Operator
Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the SANS Fourth Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen-only mode. We will open the floor for your questions and comments following the presentation. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at SANS. Sarah, the floor is yours.
Thank you very much. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO, Dr. Dumont, our President and COO, Dr. Wilfrid Wong, Executive Vice Chairman of SANS China, and Grant Chung, CEO and President of SANS China and EDP of Asia Operations. Today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements. We'll be making those statements under the same perfect term of provision of federal security laws. The company is actually able to make different materials from the full-time subject of forward-looking statements. In addition, we will discuss non-GAAP measures. Reconciliation to the most comparable GAAP measures are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that presentation during the call. Finally, for the Q&A, we ask those with interest to please post one question and one follow-up. We might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. This presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.
Thanks, Dan. Thank you for joining us today. We'll begin with Macau. The Macau market appears to grow, gaining revenue to the market grew 6% in Q4 of 2024 when compared to the fourth quarter of 2023. Mass gaining revenue grew 5% in the quarter compared to one year ago. We believe the Chinese economy will grow and the cow market will grow as well. Gross gaining revenue in the cow succeed $30 billion in 2025 and continue to grow. The scale and quality of the assets we've built are second to none. And our assets position enables us to grow faster than the cow market in every second. Our business strategy remains clear and constant. We are investing high-quality assets that also have scale. We've designed our capital investment programs to ensure that we will be the market leader in the years ahead. Our approach will enable us to grow fast in the long term, grow our share of EBITDA in the Cal market, and generate industry-leading returns for invested capital. While we're so confident of future success in a competitive market like Macau, our assets give us a strong advantage. The scale and quality of the room inventory coupled with our retail, dining, and entertainment enables us to tailor our offerings to attract the most profitable customers. Turning to our results in the calendar, we will have a solid EBITDA for the quarter, despite having 20% fewer rooms available in CodeTai than we will have once London is completed by the second quarter of 2025. We opened the London Grand Casino in the last week of September and offered 315 London Grand suites during the quarter. We will introduce more Lunders suites during the next two quarters. Today, as the Lunar New Year begins, we have approximately 1,000 Lunders suites and rooms in service. The full complement of 1,500 suites and 905 rooms will be in service by May of 2025. Finally, SEL continues to lead the market in gaming and non-gaming revenue and market share of EBITDA. Our objective is to capture high-value, high-margin tourism. We have a unique competitive advantage in terms of the scale, quality, and diversity of product offerings. Upon completion for the Londoners in May, our product advantage will be more pronounced than ever. Moving on to Singapore, another strong quarter of $537 million in adjusted property EBITDA. Mass gaining is thought we reached $746 million a quarter, reflecting a 71% growth in the fourth quarter of 2019 and 28% growth in just one quarter a year ago. The results of Ray Bay Sands reflect the positive impact on our capital investment program and the growth of high-value tourism. The growing appeal of Singapore as a destination is enhanced by the robust entertainment and lifestyle of that calendar. As we complete the balance of our investment programs in the 1st half of 2025, there will be considerable runway for growth. Thanks for joining the call. I'll turn to Patrick before we go to the Q&A.
Thanks, Rob. There's something I want to mention before we get started in the details of the quarter. the fourth quarter of tourism to the Macau market was impacted by the celebration and events in December that marked the 25th anniversary of the special administrative region of Macau's reunification with China. Macau EBITDA was $571 million for the quarter. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been higher by $22 million. When adjusted for lower than expected hold in the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macau portfolio of properties, excluding the Londoner, would have been 35.1% or down 230 basis points compared to the fourth quarter of 2023. Our turnover rents in Macau were $27 million lower in the fourth quarter of 2024 than the prior year fourth quarter. Our margins at the Londoner were directly impacted by the reduction in elder room inventory during the quarter. We will have approximately 20% of rooms and suites on Kotai by May of this year and approximately 47 percent more rooms at the Londoner as we complete the Londoner grand renovation. Margin at the Venetian was 36.7 percent, while margin at the Plaza and Four Seasons was 37.2 percent. We continue to expect margin improvement as our revenues grow, as we use our scale advantages to better address the unrated play in the market, and as we focused on managing our costs, including refining our reinvestment rate and optimized cash flow. As Rob mentioned, we are nearing the completion of our London Grand Renovation Program. Upon completion, our competitive position will be stronger than ever. We expect meaningful EBITDA growth and margin expansion in the future. Turning to Singapore, MBS's EBITDA came at $537 million. Assuming expected to hold our rolling play, our EBITDA would have been approximately $2 million lower. The strong financial results reflect the impact of high-quality investment in market-leading products and growth in high-value tourism. Had we held as expected in our rolling play segment, MBS's EBITDA margin would have been 47.2%. We will have substantially completed our $1.75 billion reimbursement program at MBS by May of this year. We are still in the initial stages of realizing the benefits of these new products. We expect growth in the future as we continue to attract high-value tourism to Singapore with our enhanced product offering. Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders, we repurchased $450 million of LVS stock during the quarter and paid our recurring quarterly dividend of $0.20 per share. Our annual dividend will increase to $1 per share or $0.25 per quarter for the 2025 calendar year. In addition, we purchased approximately $250 million of SANS China stock during the quarter and in January of 2025, bringing LBS equity and trust in SANS China to approximately 72.3%. We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's capital return program to increase returns to shareholders in the future. Thanks for joining the call today. Now let's take questions.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the floor is now open for questions. If you would like to enter the queue to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad now. If listening on speakerphone today, please pick up your handset to provide optimum sound quality. Also, we ask each participant to limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Please hold a moment while we pull for questions. And the first question today is coming from Carlos Santorelli from Deutsche Bank. Carlos, your line is live. Hey guys, thank you.
Patrick, obviously you guys have been active in the SANS China stock, and when you look at kind of the valuation of that stock today, coupled with the announcement of the dividend increase, is your thinking changed at all around the way you allocate capital, perhaps maybe being more advantageous looking forward with respect to the SEL shares?
Look, I think we really believe in the SEL story. We've been big investors in growth in Macau for years. And if you look at our investment program, it's designed to grow our business and our strategic advantages there. And we've been investing to create growth for 2025 and beyond in every segment. Look, our view is that we want to execute against our massive asset base there. And I think for us, the way we show that is not only through growth, but also through acquiring more shares. We want to own more of SEL and you'll see us be active in the market over time to do that.
We really believe in SEL. we think there's real value in the future and owning the shares there and so we're gonna we're gonna exercise against that thesis very good thank you and then if i could just follow up as it relates to mbs there's clearly been you know a lot of change in the property all the the rumor models all the things that you've been doing over much of 2024 and in the fourth quarter you know clearly across the mass side whether it's it's drop revenue on the table side drop revenue on the slot side, you guys saw a very nice acceleration of year-over-year growth when looked at relative to the 3Q. How much of that do you think is, I don't know, maybe exogenous or maybe, I don't want to say one time, but a result of some other things going on in the market versus how much of that is the successes of kind of the capital you put in and the fruits of that?
Well, one thing I would say, Carl, it's not a one-time event. It's an ongoing event that keeps accelerating i think you're right it's a good observation i look at these numbers non-rolling win and slot win is a three billion dollar run rate that's pretty astounding i think it's a few things that are favor one is a very strong market but also a great asset to come into fruition so when you invest heavily in something that's that good a market you get the right thing right place right time it all comes together it's not a one-time thing nor is peaked. The final product will be there this summer. It's an amazing place. I think you've been there recently, and I think it just keeps on going. But you're right. The acceleration year on year is truly exceptional. But I think we're just at the beginning of a huge growth surge in Singapore. It's not going to end.
We're in the right place, right time with the right product. Hey, one thing I do want to say is the key thing about Singapore, and you've heard Rob and me and the rest of the team talk about this on many quarter calls. The key thing about Singapore is about the quality of tourism. It really is an unbelievable market in terms of the value of the tourists showing up there. And we've been very focused on investment in the highest quality of assets to match that high quality of tourism. I think for us, this quarter validates the investment thesis and the growth that's available to us in this market because of the strength of what's going on as a catchment area. And so when you look at Singapore as a market, it's incredibly strong and desirable. There's a growing high net worth population. There's growing high-value visitation. There's a lot of business activity there. And there's continued investment in strong tourism infrastructure. So from that standpoint, it's a very unique market, and we really believe in it. We think it's the highest quality cash flow in our industry.
Thank you both very much.
Thanks, Carlo. Thanks, Carlo.
Operator
Thank you. The next question will be from Robin Farley from UBS. Robin, your line is live.
Thanks very much for taking my question. This is RPNet for Robin. I know you don't talk about the current quarter, but I was wondering if you could take a few minutes, you know, to give us your overall take on the Chinese consumer, what you are seeing in terms of bookings for the upcoming holiday. And more importantly, do you feel there are macro indicators that the base consumer could return to pre-COVID levels in Macau this year? How do you see that recovery? And then I have a quick follow-up.
So, I think first off, I think we're still talking about a $30 billion GGR market. It's the largest market in the world. It's been growing. It looks like it's going to continue to grow for the receivable future. We believe very strongly. Let's try to do this market. We've been investing into it for that reason. I think it's very hard for us to point to a specific indicator of the Chinese consumer that is an indicator for our business since we represent such a small level of penetration into our core market, which is China. And so from our standpoint, we sort of look at the market. Would we do better with a stronger Chinese economy? I think that's an easy thing to say yes to. But I think overall, we're very happy with the direction of our business, our investment. And hopefully, as things progress over time, we'll be the beneficiary of a stronger Chinese economy and see our investments produce more cash flow. Grant or Wilfred, do you guys have any other comments regarding this question?
I think the GGR, and you can see throughout last year in 2024, has been very resilient. And I think if you look at the premium mass side of the business, very strong throughout the year. And you saw October, we had the best month since the pandemic for GGR. yes there are other parts of the consumption universe which are much weaker than than what gaming has been and you see some of that reflected in our retail business where the retail sales were down against the prior year whereas for the Macau market the GGL was still up six percent as Rob reference in his opening remarks thank you one thing is that our actions speak loud and we keep
investing investing and buying into mccawe we believe in mccawe we believe in china and we believe the return of the base mass as well as the continuous strength of premium mass will will grow we're big believers we wouldn't be putting billions of dollars on the ground we didn't believe so yes we do believe it's going to come back and we don't we can't pinpoint or handicap at date or time, but I think as Patrick alluded to, it's still a $30 billion market in the face of a very difficult economic environment macro. So we believe in it. It's going to come back. We just don't know when, but our actions are going to be very loudly, billions of dollars investment, and we keep investing in it. So we believe in the returns around the corner and will come.
Thank you all. I just have a quick follow-up. Could you share your lady's thoughts on New York license if iGaming, you know, could be legalized there two years into construction, let's say, as an assumption? Some of your thoughts on how that changes the return profile of a potential casino in that market?
You've asked and answered my concerns. First, I believe in New York is a very strong market, which is under consideration of this company for a long time. However, the iGaming possibility, to me, in any market that has land-based gambling and has sports betting, iGaming seems inevitable. And so I think you have to agree with your comment that sometimes during the construction stage, you could be faced with iGaming competitor, which eludes the value of the product. So that's our conundrum. And you said it well. The results coming out of neighboring states like New Jersey or Pennsylvania or as far away as Michigan underscore that concern. So you've asked an answer to the question. Great market. We'd like to be there. The caveat is, how do you deal with the ongoing threat, which appears to me to be inevitable in a lot of states, especially as it has land-based properties coupled with sports betting? I don't know why you wouldn't have, I gave you some time in the future. So that's our concern as we look at that market. You're absolutely correct.
Operator
Thank you. The next question will be from Sean Kelly from Bank of America. Sean, your line is live.
Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. Robert Patrick, I want to start with just the Londoner. Obviously, some of the disruption timing probably came in a little bit differently than maybe everybody thought. But could you just walk us through your thoughts about kind of ramp up from here and how we should think about it? It's a pretty big margin drag. I think it's pretty understandable given the impact of hotel rooms on margins. But just help us think about maybe your thought process behind how that property should ramp in the next couple of quarters, if you could.
Yeah, so, you know, I think it's really interesting because I have to hand it to the team in Macau. They did a phenomenal job this quarter being disciplined in our reinvestment and actually generating this much EBITDA with that many rooms out. You know, we are a room inventory-driven reinvestment model. So we base our reinvestment on the scale of our ecosystem, the diversity of amenities, the quality of room product, the quality of experiences. And so when you're down 20% of your inventory, there will be a meaningful impact into your productivity, because we carry the expense base, right? Our second largest expense is payroll, and that doesn't change. And so we had less inventory to sell in the quarter. There wasn't disruption, there was just less inventory. So, you know, credit to the team for creating the quarter that they did in this market, given the competitive dynamics. But I think now that we start to get these rooms back across the quarter, these 2000 rooms, think about it, it's two thirds of a Venetian. you know when you think about the productivity of the venetian resort the venetian macau and the room count that it has and the number of tables and the scale that it has imagine if two-thirds of the rooms were not available and that's the case with the london and so they were able to create this performance uh without that inventory the good news is it's coming online some of it's online now and the rest of it should be online by may as we mentioned in our opening remarks and that should position us well to get to our ultimate goal which is to have property that have an equivalent run rate and maybe one day the londoner does better than the venetian because of the key count but i think the opportunity is there for the productivity to really increase now that the rooms are becoming available and now that we've completed this renovation which in our mind creates one of the best properties in the history of our business and we're not just saying that because we did it we think it's really good so i think from our standpoint we have the venetian we have the londoner we have the four seasons we have the parisian we have this high quality portfolio and getting these rooms back online will enhance our our competitive positioning, but also allow us to grow cash flow and EBITDA because we're carrying the expense anyway, and now we'll have the inventory to sell. So I think it was pretty meaningful, but I do want to give credit to the team there for the quarter they put up. Grant, do you have any comments?
Yeah, Patrick. Like you said, room inventory was at the low point during the fourth quarter. Like we said last quarter, it reached the lowest point around 8,700 keys in November and December and for the whole quarter we we continue to have to 315 Londoner Grand Suites and then shortly after the year-end we got licensed for further 700 suites and keys and so for this Lunar New Year we have at our disposal just over a thousand keys to use we expect that the continue ramp up in rooms to continue throughout the first quarter and the first part of the second quarter yeah culminating the goal is to have the full 2,405 keys for the operational by
may golden week and we believe we can achieve that construction wise we're well on track it's a matter of statutory licensing at this point thank you both and then maybe just as a quick follow-up going back to new york rob we did notice that you know new york did not include the casino licenses or the downstate casino licenses in the state budget figures. So we were just kind of curious, does this imply, you know, as it may, especially given the timing of the fiscal year, that the downstate process is slipping further, at least for, I think, the third license that many of us are very focused on here for LDS? Thanks.
Hard to say. I can expect that you are, but I don't know if you're right or wrong. I think it wasn't a budget. It wasn't a budget. I don't know the answer to that, Sean, to be honest with you. It's hard to determine. I keep hearing it's going to be this June with the determination of a license by year end. But again, as you're saying, it's hard to know because they haven't been clear about this in a long time. I have to wait and see with you.
No, no. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question will be from Brandt Montour from Barclays. Brandt, your line is live.
Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question, everybody. So a follow-up on Sean's question on the Londoner. In the Pacifica casino floor, especially, which I know you opened in September, but without many hotel rooms above it, I have to imagine it was hard to activate that casino floor in the fourth quarter. Can you give us a sense on how you activate the casino floor? And if 1,000 rooms would be enough natural foot flow to actually create a buzz and get that asset almost sort of all the way up and sort of producing before you can get the last batch? Or is it specifically correlated with how many rooms are open?
I'm just laughing because the question to me is pretty simply, where you are in this year, whether it's Macau or Las Vegas or Idaho, what you have sleeping rooms above you is where you get gambling below you. So it correlates to more rooms, the more gambling. 1,000 keys is still a lot of people. I think, yes, it can create a buzz, but that buzz will obviously increase as you have more keys. So 2,000 is better and 2,400 is better than that. I'm not sure it's better than having 300. But, again, to your point, it begins with only 300 this quarter and goes to 1,000 during mood in the year. And eventually gets this spring to 2,400, I believe. And then, of course, the bathrooms are adjacent to it on the same roof in the other face of London. Plenty of rooms there, more than most hotels have in any place else. So I think the results will speak to themselves. This has been a long, hard process for the team over there, but it's probably coming to a head. And we believe and will always believe that assets drive results. This asset is extraordinary. And, yes, we'll see some buzz in February, March. You'll see it more in May. But really, it's a long haul, and London will be a world-class asset and take its place alongside some of the legendary performers, just like Maria Bessana did and Nivision did.
Okay, that's super helpful. And then a follow-up question would be on the Thailand opportunity. I know it's really early, but I'm sure you guys have done plenty of work so far on that market. And maybe you could just talk high level about that opportunity versus your large coming second build out investment in Singapore and sort of how you think about those two markets vis-a-vis each other. And if they sort of are totally separate opportunities that wouldn't have to be considered in relation to each other.
So a couple of things here. So I think, first off, Thailand is an unbelievable tourism destination. It has very desirable attributes, great culture, great food, you know, just beautiful scenery. It's a great place to visit. And I think it has a great opportunity to add destination resorts and create a very large-scale industry there. The great news is there's an enormous tourism base there already, and it's separate and distinct from people who go to Singapore. Is there overlap? Sure. Do people go back and forth between Bangkok and Singapore all the time? Absolutely. is there an argument that it actually just strengthens our ecosystem because people have more choice within our environment? There's an argument for that. Although I would say that I think they're both different offerings. I think if you look at what we have in Singapore, it's specifically tied to the highest level of high value tourism. It's rarefied air when you look who's in that environment and the type of consumption that's there, the type of both business and leisure tourism that takes place. I think in Thailand, it's a completely separate market i think there will be some overlap inevitably because people are going to want to see it on both sides but as a practical matter given the population base the visitation they have today and where people are coming from in terms of inbound tourism it's a separate and distinct opportunity and that's how we see it and we're excited about it but there's a lot that has to be done a lot that has to be learned before something that we can evaluate that being said uh it would be great for our industry to be fair great for lvs if it's possible can i just say if you have a funny thing about your comment about the mix of those two markets.
Think about this for a second. There's about 4 billion Asian people, which I think is about 3.5 billion more in the entire United States. As I look out the window here in Las Vegas, there's more casinos in Las Vegas than there is in all of Asia. Okay, so my point is there's an awful lot of people in Asia, high propensity to gamble. I wouldn't worry too much about Singapore doing very, very well. There's just not enough capacity. Shell Niles used to say he'd like to build a strip in every Asian country if possible. The point being, we'll do very well on the Singapore for years and years to come. We'll make all kinds of money there. But Thailand is an extraordinary market, and it will do very well. Again, Las Vegas must have, I don't know, 200 casinos. There's not 200 casinos in all of Asia. So the concern about it categorizing, I think, is not necessarily even valid to think about. 4 billion people in Asia looking for a place to go. Tiling will do very, very well, but so will Singapore and so will account.
Excellent. Thanks, Patrick. Thanks, Rob.
Operator
Thank you. The next question will be from Dan Pulitzer from Wells Fargo. Dan, your line is live.
Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. First, I want to touch on Venetian. Last couple quarters, it looks like mass volumes have slowed a bit there. Can you maybe talk about a little bit of what's going on with that property relative to some of your other properties in the market? And also, I think the arena recently opened there. So, you know, any kind of incremental details on how that's been trending?
One thing I do want to mention, I think the Venetian really is, for us, the benchmark in Macau. And we're very focused on growing revenues in the Venetian and maintaining margin there and generating a lot of cash flow. And we think it has the capacity to do it. In the first half of the quarter, things were going great and things were accelerating. In the second half of the quarter, there was some disruption in visitation because of what I mentioned earlier on in the prepared remarks, which is the 25th anniversary of the handover. And so there were a lot of things going on in this quarter, and one of the things that went on is that base mass was impacted most meaningfully by that event and by that 30-day period. And so I would not necessarily look at this quarter as representative of the base mass run rate associated with the Venetian going forward. Grant, I don't know if you have anything else to add.
Yeah, that's right. And I think with the premium mass, I think the business continues to be very strong there. Also, I think you have to consider that most of the lodges in Venetian, together with the Four Seasons, it plays as a complex. for that segment so you can see how strong the four seasons plaza was uh in the non-rolling segment this quarter up 26 against prior year so i think you should look at it in a composite as patrons move around between the two properties but the base mass as patrick said was was affected during the quarter we had a very strong first half of the quarter and then it softened thereafter after. As it regards to the Venetian arena, we launched a fully upgraded arena in late November. We've had a few events, some of them more like a warm-up event during fourth quarter. We had concerts and then we also hosted the NBA Legends game that accompanied our announcement of the strategic collaboration with the NBA over the next few years. So the facility gives us, I think, very strong scope to program content for our calendar uh entertainment sporting events mice groups um and at the same time we'll continue to use the london arena and really this is another example of um the scale advantage and and the product diversity that we have uh we've learned how to program the london arena successfully uh we'll be hosting some major concerts in the venetian Arena, as well as the NBA games in October in 2025. So we'll have the full flexibility and benefit of having these two great venues for different types of programming and events. And we believe that it's going to support the growth of the business in 2025 and beyond.
Go ahead. That's helpful, Collar. And then just a follow-up. I think for the Londoner all-in, you'll have invested around $8 billion. How do you think about, I guess, the return on this, you know, is this consistent with some of your other properties in the mid-19s? And if not, you know, why would that be? And then how do you think about the timing in terms of the ramp? And do you need to see that base mass business come back into the market, given that you've certainly invested in making this property a more premium mass centric?
Yeah, so I think the key thing here to note is, depends on how long your IRR measurement period is. And so I think for us, when we first opened the property, it had a ramp-up period where if you sort of looked at it at peak, it was at, I think, a billion one run rate of EBITDA. And so if you sort of drew your trend line off that, it would be an unbelievable investment. Then events overtook that measurement and we realized we needed to reinvest or reposition, which we did. So if you think of this as a 30-year asset, which we do, and you look at the potential cash flow generation out of this asset, given its positioning, its theming, its amenities, and its structure, which is not replicatable anymore in Macau, we feel like this is a very high return potential asset. And that's why we put the capital into it. If you look at its structure, you look at the room counts, you look at the organization of the casino floors, of the retail, and of the amenities around it to support the activity of our patrons, there's nothing like it, right? And so we feel like this asset will provide very high returns over time. Otherwise, we would have done it. If the model didn't work, it wouldn't have happened. But I think it depends on how you view the market and how long you view the asset to be running in this way. But we've done the major structural lift. So we think we're in good shape to carry this asset forward for years to come.
Dan, one additional comment to Patrick's. I think you made a comment that's opinion mass centric. I would disagree. It's market segment is open to everything. What makes these buildings so powerful, like the Londoner innovation successful buildings in the world get everybody they get the base mass the grind the pre-mass because they have all kinds of capacity they've got sleeping rooms they've got retail they've got entertainment and they've got just capacity what makes it special versus some competitors they can't they don't have that scale capacity lodging and gaming this london thing better have it on all segments to get the numbers i want to see you get to which is far beyond a billion dollars. And I think the answer is, I think Patrick said, well, it's a time issue in how you view the market. How we not fix the Londoner, it wouldn't be competitive. The old San Francisco Tysential couldn't withstand the pressure of this market. Londoner will now do well, do very well. It'll do well with not just premium masks, but base masks, everything. It's going to dominate just like the East. The Eastman didn't get there simply with high robots. You walk in there, there's poker, there's base masks, there's all kinds of lodging, all kinds of retail, all kinds of food and beverage. That's how we model the lung, and that's why it's going to be a billion-plus dollar building when it gets void operation.
Got it. Thanks so much. That's really helpful. Sure. Thanks, Dan.
Operator
Thank you. The next question will be from Chad Banon from Macquarie. Chad, your line is live.
Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Rob, you mentioned your prepared remarks that there was a decline in the turnover rent. It looks like I believe pretty much all of that may have been at the Four Seasons. The other properties in Macau and in Singapore had some nice increases year over year. So firstly, just kind of wanted to ask about that, if that was, you know, something related to maybe some VIP business that was there last year, anything structural on the property. And then secondly, I know the market and everyone are expecting, you know, visitation and GGR to be up next year. Is there anything in the model that would, you know, put a lid in terms of what's happening with retail, given where the base is right now?
Yeah, I'm going to defer to Grant Shum, who should answer this question. Grant?
Yeah, thanks, Rob. Yes, the turn of a rent change is largely related to the Four Seasons Mall. Last year, or I should say 2023, that was a record year. That was an all-time high for the Four Seasons Mall in terms of retail sales. coming out of that post-COVID spend. So when you look at year-on-year comparison, 24 against 23, the turnover rent is heavily impacted by the sales at the four seasons being down year-on-year. And there's nothing structural. There's nothing one-off about the 23. I think it's just the way the sales evolved straight after the pandemic and, of course, the softening macro environment thereafter. I think we're strategically very well positioned for the retail sector over the next 18, 24 months. We are opening a number of very significant flagship stores across a number of the major brands. You've seen the first of these opening in November in four seasons with the Audemars Piguet AP House, the largest in Asia. That will continue in 2025 with some other major flagships or openings. So we feel that between now and end of 2025, you're going to see a further strengthening in the tenant mix and the product offering and the more natural recovery in the macro and the retail sales that will come with it.
Great. Thank you very much. And then back to the U.S., I know we talked about a few potential legislation positives or opportunities. Anything change in terms of your view on Texas, the timing of that, and kind of where things stand down there?
So, as we said before, we think Texas has a great potential as a market for our business, but there's really nothing to report at this point. The session just began, and we'll see how it goes.
Great. Thank you very much. Thanks, Chad.
Operator
Thank you. The next question will be from Joe Stout from SIG. Joe, your line is live.
Thank you. Good afternoon, Rob, Patrick, Grant. I had two questions on MBS, please. One, you know, where are you seeing, say, the biggest early returns from your investments thus far? I'm wondering if it's more heavily weighted towards a particular metric, you know, longer stays, new customers, higher spend. And then my second question really is, on a longer-term basis for MBS, you know, for the three towers, as we think about the ramp in EBITDA, Patrick, you had mentioned Singapore certainly is rarefied air, but could you comment on, you know, longer-term what these new investments and where you think the biggest opportunity is? for you to ramp EBITDA?
I really appreciate the question. I think for us, Marina Bay Sands, customer base, is very diverse, diverse markets around Singapore who all want to do business in Singapore or all want to go there for leisure purposes. And the spending habits are very powerful. And I think the biggest growth that you'll see as you sort of look across our business, it's in every facet. credit to the team there. They've done phenomenal work this quarter in utilizing the assets that were put into production, and they still don't have everything in inventory. And so I think the key thing here is if you sort of look at our gaming growth, it's been fantastic, particularly on the non-rolling side, absolutely phenomenal in both segments in terms of slots and tables, but also on a rolling basis, it's been very strong. I think the other thing is if you look at the non-gaming side, it's been extraordinary. If you look at the across the board, things have performed incredibly well. We just had a question about retail in Macau. But if you look at the retail in Singapore, it's performed incredibly well and shown to be very resilient. So I think the offering there is quite strong, addresses the market properly. And I can't really point to one thing to say that it's the way to measure the investment. I think it's a very holistic approach. Rob earlier mentioned that we address all segments. I think in Singapore, the market is filled with high-value tourists, and we really address with a variety of amenities something that's very unique. And that experience in our ecosystem is not replicatable. And so I think we get the benefit of that. And I think you see the results in our EBITDA this quarter. And I think there's more to come. And I think when we get the rest of Tower 3 online and we get some of the other investments fully in, the room is completely done. I think you'll see the power of this building as people start to figure it out.
I think that building, have you been there? Have you seen that building? Joe is there with us. Okay. If you've been in the building and you see it, there's just nothing like it. If you're at the center of affluence, it's got the room product, it's got the sweet vibe, the food and beverage, it's got it all. I think for people who can afford the experience and want to gamble, which is a lot of people in Asia, it's just a very unique product. It's going to capture all those people. It's also got a wonderful place to be, which is Singapore itself. So I think we're in the right place, right time to keep growing that. And we measure, obviously, the profitability and the profitability of soaring. But I think the best is yet to come. I mean, Singapore is just the beginning of its run. As Patrick alluded to, the quality of asset and the finishes, et cetera, are extraordinary, and it's hard to replicate. So I think we have every confidence we're just at the beginning of this thing, not the end. It's not aberrational. It's just the way it's going to be. Singapore is an exceptional asset, a very strong market. Lots of countries driving it. And also, it's the beneficiary of lots of great publicity and awareness of how people talk MBS. They see it on newspapers, magazines, the Internet. It's very powerful. It's got a real brand to it. So I think you're at the beginning of an exceptional growth story in Singapore. As the asset ventures this summer, again, I think the future is very, very strong.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. The next question will be from George Troy from Citigroup. George, your line is live.
Oh, thanks for taking a question. First of all, we noticed the introduction of some new background cyber since late September in Macau, and would you please comment on how popular they have become, and it's a potential impact on whole race longer term. And I have a follow-up to this.
George, I've got to tell you, they're very popular with me. I think they're great. Unfortunately, you didn't bet that much.
George, I think you know the story. I appreciate the question. It's a very, very powerful possibility. It's not a reality yet, but the side bets, as you know, are akin to parlay events or wages on the sports betting. It's more of a prop bet, more of a long shot type bet, which people gravitate to. Some people like it. You know the house advantage is much higher than the flat bet, the usual fan player type pair. So for the industry, we're at the forefront of this. We want to offer those bets, and hopefully the customers will come towards them. It's got great potential. It's early days yet. But as you know, this block run is our primary business. It can be very, very powerful in the years to come. yet the customers decide to take, you know, higher long rod type bets because they do benefit the house, no surprise. There's an article recently, I think it was a journal about sports betting and parlay betting, it's akin to that. So we're hopeful that more people will partake in that, it helps drive the curve, and it'd be very advantageous for those companies who are Baccarat-centric like Las Vegas Saints.
And just to sort of encourage some thought, yeah, I think the key thing here is it's early days yet, And so I think our goal is to continue to evaluate how the market is adapting and actually choosing to utilize those bets. But we'll see.
Thank you very much. And obviously, very encouraging to learn that you have 700 more suites at the Londoner Grand open after the year end. I'm just wondering if you have opened any new premium mass capacity at the Londoner Grand.
Yes, we did. We just opened, yeah, just around the time of the Lunar New Year, we opened a new Premium Mass Salon on Level 1 of Londoner Grant. So we're obviously ramping up on the gaming side in sync with the room inventory.
Thanks for your comments. Thanks, George, as always. Appreciate it.
Operator
Thank you. And the next question will be from Steve Wojcinski from Stifo. Steve, your line is live.
Yeah, hey, guys. Good afternoon. So Patrick or Rob or maybe even Grant, if we go back to the Lundger, you know, obviously you have that coming back online over the next couple of months. And obviously your competitors in the market know, you know, that property is coming back online as well. So, you know, the question is, have you seen any changes in the promotional activity, you know, from your competitors in the market in anticipation of, you know, that property coming back online?
You know, I think first off, you know, I think we mentioned this in the prior quarter's call. Macau has always been incredibly competitive and very promotional. And I think to the team's credit there, they've been very disciplined. You know, when we closed the P6 casino, there was some promoing there to move people around. And we talked about that. But I think it's a practical matter. We're very focused on leveraging the assets that we invest in for the long term to drive customer visitation and patron experience. And I think for us, the goal is to be disciplined in the face of this market, which, by the way, is ever evolving. If you go back more than a decade, there were different segments that are in favor, different ways that people thought about those segments and invested against the opportunity. And I think that's what we have today. I think we have a very competitive market, as we've always had. I think people are investing against the segments the way they think that will create the most profit for them. And I think for us, we're doing the same thing, but our model has been pretty consistent, which is about investment in product, investment in a great team, great service levels, and focusing on the way that we can drive margin and cash flow. Grant, do you have any other comments you'd like to add?
I think you said it well. I think we remain focused on EBITDA generation and the profit share. And if you look at the third quarter results, when all the results came out from all of the operators i think those who gained revenue share didn't necessarily see that translate into profit share gain um and i think we we continue with our strategy i think it remains competitive regardless of whether we're bringing london or grand suites online or not um i don't think that that changes i think that's a constant um and so our constant is that yeah we our strategy remains. Leveraging our core products, leveraging the quality and scale of what we have. And the grand is the perfect opportunity for us to really drive home that strategy. And we really look forward to having the full inventory in place into the summer and that really deliver for us.
Okay. Thanks for that, guys. And then real quick, Patrick, you obviously brought up the president's visit in December. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do this or not, But just just wondering if you guys have some sort of, you know, estimate, you know, what the potential impact, you know, from his visit was on your on your properties, you know, during that time frame.
You know, unfortunately, I really can't give you an estimate. All I can tell you is that there was a noticeable change. But the important thing is that we're looking forward to a great 25. We're excited about the opportunity. We feel really good about our assets, our position. we have a great team, we have great service levels, and we're excited about what we can do now that we're finally getting all of our assets back in inventory. We're looking forward to it.
Okay. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
Operator
Thank you. If there were no other questions at this time, thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.
