Refex Industries Limited (REFEX) Q4 2026 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Reflex Industries Limited Q4 and FY26 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listening mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing start, then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this call is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Pat Patel from MUFJ in time. Thank you and over to you, sir.

Thank you. On behalf of MUFG in time, I welcome you all to Reflex Industries Limited Q4 and FY26 earnings conference call. On the management side, we have Mr. Anil Jain, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Dinesh Kumar Agarwal, Old-Time Director and Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Sonal Jain, Head Accounts and Taxation. I hope everyone had an opportunity to go through our investor deck that we have uploaded on exchange in the company's website. I would like to mention a short disclaimer before we begin the call. This call may contain some of the forward-looking statements, which are completely based upon our belief, opinion, and expectations as of today. These statements are not a guarantee of our future performance and involve unfortunate risk and uncertainties. With this, now I hand over the call to Mr. Anil Jain, over to his side.

Thank you very much, Park. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you so much for joining us for Refx Industries' Earnings Call for the fourth quarter and financial year ended, 31st March, 2026. FY26 has been a significant year of transition and growth for Refx Industries. Over the past years, we have consciously shared the business portfolio towards sectors where we see stronger scalability, better margin visibility, and long-term execution opportunities. These efforts are now beginning to reflect meaningfully in our performances. More importantly, the quality of our revenue continues to improve, reflecting a stronger and more resilient earnings profile. As we scale, our focus remains on sustainable growth, operational efficiency, and disciplined capital allocation. While this approach may create some near-term variability, we believe it strengthens the long-term fundamentals of the business and enhance shareholder value creation. At the core of this progress, we have been continuously in momentum in our ash and coal handling businesses, which remains a key growth driver for the company. During the quarter, the segment maintained strong operational performance across major project sites, supported by disciplined execution and technology and continued expansion of our capabilities. The business also delivered healthy sequential growth back to a strong and growing order pipeline. The opportunity in this sector continues to remain significant. Demand for integrated ash logistics, material handling, and environment compliance solutions is steadily increasing. While we see there's a lot of pressure from the government and various authorities on the environment compliances, we see this division growing exponentially. Technology-driven ash utilization has become increasingly critical across the travel power plant ecosystem. With our execution capabilities, operational expertise, And nationwide presence, we believe Refix is very well positioned to benefit from these structural industrial opportunities over the medium term. During the quarter, we also secured several new orders, including several long-term contracts, further strengthening the visibility of our order book. With these additions, the ash and coal business now has an order pipeline of nearly 1,500 crores, providing strong medium-term revenue visibility. Turning to the wind energy business, this quarter marked the beginning of a new growth phase. As indicated earlier, the business has now moved from a developmental and order booking stage into an active execution and delivery. Deliveries of wind turbine generators commenced during the February, followed by phase dispatches and execution during the quarter. The contribution from this vertical during the quarter was approximately 233 crores apiece, representing the initial phase of execution. More importantly, this validates our ability to scale execution in a structured and disciplined manner while building a strong foundation for long-term growth in the renewable energy segment. Our order book in this business continues to strengthen, supported by strong market acceptance of the 5.3 megawatt turbine platform, a growing execution footprint, and continued investment in localization and operational capabilities. The domestic wind energy sector remains structurally attractive, supported by increasing capacity addition targets, stronger IPP participation, localization initiatives, and improving positive visibility. We believe these trends can create meaningful long-term opportunities for scalable and integrated renewable energy platforms such as ours. During the year, the business also achieved an important milestone with the receipt of ALMM approval for our wind turbine platform. This strengthens our market positioning, enhances our execution credibility, and supports our participation in upcoming opportunities across the renewable energy ecosystem. We believe this development further reinforces our long-term growth strategy in this sector. Now coming to the mobility business, the de-merger process continues to progress in line with the approved scheme and planned timelines. Key regulatory and procedural milestones have already been achieved, and the process remains on track for operational separation. Post-completion of the dream merger, the mobility platform will operate independently with a dedicated strategic and financial focus. We believe this structure will create sharper operational focus, clearer capital allocation, and stronger long-term value discovery for all the stakeholders. Operationally, the mobility business continues to witness strong momentum and has cost 100 crore revenue this year with just three years of operation. The business is now increasingly focused on an asset-like growth strategy with expansion into clean fuel and enterprise-led scaling. With the announcement of our Prime Minister shifting to EVs for various government and other agencies, I think this business and the company will see a good growth for the next few years. With improving utilization levels, better operating efficiency, and disciplined action, the platform is steadily progressing towards profitability while continuing to strengthen its market presence. Overall, FY26 has been a strategic execution and business transformation for FX industries. We have strengthened our operating foundation, improved our earning quality, expanded execution capabilities, and continue to build long-term growth platforms using technologies across our businesses. With a strong order book and ash and coal handling, the wind business entering active execution and the mobility business progressing towards de-merger, we remain confident about the company's long-term growth trajectory and value creation for creating growth potential. I would like to conclude by thanking our shareholders, customers, partners, and employees for their continued touch and support. We remain committed to building a resilient, future-ready organization with a focus on governance, execution, excellence, and sustainable growth. Thank you. I would like to now hand over the call to our whole-time director, Mr. Dinesh Agarwal, who will take you to the company's financial performance and key highlights in greater detail. Over to you, Dinesh.

Thank you. Thank you, Anilji. Good afternoon, everyone. For the quarter under review, Reflex Industries has reported standalone basis for the continuing operation of 701 crore of revenue, compared to 594 crore of revenue in the corresponding quarter in the previous financial year. Representing a year-on-year growth of 18%, the growth was primarily driven by continuing execution, scaling the execution in ice and cold handling business. Evita for the quarter student. INR 141 crore is against the 62 crore in the corresponding quarter in the previous financial year. Significant improvement in operating performance, EBITDA margin has improved current quarter at 20.1% compared to the previous 10.4% in the corresponding last year. This expansion was supported by improved business mix. Stronger operating efficiencies, disciplined cost management, and higher contribution from the value-creative businesses. Payet for the Q4 financial year 26 stood at INR 94 crore, compared to 56 crore in the previous year. Registering a growth of 67% year-on-year, and payet margin for the quarter improved to 13.4%. Moving to the financial year 26 performance, standalone revenue from the continuing operations stood at 2039 crore as against the 2059 crore in the previous financial year. While the revenue were lower year-on-year basis, the moderation was largely attributed to the planned transitions. And restructuring within the certain businesses. Alongside a sharper focus, improving the earning quality and the operational efficiency. Despite the revenues obtaining, the company delivered a strong performance in the profitability EBITDA for the financial year 26. EBITDA for the financial year 26 is Rs. 350 crore compared to 208 crore in the previous financial year. Representing a growth of 68%, while the EBITDA margin improved to 17.2%. As I highlighted earlier, financial year 26 marked the year of strategic transitions and operational strengthening for the Reflex Industries Limited. We remain focused on improving execution quality, enhancing business profitability, and building the scalable growth. In the business, the financial performance during the year reflects our positive impact of these measures and position well for the sustainable long-term growth. Piat for the financial year 31st March 2026 stood at 247 crores compared to 184 crores in the previous financial year. Piat margin has improved to 12.12%. With this, I like to, I now request operator to open the floor for the questioning. Thank you. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants, you are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question is answered. We will take the first question from the line of Sukrit D. Patil from iSight WinTrade Private Limited. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon to the team. I have two questions. The first question to Mr. Anil Jain is, I just want to understand of our guidance on what strategic levers are you putting into place in FY2627 to sustain resex ash and coal handling business while scaling wind energy executions and managing risk from discontinued segments like power trading and refrigeration gases. This is my first question. I'll have my second question after this. Thank you.

I'll take this question, Anil.

Yeah, I can take this.

Okay, go ahead.

Yeah. We'll be continuing the same growth like last financial year in the current year for the coal and I think business. With respect to the refrigerant case business, we have completely liquidated the stock, there is certain part of receivable is still pending, which we expect to close in the current quarter. And power trading, we have completely come out of the power trading business, and our complete focus is on coal and air centering business and the value added business related to coal and air centering business. We are confident to have a growth in the current financial year. We have already ordered up 1,500 crores in the call and licensing. And with respect to wind business, Benwind Reflex Power Limited, we're already having an order of 1,860 crores. We have executed 238 crores during the last financial year, and we are confident to execute the balance, whatever the pending order of 1,500 crores in the current financial year, and we are in the advanced stage of closing few orders, which will be announced once we close the order with the customer.

Thank you. My second question is, what liquidity buffers and refinancing tactics have been planned over the next one to two years to sustain profitability while supporting the mobility re-merger and renewable energy scale-up?

Yeah, already we started the work with respect to the financing. We have already did some refinancing during the current quarter for improving the borrowing cost, I mean, reducing the borrowing cost, and also there will be temporary expenses with respect to processing charges and other things, and I mean, getting the better terms from the bank. Both at a wind business and also in the reflux industry is limited. And we are not seeing any challenges with respect to the capital. We have sufficient internal accrual and also the bank balance to fund the current and the future capital requirements.

Thank you, and best wishes.

Thank you.

Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of Udit Saigam from Pinpoint X Capital. Please go ahead.

Yeah, good afternoon, Svenka. Congratulations on a good set of results. Regarding the Ash handling business, I think last quarter we had guided that we will be doing almost 90,000, 95,000 tons per day. Because in the presentation, it says we are doing 70,000. So, could you please elaborate on that?

Yeah, it was informed that in the future, we'll be improving from 95,000 to 90 to 95,000. It was not for the last quarter. If you see again, the script, the transcript of the call, it was for the future financial year. And we are growing, we have the order in hand, and we are confident to execute, and we have already in place the technology and the team for the future group. Okay.

So, by when can we see this ramp up, sir? Up to $19,000?

It is a gradual ramp up. It is continuing every day. I mean, it is a gradual ramp up. And we are confident to achieve in the current financing.

Okay. And regarding the wind energy subsidiary, sir, what kind of, you know, order pipeline do we have that I think in one of the interviews we indicated around maybe 2,000 crores for the orders are in the pipeline. So I've been, could you please throw some light on that?

See, already there is a disclosure.

Yeah, can I speak now? I was trying to say that I think on the order pipeline, we will keep announcing as and when we get ordered. There are multiple discussions going on. Currently, we do not have a firm order for us to disclose over here today. But yes, there are a lot of lot in pipeline.

So, sir, on our current capacity, what is the, you know, kind of top line and EBITDA margins that we aspire to in the wind energy division?

Now, see, currently, we are still in the process of localization of many products. So, it is still, I would say, we will reach about 2 gigawatts by next year and by capacity-wise. Currently, we are just still building the capacity.

And on a steady state basis, say a year or two down the line, what would be the EBITDA margins that we'll be targeting?

We will keep trying to improve the EBITDA margin. I mean, our aim will be to keep improving the EBITDA margin by a few percentages on current once we do the localization. I think these are all work in progress, so very difficult to give any number or guidance on this today.

Thank you, sir. That's it for my answer.

Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of Ronak Singhvi from Napa Asset Managers. Please go ahead.

Hello.

Congratulations for the good results, sir. I would like to ask, like, in the Q3 presentation, the order book for the segment of ash and coal handling was reported at 1,500 crores, and the Q4 closing order book also appeared to be same. At the same time, Q4's presentation mentions the fresh order of around 120 to 130 crores, while the segment revenue itself is 690 crores for the ash and coal segment. So, based on this, it appears like a mismatch in the order book, or you have, like, Can you clarify whether the disclosed order additions are partial in nature, or there has been change in updating the outstanding order book as on the reverse March?

We have disclosed all the order, whatever the order we get. There is a few order which gets long-term order which is not reflecting in this, which has been disclosed last year. And that has been part of this order which has been added. Like the Epigenco order, which is a large order for a three-year contract, which is being gets added in the year, the beginning of the year. I mean, that's kicked in in the beginning of the financial year.

Okay, sir. And also, with the increase in diesel prices, our operating costs for the ash handling services are likely to have risen. So, could you please clarify whether such costs are recoverable from the customers through escalation costs or we have to bear this?

All our contracts have the escalation costs, but not completely it will be recoverable. There will be 40 to 60 percent depending on the contract to contract. It is a recovery. It is a pass-through.

Okay, sir. One last question. Like, the company is continued to be classified under industrial gases as per the stock exchanges, which may not accurately reflect the current business profile and could affect the comparability with peers. So, does management intend to engage with the exchanges regarding this?

We have already filed our applications for the change of the classification. We expect anytime the approval for the change in the classification. This has already been filed two months back.

Ok, ok.

Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of Deepak Pudar from Sapphire Capital. Please go ahead.

Hello, I'm an audible, sir.

Yes, your audible. Please proceed. Okay.

Sir, just wanted to understand on your ash and coal handling business, I mean, I think you mentioned somewhere that we are looking at same growth in FY27 as in FY26, right?

Yeah.

But, I mean, FY26, we saw degrowth, right, in ash and coal handling business, per se?

No. That is in terms of revenue. Revenue had a mix of, in the previous financial year, there was a revenue mix of refiturant gas, power trading. All that has been counted. There is a growth in the revenue and also the profitability. Our complete focus on the quality of profit and the quality of margin, and we'll keep improving the profitability.

So I am not including the discontinued business. Your refrigerant gas and power trading business I am excluding. So, sir, in terms of numbers, if you can talk, I mean, FY25, I think your segmental revenue is around 2,235 crores.

In FY25, there is a reduction of 220 crores purely related to the trading businesses, which we are reducing and focusing more on the service business.

So, what's the adjusted growth in the ash and cold handling business in FI26, if I can know?

It is 28% to be precise.

28% growth we have seen. Okay. Okay, okay. And that's very clear, sir. And in terms of your wind business, I think our execution has started in a meaningful way from fourth quarter, right? So how should one look at FY27 in terms of execution in your wind? I mean, you did mention that we have around 1,800 crores kind of order in the wind segment as well, right?

So, yeah, the current year will complete all the previous order book which are open, and like I just mentioned that we are also closely working on some new orders also. So, we will actually complete all the old orders and maybe some new orders might also add to the current year.

Okay, so entire 1500 crores pending orders will get executed in wind in this year, plus some additional, right?

Yes.

Okay, okay. And I think you were speaking about the margin profile in your Wend business. I missed that. If you can just reiterate that, what sort of margin we should look at in your Wend business in terms of EBITDA or PAT?

No, I was just saying that we are just trying to improve the margin by converting to a lot of localization, and it's a one to two year journey, so it's very difficult to project an increase in EBITDA percentage, but there will be a substantial shift in the localization and improving the EBITDA on that margin.

Okay, any aspiration we have? I mean, typically, this kind of business, what sort of margin one should look at? I mean, I'm talking about, yeah.

We will be very good compared to the industry. That's what I would say. We really don't have a number to talk about today, but definitely we will be better than or we will be closer to or better than the industry margins.

Okay, okay. Fair point. I got it. That would be it from my side. Wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of Sudhir Beda from Beda Family Office. Please go ahead.

Yeah, good afternoon, sir, and congratulations to the entire team for outstanding numbers. Am I audible?

Yes, sir.

See, I have two questions. Thank you so much, sir. First, we have clocked 20% margin in Q4. So, that kind of margin will continue in FY27 as well?

Margin will be around the same, because there was a service mix, because of that margin has improved, and the EBITDA margin anywhere it will be between the 15 to 18 percent always.

So there would be some margin decline compared to Q4, right? Is it the right way to look because 20 percent margin is I think not sustainable? That's what you want to say. No, it is sustainable, sir. Oh, great. That is a great thing. And another question is, we have a contract assets of 700 plus crore. So can you throw some light on that?

That is majorly the unbilled revenue, where the work has already happened, and in the process of certifications and the approval. With the customer and every month there is an unbilled revenue gets added and billing happens every month. This is a running account and this is large part is the unbilled revenue.

So this number is expected to come down, right, in the current year?

Yeah, it will, it is, it is depend on the business. If I do a business of 200 crore in a month, sometimes 300 crore on will get reduced, 200 gets added. And the next month, if I do a business of 200, and the billing happens of 150, accordingly, it is a running account of unbilled revenue, where the work every day keep happening, and certification delay happens, certification time it takes, sometimes approval times it takes, and it is a running account of unbilled revenue.

Understood, yeah, yeah. That is, I understood. And the last question on my side, if I calculate the math, what you said in the opening remarks, as well as the answer to my previous question, that Business from the wind turbine could be as high as 17 to 1800 crore. Is that understanding is right for the current year F.27? Because 1500 crore order you have to execute and then some more orders also will come that should be executed within the financial. So those kind of figure is the right calculation for the current year?

Currently, I would say that yes, all the past order books will definitely be completed. The new orders, they are still in pipeline. Unless we sign up, we will not be able to comment on that, sir. But definitely, all the old orders will be completed in this year.

Understood, sir. Thank you for the opportunity and all the best.

You're welcome, sir.

Thank you.

Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of Vidya Shankar Ramakrishnan. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, sir. And apologies for having been away for some time. Congratulations on the super achievement. And I believe you have been very modest in your commentary. Because the turbulent times the success has gone through, including the… Thank you very much.

Thank you, sir. I think it is just the guidance of all the shareholders and stakeholders and the blessing and the trust you all have in us. We will keep ensuring that governance is the highest priority for the company and we will keep ensuring that everything is within the law of the opportunity. Thank you.

Yeah, I have only been dormantly disengaged because holding-wise, I am still at the same place where I left you at around two years back. So, that way, I have kept the trust on irrespective of the noise that I have been going around. And that brings me to making a statement that what retail investors should believe is, like, in serious decisions, right to say it is not the exact number, stock price and market return. These are also just a number. What we need to actually reflect and look upon is the company growth, the management vision and the management vision, how they are executing it. And I think you are doing a great job in that. We would like to understand where we are on the de-merger. Is it just stuck with NPLT and other regulatory process or is that some others come in block? I don't have any other questions, but everything else is quite sticking first.

Yeah, this is, I mean, ongoing. I mean, there is no challenge in the demerger process. It is a part of NCLT process. We expect this very soon to get the demerger process being done. Currently, the courts are on holiday. It is a summer vacation in the court, and as of now, we should get the hearing on the first week of June. We have little, if you put a timeline another 60 to 75 days, this should get completed. I mean, that's a, all depend on the court process, but that is what the timeline we expect the demurzer process to get completed.

Yeah, I think from the down, for the timeline, we can say 90 days, right? Three months number.

It's all depend on the court time and other process, but from our side, 100% of the all compliances is done.

So, from your end, everything is done. Now, the small is in their place. In the font of the soil.

Yes, sir.

Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Aunty, congratulations to the team and I hope I can be engaged, not just dormantly, but also vividly in future. I have had my own other activities.

Sorry for that.

Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of Ayush Dandia from Dandia Consulgency, LLP. Please go ahead.

Hello, good morning, sir. A great set of results. I wanted to ask that how are these current margins sustainable since you said that in the prior con call that we are expecting 11 to 12% EBITDA margin, and this time we have delivered around 22% EBITDA margin. So can I ask what has changed in the last two quarters for the guidance to change?

That was the 11 to 12% was always on the net profit. That's not on the EBITDA. And we always had a good EBITDA and majorly because of product mix change. Where the trading component has been removed and the service component of the business, which is asset handling businesses, is being reflected, and we always had a good margin in the service business, and since the power trading, refrigerant gas, which is also kind of a trading, with that discontinuing has happened, and the margin looks improved, whereas we had the same margin earlier also.

So I've got a follow-up question on that. If I see a segmental result, in FY25, we did around 21,000 crores of PAC margin, and this time, sorry, 21,000 crores, 218 crores, and this time we have done 350 crores of PAC, sorry, profit before tax, with the revenue degrowth of 10%. So even the PAC margins have greatly improved.

I just tell, it was not the PBT, not the PAD. Current year, we have done 350 crore of EBITDA, compared to 208 crore of EBITDA in the previous financial year. There is a growth, I mean, in terms of percentage, 68% in the absolute terms, and the margin is 17.2% on a yearly basis. There is a revenue degrowth of 10%, whereas if you go get into the COGS, COGS is reduced by 18%. There is an improvement in the cost efficiency. There is an improvement on manpower cost by introducing the technology into the business. Overall, there is a various level of improvement has been done. And, uh... There is certainly there is an impact of the will be there in the digital cost increase because 40 to 60 percent will be a pass on and there will be a rest will be a cost impact. But still, we will have a good margin in the future.

Thank you, sir. That answered my question very well. Thank you.

Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of Rohit Lada from Lada & Associates. Please go ahead.

Yeah, sir, congrats on the number. Sir, I wanted to understand on, you know, in general, the industry demand of what was happening in the coal side. I think the coal black gasification plan, the government came up with it, and I think in general, the impact from the war is clearly being seen in the coal volumes in general. So, how do you see that, you know, positively affecting, affected as handling business, which you can just, you know, give some details on that.

Yeah, coal import effect will not be to the ash handling business because imported coal always adds 12 to 13 percent of ash content whereas domestic coal ash content is as high as 37 percent to 14 percent in a per ton of the coal. Our growth, there is a high growth, if you have seen the Coal India's report also, the coal consumption in India today is 800 million tons, and it is improving every year on year. Coal gasification project, which is the Sin Gap, is a completely different program from the Government of India, which is not going to affect the thermal power plant. Thermal power plant, as per the government of India, there is new 50 gigawatt. Of the project is getting added in next four to five years time. So thermal power requirement is going up. Power requirement per se is going up in India because of demand from every sector. And this as business will keep growing year on year.

Okay, so basically there is no direct impact of our business because of the cold ratification. Is that what you are trying to say?

Yeah, yeah, there is no, not, there is, there will not be any impact.

Okay, okay, okay, great. And second question, sir, I had was on the working capital side. So, I think this year, the receivable days has, has increased a bit. I think, I could see it in one, one 30 and 40 days in FI 26. So, you know, any particular reason why they increased, I think, was it, again, reason of work? Now, this contract asset that you talked about was if that was came in between of that or was it after ?

Recipible will be like this only because it is a it is a where the contract billing and billing and after that receipt it takes always the time. Always it will be taking time, and always receivable will be within 105 days to 125 days. It will be there in the future also.

Okay, but won't that change because of the mix of our Wynn business, sir? Or will that remain similar for both the business and, you know, at a consolidated level?

No, whatever I am speaking on a standalone basis, Wynn business receivable cycle is too less because it's completely backed by the LTE. So, Wynn business is completely a separate receivable cycle.

Yeah, thank you so much, sir. Thank you, sir. Congrats again.

Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of Cora from Augmont Enterprises. Please go ahead.

Yes, sir. I just wanted to ask, what is going to be the quarterly revenue run rate for FI27?

Gaurabh, it will be in the same line like last financial year, where the quarter 1, quarter 2, quarter 3, quarter 4, we always will have a, this year also will be growing in the same way. Quarter 2 gets impacted due to the monsoons in the every year, whereas Q1, Q3, Q4, Q3 will be moderate, Q4 again will be have a good growth. Our always Q4 and Q1 does the good business, Q2 gets impacted a little, but on an overall financial year, we will have a growth in the current financial year.

Sir, are you speaking for consolidated or?

I am speaking on a standalone.

I am asking for the consolidated one.

Consolidated, since the last year, win-win, that is win-win business has only 238 crore, and we will be doing more this year. Growth will be very, very high compared to the previous financial. On a percentage.

Thank you. Thank you, sir. Got it.

Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of Maya from Maya Private Limited. Please go ahead.

Hello, sir. I'm Audible.

Yeah.

First of all, congratulations. Very amazing set of numbers. I have two questions. First, I would like if you could clarify on the IT search issue. Was there any financial or reputational impact on reflex? The second one would be the purpose of the de-merger. How will it create value for us shareholders?

I will take the second question. The purpose of the demerger is to because the set of investor for the Sustainable and the EV business is a completely different set of investors compared to what is there in the industry is limited. And for the better unlocking the value for the shareholder, it has been we have planned to do the de-merger. And as I have told in my previous question, this company is also in the path to profitability and it will create value for all the shareholders. And the IT issue, we have done all the disclosure at various points of time. I mean, every stages of the disclosure, it has been done. And we are confident about the governance in the company. And we don't see any challenges from the IT for the company.

Okay. Thank you, sir.

Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all the participants, you may press star and 1 to ask a question. We have the next question from the line of Santur Shetty from LGC Capital. Please go ahead. Santosh, you may proceed with the question, please. Did you know response? We will take the next participant. We have the next question from the line of Majid Ahmad from Pinpoint X Capital. Please go ahead.

A more article, sir.

Yes, sir.

A very good set of numbers, sir.

Major, my first question I have is what is the current EBITDA margin on the Wynn business and going forward for next year, what is the margin, sir, for Wynn business?

I think on the margin, like I said, we are in the, yeah, you can take a definition.

Yeah, this current EBITDA margin is around 8% and we'll be having a better margin, I mean, always in this wind business compared to our competitor. And there is various product under localization. We see the same rate of EBITDA for the future also. Okay, sir, I've got it.

Sir, what type of growth rate are we projecting for next year, sir? What type of order book and growth rate are we looking? Coming here?

Wind business?

Yes, sir, yes, sir.

Anilji has already told in the earlier call that already we have order in hand of 1,860 crores. We have already executed 238 crores in the last financial year. We are in the advanced stage of negotiations for the few orders. And we are confident to execute whatever the order in hand is on date for the win-win.

Got it, sir.

And, sir, finally, just regarding the de-merger,

when are we, like, expecting, sir, exactly, like, the de-merger on the EV business?

Company has done all the compliances, and as on date, there is nothing pending from our site.

We have got the BSE approval, NH3 approval.

We have done the filing with the NCLT. It is a NCLT timeline process where this has to go through a court process. Currently court under the summer vacation and it will open on 1st of June. Court will reopen in the 1st of June and should get closed. I mean, normally a NCLT process takes anywhere between the 90 days, 75 days to 90 days. Same time should take 90 days here also and should get completed in the next 90 days.

Okay, so that's all for my session. Thank you and all the resources.

Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all, you may press star and one to ask questions. We have the next question from the line of Mitesh Shah from an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Hello, am I audible?

Yes, you are audible, sir. Please proceed.

Yeah, just on correction, it is Mitesh Shah and not Mitesh Shah. Fine. So, thanks for giving me the opportunity, and congratulations on the question, good set of numbers. I don't know why Mr. Jain seems to be so relaxed today, comparatively to all the previous concords. Okay. Anyway, the question starts over here. I mean, I've been watching Refects over the years, you know. Since the inception, it started with refrigerant gases and then power trading, and now we see a different reflex altogether, you know, with ash and coal handling and venturing into wind turbine, basically. So what is the vision for the company? Is it that is planning to become a conglomerate per se, or how do we see reflex in the next five years? You know, because the legacy business has been discontinued and the new business are accelerating.

So, I'll take this, it's not being relaxed, it's just that we're trying to create more leaders in the organization. Yeah, yeah, I was just joking. We asked others to take up the questions. Correct, correct. Yeah, and on the business, on the growth, we definitely are very, very focused on ash and coal handling business. We think it's one business and sector which is not very well recognized in the country, and the potential in this business is very, very huge because this is a great environmental hazard which is being caused, And we have identified that this could be a problem that we can solve, and with the use of technology and operational efficiency, we definitely can be very likely to do this. On the wind business, yes, the business also we started because we saw a great potential in a particular technology which was available from Germany and we bought this technology and started building the business with some expertise in this industry. Going forward, the next five years, the focus will be for the fixed industries is on growing the ash business. We currently are in the highest largest and we will want to just go so big that the number two and number three are not very close to us. And also look at working with thermal power plants to see how we solve the larger problem of just not moving the ash, but managing the ash silos and various other services which we can do into a thermal power plant. I believe for the next 30-40 years in India, the thermal power plants will still continue to exist and keep growing. If you see in the last two years, the number of new thermal power plants announced are enormous Because while renewable and all other sustainable energy will only be supplementing or complementing the energy requirement along with thermal, but they will never be able to overtake the thermal or replace thermal completely. So I think the focus will be on this for the next few years. Yeah, I hope that answered the question.

Sure, sure. I really appreciate it. So, when I understood, you know, we aspire to be the largest, you know, the largest organized player. So, as of now, you know, if I were to see the TAM indicated in the presentation, that player on 75,000 crores, and we doing odd, you know, 2,000, 2,000 octos, you know, we sit at almost 3%. I mean, we are doing hardly 3%, getting to 3%, actually. I mean, how far are we from the second largest organized player as of now? And is there a moat in this? I mean, I don't know. So today, you know, prefects of being the largest player, what is the moat that we have? You know, apart from execution capability, you know, a lot of players can have, you know, execution capability.

I think the second player to us should be about 25% of what we are today. I'm assuming that we don't have exact data because we are not a listed entity. But what we have, definitely, we are operating in multiple thermal power plants and 40 plants currently, and we have built a scale across India. I believe that operational efficiency is what we are going to build this business, and we are almost mastering that. For us, anybody else coming next would need to build such kind of operational efficiency in multiple stages, not one state or one location where I keep doing things for the next six months and I learn and get better there. Over the last seven years or eight years, we have actually built our strength in different states across the country and built a very different capability where asset life, working with partners, and growing with the partners is what we've been building. I don't say that I don't want to be nasty by saying that there will not be anybody who can do this, but I think that as new people come, we'll only keep scaling higher and better from there. And the kind of technology we've built internally for managing all this logistics is a complete, you know, propriety technology. We have not bought this from anybody which can be sold to third party. So everything has been built internally proprietary for us.

I mean, thanks, thanks, sir. I mean, definitely, I can see that in execution over the years, and as I've told earlier, I have great confidence in the management. But having said that, you know, I'll just allude with the previous caller, you know, who said, you know, we've seen this being the largest segment, you know, ash and coal hunting. We've seen a segment, if I see the segmental revenue, I've seen a sort of degrowth, you know, in the cash and coal hunting from 2230 or crores to 2000 or crores as such. And is there any particular reason for that?

No, there is not decode, like Dinesh also mentioned. Yeah, Dinesh, go ahead, you can tell this.

Yeah, that is coming out of your trading revenue and focusing more of a service revenue so that we focus more on the quality of profit and looking into the future. Our concentration is fully on the quality of profit and the quality of margin, then the revenue, and we'll keep focusing only on the profitability, not on the revenue term. Though there is a revenue increase also will happen, these are all temporary restructuring, reorganizing on the business side, and which for the future readiness, as you are asking the previous two questions, what is for five years, and that is we are preparing for us for the future.

So my last question as of now would be like, I've seen the company growing almost, you know, threefold in last five years in top line and almost, you can say, fivefold in the last five years. What is the vision of the company for the next five years, per se?

Yeah, I mean, I don't want to give any guidance on the numbers, but like I said, that we'll only get better, adding more and more thermal power plants, adding more volume, growing the daily movement. I think we will keep growing in this business for the next five years. Like I said, we will become the largest and so large that second to us should not be more than 25% of what we do. I think that's the vision for the next five years.

Got it, got it. I mean, do we, have we, I mean, can we keep any aspiration target? I mean, I'm sure I know we'll not, I mean, no one will obviously vouch for that basically. But is there any aspiration? Because we have grown quite handsomely in the last five years. So, hence I'm asking in that context.

Like you, you also said that we're only at 3% market share. We'll have to keep looking, aspiring to grow our market share year on year. So, I don't want to give a guidance on the number today because this is a business which is growing extremely fast. So, we will aspire to grow to a better and respectable percentage maybe two digits over the next two years.

I mean, I really appreciate the management, and definitely I can watch it. This is one of the best and robust management that I have seen across all the companies, and I again, once again, wish you all the best for the future as well. Really appreciate it.

Thank you so much for the appreciation. Thank you so much.

Thank you. We will take the next follow-up question from the line of Gaurab from Augmond and Enterprises. Please go ahead.

Yes, sir. I just wanted to know, like, most of our ash and coal handling revenue comes from coal trading or ash handling,

like a breakup within that.

This is, there is a multiple parts of it, this ash and coal splitting as a business is not possible, because we also do a reverse logistic, where we take coal inside the power plant and take back the ash while the return trip is happening, either by rack mode or the road mode. We tried splitting. It's not as a business. It is able to split the revenue because when we always prefer a maximum utilization of the fleet, whenever we take one item and take back, do a reverse logistic. That is the reason it is not possible to split and both the business is being viewed as a together with, I mean, I mean, in total.

Okay, so I got it. And the second question is, in FI 27, like, wind turbines revenue will be equal to the ash handling revenue

or in the same range?

Winter wine, multiple questions have been answered, 1,860 crore of order book we have in ad, 230 crore of revenue has been accounted in during last. And we'll be, we are confident to execute the balance order in hand. Few order is in pipeline. I mean, once it is closed, we'll do the necessary disclosure to the market. And business will grow. I mean, compared to last financial year in the wind business, this year we'll have a massive growth. And we'll be, we'll be keep growing in the wind sector also.

Okay, sir. Got it. Thank you.

Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of Shreya Ruiya from ZTO Capital. Please go ahead.

Hello. Hi, sir. I wanted a clarification that in the last call, we mentioned that you would reduce the pledge. But like if we see that the pledge has only increased to 41 percent. So what's the reason for it? And by when are we trying to reduce it? By what percent?

This reduction is happening. Every month, payments are happening. But as for the contract, place removal happens on the closure of last money of the payment. We expect some release to happen in the coming week, and over a period of months, we will be closing the place.

Oh, no, sir. Look, the pledge on the shares which you hold, the promote, the pledge I'm talking about.

Yes, yes. I'm also speaking on the same thing only. When a pledge happens, there is a borrowing happens. When a borrowing happens, pledge happens. And a borrowing payment happens every month. And a pledge removal will happen on the closure of the loan. And I mean, all, all, all are like payments are happening on time. We expect. On various stages, over a period of next six months, pledge removal will happen.

Pledge will be completely removed over six months?

Yeah, partly it will be removed. Large part of it will get removed.

Okay, sir, my next question is that we said we'll do 1,500 CR at least from the VIN business. What in terms of percentage will it be contributing to the business on a control basis?

In the previous question, in the multiple question, 1,860 crore of order in hand, 238 crore of revenue has been booked last quarter. Balance open order, which is close to 1,500 crore, will get executed in the current financial year, 26 and 27. 26-27, and a few negotiations are happening. I mean, necessary disclosure will happen on the closure, and wind business will be a substantial part in the consolidated revenue, and we expect a growth there also.

And what is the peak which we can do from the current capacity in the wind business?

We are not giving any guidance on the numbers, but it will have a very good growth in the wind sector also.

No, no, sir, not guidance, but what is the maximum revenue which we can do from that business right now?

Wind sector has opened up very well. I mean, it has opened up very well. There is a large expected growth for all the people, all the sector people who are in the same sector. And we are expecting to do good contribute to the clean energy in the growth of India in a good number in the future.

Okay, sir. And any capacity addition in the Ash business?

Yeah, that is in the first call today we told. We are doing currently 68,000 to 70,000 every day. And the current financial, it will improve the quantity and also the revenue.

Okay. Okay, so thank you.

Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of Sakit Kapoor, from Kapoor Co. Please go ahead.

Yeah, and thank you for the opportunity to just in continuation to the previous participant from 68,000, 70,000 per ton handling of coal and ash. Currently, what would be the peak capacity of handling the same? By what percentage or by what quantum it will rise?

There is no capacity constraint. Ramp up only takes time in the locations to locations, project to project. There is no capacity constraint and will be current year also will have a good growth like last year will be growing in a double digit percentage compared to the last year.

Okay. So, we did 2,000 crore of revenue for the ash and coal handling, and we have, I think, 1,500 crore worth of order book. So, on a top line of 2,000 crore, we are expecting double-digit growth. That is what the understanding is.

In a total level, we will have a good growth, sir. We are not speaking any number. Again, we will not be able to mention any number, sir, but we will have a good growth.

Okay, sir. And secondly, sir, can you give us an understanding on the peer comparison in the space where we are operating? I think so, sir, was mentioning about we being having a market share of 25% by 5 years from now in the ASM cold handling segment. So, if you can give me your nearest competitor in that space and their market share.

There is no listed company, and there is no other, I mean, large company there. We are the single largest. Other are fragmented companies. They are either working in two plant, four plant, five plant, or one plant. So, there is no competitor in the segment currently we have. Okay. In future, one will come up, but there is space for everyone.

Okay, sir. On these two small points, how will the EBITDA margin be shaping up for the year as a whole? What should be the EBITDA margin trajectory? And secondly, there was some cancellation of warrants which were issued, I think, to some promoter and non-promoter entity. So how will that funding gap will be met and what's the thought process of the management on these two aspects?

We are already doing a very good EBITDA margin, and if we maintain, sustain the same EBITDA margin itself, it will be a very good growth. And second question is the warrant, non-subscription of warrant by the promoter and non-promoter entity. It was a deliberate decision, and the company has sufficient cash balance and the banking limit. And the internal accruals, there is no immediate requirement of funds. Whatever to be funded has been funded from the earlier fundraise. And we have sufficient bank balance and also the banking limit for the future growth of the organization.

So we are not contemplating any further fundraise now?

Not immediately.

Sir, for the EBITDA margin trajectory, what did you mention? I missed the point. How will the EBITDA margin trajectory be shaping up with now wind energy business kicking in with the revenue book for this current financial year? How will the EBITDA margin, blended EBITDA margin number, if you could share, only the trajectory or a ballpark number?

Organization is doing a very good EBITDA margin. Sustaining the same EBITDA margin will be a great thing, looking into the other geopolitical situations currently. And our focus is to maintain the current EBITDA margin, because there is a lot of changes happening geopolitically, and our focus primarily to maintain the current EBITDA margin.

Okay, and last point is on the finance cost, sir. We have seen Now, 30 crore finance costs are debited in the P&L for the current 19 years. So, if you would just give us some color, how will this line item shape up? And this is pertaining to our working capital requirement or how is the debt maturity planning? I think we have a very small long-term amount of 26 crore only.

Our debt equity ratio is very healthy. We are very, very under leveraged. And see, there is a finance cost. There is a few. One part is there is a processing charges. We are transiting for a better borrowing cost company. We have closed one limit with the new, I mean, old bank and going to move to new bank. Because of that, there is a hit of around 2 crore. To 2.2 crore, to be precise. And, I mean, finance cost, major requirement towards the working capital, because this is a working capital intensive business, and currently we have sufficient money in the bank, and also the limit, and there is no challenge in the working capital, and finance cost is within the limit of our planning, and, I mean, we are not overspending or over-leveraging on this.

So, sir, this quarterly run rate of 7 to 8 crore will continue for going ahead also?

Sir, we are not speaking on any number. Profitability and revenue will keep growing. Not speaking on any cost item. And the finance cost, I mean, profitability and the revenue number will be keep growing.

Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, in the interest of time, this will be our last question for today. I now hand the conference back to Mr. Anil Jayan for the closing comments. Thank you and over to you, sir.

Anil, sir, over to you.

Thank you so much, everyone, for the time taken today for the call, and I appreciate all the questions, and I want to thank all the investors for the support. Thank you so much. Thank you, Muxi, team, and thank you, Kodas, team.

Thank you, members of the management. On behalf of Refix Industries Limited, we conclude this conference. Thank you all for tuning with us today, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you, sir.