JM Financial Limited (JMFINANCIL) Q2 2027 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the earnings conference call for JM Financial Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Links start in zero on your touchtone phone. Kindly note that any forward-looking statements made on this call are based on the management's current expectations. However, the actual results may vary significantly, and therefore, the accuracy and completeness of this expectation cannot be guaranteed. Please note that this conference has been recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Parjariwala from Dam Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Q2 F526 Earnings Call of JM Financial. On behalf of Daim Capital, I thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host the call. On the call, we have Vishal Kampani, Vice Chairman and Managing Director. We have Sonia Gupta, Managing Director and CEO of Investment Banking. Anuj Kapoor, Head of Private Wealth. Amitabh Mohanty, CEO of JM Financial Asset Management Company, Manish Seed, MD and CEO of JM Financial Home Loans, and Nishit Shah, Group CFO. Further ado, I'll give the call to Vishal to take you to the key update. And thank you. And over to you, Vishal.

Thank you, Parth. Thank you, everyone, for joining the call. We have seen very good progress on the build-out. Of our customer franchise across each of our businesses. And the quarter to FI27 results are supported by a very strong performance in corporate advisory and capital markets businesses. And all the operating parameters in most of the businesses are showing healthy trends. I'm pleased to report that we were ranked number one across IPOs and QIPs and closed transactions of over 83,000 crores in quarter two, and the pipeline for our equity, our debt, our advisory business is extremely robust. And we still have 1,30,000 crores worth of transactions, which are already filed with the regulator for execution over the next 12 months, and many more to be filed this quarter and next quarter. On the private markets business, we witnessed strong disbursements during the quarter. I had earlier guided For around 20% growth year on year, we have kind of already hit that target in the first six months of the year with almost 1,000 crores of disbursement, and a significant portion of that is to our franchise clients, which are our corporate advisory clients under the bespoke vertical. The standard loans have grown by 22% on a YOY basis in the private markets business, and our cash and cash equivalents have reduced from approximately 3,000 crores to 1,700 crores, largely because of these disbursements and also because we've repaid some borrowings without the need to borrow significantly. But over the next one year, because of the growth that we are seeing ahead, We will resume adding to leverage on the private market's balance sheet. In wealth management, recurring AUM and loans continue to show very good traction. They've grown approximately 17% to 40,000 crores, and the focus has been on improving productivity. We are, as mentioned in my earlier two calls, carefully monitoring the performance of Our sales teams across Ultra H&I, H&I, and the retail segments, and making sure that all the sales teams are adding to productivity on a month-on-month basis. And this will continue to be our endeavor and our focus for the next six months. In asset management, we achieved the first close of our maiden pre-IPO fund. And in the first close itself, we have raised over 700 crores. And we are also expecting the first close of our second performing credit fund within this financial year. And the response to that fund also has been tremendous. So very pleased to report that we've seen very good traction in the alternative space, and we look to build upon that. Our affordable housing finance business reported a 30% year-on-year growth in AUM and a 48% year-on-year growth in disbursements, and the AUM in the business now stands at 4,000 crores. In line with our earlier guidance of higher distribution, we have declared an interim dividend of rupees 1.65 per share. Now, taking the total payout to Rs.7.6 per share over the last six quarters, and this Rs.7.6 represents a dividend payout of 727 crores in the last six months. With this brief update, I will ask Nishith to take you through the numbers, and then we can open up for Q&A. Thank you.

Thank you, Vishal. Consolidated interest income increased by 12% year-on-year to Rs. 437 crores. Standard loan book across private markets, wealth, and affordable home loans business has increased 23% year-on-year to Rs. 10,270 crores. Fees, commission, and brokerage income increased by 38% quarter-on-quarter to Rs.520 crores on the back of investment banking transactions and growth in recurring AUM in the wealth management business. For quarter to FY27, consolidated net revenue stood at Rs.712 crores and profit after tax after non-controlling interest stood at Rs.240 crores. For the half-year, net revenue grew by 7% to almost 1,600 crores and profit after-tax and non-controlling interest stood at Rs. 531 crores. The consolidated net worth, excluding non-controlling interest, stood at approximately Rs. 11,000 crores, translating to a book value of Rs. 115 per share. Consolidated gross leverage is one time. Coming to the business segment. Corporate advisory and capital markets. This includes the investment banking business and the institutional equity business. For quarter to FY27, net revenue grew 2.5 times quarter on quarter to Rs. 286 crores and profit after tax grew 4 times quarter on quarter to Rs. 127 crores. During the quarter, we have witnessed reduction in deal values in some of the transactions. For the half-year, net revenue stood at Rs 400 crores and profit after tax stood at Rs 158 crores. Annualized ROE for the segment stood at approximately 36%. Private Markets. This business comprises of private credit, which is bespoke real estate and distressed credit, and investments, which include private equity funds, REITs, etc. Disbursements in the private markets for the second quarter doubled to Rs. 977 crores, primarily in the bespoke category. Standard loans have grown by 22% to Rs. 4,748 crores. With the increase in loan book, the cash and cash equivalents have reduced from Rs. 3,077 crores in June 2026 to Rs. 1691 crores in September 2026. Net revenue and profit after tax and non-controlling interest for the quarter stood at Rs. 120 crores and Rs. 77 crores respectively. For the half-year, net revenue grew by 63% to Rs. 582 crores and profit after tax stood at Rs. 305 crores. Wealth and Asset Management. On wealth management, sales and relationship managers strength stood at 948 professionals with 71 branches and 898 franchises. Wealth loan book grew by 30% year-on-year to approximately 2,600 crores and recurring AUM. Of our wealth business grew by 16% year-on-year to Rs. 37,000 crores. Overall recurring AUM including loans stood at approximately 40,000 crores which is an increase of 17% year-on-year. On a year-on-year basis recurring revenues grew by 20% to Rs. 216 crores. Profit after tax for the quarter increased by 57% quarter-on-quarter to Rs 30 crores. For the half-year, recurring revenues grew by 20% to Rs 420 crores and profit after tax stood at Rs 49 crores. In the asset management business, we achieved the first close of our maiden pre-IPO fund with commitments of approximately Rs 700 crores. E-I-F-E-U-M. Including commitments across performing credit and pre-IPO strategies now stands at 1,063 crores. Average AUM from non-liquid funds stood at approximately 11,200 crores, which is up 7% on a quarter-on-quarter basis. For our asset management business, management fees from mutual funds for quarter to FI27 increased by 24% to Rs.12 crores and by 40% to Rs.25 crores for the half year. Losses after minority interest stood at Rs 10 crore for the second quarter and Rs 14 crore for the half-year. Coming to affordable home loans business, this business includes our home loans business in the affordable segment. We have a branch network of 152 and a customer base of approximately 37,500. Assets under management increased by 30% year on year to approximately 3,900 odd crores. For the second quarter as well as for the half-year, revenue increased by 22% year-on-year to Rs.133 crores and Rs.256 crores respectively. Profit after tax and non-controlling interest increased by 41% year-on-year to Rs.18 crores for the current quarter and by 29% to Rs.35 crores for the half-year. With this brief update, I would hand over the call to the moderator for questions.

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on the touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Dekanth Arya from GreenEdge Wealth. Please go ahead.

Yeah, I think three questions from my side. Firstly, it's been a very tough... It's been a very tough market for the last 6-7 months, last 3 months specifically, but we still manage something good in our CA capital markets and corporate advisory division. Our pipeline is also very strong. How do you see the conversion and what is the dependency on markets for most of the transactions and do we have more of M&A or market independent transactions which we are trying to chase in certain environments? So any comments here, Vishal?

Yeah, sure. So I think, yeah, the markets have been very choppy. But as I said on my last call, Degan, that we saw revival of the business coming pretty strongly in somewhere in the month of June on the primary side. And July, August, September has been very good. Luckily for us, we had a very good pipeline which was built in place. And on the primary side, there has been a lot of interest, not only for mutual funds and domestic family offices, but we've also seen FPI participation in the primary markets. And we were very razor-sharp focused as management to make sure that as soon as we got the first opportunity, we were able to push many of our transactions and deals out. And also happy to report that a significant portion of our deals actually have traded up and have done very well. Also, because of the difficult environment, we also, though our revenue number Q1Q is sharply up in corporate advisory and capital markets, we've approximately lost 45 to 50 crores of revenue purely because of the environment being difficult, many of the deal sizes were reduced. So, to give you the actual number, in the last quarter itself, We had a 10,000 crore reduction in deal size, which actually got launched compared to where they were filed with the regulator. That's approximately 40 to 50 basis points of fee loss for us, 40 to 50 crores. Despite that, I think the performance has been very solid. I think the developments in the markets today itself are very encouraging and very positive. And if this momentum continues, then I think we will be able to easily in the next six months, I would say five months, be able to significantly complete a large part of our pipeline. And as I've been saying for many quarters, this is not a business for the short term. The growth in the Indian markets continue. I think peak to peak, you will only see good developments and a lot of growth in the capital markets, private markets, and corporate advisory space. So right now, of course, things have been challenging, but deal activity is not stopping. We are hopeful that, you know, the month of October has been decent, and we hope that November, December also will be pretty decent.

Perfect, perfect, Vishal. Thanks, sir. Second part, you know, which I thought was very interesting was that in the private credit, you know, we've seen a good loan book growth after some time and, you know, the cash and cash equivalents have come down. So probably the yields and income should start improving from next quarter. And like, do you expect this number of 4700 crores to keep growing every quarter now? Like, has anything changed in that private credit market or, you know, just...

No, as I again mentioned to you last call, as well as the call before that is, we were just... We are very disciplined, right? When we see the right risk adjusted returns, which we can add to our balance sheet, we will do it. And we saw that in the September quarter. So we added. Also, I think, you know, whenever the equity markets get a bit choppy, there is always more action on the credit side. So I think it's a very good quarter for us specifically in September, because even private markets and private credit. So a lot of action. And we have a very interesting model because when capital markets were not doing well in the June quarter, private markets business, specifically ARC, had very good recoveries. And you know the ARC business is lumpy, but it's seen very, very good recoveries. I'm also happy to inform that one very large account has got resolved and the final approval came through in NCLT in the month of October. Which again gives us over almost 330, 340 crores of liquidity before the close of this quarter. So I think there is just tremendous progress across every part of our business. You know, some is a bit lumpy and some is more steady. So in the same way, private credit, I think, will be a little bit lumpy. I wouldn't say it's going to be very steady because... There could be a quarters where we don't like the risk adjusted returns and we don't want to do deals. And if we feel we can't syndicate, then we won't do it here. That's how it will be. But as I mentioned last time as well, there are endeavors to grow this business at 20% year on year, which I think we should be able to do.

Okay, okay, okay. All right, all right.

Thanks. And lastly, on this wealth side, you know, we've given a split of recurring versus non-recurring transactional income this time. So, that's good to see that in the presentation. Yes, you know, you'd want to highlight like the progress, you know, we've done a lot of hiring and, you know, I think we closed an AIF successfully also, like, you know, just on the recurring part, you know, what's happening and what efforts are you putting for the future? That's it from my side, Vishad.

Yeah, so basically all our efforts are going into... Building out the recurring side of the business, and if you have a look at some of the numbers on page 14, we've had almost 20% growth year-on-year in our recurring revenue. Our assets have grown almost 17% to 18%, and we are very focused on productivity. We've seen some rationalization on the headcount on the sales side. And that is, you know, all positive. It is all sort of things that we have actioned and not stuff that we have lost to the market or competition. So I think all in all, the progress is very decent. It's very competitive out there. But, you know, having a strong brand, having a strong culture of client first helps us. We've retained some very good talent, and they're all progressing very well. And that strength in distribution is also allowing to build alternatives business. And that's why we had a very successful first close of our pre-IPO fund. We should be announcing our first investment very shortly as well. And we hope to have... The first close of our second credit fund to happen this quarter as well. So the magic of a strong distribution and the flywheel pushing hard into the manufactured products is working pretty well.

All right, Vishal. Thank you for these details. Thank you and all the best to do. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pawan Kumar from Edelweiss Public Alternatives. Please go ahead.

Hi, Vishal. Thank you for the opportunity. A couple of questions. On the private credit book, right, that you have mentioned, investments have gone down from 3,700, 3,070 crores to like 1,700 crores. And you mentioned that like you will increase the borrowing over the year, but the investment book, is it going to remain at like a 1,700 crore? Or do you think like it'll go back to the 3,100 crore? Basically, follow up to what Diganth was saying, right? Will the yield start increasing in this overall private credit side?

Yeah, so the investment book is largely cash. I mean, we will obviously always maintain some level of cash. And that's healthy to do just in terms of your ALM structure and the opportunities that you may encounter on the loans and investment side. And I think we're getting close to there. So I think we'll at least want to always maintain a thousand crores of cash. As just pure cash. And therefore, I think with this quarter's planned disbursement, we will probably need to start borrowing from next quarter itself. We also usually sometimes face some prepayments on the wholesale side. So we will plan for that. But definitely, I think we have reached the bottom of our debt equity in this business, which currently is at 0.8 times. I can confidently say that we've bottomed. So I think we will look to borrow and we will look to use the borrowing to grow. Secondly, we have some very interesting investments long term on the equity and the alternative side, which we want to hold. I think we necessarily have to suffer mark to market every quarter for it. For example, we merge one of our ARC assets into Gokultas exports. And we take a quarterly mark to market on that. And it's a fantastic company, and it has suffered because of the tariff which has been placed by the U.S. government. And the U.S. is a large market for them. But we really believe in the long-term management and long-term progress that the management is making in that business. So we want to stay invested. So we'll face some volatility on the equity and alternative side, but that's fine. On the distressed credit side, If you look at page 13 closely of our presentation, the number has come down to almost 2,825 crores in terms of SR investments. And we have another 350 crores of cash resolution to JM, a total resolution of almost 800 crores this quarter. So that number is going down, and we'll look to invest more on the SR side as well. We are seeing a lot of interesting retail. So, I think we'll see good growth on a granular basis on the ARC side as well. So, it's quite exciting, and because of growth on the equity alternative on the SR and the loan book side, I think it's time to renew borrowing. And we have tremendous leverage capacity because we have limits to go up to four times debt equity in this business, and we are at 0.8. So, yeah, we're in good shape, and we'll keep investing in private markets across whichever asset class gives us the best risk-adjusted return.

Thank you so much. On the same thing, on the bespoke book that went up to 3,800 crores this quarter from 3,000, how much of that lending is related to LAS or capital market, like the heightened IPO activity that we have seen? My question is, is this 3,800 going to be structural or will it fall off in a shorter duration?

No, no, no. A significant portion of this 800 for last quarter is in the two to three-year bucket in terms of maturity.

Got it. And what happened to the yield?

So the last, the margin trade finance and last short term book, now that is all in wealth management. Because that's the margin trade finance book and a lot of wealth customers, they need financing. So we don't do too much or short term last in the private markets book, the individual last business is all in wealth management. In private markets, it's all corporate borrowing, promoter borrowing, which is very seldom less than one year. So where you will see the volatility in terms of the number going down is when we are syndicating it down, not to keep the risk on our balance sheet. So it's not that we are doing short-term loans where... You know, most of the loans in Bespoke are between two to three years, and real estate is between three to four years, and the SR structures are anywhere between 18 months to 36 months. So there is nothing which is rarely anything which is being done, unless there are some large corporations which just need some short liquidity financing, which we do from time to time, but it's very small in terms of the number.

Go ahead. Just last two questions on the private credit book. The real estate, you said that you are seeing a lot of opportunities, but the book continues to be stable, not increased. Is there any kind of stress that you are seeing in the sector or any of the top metros that you generally focus on?

No, we're not seeing any particular stress, but the pricing is a challenge. Everybody wants real estate to be priced at the same level as corporate. And that doesn't work for us. Real estate needs to be at least at 200 to 300 basis points pricing above corporate.

Fair enough. Is that the only reason for the drop in yield? Like, I mean, the last book going up and then the real estate staying stable and the overall yield is falling.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Thank you. On the ARC, you mentioned that there is one inflow of 300 crores that got resolved in October, right? How much will be the gain to us? And second thing is, what is the kind of overall recovery expectation for this year and then the next year?

We don't disclose specific acid gains, but some of that is already factored into our... You know, fair value changes that you report quarter on quarter, but some will come this quarter. And so ARC, after this large asset is resolved, we'll still have almost 2,000 crores in SR investments, which we will look to resolve and get the cash back over the next 18 months to two years. And, usually, the. The returns on that are modeled at around 16% to 18%.

Got it. Thank you so much, Vishal. Those are my questions. Once again, all the rest. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chintan Patel from Philip Capital India Private Limited. Please go ahead.

Thanks, thanks for the opportunity, sir. Sir, my question on the capital market, as the healthy deal pipeline roughly around 1,30,000 crore, 48,000 euro is likely to come, with several things sorted out on the capital market side. So, how do you see the segment? What kind of growth one can be such for the near to medium term? Whether we are seeing margin and ROE likely to go back to FI25 levels?

Hello.

Hello. Yeah, just to get your question right, so you want to understand the growth of the capital market and IPO segment pipeline, right? Yeah, so the growth still remains very strong. You will see more filings that we will do even in the December quarter and March quarter. The number of mandates that we are winning is The ROE is sort of best in class right now. So business is looking very good. The ROE over here in the business is extremely high because we don't need capital in this segment. It actually operates almost an infinite ROE because the capital we have is just the profit that we've plowed back and kept as cash on the balance sheet in this business. So we try to maintain one year of cost. As cash, that's what we continue. So around 400 crores, 500 crores of cash is maintained. But the profitability here is, we expect it to grow at around 15 to 20 percent from a peak-to-peak perspective. So compounding 15 to 20 percent, and we see a new peak every four to five years in this business. Perfect.

On the wealth management side, we have been focusing on productivity. So, recurring AUM and recurring revenues grow in line by around 20%. Can you share some color on profitability on recurring business? What could be the margin on recurring business?

Yeah, sure. So on the yields front, we have roughly gross yields of around 50 basis points on the recurring side, and we have net yields of around 35 basis points on the recurring business. It's actually 51 basis points on gross and roughly 35 basis points on. On net. As we scale, as you know, that last 18 months, we have done a lot of recruitment. Last, in fact, not 18, I would say 36 months, we've done a lot of recruitment. And over the last six months, we've been focusing a lot on productivity. And we will continuously have that cycle. We will have 18 months to two years of strong recruitment, and then we'll focus one year, one and a half years on making it much more productive. So I think as we scale and we reach more operating leverage, I think this business will get more profitable and you will see a better gross yield and better net yield numbers. We, for the wealth business, we broke even in the month of September. September was a very good month, both for recurring revenues as well as some transaction revenues. And I hope that that trend continues. But Anuj, you can add more in terms of how do you see profitability in the business?

So I think the new assets, recurring assets that we are adding are at a yield of north of 60 basis points, and you'll see an improvement in these gross yields as we keep on adding new assets.

Okay. Got it.

Okay. And sir, on the asset management side, UM is largely flat on a sequential basis. Your SIP book is come down from 90 crore to 87 crore. Considering the lot of MFR coming out and competition is increasing. So, can we give some sense on this business? What is our strategy? And what would be the growth we are envisaging over the next couple of years?

Yeah, so let me just add one or two points and Amitabh can then answer that question. I think we are seeing a lot of players enter this segment, but... Many of the schemes, especially on the small cap side and mid cap side and flexi cap side, have seen volatility in the last one year. Purely coming out of macro and maybe some concentrated calls. And therefore, better risk management as well as having a broader basket of funds is more important to be able to leverage the broad spectrum mutual fund opportunity. So in the last six months, that's what the team has endeavored to build. Second, we see a big, big opportunity on the alternative side, and we are building on that pretty strongly, and we think the point of breakeven for alternatives is going to be a lot faster than the point of breakeven for the mutual fund assets. So, therefore, it's equally important for us to grow the equity mutual fund piece as well as the alternatives piece. Amitabh, if you want to add something.

Yeah, Vishal. As Vishal said, we are looking at the AMC platform as a whole and not the mutual fund platform in isolation. The whole idea is to ensure that there are multiple income streams, revenue streams, which are not correlated to each other. So, while we will continue to build our mutual fund book, a lot of focus is on the AIF side. Like Vishal mentioned, our first close of our pre-IPO has been done. We've garnered a very respectable 700 close plus in the first close and hope to do the final close in the next few months. Road shows are on for our second performing credit. The first performing credit is fully drawn down, well on the way to full deployment. Also, we are looking to start more strategies under the credit side of the AF platform. Further, next year, early next year, we will be looking to start our SIF platform as well. So you will see the AMC having three distinct revenue streams, one from the Alternates, one from SIS, and the third one from the Mutual Fund. And each will have their own timelines on break-even. Mutual fund will take a bit more time, and given the challenging market conditions, it's taking a bit more time. But if you look at our alternates, I think that will achieve break-even reasonably fast. And ASAPs, again, once we start, we will figure out the timeline. So building a very, very robust revenue stream, which is diversified and uncorrelated, and therefore gives more predictability in volatile markets.

Okay, got it, sir. Sir, we are looking for any products on the Gabe City platform because a couple of products are just coming out and getting good responses. So, how do you see this platform? We are looking out some product on this platform.

We are, but that's a slightly medium term in nature. We are looking to stabilize the first of the three platforms, which are right now live and the SRF, which is early next year. And post that, we will look at the density entity, which will fund both inflows as well as outflows. So that's on that.

And just to add, meanwhile, we continue to distribute third-party products very actively. To GiveCity, providing access to our clients to quality international product. Also, we have a setup in Singapore through a variable capital company structure, which actually serves as an alternative to GiveCity and a quite effective and efficient one as well. And we engage quite deeply with our clients and that business is also growing quite well.

That business actually has scaled in AUM from literally zero 18 months ago to over $225 million today. And it's almost seeing quarterly net asset additions of more than $30 to $40 million. Okay. Okay. Okay. And that's also all asset management, but it's primarily driven by internal distribution.

Okay. Perfect, sir. Thank you. Thanks for taking my question. That's all. Thank you.

The next question is from the line of path from Dam Capital. Please go ahead.

Hi, team. Thanks for the opportunity. Those are two questions. One, if I look at the sequential performance across segments, the metrics have improved, profitability has also improved, except for private markets, which are one-offs in Q1 due to a large resolution. So, essentially, I want to understand what is the outlook across segments for the rest of the years while you have allocated to capital markets outlook, but some color on other segments also will be helpful on where the momentum is, whether it is sustaining or not. And secondly, on the well side, the RMs have reduced its more to do with productivity improvement or there is anything else to read into. And thirdly, sir, if on a broad consolidated level, can we bring a split between what is our recurring revenue for a steady-state income and some portion which is linked to capital markets or transactions which have been kindly slower in this last six months, and how has been the steady-state revenue or recurring revenue improved over last year, that would be really helpful.

Thank you.

Yeah, so let me just answer the second question for right away that the loss in RMs that you've seen is purely on productivity basis. And, you know, that is all planned internally, because we want a more sharper sales franchise. So that is, there's nothing more to read into it. In fact, by the end of the year, end of the financial year, and early next year, we'll be back to recruiting again. So it's just about, as I said, you have a phase of recruitment, and you have a phase of making that recruitment productive. Nishith has the answer to your recurring revenues and transactional revenue split on a broad basis. He'll just take you through the numbers.

Yeah, so Parth, basically approximately 50% of our revenues are from recurring sources.

This is total revenue, right?

Total, out of the total revenue. Also, I would like to add that our brokerage on the institutional side as well as the non-institutional side is extremely sticky. So those revenues are about 12 to 15% of the total revenues. So, if we add both of them, it's roughly 62 to 65 percent, which you can club under the recurring bucket. The rest of the revenues are transactional, and within transactional, as you are aware, we have leadership in the investment banking business. We have some movement on account of mark-to-market as well as certain recoveries on the ARC. So that can be a little while, but at least 62 to 65% of the revenues are recurring in nature.

Now, coming to your first question, I think I've broadly given that guidance before as well. I think each of our businesses is seeing Very exciting times, and we've guided that corporate advisory and capital markets will see anywhere between a 15% to 20% growth over the next couple of years, three to five years. We've guided private markets will see a similar number, a 20%-ish increase on the loan book and around 15% increase. On the investment side, and as I mentioned earlier, we're kind of running out of cash, so we probably will add to debt capacity because of growth, which is a very, very good sign. Wealth management, we've maintained 20 to 25 percent growth. In AUM, subject to mark-to-market, sometimes these numbers can be closer to 20, and if the markets are good, numbers are closer to 25%. We are adding infrastructure and spending on technology on a continuous basis in the broking business, and that growth will continue. I think our cash market share has literally grown every year in the last five to six years, which, again, is a healthy sign. Asset management, again, we expect to have 15% to 20% growth. We need to broad base our manufactured product breadth, which we are doing. We are adding more mutual fund schemes and adding some very interesting credit products, and we already have a pre-IPO product. So that is... This is very exciting, and we see good growth over there. And on the home loan side, we've talked about 25% to 30% growth in AUM, and we've already hit 4,000 crores of AUM there. So overall, I think if you were to sort of weighted average this number, we're looking at 20% growth, at least for the next five years, year on year. A lot of investments have been made, and I think we'll see. Very decent profitability emerge out of that.

Sure, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anubhav Goel from Cosma Ventures. Please go ahead.

Yeah, hi, sir. Sir, I have just one question. So, in wealth, we are focusing on productivity and the IRM number has come down this quarter. So, I just wanted your thoughts on how the total AUM and especially the recurring AUM number. From this current 37,000 crores can end up for the next month to quarter. Will it broadly stay here or can it grow on a quarterly basis?

I think partly it's a function of market, so that's the mark-to-market effect. But otherwise, on a steady-state basis, we will add the growth rates at which Vishal mentioned. In spite, and one thing to note is that in spite of the number of RMs falling down, there's been a steady growth in the recurring AUM number. So, we do hope to grow, expect rather to grow this number in double digits.

So, sir, if market conditions are reasonable, so we can expect some growth or from this 37,000 crore number to come even for the third quarter.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Okay. Great to hear. Great to hear. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kanish Gupta from SS Family Office. Please go ahead.

Yeah, very good afternoon. You previously highlighted two-and-a-half to three-year registration period for the new RMs that were hired during the expansion phase. So with wealth management, excluding the broking, started to break even in FY27. Given the pressure on the transitional revenues, what would be the current average net new money per RM being captured by the new cohort versus the mature cohort?

So I think the net new money additions that are getting done by the new cohort have actually been quite encouraging because as they have joined, they have transferred assets as well from their previous relationships, whereas the existing cohort continues to add on a steady state basis in terms of top-ups from existing clients as well as all across consistently adding new clients as well. In terms of the additions, the net additions, I'll have to just come back to you on the number.

It would be roughly 75 crores per RM, roughly.

This is for the new cohort?

This will be for the existing cohort. The new cohort would be probably half that number.

Okay, and by when do we expect the employee expense ratios to peak relative to the fee income?

It will take a while, because as I said, from next year, we'll get into recruitment mode again, because the build strategy is up to 2030. So as I said, the idea is you recruit for two years, and then you figure out who is productive in your system, who is not. And then you rationalize a bit, and then you get back to recruitment again. So you have to look at it as you rightly ask the question from a cohort to cohort perspective. So by March, I think we'll be much more clear that in the last three years, what we've recruited, who will stay back, and most of the RMs who will be back in our system. Thank you. Which is the reduction in the growth of the revenues and therefore a slight delay in profitability.

Thank you very much for the detailed answer. That's it from my side and all the very best for the future.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akshay Javahar from Banyan Tree Associates LLP. Please go ahead.

Thank you for the opportunity. My first question was on the private credit space. So, like, if you look at the unit metrics, you know, like, the real estate and the non-core loan book is coming down. The yield is higher on a quarter-on-quarter basis. The standard loans have also increased, have grown well, basically, on a quarter-to-quarter basis. But why is it that on a year-on-year basis, the net revenue has not seen any growth or has seen a very marginal growth, if at all any?

No, I think because there was a lot of recovery in that business from the assets last year, no? So what happens when you have recovery, you also first add to interest income on the recovery, no? So therefore, the income artificially…

Sorry, if I look at just the net revenue part in, say, Q226…

What page are you on?

I have actually just put an Excel out, just give me a second. Next revenue, I think it will be there in the Excel that you'll put out. Yeah, it's on page 22. There the net revenue in Q2FI 26 is about 124, and in Q2FI 27 is 120. So what I want to understand is that operationally, all the assets under management and the loan book, everything is progressing well. Your yield between Q2 27 and Q2 26 is also in true. So, well... And, like, why is the revenue click not growing in the same direction?

No, this must be because of net gain on fair value changes, which we report on the ARC side, and also because we were carrying a lot more liquidity. At that point in time. And second, as I said, there'll be some level of higher gross interest income because of recoveries in the first half that we saw last year. But it's not a very meaningful number because end of the day, you know, as I said, if you have We have shares in Gokuldas, and we have shares in some of the resolutions that we've done. We face mark-to-market differences, which could be around 10 to 15 crores. So if you were to ignore that, you will probably see 10-12% growth in the net revenue. I would actually focus on the same page, just focus on half one to half two, because Having a more broader perspective is better than having a narrower quarter perspective. So if you see the half fund 26 revenues, if you go to page 22 of our presentation, the half fund net revenue is actually 357 crores, while the half fund for 27 is 582 crores. But if you see the operating PVT, it's almost the same, because there was a right back last year of 231, while the right back so far this year is only 15. And frankly, we're expecting some more right backs to happen in the next six to nine months, because we still have a lot of NPA recovery, which is underway. So, you know, the underlying growth of net revenue is pretty strong. It's actually 63% up YOY. And this does not include the write-backs from the impairment done on financial assets earlier.

Right. But the 63% also includes the ARC component, right, which in this year again would now come in Q3, correct, for 300%.

No, no, no, no, no. The ARC component was in... Q1 of this year and Q1 of last year. It's just, it's lumpy, right? Sometimes it's Q1, sometimes it's Q3, because we've had a lot of turnaround assets, which are all maturing and giving us capital back. As the ARC adds more and more retail granular assets, the volatility in their earnings also will reduce considerably over the next few years. So, therefore, it's better to focus from a half-to-half perspective. So, think of it this way. Just look at the net revenue line on the H1 F526 and H1 F527. If you were to ignore the right back of the profit from the NBFC perspective of 231 and 15, there has been a phenomenal growth in operating PBT in this business, right? Because you just shave off 231 from 478. Right. And the growth will be almost 60% in operating profit before tax.

But again, so Vishal, on the point of that growth of 60%, my counter there is that in Q1 of this year, there was an ARC recovery which happened, right?

Correct. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying the growth has been very strong because the ARC recovery happened, but Q1 of last year also had ARC recoveries. Okay. That's why I'm saying you look at the half-to-half. It is better to look at half-to-half. For example, if we have an ARC recovery in this quarter, we may not have it in Q4, right? So just look at private markets from a half-to-half perspective will give you a much better perspective than looking at it Q1Q.

Got it. And we're on track to broadly recover about 250 to 300 of the reversals on the impairments, right? Yes.

Yes. So we've said 250 this year. We are on track. Hopefully, fingers crossed, we should be able to close it by March 31st.

Okay, perfect. The other point I had on the wealth management side, again, so maybe I'm looking at it not in the best way, but like, again, on the wealth and asset management side, we've had the highest level of recurring AUMs. We've streamlined the sales force in terms of letting go of people who are not offering the right level of productivity. And the total AUM is also at nearly its all-time high. So, why is the growth in the wealth management slower, maybe, or am I looking at it wrong?

So, what's your question again?

So, why is the growth slower?

No, no, because wealth management also includes broking revenue, right? And because of certain changes in the regulation, which we are all aware of, the broking revenues were lower. So while we maintain market share and increase market share, the broking revenue for the industry has been lower in this half compared to the previous half. See, wealth management has broking income, interest income, and commission income from primary products and recurring revenues. So the broking income has been a bit flat. So if broking recovered strongly, then that will add to even further growth.

All right. And just one last point on the capital markets. You mentioned the previous, I think, participants that, you know, broadly about 15-20% year-on-year is what you will see over three to five years. Just from a more short-term perspective, do you see the business growing that much in the next for FI27, given that, you know, Q1 was highly depressed because of the environment? And do you see FI27 going to get about 15-20% growth for the full year?

I think so. I would model in, see, April and May were really horrible months because we literally had no deals going through. The activity really started in June. I would think 15% is a very reasonable number to assume for the rest of the year, especially after the kind of the market lift that we've seen today. And the results of the US election, I think India should see a lot more positive momentum. You know, I was on the roadshow myself meeting foreign investors in the US and UK just a few weeks back. And a lot of the negativity was coming from high crude oil prices, tariffs, you know, war in the Middle East, etc, etc. And also some part of it because of... We have concentrated investments in the AI boom. And I think all of these actually are very pro-India right now. Each of these parameters today, where we stand, literally in the last 24 hours, everything has changed to become pro-India.

All right. Got it. Okay. Thank you so much for your time and all the best for the next quarter.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nilesh Toshi from Prosperatory AMC. Please go ahead.

Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I have gone through the last six quarter results and found that the private market and corporate advisory are the two major segments which contribute significantly to profit, but both are not contributing simultaneously. Is there any inverse relation between these two segments? And is there any chance that both segments will contribute at the same time?

Yeah, that is actually a great question. I've been also waiting for the quarter where both simultaneously perform very well. But for some reason, we've had the good luck of making sure that when capital markets and corporate advisory is a bit slow, private markets has done very well. But I think... In the private market, some part of the volatility, as I said, comes from the investment book. It doesn't come so much from the loan book. Because in the investment book, we have SRs which are a bit lumpy in nature in terms of their resolution. And from an accounting perspective, we are very conservative. We don't book income on the SR till it is realized. And therefore, it becomes a bit lumpy. And there is, of course, mark-to-market on the equity and alternative portfolio that we hold. So, therefore, it becomes a bit lumpy. But as the loan book becomes bigger and we keep growing the loan book at 20%, and as the addition of retail assets increases in the ARC, the volatility of the private market business will reduce considerably. And hopefully that will allow us. To have more robust quarters, including both the businesses here. But having said that, I think a 15 to 20% growth rate for both these businesses over the long term, year on year, is absolutely fair to expect from a house like us.

Sir, my understanding is that when the capital market is in a good shape, there is a more chance for the ARC to have a deal. And so the private market may report the higher number in that quarter.

No, no, no. That is not correct. That is not correct. So I think, in fact, the ARC business as well as the private market business usually is pretty counter-cyclical. To the equity capital market business. In fact, when equity capital markets is doing very, very well, the need for credit is quite low. ARC on the retail asset side is pretty uncorrelated to what we do on the capital market side completely, because it's just largely NBFC selling some of their bad loans to us. So it is not correct. It is not actually related. What is related more? Two, the capital market corporate advisory business is the bespoke business. And yes, there have been many instances in the past where all three have grown very well together.

And so last question, is not good for the investor that the JM deemers the corporate advisory and capital market business as a separate listed entity to unlock the value because that business do not require the large capital and having the bigger or better ROE than the total business? So why JM is not thinking to deemers that business?

I'll tell you because, you know, this whole business has one big flywheel. A lot of the capital market clients, a lot of the corporate advisory clients, many of the private market clients work very closely with the wealth management business, the alternatives business. So there are a tremendous amount of synergies. I do understand your question on the ROE front, and it's not that we haven't thought about a demerger before. And at the same time, I think our wealth management and asset management business needs to become a little larger. And then we can consider if we have to spin off maybe wealth management, asset management, or maybe wealth management and corporate advisory together from the listed company today. But, you know, we've thought about this many times in the last few years. We just want to focus on execution and scale these businesses before going into any restructuring, which could be something earlier than we need to do it. So I think we will wait. We'll take that decision appropriately at the right time, but your thought is very well noted.

Thank you, sir. All the best, and happy Diwali in advance, sir.

Thank you. Happy Diwali.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pawan Kumar from Edelweiss Public Alternatives. Please go ahead.

Thank you for the opportunity to ask a follow-up question. On the wealth management, Anuj, just a small clarification. You were mentioning that the yields are around 51 basis points, right?

Gross yields on the recurring business.

If I take that 51 basis points on average, I get like 45 crores. And on the MTF book, let's say I take 12% yield, I would get like a 75 crores. So that is 120 crores, right? Can you explain the difference between the 216 crores that we have reported as revenue versus what I'm getting, the 120 crores?

There must be brokerage income also, because there is also brokerage income for mobile clients, right?

On the recurring side? On the recurring side, sorry. Yeah, on the recurring side, we also have other lending that we do. For example, the debtors financing as well as certain income that we earn on the fixed deposits, etc. that we hold. So all of that put together is the recurring income that we support.

Is this like the margin, I mean, the money that is kept for trading in the FNO, that kind of a thing? No, no. The margin money is for the clearing? No. No. Okay. Thank you. Just on one last question on the dividends, right? Yeah, go ahead. Any guidance on the final dividend And for the full dividend, like so far, you have announced two, right? One for the FI26, and then one which was announced this quarter. Would there be anything?

Yeah, so I think if you look at the interim dividend for last year, it was 1.5, and we've increased interim by 10% to 1.65. I think the final dividend we'll decide based on the results of the... Next two quarters, but I'm hoping that the growth should be similar to what we have done for the interim.

Go ahead. Thank you. No other questions for me. All of you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanjay Pandit from 1729 Capital. Please go ahead.

Hello, can you hear me?

Yes, yes.

Okay, this question is for Vishal. You're in the business of advising clients on capital structure, but you yourself as JM Financial have been sitting on excess capital for quite a while now and have a pretty low consolidated return on equity. You also have a stock that happens to be trading below tangible book value and well below NAV, maybe less than half of NAV today. Why not take this opportunity and do a large share buyback so one year from today you can demonstrate better returns on equity and rectify overcapitalization? You know the prospects of the company better than any of us. What treasury investment can you possibly make today that are better than buying back your own stock at, say, 50% or 60% of NAV? That's my question.

Yeah, that is a very good question. So fundamentally, one issue we have is that a significant portion of the liquidity that we have... Is in the NBFCs, and we've chosen to deploy that into business over the last one year, because there is no method of taking out this liquidity from the NBFCs without having a tax hit first at a holding company level before we implement a buyback. Second, a significant portion of the liquidity that we have in our holding company is... In NSE stock, which was unlisted, which has just got listed, and we are subject to a six-month lockup. The six-month lockup expires on the 27th of March, which releases a significant portion of liquidity for us. We will take that call, what we do with that liquidity in the month of April and May next year.

I see. And the final question is, you talked about targeting getting a 20% blended growth across the divisions. That makes a lot of sense over the next three to five years. What kind of PAT growth would accompany that revenue growth? And then what kind of return on equity could you expect to have, say, three years from today? Sort of blended in a normalized year, do you think?

Yeah, so I think we will be targeting a return on equity in the teens. In the mid-teens, that would be the endeavor towards the end of the investment cycle of many of our businesses. And I think the profit growth should be, if the revenue growth is between 15% and 20%, then the profit growth should be between 20% and 25% as we achieve more and more operating scale. And the joker in the pack here remains, of course, some part of our business being exposed to capital markets, and there is some volatility. But I think if you look three to four years out, I think the business would have significantly grown. And we are already seeing momentum on that. If you look at our numbers four or five years before or eight or 10 years before, each of these businesses actually have doubled in size every four to five years.

Correct. Okay. Thanks. Those are my questions. I would just encourage you guys, use this rare opportunity when your stock is so low to do a buyback once you do get the liquidity.

I agree. As a promoter family, we creeped 1% last quarter. So, we understand that the stock is at attractive levels, but we have these constraints because large part of capital is stuck in NBSs, as well as some part of it in the holding company is under lockup in national stock exchange shares, which just got listed.

Understood. Okay. Thanks so much for that.

Thank you.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question of the day.

And now I would like to hand the conference over to Mr. Vishal Kampani for closing comments.

Thank you very much, all of you, for attending our call and for all the interesting questions. And I wish everybody a very happy and prosperous Diwali and look forward to seeing you again next quarter. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of JM Financial, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect the lines.