Good afternoon, and welcome to PennyMac Financial Services, Inc.'s third quarter 2025 earnings call. Additional earnings materials, including presentation slides that will be referred to on this call, are available on PennyMac Financial's website at pfsi.pennymac.com. Before we begin, let me remind you that this call may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to certain risks identified on slide two of the earnings presentation that could cause the company's actual results to differ materially, as well as non-GAAP measures that have been reconciled to their GAAP equivalent in the earnings materials. Now I'd like to introduce David Spector, PennyMac Financial's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Dan Parati, PennyMac Financial's Chief Financial Officer. You may go ahead.

Thank you, Operator. Good afternoon, and thank you to everyone for participating in our third quarter earnings call. As shown on slide three, DFSI delivered outstanding financial and operational results in the third quarter, with an 18% return on equity on both a GAAP and operating basis. These results highlight the strategic advantage of our balanced business model, our ability to rapidly address refinance opportunities as they arise, and the success of our dynamic hedging program, which offset MSR fair value declines, thereby demonstrating the financial stability that is central to our operating model. As you can see on slide five, our consistent performance demonstrates the strength of our organic and comprehensive mortgage banking platform. The chart on the left shows our annualized operating ROEs in recent quarters. The 20% operating return on equity we earned in the third quarter of 2024 was achieved when mortgage rates declined to approximately 6%. Similarly, this quarter we achieved an 18% operating return on equity as mortgage rates moved closer to that level. These two quarters illustrate the earnings power of our business. A key benefit of our balanced business model has been the consistent strength of our servicing business. As you can see from the chart on the right, servicing pre-tax net evaluation-related changes has provided the majority of our mortgage banking operating pre-tax income over the last several quarters. While there can be some fluctuations in our results due to typical seasonality, if mortgage rates remain between 6% and 6.5% while delinquency rates remain stable, we expect annualized operating returns on equity to average in the high teens to low 20s through 2026, with potential for additional upside if origination market volumes grow further. I would like to bring your attention to the recently announced strategic transaction we completed this quarter that highlights our active capital management. As you can see on slide six, we successfully completed a sale of MSRs with an unpaid principal balance of $12 billion to Annaly Capital Management with subservicing retained, accelerating the growth of our capital-like subservicing business. This transaction allowed us to monetize a mature asset with a weighted average coupon of 3.1% and projected go-forward returns at the lower end of our target range, freeing up capital to deploy into new, higher coupon MSRs with greater recapture and return potential. Importantly, we retained the core elements that drive the growth of our mortgage flywheel, The subservicing, recapture, and marketing rights for closed-end seconds and other products, preserving our customers' ongoing relationship with PennyMac. This transaction is a testament to our ongoing drive to grow capital-like revenue streams that leverage our servicing expertise, operational scale, and proprietary technology. It also reinforces our best-in-class servicing capabilities and signals our intent to be a dominant subservicer in the market. We view this transaction as a part of our disciplined effort to optimize our balance sheet and enhance long-term value for both our customers and stockholders, a win for all parties. Turning to production, our results this quarter reflect the strength of our unique multi-channel production platform. On slide 7, we proudly showcased our position as the outright leader in correspondent lending. Over the last 12 months, we have generated more than $100 billion in UPB of correspondent production, achieving an estimated market share of approximately 20% in the first nine months of 2025. This significant volume is a direct result of our operational excellence, technology innovation and deep partnerships with many of our nearly 800 active correspondent sellers across the country. A key aspect of our leadership in this channel is our exceptional operational leverage and scale, which underscores our fundamental strength as a highly efficient, low-cost provider with a significant competitive advantage. Similarly, you can see on slide eight that our broker-direct business was a key contributor this quarter and represents a significant ongoing opportunity. From our entry into this business in 2018, our broker-direct market share has expanded significantly, currently standing at just under 6%. We have clearly established ourselves as a trusted partner for brokers, and though we are already the third largest in the channel, we see tremendous momentum to continue our growth to more than 10% market share by the end of 2026. Our strength in this channel is driven by our tech-enabled platform with unmatched support throughout the origination process. This advanced infrastructure and dedicated assistance assures brokers that their customers will experience a seamless and efficient origination process, empowering brokers and reinforcing their trust in us as a reliable, long-term partner. On slide nine, we highlight the significant opportunity for our consumer direct channel as mortgage rates decline. As a reminder, our operating ROE this quarter was 18%, and a substantial portion of the increase versus the prior quarter can be directly attributed to the success of our recapture activities. Our performance this quarter is a powerful real-time indicator that our current investments and strategy are working, and it highlights the opportunity for us in future periods as market rates decline. As of September 30th, $291 billion in UPB, or 41% of the loans in our servicing portfolio, have a note rate above 5%, and $201 billion in UPB, or 28% of the loans in our portfolio have a note rate above 6%. This large and growing portfolio of borrowers who recently entered into mortgages at higher rates stands to significantly benefit by refinancing their loan when interest rates decline. As this refinancial potential positions our consumer direct lending divisions for stronger future growth. Our multi-year investments in technology and process innovation, including the introduction of our new loan origination system, have already driven meaningful improvements in both our overall efficiency and recapture. We expect our recapture rates to continue improving, translating directly into higher earnings potential as refinance opportunities materialize. In conclusion, our strong quarterly results reflect our ability to rapidly address refinance demand when rates decline and the increase in sophistication introduced into the hedging of our MSRs, which demonstrate the robust financial stability and risk management that underpins our system. I am extraordinarily proud of the work and effort provided by the management team in producing these strong quarterly results, defined by outstanding execution in both production and servicing, and, of course, an 18% gap in operating return on equity. Looking ahead, as we continue deploying AI throughout the organization, I am confident that our strategic positioning and our relentless focus on efficiency ensures we are well-equipped to drive substantial growth, superior returns, and a continued upward trajectory for PennyMap. I will now turn it over to Dan, who will review the drivers of PFSI's third quarter financial performance.

Thank you, David. PFSI reported net income of $182 million in the third quarter, or $3.37 in earnings per share, for an annualized ROE of 18%. These results included $4 million of fair value declines on MSR's net of hedges and costs. The contribution from these items to diluted earnings per share was negative six cents. PFSI's Board of Directors declared a third quarter common share dividend of 30 cents per share. On slides 12 and 13, beginning with our production segment, pre-tax income was $123 million, more than twice the $58 million reported in the prior quarter. Total acquisition and origination volumes were $36 billion in unpaid principal balance, down 4% from the prior quarter. Of this, $33 billion was for PFSI's own account, and $3 billion was fee-based fulfillment activity for PMT. Total lock volumes were $43 billion in UPB, essentially unchanged from the prior quarter, but with a greater mix of volume coming from our direct lending channels. PennyMac maintained its dominant position in correspondent lending in the third quarter, with total acquisitions of $28 billion, down 7% from the prior quarter. Correspondent channel margins in the third quarter were 30 basis points, up from 25 basis points in the second quarter, with a revenue contribution unchanged from the prior quarter, and displaying our margin discipline, driving slightly higher revenue on reduced volume. PMT retains the right to purchase up to 100% of non-government correspondent loan production from PFSI's correspondent production volumes. PMT purchased 17% of PFSI's total conventional conforming correspondent production, essentially unchanged from the percentage PMT retained in the prior quarter. In the fourth quarter, we expect PMT to purchase approximately 15% to 25% of PFSI's total conventional conforming correspondent production, consistent with levels in recent quarters. In BrokerDirect, we continue to see strong trends in growth in market share, as we position PennyMac as a strong alternative to channel leaders. Originations in the channel were up 6% and locks were up 11% from the prior quarter, driven by a growing number of approved brokers who are increasingly recognizing and leveraging our distinct value proposition. The number of brokers approved to do business with us at quarter end was nearly 5,200, up 17% from the same time last year. In Broker Direct, we saw a revenue contribution $10 million higher than the prior quarter, driven by increased volumes and margins. As David mentioned, Consumer Direct saw positive trends with origination volumes up 12% and locked volumes of 57 percent from the prior quarter, as rates declined late in the third quarter. Revenue contribution from the channel increased by $29 million from the prior quarter, primarily driven by increased refinance volume. Margins were down, driven by a higher proportion of higher-balanced first-lean refinance loans versus smaller-balanced second-lean loans. Although the refinances have lower margins on a basis point basis, revenue per loan is typically greater. PFSI account revenues benefited from a positive contribution from post-lock items such as non-agency and specified pool spreads, spread improvement, which contributed $30 million in the third quarter compared to a loss of $10 million in the prior quarter. Activity across our channels in October has been strong, with increased activity across all three channels compared to what we reported for the third quarter, with the most substantial increase in the consumer direct channel. Production expenses net of loan origination expense increased 11% from the prior quarter. The increase from the prior quarter was due to both higher volumes and additional capacity in our direct lending channels, which is expected to drive our ability to rapidly address opportunities presented by lower mortgage rates. Turning to servicing on slides 14 and 15, as David mentioned, our servicing portfolio continues to grow, ending the quarter at $717 billion in unpaid principal balance. The servicing segment recorded pre-tax income of $158 million, nearly three times that of the prior quarter. Excluding valuation-related changes, pre-tax income was $162 million, or 9.1 basis points of average servicing portfolio UPB, up from $144 million, or 8.3 basis points in the prior Loan servicing fees were up from the prior quarter, primarily due to growth in PFSI's MSR portfolio. Custodial funds managed for PFSI's own portfolio averaged $8.5 billion in the third quarter, up from $7.5 billion in the second quarter due to seasonal impacts and higher prepayments. As a result, earnings on custodial balances and deposits and other income increased. Realization of MSR cash flows increased from the prior quarter due to continued growth of the MSR asset and higher realized and projected prepayment activity due to lower mortgage rates. Operating expenses were $85 million for the quarter, or 4.8 basis points of average servicing portfolio UPV up slightly from the prior quarter. As David mentioned, we saw the operating ROE and GAAP ROE converge this quarter with strong hedge results that offset the vast majority of MSR fair value declines. These results were a direct result of adjustments made to our hedging practices at the beginning of the quarter, more directly incorporating recapture expectations into our hedge management and thereby reducing our reliance on more expensive option positions. This, in turn, allows us to be more measured in our approach to rebalancing our hedge positions. In addition, the environment for hedging has also improved, with volatility declining, improving option pricing, and short-term interest rates expected to decline in comparison to longer-term interest rates, improving the carry of our hedge positions. As a result of our hedging practice adjustments and these improving market factors, going forward, we expect hedge costs to remain contained, and we expect to realize results closer to our targeted hedge ratio, which is currently around 85 to 90 percent. During the third quarter, the fair value of PFSI's MSR decreased by $102 million. $94 million was due to changes in market interest rates, and $9 million was due to other assumption and performance-related impacts. Excluding costs, hedge fair value gains were $102 million. Hedge costs were $4 million, down significantly from $54 million in the second quarter. Corporate and other items contributed a pre-tax loss of $44 million, up from $35 million in the prior quarter, primarily driven by expenses related to technology initiatives and increased performance-based incentive compensation. DFSI recorded a tax expense of $55 million, resulting in an effective tax rate of 23.2%. We were also active in the management of our financing in the third quarter. In August, we successfully issued $650 million of unsecured senior notes due in 2034, furthering our objective of increasing the proportion of long-term unsecured financing in our non-funding debt. Additionally, we issued $300 million of Ginnie May MSR term notes due in August 2030 and paid off $200 million of the $680 million notes due in February 2028, meaningfully improving our financing costs on the secured debt. Total debt to equity at the end of the quarter was 3.3 times, and non-funding debt to equity at the end of the quarter was 1.5 times, both down slightly from the end of last quarter as we consistently managed to our target leverage levels. We ended the quarter with nearly $5 billion of total liquidity, which includes cash and amounts available to draw on facilities where we have collateral pledged, giving us significant liquidity resources to be able to deploy opportunistically or in adverse market circumstances. We'll now open it up for questions. Operator?

Thank you. I would like to remind everyone, we will only take questions related to PennyMac Financial Services, Inc., or PFSI. We also ask that you please keep your questions limited to one preliminary question and one follow-up question, as we'd like to ensure we can answer as many questions as possible. If you would like to ask a question during this time, please raise your hand. If you have dialed in to today's call, please press star followed by the number 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute. And if you'd like to withdraw your question, it's star 9. Your first question comes from the line of Crispin Love with Piper Sandler. You may now go ahead.

Thank you. I appreciate taking my question. First on operating ROEs, definitely saw a nice bounce back in the quarter to 18%. I appreciate your high teens to low 20s ROE guide through 2026, but just given the mortgage rate rally late in the quarter, in the September timeframe and the lag in correspondent, would you expect the fourth quarter ROEs to be more towards that low 20s range, just given where rates stand today?

Overall, so there's a couple of factors in the, you know, in the fourth quarter specifically. So we do, we have had a rally recently. We've obviously seen an uptick in volumes. If we stay here, you know, that could well drive up our, you know, our volumes and our ROEs to the higher end of, or operating ROEs to the higher end of that range. You know, offsetting that typically in the fourth quarter with seasonality, with respect to purchase, et cetera, you know, you can see a bit of, you know, a bit of a lag there, as well as with custodial balances on our servicing portfolio. So, you know, with the fourth quarter, those tend to be a little bit lower from a seasonal perspective. So overall, if we stay at these rate levels, that probably pushes our operating ROE, you know, higher to the higher teens to, as you said, low 20s. But, you know, we do expect some of those typical effects as we're here in the fourth quarter.

Absolutely. That makes sense. And then just with the government shutdown, can you discuss the implications and expected impact of PFSI to the FHA business, as well as other areas, just what that has meant for you in October, and then what you could expect in the fourth quarter if the shutdown continues?

Yeah, so we, you know, we are always prepared for a range of outcomes in the company, and we've been through this drill a few times. We are, you know, it starts with how we think about having enough commitment authority with Ginnie Mae to be able to continue to issue Ginnie Mae securities. And we always look out to make sure we have at least nine months of commitment authority. On the delinquency side, you know, where, you know, you could see this start to show up. You know, we have, you know, we have a couple thousand borrowers in forbearance as a result of the government shutdown. We've received, you know, two to two and a half times that number of calls coming from the government shutdown. But I'm not expecting anything substantive. And I think it's, you know, suffice it to say that, you know, our technology and what we built allows us to be able to adapt to something to whether it's a government shutdown or a natural disaster, which there haven't been really any this year, to something even as extreme as COVID. And so the team is always, you know, ready to be able to adapt to whatever comes its way.

Great. Thank you, David and Dan. I appreciate you taking my questions. Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Bose George with KBW. Your line is unmuted. You may

go ahead. Hey guys, can you hear? Yeah, hey guys. Actually, the first question, can you you talk about the trend in rate box in the fourth quarter? I know it's only been a couple of weeks, but how does that compare to the third quarter? Sure. So, so far in the fourth quarter,

we've seen an uptick in volumes really across all of our channels, in particular, our direct lending and consumer direct lending. Given the lower rates, we've seen a significant amount of refinance volume coming in. And so overall, as you mentioned, it's only a couple of weeks in and things can change, but the trajectory very positive thus far. And, you know, to the earlier

point, you know, as you see some of the August and September locks in the industry fund out, you should see an increase in bulk production and correspondence. And so, you know, I think, you know, to the point Dan raised, you know, we're seeing a nice little uptake in consumer direct, and it's just really a function of rates, which, you know, have come down even over the last week.

Okay, great. That makes sense. And then just in terms of the margins, can you just talk about the margins, you know, just the different channels? The consumer direct was down, but was that really kind of a mix issue or, you know, just color on that, and then it was up in the other channels, so just some color on trends there

Exactly. So as you mentioned, as I talked about a bit in my remarks, in consumer directs, it's really the mix of products. So on a basis point basis, the second lien loans tend to be higher and refinances tend to be lower, but first lien refinances are higher loan sizes generally. And so on a revenue per loan basis, you know, we actually see higher revenues per loan despite lower, you know, lower basis points, basis points per UPB for those loans. And so, you know, we've seen those fluctuations in the past, but really as rates declined, it's a indicative of greater refinances, which generally is more profitable activity in the consumer direct channel on a, you know, per loan basis. The, as you mentioned, both correspondent broker saw margins go up. With respect to correspondent, really around margin discipline, you can see that, you know, our margins increased and volumes, you know, volumes declined a bit. but we made, you know, slightly or had slightly greater revenues in the correspondent channel than in the prior quarter. And so that's really indicative of our margin discipline in that channel. And with broker, you know, continues to be a positive environment. We continue to gain share and gain momentum in that channel. Okay, great. Thanks. Your next question

comes from the line of Douglas Harder with UBS. Douglas, your line is now open. You may go ahead.

You guys repurchased some shares in the quarter. Can you just talk about your appetites to continue to do that, you know, and how the, you know, the MSR sale to Analy might factor into

that? Sure. So with respect to all of our capital deployments, and I think, you know, both of those items are indicative of our more active stance towards allocation of capital in TFSI. With respect to the share repurchases, we really look at that as the opportunity for doing that versus what we see as other opportunities for deployment of capital as shares got down, in terms of the pricing of our shares got down to a level where we saw that return as being attractive to our other, as compared to our other opportunities. You know, we did enter into the market. Obviously, the prices have changed somewhat since then. And we do believe that as we have in the past, we have very attractive opportunities in terms of deploying capital into higher rate MSRs with really excellent recapture potential, which is evidencing itself as we're going lower in rates currently. But when we see that opportunity, we've shown our willingness and ability in the past to be in the market repurchasing shares, and that will continue to be on our menu of capital allocation items to the extent that we see those opportunities. With respect to the Annalee transaction, really they're looking more toward allocating the capital that we raised from that more toward, again, those opportunities to bring on additional high note rate servicing with opportunities for recapture and believe that the returns from the go forward returns from that Annalee transaction were at the lower end of our, you know, targeted range, being able to deploy into higher note rate servicing with much greater, you know, recapture potential and reallocate that capital is a positive benefit for PFSI.

You know, Doug, the two other things I'd add to that is that as we see the growth in broker, the, you know, the capital needs to support that growth are going to grow, and we can be put on higher rate MSRs and continue to support that initiative. While at the same time, you know, we saw a slight tick down in our non-funding debt to equity. It was down slightly from 1.6 times to 1.5 times. And keeping it at that 1.5 times is important to us, and especially as we're talking to key constituents like the rating agencies, I think that's something that, you know, that, you know, we're keeping in mind as well. So all in all, a great quarter in terms of, you know, recycling out of lower returning investments to set ourselves up to redeploy in a higher

returning investments. And Dan, you mentioned the tax rate, you know, it was down a couple hundred basis points this quarter. You know, anything to call out there and how sustainable

is that this quarter's level? This quarter is a little bit lower than what we would expect on a go-forward basis. Some of that was driven by, you know, option executions during the quarter, which has the effect of creating a, you know, permanent tax difference, which reduces the tax rate in the quarter. So, our, you know, our overall tax rate, we expect to be, you know, over time, we expect to be, as you mentioned, you know, slightly higher, a couple hundred basis points higher um but uh it was a you know was a benefit that we did see in the quarter great

appreciate it thank you your next question comes from the line of trevor cranston with citizens jmp trevor your line is now open please go ahead can you hear me yes um so i'm curious about the um

what you guys are seeing um within the servicing portfolio on um you know as we get rate rallies i was curious if you guys are seeing you know any difference in the responsiveness of borrowers um you're sort of jumping on refi opportunities today versus kind of what your experience has been like in the past or what your models have projected um and the second part of that i was I was curious, I don't think I saw a recapture rate specifically for the third quarter, so I was wondering if you could also just comment specifically on the third quarter recapture performance.

Yeah, look, I'll let Dan go over the recapture rates, and I will tell you that, you know, my observation is, one, they were up for the quarter, and that is a byproduct of the work and effort done by Doug and Abby and Scott on the team and really honing in on perfecting recapture. And that's, and that's a by-product of technology. You know, we're already seeing really good results from the deployment of our new loan origination system, you know, upwards of a 50% reduction in time to complete a locked application. And that's allowing us to meet the demands driven into the call center by our marketing initiatives. And those marketing initiatives are really key to driving in leads to the call center. And so, it's really, you know, in and of itself, its own set of initiatives. But, you know, I'm really happy with where the recapture rates came in.

Yeah. With respect to the responsiveness, I think generally we've seen some, you know, folks come to the table, excuse me, come to the table a little bit quicker than we have historically. Just, you know, folks that have purchased homes at higher rates are excited to get into slightly lower rates. And so, you know, that's probably the responsiveness has been slightly higher than what we have seen historically. With respect to the recapture rates, they, you know, continue to improve in the third quarter, as David mentioned. I think that as we get into the fourth quarter, that's where you're going to, and some of the loans that we locked in the, you know, the third quarter, and they'll come to sort of fruition with payoffs in the fourth quarter, is where you really see the, you know, the benefits of the improved focus on

recapture. Okay, that's helpful. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Eric Hagen with BTIG. Eric, your line is open. You may now go ahead.

Hopefully I'm coming in. Lots of renewed attention here on community banks and speculation on whether some of the credit risk that we're talking about is systemic or if it's more contained. I mean, how do you think just generally that changes their appetite for originating mortgages and their relationship back to you? And when there's consolidation in the banking space, I mean, how do you think that generally impacts just the flow of credit and, you know, the opportunity that you guys have to encroach on market share?

Look, I think that it's a little early. I'll tell you that there's been consolidation going on for quite some time now in the industry. Our job is to continue to do the work that we do to make sure that our correspondent counterparts or counterparties have the right risks under control. The capital is, you know, reviewed on a regular basis. We have a robust underwriting and review process to really understand the manufacturing that goes into the loans that we buy. And so I think that that's something that, you know, gives us comfort. We just have to stay, you know, diligent and Our risk management practices are well-honed, and I believe that while you'll see consolidation, that consolidation will benefit us in the long run. And this is why it's really important that we're in all three channels, because whether it benefits us in correspondent or broker or our call center, we will be able to participate.

That's good, Collar. I appreciate that. Are there any opportunities you guys feel like to reduce servicing expenses from this point forward or, you know, reduce them kind of meaningfully over the near term? I mean, is there a target rate that you have in mind for servicing expenses and does the ROE guidance that you've given include any reductions in servicing costs?

So, yeah, we do expect servicing costs or unit servicing costs to continue to decline, you know, both through the use of our technology, implementation of some of our artificial intelligence initiatives. We think that there are places and parts of the operations where we can gain significant additional operational leverage and reduce costs to a greater, you know, to a greater degree. As we're moving into 2026 and the guidance that was reflected or the guidance that was put out did reflect, you know, additional cost savings in terms of servicing on a unit basis. And as the portfolio grows, to the extent that we can move as quickly as we want to with our technology initiatives, there could be potential additional upside there. but we do think that there's continued opportunity to be able to reduce costs in a meaningful way in the servicing sector.

We had a little slight uptick in our corporate expenses because of the investments in technology to enhance our servicing system. A lot of these initiatives are AI-related to help speed up the decline in expenses as well as look at other ways that we can use our technology in the marketplace.

Yep. Great caller. I appreciate you guys. Thanks.

Thanks, Eric.

If you would like to ask a question during this time, as a reminder, please raise your hand. And if you have dialed in to today's call, please press star followed by the number 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute. We will now take a moment to compile any further questions in the Q&A. Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Shelley with Bank of America. Ryan, your line is unmuted. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, Ryan. Ryan, as a reminder, it is star six to unmute. Hey guys, can you hear me? Now we can.

Okay, thank you. Sorry, getting into the new system here. Thanks for the question. I just just wanted to donate a bit on the broker direct channel uh especially after recent validation in this space have you guys seen any changes to competitive behavior uh whether by the player involved in that consolidation or you know players um you know not in the top two and not do you guys

um any changes to call out there no look i think i think our rapid ascent in broker direct is to me, you know, the results of the hard work and effort that the team has gone through in building technology to meet the demands and needs of the broker, as well as to be able to provide a clear alternative to the top two brokers. And I think that, you know, that's resonating with our broker partners. I think that we are the only, I know we're the only mortgage bank out there that's not distracted. And it's those distractions that the other participants are having that's allowing us to focus on meeting the needs of our broker partners as well as to grow share. And that's why I'm very confident that we're going to get to the 10% market share number by the end of 2026. And I think that you're going to continue to see growth. The nice part about the growth this quarter is you had growth in share and growth in margin, and I think that that's really important to keep in mind. It's something that, you know, we're saying, you know, the broker market, you know, really having a nice increase in that margin, and it's something that is starting to have, you know, good, meaningful impact on the results of the company, and as I said earlier, being able to participate in all three parts of the production ecosystem allows us to not focus on just one part of the origination lead system. For example, whether it's correspondent, we're just focusing on bulk, or consumer direct, just focusing on recapture of our own portfolio. By being in broker as well, we continue to have a presence with the purchase market as well as the refinance market. So it's something that I'm really bullish about. and really happy to see.

Got it. Thanks. Yeah, definitely. And then one more quick one. So I think there's this narrative out there that you'll see further consolidation in this industry. I guess, do you guys buy into that narrative? And how do you think you would fit into that? And thank you very much for the questions.

Yeah, look, I think that there's seven parts of the market where perhaps you'll see more consolidation than others. we've been we're at the end of this year we'll finish our 18th year you know most of just about everything we've done has been done organically we're an organic management team we've built our three production divisions organically we built our servicing platform organically and I don't you know foresee anything that would change that and so it's something that we are going to continue to operate. We're going to continue to grow. And while others may be focused on consolidation or other corporate activities, that allows us to continue to grow faster and allows us to do it profitably. And that's something that's really, you know, one of the great highlights of this quarter for me is just the focus on capital allocation and focusing on, you know, really deploying capital and the higher returning assets and finding assets that perhaps aren't meeting our return targets and being able to find alternatives. And that's what this management team is great at. And that's something that I want to continue to focus on.

Great, the responses. Have a good one. Thank you.

We have no further questions at this time. I'll now turn it back to David Spector for closing remarks.

Thank you, Operator. And thank you all for joining us this afternoon. We really appreciate the time and the opportunity to present the quarter and answer any questions. I encourage all of you, if you have any additional questions, to contact our investor relations team by email or phone. I look forward to speaking to all of you in the future. Thanks again.

This now concludes today's call. Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect.