Tinna Rubber and Infrastructure Limited (TINNARUBR) Q2 2027 Earnings Call Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Teena Rubber and Infrastructure Ltd. Q2 and H1FI 27 earnings conference call hosted by Co-India Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Sana Kapoor from GoIndia Advisors. Thank you and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you, Rutuja. Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to Tina Rubber and Infrastructure Limited's earnings call to discuss the Q2 and H1FI 27 results. We have on the call Mr. Gaurav Sekri, Joint Managing Director, Mr. Subhoth Kumar Sharma, Director and Chief Operating Officer, Mr. Abhay Kumar, Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Rajeshvi Dhartha, Business Development, Corporate Affairs. We must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward-looking statements and must be therefore viewed in conjunction with the risks that the company faces. May I now request Mr. Gaurav Degri to take you through the company's business outlook and financial highlights, subsequent to which we will open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Yes, well, I would like to hear.

And H1 FI27 earnings call. I will cover the strategic updates and then support will take H1 FI27 on both standalone and consolidated basis. In Q2, consolidated revenue grew 31% and PACT grew 45% year-on-year, reflecting the strength of our business model. Care Rating is also stable for long-term facilities, and Care A3 has 3,500 tonized rubber powder commissioning in Q3. It will take our total MRP capacity to 20,000 tons per hour, making us the world's largest producer of MRP. At our plant in Gourley, the dire pyrolysis oil began commercial sales in Q2, and we expect it to stabilize in Q3. And we expect commercial sales to come in in Q4. The capacity is now 18,000 tons per annum, and we expect the PCMB business to contribute 8 to 10% of the FY27 revenue, which is guidance given. We have completed 45 rows of CapEx in H1 out of rupees 100 crore client across FY27 and FY28. I am pleased to inform that we have completed acquisition of 40 acres of land in Andhra Pradesh for an integrated rubber and plastics recycling complex. We plan to invest approximately 250 crores over three years at this facility, which will involve tire recycling, plastics recycling, pyrolysis, and a recovered carbon black. In our Q2 filings, we have informed our shareholders that our Panipat plant land may be acquired by Haryana government. While our representation to the state government is pending against this acquisition, we wish to clarify that if this land is eventually acquired by the state government, our compensation due to us more than offsets the book value of this plant. Our Anipat facility is our oldest and smallest of the factories, where we only make grumb rubber and micronized rubber powder. All the plastics recycling facility in North India is not located at this, and as already informed in our Q2 filings, the acquisition of Anipat land, if it was to happen, will not have any material. One plant ran at 90% utilization in H1, and its EBITDA margins improved to 11.5% from only 6.4% in FI26. In South Africa, Phase 1 is complete, and exports of semi-processed material have begun. The 9,000 tonne per annum crumb line, part of our Phase 2 at South Africa, is now under commissioning. This has got delayed, and some of our equipment getting stuck in the Middle East and was not able to. In Saudi Arabia, a plot has been allotted for a 24,000 ton per annum tire recycling plant. We expect to begin construction in H, of course, subject to the geopolitical situation. We have also set up TINA Rappachile SPA in Santiago to widen our end-of-life fire sourcing network. I am pleased to inform renewable energy met 40% of our power needs in H1 as our renewable capacity rose from 1.23 megawatt to 4.48 megawatt, and the solar power savings reached approximately 2.37 crore. We remain focused on our vision 2029, which is to achieve revenue of 1,000 crores, revenue CAGR above 25% and profitability CAGR above 33%, EBITDA margins above 18% and ROC. Part of our vision is also to expand ourselves from 8 to 10 locations. I am pleased to inform that we are making good progress with this side handover to school.

And good afternoon, everyone, operational and differential performance. In H1FY27, tire crashing volumes grew 30% on year-on-year basis to 86,000 tons. Production of MRP, micronized rubber order, and reclaimed rubber rise by 19% supported by steady demand from the tire industry. Infrastructure revenue grew by 38% to 112 crores despite bitumen supply constraints. Industrial segment revenue grew 37% to Rs.85 crore also includes export volume which has contributed 6% to our total revenue and the export volume growth has been witnessed approximately 15%. Consumer segment revenue rose to Rs. 21 crore from 19 crore on price correction with stable volumes, with steel on price correction with stable volumes. Infrastructure and industrial remain our main road drivers. Revenue was Rs. 157 crore up from Rs. 140 crore. EBITDA grew by 37% to Rs.29 crores and PAT grew by 45% to Rs.17 crores, 18.8% against 18.0% and PAT margin 10.9% against 9.8%. Revenue grew by 25% to Rs.313 crores, while EBITDA grew by 50% to Rs.63 crores, and PAT grew by 60% to Rs.38. EBITDA margin stood at 20.4, and PAT margin stood at 12.2%. ...moderated from Q1 because of the startup costs, geopolitical uncertainties, and subsidiary performances. We expect these to normalize as operations scale. Subsidiaries, Oman reported PAT of 1.3 crores in H1. South Africa and Saudi Arabia combined together recorded a startup of 94 lakhs. At revenue of Rs. 41 crores and EBITDA stood at 4.7 crores, contributing Rs. 1 crore at the console level. Targeting revenue of Rs. 100 crores by FY27 by raising utilization at Kolkata, expanding nationally and growing its construction system business. It plans to launch next-generation self-repair products by FY28. Our balance sheet also strengthened further, 111 crore from Rs. 121 crore at the end of FY26. Our interest coverage improved to 9.91 from 7.49 and net debt to equity at 0.32.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on the touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use answers while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the Lion of Ritesh Ashar from Shogun Capital. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, sir. Am I audible?

Yes, sir. Please go ahead.

Sir, first of all, congratulations on this quarter. We really appreciate the work you're doing in circular economy and appreciate your business. I have a couple of questions today on the business and this quarter, so just give me a moment. So first question is, sir, I would like to know your EBITDA margins for this quarter. I have slightly come off from 18.5%, 19%, and this quarter is around 16%. So I have a couple of questions around this. Firstly, the PCMB mix has improved from, I think, 3% to 9%, which I think should contribute to better EBITDA margins, and while I understand gross margins have not changed much, the possible factor I'm thinking is the steel revenue, which your presentation says the prices have come down. However, the prices of steel have been progressively increasing from, I think, We're getting $800 a ton in October 25 to $1,300 a ton in September 26. So that is one question I have, sir. And second question is, when do we expect the PCMB, the 32,500 tons to be live?

If it's a margin collaboration, we had a much better quarter of the margin-wise previous quarter because of, you know, variety of reasons, some benefit in raw material prices and inventory that we were carrying. Given and I'm pleased to say that we have met those targets, is that mentioned or have I missed something?

I would like to understand on the steel part, it's a small portion, I understand, but I would like to understand how that will take place in the next few quarters or years to come.

You're asking about the PCMB business, right?

No, no, the steel part. Steel. Steelcraft.

Yeah, so steel and, you know, the value addition that we do to some is also shaping up nicely, but it will always be a case for us cycling of tires.

Right, sir. So I'll just push back in line. I have a couple more questions, but I'll take them later. Thank you.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and 1. Participant Zimmer, please press star and one to ask a question now. Next question is from the line of Nikunj Bhanashali from Walford PMS. Please go ahead.

Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, on the capacity front in India tire-crushing business, we have mentioned that our capacity would be rising to about 235,000 tons. Can you just help me, like, where are we increasing this capacity, and what is the timeline? Are we, how are we moving on that timeline?

Thank you. You know, everything will be combined at one common, you know, fully integrated complex. So, that's where we shall be working on that. And in addition to that, globally, we are also expanding our operations in Saudi Arabia, which will add close to 24,000 tons of tire recycling capacity. So, that's how we have planned the roadmap for the next three years.

Right. We have mentioned it by FY27. Fy27 and so that is what my question was that our capacity should increase to 2,35,000 by Fy27 and Saudi Arabia we have just started the construction would go on and other places also the plant is yet to develop. So how are we adding capacity in the current year is what my question is.

Yeah, so FY27 estimated what you are reading 235,000. Yes, we have, you know, we are in the mid of starting our, you know, construction activities in the Saudi Arabia, which we have added to this one. And, you know, that is slightly disturbed because of this West Asia conflict. So, that is in pipeline, but the further expansion in India will happen in the completely new greenfield project.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's it from my side.

Thank you. Participants, you may please press star and 1 to ask a question. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and 1. The next question is from the line of Ashir Shade from Ventura Securities. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, sir. Congratulations for a wonderful set of results this quarter. So, we have been performing consistently over the past few quarters. And so, I wanted to understand what are we doing differently that we can maintain a reasonably stable margin? Well, we see a comparison with other peers in recycling phase. They have taken a hit on the margins due to the geopolitics. So, I wanted to understand that how are we managing sourcing and how is our, basically, our outlook has changed on the sourcing side of things and how are we managing things on that side?

You know, we cannot comment on, you differentiate us from our key to our business. There is no other company in the country which is operating on a pan-India basis. There is no other Indian business also which has gone outside India, that's the way we have gone. Our diversity of running various kinds of feedstock and catering to various, we have communicated this over the last four years. And we will continue to...

Yes, sir, it does, it does. And sir, secondly, I wanted to ask about the progress that is made upon the reclaimed rubber usage in road surfaces. So, is there any approval process that we need to show the durability of road with Reclaim Rubber, any test that we need to perform or any regulatory approval process?

So, firstly, to clarify, Reclaim Rubber does not question on approvals and consent. You know, Grum Rubber Modified Betumen is now more than two decades-old concept. Validations have already happened.

And the new plant that we have acquired, so can you give us a basic outline of the product mix, or is that still not confirmed yet?

So we have acquired land, not a plant. That land has been acquired in Andhra Pradesh to build a new greenfield facility, We undertake tire recycling, both for top and back plant, and within this 40 acres, we will...

Okay, so fair enough. Thank you for answering my question, and good luck for the future.

You're welcome. Thank you.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may ask questions by pressing star and 1 now.

Participants, you may please press star and 1 to ask a question.

The next question is from the line of the year, Ram, from 361 Capital. Please go ahead.

Hi, sir. Thank you for taking the question. Sir, could you please let me know how much is the EPR income generated?

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Ram. Can you please speak a bit louder?

Sure. Can you hear me now? Yes, yes. Sir, can you let me know how much is the EPR income generated during Q2? Okay, and could you help me with the last quarter's number, sir? If you don't mind, but, and my second question is, the Saudi land of 24,000 tons, which is expected to start construction by the end of this calendar year, do we, are we on track, or do we see any slight delay in this?

The land is a square meter and 24,000 tons to go, actually. We are just waiting for, you know, the situation there to stabilize to some extent. It's already allotted. We know who the contractors will be. We have not yet made any advances or released any payment. We thought it prudent to wait and see for things to settle, and that is what we are doing. We are at least one person permanently based there now to give us first-hand information of what's happening on the ground. But we are yet to release any advances or work orders for the construction of the facility simply because of...

On this Panipat plant where the state government of Haryana wants to acquire, so if that is going to happen, then where do we plan to shift this machinery, If you can help us understand how long it will take.

Sure. So, Panipat facility, as I mentioned in my opening comments, is our oldest facility, you know, facility where we are only making crumb rubber and MRP. We do not do reclaim there. We do not do any other activity. Also, the entire plastics business, which is a reshacking business based in North India, is not on this premise. It is at different locations. So, you know, we don't expect any major disruption to our work. It's a very small plant. I think within three to four months, we can move it, shift it, and continue with our operations. But like I said, we are, you know, continuing to represent to the state government on this topic because it's a running factory, and the land they have expressed need to take also for industrial purposes. So, in our view, it actually does not make any sense why you would take factory-blowing people for industrial purposes. If it was for... I'm confident that, you know, we can... Like I said, it's a very small factory, less than two acres. We can...

Last question. How do you see this recovered carbon black scaling up? I know, I guess, in the last con-call, you have told about TPU and RCD contributing to 7% to 10% of the upline. Does this still hold? Or if you can please correct me on this number.

So on the PCMB business, I think we are applying our historical knowledge of et cetera within our group.

And this last question, if I may, it's a nation state, I understand, but this Andhra Pradesh facility, what are the expected asset terms that we are looking at?

Sorry, which facility are you asking for?

So, the Andhra Pradesh facility that is about to come up, I know it's early stage, but if you can guide us on the asset terms and broad-based numbers.

It can be exactly in line with our current ratios, because, you know, whatever we are doing already, this is just doing more of that. So, it will be, you know, CapEx to sales ratio is about 3x.

Okay. Understood. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mihir Vora from Equera Securities. Please go ahead.

Yeah. Hi. Thank you for taking my question. And congrats on the good set of numbers, sir. So, just one clarification question here. Broadly, what I understand is, see, in terms of our raw material which we source from outside, freight is a very important part of it. And currently, if we see the freight prices have been moving, the move has been very steep. So, how does the price mechanism work here? Are we able to pass on the prices to the end customers? Or is there some kind of a lag here? Can you just explain, throw some color onto the pricing mechanism here with the customer?

Sure. I think we have...

Okay, got it, sir. And like, first half has been very strong in terms of margins also we have managed well. So, second half expectation also continues to be the same, or are we seeing some kind of inflation due to which the second half can be on a lighter side relative to first half in terms of margins?

See, we have consistently maintained and delivered EBITDA margins of 18%. I see that to be irrespective of, you know, what is happening on these...

Sure. And, sir, lastly, on your Chile investment, like, what would be the total amount of investment going there, and what is our rational way in going into those markets?

I'm confident that we will do something very interesting there, but I would like to give you more details of that over the next few months, once we have a better handle on it.

Sure.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kresh Jens from the Farset Managers. Please go ahead.

Yeah, hi, I hope I'm audible. First of all, congratulations on a good Q2 and first half, and I hope this performance continues. So, just wanted some clarity on the capacity. If I'm not wrong, the FY26 India capacity was 185,000 tons per annum, and you plan on increasing which is still 235. And if I'm not, just correct me if I'm wrong here, but right now, even in H2, after H2, the capacity is still 185. So, we wanted to get a breakup of this extra 50,000 tons per annum as to where you are planning to increase this and what kind of products are you adding. Or this is rather say that you are adding capacity to these products.

But to total 200, going forward, like we have in close to 24,000 bottlenecking has been new, fresh investment what we are planning for this all will take us to the, you know, the plant.

Shasha, but that's for the coming years where Andhra capacity additions will start maybe a bit later, maybe from FI 28 or 29. But if I refer to page 11 of your PPT, the India capacity, what you're expecting is 235. So the extra 50,000 tons per annum just wanted to get an understanding what kind of capacity that you're adding, just to the shop on this coming six months. Even excluding the Saudi capacity of 24,000, that's still another 26,000 times per annum. This could be a breakup of that, please.

The clarity that we can give you on this today is that we have done some de-bottlenecking at our existing plants to add maybe 135 without setting up a new plant. We were counting on Saudi to have happened till now, but that is delayed for obvious reasons. South Africa, I believe, will touch about 10,000 in this financial year itself. So that is an addition to the overall capacity. But Saudi is delayed. We should have already been in February. And I think what we are now doing, exhausted and built much larger than any of our facilities. Our single largest facility right now is in 15 acres of land, whereas we are now taking 40 acres to build capacity here.

And we expect- Sir, that answers my question. Another question I had regarding the future CAPEX after FI27. You've planned for 250 crores from Andhra Pradesh and another 100 crores, sorry, 50 crores from Hottam. So that's 300 crores. Wanted to get an understanding of how it will be funded, whether it will be through debt or you're raising money or it will be through internal Sure.

So, Andhra, the 250 crores, we have, it's going to be over three years. So, we have sufficient time, I think, to decide on the, you know, fundraiser will be funded. We have all options. We are comfortable.

Just a final question from my side. You mentioned that even TP BuildTech facilities are included in this 250 crore CAPEX. Since it won't exactly reflect on our banner sheet. I just wanted to get an understanding how much is the split for Tinarabhar and TP BuildTech in this 250 crore.

I'm sorry, there was a little audio disturbance. Fine. Can you repeat your question?

So, yeah, as I was saying, since TPBuildTech is an associate, the capex near TPBuildTech won't reflect in our balance sheet in Pinarabha. So, I just wanted to get the split of the 250 crores, Andhra Pradesh, Pran, how much is the capex for Pinarabha and how much is the capex for TPBuildTech?

This 250 crores is exclusively Pinarabha.

Oh, okay. Okay. That's all. Thank you.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants, we would request to please submit your question to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Shreya and Jen from 3E Capital Services. Please go ahead.

Hello, I'm Audible.

Yes, you are. Please go ahead.

Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations to the team for delivering good set of numbers. Couple of questions, sir. In your annual report, investor presentation, you have constantly mentioned that recovered carbon black would be one of the fastest growing products. And there are other players in India as well that are expanding in this product. So could you please throw some light on this product and margin profile for the same?

The regenerated carbon black is a very interesting material, which is, you know, basically substituting use of virgin carbon black in the industries. For applications, it is an exciting product. Overall, tire paralysis and the RCP business to operate at similar margin profile as our core business, which is around 18%.

Great to hear that, sir. And one last question, what could be the revenue potential of PCMB business at peak utilization?

It's very dynamic. Our number will be too premature. We had, you know, our top line from the PCMB business will be approximately 70 crores, and we believe we'll get very close to that in this financial year. Expand this business to do about 125 crores, at least.

Okay, sir. Thank you, and all the best for the future.

Thank you. Next question is from the Rhinos and Nitpokharna from Equatory Capital. Please go ahead. Am I audible, sir?

Yes, yes, please go ahead.

Sir, could you help us understand that TINAR's current average procurement cost per ton of domestic as well as imported end-of-the-life tires, including the landed cost breakup of imports? How does the company manage it? No, sorry, yeah.

Yeah, no, we don't. We consider it.

Can you help us understand the margin for the TPO, recalled carbon black, and reclaim, if you can?

Around 18%.

Okay, but it's so gross. Product-wise, guidance, you can ask for it. Like, category-wise. Okay. Okay. Got it. Thank you.

Thank you. Participants are requested to please limit your question to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Javed Ansari from MM Capital. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. So, my question is on recovered carbon black. Could you please elaborate on the key issues affecting sales and customer acceptance? Because as per my knowledge, there is a less demand on the supply side of RCD. Is it primary incursion sensitive with input tire quality or feedstock? Like finished product parameters such as contained moisture and ash content also. So, can you please elaborate this?

From the line of Aryan Droshi, from Devitae Investments, please go ahead.

Yeah, can you hear me?

Yes, yes, go ahead, please.

Yeah, so congratulations on a great set of results. My question was on H1 and FY27. The tireless, you know, rose 28%, right, to about 92,000 tons. But the revenue, excluding the TCMB, was only 18%. So, you know, per ton fell about 8%, right? About 33,000 to 30,000. My question was, why did it fall and is the price drop or a product mix change?

I believe it's because of the, you know, because we get to so many sectors and different kind of product categories, it can happen.

Understood. Understood. And the second question on the geopolitical situation, like crude is above like 114 and the freight costs are also high. What has happened to your waste tire cost per ton in Q2 against the Q1? And how much of the tires do you import and can you pass any increase on the customer?

We use a prudent mix of domestic and imported times.

My last question was, how much tires do you import, or can you pass any increase on to the customers?

Yeah, we have a solution. We have also been able to pass on.

Perfect. And one last question on the pyrolysis. I'm sorry if it's asked before, but pyrolysis oil started in Q2, right? And in July, you talked with 7% to 10% back by 27% revenue coming from this business. That is up to 70 crores. So my question was, what was Pyrolysis oil revenue in Q2, and which style companies have approved your recovered carbon black? Like two questions on this.

I don't have the specific number offhand. I can email it to you if you write to our IR and get in direct information.

And it's a 7% to 10% target.

I am very, very sorry to interrupt my request to please free join the queue. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, okay. Next question is from the line of Narendra from Equinova. Please go ahead.

Hi, I'm Audible.

Yes, Narendra, please go ahead.

Yeah, thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a great set of numbers. So, following up on one of the previous participants' question regarding the pyrolysis feedstock, right? So, as per my reading, imported heat stock in pyrolysis is banned. So, is my reading correct, or has there been a change in policy? Okay, so we have the relevant domestic procurement, right?

That's correct.

Okay, okay. And, sir, the pyrolysis segment, are we planning to add more capacity to this, or we are happy with where we are right now? We will add a pyrolysis segment.

We will add a pyrolysis, an RCP plant in our new land that we have acquired in entrepreneurship.

Okay. So, sir, what is the current capacity, and what would be the capacity over there? If you could throw some light. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much, sir. All the best.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumit, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Yes. Hello, sir. I'm a one-year-old.

Sir, I'm a question.

Is it regarding the pricing difference between the recycled car and rag, which is the car and rag being sold by companies like PCDL? What's the difference?

Is there any benefit for the individual tire manufacturers?

Among the largest, basically derived out of the end-of-life tires, which is a sustainable raw material, which is the sustainability goal of these tires. Now, there are many applications wherein these pre-generated carbon back can, for a great amount of, you know, the percentage in certain applications can be adopted, you know, and, uh, parallel, it also extends the cost saving to the user.

Yeah, right.

So, friends, I won't go ask, because in that.

There is. There is. See, what is driven by the crude oil pricing? Sustainable raw material is having quite that much of fluctuation, and it is, you know, at least 30-35% cheaper than the virgin carbon back as of now.

Thank you. Participants, to ask a question, please press star and 1. Next question is from the line of Ashwani Nagas, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Yeah, good evening. First of all, let me congratulate the management. I've been following your investor presentations for the last many quarters, and the way which issue transparency and clarity present is really worth congratulating. I have two questions. One is, if I got your guidance right, you have said you will do 700 crores this year, EBITDA 120, and PAT 70, and you have already done 361 and 36. That is one question. And second is, how much of seasonality is there in your business, and the right way to compare your result is to see quarter or quarter or year on year?

Mr. Nagar, firstly, thank you very much. Regarding seasonality, our business happens in Q4 when it is excessively cold. But otherwise, you can look at us.

Thank you and all the best for your future.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sidri Shashar from Shogun Capital. Please go ahead.

Sir, last two questions from my end. One is on the CAPEX. So, as you mentioned in the presentation, 250 crores are to be, you know, invested in Andhra Pradesh for further capacity expansion. Just to revalidate, your vision 2029 is 1,000 crores revenue. So, this obviously excludes what we are going to spend in Andhra Pradesh, right?

Not necessarily. And they start, they will begin contributing.

So, sir, thank you for that. How much would we have to spend in order to get the additional? So, say this year we are going to be at 700 crores, which is FY27, and we are spending another 50 crores apart from the 250 in Andhra Pradesh. So, we would like to understand if Andhra would be fully, you know, invested and to be fully yielding revenue, what is the revenue potential then of Sinaf?

In our case, I hope that answers your question.

So, actually, I'm not sure because we also have Saudi coming up. We have, I think, Saudi and South Africa both coming up. So, I think they will also be contributing to the revenues and we're spending, I think, about 50-100 crores there as well. So, if you were to take two and a half, three times, that should also add another 300 crores of revenues. So, that's what I wanted to understand. So, for 29, how much more are we spending in order to get the 1,000 dollars of top line?

See, as said to within 27, 29 is very much in our reach. Oman, we will not do any more capex. We are done. That part is running nicely, optimally.

Okay, so what I would expect, I mean, what I think is possible would be 29 would be a little over 1,000 crores, not just baseline 1,000 is what you are saying, right?

It could be 10% plus or minus is always possible and give you, yeah, it will be 1,200 and then below 1,000. You know what I mean?

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. Sir, one final question from Ayan. Sir, this quarter we've had some higher other expenses as well as employees. So, just want to understand What's the change quarter and quarter? I understand you said there were some startup costs in the new ventures, but employees, if you could get a sense, future ready, etc.

So I think we are growing at a clip of about 20% to 30% for some of these projects, little in advance.

Okay, sir, Goddard. Wish you luck for your vision, and I hope it comes true, sir. Good luck.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as that was the last question for today, I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments.

Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. For any further information, please contact our Investor Relations team and GoIndia Advisors. Thank you all for your continued support. Wish you a wonderful day.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of GoIndia Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.