Ashiana Housing Limited (ASHIANA) Q1 2027 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Vashiana Housing Limited Q1-FI27 Earnings Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference has been recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Kunjal Agarwal from Aryan Capital Market. Thank you and over to you.

Hello, and good evening to everyone. On behalf of Aryan Capital Markets Limited, I thank you all for joining into Q1SR27 owning concrete fall of Asiana Housing Limited. Today, from the management, we have Mr. Varun Gupta, the whole-time director, and Mr. Vikas Duggar, the chief PFO of the company. So, without any further delay, I would hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks. Over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and a warm welcome to all of you for joining our earnings conference call for the first quarter of financial year 2027. The real estate sector entered FY27 on a more moderated note after the strong momentum witnessed through FY26. Residential demand across key markets softened somewhat during the quarter, weighed down by global economic uncertainty and a cautious wait-and-watch approach among some homebuyers. At the same time, developers continue to remain confident in the medium-to-long-term outlook, with new project launches holding firm and prices remaining resilient across most markets. Premiumization continued to be dependent with large increasingly gravitating towards larger well-designed homes. From established and financially disciplined developers, reinforcing the ongoing shift towards organized and branded players. The senior living segment continued to remain relatively insulated from these broader demand fluctuations, supported by structural demographic-led growth drivers, changing family structures, rising urbanization, and a growing preference for community-based living among senior citizens continue to strengthen the long-term pace for this segment. With organized supply still limited relative to the size of India's Asian population, the opportunity for established pairs in this space remains significant and largely unaffected by short-term cyclicality in the broader housing market. I will now take you through our operating highlights for the quarter, followed by our financial performance. Starting with our operational performance for the quarter, the company recorded a booking value of Rs. 358 crores. 3.6 lakhs square feet of area sold across to 34 units. While bookings moderated compared to the exceptionally strong preceding quarter, our collections remained healthy at Rs.409 crore, registering a 6% year-on-year growth. Reflecting sustained customer confidence and strong collection efficiency. Avis realization also improved significantly to Rs.9923 per square foot. Representing a 37% year-on-year increase driven by a favorable product mix and continued pricing resilience across our portfolio. During the quarter, we made a significant investment towards our future growth pipeline through acquisition of 28.55 acres of land at Wadgaon, Mawal in Pune. This is the largest ever land acquisition undertaken by the company for a senior living project. With an estimated sellable area of approximately 20 lakhs square feet and a potential sales value of around 1,200 acres. On the execution front, we commenced handover for phase 1 of Asiaga Nithara in Jaipur during the quarter. Marking another important milestone in our project delivery. Overall, we continue to make meaningful progress across the key pillars of our long-term growth strategy by maintaining a diversified geographical presence, expanding our senior living portfolio, strengthening our development pipeline, and progressing steady on project execution. Speaking of financial performance, revenue from operations for the quarters to debt Rs 107 crore compared to Rs 293 crores in Q1 FY26. Revenue recognition in Q1 FY27 was previously driven by handovers at Ashina Nithara in Jaipur. Higher revenue in FY26 was attributable to more deliveries. Pat for Q1 FY27 was lower vis-a-vis Q4 of FY26 due to lower deliveries. Importantly, our operating cash generation remained healthy during the quarter at Rs. 121 crores compared to Rs. 108 crores in same quarter last year. This reflects the strength of our collections, disciplined execution, and efficient working capital management despite lower reported revenues. We also commence the redemption of NCDs issued to ICSA Prudential. Mutual fund during the quarter, 31.25 crore, representing 25% of the original issue, was redeemed. Overall, while the reported revenue for the quarter was impacted by timing of project handovers, the company continued to demonstrate healthy operating cash flow generation, maintained a disciplined approach towards capital allocation, and strengthened its development pipeline, particularly in the senior living segment. With this, I would like to open the floor. Thank you for the Q&A session.

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Rohan Joshi, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Hi, sir. Audible?

Yeah, you are Audible, Ron.

So, thank you for giving me the opportunity. So, my question was on the line that the quarter one booking suggests a back-end year versus a full-year target. So, I just want to know that which specific launches are expected to drive the bookings in F2? And, like, what gives the confidence in hitting the F527 guidance that you have given in the previous concours, given this soft start?

Why don't you take it up though?

So, you are right that the quarter one has been relatively shorter, but we have got launches lined up. And there are a couple of launches lined up in Q4 that we have in the present year.

Okay. So, just, I will just, I will come in, sorry. In July, we took out an operational update. So, in July, we had a great launch of a project called Asana Oma. So, as of 31st July, our full-year sales had reached to about 859 odd crores, if I were to say. So, if you look at the July month was better than actually all the entire first quarter. So, I would say in the first half itself, exit September 30th, we should somewhere be between 1050 and 1100 crores.

So, run rate will be maintained from there on.

And in the second half of the year, the big launch that is lined up is Ashana Arum's Phase 3 in Gurgaon. That will be critical in taking us through to the guidance. So, that will be in either Q3 or Q4 of this year.

Okay, got it, got it, sir. And then my second question was regarding the pre-sales growth that we will have. So pre-sales grew very well last year as we have seen. So what is the sustainable pre-sales trajectory from here on onwards for the next three to five years?

So, on that front, we are not as looking for sustained pre-sales growth in the near term. I think what we are planning is what do we do in the long term thing. So, we might have actually a little bit of dip in pre-sales this year or the next and then let's say let's get back to a certain number in 2029 or 2930. A little bit of that is being driven by a little lack of inventory to sell coming up in Burgaon, in Jaipur, in Biwadi, some of the key markets in the regular housing space. This is primarily happening because the company is shifting more and more capital towards the senior living space, where we see a much longer, deeper opportunity. So, I think like in the senior living space, we are looking for about 25% CAGR to be maintained over the long term, though at a low base, we had started about 100 crores five years ago and pre-sales of about 570 last year in senior living. And we are looking to really, really actually expand that even at a faster category than that. So, for a couple of years, we may not have very large pre-sales growth or that, but we are comfortable with that because we are seeing margin expansion and ROE is now, as we had guided earlier, we are looking to get to at least 15% ROE. And we can see 15% ROE sustaining going forward and with an increasing capital base because we don't intend to dividend out most, you know, significant amounts of capital. Dividends will remain the way we are growing a little bit. So I think the company's focus would be on maintaining that ROE trajectory doesn't fall below 15 and sustains above 15 year-on-year every year with a little bit of fluctuation here or there in the pre-sales or top-line and stuff like that. Some pounding of the net worth happens over a long period of time. I think that's the intent. So, I just thought I'll put that out there. That said, I think senior living, as I articulated, we expect to see strong momentum in senior living sales going forward.

Sure, that was informative. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your touchtone telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Rohit from iThought PMS. Please go ahead.

Yeah, hi, good afternoon. I'm sorry, I just joined when you were answering the question, Varun. So, I'm sorry if I missed it. So, when you were giving the update on the July month, that was for pre-sales. Is that correct? Yes, that is. So, then just following on from there. So, this year, you are confident of holding on to that 2,500 crore kind of pre-sales? For FY27, is that correct? Because I think you said there could be a dip in the near term, so I'm, I'm, and you, I think 2200 is what we are.

Sorry, 2200.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, 2200. 2200, we are confident of holding it this year.

Okay, okay.

At this moment of time, it looks good. We should exit H1 at about 1100, as I indicated, between 1050 and 1100, given that we hit 860 by July. So, 850.

Right, right, right. Okay, that's good to hear. And, sorry, just one, two small things. So one was on this Bangalore CP that we were looking at. Anything further on that? We haven't heard any updates, so just wanted to check. So there has been progress, Rohit.

On the CPs being resolved in Bangalore, I am hoping that we should have the final definitive documentation signed off sooner than later. So there has been progress there and we have actually put a team deployed two people there on team who are gearing up to make things ready to get the project launch going. So I am quite confident that Bangalore, South Bangalore should happen soon.

Okay, this is in South Bangla. Okay, okay, got it. I just want to check where you are in Bangla. I just came to know.

This is on Kanakpura Road.

Right, right, right. I think I just remembered the listing that you had posted when you had given this notification. So, sorry, one more question, Marun, was, so, I mean, if we were to look at the presentation where you give quarterly delivery, of course, it can change here and there a bit, but it seems that, I mean, you said 15% ROE, I think we were 15% ROE last year also. Or just about there. So I think based on what you are saying and what, I mean, given the margins can significantly increase from here, given the projects that we have for delivery, they must have very good margins going forward because of the realization growth and in general operating leverage. So, I mean, is it not fair that we will probably cross 20% ROE this year on a reported basis?

Yes, that is fair. So, when I say 15%, the goal of the company is to make 15% ROE the floor ROE in a long-term basis, and have years higher than that. So, the first was to get to 15%, but the objective, strategic objective is to make that the floor.

So, I think that is a very interesting point. Sure, no, that's a very well taken point given the fact that it's a very cyclical industry. If you are able to do it, then I think it will be a phenomenal achievement. I mean, I understand and I think we have spoken on this in the past few concours that you are not so much driven by the... Hello?

Yes, yes, sir. Can you, sir?

Hello?

Yes, sir. Please go ahead, Rohit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, sorry, I was saying that, I mean, I understand your point that you're not so much fixated by the pre-sales growth, at least in the near term. But even if you were to sort of... Let's say 1-2 years we are not going to blow because we don't have that much inventory.

Sir, he is a not right person, sir. Who is the partner?

There is one more connection here.

Yeah, I'm not sure if it is. Yeah, sorry. Hello?

Okay, Koresh, can someone check if there is any other connection on the line, please? Okay, sorry, Rohit, go ahead.

Yeah, so I was just saying that while I understand your point on not going for pre-sales immediately and you may not have the inventory, but how do we sort of, in the quest of trying to balance that 15% ROI aspiration and also grow, because ultimately that is what all of us also want as a company. So, yeah, how do we balance that? I'm not saying that we should, I mean, of course, we don't have land, we'll probably get land in the next one, two years, and subsequently launch, but just to understand from your perspective, let's say three, four years out, how do we sort of ready ourselves for the, to sort of grow from this 2200, 2300 pre-sales that we will sort of be at? Given the inventory position, how do we sort of go from that level to the next level whenever that happens? Let's say, I think, four years. So, any thoughts on that, yeah?

So, two things. If our capital base is not reducing, if you're not divitating out our capital or doing buybacks, which we don't intend to do, and we are looking to increase our capital base, There is no way ROEs can sustain without earnings growth, right? That's sheer mathematics. For ROE to sustain, we will have to have a long-term earnings growth. So, from a long-term perspective, we do want to get to, let's say, in the medium term, maybe 3,000-4,000 crores of pre-sales, we'll need to hit. All I was saying was, momentarily, for some... Quarters of challenge we could go through if that sustained momentum will take to get there. And I think the strategy of the company is, okay, let's invest more and more in senior living because we see that as a structural business. So the change is, and second, less cyclical because it's a structural change because of the change in the demographics. And it's less cyclical because it's less competitive with less. Less supply on the table as a zone and we have a sort of a significant advantage of being a pioneer there and having our sort of brand placed in everything. So the long term. So, earnings growth and also pre-sales growth is going to be driven by how senior living does. And right now, it's a small base, but as we increase the senior living piece and the pie, and when that increases, when it becomes a larger part of the business, it will just keep driving the growth of the business is where we are coming from. So, let's say a 29-30 financial year target is actually to look at 1,500 crores of pre-sales from senior living itself. And once that has kicked in, I think senior living and then pre-sales growth will happen. So we are looking at couple, you know, couple of quarters of maybe not as much top line growth. And through those quarters, I think though, we will continue to have earnings reported. Earnings are doing well. We will continue to have reported ROEs doing well. We will continue to generate positive cash. And deploy into senior living. So we have already deployed into five projects for right now 51 lakhs square foot odd, which we have in the future five, the Bangalore one coming up. We are in active discussions for a few more. I think maybe get to a first place would be to get to about 10,000 crores of GDV and senior living. Once we have that, I think then we can see just senior living driving the momentum of the company going forward. I think that's the basic key. And I think we will need to get to 3-4,000 crores of GDV pre-sales, probably closer to 4,000 in the medium term to be able to sustain those ROEs. And instead of just saying that, instead of a straight line path that there is, there may be a little bit of a dip. For a couple of years, and we can live with that and pick that up and get that. I think that's the basic thing.

Fair enough. All the very best. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chetan Thakkar from M3 Investments Private Limited. Please go ahead. Sir, just a question on the ROE.

I think earlier we were highlighting a 20% plus ROE, and today you've commented that long run it remains 15%. So what has changed between those two assumptions?

Uh, maybe I'm wrong, but whatever I remember, we have been talking about getting to 15% for the longest time and we hit 15% last year in reported earnings. I, I would maybe I'll go back and check the transcripts if I've said otherwise. But that said, as was on the. Current call, previous question, I think this year we will hit 20% ROE and we should hit 20% ROE for a few more years given the plan that we have in place. I think that is something that we can do. But, as I said, 15% ROE has been the long-term goal. That's the minimum rate that the capital sort of compound at going forward. That's been the intent at 15.

So, structurally, how should we look at the ROEs and we build it up from a project to the ROE perspective? So, how does the project margin change for you more longer than not just for a year or two? But how does the project margin change for you, which gets you to 50?

I think if we are able to achieve about a 30% gross margin, Endless.

Hello, sir. Your voice is not audible. Hello, Varun, sir.

Hi. No, sir.

It's muffled, sir.

Okay. Avikashi, why don't you take this up? This is better. This is better. If you want to continue, or else I'll do it. I'll just continue. So, we generally target about a 30% loss profit margin at the project level. About 18% PBT margin, about a 12% SG&A and 18% PBT margin and 13.5% if you're able to sustain that whenever, whichever you're up, I think overall generally our ROEs should translate into the teams. And if we are able to improve the margin profile further from here, then that takes us about 20. That's the general sort of view for me.

And levers to improve the margin, would it be more pricing power given the brand and given how we are placed in the senior citizen market? That would be one key lever or are there any other levers as well there?

So, therefore, pricing power is definitely the key lever. To that, enjoy pricing power in senior living. And what we are also intending to do in senior living is increase our product profile into a little bit more higher end segment. So if you see, our pricing has been increasing on a ticket size basis. Also, we are. Going up to more premiumized products, as Vikasji had mentioned in his opening, premiumization remains a thing. So as we more premiumize our products and enter higher sort of category of products, there also vision should improve.

And if I may just add to that, Savaranji, I think the other factor is the operating leverage fully playing out in the long run. Because if you are talking about the senior living, which is relatively more resilient towards the cyclical fluctuations, if that attains a critical mass, something like 1,500 crores of people that you talked about, the kind of operating leverage which will flow through will also give a sustained kind of impact on the margins in the long run, and hence the ROIs as well.

Understood, sir. Thank you, sir. That's helpful. All the best.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ankit Shah from White Equity Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.

Thank you for taking my question. Sir, apart from Bangalore, any other business development near closure, particularly in Jaipur, Gurgaon, if you can share something? We are there.

Sorry to interrupt. Sir, your voice is not audible. No, sir, we are not able to hear you. Hello. Yes, sir, please continue. The line has gone disconnected.

He's there, he's there. Just give him a moment. Just give him a moment.

Okay.

Sure.

On the business development front, we have active conversations going on in Jamshitpur, something in Chennai, something in Bombay Puna, in MCR. I think we should get something done, a small thing in Jamshirpur, hopefully sooner than later, and outside of that in Bangalore, things are in advanced stages of discussion, but we are still in discussions. I don't think we will have any announcements in the coming quarter, but hopefully in the third quarter of this year, we should announce no transactions as well.

Okay. That's it, Ramadar. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Banerjee, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. So, I have a few questions on the side of the revenue quality. So, my first question is, like, what's the underlying run rate for bookings? Is Q1-FI27's 358 role closer to steady state or is a big launch due later in FI27 to normalize the number?

So Aditya, one thing, so numbers in the deliveries are not driven by launches. So when you're talking about quarters, that's depending on handing over and that's driven on OC. For this year, I think we give a delivery schedule and a revenue schedule that's in flight. Are you talking about pre-sales? Are you talking about pre-sales when you said 50 crores for the quarter or are you talking about revenue in the financial schedule?

Where is the financial state?

You're talking about the financial state. You're talking about the reported revenue, right?

Yeah, yeah, yes.

Sorry, so yeah, so I reported revenues in slide 15 of the deck. We have given an indication of how much we expect to report this year, and this year is expected around about 2,000 crores of revenue is expected this year, so definitely Q1 as that number was not at all normal. I would also say quarterly revenues for a real estate company and quarterly profits are not so valuable because our revenues keep fluctuating depending on delivery. So two projects, Ashana Anboor Phase 3 and Ashana Amara Phase 1, totaled over 532 crores of revenue. We got those OC occupancy certificates in the middle of July. So they are coming in July, August, September. We gave that update. If that occupancy certificate had come in on, let's say, 25th of June, we would have been able to recognize that entire revenue in June itself. But since it came in on 15th of July, everything is coming in the second quarter. Now that kind of fluctuation, I don't have any ability to control in our business and that will remain. So, Q1 was reflective, and I would say Q2 may not be reflective as well. We should look at revenues and reported profits on a year-on-year basis. Therefore, in our slide deck, we have given a sense of what kind of annual revenue should we expect. And what we're trying to do is make sure those get met out in the year, that things don't slip from one year to the other. And I think that's the endeavor that the company has.

Okay, okay, got it, got it. So, man, another question is that, according to my understanding, that units sold sales from 407 to 234 year-over-year, even as the ticket sizes rose. Is this deliberate or a genuine volume slowdown?

Again, difficult to say it's not deliberate, but also... As I indicated earlier, we have some lesser inventory in some markets. So that had an impact. So the launch happened in July. So I clarified earlier by 31st July, our overall pre-sales for the year was 859 crores. So, and we have guided for about 2200 crores this year, and I think we are on track to meet that guidance as of now. As I said, H1 used to receive probably 1500-1100 crores of pre-sales. So, things are going alright.

Okay, okay. Sir, and on the portfolio mix side, the ongoing portfolio mix has shifted to elite and premium homes at 36% versus senior living at just 23%. Like given Asiana's brand is built on senior living leadership, is this a deliberate strategic pivot toward higher ticket premium homes?

No, actually, if you look at our company, even though we were known for senior living, senior living was probably 10% of our business five years ago. Okay. Let's say FY22 or 23 would have been 10% of our business, which has become 23. If you look at delivery pivot, I would again on the deck, I would urge you to go to slide number, I think. Slide number 19, which is our land available for future development. And if you see the entire 5 million square foot is senior living. Bangalore, which I just spoke about on the call, which will get added to this land available for future development hopefully soon, is also senior living. So a large part of the pivot is happening towards senior living. Even in a flight taking of future projects, which is phases of existing developments, about 40-45% of that is also senior living. So this mix will change. Decisively in favor of senior living in the next two to three years.

Okay. Okay, sir. And I have this last question that the kid-centric homes is concentrated almost entirely in Gurugam. So how are you thinking about the geographic concentration risk there, like, and versus diversifying to other cities?

So, we have done kid-centric homes in Jaipur as well and Bhavadi as well. Then we have done Gurgaon. Kid-centric homes as a concept, we are still sort of... Fine teaming the recipe, if that's the way to put it, where we are learning how to differentiate the concept better as we go along. Like, the senior living concept, we have differentiated, we have understood the model, we are in this zone of scaling it up. Senior living, our first two really, really differentiated kids-centric homes projects are in Gurgaon. One in Amara, we have just delivered phase one, ROHOM we have just launched. I think it will take us a few more years, I would say, two, three more years to sort of figure out kids-centric homes better. And once we have figured it out better, I think we will take the path of really scaling that up and taking it to more and more cities as we go forward.

Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your touchtone telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Khursi Solanki, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Hello, I'm available.

Yes.

Hi, Mr. Yes, sir. I wanted to ask about the VADGA of the acquisition. Can you walk us through the playback assumptions on the 1,800 growth VADGA project? What type of effort and absorption phase are you underwriting currently?

I couldn't understand you fully, Khushi. The sound is a little muffled. Can you repeat that, please, for us?

Hello, am I audible now?

Yes, you are.

Yeah.

Sorry to interrupt, Kushi, your voice is not audible.

Can you? Hello.

Please say yes or no if I understood the question correctly. You said the new Vardgaon parcel that we have taken up, you were asking what are our assumptions to be able to do 1800 crores of revenue and what kind of absorption, annual absorption do we expect in that project. Is my understanding correct?

Yes, yes, right. Right, sir.

Okay, so it's a 20 lakh square foot project, so we are estimating about 9 to 10,000 rupees of revenue per square foot on saleable area. So that translates into about 1,800 to 2,000 crores, so that is our estimated at underwriting. And we expect to sell about 2 lakh square foot a year, so that takes about a 10 year. Development timeframe. So it's a little longer development timeframe, but we hope to enjoy good margins here. So that should take care of overall returns from that perspective. And if things go better than expected, then I would say we could do probably 3,000,000 square foot a year and wrap up the project in about 7,000,000 years.

Okay, got it. And another thing, why is the NCP funding for this land process specifically? While internal cash accruals given are 785 crore net cash positioning at FY26.

So the NCD financing was actually done by the landlords itself. The landlords wanted to have a partial revenue share position in the project. They didn't want to sell it fully. But they were keeping a very minority stake overall. So, therefore... In our view, we wanted to take the parcel of the full land. We didn't want to do a part JDA. So we said we'll do a full acquisition and we'll issue you debentures to basically mimic that. So they basically, they wanted to keep a 25% equity. So they contributed 25% of the purchase value back to the debentures. And we agreed on a 6% revenue share for the remaining, so they're getting 6% revenue share, which is actually to structure the transaction.

Okay. And what is the expected launch time for this?

About 18 months. So, about, yeah, so, let's say it's H2 of Nets Financial. How is that we expect to launch this?

Okay, sir. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Himanshu from Stairport. Please go ahead.

A small query. See, on the five, six projects, what we are trying to acquire, what type of KPIX we are expecting? And in FY27, or let's say FY27, 28 on the projects which are very near to...

Yeah, so we have a total budget of deploying about 800 crores in this financial year, including about 180 that got deployed in the last quarter. So we are looking to deploy 800 for the year total.

And this includes all the deals we are talking right now, or there can be something which will...

Yeah, it includes the deal we have done in the last quarter and all the deals that we are in active conversations with and serious conversations with.

And one more thing, in some of the projects historically, IFC also used to come, okay, or we had an... So, those agreements with IFC only for residential means, can they also be partnered in senior living or they will be always on the other side and those agreements still continue or it is over?

So, they are partnered in senior living, they are actually a partner in Ashana Vajsalia, there they have provided capital there as well. The first platform we had fully exhausted. In the second platform, we were only able to deploy 100 odd crores into our home, but the platform timeline has been over. We have not been able to deploy the rest. Just because of some, by the time we timed some of the projects and what their criteria for investment in these other cities outside of Gurgaon were, we were not able to meet on the ticket sizes. So they have an upper cap of ticket size that they can finance over a unit. And in Gurgaon, we had some relaxations in place. But like in Chennai, Aranya, or in Tatvam, in Panvel, we were not, which were there where they could have deployed, we were not able to meet their ticket size requirements. So, unfortunately, because of that, we were not able to go through.

Okay. Now, there are no more...

There is no active agreement with them. We are discussing with them how we can work together in the future. It's a partnership I think both of us have enjoyed. We enjoy IFC's capital that IFC brings to the table. I think it works really well for an organization like us, and I think they have also enjoyed good returns on the project that we have been able to do. So, we are actively discussing if we can do further capital development.

Okay, thank you from my side.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thank you. So, just two questions. First, you said that you are trying to make the business less cyclical. So just wanted to have a broad understanding that what could be the low and high of pre-sales year on year. Just a broad understanding, if you could. And second is, in case of multiple projects, how does operating leverage work? I got a sense that if it's a big project, then it will work, but you are across so many geographies. How would operating leverage work? That's all.

Nikhil, so, two things, one, I don't know what the high and

the low of a cycle would be, I think at some point in time, couple of years back, we were looking at this number, and the idea was to look at the higher top and higher bottom, what we typically call in case of a capital market cycle as well. But then, that was a while ago, we looked at a number of something like 10 lakhs square foot. That is the minimum that we need to kind of break even. But then after that, our product portfolio has changed. The component of senior living has been increasing. So I think we need to take a fresh look as to what is the kind of number that we look at the minimum number in any kind of cycle and the maximum number we can go to.

So, Mikkel, I... The intent has become that how do we get to a place where we can make 15% ROEs a floor in the organization. I think at first it was an aspiration to get there. We got there on an economic basis two, three years ago. We on a reported basis last year. I think what we are looking to do is create a floor in the business of 15% return on equity. And therefore, we are trying to get more structural products in the portfolio, where we think senior living has got structural tailwinds behind it, as India's demographics change, and I would say also the first real private sector, children of liberalization start retiring, economic liberalization of 91. And I think that's what we are playing at. I would be very hard to give a bottom or a top. And in terms of operating leverage, I think operating leverage plays out in two ways. One, at the company level. I think Vikasji, when he was talking about operating leverage, he was talking about at the company level. There are a lot of fixed costs at the company level. The second way it also plays out is at the location level. If you see for any developer, they have a lot of location strength, location, brand. So for us also, as we do more products in a location, our marketing costs fall. So let's say Chennai, it seems to be around 8% in Ashina Shubham, and we are now down to about 4%. 4-5% of sales and marketing costs. So as we get more steadier in our location, those things also come down. And then larger projects also help where, you know, approvals are one time, designing is one time. As the phases get delivered later, we should increase, capture some value that we have created in the product through increasing prices. So there are three sort of levers, different levers playing out at different points of time. That's what's happening.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your touchstone telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your touchstone telephone. The next question is from the line of Varun Yadav, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Hello.

Yeah, Varun.

Asad, I knew that the Unmall and your Unmall, Page 3, and our Page 1, approximately net margins, how much is it?

Not sure, but they are not individual margins. But low margin hai donoh. Unmol phase 3 be lower margin hai. Amara phase 1 be relatively lower margin hai because Amara as a product, project has very good margins, but they are phase 3 onwards margins are substantially better than Amara. It would be hard to comment. Net margin, I don't know how to define a project level net margin, but gross profit margin blended between Anwole and Amara should be in the mid-20s. That is pre-selling cost and general administrative, we should be in the mid-20s. I don't think we are in the 30-11 also that we expect to get blended across both those projects. We should be in the mid-20s.

Awesome, second question.

Sorry, Unmol 3, what we can tell you is that our margin has gradually improved over phases in Q1 compared to Q2 to Q3. The pricing is better and improved, but still there are a phase 1, 2, 3. Phase 1, 2, 3, I am talking about Unmol. So in phase 3, the margin was better than the first quarter phases, but still overall lower.

Yes. In what way? In what way?

But the second value is that our phase 1 is ready, so our visits are actually added, our clubhouse is ready to show, landscape is ready to show, our learning house is ready to show. So we are only using the plan, model, but we are using the reality. The second thing is that our end users are more than because in the market, we have not allowed to do a resale without registration or without possession, so in the beginning, the investors who are selling in the resale, they are not allowed to do a resale. Well, resale stock pay as a proportion of phase 1 should be not more than 20%, I would say, as compared to where, you know, 80-90% of bourgeois sales by other developers used to be traded later. So, I don't have much pressure on that.

Okay, thanks, sir.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and 1 on your touchstone telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I'm going to like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Thank you all for participating in this earnings conference call. We remain focused on family handovers in FI 27 and on building long-term value through disciplined execution and customer-centered development. If you have any further questions or would like to know more about the company, please feel free to reach out to us directly. Or you can alternatively reach out to our Investor Relations managers at Valorum Advisors. The investor presentation and relevant materials are available on our website and we will be happy to provide any further clarifications you may need. Wishing you all good help and a productive year ahead. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of Aryan Capital Market, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.