Anand Rathi Wealth Limited (ANANDRATHI) Q1 2027 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the quarter 1 of Financial Year 2027 Earnings Call hosted by Anand Rati Bells Limited. As a reminder, all parts per nines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Feroz Aziz, Joint CEO of Anandrati Wealth Limited. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Aziz.

Thank you so much, Michelle. Good afternoon, and thank you, everyone, for joining the earnings conference call for quarter ended 30th June, 2026. Thanks. We have today with us the Group CFO, Mr. Jugal Mantri, the CFO of ARWL, Mr. Rajesh Sabrutra, and our Head Investor Relationships, Mr. Vishal Sangwi. As we have always shared with you, we remain committed to delivering consistent profit growth. I am pleased to report that we have delivered another quarter of consistent performance, which is our 19th quarterly result. I would like to sincerely thank our clients, employees, and all our stakeholders for their continued trust and support. Despite the volatility which you all are aware of, in the quarter one FY27, our uncomplicated business model and unwavering focus on client outcomes helped us deliver consistent market agnostic growth. This once again demonstrates the strength and Resilience and the scalability of our business. The mean YOY growth of our last 17 quarters, skipping the first two because there was a COVID base, profit has been growing, has grown at a mean median of 31.7%, YOY, and the mean of, sorry, mean was 31.7% and median was 33.1%. Seldom do listed companies measure the consistency of the earnings, and the standard deviation of these 17 numbers, which are YOY path growths declared for the last 17 quarters, the standard deviation was 4.8%, reflecting the consistency of our performance mathematically rather than in English. Total AUM grew by 21% YOY to 1,6,300 crores as on June 30, 2026, supported by the net flows of 2,743 crores for the quarter, despite high volatility. Equity capital markets reflect our clients' continued confidence in our business model. So this quarter, we had 1,900 crores of net sales in equity mutual funds alone. In our flagship business, in the last 12 months, we have added 1,600-plus new client families on a net basis, bringing our total number to close to 14,000, to be precise, 13,941. Client attrition rate in terms of AUM lost for Q1 FY27 was 0.09%. We'd love to see this number second decimal, but yeah, we'd love to see it zero, in fact. Underscoring the strength of our client-centric uncomplicated approach. Zero regret RM attrition for the quarter is another highlight. Now, I will hand over the conference to our group CFO, Mr. Jugalmantri, to give you all the updates of this Jugalmantri.

For Q1 FY27, we have achieved revenue guidance of Rs.1415 crores and 25% strong business leaders ahead. We remain confident of achieving our guidance. Reported numbers, including fair value gains on investments, ease of expenses, and the related combined tax effects, total revenue for Q1 FY27 stood at Rs. 430 crores and paid at Rs. 163 crores. That's all on the financial numbers. Now, we can start question and answer session. Over to you, Ms. Vishal.

Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions, may please press star and 1 on their touchtone phone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. You may please press star and 1 to ask questions. The first question is from the line of Shubhi Gupta from 3 Netra Asset Managers. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, sir. So my first question is that we are expecting platinum families to grow from 211 to about 450 to 500 over two years. So I wanted to ask what is the quarter one update on that number and how much is the contribution from them? My second question is that clients from less than 5 crore bracket upgrades themselves to 50 crore bracket. So I wanted to understand at what rate does that happen? Every year, how much of the first bucket upgrades to the second bucket?

Did you get your second question, Shubhi, if you can repeat that to me?

So, yeah, so basically clients from less than 5 crore bracket upgrades themselves to 50 crore bracket, So I wanted to understand that at what rate does that happen? How much of that first bucket gets transferred to the – or upgrades themselves to the second bucket?

Great. See, the first – so first question is, what's the update on the platinum clients? I think platinum clients would be about 230 now, approximately, from 211. And since this is a segment which we have launched just about two and a half years back, when we actually launched this segment, we had about 40, 45 clients only. So if you ask me whether we will get to that 400, 500 number sooner than later, of course, the second question automatically is the next question of the first question or the subset to the first question, how many people upgrade. 5 to 50 is a large segment. So we are actually now also trying to segment our clients into gold and platinum. These will be the only two segments we wish currently to have. So I think the upgrade rates would be something like a few a quarter, 10, 15, 20 a quarter, that would be my guess, because we generally believe in not going to people. Quite a few wealth management outfits. Figure out who's got into money by a transaction. Large real estate transactions or large private equity transactions. If people come into money, a few hundred crores. Most wealth management outfits reach there and try and get a share out of that. We believe in growing our clients internally. So I think there will be a hockey stick kind of a count increase. Like in the last two years, it went up from 4550 to 230. So I wouldn't be surprised that you would see it in four digits.

Okay, sir. So, just one more question. Sir, AUM per RM has been increasing. I think it was 230 crores per RM, and now it's been increasing. So, is there a cap on that, or how do we see that progress?

See, there's no cap in terms of the amount of money. Of course, there are relationship managers who've spent about 15, 18 years with our company. Most of them could be at 500, 800, 1000, 1500 crores also. If somebody has created a business for about a couple of decades, this business is about mass and time, not about speed. That's what we've been saying. So, Rolling Stone, there's no mass in this business. Anybody who changes companies in this business has, if you look at data, anybody who changes more than three companies, the guy leaves the wealth management industry before he retires. So, coming back, is there a cap on the AUM? The answer is no. Should that number go up? The answer is yes. When we got listed, if I'm not wrong, that's when we got to 100 crore per relationship manager. Now we've had more relationship managers, and we have more AUM per RM. And since this business, the key crux is what's your client attrition, what's your RM attrition. If your client attrition is 0.09, it is but obvious that this number will keep going up. So quite a few companies, AUM per RM can come down. Then you would automatically, and it's a cause and effect, so you'll automatically work backwards to check What is the client attrition? You will see in a few percentage, 4, 5, 7, 10% also in so many wealth management outfits. So, will this number grow? The answer is yes. If this number grow somewhere, I am a relationship manager. In fact, most of our leaders, we have about 80, 60 leaders and 19 unit heads. All of them are relationship managers, but Rakesh also manages clients. I manage clients. I think...

Thank you so much, sir. This was very helpful.

We'll take the next question from the line of Jignesh, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Yeah. So, I had two questions. First is, in such a bad market like we had from April to June, how do we actually manage our asset allocation during such a high volatile market? Second is, why I think you as a house are having a call that will not invest in gold? But, sir, wouldn't it be fair that many of the people have invested in multi-asset funds and maybe sold out in the last quarter and entered small cash? So, I wanted to understand this. How is it actively managed?

Great. We see, of course, asset allocation. If your overall risk is high in the portfolio, like we measured it in the form of beta, of course, most of the people on the call would know well up there from the financial services industry because we have a lot of analysts. Beta is a risk measure, basically trying to evaluate the risk relative to a certain index. If my beta is very high, then I need to do active management. Let's assume if a treasury is there, he's got some portion of his money with two beta. Then he needs to go in and come out of the market. We operate, highest beta portfolio is 0.6, 0.65. That means you're taking lower risk than nifty, mathematically, not in perception. In mathematics, you're taking lower risk than nifty, so you don't need too much dynamism. So that's point one. Point two, you're not buying the riskiest asset in equity. I buy mutual funds currently because that's the most tax-efficient platform. And mathematically, if someone were to, without being too biased, if he tries to create a diversified portfolio, mutual fund becomes the best platform. Allocation and structure products makes my overall portfolio a low beta portfolio, hence active management on asset allocation becomes lower of the need. Very important principle, and that's the foundation stone on which our cultural or our professional fabric is at least laid out is we buy, we sell what we buy rather than sell what sells. So gold already is 28% of India's household savings. Out of the 1,600 lakh crores approximately, 28%, which is $4 trillion or 4 crore crores is already there in gold in the form of 30,000 tons. If already we have so much gold, if wealth management also starts selling gold, then an equity mutual fund is 1.8%. And I'm supposed to be selling equity mutual funds. If I start selling gold, which is already 28% of Indian household savings, especially after the gold has gone up three times, that's the reason why we don't recommend gold. Because India has enough of it, and it has doubled after 20, almost 15 years later, gold has got this rally above 2,000, going to 5,600, and people are still recommending gold in January when the gold had touched 5,500. So that's why we don't recommend gold, because India has enough of real estate and gold.

Right. So out of your total portfolio allocations in mutual fund, all are purely into equity as of now?

No, not purely to equity. If I remember right, we have about 50 crores in equity, 4,500 crores in debt, and some structure products, and some raw material which gets aligned to the model portfolio over periods of time. So, it's a combination of all, but largely mutual funds and structure products. Okay. Right. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohan M. from Equirus Security. Please go ahead.

Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on Good Settle numbers. Sir, Andre, what do you ask on this other income on the 110 crores that you have booked? What is sitting in there?

So, 110 crores of other income is basically mark-to-market gains of our holding. Jugal sir, you want to take that one?

96 crore rupees, that is mark-to-market gain in the holding of Anand Rahi Global Finance Ltd. And that is the normal other income which is interest, income on the surplus which we carry.

And just on this NBFC re-evaluation that we have done, like what is the thought process behind that? Like how did we re-value it?

No, no, we don't revalue. We get it revalued from the third party. So, investment banker, he does the revaluation, and this has to be revalued in every six months. So, this is obligatory on us to get the company revalued every six months, and we should incorporate that revaluation in either the increase or decrease in valuation, whatever comes. We have to incorporate the same in our P&L account.

And what would be the primary and secondary issuances of M&A Squadron?

See, the primary issuances at the gross level in Q1 was about 8% higher compared to last year. So it was to the group companies. So it was 1,875 crore compared to 1,704 crore to the group companies. And 312 crores of the primary issuances of the third parties. So, total it was 2,187 crores compared to 1,704 crores in Q1 of FI 25. And the number was 968 crores in Q1 FI 27 compared to 755 crores in Q1 FI 26.

Sure, sir. Thank you. Okay.

Thanks.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vikas Agarwal, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Thank you so much. I have a question for Feroz. I remember Feroz have once told that three of his RM had gone to competitors. So, what is the retention of their assets? Like, how do you retain their assets to switch to competitors?

Mr. Vikas, right? Mr. Vikas, thank you so much for your question. Yes, you remember right. I think in the last or the last earnings call or the December quarter ending, I said that three of our colleagues went to a specific company, which – so, I have my colleague. So, we basically believe that when a person goes to a newer platform or another company change, if the company is a very process-driven company, client retention becomes a very important objective, and that has been achieved in the form of, if I'm not wrong, generally 70 to 80% of the assets at least get retained. This specific company was wanting to hire people at very obscene salaries because they had raised some capital. So that's why I might have mentioned that three people went there and that data, you have, okay? Yeah, I'll give you the precise numbers. I think it will be in the range of 80% retention. Now, when you look at retention, we don't add mark to market. We take the precise net flow of those specific clients who were mapped to that person on the gate of resignation. Yes, you have a question. Just thank you. Do you have another question? Yeah, in the meantime, you can pull it up.

Yeah. How do you plan to de-risk your structured product business?

De-risk structured product business. So, basically, when you look at our recommendation to our clients, it's mutual funds and structured products. There are 20 different product lines are possible. We believe opportunity is overrated. Focus is underrated. This is what Rakesh Suresh taught us, who is our CEO. Don't have to give everything to the client. So, structure product itself is a market risk reduction mechanism for us. In that structure product, we sell Anandrati global finance structure products and third-party products. The proportion of Anandrati is greater, and third party is low, because we believe that lending money to somebody else, you have to be very, very careful of a credit risk not rectifying. So Anandrati Global Finance is a group company, and that's why our comfort remains there. What you might see as a mutual fund's conventional bonds, which were there in the mutual funds, structure product helps you de-risk the market and brings down the beta of one's portfolio. That's one. Second, when you are speaking about concentration risk, concentration risk on ARGFL is because we believe that lending to certain corporate, you have to be very, very careful because belt risk can't fructify. So, what you see as risk is my de-risk.

Thank you so much. And now, we will get ready for this number.

So, the day when these three gentlemen designed, incidentally, all these three were from, So, 758 crores is what they had. Net flow was 73 crores, correct? 2 crores in July. So, now we have 685 crores of the 758 crores with us currently. 658.5. This is as of June. So, one person could take away a little more. The other could take away a little less. So, basically 90% of it is retained approximately without the market movement. Does it answer, Vikas, as precisely I could get?

Yeah, this was a pretty good explanation for sure. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anita Singhania, an individual investor.

Yeah, good afternoon. I would like to ask two questions.

Ma'am, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Ma'am, there is a follow-up on the line. Can you mute all the other lines which are connected from the same room?

Yeah. Is it that enough?

Yes, please go ahead.

Yeah, so I have two questions. My first question is, as you already applied for mutual fund license, is there any plan to expand in other capital market businesses such as investment banking or others? And my second question is, can you explain your plan and views on the liberalized remittance scheme?

So, yes, we have just got a board consent approval to apply for an AMC license. We believe that arming ourselves is very critical because we have some aspirations, long-term aspirations for this business. So, arming ourselves with all the ability is something which we see as our duty towards our shareholder. So, yes, that's about consent to go and apply for the AMC license, one. Second, will we get into investment banking? Of course, the Anand Rahi group already has an investment banking wing. I guess you are asking me this question because quite a few wealth management outfits try to get their assets from investment banking transactions like I just alluded to in the previous answer. Sometimes people go after, that those are, we believe that that is capital management, not wealth management. By design, wealth management is intergenerational in our belief. So we are trying to get that portion of the assets, like 1,6,300 crores has been filtered to see a large portion of that is intergenerational wealth. So, investment banking for the world has a very large synergy with wealth management, but we believe that getting intergenerational wealth doesn't come from investment banking transactions. That's why, for example, I must tell you, Mr. Ghania, that one of my friends works with a real estate firm, and he says that the promoter has got a few hundred crores or a little over thousand crores for next five, six years he can invest. I'd say Anandrarti Wealth Limited is not interested in five, six-year money. So that's why no investment banking. And of course, quite a few people have had a strategy to build it there. There's nothing wrong with it or right with our strategy. But yeah, we want to not focus on capital management, but in business management, wealth management, business is more longer term and intergenerational wealth is what we again say, we understand India, and we are still somewhere we are scratching the surface. If I have to give global recommendation across so many 200 product people sitting somewhere in Singapore or Dubai, making tie-ups is very easy. A wealth management like ourselves can go to another private bank and tie-up and refer our clients. But we have been told, opportunity, you are better off doing that. You can't be portions of their money. So LRS is something which is steady, but we are...

Okay. Thank you so much, Feroz. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Lalit Mohan Deho from Aquarius Security. Please go ahead.

Just two questions. Firstly, on the mutual fund business, we have been hearing that a lot of larger AMPs have said that due to a change in the PIR, I tried attempting to.

First one is AMCs to transmit all the TR pressures to distributors. Is that your first question, sir? I think some degree of to and fro happens. But since we are a seriously large distributor, it becomes difficult for them to also transmit all of it. Whatever is rightfully ours, one, two bits, I think I would have told you last time also, those get passed on. But now that you have brought me to the subject, I would like to highlight, in 1920, about 6-7 years back, out of the total net sale in India, Anandrathi Wealth Limited was 0.18%. Now, you would be happy to note, if you are already a shareholder, that the 0.18% market share on net flow has gone up to 2.47% in the presentation. So since we are a large distributor, we also have some only wealth management, one of the few wealth management outfits which participate are long positions of our clients only using a mutual fund. We don't recommend stocks, we don't recommend PMS, we don't recommend long only AIF currently. If my clients need it, someday I might. So, my other wealth management distributions will generally be having mutual fund as one of the products. So, it gives me that little extra, but 1, 2, 3 bps of transmission might happen here or there. Like I told last time, Trump decides my yield better, more, because mark-to-market comes because of that. So, 2, 3 bps is very little on a base of 1.09, if I remember. Does it answer, sir, the first question? And with my bad memory, I've forgotten the second one. If you could just prompt me again. Circular, I see that as a great circular. In India, because of GST and other things, inefficiency coming in. Or a derivative trader can, in fact, in India you can see some, on naked eye you can see arbitrage. Arbitrage is supposed to be identified by second decimal computer. Sometimes when I see the terminal, I can see some arbitrage. So I am very glad that some degree of volume of all these high frequency traders will definitely get curtailed. The transfer of wealth becomes a little more difficult. For example, let me give you this example. Sorry, on an earnings call, I am giving you this example. Nifty can be rolled over in a spread window. The underlying constituents, there is no spread window for rolling it over. This is like a huge arbitrage. I am sure in terms of what technicality I am speaking about. If somebody wants to roll over their short or long position on Nifty, there is a spread window. But stocks, which are the underlying 50 stocks of Nifty, don't have a spread window. So, higher the restriction on high-frequency traders or learned people who actually operate their computers, supercomputers on Black Souls pricing model, it had become really easy. So, RBI Circular brings down these frothy volumes, which were the largest cause of wealth transfer between Indian retail and somebody whose second decimal understands second-order Greeks of derivatives. So, I am very happy about that. Second, what will be the impact on us? Negligible or nil? No, in fact, positive impact. Because if you see the last Tuesday, so many Tuesdays, you see these one-minute candles with 100-point movement. That is largely because of high-frequency traders. So market volatility will become a little more smoother on Tuesdays and Thursdays is my assumption. So it's better, and I'm very happy for the country and its regulation.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akhil from SKVM Company. Please go ahead.

Yes, good afternoon. Yes, good afternoon. Am I audible? Yes, you are. First of all, congratulations. My name is C.S. Akhil, not Akhil. What typing error, I don't know. I am your customer also, client, since last 10 years, And I'm a practicing child accountant and independent director in three of the companies. And first of all, congratulations to you all, sir, on such wonderful results. Would like to know only one small thing. At this pace, when you are reaching to a mutual fund industry, your A.U.M. share now is made of 4-5 kakka, what is your long-term aspiration?

Sachin, sir, thank you. Akhil, sir. Akhil, sir, where is it? Sachin. Sachin, sir, thank you for your question, and thank you to be our client for 10 years. I'm extremely grateful, because interesting hard-earned monies is one of the best things you could do for us.

Also, a shareholder in your company. Client plus shareholder both.

Thank you, sir. Of course, we are a shareholder. Thank you very much for your support. तो चार परसेंट ले जाने की हमारी चेश्टा है. वो चार परसेंट ले जाने के लिए हमने क्या किया कि हमने प्रोजेक्ट किया कि 10 साल बाद म्यूटूल फ़ण इंडस्ट्री की ये कैटेगरी ट्रू कितनी होगी? तो डेड़ लाक करोड तक पहुंच सकती है. अगर मैं आ Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the call.

For a question, I would like to ask you, you know, AMC's license and your own own own own own own own own own own own own own own own

own own own own own own own own License भी ले रहे हैं, ले चुके हैं, उस विशाल जी बताएंगे, आपको मतला विशाल जी बताएंगे, आपको फर्स स्टेज हो चुका है, सेकेंड स्टेज, ये हमारी दो कंपनिया हो गई, और ये AMC की license का ब्रोड का भी यही मानना था कि ये करना जरूर चाहिए है, और ये � We did our best as a professional duty. We want to make sure that we look at all half a percent risk, one percent risk, and mitigate those.

Thank you so much, sir.

Thank you, sir.

So, thank you for answering those questions. The participant has left the queue. We'll move on to the next question from the line of Priyank S. from Three Netra Asset Managers. Please go ahead.

Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. While our, you know, legacy business has been growing steadfastly and in a calibrated manner, I just wanted to understand, you know, is there any sort of AUM figure that you all are aspiring to be in the next five, six years, you know, which will be divided between our structured and the mutual funding business, A. B, I also wanted to ask, you know, that this has now become the norm that all large-scale distributors are going towards setting up their own mutual fund business. And we understand, you know, that this is ideally you get more control and the yields also, you know, see an uptick. So is that with our line of thinking? And third is the UK business, there's a huge NRI market there. Thank you.

Priyanka sir, first is yes, quite a few distributors might have done something like backward integration. Like you see the first slide in my presentation of the company. Those are our learnings, which we have learned the hard way. So, we have published it for anybody who gets lured with the wealth management business. Like I said, wealth management is optically very, very easy business from outside on Excel sheets, and it is as difficult as it could get internally. That's my judgment, having spent a couple of decades in this industry. So, in that, you would see point number three. Wealth management is a business of backward integration, not forward integration or simultaneous integration. So that's why now that we have 18, 20 years of having a backward integration made sense for us. That's why we are doing it, not because somebody else is doing it. There are some wealth management outfits which raise capital and start all businesses at once. All the best, but we think that it has to be backward. We are doing that, but like you would have seen, we have never attacked anything on the basis of technology. So similarly, we would want to underplay it currently, but it is not stemming from who else did it. It is an individual thought process, and it is consistent with what is written in point number three of the first slide. And then, sir, ask me what question, Priyank. Sorry, when I'm answering one, I forget the next one.

So, I just wanted to understand any sort of specific AUM figure that you are aspiring to be four years from now, five years from now that would give us some sort of visibility.

Yes. So, we have done projections for long periods of time. But how you should look at it if you want to model, once I think about 4-5 quarters back, somebody will ask me how we look at it internally and actually share the model also on my website. No, you're not. So basically how we look at it is, whatever assets we currently manage, 1,06,000, markets can't be subdued forever. Last two years, Nifty went on a negative, slipped into a two-year negative return on 9 June of this year. Nifty can't be negative eternally. Okay, if you look at the past, just before I come to my specific AUM, I'm just giving you some color, which I had done a study. It was interesting for anybody who has some money in the Indian capital market. Anytime Nifty delivered two years negative return over the last 26 years, there are 50 observations out of 291 with monthly shift, which gave a negative return for two years. The subsequent three years, all those 50 observations were positive, and the worst return was 4.1, best return was 56.8, mean return was 21.6, and median return was 20.2. So, having said which, if history has any merit, the probability that Nifty will deliver more than its historical median return of 11% is very high for the subsequent project. Our AUMs, on the basis of 10, you can grow the net sales also at the rate of 10-12%, which we target. So, basically, a 20-25% AUM, 1% per month. My AUM is 1,066.

And just a short answer on the UK business. Is that exciting? Are the years better than the Indian business? How do you look at it?

Generally, yeah, it is exciting, but I've realized that when we look at mathematics of a certain business, we'd like to be excited after some numbers trickle because, yeah, we are happy that we now have a UK subsidiary. Will we try and scale it up very soon? We hire a lot of people. That's not our style. We like to build it brick by brick. So, if somebody is not a shareholder for 10 years, 5 years, 7 years, we should not even worry about this as honest as I could be.

Sure, sir. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rupali Patin from Elementus. Please go ahead.

Hello. Yeah, sorry, so this is Vivek Patil here, my questions and issues, so I'm just calling from a microphone. So we are basically in the ARWL family now, and thank you for allowing us to be a part of your family. So once again, Piroz sir and ARWL team, congratulations on the stupendous success. Yes. In fact, it's what, as you are saying, that is 31% year over year over the last 17 quarters, accepting that COVID part. And at the same time, maintaining this particular, or increasing this AUM to 1,06,000 crores. So, with this, actually, this is translating to something like 25%, 30%, 20%, 25% annual growth or whatever, if you consider all these other, you know, allow for certain relaxations here and there. So with this increased AUM, how do you see that in the coming years, in the coming three, four years, if you are able to maintain this particular growth, the AUM and the growth, as well as this increase? Of course, most of it is coming out of your increase in the performance, and then it will come as increasing the AUM to new acquisitions, et cetera. But with this, how do you see this growth being maintained and kept intact over the next three to four years?

Three to four years, I think the growth has to be a reasonable high probability retention. Because what happens is, like we said, we're very passionate about how we manage as against how much we manage. If you look at the mark-to-market gain, which is easy for one to calculate backwardly, backward calculation. After we have listed, our clients have made 28-30,000 crores of profit itself. If you look at net sale, my AUM minus net sale will be my mark-to-market. My clients have made in a bad time. Of course, any client who has joined us in the last two years has not made the expected return because Nifty has delivered 3%, 2%, depending on which particular period did he come in, in 2024. So what I'm trying to get to is this business inherently is an easy business if you don't have client attrition. If you do justice to one's money, the clients are going nowhere. That's one. And if you should be very passionate about clients, expectations should be lower than what you can deliver. So, coming back, can you grow this business for three, four, five years at 20, 25%? In our judgment, yes. That's the order I have from my boss, Mr. Ravel. And as a professional group, I'm speaking on behalf of all the 400-odd relationship managers and account managers that we'll do our best. Now, coming to where does this come from? There are four mutually exclusive cylinders to fire. One is implied growth or an embedded growth of returns of clients. Okay, when I look at my clients' portfolios, who are long-term-ish clients, 15-16% has happened, even on the model portfolio level, even at delivery. That's the embedded growth in our business. Then new clients of existing relationship managers. Today, the number of relationship clients per RM is 33. That means we already have plant and machinery to have 17 more clients into 4,400 odd, which is close to 6,500 new client families can be handled by the same colleague set of ours. That's called new client acquisition of existing capacity being utilized, capacity utilization. Third cylinder is new relationship managers. We have 490 people trained. It's easiest about it eight years back. Hiring a youngster, set of RMs are being prepared or are 60% right. They say, more plant and machinery for acquiring more clients. Then the last one is existing clients. This 1 lakh 6,000 crore, 13,941 families. And we don't tell our clients to start big. If anyone has dealt with us, we don't tell him, sir, why don't you start 10 crore or 5 crore? Most private bankers will tell you that, put a gut on your head and say, start with 4 crore. Some time back, we were also ready to start with 50 lakhs for a person who has 10 crore. Because if I don't do lip service, he will give me the money if I deserve it. That was the secure place which Rakesh sir had suggested us to be. So, this 1,6,000 crores of 13,000 families, which we are in the process of measuring it accurately, you will at least have twice more that outside. So, that is called penetration. So, capacity utilization, penetration, new RMs, and embedded growth. So, these four put together, 20 to 25 percent. Last quarter wasn't easy from a sentiment standpoint. We'll do a bit. So, odds, if you ask me to put an odds, I would do 90-95 percent. Some odds have to be given to God.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Good luck. Thank you so much, sir, to be a part of our family. I don't know as a client or a shareholder, but yeah, we are a family. Thank you, sir.

Thank you, sir. We'll take the next question from the line of Sunil Shah from SRE PMS. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thanks. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Feroz, for this opportunity one more time. Feroz, just to announce it, will sound off some of the thoughts which are there. I hope I'm audible. Yes, Sunil, sir. Yeah, hi. Thank you, sir. So just now that we have a successful track record of like more than decades plus, how about taking this entire structured product thing to the global markets? We have some kind of a, you know, formula based trading that we do with the structured products on our Nifty, etc. Why not try this for various global indices? Now, clearly, there has to be some other party thing. Like here, we have our sister, Kansan, who is giving us the other party side of the transaction as well. What about targeting those global banks on this, the Citibank, the HSBC, the JP Morgan, and over time, maybe not in like one quarter, two quarter, but directionally, try to replicate our entire model in the global market so that then the world of global markets, Growth opens up for us. Just a thought and then, you know, we can do it through the wealth platform that we have. We can have the AIF thing if you want to take some higher fees. And now we are also getting the board approval for the mutual fund. So even in the mutual fund industry, as a differentiated product over a period of time where even if in the AMC business we are a late entry, but the differentiation can really be a huge winner with time. So, just wanted to sound as feroz and wanted to hear your thoughts on what I'm talking. If at all, you know, you can just discuss this out with me, please.

Sure, Sunil, sir. Your suggestions have always been thought-provoking. One person has consistently given us guidance on this earnings call. If not all the 19, you might have guided us in 10 of those. And I'm very grateful. So, as soon as I hear your shubh now, I might become a little more attentive. I'm very grateful for that. Now, coming to my reaction as a company, can we look at structured products on other indices or in other denominations on Nifty as an index? Definitely can be explored, especially when you have an NRI platform now in the form of a UK subsidiary, and we have a product which is in UK for tax efficiency for UK participants in India. We have made a fund of fund there, 11 schemes, which are listed there, which is very tax efficient. So those clients need wealth. Structure products, globally, structure products is very, very popular. I am told that in Singapore, 50% of one's H&I portfolio is structure products because you are able to create a risk return profile using a Black Souls pricing model precisely to the need of it. So coming back, should we explore that? Yes, sir, we will definitely explore that. Has Mr. Kalpesh Kuradia, who is the head of designing of structure products, and global market were very low. So the products you design that would be more call buying than put selling because the forward rates have also gone up there. So you're absolutely right. Volatility has gone up and interest rates are a good raw material for a good structure product pricing. But, yeah, I will make sure that designing and deliberate if you have any interest on that, and then you might more guide it.

Yeah, sure, Firoz. So, you know, that's the whole idea that, you know, we have done this for a long period of time. As a company, we have grown, we have built a team. The third element of sustainable growth is that innovation part, you know. And if we are able to do that, I think we still have a long, long way to go on the growth front. So, just wanted to share and good to hear you. And I'll take this with Kalpesh offline as well to understand the things that are going on. Thanks. Thanks, everybody in the Anandrati family for this call and having me on the session.

Next question is from the line of Arun Gopal, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon. Thank you very much, and congratulations on the entire team who could make up a return of 23.5% year-on-year basis on this quarter where everybody was struggling to just even meet, just being neutral, a level of growth. So, congratulations to your team. That's where Anandarati stands apart, making growth uncomplicated. That's absolutely what you all stand for. I'm an investor and a shareholder of Anandarati right from the right view, an investor for the last eight years. I really appreciate your hard work and your vision and the mission of your organization, which has really returned a lot of good wealth to all your stakeholders and shareholders.

Thank you, Arun, sir. And if I recognize you from your voice, Arun is a common name. Arun, sir, from Bangalore, right? Chennai. Chennai. Okay, great.

I was in Abu Dhabi and I moved on to Chennai for my mother.

Thank you to be our shareholder and client for so long. One thing I should know that you gave us such a positive comment almost at the fag end of the call. I must say that clients have been very, very patient during bad times, and they have also looked at supporting us by giving us fresh monies. We believe that when you get money at lows, which is very difficult, the sales cycles are larger, it's very difficult emotionally for people to cut a check when the market is down and out. So, Rakesh has designed our minds to be long-term thinking, is why I am able to take courage, and I am able to, as a company, transmit courage, but clients have given us more money, one. And second, thanks to the mutual fund selection process, out of the 924 schemes, choosing those 14, mathematically using all the signs possible over the last 12-13 years of evolution, we have our mutual fund head, whom I have worked for 18 years, Shweta Rajani. Sorry, I am always the person who is the front of it. So, there are some heroes, unsung heroines, who are there at the back. So, I am not missing the opportunity to recognize Shweta Rajani, who has been doing mutual funds in my Macquarie and Religate Aftar. I know her. From 2008-09, she has only lifted mutual funds. One of the biggest names in the mutual fund industry. She has chosen those schemes, and you will be happy to note, from 1st April to 30th June, our model portfolio has beaten Nifty by about 6%, if I am not wrong. All the 14 schemes have beaten NIFTY. It seldom happens, so I am highlighting. Always there will be 2-3 laggards which will become better in the next quarter and so on and so forth. But thanks to clients and Shweta, our client outcomes have been very beautiful last quarter. NIFTY has done about 7% NIFTY gave. Mutual fund portfolio 14 schemes have given 7% after our cost. Shweta and clients, thank you Arun sir for such a positive comment. Made my weekend.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference back to Mr. Feroz Aziz for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

So, I am very, very grateful for everyone's time. I know it's a Friday, and you have consistently supported us as a client, as a shareholder, as a person at the capital market. As always, I would want to reassure that we stand by our indications, and we will do our professional best to serve our clients first, and then our shareholders. I look forward to the continued support which each of you have given us in the past four and a half years and before.

Thank you, sir. Thank you, members of the management. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Anand Ratti Vence Limited, that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect.

Thank you.