that exist on this, you know, on the rate cycle. One is this legacy book. The other is our recent ratings, and hence... Ratings upgrade and our incremental cost of borrowing is significantly lower than what our book is and what our retiring debt cost is. These two things are material items which provide a natural hedge against a rising rate cycle.

Got it, got it. And maybe just the last thing, so given, you know, we also heard one of the largest, you know, prime housing financiers increasing their PLR rate, you know, just in the month of October, and if that happens, then is that upside risk to our name?

Not really. See, I don't expect us to raise rates for customers. Because our rates don't increase. So, it would be unfair for me to just pass on a rate increase to customers when I'm not seeing that rate increase. So, in our case, we will increase or we will increase to our customers.

Okay. Okay. Got it. This is very helpful and best of all.

Thank you.

Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Abhisheer Devrewal from Motila Loswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Hi, sir. Thank you for taking my question. First, a clarification. If I look at our consolidated P&L, we have reported loan loss provisions and pay value loss in about 300 crores. While if I look at our group business, there is a credit cost upwards of 400 crores. So, just trying to understand, is there some write-back from the legacy book, or is it some other business subsidiary which is contributing to this?

No, no, it's all legacy book. Legacy book.

So, basically, write-backs.

Exactly. The write-backs that we come, which we are using to create other buffers elsewhere.

Got it. Very much. Second question that I had was around liability, while in the last two participants, you remember, they were all asking about margins and how they could tend in a rising rate cycle. But I could also see in one of your studies, you have mentioned, you have about 29,000 crores of debt coming up for maturity next year, which are at a higher rate than your incremental cost of borrowings. So even that should... At least that maturing debt should bring down your cost of borrowings, because irrespective of where your incremental is, there is also an element of...

Yeah, yeah. So, Subhani, I am very straightforward, Abhiji. In the 9.1, we are maturing, we are borrowing at 8.4, we are borrowing at 8.4, there is a gap of 60-70. I mean, the rate is increasing, but my maturity is still working. So, my gross cost of borrowing of the stock...

Right. Got it. This is also clear. And lastly, so now if I look at this quarter, we have reported a 2% kind of ROI for our growth business, and we have given out an exit quarter target of about 2.5%. And the long-term goal is to take it above 3%. So now, with the retail, OPEX to OEM already settling below 3.5, credit cost stable at 1.5%. What are going to be the key incremental levers to bridge this gap from current 2% to 3% over the longer term? Basically, what I'm trying to understand is how much of this improvement can come from operating leverage, margin expansion, product mix, credit costs.

Yeah, so the... Let us just look at the growth economics. We believe there's another 30, 35 paisa that is possible. It's 36% insecure, right? Over the coming, uh, That will continue to happen. That will continue to push the margins.

which is a high-yield product, and all these will come at the cost of mortgage product, which is low-yielding.

Got it. So, basically, the mix, not just secured and unsecured, but also gold, which is secured, but higher yielding and higher margin.

Got it.

Jaram, so last thing, when you look at the bureau data, are you seeing increasing delinquencies, particularly in lower ticket size notes? And I'm just not referring to any particular products, but across products, lower tickets, fairies, loans, are you seeing delicacies in China?

You saw this very strongly in 2024, right, calendar year 24. You saw risk increases in the small ticket and not as much risk increases in the large ticket. That sort of shape of... Which is small tickets are much higher risk than large tickets. That shape has persisted throughout. It has not changed at all. Even today, the small ticket in any product, whether it is PL, HL, LAB, just pick any product, it doesn't matter. As you go up to a higher ticket size, risk is actually decreasing, right? Right, and the... The situation is a little bit different in gold loans, where... Before, it's slightly less steep now.

You got it. That's all I have. Thank you so much for answering the questions.

Thank you, Abhij.

Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Nishjant Chavate from Kotak. Please go ahead.

Hi, Nishjant.

Hi, Jaram. Just a short one. If I look at your market link, sorry, market rate link borrowings, so these would largely be linked to repo, right?

No, no, we almost have nothing which is linked to repo, but repo has a very direct impact on, you know, the 10-year GSEC or some of the other rates in the market. Repos are directly linked, almost no one is borrowing.

Got it. And MCLR linked, you know, which is I think around one-third, these would largely be linked to one year or one month?

It's largely one year, but we have some six months also.

Okay. Because, you know, when you say that, you know, last time around, I know you mentioned that the rate transmission took almost a year, and then, you know, you took, I think, a couple of months after that to transmit the rates. But, you know, looking at this profile, it appears that probably the transmission could be much faster this time.

Yeah, so basically the last, when I say last cycle, I actually mean the down part of the cycle. Down part of the cycle may generally transmission takes longer. Up part of the cycle transmission happens a little bit quicker. So you should expect to see that. Market rates are already big. But the way we are combating it and the way you see many others combating it as well is reduce market. Thank you very much. The markets have directly shown the increase in rates or reflected the increase in rates.

Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and 1 to ask a question. We have the next question from the line of Anand Dhamma from Nuwama Wealth Management Limited. Please go ahead.

Hey, hi, congratulations on the great set of results. Hey, I had a question related to ROEVM. You know, you said that there are multiple levers which will drive the ROEVM to about 2.5%. How confident you are now that we have already entered into a rate cycle to get to that 2.5% EVM. And one and then second is that, you know, next year we have a headwind in terms of insurance commission capping. You said that there are mitigants which are available. So should we then in that case look at a flattish kind of ROEM in FY28 given that we have this admin from the Insurance Commission capping or you have a better number to write over there.

Sure, because you want to take the 2.5 Vala question and then I'll take the insurance. Carry on, carry on. Okay. All right. Vikas is being shy. See, 2.5% in Q4, we feel fine. I don't think there is much anxiety that we have around it. We feel pretty good, and we have all the levers that we think we need to deliver 2.5% in Q4 of this year. For next year, we have not, of course, offered guidance yet. I did mention the 18 to 24 BIF gross impact. If we are able to mitigate it somewhat, let's say half of it we are able to mitigate it, that is still meaningful. Our hope would have otherwise been to actually get pretty close to the 3% number as we exit next year. But now with this, we have to now recalibrate ourselves. Let's see. Let's see what we come up with. We will be close enough as we exit the year. I don't know whether we'll get all the way there or not in light of the insurance capping thing, but we'll have specific guidance to offer in Q4. As of now, for the second half of this year, our conference levels are fairly high.

And we have not factored any impact of rate cost of borrowing to be come down. Even if the rate continues at the current level, we are confirmed to achieve 2.5% for the exit Q427.

So our cost of borrowing.

Yeah, correct.

Also, the insurance capping is a draft yet. It's not still come into as law and policy, so we have to see what happens. Sure.

And any initial discussions which are had with the regulator and because you also have insurance companies, I'm sure you'll have a far better understanding in terms of like where the draft rules could be basically liberalized. Any thoughts for that?

Yeah, I think we are having conversations at multiple levels with the regulators, both as ourselves, as PML Finance, but also as PLI, our life insurance company. So we have had multiple rounds of conversations and we continue to have. We will, of course, also be formally giving in our feedback next week to the regulator as asked for. The NVFC industry together is giving a representation as well through FIDC, so we are participating in that as well. So multiple levels of representation are happening. The IRDH-1 has indicated openness to listen to the feedback, and we also, I'm sure, his comment that the intent was not to do anything very dramatic or very disruptive. What happens? I mean, your guess is as good as ours at this point.

Okay. Can the current environment is good enough for you to grow into unsecured loans? Or you believe that maybe you'll just wait and watch and then press the pedals? I mean, any thoughts over there for most of the unsecured loan products that you do?

I mean, you've seen us for a while. You know our philosophy on this. We don't take macro costs. We take decisions based on how the micro looks, how each sub-segment is looking like from its delinquency trends perspective, etc. And based on that, we... What our credit criteria are. that we are seeing in many sub-segments in unsecured. So, our credit filtration changes are resulting in higher growth rate in that segment. If tomorrow, at the micro-segment level, you know, risk starts moving in the other direction, our processes automatically will cut down growth rate. We won't have to make any macro choice in that regard.

Sure. And lastly, what percent of your portfolio will be linked to rural customers directly or like indirectly?

So, we have about 2,300 pros or something in exposure, which is primarily in the rural segment.

Okay, that's it. Thanks, thanks.

Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and 1 to ask questions. We have the next question from the line of Rakesh Kumar from Valenti's Advices. Please go ahead.

Hi, Rakesh.

Yeah, hi. Yeah, hi, sir. Just a few questions on the interest rate movement. So firstly, like we have 60% of borrowings on a floating basis. So 60% of borrowing on the floating basis and 50% of assets on floating basis. So this difference of 10%, so does that mean that we would increase our lending rate by the higher pace as compared to the increase in the borrowing cost that we are going to have?

Just look at the absolute values. There is 56,000 crores of assets, which are variable rate, and there is 51,000 crores of liabilities, which are variable rate, which essentially means that I have more assets where I can reprice up than liabilities where I will get repriced up. So essentially, it's positioned well for a rising rate environment.

Okay. Secondly, this, you know, great rating improvement that we are, you know, we are anticipating and which might be going to happen. In the rising rate scenario, how well we are, you know, positioned, like, with this event happening, so how much really would this help us, you know, kind of in containing the, or reducing the kind of borrowing cost? Because the rates are rising, so I don't know how much market will take care of the, you know, credit risk premium changing, you know. With the difference in the trade rating across the institutions.

Yeah, so you can see, like, I'm sure you can just go to Bloomberg and look at our credit risk spread versus any competitor, any kind of AA plus player or a AA player, like, pick anybody, and look at our spreads over the last few months, and you will see clearly that our spreads have come down. There is no question about it. I spread that on 40 to 45 basis points over the last few months against any benchmark that you look at. We've shown on page 17 our incremental cost of borrowing and how it has actually reduced. So in a rising rate market, our incremental cost of borrowing is falling. That is happening because our ratings have gotten better. And this narrative is likely going to continue.

Thirdly, like, you know, the expected change in our borrowing cost vis-a-vis, you know, our competition and, like, you know, and kind of, you know, the kind of, like, breakup that we have on the asset side. So how does this breakup mix, you know, you know, putting us vis-a-vis or as compared to other competition when the rates are rising? Because, you know, any competition, like, you know, which is going to witness, you know, faster or maybe slower rate of change in the borrowing side, they might be, you know, slightly better off as compared to you. So, any thoughts on that?

See, I'll reiterate a couple of messages that I mentioned before. A, our variable rate. Assets are higher in absolute terms than our variable rate liabilities, which means high rising rate helps us, right? This is not true for many, many players in the competition. It is true for us. So that helps us. Number two, we have the tailwind of a rating improvement, which essentially means a credit risk spread across practically all competitors, except those who themselves have gotten upgraded. Our ratings, our credit spread are decreasing and will continue to decrease. That is number two. Number three is that our... Retiring debt is at least 60 basis points higher priced than where we are currently borrowing. This, again, will not be true for most players.

Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, that will be the last question, and with that concludes the question-and-answer session. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jairav Shridharan for the closing comment.

Thank you very much, everybody, for joining our call. Have a great festive season. Happy Dashera to everyone, and enjoy Bajajat Hall, I guess. Bye.

Thank you, members of the management. On behalf of Piramil Finance Limited, we conclude this conference. Thank you, everyone, for joining with us today, and you may now disconnect your back.