Container Corporation of India Limited (CONCOR) Q4 2026 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Container Corporation of India Limited Q4 FY26 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Dam Capital Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the lesson-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on a touchstone phone.

Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now have the conference over to Mr. Kunal Shah from Dam Capital Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Yeah, good afternoon. Welcome to the 4Q F-56 earnings call of Cantina Corporation of India. We have the management being represented by Mr. Sanjay Saro, the Chairman and Managing Director. I'd like to hand out the call to Sanjay, sir, for his opening remarks, who is to exit and take up the Q&A. Over to you, sir. Thank you.

Good morning to all. I am accompanied by Mr. Ajit Kumar Panda, Director, Projects and Services, Mr. Vijay Kumar Singh, Director, International Marketing and Operations, Mr. Vivek Gupta, Director, Finance and CFO, and Mr. Harish Chandra, Principal Executive Director, Finance and the Company Secretary of our company. I will just make the opening remarks, and then I will open for question-answer session. I am glad to announce that Board of Directors have approved the dividend of rupees 1 per share of par value of rupees 5, that is interim dividend for quarter 4. This makes the total dividend of rupees 8.6 per share, which is 172% of the par value of share. This is in yesterday's Board of Directors meeting, it was approved. I would like to outline the challenges being faced by international trade in FY25-206. Most of you are quite well aware of that. There are a lot of geopolitical uncertainties, which is due to the international conflicts and trade tensions, and this has severely disrupted the global supply chains and increased the trade risks. There are trade restrictions. And tariffs by the United States, up to 50% were imposed during the year, and this has severely affected the volumes, especially in textiles and marine products. And then there was a global economic slowdown in U.S., Europe, and parts of Asia. There are currency fluctuations also, exchange rate instability is there. All these factors are impacting the exempt rate. India's international trade, that is, merchandise trade, was as under for the FY. Exports were total 441.8 billion U.S. dollars, which was a growth of 0.9 percent over previous financial year. Imports were $774.9 billion, which was a growth of 7.45% over the previous year. Despite these challenges, our company, Container Corporation, achieved ever-highest throughput of 5.58 million TUs in FY26, and which was a growth of 9.6 percent, in which extreme growth was 8 percent, and domestic growth was 14.6 percent. Our rare freight margin increased from 25.65 percent to 27.16 percent. It is quite a healthy rate margin. It is a growth of 1.51%. Our overall operating margin increased from 29.99% to... It's a growth of almost 1%. Our operating income increased by 2.2%. Our pet suffered a decrease of 4.5%. The main reasons are the less demand in domestic. Thank you. The reason is the shortage of tank containers, because the ecosystem of tank containers is a new product. In our country, that ecosystem was not there. Due to that, in last FY, we could not get a good supply of tank containers. But now the ecosystem is quite well developed. We have two, three good vendors, and we have a fleet of 500 tank containers with us right now. And every month, we are adding 200 tank containers to this fleet. Yesterday, I'm glad to inform you, Board of Directors, Pardal, approved the procurement of 2,000 more tank containers, apart from 1,000 tank containers approved earlier. So, in this FY, we will have a very good availability of tank containers, which will give us good loading of bulk cement in domestic. Apart from that, the reason for decline in PET was the challenges faced by international CRIT, as I already highlighted. The growth in double stack rates was 1.5% from 6302 double stack to 6396 double stack rates in this financial year. And there is a very big development taking place that already most of you may be knowing. DFC connectivity to JNPT will be commissioned by 1st June 2026. So we are quite ready. And last week, I had a meeting with top management of DFC Corporation, and they are quite, you know, optimistic that this, from 1st June, they will be able to run double-stack trains to JNPT. So we will be getting very good business. From 1st June, we will be running double-stack trains from NCR to JNPT. Thank you. Very big boost as a result of this connectivity. Then during the financial year, Concord signed MOU for Bharat Container Shipping Line in which we have a 30% stake. We are one of the majority partners of Bharat Container Shipping Line. Prime Minister, this shipping line will be... CONCOR containers are now going to Middle East. Of course, because of the conflict, this movement has stopped. Otherwise, our containers, almost 700 containers have gone to Middle East under our own document that we have issued the bill of lading for these containers. We are quite bullish on infrastructure additions. We have commissioned 43 high-speed rates in this financial year, taking total to 423, and we have procured 4,729 new containers, taking our total fleet size to 57,746 containers of our own. And due to the excellent operation planning, we reduced the empty running of REX also, and in Exim by 27%, and in domestic around 4%, overall 10.5% reduction in empty running of REX. This has positively contributed to our bottom line. So, the company is quite... We are conscious about the ESG norms. We have taken a lot of green logistics initiatives. We have 230 LNG trucks of our own. We have five electric RSTs and two electric vehicles, which we are using for trial basis. And we are quite seeing good results, and we will be procuring more of them. And CAPEX achieved in last financial year was one of the highest, which is 1085.20 crores. In this financial year, yesterday, Board of Directors have a group in CapEx budget of Rs. 945 crores. We may be increasing the budget during the mid-year review, and because we need a lot of CapEx for infrastructure additions. Now, I will briefly summarize the business scenario. In Exim, we crossed Rs. 6,000 crores, that is Rs. 60 billion. The company's history, which is all-time high. Exim has performed exceedingly well. We achieved 4.21 million to use handling. This will be a big, you know, driver for growth for Exim in the coming years. In the last financial year, we achieved an export growth of total 3%, in which auto parts achieved a growth of 17%, buffalo meat 19%, aluminum ingots 22%, besides other commodities. Imports, we achieved a growth of 5.8%, in which auto parts contributed 38%, solar panel parts 92%, and polymer products 23%. We also unveiled a liberalized DPD and capital policy, which was very well received by trade, and we saw 38% increase in our DPD volumes, which is now further going to grow in this financial year also. In collaboration with the leading shipping line MERS, we launched the Oshadhi Express from our Hyderabad ICD, Sanat Nagar, to JNPT, and it is also very well received. All these drugs are normally, usually they go to Western countries, USA and Europe, primarily USA. So this is also a very good product that has been launched by us from Hyderabad, and we are getting good patronization. Our refer exports also saw a very good growth of 17%. It's a healthy growth, and in this financial year also, there is a good demand in refer volumes. At almost all the ports, we recorded growth in imports. Like in JNPT, there was 12% growth, Mundra, 8.8%, Chennai, 14%, and WISAC, 28% growth in our imports. Now I will come to domestic. Our product that we launched, the bulk of cement transportation in tank containers, is very well received by trade. We are getting a lot of demand, and now the supply of tank containers is also coming. So we are quite well positioned in this financial year to capitalize on this new stream, which we are going to end. Normally, in domestic, we are doing 14 to 15 million tons of loading, and I am quite positive that in this financial year itself, we will be able to do at least 1 million tons of bulk cement in time containers in domestic. Besides that, our trials for bulk loading of food grains in containers along with liners has been successful, and very soon we are going to start that also. We are running a short transit time train from Tughlaqabad, Delhi, to... Shalimar Kelkata, which has also contributed to... Thank you. We'll be informing all of you in due course of time. We are also in talks with Gas Authority Gail and Petronet, and we are expecting very good volumes from them. That also will inform you once we receive the orders. Apart from that, Gunny Bales traffic, which suffered quite badly in last financial year, is likely to be revived in this financial year. There are quite firm indications for that, which will positively contribute to our domestic volume. Now, going forward, as I told you, the factors which will contribute to our business, I would like to summarize them. First is WDFC commissioning and assured transit trains. Second is double stacks at our locations in Salavas and Charodi. Salavas is near Jodhpur, Charodi is near Ahmedabad, and Charodi will be on DFC. So these new terminals will come. Of course, a double stack is there, but we don't have a facility of double stack. So we hope to ramp up good volumes at Charodi also. And besides that, we have commissioned new terminals like Mandalgarh, Kada Kola, near Mysuru, Jajpur, and Paradeep, which will also bring new traffic. In Nepal traffic, that is going at present to Birganch, we have opened another point at Raksol where we are handling the containers. Crane handling is allowed by Indian railways, so Birganch and Raksol, two points. Apart from that, Biratnagar, very soon we will be starting. So, Nepal traffic also, there will be good growth in this financial year. And lastly, we are quite, you know, positive for shipping business. We are already moving, we were already moving to Middle East before the conflict, and now Far East also we have started moving. And apart from that, we are a major component of Bhalak container shipping line, as I already informed. This will be also a big driver in the coming years. I would like to now give the guidance for this financial year 27. Exim, I would like to give guidance of 8 percent. Domestic, I would like to give guidance of 15 percent. Overall, it will be 9.5 percent. Of course, I am a bit conservative because of the various geopolitical factors which are right now present. And in the mid-year, we will review our performance and various environment around us, and we will go for a revision if required for this guidance. But right now, it is exam 8%, domestic 15%. Thank you very much, sir.

We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Mukesh Saraf from Aventus Park. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning, and thank you for the opportunity. My first question is regarding the TFC connectivity to JNPT starting next week itself. If you could give some sense on the size of the opportunity here, say either road moving to rail or fishing lines calling at JNPT and not, say, at Mundra because of this rail connectivity now. This will kind of give us some sense on what kind of volumes we can kind of ship across JNPT to NCR.

At present, the real coefficient at JNPT is, for the last financial year, it was 15.12%. And with this connectivity, overnight it will not increase. But in this FY, I am sure from 15, at least it will go to 18 to 19%. So, there are quite good indications and we will be actually running timetable, a short transit train from NCR to JNPT. And secondly, we will be tinkering with our tariff also because our company believes that without sacrificing margins, if we incur some savings, we will share those savings with our customers, part of the savings. So, because in double stack, we have to pay less all the charges to railways. We will be having some savings on 40-fit containers. So we will be coming out with a very competitive tariff. That will be light cargo, which is at present moving by road. So transit time will reduce, and our tariff will also add par or very competitive with road. So we are quite, you know, I cannot give you, but I am very sure that this shift will be there, and in another three years' time, rail coefficient will increase from 15 to at least. As far as the movement of Carbo from Mundra to JNPT and all is concerned, at the moment, I would not like to comment on that. Let us see how the trade takes it. And shipping lines and trade, they will see the service levels and what advantage they will get, what other dynamics they have, and they will take a decision. At present, we have the service at Mundra also. We have the service at JNPT also. And we have signed, in fact, an agreement with PSA at JNPT. So from our side, we are able to give service to customers from both the ports. They have to decide that where do they want to bring the cargo.

Got it, got it. That's quite clear, sir. Thank you. And secondly, on the tariffs you had mentioned, aren't we? I mean, what we are reading is that road tariffs is going up with diesel, et cetera, kind of moving up. Are you starting to already see some kind of a shift from road to rail because road freight rates are going up while, I guess, even railways has been quite aggressive on the rail side of it? If you could talk a little more on the economics between road and railways.

See, rail is a green mode of transport, and it is an environment-friendly mode of transport. So I am a great advocate for rail transportation. We should have long-distance transportation by rail. So definitely efforts should be to move more and more cargo by rail. So whatever sectors are contributing to it, but the rail transportation at the end of the day should increase. And for your information, at JNPT, there was a very big congestion some few days back due to various reasons you may be reading. And CONPAR came forward. I also spoke to chairman and the top management of JNPT. So we evacuated a lot of containers from JNPT to our facility at Dornagiri. And all this evacuation was done through rail only. We deployed special rates. And transportation was done between JNPT and our terminal. So rail definitely helped us a lot in easing the congestion. And now JNPT is having a huge import now. So it's dealing with a lot of volumes. So definitely rail is the preferred mode of transport.

And just one last question from my side. You had mentioned about assured transit time services. Say, in F26, could you give us some sense on what percentage of your services are running on assured transit time, and what could this go up to, say, in the next year?

See, percentage-wise, if you compare from our overall volume, it is a negligible percentage. But I should say that it's a welcome beginning by Indian railways, which is welcomed by the trade. So if I go for percentage, it is a very meager percentage. But more and more reforms in the form of various other things and assured transits, more services are being announced by Indian railways because they are...

Thank you so much.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Access Capital. Please go ahead.

Thanks for the opportunity. So if you can elaborate on your thoughts around the West Asia crisis, which is still ongoing, and we are almost two months into the June quarter, what has been the disruption in terms of volumes for Exim and domestic, if you could give us a flavor, and, you know, very difficult to give an outlook here, but Given you have left us with the 8% growth guidance on Exim and 15% for domestic, you know, what kind of slow start do you expect in the first half of the fiscal? That is my first question.

As far as the West Asia crisis is concerned, our volumes were impacted in the month of March, due to which last FYI also our results were, we were expecting more, at least we could not perform that much. And April was also not very good. But from the month of May, we are again seeing an upsurge in our volumes. Which is a good indication. So probably the other markets like US and Europe and Far East, they are now contributing a lot. And the government of India has signed various FTAs with various countries. That is also positively impacting the business. We are getting good import volumes at all the gate reports. And FTAs have a very important role to play in that. I am quite sure that whatever guidance I have given, taking all these factors into consideration, we have worked out and now we are giving this guidance. So, we are quite positive to achieve this guidance.

Sure. My second question is on the domestic segment revenue growth decline of 4% in the March quarter and the domestic EBIT margin, segment EBIT margin was just 0.2%. If you could help us quantify the impact that the West Asia crisis in March particularly had for the domestic business and what really led to such a steep sort of impact in the domestic segment, that will be useful.

We have a lot of disturbance in our neighboring country. Because of that, we could not get the supply of jute. And, you know, this gunny bales were the major domestic loading commodity in eastern India. And because of the no supply of jute or left supply of jute, the gunny bales traffic was very severely affected. This affected our top line in domestic as well as bottom line. Because traditionally, cargo... Go to Eastern India, and in return direction, gunny bales were stuffed in the containers. But because there were no gunny bales, so these containers were coming empty. So bottom line was very badly affected. The second reason was the tiles industry. Almost all the time factories are closed because there is no supply of gas. We will also gain traction. So that is why I am giving a guidance of 15% domestic.

So the gunny bag issue and the Morbi volumes, are they back to 50% of normal or even below that right now?

Right now they are below that, but there are indications that very quickly they will be increasing.

Okay. Thank you and wish you all the best.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aditya Mongia from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.

Thank you for the opportunity. I had a couple of questions from my side. First one, you're on JNPT. Sir, you talked about an 18 to 19% year-end number and eventually 30% model coefficient number. Could you give us a sense of what are the low-hanging fruits over here, which can make 18 to 19% happen in the hurry, and then what needs to happen for 30% model coefficient to happen? And why I'm also asking this question is my sense was that the entire movement that goes from the road from JLPT to the northern part of the country was 10 odd percent. So just trying to get a sense of which other groups that you're exploring when you're thinking to 30% model coefficient.

See, this, you know, changeover from road to rail will not happen overnight. Once these services start, it will take some time to stabilize. Like right now, I told the rail coefficient in last financial year at JNPT was 15 percent, 1.5. So, I am expecting that in FY27, this will reach around 19 percent, 1.9 percent. Maybe it may reach 20, 21 percent also, and in JNPT is not serving only North India. Lot of traffic is going to Hyderabad area, to Nagpur, that is central area, central India, and then to Bangalore also, South India. So all these places are also served by JNPT. And all these places are not connected on Western DFC. So Western DFC is connecting North India, that is NCR, and is passing through Bujarat. So, Nagpur, Hyderabad, and Bangalore, they continue to be non-DFC locations for GNPT. So, in that all locations also, we are getting a good business. They will continue to move a non-DFC. We cannot run double-stack trains to JNPT because it is not on DFC. But for NCR area and Gujarat, we will be able to run double-stack.

So, just to clarify, what you're saying is that, or maybe just a clarification over here, when you say the non-DFC routes, Hyderabad, NASCAR, so on and so forth, will there be any which way it's impacted by the commissioning of Western DFC? What are the reasons why they would start coming on double stack to JNPT versus them not doing it today?

No, these locations like Nagpur, Hyderabad, Bangalore will not be impacted with commissioning of Western DFC because double-stack trains cannot be run from these locations.

Yeah, so why push the shift from rail from road over time?

So for these locations also, we are running services and the shift from road to rail is there, but it is gradual shift and it's not that quantum shift, I should say. That will happen when DFC is commissioned between NCR and JNPT. But these locations also, there is a gradual shift from road to rail, but not that quick.

Sure. Just a second question from my side. I was intrigued by you suggesting that Indian railways are on the angle of talking about or announcing more reforms. Could you give us a sense of... Which direction are these reforms focused on? As in one part, it's obviously assured traffic and assured rates, but what beyond that could be the focus area is going to be the same?

I cannot disclose the details of reforms to you, but in logistics, I can give you a hint, because in logistics, there are only two things that a customer wants. First is the transit time, and second thing is economically. Cost should be, you know, reasonable. So, Railways is working on both these issues. That much only I can tell you right now.

Thank you, sir, for those responses. I'll get back into the call.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Achal Lohadi from Nuama. Please go ahead.

Yeah, good morning, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible?

Yes, please.

Yes. Sir, first question, you know, you've talked about container, the shipping, the virus container investment. So if you could talk a little bit more on that in terms of what are the plans here, what kind of capital allocation or capital investment would that entail from our end?

See, what capital we have to invest in that, it's a confidential information right now, and it's going to the cabinet. So I cannot disclose that information to you. I can only tell you that we have a 30% state in that, and it will be a… You know, a very big shipping line for our country, and our country, it's a pride for us that we will have a container shipping line. Till now, we don't have a container shipping line at all. With make in India getting traction in our country, and a lot of exports being generated, so it's high time that we should have a container shipping line where we should have our own ships, we should have our own containers, and ports have also been made stakeholders. So we should be a very active part of global supply chains. So this is a welcome move by the Government of India, and container cooperation with its strength in the hinterland, in inland logistics, and shipping cooperation of India. They are also having 30% state. They have a good experience in the shipping sector. So both these big companies have joined hands. Apart from that, there are three ports. JNPT, Chennai Port, and Tutikorin Port, they're also part, and Shastagarmala Development Fund, they're also part of this. All these, you know, relevant players, Government of India have decided that they will be part of our container shipping line. And as I told you already, as per the Amrit Kahl vision of Honorable Prime Minister, by 2047, this shipping line will be among the top 10 shipping lines of the world.

No problem, sir. The second question I had, you know, with respect to the margins. So, while you have talked about the volume growth guidance, and I presume you are talking about the handling volume or originating volume, sir?

I am talking about handling volumes.

Okay. So, given that volume guidance, what kind of, how do we look at the margins, you know, especially, I mean, if you could talk a little bit on that margin front at all overall or if possible even on segment level.

See, you people are very good in number function. We cannot match you. So, you can very easily do that. All I can tell you is we will maintain the EBITDA level between 24 to 25 percent as we have been doing till now. In fact, last financial year also, we had an EBITDA of 24.33% in FY26. FY25, it was 24.99%. So, there was hardly any drop in EBITDA percent, despite all these setbacks. So, in the coming years also, we will maintain EBITDA between 24 to 25%. We are quite clear on that.

Got it. Sir, just a quick clarification I wanted to check with. If in terms of the drop in the segment margin for domestic, if I look at the QOQ drop in terms of the segment EBIT, that is very, very sharp. Is there any one-off, anything we would call out? I also see at the same time there is significant jump in the other expenses. So we could call out if there are any one-offs here or any expenses which have gone up material.

As I told Ashur also that in domestic, actually, if you have to have good bottom line, then you should have minimum empty running of containers. You should have both sides loaded movement. Logistics is sustainable only if you have loaded movement from both sides. But because of the setback of not getting the Gani Bales traffic, we were forced to move empty containers from Eastern India to North India and Western India. Because we have a lot of business traffic moving from Western India and North India to Eastern India. Return direction, we were getting Gani Bales, which was loaded from Eastern India to these locations and Central India also. But now, because Gani Bales traffic stopped. We were forced to run empty containers out from eastern India back to these places for getting reloading. So, because of that empty running, it severely affected our profitability in domestic. And we were not able to build any circuits. Of course, we tried some triangular movements. But most of the cases, we had to take out empties from Eastern India, either to North India or to West India, sometimes to Central and South India also. So this affected the profitability of domestic in a very big way in Q4. Got it.

If you could help us with the originating volume, sir, for fourth quarter or full year, sir?

You want for fourth quarter or full year?

Ideally both, but if you could get any of that, that would be very important.

Because up to Q3 you may be having. So fourth quarter, orientating volume was, exam was 549273 TUs, and domestic 129065 TUs, total is 678338 TUs. Got it.

Thank you. I have more questions, but I'll fall back in the day. Thank you.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jainam Shah from Equius Capital. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thank you for your question. Just one thing over here, if we see our handling volume growth for this year was at around 9.6% total, whereas our originating growth was at around 4.5%. And if we see our revenue growth, it was near 2%. So, of course, our diversity has been increasing, which is leading to a lower realization. Our first one and last one is also increasing, which is, you can say, having a difference between originating and this, what you can say, handling volumes. And now we are guiding, let's say, around 9.5% growth for the handling volume for next year. How do you think it will convert into the originating growth and probably into the revenue growth? How do we see that two numbers panning out from the handling volume growth for the F527?

See, it is difficult to tell you the exact percentage, but if you are tracking container cooperation, you may be knowing that broadly for uniting is almost 65 or 70 percent of handling. That is a thumb rule. And as far as earning is concerned, it's a function of two things. NTKM in railways we call net 10 kilometers. It's a function of weight and distance. So, if originating is increasing by 4.47 percent, whereas earning is increasing by 2.2 percent, that means our lead has come down. So, if we move for less distance, then we get less revenue. So, it's a function of weight and distance.

So, on the empty running part that you have been highlighting on the domestic part, what I see over here is that for a domestic full year, I guess empty running has been down by around some 4 or 5%. For the quarter, the calculation that I have been doing, empty running has increased from 66 crore last year, 40 after 25, to around 73 crore in 40 after 26. That is increased of around, let's say, 7-8 crore rupees on the top line of around 750 crore that we have booked for the domestic segment. That is near 1% of the impact that has eventually been there in the empty running cost for the domestic part. Our margin used to be between, let's say, 5-8% of the average margin for the domestic segment. Now, we have reported 0.2%. Even if we add like 1% of these empty running costs, which has increased over last year, then the margin would have been like 1.2-1.5%. So, where is the gap between, let's say, 5-7% that we used to report versus, let's say, 1.5% even after removing the empty running cost of 73% that we would have reported in Pogay for 26%.

Now, the empty Q4 to Q4 has increased by 11% in domestic, for information, from 68.9 crores to 76.7 crores. So, that is 11.3% increase. And second thing is, the lead in domestic has also gone down from 1321 to 1309. So both these things have contributed to top line as well as bottom line. So as far as the year figure, for full financial year, domestic empty running has come down from 291.4 crores to 280.35 crores. That is a drop of 3.8%.

And of course, we have not given any long-term guidance, but we used to say that our handling would be reaching to, let's say, 10 million DEOs by maybe 29-30. How this recent crisis would have been impacted that timeline or maybe the volumes or, let's say, does this have any impact on our CAPEX for future use or will be building on the capacities for the future growth?

See, we are incurring expenditure on CAPEX because we want to be ready. Of course, there is a lot of demand. At present, sometimes we feel that when XM and Domestic are firing on all cylinders and a lot of demand is there, we are not able to meet the demand of our customers. And customers will not wait for us. So we should be future ready with our infrastructure. And we don't know when the things will turn, when the demand will increase. And of course, we have some forecasts. Procurement of rigs, procurement of containers. It cannot be done overnight. It will take some time. So we have to be future ready to meet the demand of our customers because we believe in giving them excellent service without sacrificing our margins. That has been the motto of our company. We work on that principle. That is why we go for capex of 1,000 crores. Every year. This year also 945 crore has been approved by BOD. Definitely mid-year review will be there. And I think we will be touching that figure only that we did in last financial year. So all these infrastructure additions are going to further bring in more volumes to us.

Thank you so much for your responses.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Priyanka from GM Financial. Please go ahead.

Thanks, sir, for the opportunity. So, my first question is that we have recently seen like significant increases in diesel prices. I mean, in the past one month. So, in that context, I guess truck freight rates should have also increased meaningfully. So, in that case, uh, are we seeing any movement back from road to rail? Uh, at least on the volumes that you may have seen in the March of, uh, at least in the months of, let's say, uh, month of May. So, that's the first question and if you can elaborate like, uh, uh, how do you see, uh, the rail model share going, uh, going ahead?

See, we are already in the month of May. All I can say is that definitely we are seeing good volumes in the month of May. March and April were not good for us. So I cannot give you any numbers right now because I don't have with me at present. So definitely it would have contributed to an increase in real share, but numbers I don't have with me right now.

So, ideally, the rail motor share should have increased, I mean, with this diesel price increases leading to truck freight rates. Would that be a right understanding?

See, it is very premature to say that, but definitely, whatever you are pointing out, it's correct. Definitely, it will be, more movement will be done with rail only. I fully agree with you.

That's just adding on to that. So, we said despite you meeting up with your exam volume guidance for the full year, what I observe is despite that the top line growth is something like two and a half percent. So, where is exactly the disconnect? I mean, ideally, one should expect that if you are growing somewhere, let's say, double digits, so ideally, the revenue growth should also be coming close to double digits. So, what exactly is the issue that we are taking on the revenue front?

Incidentally, in XM, we have not grown with double digits. Handling growth was 8%, coordinating growth was 5%. And there was a drop in lead also. As I explained earlier, the earning is a function of weight as well as lead. So in Exim, there was a drop of lead of 3 kilometers overall in the financial year. That is a big drop. So it contributed to that much not commensurate growth. But definitely in Exim, we have done very well. 6,000 crores we have crossed for the first time in our history. So, this is good growth, and we are expecting more growth in this financial year.

Sir, just squeezing one more question. So, you used to provide your market share at JNPT, Mundra, and Pitohar, and also the rail provisions, if you can do that for the quarter.

I can give you for the year. I don't have for the quarter.

Yes, yes, that's also fine.

JNPT rail coefficient was 15.12% and our share was 60%. Mundra, rail coefficient 24.6%. Our share is 35.4%. Pipawa, rail coefficient is 57.5%. Our share is 48.3%.

Okay, that's broadly it from my side.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vivek Satya from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.

Hello, am I audible? Yeah, just let the costs are sounding repetitive. I missed the initial part of the call. Could you please provide me with the handling volume and originating volume, and if you could repeat the market share and coefficient, which you've just repeated for the previous call?

See, handling we achieved for the financial year. You want full financial year?

Quarter financials breakdown in terms of exam and domestic work.

Because Q3 you may be having already, so I will tell you about Q4. Q4 handling volumes per exim was 1068283. 59819 Thank you.

Yeah. Also, if you could provide the originator.

449273, domestic 129065.

What is the market share point which you've just discussed?

Market share is JNPT, rail coefficient is 15.12%, market share 60%, mundra, rail coefficient 24.6%. Mark your share is 48.3%.

48.3.

Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the question queue, please restrict yourself to one question only. Should you have a follow-up question, please rejoin the queue. Next question is from the line of Aditya Mongia from Vortex Securities. Please go ahead.

So, I just wanted to kind of gauge from you as in from a costing perspective that dependencies on Indian railways, where do you think there is scope for any kind of rationalization from a concourse perspective for railways to do better?

Can you please repeat the question? I have not heard you properly.

I'm just saying, as in from the perspective of costing, and that's decided by Indian Railways, Thank you. There are a few dependencies over here. Where do you think that if the cost is rationalized, that the demand for the value of the product can go up?

Right now, if you see the point-to-point cost, rail cost is less than road cost. And the increase in total logistics cost is, because road is door-to-door, and rail we have to go for first mile, last mile. Normally, first mile, last mile is the component which increases the transportation if we do through rail. But rail point-to-point, still it is cheaper than road. So we have to minimize first mile, last mile. So we have to have more and more facilities, more and more terminals, which should be near the cargo center. So that first mile, last mile comes down and transportation is done through rail. And at present, the challenge being faced by trade is not the high cost that we have to incur on rail transportation. It is the transit time. Transit time is the challenge that trade is facing. So cost-wise, I don't think that... There is not much issue.

Understood, sir. I'll get back into it again. Thank you.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Kondinia from Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, two, three questions from my end. So, firstly, on the market share on the exam side, last year, you were about 55 odd percent. Where would you be currently? And how would that number correspond? I mean, at different ports, have you lost or gained share anywhere? If you can speak a little bit about that.

Yeah, I will tell you the entire year. Last year in Exim, it was 55.2%. This year it is 53.9%. Domestic, last year was 57.6%. This year it is 55.9%. Overall, last year it was 55.9%. This year it is 54.5%. There is a marginal drop in market share. Big reasons are we purposely avoided picking up the low-margin businesses on some segments, and some market share we lost in domestic. What share is concerned, already I have told, for all the three points.

My second question is, you know, I mean, with respect to the empty running, for the quarter gone by, that is, the March 26th quarter, your domestic empty running cost went up by about 6% in the YOY and restored it correctly, which is similar to the YOY growth in your domestic coordinating volumes. So, therefore, I mean, why there is a sharp drop in margin? I understand you spoke about the empty running and all that due to candy bags, but then the empty running cost on a wire-wire basis is pretty similar to your cargo volume load. Therefore, on a per-TU basis, I mean, are there any other elements which we are missing, or at least is there a gap in our understanding? Please can help us there, please.

Now, if we see the Q4 Y on Y, the domestic empty running has increased by 11.3%, not by 65 or 6%. It is 11.3%. Last year, it was 68.94 crores. This year, it is 76.76 crores. So, that is a growth increase of 11.3% in domestic. The reason that I was telling you. Because of the eastern side, we have to move empty containers. And originating volumes in domestic have increased by 1.9%. And then lead has also come down from 1321 kilometers to 1309 kilometers. So all these factors have contributed to the numbers in domestic.

If I may ask one last question, how is the current quarter shaping up? Because with the West Asia crisis and everything, are you seeing higher empty running or lower double stacking? I mean, how are the operations impacted? Because we understand Middle East is a key export destination. So how is it impacting the operations now? Not just in terms of volumes, but also in terms of managing the empty running movement, etc.

See, now, as I told earlier also, April month was not very good for us from business point of view. But from May, business has really picked up quite well. We are seeing good tendencies at ports also, and exports are also picking up. Domestic is also now gradually increasing. So from May onwards, we are seeing some upsurge. So we hope to end the quarter on a positive note.

Sir, my question is more specific to, you know, the operations rather than just the business because of the Middle East being a key export destination, are you seeing a potentially higher empty running or lower double stacking in the current quarter is what I was trying to understand? Because there were some media articles quoting that, just trying to confirm it from you.

I don't have the numbers with me right now, so a specific question, I cannot answer that question. Right now, I don't have the numbers with me for this current quarter.

Sure, sir. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Krishna Indusaha from Quantum AMC. Please go ahead.

Yeah, so I'm giving a question.

So just a clarification of the centimeter with BCSA has an output of 59,000. So this is what I'm using from the CID value in the parliament. So is it that we have to make an investment of 50% of the 60, 59,000? Is that obviously right or wrong? Can we just help you with that, please?

Sir, your voice is not clear. I am not able to understand your question. Can you move away from I can then tell you because I am not able to understand.

Yeah, hello, can you hear me? What is it? Hello?

What is the question? What is it?

Yeah, when I look at a request from PIB, Atmanir Bhair container drive taking shape with the DCSL, it was about an outlay of investment of 59,000 crores. So, is that understanding that we have to fork out 30% of that, or just trying to understand, because this first piece talks about a large number of subscription and calls and shows. So, just want your thoughts on that. And the second question is on the, sorry, the second question is on the Mumbai.

At the moment, I cannot comment on what is there on press release, and it's a confidential information, how much we have to spend in that JV. It's not possible. I will not use this forum to comment on that.

Okay, fine. Just from the Bharat Mumbai container of the PSA. Now, what is the reason, sir, we have to get into an agreement with PSA? Isn't that the container is offload automatically and we get it? Or is that like we get the right of a distribution or something like that? Is there anything more benefits us in that manner? Just trying to understand that business. And just last one, what are the expenses of interest drastically and the percentage of revenue? So, we just throw some light on that. It will be helpful.

See, actually the PSA, that agreement we have signed, that's a unique agreement, because for the first time, we will be bringing domestic containers as well as the cabotage containers also on that train, so that we have got special permission from customs. That permission is for everybody. Anybody can use that. So we will be bringing domestic plus Exim containers from their terminal. And why PSA? The reason is that they have a fully compliant DFC yard in GNPT, a huge yard they have constructed. from which double stack trains can be directly run. So this will be domestic. Now the other terminals at JNPT are also approaching Concord to sign similar agreements with them. We are evaluating that. And very soon we may be signing with other players also.

So, is it like they have to give you a certain amount of volume, or you have to be on time? Is agreement, what agreement says that there has to be some agreement? So, what is the underlying thing which holds up the agreement? You can shed some light on that.

See, it's a confidential agreement. I can't share. It's not in public domain. But all I can say is it will bring more business to conquer.

Yes, sir. And the other expenses will increase drastically, including this thing. And do you think after DSC goes in full force, you'll have expenses increasing on the haulage charges? Because now full prices have increased everything. We've become more competitive with DSC operating come June. So what do you think the haulage charges could be at this level, hovering at whatever the number is right now?

I will answer your second part first, and then first part, I will request my Principal Executive Director of Finance for other charges. As you told, for DFC, holy charges are same as Indian Railway. There is no difference at all. So, if I run train on Indian Railway or I run train on DFC, I have to pay the same money. There is no difference at all. So, I will share a part of that saving with my customers by tinkering on tariffs for containers which are moving on Upper Deck. So, then my tariff for Upper Deck will become competitive with road tariff. So, I will be able to attract business on Upper Deck.

Sir, no, I get that. I was just trying to understand whether you see an increase in college charges. I get the economics of upper and lower tech and so on and so forth. But is there, do you see in the light in the recent happening of all this war and et cetera, et cetera, we don't get into details, but do you see any increase in college charges as a whole for the Indian railways, from the Indian railways to us? That's what I was trying to drive there.

Okay, okay. See, that is actually, that I can't comment. That is a decision taken by Indian Railways, but at present, I can tell you there is no such move that Indian Railways is going to increase the haulage charges.

Sure thing. Yeah, other charges,

Mr. Harish Chandra, our Principally Executive Director, I will request him to answer.

Okay, sir.

In fact, the element of rail freight and other operating expenses we have shown separately, and the other expenses normally include the expenses related to maintenance, the legal expenses, and the expenses related to security terminals. So, there has been some increase in our maintenance expenses and the AMCs which are payable for our contract because we have also set up a DR site last year. So, the maintenance cost of that has also gone up. So, because of these elements like ESR expenses and maintenance expenses, there is some increase in other expenses.

So is this 120 crores, is this the 100 we look at for every year, or is this like, this is just one quarter of an hour?

No, this is not a one-off. This will be basically, this will be a recurring expense. Maintenance is a recurring expense.

No, no. So, the expenses were around 3.53. So, on an average, for this quarter, it shot up to 5.3, 5.4. Practically, 2% is more. So, just trying to drive that whether this expenditure is normalized at 3.54 or it is going to be at 5.4, 5.5. So, that takes up one and a half percentage of my EBITDA margin. So, that helps me later. So this is right.

No, the expense for the year, if you see in the other expenses, it is 358 crores.

Yeah, that's for the whole year. I'm just trying to write for the quarter.

Yeah, so on an average, you can see the expenses would be around, you know, 70 to 80 crores per quarter.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we will take this as the last question for the day. I now hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.

Shareholders is that the company has, over the years, earned a very good name among all its stakeholders, and we are able to give best service to the customers, and without sacrificing our margins. We have a world-class infrastructure. We are standing on very strong fundamentals, and all ethical working is there in our company, and we have got good contacts, good relationships. And with all stakeholders, including various government departments, various customers, and other business associates, so they value our company very much, and this confidence has been reposed. Every year, we are getting more and more business. Government has also decided, government decided to make our company important stakeholder when they decided to constitute Bharat container shipping line. That goes a very strong testimonial from the government. For the good governance that is prevalent in your company.

Thank you so much, sir. On behalf of Dam Capital Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us and Human Outage Connect Your Lines.