RHI MAGNESITA INDIA LIMITED (RHIM) Q4 2026 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the RHI Magnusita India Limited Earnings Conference Call Q4-FI26. As a reminder, all participants will be in the listening only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on a cash-down phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. Before we get started, I would like to point out that some statements made or discussed on today's call may be forward-looking in nature and must be viewed in conjunction with risks and uncertainties that we face. The company does not undertake to update these forward-looking statements publicly. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Firmuth Sagar, Chairman, Managing Director, and Chief Executive Officer from RHI Magnusita, India Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you very much. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. Financial year 26 was a resilient year for RHM Magnetita India, a year that demonstrates the strength of our strategy, our business model, and the discipline of our execution. Despite operating in a challenging environment characterized by pricing pressure, inflationary cost trends. Industry over capacity and intense competition, we deliver our highest ever annual revenue, surpassing 4,000 crores for the first time in history, as well as in Indian refractory industry. More importantly, we achieve this while strengthening our customer relationship, enhancing operational reliability, generating robust cash flow in maintaining disciplined capital allocation. Our performance reflects more than resilience. It demonstrates our ability to consistently create value while advancing our vision of driving progress in ever-changing world. The industry landscape in India continues to undergo a structural transformation. Government-led infrastructure investment, manufacturing expansion, supply chain localization, and increasing industrial satellites. are creating unique and long-term opportunity across steel, cement, non-ferrous metals, and energy infrastructure. As these industries expand and modernize, the importance of high-performance and effective solutions continue to increase. Against this backdrop, RH Magnesita Indica Limited remained a trusted partner for customers. Ensuring uninterrupted supply and operational reliability, even during periods of geopolitical disruptions, including strumentally spectacular. Let me briefly touch upon the industries that continue to drive our roads. India further strengthened its region as worth the second largest food seed producer during financial year 26. Quoted by the robust infrastructure spending, rapid urbanization, and sustained government capital expenditure, steelmaking capacity has now reached approximately 165 million tons and inching towards 300 million tons as government policy states. Steel remains our largest business segment, and we continue to strengthen our leadership position across integrated steel producers. Candid steel manufacturers and public sector customers to our comprehensive refractory management capabilities and customer-centric operating models. During the financial year 26, we further expanded our presence in the iron making and flow control segment to specialized products, enhanced localization, strong project execution capability, and deeper strategic partnership with customers. One of our most important strategic differentiators is our growing focus on integration solutions through our 4Pro platform by combining refractive products with automation, robotics, digital monitoring, scanning technologies, process optimization, recycling, and CO2 reduction initiatives. We are helping customers to improve productivity, reliability, sustainability across their operations. Importantly, customers are increasingly recognizing the value of this integrated approach. During the year, we secured long-term agreements under the core framework and received highly encouraging customer feedback, validating both the relevance and effectiveness of our solution. Our objective is clear. To become the partner of choice rather than simply another supplier. Technology leadership continues to be a key growth driver of our business. During financial year 26, we successfully implemented India's first fully integrated robotic solution in task operation. An important milestone for both our company and the industry. We currently operate two robotic systems successfully and remain confident about expanding our automation footprint through additional deployment in the coming year. Turning to the cement sector, industry growth remains resilient during 26, supported by infrastructure investment recovering in housing demand, GST rationalization, and continued government focus on economic development. This sector continues to provide meaningful diversification to our portfolio while strengthening our industrial business franchise. At R&J Magnetica, we firmly believe that the future of refractory industry expands well beyond product pricing. Historically, refractories have often been viewed as a commodity business. However, we are witnessing a fundamental shift toward a decommoditization. This transformation lies at the heart of our core strategy. Financial discipline remains a cornerstone of our operating philosophy. Despite market volatility, we generated strong cash flow during the year. Through prudent capital allocation, disciplined investment, and continued focus on working capital efficiency. Our ambition extends beyond growth alone. I am also proud to share that during the year, RHA Magnesita was recognized with the prestigious CSR Award from the Government of Andhra Pradesh and from Government of Kabul Narduk's Pollution Control Board for Environmental Excellence. These recognitions reflect our unwavering commitment to responsible and sustainable growth. As we move forward, our priorities remain clear, driving profitable growth, expanding our technology leadership, strengthening customer partnerships, accelerating sustainability initiatives, and maintaining discipline and execution. The foundation of our business has never been stronger, and we remain confident in our ability to create long-term value for all our stakeholders. With that, I would now like to hand over to Mr. Ajit, who will take you to our financial performance in detail. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Pramodji, and good morning, everyone. Let me take you to our financial performance for the fourth quarter and full year FY26. FI 26 was a year of strong top-line growth, continued market share gains, disciplined cash generation, and strategic investments, despite one of the most challenging operating environments the industry has faced in recent years. Revenue from operation increased 9% year-on-year to 4,000 crores, while shipments grew 5% to 525 kilograms. Our growth was broad based on, broadly based by three key factors. Strong growth in ladle solution and electronic ask furnace projects. Continued expansion in conditioned ladle slide-stage solutions. Increased demand in the iron-making segment supported by NIFE, COPO1, and PRI projects. These gains enabled us to further strengthen our market position despite a highly competitive market environment. FY26 was characterized by significant industry headwinds. The refractory market continued to face excess capacity, aggressive pricing behavior, rising raw material costs, elevated freight, and energy expenses with increased commoditization. Against this backdrop, our focus remained firmly on protecting market share, strengthening customer relationship, and building long-term values to differentiated solutions. For this quarter, revenue stood at INR 932 crores, reflecting the impact of geopolitical disruption and a software estimate demand cycle, broadly in line with the guidance we had provided earlier. Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was INR 113 crores, with EBITDA margins of 12.1%. Adjusted profit after tax before exception items stood at INR 39 crores. During the quarter, we recognized an impairment of goodwill relating to RHIM-IR. This was driven by a reassessment of medium-to-long-term growth expectations, considering a combination of factors, including weaker export demand amid geopolitical uncertainties, persistent currency depreciation impacting raw material costs, Increasing industry capacity additions, heightened competition from imports, and continued inflationary pressures across T-cost categories. While these factors impacted profitability during the year, it is important to note that they do not alter our long-term strategic direction or our confidence in the underlying growth opportunities available to the business. For the full year, adjusted EBITDA stood at INR 477 pros, with EBITDA margins of 11.9% compared to 13.7% in FY25. Adjusted profit after tax for FY26 was INR 180 pros. Although margins moderated during the year, our profitability remained resilient, considering the magnitude of industry-wide cost inflation and pricing pressure. For FY26, we have year marks approximately. INR 135 Cros of Capital Expenditure focuses on operational excellence, product innovation, selective capacity enhancement automation, and sustainability initiatives. These investments are aligned with our strategy of driving long-term profitable growth while enhancing returns on capital, strengthening our competitive position, and supporting future earnings potential. Turning to cash flow and the balance sheet, one of the most encouraging aspects of our FY26 performance was our strong cash generation. Cash flow from operation increased 9% year-on-year to INR 409 pros, supported by discipline, working capital management, and improved cash conversion across the business. As a result, we further strengthened our balance sheet and ended the year in net cash position with net debt to EBITDA entering to net cash positive at 0.1x. This achievement underscores the quality of our earnings, the strength of our operating discipline, and our ability to generate cash even during periods of market volatility. Our balance sheet remains robust, highly liquid, and well-positioned to support future growth initiatives while maintaining financial flexibility. Looking ahead to FY27, we remain constructive on both growth and profitability. We see multiple drivers supporting margin improvements and earning growth in the coming year. First, improved demand across core and industries. Thank you. Progressive implementation of price increases across selected products and customer segments. Third, continued cost optimization through recipes, recycling, and strategic sourcing programs. Fourth, expansion into new industrial segments, including petrochemicals, following the restore acquisition. Fifth, greater penetration of a for-proof platform, enabling high-value-added solutions, improved realization, and stronger cost-pass-through mechanism. The last one would be improved fixed cost absorption supported by stronger open projects order book and increased operation leverage. In closing, while FY26 presented significant industry challenges, it also demonstrates the resilience of our business model, the strength of our customer relationship, and the effectiveness of our strategic priorities vis-a-vis the competition. With a stronger balance sheet, growing market share, robust cash generation, and improved growth visibility, we enter FI27 with confidence and remain committed to creating sustainable long-term value for all of our stakeholders. Thank you for your continued trust and support. We'll now be happy to take your questions.

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask question may press star in 1 on their dashed own telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star in 2. Participants are requested to use hands-up while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. I start and want to ask question. The first question is from the line of Gaurav Khanda from Cabgro Capital. Please go ahead.

Good morning, Mr. Mogadini. Yes.

Yes, sir.

My first question is that, is all the restructuring done, and what is the impairment of goodwill, and what is the roadmap going for F-27 and F-28?

I'm sorry, your voice was breaking, but if I understand, you're asking how much was the goodwill, and is there anything up front? I hope the question, maybe capture the question correctly.

Sir, I'll ask again. I'm asking that, what was this impediment regarding the goodwill?

Sir, I just request you to use headset. Please, your voice is not audible properly.

Not audible, sir? Hello?

Yes, go ahead, sir.

Yeah, sir, I'm asking that what is the roadmap for FIN 27 and 28 going forward, and apart from that, this goodwill impairment, what you have taken, what is exactly that, and how do we look to improve margins in a very competitive market?

So, thank you so much for the question. So, you asked three questions, so let me try to do this in sequence. So, first thing is basically our outlook is that we still believe that... From a growth perspective, we will outweigh the market by 2%. And we say this with a lot of confidence now because our growth area is coming in. I am making DRN pallet business. I'm happy to report out that we have a strong order book for next 18 months. We have secured one of the largest COCO1 projects. with one of the largest industry integrated steel players. So this will ensure that our, you know, our fixed cost gets absorbed. Plus, we are able to kind of, you know, grow in the significant area. So we are confident about the growth for next year with the firm order book in our hand. Second, as you know, that we are, we have long term contracts called 4-4 contract. This means that most of our, the organic growth is also secure. Second, on the margin side, at the moment, we are actively seeking price increases because of the recent input cost increases with our customer. We are also happy to report out that we were quite successful in receiving most of the price increases where we were targeting the particular product and customer segments. So we should see all these tailwinds coming through in Q1 and also in Q2 as well. So to summarize this, we will have a better growth percentage that is plus one to two percentage than what the market is saying in terms of steel or cement production. Second, our margins will be far more better than what we have achieved in the last quarter, which is basically Q4. With the price increases and with iron making fixed cost absorption that we were mentioning. On the Goodwill impairment, basically, we took an assessment of the recent market changes that have happened. We basically saw that our exports volumes were reducing quite significantly. Second, on the effect side, there is quite a bit of a deterioration and unpredictability because of the geopolitically. We have to kind of consider that because most of the raw material purchases, not really for RHA, Magneseta, but globally, the business is done in USD. And as you know, that INR and USD has the highest amount of volatility. We consider this factor. And the third factor also basically is that the amount of new capacities that have been announced by the competition. Now, we believe that these three factors along with the inflationary pressure, which also will be felt by our customers, we took off a very prudent view and conservative view. We basically said how much of this will commoditize the business in some specific areas and some specific segments. With this in mind, we prudently went for the impairment of the goodwill on the Dalmia assets only. Hope we answered the questions. Okay.

My last question is that going forward, any more restructuring is pending or it is done now?

Yeah, it is done. It is all done. No further restructuring is required.

Hello?

Yes?

Hello?

Hello?

Any more restructuring is pending or everything is done right now?

It is clean. No further restructuring is required. And we say this with utmost confidence.

Hope you are able to hear our answer.

Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parveen Jaya Raman from Evendus Park Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.

Sir, good afternoon. Am I audible?

Yes, you are.

Sir, my first question is related to the COCO ONE project. You have mentioned that that is one of the main projects which we see in order book for the next 18 months. My question comes from whether this is a project KPEX on client side or it is an operational one where we get order even after that 18 months. It's a continuous operational supply for them or it's a one-time supply where they use it as a project KPEX.

You know, cocoa is always a project, but there is not any capex required. This is a normal production process, and we got some 30,000 plus order. It's a huge tonnage, and with our, you know, mining now, we transfer in our name, and earlier we were buying from the market as almost double the price of our mining cost. So with this order in place, mining in our name, we will not only absorb our fixed costs, we will have a better margin also because of our own mining. And after 18 months, we believe there are four or five more cocovins are coming up, and we are very sure we will continue getting those projects, and this will at least continue for next year's time when it comes to cocovins.

Sir, sorry to, like, I could not get it. So, if, like, four or five more projects comes, that means, like, for us to increase our supply, we should have more COCO-1s under us, or will one COCO-1 give us continuous, continuous supply of?

You know, this order is for two COCO-1 batteries. And five, four coke-over batteries are coming up in next two, three years' time. So we believe that we will get at least two more out of this five, very conservative approach. So another, say, 18 months after this 18 months, we will be able to continue with this high level of production with the fixed cost absorption and with our own mining better margins.

So, post that 18 months, whichever you are saying, we can assume that 30,000 tons will be with us, and it can increase with more coca 1 coming in.

Absolutely.

Got it, sir. Thank you. The second question is on inventory side. So, last thing, we had a commentary that higher cost inventory has been observed by Q3, and this can support going forward in terms of margins. But, like, has this been the case in Q4, sir? Did we see some inventory benefit coming in?

Actually, it's offset by high-cost inventory, which is coming up with our basic refractory, primarily spruce magnesia and the DBM. Hi, everyone, everyone. The inventory, which was high cost, is already consumed, and we are at a market level pricing. But this magnesia-based products have gone up because of energy cost increase in China, freight increase, etc., which impacted Feb and March, you know, shipments. And I believe it will continue with this inflation, inflationary environment. But at the same time, we reach out to our customers as the team said, and the customer realized that absolutely this is necessary. If we want to continue the supply, we need to agree to price increases. And we, in some cases, even got double digit price increases. So this will offset our, you know, inventory high cost values. Rather, it will give us a bit of margin advantage as well.

Thank you, sir. So my last question comes on growth aspect. So I heard the commentary right now that we would be doing 2% higher compared to the market. So this 2% outperformance would be on the volume terms or how do we compare this?

Actually, we should always consider volume because pricing is dynamic. It keeps on changing depending on raw material pricing, forex, freight, etc. So, we should consider only volume. So, if the market is growing by 6-7%, we will be growing at 9%.

Sir, with the inventory which we have right now, and the order book which you have projected, or which we have right now, and the price increases which we are taking in the market, what is our outlook on the EBITDA going ahead, sir?

We are projecting her next year 30% EBITDA.

Exactly. And this will, just to add on this, for two years, it's 13 percentage. We will have, I mean, normally our business is cyclical. Please bear this in mind. So there will be some strong quarters and like Q4 is not usually as strong as quarter. You can see this historically as well. So yes, for two years, please take the number as 13 percent.

But Q1, we believe it should be as strong as quarter. Agree.

Understood, sir. Understood. When we say that we are going to outgrow the market by 2%, so generally what do we consider the volume of market in terms of refractory, sir? Would it be like a steel market growth that into consumption plus 2% or how do we generally say this outperforms or how do we benchmark this comparison, sir? Or I can also put it in this way. If you take FY26 as an example, what was the growth which the market had and how did we perform against that in terms of volume?

It was almost at par, I believe the market grew by 6%, our volume growth was about 5%, a little bit of, I would say, below market YSO in Q4, Q3 was okay, Q4, there was some, you know, cyclic as you said, the cement is the lean period from October to December, even January. So that was the reason, volume-wise we were a bit low, but Q1 we should be back with 1000 plus volumes again. Thank you.

Sir, where do we refer to 6% industry growth, sir?

It is a combination. I am not saying only steel. If you have steel, cement, non-ferrous, glass, put together everything, the average growth is about 6%. Steel may be grew by 8%, right? And non-ferrous is 4%. So, it's a combination of all the, you know, pieces right here we are supplying, various segments.

Okay, sir. So, thank you for answering all my questions. All the best for the upcoming year.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sahil Sanghi from Munat Network Capital. Please go ahead.

I'm calling him out. Fairly, Sahil. We can hear you partly. We can hear you, but not clearly. But please continue. We'll try.

Yeah, yeah.

Sure.

My first question is, if you can help me understand what is the total revenue that we have achieved in the Dagnia assets and the margins for FIRE 26, just to get a broad understanding of how we have grown on that asset. And the second question would be to understand, as you've mentioned in the presentation, that, you know, there is huge competition in the cement side also, and we've lost. Some bit of business. So, what's exactly happening over there? How are we trying to regain some of the business? And what will be our focus points when it comes to the cement sign? Thank you. So, our group,

we grew in Dalmia asset by 14%. Revenue was 115, 1153 crores as against 1013 crores. of FI 25. So it is a 14% growth in that particular segment and revenue has gone up to 10.8% against 11.5. So its revenue grew by 14% and Bitcoin is almost at the same level. And not much difference. What about Siemens, you are saying, you know, I would be very specific that the competition has put up a lot of, you know, capacity in last one and a half year or so, and now it is a... Under production now. So, for example, our competition, Calories, IFDL, you know, they as even smaller players, they try to fill up their plant at any cost. So, that put a lot of pressure on us also. And, you know, it will continue. I would say that the overcapacity will definitely put pressure on commodity business. So we are trying to get out of commodity type of a business to more solution-oriented business where we can, you know, add value to the customer. We are talking to even... Our segment, the big customer, how we can add value to them instead of just supplier-buy relationship, can we have their solution partner? And the response is very good, and we are trying to decommoditize the segment also to get back to the desired level.

All right, for the turn, I'll ask you. Go ahead.

Our cement as a percentage of revenue from FI25 to FI26 also dropped because of this overcompetition. So in FI25, we had about 13%. Now it's at about 11%, just to give you a full year flavor, because, you know, we choose to do only the business that makes them for us.

Got it, got it. So, just to get the margin number right, if you can reiterate, what was the margin number in FI 26 entailment?

Sorry, can you repeat? 10.8 percentage. I repeat the margin. 10.8 percentage, yeah. 10.8. Okay, okay, thanks.

So, you must appreciate that from last quarter or so, we are consistently delivering double digit EBITDA.

We started with Dalmiya when we acquired. Agreed, sir. Agreed, sir. Agreed, sir. Great efforts on that side. Sir, we were planning some refurbishment in the Dalmiya assets. So, I mean, what plans on that front and with respect to the CAPEX number, absolute number for FY27, how much we will spend across the complete?

We continue, you know, restructuring or modernizing our Dalmia assets, which are, you know, in a pathetic situation. At the same time, we are very good and very thoughtful how much we have to spend, how much will be the payback period for that particular asset. We spend about 100 crores in 26 and capex for 27 is around 150 crores or so, but it is not limited to only Dalmia plant overall. 150 crore, that's what we are assuming. It will also have some capex for Bhavadi, Jamshedapur also. Not only it is limited to Dharmya Thang.

Sure, sir. Thank you so much and all the best, sir. Thank you, Sahilji.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kunal Kotari from Nuama Wealth Management. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is in regard to the other expenses that we have seen, you know, rise in the quarter of this FI26. Just wanted to understand much more in detail that is the West Asia conflict has, you know, led to any one of, you know, increase in the overall expenses. And do you see, you know, to continue for, you know, next couple of quarters?

I will basically say that, yes, West Asia conflict has increased that input cost, but it's mostly reflecting your raw material or material costs. We also saw some elevated increases in our freight, especially whatever is getting oversight. There was an immediate search, which we have to take on our books. Apart from this, these are cost increases for which we are seeking price increase now. We believe that the price increases we have secured will be effective as of May onwards. Okay, so that's the first thing. On top of it, we have one more continuous cost. As you know that we are starting with this 4-pro contracts. As Pamoji was mentioning that we signed three 4-pro contracts. So in 4-pro contracts, you always have a startup cost as well. Example, in terms of people requirement, machine deployment, and so on and so forth. So this is something that will happen for which we will get the margins and revenue in the upcoming quarter. So, these are your continuous costs, which you are seeing in the other expenses. On top of it, we had one-off costs, which basically was some of the legal costs that we had, which allowed us to help us to get the mine transferred on our name, and we had some of our transactions with the acquired entity that we had to close. So, these were some of the one-off costs also that were featured in the other expenses.

Okay, sir. So, secondly, about the capex in F5-2728, can you give some color on that and also about the leverage management that you see over the next two years?

So, on the capex type, basically, we are looking at 150 crores of capex. Of which, maintenance capex would be around 40 to 50 crores of it. Rest all, we are dividing into two parts. One basically is that with these new 4-pro robotic stand-up and machinery, so we will have some sales capex, which will have an immediate benefit for us, and some structural... Growth CapEx that we will be deployed. So that's how we are thinking about our CapEx for the upcoming year. On the leverage, as you can see that, you know, that we are absolutely cash positive. So everything will be funded from our balance sheet. We have some, you know, growth plan. So that's where we will be deploying CapEx, not on any big transactions at the moment.

Okay, sir. That's it. Thank you, sir.

Welcome.

Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and want to ask questions. Next question is from the line of Radish Manjadad from 361 Capital. Please go ahead.

Good morning, Ramadji. Good morning, Harim. Good morning, Harim. I was just wondering, could you explain a little bit on the fixed cost increase because your gross margin seemed to be decent, but the employee costs and other expenses, you did highlight about some legal expenses, but what is the quantum of fixed cost increase you've seen on account of the iron making that you highlighted? That was my first question.

What was the question was not clear, but we heard the first part that you are asking about the thing. Can you repeat the question part along?

The question is, I want you to quantify the impact of the iron-making fixed cost that you highlighted at the beginning of the call. How much was the impact of that on the quarterly number?

So basically, what do I mean by that is that, okay, so we are not going to give that separate starved out number on a fixed cost absorption, because I think we will not do that this year. But basically, what we wanted to say was that we have, we wanted the message we want to give on the COCO one, to be very precise on the project, basically, is that. A, as you know that this is project in nature, so we have a secured order book, which will keep our line continuously running rather than running only for maintenance-related projects, so this will ensure that our fixed cost is always managed well. As you know, you are following refractory pretty closely. Wherever we have a kin, that's where refractory guys have the higher fixed cost. Now that we are able to secure this for 15 to 18 months continuous order, our message basically was that first lever that we see that A, we will have a revenue upside. B, normally the spoke-o-one projects are of better margins than other businesses that we have in the iron-making area. D, we will also get a better fixed cost absorption. D, we also have the mines being transferred, so we were sharing that highlight. Okay.

And you have been talking about your margin guidance, you know, coming down gradually over the last few quarters. At one point of time, it was 15% to 16%. Now it was 14% last quarter. Now it is 13%. So where do we see the end of this? Is it going to 10% in the industry because it is a fiercely competitive industry? So, are we like looking at a worsening scenario or an improving scenario? Because, I mean, we've been gradually coming down on the EBITDA guidance over the last few quarters.

Ah, Rajeshji. The market is so dynamic, the geographical situation is so drastically changing. So we have to adapt to that. So the cutting percent to me is a number where we believe we can deliver because of our various initiatives which we have taken. If we could not have, you know, worked on this, what you are saying, it might have gone to 11 percent, 10 percent also. So, we are taking a lot of initiative to maintain our margins from 13.72 now. It is, you know, 12.1, and then we are saying we will go back to 13. It's challenging, but we know we have order book. We have mind drive with us now. It will improve our margin. We have a strong order book. We have three contracts we signed in January only in this year, which will, you know, increase a later part of the year the margins also. So, there are some levers based on that. We are sure we will be able to deliver 30% of it.

Yeah, and also, we are also seeking price increases as well. There is a good amount of understanding from our customers that... That, you know, this is coming because of the input cost increases. So we believe that this will, of course, improve our margin. I'm guessing that because there's a realization from the customer side, we are talking about the broader market also, maybe there is a little bit of a short-term. Again, you know, we can't talk about all the competition because they are operating in specific segments. We have a broad diversity, which basically means that we are able to absorb the shocks better, which you can see in our cash flow statement and the overall resilience of going in continuously double digits vis-a-vis some of the niche players who are basically are further deteriorating, even though they command from the market position in some specific segment.

And this 13% you are talking, does it include any project orders like glass, aluminium, or is it without that?

Yes, we have some, apart from the co-common project, as we had informed you earlier, the last financial was the worst in the non-cement industrial area. We had not any secured any big, big projects, but now we see some...

Okay, and Pramod sir said that the first quarter could be even better compared to the average of 13% earlier. What is the reason for that? Any project order kind of spillover has happened from fourth quarter into first quarter?

There are some, you know, pending price increases, which we believe we will get in May, June, and that is one reason. And second is what he was saying, the price increases which we are asking for is starting from May. So if we get those price increases, it will definitely help us. Plus the similar season starts during this time. May, June, July, August, September. This is similar season also.

Is it possible to give some color on the face? Is it 5%, 7%?

So, let's put it like this, that vis-a-vis our cost increases, we are basically asking for 1 to 3 percentage of price increases depending on the categories or the segments that you're operating. So, let's say that our cost increases is zero, then we are basically asking 1 to 3 percent. Again, it depends on the segment.

I hope the customers are not taking this.

And if I could sneak in a last question, sir, alumina prices have been low, but magnified has been rising. So is that a positive cycle for us, given the fact that we mine a large part of the global magnified in RHIM globally?

Actually, if the interior price increase is good for the industry, then you know. Our refractory industry will grow much faster, revenue will go up, margin will be improved, for sure these are good developments as long as we pass on these, you know, cost increases to our customers. And when it is of magnesia, it is mostly steel related or even cement where the bigger kines are there where they are using fired magnesia bricks. So this is a good sign for us, I think.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Rajesh.

Thank you. If there are no further questions from the participants, I would now hand the conference over to Mr. Pamoad Sagar for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Thank you very much, dear investors, analysts, for your kind support here now, and we hope you will continue supporting us. We assure you, we will do our utmost to increase our revenue, our margin. That is our... Core, and we are working on that. Various initiatives have been taken by the regional leadership team, how we can absorb costs, reduce our input costs, reduce projections, increase our circular economy, and deliver good results to all of you. Thank you very much. Stay blessed. Have a nice weekend.

Thank you. On behalf of RHIM and Asita Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.