Adani Ports and Special Economic Zone Limited (ADANIPORTS) Q4 2026 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Adani Ports Ltd. Q4 FY26 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by JM Financial Institutional Securities Ltd. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. And I'll hand the conference over to Mr. Priyankar Biswas from JM Financial Institutional Securities. Thank you, and over to you.

Thank you. So, good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We have the management of Adani Ports and ACZ, represented by Mr. Ashwini Gupta, full-time director and CEO, Mr. Krishna Menon, the CFO, Pranav Chaudhary, head of Ports, Divesh Taneja, head of Logistics, and Mr. Rahul Agarwal, the head of Investor Relations and ESG. So, we are here to discuss the 4Q at as well as FY26 results and the outlook going ahead. So, without any ado, I will hand over to Mr. Rahul Agarwal, the Head of Industry Relations and ESG. So, over to you, Rahul.

Thank you, Priyanka. Good evening and hello and welcome everyone to APSEG's fourth quarter earnings call. We will begin with Mr. Ashwini Gupta's opening remarks and then open the floor for Q&A.

Thank you. Sorry. Good morning, good afternoon. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for giving this opportunity to us to share with you our financial announcement. To start with, we set 500 million metric tons, and we delivered it, as we said. Obviously, this is not an operational statistic. It marks an India's infrastructure moment. Now, coming to the financial announcement, once again, we have exceeded the guidance. APSEZ outperformed the upper end of revenue, EBITDA and CapEx, while closing with net debt to EBITDA at 1.9x and return on capital employed of 16%, another evidence of our healthy business growth with financial discipline. The FY26 revenue grew by 25%, EBITDA grew by 20%, and PAT grew by 16%. During the year, we faced challenges and disruption, starting with Operation Sindur, various geopolitical issues, and West Asia crisis. Still, we delivered, serving the nation by handling LPG vessels. Managing transshipment overflow from Middle East, providing free storage to containers, and helping the country to continue with the trade. Despite that, we over-delivered what we promised. Every year, we set a guidance, and every year, we exceed it. This is not by luck. This is integrated in our culture. A domestic port handled 451 milliliter metric tonne. Revenue and EBITDA grew by 13% and 14% respectively and the market share at 27.1%. The return on capital employed increased to 23% from 21%. The international ports revenue grew 34% and EBITDA increased 180% led by ramp-up at CWIT, Colombo Terminal and completion of NQXT Australia acquisition. But in the annual announcements, we counted only the quarter four of the Australia. The second business logistics revenue grew by 55% in FY26. The return on capital employed increased to 10% from 6%. So in our Ambition 2030 plan, we said that we will take three to four years to bring the return on capital employed in logistics. To double digit, but I think in FY26 itself, we hit 10%. And this was possible with the strong momentum in Asset Lite and Asset Zero services, along with the utilization of the Asset Heavy, which are mainly the ICDs. The marine revenue, which is the third business pillar, EBITDA increased by 134% and 125%. It was led by highest ever fleet of 136 vessels. So, I would really like to say thank you for keeping the confidence in APS-CZ and having this support. So, we look forward to hear from you, feedback, questions, and thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Ashwini. We will now open the floor for questions. Yes, Ashwini?

Yes. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We'll take our first question from the line of Alok Deora from Motila Loswal. Please go ahead.

Hello, good evening and congratulations on decent set of numbers. So, first question was on the, you know, the performance. I mean, if I look at the absolute numbers, you have still done pretty okay, but the margins have come off. So, I mean, we are, you know, typically we see 15 to 60% sort of EBITDA margins. Now it's come at around 56. So is it like a one-off there or if you could just elaborate on that?

I think, no, thank you. Thank you for that question. You know, when we talk about margins, you always have a seasonality, but the fundamentals are there and we are delivering the fundamentals that as you saw that overall boat margins remain consistent. Now you may see a drop. In the individual ports, but if you look at, I think you will have more time to go into the details. But if you look at, they are mainly the cargos, where we have the dry cargo. And you may see a little bit drop in Gangnawaram, you may see a drop in Hazira, you may see a drop in Damra, but you may see a drop in Krishnapatnam. So this is the combination of, on one side, we are investing on the expansions. Like in Gangawarang Port to capture the agriculture cargo, which we believe, fertilizer and agriculture cargo. We are building the warehouse and so on and so on. So I think there is a, because of all these disturbances, which we have seen, we have seen the change in the business mix. And to adapt to the business mix, we have to reschedule our operational processes. Of course, it takes time. For example, as I said before, you would have read in our public advisory that we gave the extended free storage for the containers in Munra. We used 100 acres of land extra to keep the containers because this is for the country, this is for the community, this is for the world. So if I'm giving a free storage to a shipping line, they are bringing the containers which they could not, cannot take it to Middle East because of the, because of the crisis. They are keeping 100 containers with us, but then they want to take 20 containers back because the 20 containers have got necessities, you know, food and so on, which are only allowed to be birthed in the Middle East. So, we have to see that we exist to serve the community, to serve the nation, to serve the maritime industry. So, definitely, this has impacted, but as you know, these are all short-term, and our fundamentals are still there. And that's why you would have seen that overall port margin exists and continuing where we didn't have these kind of disruptions like international ones. Colombo and so on, you would have seen that we have delivered a significant improvement in the EBITDA margins, but yes, in the dry cargo force, because we are resetting. Let's Thank you. But at the end. That's what is the indicator which our shareholders, our investors are looking for. If you look at overall return on capital employed on the domestic ports, we have delivered 2% more, which is 23%.

Sure. Thank you for the elaborate answer. So, just on the return on capital, I mean, you in the logistics business, actually, it has shot up quite a lot in FY26 from 6% to 10%. So, just some color on that. And, you know, in your guidance of FY31, your revenue in logistics is growing by a whopping 34% and EBITDA is growing by 27%. So that means there will be some sort of a margin consolidation there. So, you know, when the size is becoming almost, you know, a 20,000 crore logistics business by FY31, would the margins be slightly higher than the current levels or it would be, there would be some sort of consolidation there? Just if you couldn't highlight on that.

I think, you know, the result of 10% is not by luck. I mean, we have a strategy. I think one and a half years before we explained the strategy of. Combination of addressing this business by Asset Heavy, Asset Light, and Asset Zero, and this is what we delivered. Obviously, if you look at the mix, you will see that the mix of Asset Zero and Asset Light has increased as compared to Asset Heavy because we are doing really well on our freight forwarding business, on our trucking business, so definitely that has given a boost. But once again, On one side, we have to see independent businesses because that's where I think we are transparent in sharing with you each and everything. But on the other side, we have to also see that freight forwarding business at the end brings the volume to the asset-heavy business. So both are interlinked and both are complementary to each other. Now, moving forward, you know, once again, our objective is to give you a 20% return on capital employed or APS-CZ level. Now, how the business mix will change, how we will move forward, we wanted to give you an hypothesis so that you have in your mind. But for sure, when we talk about the logistics business, and there is no surprise in it, that EBITDA which we earn is not in direct proportion with the revenue. And as a consequence, you know, there is a business mix impact. Having said that, what is important for us is to give absolute amount of growth. And the return on capital. So that's why F531 and... We launched this plan in 2024. We delivered in 2024. We delivered in 2025. We delivered in 2026. Now, it was right time for us to give you one year more, but with a better forecast. So if you look at our tech, which we have uploaded already, Ambition 2031, we have taken all the feedbacks you guys have given to me

in last one or two years, especially the capital allocation.

We have said very clearly what is domestic ports, what is international ports. In logistics also, we have re-estimated our assumption. We have given you the allocation for the marine, and we have also given the allocation for the decarbonization and the technology, which is driving our efficiency and the productivity moving forward. You may see other things also, but I think we can discuss it after you have gone through it in 101 course. But to answer to your question, our commitment, our promise is to deliver twice the growth in five years with a 20% return on capital. At consolidated level, but then, of course, domestic ports are really doing well, touch code, and it will do well. And international ports have picked up, and logistics and marine will be the booster to contribute to the APS-EZ overall growth.

Sure. Thank you so much. Just one last question, if I can. So, you have given a very detailed breakup on the capacity edition of December 2030, where capacity goes from 653 to 1 billion ton, right? Now, we have given a guidance of 1 million ton of cargo volume handled, which includes 850 million ton of domestic. Now, you know, if we do the math, then, you know, out of the 1 million capacity, is it really possible to kind of handle 850 million tons? So, because typically, the utilization stands at around 80% or so, and plus entire capacity might not be fully, you know, functional during this, during 2030. Some of it might come near the end of that period. So, just any guidance on the volume, if any changes there?

Yeah, no, no, you're right, you're right. At first, we have to know that when we do the theoretical capacity planning, we always consider 20%, right? Always capacity planning is done at 80%. So if I'm saying that I have one billion, you can see it is at 80% of the total capacity. And then you would have seen another thing, which is the last is we are investing in technology to improve the efficiency. So, you may be wondering why, you know, in one month, Mundra is doing $770,000. If you try to calculate the capacity what we have in Mundra and what we are delivering, which is $770,000 in a given month, You will, you will hit 94% utilization.

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But within that 1 million, you would, you would be able to handle 850. The volume guidance does not change.

Yeah, 1 million is a theoretical capacity. No, it's at 80%. So you can go up to 1.1, 1.2 with the same percent.

Sure. So volume numbers, the longer term volume numbers, volume guidance does not, has not changed.

No, no, no, we are not changing. And, you know, you will definitely ask that question. So before you ask that question, I can tell you that this volume does not include the merger and acquisition.

Yeah, this is all.

So any, any, any headwind which may come like it came last year with operations Indoor and West Asia crisis, definitely we have a buffer, which we will do in next five to six years.

Thank you so much, sir, for the elaborate answer and wish you all the luck, sir.

My pleasure. Thank you.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Manish Sumaiya from cancer. Please go ahead.

Of course. Ashwini, congrats again on a strong fiscal 26. Since we were just talking about your long-term plans pertaining to fiscal 31, maybe if you can just talk about some of the important milestones over the next 12 months that we should keep track of.

Thank you. Thank you, Manish. I said after listening to your congratulations message, we were so excited. We wanted to have a... You know, all the free storages and everything and, you know, the business mix change between the containers and so on may be improved in next three months. So you may see a change in the container. But the second biggest... Anticipation is there will be a comparatively weaker monsoon. Anticipation is heat is high, which we are already seeing now. Even Anzawad is running at 43. I don't think that renewal capacities, even if India did a record in setting up 50 gigawatt last year, but I don't think the renewal capacities and the conversion of electrons into the transmission and transmission... It's a second thought. The challenge on LPG will remain, and I think people are... Last year, Tata Power was almost closed for the whole year. We'll be fired, and I'm really interested at this. Which is there, which bypasses the standard. of the crude. And that's why we may not see any challenge on the crude oil, which means what, Manish? Our guidance. Prices do not come down. India as a country may not. There's a gap between supply and demand, which may rise. I think we should see a positive side, and I think Kota 1 will tell us what is the positive. So that's what I would say. Munish, I think Kota 1, we will come to know many, many tailwinds which will come, but we want to be very conservative because we don't know what will happen tomorrow. You know, nobody knows. Nobody has a crystal ball. But still, we have made some assumptions. And we...

Okay, that's super helpful, Ashkini. I just have two other quick questions. One is on international ports. Obviously, very strong margin performance. You know, clearly, NQXT and the acquisitions that you made earlier contributed, but how should we think about sustainable margin for international ports going out?

See, you know, I know that's a great question, Manish. I think last time, I think since two or three or four quarters, I've been... Our focus will be more on the market share. So, for example, Colombo, in the phase one, we focus on plant shipment terminal. That's why our mix is 100% plant shipment, whereas... We will be finishing very soon. If we are getting into the... Bucket share. Thank you. Thank you. In that region, obviously, they cannot match the margins we should make in India, but definitely over there, they will be best in class as compared.

Okay. Thank you, Rahul. And then just lastly, on CapEx, I saw CapEx was a bit higher than guidance. Maybe if you can just elaborate on that.

Yeah. No, thank you. I think you're spot on. We have accelerated the CapEx. 1331.

Where we have done the 4 India Growth Stories.

Which ones? Slide number 20, because this is thank you to everyone's feedback. We have really introduced logic, rational, why and where we are investing. So we have accelerated our CAPEX A in Munra because we are fully full, and now we have Ct5 which is coming up, but we have accelerated the future expansion. Then, we have accelerated our capex in Dharmra because of the shoot volume, which is coming up especially because of the RSR, rail-sea, rail, postal cargo movement. We have accelerated our capex in Hazira because of the liquid. So, in line with the inter-growth story, in line with the growth pillars, we are investing accordingly. So, that's what I can say, and spending more- We are waiting for the phase 2, and we have tipped off already the phase 2, and phase 2, we are again doing it with the automated terminal, and that's where we want to go, and in addition, we have already started a lot of automation investments to improve the productivity. So, to answer your question, we have accelerated the CAPEX.

Thank you. Thank you, Ashwini, and best of luck to you and the team.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Bharat Shah from BCS Capital Ideas. Please go ahead.

Yeah. Hi, Ashwini Ji. Hearty, hearty congratulations. I mean, in a fast-moving world with a lot of unpredictable challenges, in a complicated, multi-dimensional business like ours, to manage it so well really requires depth and caliber of the management and the planning. And so, I fully... Appreciate your comment that the results have not come by chance, but by good planning, efforts, risk mitigation, and intelligent anticipation of what all many issues can come. I just have to – I don't have really a question to raise, not because no question arises in my head, but simply because I think the transparency with which so many details have been laid down in the presentation, especially about future, is really, really remarkable. I mean, the granular level of details which have been given year-by-year, spelled out, each asset-by-asset, or... Whether it is about ROC, whether it is about date, whether it is about the cash flows, and all the many, many arenas involved in that, I think it is remarkable. Secondly, I was really delighted and surprised how quickly logistics businesses reach a double-digit return on capital employed, because that is a waterloo for many enterprises. I mean, logistics is something I must admit I was a little worried when it was embarked upon, but how quickly that has come by is remarkable, I must say that. So, hearty congratulations, Sashwini ji. And in Rahul Agarwal, you have got a fantastic deputy. The way he handles all the business questions, not nearly financial ones, I must compliment. So, just wanted to put that body.

Thank you, and Rahul is not available. Don't cry about anything. And I think, you know, last two years, the quality of questions you all have asked has really helped us in redrafting our disclosures. I know only one thing, that you are our ambassadors in front of investors, so we put ourselves in your shoes. That you are in front of investors and trying to convince investors that they should invest and keep the confidence in investors. So, if I am you, if I am in your shoes, what all information I need to convince as an investor. So, that's how it's the mindset and the cultural change we have done. And we talked about Rahul. Originally, he is an ESG guy. He was living in New York, and we brought him from New York to India and made him the IER specialist, and he's supported by a good team. And now we have Mr. Menon, who is the CFO with international experience. So I think we have a good team. And asking to your question of logistics, maybe I'll look at Devis to explain. But, you know, nothing has changed. I think one and a half years before, the strategy which we talked about, we are just executing it, a little bit fine-tuning it. We would have seen that we have reduced the capex in logistics because we do believe that we can give much more profitable growth with the less capex. We are mindful and thoughtful of the capex. But one thing which has not changed, we said... This is only done by talent and technology. We invested in technology. We made our own digital platform. We are running it efficiently and effectively. We have the same trucks which can do one trip. Now we are getting three trips with the same truck. Definitely the margins are getting crippled. So we are not perfect now. I think there are a lot of opportunities. We want to grow and keep delivering.

I'm delighted to hear all of that. I will just... Kind of supplementing the broad observation that such multi-geography, complicated, multi-part, day-to-day operations to be done across so many different business lines, it can't be easy. And, obviously, a lot of efforts and a lot of intelligent planning and execution is at work to make it appear so smooth. So, truly delighted. Just wanted to leave one indirect, but, in my opinion, pertinent observation. You might be aware of these mitos and of, you know, release of the software, the AI software, and I think a lot of legacy. Technology systems are really vulnerable in terms of being exploited by the software, especially energy, infrastructure assets, banks. Many of these assets are really vulnerable because these were developed on open source software code development. And most of these systems have been discovered with huge amount of liquid and bugs. So, I would, given the scale and the depth and the complexity of our operations, I think our technology, internal technology, needs to be going through all over again very carefully.

Sure, sir. So, I think we will consider that. Thank you for your feedback, and I will personally study it, and thank you. Next time when we are meeting, we can have more discussions. Thank you so much for your comment. Thank you.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that management is able to answer queries from all participants, kindly request your questions, kindly limit your questions to two at a time. You may join back the queue for follow-up questions. We'll take our next question from the line of Kovimya and Mimmagada from Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Yeah, hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. This is a set of numbers and challenging, especially in the month of March. Two quick questions. So first one, a bit on the near term, and second one on the Ambition 2030 plan, which may take a little longer, but starting with the near term plans, right? So you did guide for about 11% to 16% kind of revenue growth for FY27. So can you help us understand what are the kind of assumptions that were built in here? Obviously, you briefly touched this upon certain assumptions as an answer to one of the previous participants. So, within that, if you can also help us understand how is the current scenario on the ground, because we understand, I don't know, part of March was also supported with transshipment volume. So, how is the scenario shaping up currently? If you can throw some color on that, please.

No, thank you, and, you know, same as you, we also don't have the Christian call, but, you know, our business has continued. I think that the main thing which we are doing today is resilience is at the core at our business, and agility is driving it, because every day we have a new thing. More than 93% of the vessels are coming out of the window. So if I keep the same process, I will not be able to entertain any vessel at my port, right? I can't complain, right? I have to continue to deliver the volume, and I have to adjust, and I have to be flexible, adaptable to the changing environment, right? We have to choose the crisis before the crisis chooses us. I think that's what is the new normal. And that's what we are working. Now, if LPG commercial comes, even after U-terms from another country, we have to be ready at 1 o'clock in the morning to get it faster and faster. So that's what I would say. So having said that, I will give you a very, because you guys are more expert on economics, but what we have done is the minimum range is that we grow. Exactly as India is growing, in an optimistic way, if India growth goes down because of fuel and so on and so on, we do 1.5 times of India growth. That's our minimum. That we do believe, whatever happens, we will deliver you that is 1.5 times of India growth. But if India is optimistic, which you would have seen. Today, you know, we have this news of crude, we have news of imported coal, and many other tailwinds, then India growth will be normal, and we can go up to 1.7 times, 1.8 times without any acquisition. So, that's the most optimistic scenario, which we don't want. To commit to you today because nobody has the crystal ball. So what we have considered in our guidance is the flat. For us, flat is 1.5 times of India growth. Now we can see how the India is growing, but that's how we have taken the guidance.

Got it, sir. I was trying to understand the kind of volume change that you worked around with, but anyways, so, sir, my second question is on the Ambition 2031 or 850 million 10 2030 guidance, right, you know, so if I were to look at it, the implied ask rate on a domestic port side, you know, the volume growth rate is anyway closer to 14% or CAG. In comparison, if I were to look at FY21 to FY26 on growth, that was about 13-odd percent. Again, there you had some benefits of acquisition, something like Krishnapatnamport and Khopalpur and a few other additions as well. And in this context, I'm just trying to understand how do you intend to achieve this 14-odd percent tagger. And I think…

You will agree that we can grow 1.5 times without inorganic. So if India is growing at 7%, we can easily do 10 or 11%. Then let's not forget the fact that we have five years where we have the merger and acquisitions. You also know that many of the concessions are for renewal at the other ports before 2031. You should also keep that in mind.

It's not for sure of Greenfield, but many of the concessions in our competitive sports will be available.

So we will not disappoint you. That's what we can say.

Understood. Sorry, if I may ask a smaller question. I mean, in the past, you did mention that a large part of domestic growth will only be organic, and we do understand that downfield capex expansions, the capex intensity is usually lower, and I can also see that, you know, from 652 to 1 billion, and when you mentioned a significant part of that is also coming from technology optimization. So, can you just help us tie this up with the ROC growth part that you gave it? Maybe if you can put some numbers, like, you know, what is the current gross block to capacity and what is the incremental capex per gross block? Maybe if you can help us understand these details a bit better, please.

So, Kandanya, as we have highlighted, right, in our ambition deck, essentially we are looking at almost about one percentage points. That is a 100 basis point increase in ROC every year or through the next five-year time frame. Given how the business is structured, we do anticipate a significant chunk of that coming from domestic ports. To your earlier point, yes, a bulk of it will happen through organic, where the capex intensity is actually likely to be in our favor, given these are expansion of existing ports. Yes, in audio like this, you should ideally see a... Continuous increase in domestic poor sourcing going forward. Just as what you've seen in this particular financial year, we expect...

Thanks, Sahul. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. I'll fall back in the queue.

Yeah, no, thank you. I think this is also coming for everyone. You know, it's very important for us to give you our ambition for next 2031. But these are... This is the evolving hypothesis. Before the war started. We never anticipated that this kind of business mix will change. You know, we were talking about imported coal will be gone forever. But now imported coal is back because of some other reason. So what I'm trying to say here is it's important to have a playground, but then we have to just adjust based on whether it is raining or it is a sunny day or it is snowy.

And, uh, just... One left group. The journey I'll say this is going to be up. We will still land the number. Yeah, I hope that makes sense.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nikhil Neganiya from Bernstein.

Thank you for taking my question. My first question is on the point you mentioned on, you know, other ports seeing concession closing before 2031. Similarly, I mean, our largest port as well, this concession is due at that time. So, wanted to check if there's some clarity on the modality on the extension of the concession agreements for ports in Gujarat or otherwise.

Yeah, I think the talks are going on. And the talks are positive. We have to just wait for the conclusion.

You will come to know because before us, we come over today.

So, we are actively engaged in the discussion, but we don't control the timing as a decision.

Understood. Understood. So no view on that. The second question I had was on the domestic volumes. I understand your perspective on coal and as you rightly said, I mean, we also expect coal to come back this year. But even on containers, if you could give us some clarity on why, I mean, the growth has been a bit more modest, even in Mundra for that part. Is it largely Middle East or what are the reasons for that?

See you, Tom.

First of all, you should see, Morbi is all gone, is zero, because of LPG. So, the scrap is zero from Middle East.

The paper is zero. So, you know, the impact of Middle East is not zero, which means there is an impact. Then there is an indirect impact, which means that 86 or I don't know, 85 or 90 percent of the Morbi is closed. So, there is zero container movement in Malia. So, the export from India, and what is happening is, you know, look at the trade cost. So, one is the Middle East impact, which is not much, right, which is... I don't know, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 percent. We can't measure it, but it is definitely the impact, which is scrap and the paper and limestone and other windows. But the more impact is the indirect impact like mobile. There is also an indirect impact on the exporters delaying their diseases to export because of high freight cost. So this has to reset someday. And this, they cannot keep on delaying the delay. Look at the inventories of the manufacturers. They are running at the minimum inventory because they have been pushing their decisions forward because they are greeting.

Thank you so much. I mean, appreciate those answers. Thank you so much. Those were my questions.

Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Arjun Lohare from Mahama International Equity. Please go ahead.

Yeah, good evening, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I must congratulate on an exhaustive deck on giving out a lot of information. The question I had was, you know, if you could just clarify, sorry, kind of a repetitive question, but 2026 to 2031, you know, you're talking about touching billion tons of cargo. What kind of capex we should work with? You know, you've spent 15,000 crores in FI26, 12,000 crores to 14,000 crores is the guidance.

Slide number 20. Slide number 20. In official plan 2031, you will find all the details. And then, in subsequent slide, you will see which commodity and which port.

So, Ashil, this is on slide 22 of our Ambition 31 deck.

Okay, Ashil, I think it was mentioned for domestic, if I'm not sure, domestic capacity.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean...

No, I was taking more from the full, I mean, from a... Okay, the second question I had was with respect to marine margin, if you could clarify, you know, is there any one-off out here? Are these new normal margins we should work with?

Yeah, this is a, this is a, uh... This is a business which is, you know, driven by the customer contracts, and definitely we should not conclude this business depending on just one quarter. I think it is just a combination of renewal of the contracts and getting the new vessels in the fleet and the dry docking, which is the maintenance. So there is nothing to worry about, especially with this situation in West Asia. We have absolutely no – there has been no false measure, which we have seen. And as you would have seen that the families are working, our vessels are there. So we don't anticipate. It's just a question of maybe February or March seasonality which you would have seen.

So the annual margin is more sustainable margin? Is that what we should work with, sir? Yes, yes, yes. Second, just a quick clarification on the SEZ port development income, 891 crores. If you could clarify what is this? How sustainable is this? And the Mundra port number in one of the slides, does that include this 890 crores? Because the revenue number of 2700 crores looks actually pretty significant increase on the YY basis or a QOQ basis.

So, Achal, if you look at our investor debt page number 19, where we have given the port wide breakdown. So, there you have Mundra. Typically, SEV is clubbed under that Mundra line, and we've carved it out this time around, so you can see the separate margin profile of the Mundra port. So, that's there on page 19 of the investor deck. The SEG income, as you have seen in the past also, there is no set pattern to the SEG income. It tends to be volatile. It really is a function of the underlying transaction activity that we have at our SEG parcels. And this is what has happened this quarter. That does not necessarily mean that the same Q4 volume will repeat in the next quarter. So it has historically been episodic, has historically been transactional for instance. And it will continue to be the same going forward. So you, I'm not sure, extrapolating to the phone will be the best.

Got it. Thanks for those clarifications and fall back in the future. Thank you.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nook from Fixed Asset Management. Please go ahead. Hello. Hello.

Can you hear me?

Yes, please go ahead.

Hi. Good evening. So thank you for taking my call, and congratulations to Shri Ashwini. And also please send my regards to... An old colleague, not of mine, but yours, Robbie as well. You know, I've been following yourselves for more than 10 years. So well done on improvement. Can I just ask something very specific? I'm on the debt side, I'll declare that. Thank you for optimizing our capital structure. Now I see that in the report, the main report, the net debt a bit dies down to 1.9, depending how you, you know, put the numbers, agree with that. Are you then looking to optimize it further? Because I'm thinking that, you know, what would be, that's the first question, but it's the same similar question because your answer might encompass what you think is your optimal structure right now of debt. And now that you've brought back a bit here and there, you've got some small lines in the front, and if you want to do something in the market in the future. Thank you. Just one of the two questions. Thank you very much.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much. And if you please see our slide number in Ambition 2021, we have tried to answer that question, slide number 36. So, first objective for us is to invest in the organic capex, right, which is between 60 to 70% of our annual operating cash flow. Right, 26. Sorry, I have a different version. 60 to 70 percent. So that's what we have done. We have found the opportunity, so that's why we have accelerated the CapEx, and we have to know CapEx has got two things. Number one is money, but second is the people who will execute the project, and we are lucky to have a great team who executes the project, like Visindya, Mundra, and so on. So that's our first priority. The second priority is the strategic M&A, which brings The top-line growth and the bottom-line growth. Now, I let Krishna to speak on this, but to keep net depth to EBITDA is our first objective before we start talking about gross depth, because we want to use net depth to EBITDA ratio to push our profitable growth. Reducing the growth step, you would have seen that we have been doing it systematically, but this is... You would have seen that... Optimizing.

Second thing is acquisitions. As we do that, we will also continue to look for options where we can optimize the debt and the cost profile. So this is, I mean, like we shared, we did a bond buyback, which we concluded in the month of March, about $199 million. The previous year is about $500 million. 2.5, we will hold it better than that. That's the plan for the next five years.

And, you know, at the end, it should give us benefit in terms of financial cost, right? So, if today somebody asks me to buy back bonds, I will not

go back even if I have rupees cash in with me because I may not get the same.

It's not that I decide, because I have decided I will do the dollar buy back, so I will do it. Thank you. In front of the buyback, how much is, how much premium, whether, you know, you saw in February, which we did the buyback, 50% of our bond buyers kept with them because they believed that APS will do much better than the today's yield. So it's in our roadmap. We call it, and we talked about Robby, so we have a capital management.

We'll take our next question from the line of Parash Jain from HSBC. Please go ahead.

Hi, thank you for taking my question. And hi, Ashwini. I have two questions then. Maybe first is follow-on from the previous gentleman. If you can help us on this end, I mean, is the two and a half time target, is it a C or is it something that you... Aspire to be, to like optimally gear your balance sheet. And in that context, over the next five years span, is the buyback will be one of the tools that you will use to livery your balance sheet. And secondly, with what we have seen with respect to currency depreciation and the Indian and US Treasury spreads narrowing, how do you see by the end of this decade your currency exposure will look like? And then, I'll ask the second question after that.

No, that's great. I mean, the point is, we will keep on optimizing and redefining our P&L in a more healthy way, the way the world is evolving. Having said that, our priority will not change. Our priority, number one, is to invest in the capacity expansion and creating new capacities. Our priority for strategic M&A. And last but not least, we do believe in creation of wealth in mid to long term for our shareholders. So that's why for us, return on capital employed is much more important than a short-term benefit. Perfect. That's why my back would be the last option, but I don't think we will talk about it because we do see a lot of opportunities in front of us. And just to add to that, 2.5x is our guidance.

That's the framework that we work with, and that's the best way we feel we can optimize in this journey. I hope that answers your question.

Yes, I mean, I just wanted to get the feel that 2.5 is like something up to which you are comfortable, or you like will actively work to deliver your balance sheet, but I hear what Asim is saying. Yeah, no, I think, no, no, I think it's a depth mix, yeah.

Yeah, let me, let me, let me, let me rephrase the answer. See, 2.5 is the ceiling, but even if I go to 3, With the quality asset, I will not have an issue with the rating agency. I mean, our business is so healthy. I mean, 2.5 is just the ceiling which we have put. But, for example, if tomorrow I get a $9 billion margin and acquisition, you know, I will go for it. Because it will change the game of APS design. But then, maybe the net depth where we can only go to 3.2, 3.3 for two, three days, it's fine, as far as I have means to fund it, and I am means to provide return on the acquisition which I am doing. So, today, I would say we finish with 1.9, but if we see the next year, if we don't, with this capex, we will go 1.3. So, 2.5 is just the same, but it is, it may change. That's what I wanted to share with you.

Sure. And in terms of currency exposure with respect to your debt, is it like, are you trying to drive more towards INR versus dollar or you are happy with the current exposure?

See, we don't have any issue with that, to be honest with you, because, you know, we have a natural hedge. You know, we take a loan that APS is consolidated, we give it below in our subsidiaries. At the end, when we consolidate, it gets knocked off. But also, then, we get benefit on the revenue. Having said that, having said that, I think if we are getting a better finance in Indian rupee in a longer term as we did with the local institutions last year, definitely we would like to replace it step by step, but we are not in hurry. At the end, it should bring a better financial cost. That is what we want to emphasize.

And my second question is just like, if you can let us know your thinking, how should you think about... How do you think about the underlying operating leverage in your businesses? Because when you look at your five-year target, it seems like probably logistics business will grow much faster. And that's why on a headline number, the operating leverage is not very visible. So if you can talk about that, and how should we think about yield, given the more that your businesses have, given the currency depreciation? Is it mid-single-digit yield improvement on an underlying basis? Is it a reasonable number? What has been the, what has it attracted over the past few years on underlying basis? If you can just share some color.

I think, so very, very good question. Thank you so much. As you have seen, last five years, right? I'm saying very broad. I'm not giving you the accounting statistics. But cost per turn for us is almost flat. And revenue per turn is increasing. You can include the rupee depreciation in it, and the difference, you will see that it is our pricing power, and the services we are providing in addition to the only handling charges. So there are three factors in revenue portman increasing. Number one, we are adding services. Number two, the exchange rate, and the number three is pricing,

exchange rate, and this one more thing.

I'll come back. There are three things which are improving the revenue button. And cost button is almost flat. When I say almost flat, I'm talking about absolute inflation, right? So this is all offset by a product. Thank you. Thank you. And keep on increasing the revenue per turn. And that's why we are saying, Thank you. That's very helpful. Thank you, and a great rest of the evening. Thank you. Thank you, Parishan. Thank you.

Next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Access Capital. Please go ahead.

Good evening. I'll add my compliments to the long list already. I have a couple of questions. The first one is that it's been over three weeks since the ceasefire announcement. But the vessel crossovers in the state of almost... Crystal Ball gave here, probably, that if the situation remains like this for perhaps another month or two, what would the high charter rate mean for a thin container volume or the crude and energy volumes that are going through that state, and what has been your experience in April, and how does this graduate if we have another few weeks of this disruption? Thank you.

Thank you. I think I'm on Twitter, so I look at Twitter to know what will happen in the next one hour. So I can't say, same as you, what will happen. But what we are doing at our end is to make sure that we have adaptability and flexibility. I think what India has seen is… We have a new shipment which is coming on the crew. Continue to continue to grow or continue to be supplied. LPG is something which is a question. Electricity. Electricity is again coal, so. We have a 10,000,000 petric turn out of 500. It doesn't change our parameter, whether energy is zero or energy is double. I would say are the commodities like scrap or, you know, which comes to Navasheva and Navasheva to tomb, so that's why you would have seen in the month of March, you had to drop in tomb. That was mainly because of scrap and paper, which is important. These are the commodities, which are not, to be honest, sorry for that, these are not very strategic. They are very seasonal like iron ore, so we must not be dependent on that. So that's why we have opened up. Good morning, everyone. Thank you. Thanks to the new normal, and let's talk.

And Exim container volume will also find another route, longer route, and ultimately the Volumes and stabilize.

Thank you. We have shorter moves. In BCJ, we have shorter moves vessels, but more vessels. So, definitely, our efficiency is getting impacted, but that's life. We suggest our life to the new normal.

Very clear. The second question is on cash flow from operations. I couldn't find any comment in the presentation or the press release. So, I think we are targeting around 180 billion plus. Now, we have done an EBITDA of about 228 billion plus. Thank you. The CFO behaves and with the growth numbers that we're seeing or targeting for the next financial year, does that follow suit? They began to see a full conversion. So this time around also in a financial year, it would have been 85% of the EFTA number. When he told us here, Nick. Perfect. Just one clarification. I mean, because the trial runs have happened and now at JNPT, both upstream and downstream for DFC, what is holding back the final commissioning or in case you have any sense? Got it.

And even if it starts, even if it starts, even if it starts, and also empty. Officially, last time, in this call, that still there are two choking points. It will be effective, but even if it is effective, the catchment area of JNPT and catchment area of hours are... So, definitely, But we'll have no impact on our business. That's what we said last time.

Very clear.

Thank you and wish you all the very best.

Thank you.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Keitan Jayan from Avindis. Please go ahead.

Thank you for the opportunity.

First question is, are our boats, Mundra and Lezenjam, benefiting from some realignment of shipping line services due to the West Asia conflict? And if yes, then by how much?

So, we cannot see, we cannot,

it's difficult to quantify it. But for sure, they are getting benefited, but they are also, at least Munra is getting benefited, but Munra is also getting impacted. But for sure, Vision Jump is getting benefited in terms of volume. That's why we are accelerating the Vision Jump phase 2. And soon, we will also start working on the Exim cargo for Vision Jump because there's a huge potential in the catchment area of Vision Jump for Exim. We already have the approval for the rail connection and the highway connection. I don't know how many years it will take, but at least there are approvals. So there is a huge potential. So we are accelerating the investment in Virginia for phase two. And Colombo. So these two, these two will really be great. Munra, a little bit complex because it's a mix of everything. So Munra is benefiting, but Munra is also impacted.

I'm not sure. So, Mundra container growth was at around 4% versus JNPT at 12%. So, as you mentioned, the primary reason is because of Mordi?

See, I will give you a C. I don't want to be very optimistic. Let me tell you, and I think it's very important to understand how the JNPT works, right? They have the capacity. Capacity more than they require. We have the capacity which we require. Now, what happens? After this disturbance, more than 90% of the vessels are coming out of the window. I will try to be flexible, I will try to be adaptable, but they have a plane, they have an empty playground, and with a warm welcome, they are accepting every vessel. So definitely, they will have a better advantage in terms of that. So now the question is, Growing at what cost and what profit? I think that is also the second question which we should ask. And, you know, as I said before, we are waiting for our CP5 to be open. But again, we will do only the meaningful cargo, which is bringing high realisation. Of course, we can do this service which we are doing because that is for the country. But at the end, I would say that in addition to the percentage growth of volume, it's also important to see. What is the realization, what is the margin each port is creating?

Understood, understood, sir, but that answers the question. In our international volume of around 22 million tons, how much is in QXP contributed in this?

Roughly about 11 million tons. 11 million?

11 million, sir. I'm sure also if you could split the rest in Colombo, Haifa, and Tanzania, how much volume is?

Yes, maximum growth is coming from Tanzania, uh, from, uh, Kharambo.

Uh, so Tanzania roughly does about 1, 1.1 LNP a month. Uh, Israel is running a, uh, uh, number of about 0.7 point, between 0.7 to 0.9 a month. And, uh, Kharambo does about 120,000 to 125,000 LNP a month. That's where it's at.

Sir, if you can give us the number for the fourth quarter. We shared this with you in the last photo as well.

11 now is your NQXT. You will have a little over 3 million coming from Tanzania, approximately 2.5 to 2.6 coming from Israel, and the balance is Karamudu.

Understood. Just a last question on the ROC of logistics, what would be the capital employed in logistics for this ROC?

You, sir, you are asking for the logistics capital employed in next five years. So, the current capital employed, the current.

Achcha, current, okay.

Those are my questions, sir. Thank you.

Thank you.

We'll get this here.

Sure. Can you hear me loud and clear, sir?

Yeah, we can hear you.

Okay. Thank you for taking my question. So my first question is, in your estimation of the 850 million domestic cargo, what is the rough estimate on what you will be doing in terms of coastal shipping by then? If you could share any breakdown there.

Yeah, I mean, it's difficult to estimate because as I said before, all of a sudden, we have growth in imported coal and coastal. But today, I would say that all India coastal is increasing roughly at 5% when exiting and down by 3.5. So, if I look at the energy growth, I would say that still cost of coal will keep on increasing between 6% to 7%.

Okay, that's useful, sir. So, my second question is, over the next five years, we are estimating about $1.2, $1.3 billion of CapEx on marine. Again, if you could outline, what is the medium-term plan there? Are we looking at doing more in other countries globally? Like, just some thought process on how we look at our marine business outside of what we are doing for our captive usage.

Okay. Now, Pulkit, I'll just clarify one point before Shunia just wants. See, our marine business or our marine vertical does not include the captive boats. Okay, the ports, the trucks that work in our own ports for customers are consolidated under domestic ports. Marine is entirely a third-party business for us. So, all vessels under Marine Vertical are deployed exclusively for third-party customers. So, just one quick IG report.

So, I think building on that, this is what we did. Now, we finished roughly 8% of our business, which is Marine now in terms of revenue. Lovely. And this is the consequence. In India, we have 17. Then we acquired Astro with more than 20 . Have an advantage of having mid- to long-term customer contracts, but also not as much psychic. Because it's a shipping business, right? It's a consistent business, right? Because if our offshore vessel is deployed in oil and gas in Abu Dhabi, it has a big problem. That is the reason we got into the offshore business. Now, Now we have more than 50 vessels. We have Middle East, we have North Africa. So, very soon you will hear that our vessels are deployed in Europe, which means learning from West Asia crisis, we are redefining our offshore marine strategy to also... to vessel deployment, and this is part of Sure, sir.

Since you've got, like, the business is significantly larger now, and obviously there's already so much disclosure, but would love to get more color on our marine plans and how the revenue profile there moves. So my last question is, again, on CapEx for others. We're looking at 6,000 to 8,000 crore in technology decarbonization and others, which also is pretty significant. Any, again, rough cut breakdown of what this would entail, like in terms of decarbonization and other CapEx, what exactly are we looking at over the next five years?

To put it, it's a combination of multiple line items. So let's say, as you know, we have a public commitment for NET3O 2040, and we recently signed up for TNFT as a biodiversity reporting framework, where we have a guidance for 2050 net positive biodiversity. So these initiatives typically entail... Capex, which is in the nature of higher renewable and electricity. It could be the nature of higher sequestration activity, more plantation, microbes, etc. It will also typically entail active reduction of our emission footprint, which means that we will have substantially higher volume of actually operated trucks within our premises. We will have a very large part of our equipment running on electricity as opposed to diesel and things like that. So all of that is going to contribute significantly to the decarbonization plan. And the biodiversity plan that we have over the next half a decade or so. In addition, technology is an ongoing initiative. You have seen various agenda items like strategic command center that we demonstrated at our last investor day. And on the same line, there are multiple number of internal initiatives that are... We can take them so much. So that's also.

So, you know, Compliance is fine. of our Ambition 2031. That all the investments which we are doing in sustainability... I'm investing in the electric trucks in Munra. That is not only for environment. That is not only for ESG. It is bringing me economical benefits. That's why I'm investing. And also, in addition, it is contribution to the environment. The second, if I'm investing on the automation, it is bringing a better productivity of the train, better productivity of the yard, better productivity of blah, blah, blah. At the end, it is bringing. So for me, Technology is not a feature list of an equipment. Technology, for me, is a technology which brings economical benefits. Not only the decarbonization, but also... A maritime world. And globally, For example, you know, and we are now making the provisions for the shore power because we know after two and a half years, when international vessels will come to Moondra, they will... We are thinking and investing in advance, B, our shore power will be powered by the renewable energy, which is, for example, the fossil energy. And that's why it will bring the economical benefit. So for us, investment in decarbonization and technology is to bring.

Salt, can I take the liberty of asking one last question? Sir, I mean, there were news flow around the group possibly looking at shipbuilding opportunity. If anything happens there on Mundra, is it fair to assume it will happen under Adani quotes and tricks or would it be a separate issue?

You need to ask her shipbuilding and then in next quarter you will ask me what is your return on capital employment. What I will answer you, man.

No, sir, every business requires seeding time, so we would not ask you that initially.

I just want to understand. Give me a break, you will not wait for 18 years. I don't think that's our competency. Our competency is to build the infrastructure ecosystem and to run it efficiently and effectively. That's our competency. Our competency is not shipbuilding. If somebody comes and wants to build the ship at our Munra port, we have the EC approval, we will give it. We are very helpful because it is good for country. I don't think so. That's not our competence.

Perfect, sir. Thank you so much for that answer.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vivek from MK Global. Please go ahead.

Sure. Thank you for the opportunity, and congratulations on a good set of results. I just have a couple of questions. One on the resumption of Tata Power's operations. So, with respect to that, what can we expect in terms of volume growth at the Moondra plant?

Look at, where are you located? Mumbai?

Yes. Yeah, so you see the heat, right? They have to run at peak capacity. They have to run at maximum capacity.

Right.

And I don't think, I think we have a bit of monsoon this year. So last year, we faced the issue because there was a delayed monsoon, there was a heavy monsoon, and there was excessive renewable energy available because of hydro, if you remember, we had that discussion. But this year, I think we have this West Asia crisis where it is replaced. Trying to be replaced by electricity. Then we have this peak summers, and we also have a week of monsoon. So we must have a tailwind over there. I don't know how much, but Tata Power has been asked to run full pledge.

So, just to understand in terms of volumes, like... What percentage of volumes from Tata Power can we expect to flow through our ports?

So, Rick, look, in our previous transcripts, we have identified the volume loss that we've had in FY26 on account of CGPM. So, you might just want to refer to that. I would refrain from commenting on a specific volume from one particular customer on this call. But in the past, we have given references to the volume losses that we've had in code.

Thank you. Secondly, in terms of Visingham expansion, so what we see is we have a plan in place to expand the capacity from 1.6 million TEUs to 5.7 million by FI 29. Will we expect the expanded capacity to be operational on a staggered basis, or will it be all at once as of FI 29?

Step by step.

Okay. That's it for my end. Thank you.

Thank you.

Next question is from the line of Nidhi Shah from ICSA Securities. Please go ahead.

Thank you so much for taking my question. I wanted to ask what was the volume revenue EBITDA for the NQXC terminal that was recently added in our controls?

So, we have not separately disclosed that, but I suggest you please take a look at the presentation we uploaded when we made the announcement last year in April. That has the detailed financials of Australia. So, that will give you a good sense of what numbers have populated into this particular quarter. All right.

And secondly, in Mundra, you mentioned earlier in the year, because of Tata, we had faced that issue, but specifically this quarter as well, we're seeing that poll at Mundra is slightly lower and all across the board as well. So do we expect this to resolve in Cuba or do you think this will take some more time for the volumes to come back up?

Where you are seeing, your apparel is not yet finished.

Sorry, we did not completely get your question, we can just read it.

So, in the annexures for Q4's presentation, it is mentioned that the coal in port, basically the coal at Munra is lower than Q4 FY25, significantly lower. So, and coal volumes across all ports in Q4 FY26 have been lower than the base year. So, do we expect that the whole volume will come up in Q1?

Hello, sorry. Sorry. You know, your question is great. I think Raoul will make a separate call with you because I don't think we should look at coal as a coal. You have three kinds of coal. You have cooking coal where they have increased. We have more than 7.5%. Then we have the coastal coal, where we have increased 5.1%. And obviously, there is an imported coal, which is reduced, but that is in line with the country's strategic direction. So I think, please have an offline discussion with Ahul. We will give you all the data. But at the end, coal is increasing. The coal which is increasing is in the strategic direction of the country, which is more fossil coal and more coking coal because it supports the steam production.

And lastly, logistics volumes are not up significantly, but we're seeing that the EBITDA and the revenue per ton on that is growing significantly. So what is the strategy behind that?

The strategy is very simple. We wanted to demonstrate that we can give you double digit return on capital employed. So we adjusted our business mix to give you maximum return and bring the confidence in you. And now we will push the volume.

All right. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Sir, this is the final question. Please. That was the last question, sir.

Over to you for closing comments.

Thanks. Yeah. So, we'll just take one. Radharshi. So, moderator, I think we'll just allow Radharshi, please. He has one last question, and then we'll close. Sure. Sure.

Radharshi, please go ahead.

Yes, thank you for this opportunity. So, my question is, so if I see your port, India port's EBITDA performance, that's a good growth of about 10%, whereas volumes have been kind of flat on India port volumes. So, is that because a part of your revenue is in dollars and you are getting a currency benefit here? Or the other way to think of it, if you didn't have this currency movement, what would your EBITDA pattern improvement have been in this quarter?

Rajesh, you are right in that the realization is ahead of, the revenue growth is ahead of the volume growth, elevation is correct. It's not just currency, right? There's a combination of factors. It includes currency. There is also the component of the pricing changes that we take when products get revised, and it is also a function of product mix. Antainer being a fossil-growing commodity and marine-growing alongside it, because these are dollar-linked carcodes, naturally benefit us as the car rupee depreciates vis-a-vis-a-law. So it's not just one item, but it's a combination of all of these three that is working to our advantage in particular.

Thanks a lot for accommodating me. So, how much of your revenue, a broad number, is in dollars? Is it like 30%, 20%? How much would be in dollars?

So, if you look at our cargo, roughly about 40-45% of our cargo is containers. That's all I think. And our hardware income is all I think. I mean hardware income is all I think.

Thank you. Thanks a lot.

Thank you. Any closing comments, sir?

No, I think, first of all, I really want to say thank you for your continued confidence in APSX. I want to thank you for... Very thoughtful questions and the feedback and the advices, which helped us in improving quarter and quarter in terms of our communication, in terms of our engagement, in terms of our disclosure. That has helped us in preparing this very comprehensive, very detailed, and very simple Ambition 2031. Though we see uncertainties, but as I said before, our fundamentals are in place. And our strength, which is... Scale, but which is integrated, right? Makes us different than others. Whether it is port or logistics or marine, even the ports across 11,000 kilometers, even the 12 ITDs, trucking, rail, warehousing, everything is integrated. So we have that advantage of having scale plus integration. And scale plus integration is run by capability and the capacity to run it in the most efficient way. And that is demonstrated in our very strong top line and bottom line growth. And this all is coupled with the India growth story and as well as the international growth story, which is coming from IBAC and China Plus One and so on and so on. So with that story in mind, we keep the target of growing at CAGR of 18% to 19%. In group time, like last year, we could grow up to 25%, but still, you know, we want to keep our foot on the ground and keep delivering between 18% to 19% CAGR moving forward for next five years, and every quarter we meet. And we demonstrate that our execution of the strategy is working in the perfect way. So thank you once again, and I look forward to seeing you next time.

Thank you. On behalf of JM Financial Institution Securities Limited that concludes this conference, thank you for joining us and even now disconnect your line.