StubHub Holdings, Inc. (STUB) September 2026 Conference Transcript

Okay. All right. With that, I think we're going to kick off our next Fireside Chat. It's my pleasure to welcome StubHub to Communicopia and Technology, your first Communicopia conference as a public company. Your IPO was going on during this conference a year ago, so I remember that well. That's right. Time flies. So that was a year ago now. But let's start. I mean, I think a lot of investors know the brand but don't necessarily know the story of the company. So, Eric, I always try to think about taking a step back before we take a step forward. Why don't you talk a little bit about the journey the company's been on that's brought you to this point?

For sure. No, thanks, Eric, and thanks for having me. Appreciate it. So, yeah, no, it's hard to believe. Subhub sold its first ticket in 2000. So I think it was August, September 2000, right around there that it started. So I've been doing this a long time. And so when it really first started, people have a hard time remembering. There used to be people selling tickets out in parking lots and street corners, and if you wanted to go see a 49ers game, you could go wander around and try and get a ticket in the parking lot from someone. So it was really all about trying to create access for people to make it safe, secure, and make it work. And so that's how it started and really built from there, went on and built a company called Viagogo that was the European and then global version of StubHub. And then we really realized that the opportunity was a lot bigger than just ticket resale, that effectively consumers and fans don't care about a primary or secondary ticket. They just want a ticket to access the events they want to go to. And if you're a seller of a ticket, whether you're a fan, a broker, a seasoned ticket holder, an artist, a venue, you want to reach the largest number of people you can with the best distribution, the best data. And so that was sort of an insight and then went through the adventure of we bought StubHub back from eBay to combine the companies, as you know, Eric. And sort of the thought there was always we could take the company back and find them and really build a global leader where we would restore its growth, restore its leadership share, and throw off the cash flow and improve the margins the way that it should, do that with the core, and then be able to build into the next set, as I say, of sort of open distribution, all tickets, and build an advertising business. So we went ahead and did that, lived through COVID, a lot of other things. I always used to say live events will be the last thing that goes, and hopefully COVID proved that's the one thing that could at least pause it but not stop it permanently. So come back with a vengeance. People love live events, and we're really excited because we've been able to now take the business and grow it, restore the share, throw off cash, and really position ourselves now for this next chapter of what we want to do.

Okay. Okay.

Maybe just one housekeeping matter before we start.

The clock in the front doesn't seem to be working, so I don't know if we could adjust that. That'd be great. Thank you. I just want to keep you on time. Let's pivot from that to talk about the current consumer environment, because as you talked about, this has been a very resilient end market. There's been a lot of debate around the consumer over the last 12, 18 months, K-shaped economy, all these things, but there's been a lot of resilience and a lot of strengths in live events, experiences. Talk a little bit about what you see from the consumer right now in your business.

Sure. Consumers love, love events. So obviously, as I say, it's been sort of a constant across decades now. And it's interesting as we look at it and some of the things we see. One is that there's been this real shift to experiences over buying goods. So if you go on and you look at what people are putting on their Instagram or sharing, it's not about I bought this car. I bought something. I'm at this game. I'm at this Taylor Swift concert. And it's really where people want to be and how they want to live. And that's created a tremendous interest in dynamic and live events. The other thing, Eric, is that following that, because of the explosion of content creators and the internet and whatnot and TikTok, you get more and more content being created that people want to see. So there was like a guy years ago named Matt Reif, who was a comic who started on YouTube, next thing you wake up, he's selling out shows. So you've got this, and now you've got a global phenomenon that we see that basically whether it's BTS coming to the States or you have a global event like the World Cup or artists traveling anywhere, it's really phenomenal how people will spend on events, and it's really that good. And as we like to say also on the sports side with something like football, if you're a Green Bay Packers fan, for example, and you want to go to that game, getting a Packers ticket, you're probably going to cut a lot of things before you cut your Green Bay Packers ticket that you can go without. So all those things are really combined to create what we've seen as a really resilient and phenomenal market that we're in where consumers are just so enthusiastic about going to events.

Speaking of enthusiasm and big events, we have the World Cup here in this part of the world. Talk a little bit not only about the World Cup idiosyncratically and what it did for the business, but more importantly, when you get new users coming to the platform from some big event like that, how should investors be thinking about long-term value that could be created out of that traffic that comes to you?

Yeah, no, that's a great point, Eric. And I think the World Cup particularly is phenomenal, both because it illustrates the specific case of what's exciting about the World Cup and what it meant, but I think also the things that you're alluding to and what it sort of says. So World Cup's obviously a phenomenal event. You've got so many games going on in a short period of time. truly global, people from all over the world coming in. And so the first thing was really exciting for us to provide so much access for people to all of these events, because I remember in 1994, when the U.S. hosted the World Cup prior, there was no StubHub, and I was wandering around outside the Rose Bowl trying to negotiate with someone and hope I could get a ticket. So it was a great illustration of what happens when you can give access to people to go to these events. It was a phenomenal, obviously drove a phenomenal quarter for us, and we grew over 30% and really showed that we would capture that. I think that probably more deeply what you pointed out, Eric, is that it's got much greater knock-on effects, we believe, than just the one time of having a phenomenal event and those results. What do I mean by that? One is that you've now captured all these new users globally and domestically who have now had a great experience with the platform, went to a phenomenal event, they know you, and that's going to help you help us develop that relationship, have people coming back, et cetera. The other thing is it's just a phenomenal proof point for the power of the ticket resale market and how it created access for consumers, and particularly for people to go back globally around the world and say, wow, look, there's like a service like this that we should use that's giving me access to go see these matches go where I want to go when I want to go. And the other thing I noticed that FIFA ran its own open market exchange, which was a great proof point of how that makes a ton of sense for content. So in so many ways, we think it illustrated the power of what our platform can do, not just in the moment of what the economics are for the World Cup, but for what it means going forward.

Okay, understood. So we had results about a month ago, you raised your full year GMS outlook, maintain the EBITDA guide, Talk a little bit about your approach to guiding the financial markets and any key messages you want to leave investors with about the second half of the year relative to the strength you saw in the first half of the year.

So I can explain how we think a bit about guidance, and as my team tells me, I need to comment on what we said then rather than providing guidance now. So as we always think about it, what we're trying to do is obviously give people the best insight to what we believe is reasonable. We have high conviction in to happen so that we're going to do what we say we're going to do. I think if I go back and you look at, as you said, with the guidance, we had originally guided 8% to 10% growth for the year and $400 to $420 million of EBITDA. And so we knew the World Cup was coming, obviously, in that. I think, as we said, the World Cup performed at the high end of what we had expected. So we raised that range 10% to 12% to reflect that. But then people, as you say, well, what about the bottom line? As we expressed on our call, and just to be clear, there were costs associated with the World Cup on the gross margin line in terms of being able to service customers that were more expensive and unique to it, as well as some things around the take rate. So both of those, we believe, were unique to the World Cup, clear out the back end of the year. So as you can see, implicit in that guidance, our margins improve in the back end, and we see that continued margin improvement as it goes. So that's specifically to how we thought about that. More broadly, in terms of one thing I will say about guidance and for people to understand the business, we've always said we think about it on an annual and multi-year pattern. I'm trying to grow as much cash flow per share as I can over the medium to long term. Our business is unique in that there's tremendous consumer demand. There are idiosyncrasies around the supply schedule that we don't control. So what do I mean by that? For example, on sales of when a concert's announced and it goes on sale, we don't control that directly. Sometimes that will happen in November. Sometimes it happens in January. It's not in our control as much, and that can create some spikes in gives and takes. We obviously, when you have the playoffs and the baseball playoffs, if the Dodgers play the Yankees, spoiler alert, that's probably going to be a really good thing in that respect versus other teams playing. And so as a result, we focus much more on over the long term. That continues to go up to the right, but sometimes it'll be a little bit noisy along the way.

Okay, understood. If we go back 18 months ago before you went public, you were in a position where you were making key investments to potentially take share. As we came into this year, you talked about maintaining and possibly growing share, but maybe moderating some of those investments. How do you think about your market share being the leading player in the secondary market relative to either holding that share and whether there's investments or not that need to be made? relative to market share potential for the business over time.

Sure. So that's exactly right, Eric. And as you know, we talked about in 2025, as I mentioned before, when we bought the business that we wanted to restore the share and then grow. And then we believe in this type of marketplace business, you'll be able to grow and then expand your margins. And you get tremendous network effects around that. And so in 2025, we were making investment to finish that off. And believed in 26, we would be able to harvest the benefit of that investment and grow while we continue to expand margins. And so we're very pleased with that. Our relative market share went way up. We're the clear leader. And as you can see for the first two quarters that have been reported, you can see what happened with our margins increasing. And particularly in the second quarter, I think, for those who may have tuned in the earnings before, our sales and marketing, I think we got about 800 bps of leverage on sales and marketing while we were growing. So we thought that demonstrates what our hypothesis was that, you know, the number, I think the number two players, also a public company, they report, I think they actually went backwards in Q2. So it demonstrates that we're able to grow margins while growing. Let me, just the last thing to what you mentioned is, well, why is that? How does that happen? You know, how are you able to do things? And I think, again, when you have a leadership, what do we mean by that? What elements do we have? We have the leading brand by far. We have the best depth and liquidity of supply, which goes everything across the board from fan tickets, professional sellers, direct issuance. We have international coverage. No one else has that. We believe we have the best product and technology and ability to convert. All these things then feed into one another that give you the ability to get better and better. And as you get scale, you should be able to grow and increase margins, which is what we've been able to do. Okay, understood.

One of the biggest debates around this conference through the first day and a half has been about some of the shifting changes in search traffic, agentic commerce, where the world is going. And I think a lot of companies have talked about partnering with the LLM agent companies, but at the same time building their own AI strategies around when somebody comes direct. direct. When you think about the landscape and how it's shifting and changing, how are you positioning and you and the team positioning the company for elements of new forms of traffic that could come to you, but also elements of investing in the platform to improve conversion and personalization overall?

For sure. So obviously what's going on with AI is phenomenal and amazing and the changes that will bring. So let me give you the context for how we think about why we believe we have tailwinds and where we fit with AI, and then get to your specifics about what that means for some of the traffic elements. So first thing is, look, we're very thankful and glad to be, as I say, in the live events business. We're very long live events. We believe before everyone gets plugged into the matrix, the last thing to go will be going to the Super Bowl, going to concerts, and people really love that connection, which is great. We also run a very complex supply chain marketplace that basically means there's a lot of moving pieces and elements that come in with a product that's fulfilled at the end, and that's not something that an LLM model is going to do for you. So for all those reasons, we think we're well-positioned. Now, there's a ton of benefits that come, which are tailwinds beyond that, Eric, and you alluded to some of them. One is, as with everything, you can take tremendous costs out of the system, which many people can do, which is great, which is all that complexity around fraud, around customer service, around delivery, around the rest of it that you can do, which is a great leverage point. More excitingly, I think, is what you alluded to, two things. Let's talk about where you're going to reach customers coming in and what that experience is going to be for them at the site because those are the two things that we think are pretty exciting. So the first, you mentioned some of the top of the funnel stuff. So again, what's interesting to us is that it's creating another channel in addition to traditional search in Google and other things like that where you can get customers in and have an opportunity to shine. And so while Google searches continue to be phenomenal and we haven't seen any changes there, we want to be where the consumer is going to be in the future. And that's why we've been pioneering things and working as publicly released with some of the LLM models. And we view it, again, as just another top-of-funnel experience where they're going to help direct people, but then ultimately you've got to hand it off in a business like ours to us, just like they do with search, to fulfill, to have the ticket, to have the specific data to do all of that, which is important. So we think that's going to be a great channel that can be very additive, and it's nascent today. The second thing which you allude to, which we think is very exciting, is we have all the vertical domain data and relationships. And so we believe that we can take, you know, Eric, if you come, your experience of buying a ticket through us can be radically different and improved because we know everything not just about you but everyone else, the historical data, the pricing, where to sit, how you might want to interact. You can imagine even an agentic experience ultimately at StubHub where we can help you through it. So we think there's just a tremendous amount of opportunity with what's going on with that. Again, all these things are nascent, but very exciting.

Okay. All right. I want to talk about two more medium to longer-term initiatives that the companies talked about. Maybe next we'll turn to open distribution. It clearly suggests an ambition to be sort of earlier in what we'll call the ticketing value chain. You know, can you give us an update on this initiative and how you think that initiative evolves in the years ahead?

Sure. So let me, on the open distribution, let me maybe level set, like, what is it and then why we have such conviction that it's inevitability and something that we can really capitalize on. So the first thing is all it is really simply put is that, again, if you're a seller of a ticket and you're a team, you're an artist, you're a league, you're a theater, you're no different than any other seller until you could be a fan, a season ticket holder, a broker. You have a bunch of tickets. You want the best distribution. You want the best data to sell. And therefore, you should sell over the StubHub platform and that we can allow you to sell on a non-exclusive basis where we don't charge you. You go in. What does that look like? That's the same as what we do on our marketplace for 20 years. If you're a seller of a ticket, you could be a broker, a fan, a seasoned ticket holder. It's no different. So when a team like the Dodgers called up and they wanted to sell tickets directly over StubHub and we made that available, they're basically just like any other seller. They happen to have a lot of Dodgers tickets, and that's what they're selling. And so we think that if you are someone who has content, much less a perishable good, that this type of open distribution is inevitable. Because remember, it's non-exclusive. We don't charge you. That's better for the consumer. allows people to compete for the best solution, and it's actually what a lot of regulators and people want with an open system. So that's why we have a lot of conviction. We think that that's an inevitable – that is the way the world will look. That is the way that it's going. We've made tremendous strides with partners that we have mentioned, like the Dodgers, the Yankees, and others. And then the big thing that we sort of realized, Eric, and that we shifted in our approach, we had originally come at it very much like a business development-led model where you'd sign deals with people like the Yankees. It's sort of, again, I'm an older person these days, so I remember when Yahoo was the advertising leader and they had a biz dev-led strategy. They'd sign General Mills and Ford Motor Company and Procter & Gamble. And then there was a company called Google that wasn't doing that, that was smaller than them in advertising, but sort of was able to productize sort of Google AdWords and the rest is history. So we're very focused on making it seamless, productizing it so it's turnkey for people to use as they wish. and we think that's what we're working on and we believe that has a lot of promise.

Turning to the second medium to long-term would be the advertising opportunity. You're putting in place a lot of the building blocks that are typically needed to build and scale these type of offerings. Talk a little bit about what you're building, what the early feedback or how you think about sellers aligning with this kind of offering longer term and what it can mean for the business.

So that's on advertising. One of the big things is sponsored listings, which Eric is talking about, where you have a seller and you say, OK, you have a listing. We want to highlight that listing to the right consumers for you. We'd like you to pay for that. And that's a targeted advertising. This is a model which is, as all of you know, is very well trodden and proven out in many marketplaces. And whether it's Amazon or eBay or Uber, whomever it may be who's doing this. And so it's a very natural thing. What we've seen is that the sellers who sell on the platform have a high amount of interest in this product. We have a very targeted audience. They've got a perishable good, all of that. So what are the key things that you have to get right with the product before we want to scale it because we want to get it right? So you have to really get the auction dynamics correct. What are you putting in front of which customer? Because if you think of, like, the two-by-two matrix, you could be in the make-a-lot-of-money-bad customer experience, or you can make in the, you know, generate-a-lot-of-contribution-great-customer experience, and then you can be in the other buckets, which are really bad. So I think, you know, what we're trying to do is get it right. so that we believe we can do something that's additive to the consumer experience, really targets what Eric wants, is in a great way, and actually has a great economic model that works for the seller of the ticket in a good way. You need to get that technology right, you get that, you get the product right, and then you can scale it going from there. And then once you can scale it, obviously, as we've talked about, that is very high margin revenue that comes down to the business and a lot of things that can be used to enhance the product for our consumers. So we're excited about it.

And then one of the things just to make sure folks have the right messaging coming out of Q2, open distribution, advertising opportunity, these are things you're building towards as potential aspects of the business over the medium to long term. But those are not things you think people should be thinking about as drivers of the business over the next couple of quarters and things like that. Just put a timing framing on it.

No, that's correct. And we've tried to be clear on that. Again, I want to be very clear with expectations and whatnot. As we're working on these things, we've said we've laid out the guidance That does not, you know, we're working on these initiatives. We've got some cost of those initiatives, but that's not stuff that people should be valuing and putting in today. And we obviously understand that, you know, we take the position. We want to work to get it right, work to prove it, be able to demonstrate the proof points, and then people can put a value on it rather than, you know, trusting us. So that's how we're going about it.

Okay, super clear. Maybe just a few honing in on the margin structure of the company. You talked about the efficiency you demonstrated in sales and marketing in this most recent quarter. Talk to us a little bit about how you think about efficiency in sales and marketing, given where you are from market share standpoint. Most marketplace businesses I cover get to a certain level of market share, and then there's a lot of efficiency because they gain just a lot of flywheel operating momentum. Talk a little bit about sales and marketing as a lever longer term.

Yeah, for sure, Eric. So, again, as we've said, the key thing, as you've alluded to, if you're running a good marketplace business and you have a leading position, that should show up you have a great chance to expand your margins, and you have a great chance to do that through sales and marketing, through operating leverage. As you can see, even in what we've guided towards for the year, I think implicit in that guide is the margins continuing to go up in the back end of the year and that we would be showing growth for the year with the margins going up. So that's what we want to do and what we believe we will do. in terms of, again, how do we think about why is that? Why are you able to get those benefits? A couple of different ways. It's really about you're more efficient through the channels that you're paying on, right? And you're able to get more direct traffic, which is, you know, new people coming and repeat people coming direct. All those things sort of go with the flywheels, right? So as you have more selection, more liquidity, better product, better use of AI to target, you're going to be able to convert better. You're going to be more effective in getting those leads. That's going to help on that piece. And then on the second piece, as you get better and better at giving people that experience and then moving them over to the app and moving them over to come direct, you're going to get, you know, more implicit direct repeat. And so that's what you'll see coming through it. And then ultimately you also just get more marketing, more operating leverage as well. So we think we can follow in the footsteps of marketplaces that have proven that you can, you know, grow and expand margins at the same time and end up in a pretty positive place ultimately over the long haul.

Okay. Maybe just one or two follow-ups here on margins. You highlighted the issue in Q2 with respect to the costs that were implied in the World Cup, given the nature of that event. Just double-click on that for us in terms of what you saw that was tied to the World Cup in particular and how should investors think about potentially volatility around bigger events like that longer term where you want to sell a certain volume of tickets. There's maybe a pricing dynamic around those tickets, and it just maybe makes the margin dynamic a little less linear than what some folks would expect.

So there's two things around the World Cup that we talked about in the cost structure. One, which is very unique to the World Cup. So one was on the gross margins where you've got to basically deal with sort of trying to get people replacement tickets and deal with sort of a system, which I'll talk about, that was unique to the World Cup that was a very challenging system to solve. And the other is just sometimes the take rates will come down a bit because if you have very high-value transactions, that can sometimes happen for high-value events. The first one, what I mean by that and why it was unique, is that the Federation set up its own system for ticket resale, which had never been used before and was like a de novo one-time thing. And it's very rare that that happens. And they had a lot of operational challenges with that. And obviously it's our responsibility to make sure that our fans get taken care of and to work through it. So we think that was a very sort of unique one-off thing to the World Cup. And so that explains that. And then basically if I was to think about it again, that's why going forward, if you look at the back half of the year implicit and what we guided to at the end of Q2, the margins go up, and a piece of that is it will solve the gross margins and the little bit of noise in the take rates.

And then, look, you've clearly laid out a strategy here that's very much emphasized as growth and where you think you could take the platform medium to long-term, what's the broader, longer-term messaging to investors around making sure there's balance between growth and margin trajectory in the business?

Yeah, I think the way I would think about it, Eric, is that what I'm trying to do or certainly aspire to do as founder and owner of the business is, as I said, I want to generate more cash flow per share over the medium to long-term. That's what I want to do. So as I think about how you allocate against that, Um, you're obviously looking to, you'll make investments if they're going to generate more cash down the line, right? So that can be in terms of investing in a certain product and investing in sort of, um, you know, the long-term value, uh, long-term, uh, value, uh, lifetime value of the customer and so forth. Um, I think all that being said, as we said, the nature of sort of a marketplace business that we have is the great thing is that you're able to grow and expand your margins over time. Um, and in the core business, you're able to do that. And it's a very healthy cash generator that throws off a ton of cash. And so you get a lot of those natural benefits. I think you can look at what other scale leading marketplaces have done over time and see how that usually plays out in terms of the cash creation and margins over the long haul. And then I think where we are and where we will invest in other things, you know, we will aspire to keep people informed over time as we do that and how that's progressing. And if investments don't make sense, then we'll halt them. And if they do, we'll continue them. Okay.

Probably the other big debate we get into with investors is just how the regulatory landscape might change and evolve over time, both in terms of the primary market and the secondary market for ticketing. Would love to get your take on what you see as the current regulatory landscape, how it might evolve in the years ahead, and some of the key points you want to leave investors with about your view of how your business fits into the evolution of the regulatory landscape.

No, thank you for asking that, Eric. And I think one of the things that I think is not well understood is sort of what our regulatory environment is and what is reality out there today. So I want to sort of walk you through how we think about it, and then I'll be very clear about like what's empirically going on versus just like, you know, my opinion and how we think things will play out. So first thing is that, remember, when we started StubHub, it's all about creating access for the consumer, getting rid of fraud. It's very pro-consumer. It's pro, you know, what a legislator or regulator is basically trying to do. It's come a long way in that it's legal to resell everywhere. People understand that. And generally, when you talk about the broader thing and you look at the things with Ticketmaster and the DOJ, they're trying to push for more choice, more open networks, all things that overlap with what we're talking about with open distribution. That's all positive. Where does the noise come in? and this is where I want to be clear, is there are proposals out there where they've looked particularly now at concerts, these high-end concerts, like a Taylor Swift, and they say, oh, no, we don't want professional sellers hoovering up a bunch of tickets, marking up these high-end tickets, and selling them for a lot more money. That's the concept. And so some of these people said, well, why don't we have price caps? Okay? And so that's sort of what the issue is. And so let me explain to you why that has not been successful and what's actually been going on with that, and then what the ultimate exposure to our business is. So let's take the exposure point first. So if you look at it, if we just look, and we've talked about this on our calls before, high-end concert tickets bought by professional sellers, sold in a markup across all our jurisdictions, it's about 10% of our GMS. That's 10% of our business, that's what drops. That is across all jurisdictions that we're in. That's if everywhere, if that law came to pass everywhere, it's about 10%. Not helpful. It's not what we want. I'll explain, don't believe that's what's going to happen, but we just want to boundary it. So it's not like, you know, we're not talking about something existential. The second piece I want to say is, well, what's actually going on with these price caps? Because there are things reported where it's like we've heard even a year ago, oh, there's price caps in the UK. There's price caps in California. All these things are happening. That's not the case. So what's happened is Washington, D.C., so I'll stick with the states, Washington, D.C. passed a rule that they want to put in a price cap in 27 just for concert tickets, just in District of Columbia. There's one other state, I think Vermont, that has something that's got that going on. Those are not obviously consequential surfaces to us. It was extrapolated by some people to say, oh, well, that's coming in California, New York, and the U.K., and in fact, just the state of play is New York price cap proposal failed over the summer. That's gone. California, there were people who were trying to push a price cap proposal that died in committee this summer. No price cap in California. In the U.K., we heard people saying, oh, my God, the U.K. has actually put in a price cap and done something to ticketing. Again, what happened is some government ministers said, hey, we think that that we should look into putting in a price cap but they have to go through a whole process which includes something over there called the king's speech last may did not make it into the king's speech so it's a couple years from here to see what happens so i say all that just to to summarize the two things which are what i'd say are sort of knowable to us our surface for these things that are in play is about 10 and the actual state of play is what i told you it is in California, New York, the UK. That's true. And then I've given you my, our sort of outlook that these price caps as we educate people, the reason they don't go forward is they usually lead to fraud, right? They lead to a black market, less access for consumers, not very helpful. That's why we believe they have not been successful when we educate and will not be. That's an opinion. People can disagree with that, but the boundary of sort of the sizing and the actual facts on the ground are what they are.

Okay. Understood. Very clear. We only have you for a few more minutes, so I want to end on capital allocation and just understanding your true north around this. There's the leverage you have on the balance sheet. There's obviously something you referenced earlier, which is the level that EBITDA drops to free cash flow that gives you a lot of optionality of what to do with cash. How do you think about leverage? How do you think about capital returns? How do you think about making sure you're striking the right balance With growth investments, it's a broader sort of open question on capital allocation and your goals.

Sure, that makes sense. And again, so if you think through the lens of, again, like trying to generate more cash flow per share over time, that means either you need to generate more cash flow because you're growing the business in an intelligent way, right? Or you're paying down your debt, which is siphoning off cash flow, or you're retiring shares. That's ultimately over time, like how you achieve that. So the way we've looked at it, as you mentioned, Eric, is that we've got debt. And so when we delevered the company, I think one of the things is we've paid down $1.1 billion of debt in the last 12 months. We paid down $100 million. That includes $100 million in July, $100 million in May. So our leverage statistics went from about 4.5 times adjusted EBITDA at the end of 25 to three times now. So our balance sheet's in a very good position, we think, to give us flexibility for what we want to do. And so now we're in a very good place to think through again where we can invest in the business. And then over time, when the time is right, obviously you can think about buying back stock. But whatever makes the most sense over the medium to long term is how we think about it.

Well, first of all, thanks for doing the conversation. I really enjoyed it. Hopefully come back next year for a second Communicopia. And please join me in taking StubHub for being part of the conference.